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Sanders writes: "Given Mitt Romney's business record as an outsourcer and tax avoider, and his desire to continue the failed economic policies of George W. Bush, President Obama should be 20 points ahead in the polls right now, not struggling to stay even."

Senator Bernie Sanders is interviewed by a Reuters reporter, 11/28/06. (photo: Reuters)
Senator Bernie Sanders is interviewed by a Reuters reporter, 11/28/06. (photo: Reuters)


Romney's Wrong Economic Answers

By Bernie Sanders, Reader Supported News

07 September 12

 

iven Mitt Romney's business record as an outsourcer and tax avoider, and his desire to continue the failed economic policies of George W. Bush, President Obama should be 20 points ahead in the polls right now, not struggling to stay even. At a time when the wealthiest people are doing phenomenally well, Romney's plan to provide more tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires is dead wrong.

At a time when we have lost more than 56,000 factories and 5.3 million decent-paying manufacturing jobs since 2000, Romney is wrong in pushing for more unfettered free trade, which will make it easier for large corporations to throw American workers out on the street and ship American jobs to China and other low-wage countries.

At a time when millions of Americans continue to struggle through the horrendous recession caused by the greed, recklessness and illegal behavior on Wall Street, Romney is wrong to believe we need more deregulation of too-big-to fail financial institutions.

In order to win support from the American middle class, it is absolutely imperative that the president provide a strong agenda that speaks to their needs, and that makes clear he will fight to win those proposals against the right-wing extremists who now control the Republican Party. Here is some of what the president should advocate:

1) The president must make it clear to the American people that he will not cut Social Security. Social Security has not added one penny to the deficit because it is funded by the payroll tax. Social Security has a $2.7 trillion surplus and can pay out every benefit owed to every eligible American for the next 21 years.

2) Obama must tell the American people that he is not going to balance the budget on the backs of the elderly, the children, the sick and the poor. The deficit was largely caused by Bush's two unpaid-for wars, tax breaks for the rich and the Wall Street-caused recession. The president must reduce the deficit by asking the wealthiest people in this country to start paying their fair share of taxes, by ending enormous corporate tax loopholes and by taking a hard look at wasteful military spending.

3) Given that real unemployment is 15%, the president must propose a major jobs program to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure (roads, bridges, water systems, waste water plants, airports and railroads) and, in the process, create millions of good paying jobs.

4) The president must accelerate his efforts to transform our energy system away from fossil fuel and into energy efficiency and such sustainable energy sources as wind, solar, geothermal and biomass. This would not only address the planetary crisis of global warming but also create jobs.

5) The president must call for real Wall Street reform that ends the largest unregulated gambling casino in the history of the world, and that demands Wall Street invest in the productive economy.

6) The president must support a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United, the disastrous U.S. Supreme Court decision that allows corporations and billionaires to buy politicians.

 

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+119 # dkonstruction 2012-09-07 10:26
Bravo Bernie. As always, you continue to hold the fire to both parties and won't make excuses for either. It's not sufficient to simply say vote for Obama without continuing to demand a genuinely progressive response to the ongoing twin economic and environmental crises.

Instead of "inspiration" with no substance, why could not have Obama simply embraced such a commonsensical list of demands and called out the republicans (as well as his conservative democrats in his own party) and told his "followers" to not simply turn out on election day but on every day after the election and create the kind of mass movement that he needs to give him the political cover and support to actually push for substantive progressive change?
 
 
+33 # maddave 2012-09-07 15:29
Good comment, "d", but the 800 pound gorilla in our laps is that everybody ---including our (truly) beloved Bernie who says "President Obama should be 20 points ahead in the polls right now, not struggling to stay even."---ignore the fact that Obama is NOT a WASP - he's an Afro-American and that it is the goal of myriad GOP propagandists and bigots to make him pay for that accident of birth. IF OBAMA were white. he WOULD enjoy that 20 point lead, which both Bernie and I believe he richly deserves!

The good news: we are NOT in great danger of losing this election because we let down our guard due to over-confidence .
 
 
+4 # lincolnimp 2012-09-09 05:26
[quote name="maddave"] IF OBAMA were white. he WOULD enjoy that 20 point lead, which both Bernie and I believe he richly deserves!
Great post maddave. It often looks like we take the "it goes without saying" path instead of looking the beast in the eyes and smiting it every chance we get. Only in his own country is President Obama regarded with such racism....take a trip abroad and let the love of Barack Obama wash over you. It helps. Just be sure to vote (wherever you are in November) for the current president and to vote out the silly stupid and dangerous tea party goons that are systematically ruining our current Senate and House.
 
 
+16 # ritaague 2012-09-07 16:56
Bingo, konstruction ! Bernie needs to be cloned, over and over again. Great head, and even greater heart Bernie has. And, dkonstruction, terrific head/heart you have too. Go, boys, go !
 
 
+53 # JanneS 2012-09-07 11:12
Wonder what would happen if we gave billions in tax breaks to some rich Republicans and billions in job stimulus programs for infrastructure repairs to Democrats. Wonder which would put the money into circulation? In the United States -- not in Cayman Island tax shelters.
 
 
+19 # BradFromSalem 2012-09-07 11:22
But Bernie, what about the deficit? As "Willie and Paul, The R&R Boys" tell me there won't be enough money left if we keep collecting taxes and then give it back to people when they need it. You know, when they are old or sick or laid off. That's when the guys with the money step up and give whatever didn't fit into their Cayman Island vaults to charity. I am certain the R&R Boys know what they talk about because One R made a gazillion dollars and the other is the top guy in the United States Congress for budget stuff. And if Wall Street is doing so well, why do we want to reform it? You would fix something that works, what a waste. And last of all how can you possibly ask a President that ignores the Constitution by supporting Communism to advocate for an amendment. The Constitution even lists being a Communist as grounds for treason because it requires you to be an atheist. I read that on a Tea Party web page, so I know its true.

So, Senator Sanders please take my comments into consideration when you bring this plan up in Congress. Thanks for putting forward the truth. Sometimes, especially on a Friday afternoon, you gotta laugh at the absurdity around us.
 
 
+16 # Hey There 2012-09-07 11:49
Colbert has joined us in comments now?
I didn't laugh but smiled at the humor in how absurd the whole situation is.
 
 
+31 # davidschandler 2012-09-07 11:34
And he must go after the fraudulent black box voting system.
 
 
+32 # Sensible1 2012-09-07 11:43
Listen to Bernie, he is the voice of how the U. S. should conduct itself. Hear the voices on both sides, the American people; then formulate, with wisdom, a sensible government response. The result should be an America everyone can believe in.
 
 
-120 # jtatu 2012-09-07 11:45
Mitt Romney is a tax payer and a generous philanthropist. I'll bet that Bernie Sanders and dkonstruct, if he is a tax payer, are tax avoiders too. Does anyone seriously believe that Sanders does not use every tax deduction and/or credit available to ensure that he pays no more taxes than are legally required. That makes him a tax avoider.
 
 
+38 # pbbrodie 2012-09-07 12:03
The real question here is what are you?!
 
 
-42 # jtatu 2012-09-07 13:20
Really? I didn't know this conversation was about me.
 
 
+3 # Lolanne 2012-09-08 11:30
Quoting pbbrodie:
The real question here is what are you?!


There's not much question about that...I'll bet we all know.
 
 
+35 # Tazio 2012-09-07 12:17
We would have the answer to your bet if we could only see Sanders' tax returns.
More importantly, we should know whether or not the Republican nominee for President, Mitt Romney, was telling the truth about his financial situation, vis a vis Ryan's promises to end (unspecified) tax loopholes, let alone his claim to 13% minimum tax payment every single year.
And I would really like to learn how to grow my IRA account to $100,000,000.
These would be the sorts of tips that the man in the street could really use.
 
 
+2 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-08 09:57
I bet Saunders is on file, since he holds public office. If you ask him to show, I bet he would.
He like RnR got tax write offs and uses them. So do we
 
 
+1 # karlarove 2012-09-09 10:59
All Rep. Sanders tax returns are on line at OpenSecrets.org
 
 
+43 # paula schramm 2012-09-07 12:29
jtatu - ??? "he pays no more taxes than are legally required"...isn 't that what we all try to do ? Not sure what point you're trying to make. My point would be, if the very wealthy, like Romney, pay less than 15% because they are managing to get their main money from capital gains through investments, why, why in the world LOWER their historically low tax rates ? Let's raise them for the wealthy up to at least where they were in Clinton's time,( if not Eisenhower's, when we had a thriving economy and a flourishing middle class !). Let's TRULY "share the pain" of paying off our largely Wall Street- caused economic disaster !
 
 
+2 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-08 10:02
IRS expects us to. But some sleaze rich do go overboard with write offs, when or if caught they have to make amends.
That is why if Romney and Ryan are such upfront guys where are their returns.
OB has offered to display his for ten years. Mitt and wifey refuse to show the last four, now why is that? He is overdue to show them...that pisses me off.
GOP wanted birther crap...let us all see all GOP Taxes and investments for those in or running for Office. Everyone here from ea state should review this...want to do something under Right to Know, or Public Info Acts let's start looking.

I want to personally see who contributes to them, gifts given...I wonder how much of that Rom has left off?
 
 
+41 # dkonstruction 2012-09-07 12:50
Quoting jtatu:
Mitt Romney is a tax payer and a generous philanthropist. I'll bet that Bernie Sanders and dkonstruct, if he is a tax payer, are tax avoiders too. Does anyone seriously believe that Sanders does not use every tax deduction and/or credit available to ensure that he pays no more taxes than are legally required. That makes him a tax avoider.


jtatu, i wish i could be a tax avoider since i do not want to contribute one penny to the US military industrial complex and our imperial military escapades abroad...unfort unately, as a salaried employee for a non-proift housing organization that works on developing and preserving affordable housing for low- and moderate-income folks, i do not have a choice since taxes are deducted from my paycheck before i ever see a dime. Nice try though...you'll have better luck attacking my "red" politics than you will trying to nail me as a "tax avoider".

And, to be clear, even on my modest non-profit salary (which i have been getting for more than 22 years) i pay a significantly higher percentage of my income to our government than Romney ever has or ever will.
 
 
-36 # jtatu 2012-09-07 13:42
Good for you.
 
 
+19 # Billy Bob 2012-09-07 17:36
No. Actually, bad for our whole country. Paying taxes is a patriotic duty. If you want to live in this country and drive on our roads and drink our water, you should love our country enough to pay the bill.
 
 
-11 # JackB 2012-09-08 08:02
Congress creates the tax laws. If you have a problem with those laws tell Congress.

There are two things here - tax avoidance & tax dodging. The people Barry picks for his cabinet are dodgers - they do not pay the taxes they legally owe. Tax avoidance is taking advantage of all legal ways to avoid paying taxes. Anyone who says he or she considers it a patriotic duty to pay more than they owe is either an imbecile or a liar.

All you hypocrites who are after Romney for his taxes - when you start picking on Kerry & Pelosi & the Kennedys & the Hollywood crowd & the other liberal members of the 1% & telling them about their "Patriotic Duty" then you can start running your mouths about how Romney should pay more.
 
 
+4 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-08 10:09
If you look above I said each of us should get our State Politicians taxes and look at them.

All the slobs have invested overseas...All
Many have stash accounts in places like the Caymen.

So you prove all Barry's are tax dodgers. Because it is getting clearer and clearer everyday that Mittens is Avoiding and Dodging. This year wait to see what he is writing off on clothing, his wife alone. OB's wife also but her clothes are not millions...look it up.

If you are so up on Tax Laws, we have since the sixties trying to get Tax Reform and Amendments to .... since the Rethugs have been in office more times...guess who is avoiding that also
Why, because they would have to tow the line.

Personally, I wish the IRS would Audit every Politician from National on down. Perhaps we would have some surplus eh?
 
 
0 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-08 10:03
Amen.
 
 
+26 # reiverpacific 2012-09-07 13:08
Quoting jtatu:
Mitt Romney is a tax payer and a generous philanthropist. I'll bet that Bernie Sanders and dkonstruct, if he is a tax payer, are tax avoiders too. Does anyone seriously believe that Sanders does not use every tax deduction and/or credit available to ensure that he pays no more taxes than are legally required. That makes him a tax avoider.

Twit a philanthropist my kilted toosh!
First off, where do you get such facts to support these unfounded contentions, when he keeps avoiding any action towards revealing his earnings in the face of a great deal of pressure -including from some more moderate Rethug's? Got an inside track to his elastic finger-in-the-w ind doings have ya? Give us a list of the beneficiaries of his alleged largesse why don't you.
I mean, who does he "give" to besides the obligatory tithe (10%) to the Moron church? If there ARE any others, I'd also bet my k.t. that they are carefully researched and calculated to give him the maximum tax breaks or, like most on the right, he wouldn't give a red cent of his well-hidden and ill-gotten lucre (he has stated that he pays 13%, which is ludicrous and stingy- and that's only for the one year that he'll talk about). -You level this at the Populist champion Sanders, so give us some facts about your chosen Medievalist candidate, who is just waiting in the wings to screw us all even tighter for the benefit of his trickle-filter- down robber-baron peers.
 
 
-39 # jtatu 2012-09-07 17:44
Mitt gave over $4 MM to charity on $20 MM in income in 2011. And paid well over 13% in Fed. income tax. Well over 33% I would say. Compare to the narcissist Obama's contributions especially when Obama was making a paltry 6 figure income. You are mesmerized by an ego-centric anti-American who does not like this country and most of its people.
 
 
+22 # Billy Bob 2012-09-07 18:04
Mitt was running for President in 2011. What was he doing BEFORE he became a candidate?

And, by the way... "well over 13%"? 1. What is "well over"? 13.1%?

We could also say he paid "well UNDER 14%".

Did you know that most of the other 99% of us pay A WHOLE HELL OF A LOT MORE than 13% of our income in taxes? We don't have a few extra million on hand to give to the Mormon Church after claiming our $2 million dressage horse as a "therapeutic" exemption.

Your argument is laughable.
 
 
0 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-08 10:18
We pay almost 30% in work,,,we get no write offs on our paying for utility taxes, satellite or cable. How about the food taxes I cannot write them off.
For what I make I cannot be a philanthropist although I believe I am more so because besides money, I actually volunteer my time to over five organizations I cannot write that off.
I love the word philanthropy. One person I do not know if ReaGun or Bushes were questioned by Barbara Walters, others about their giving. Most, including Democrats do not even know who they give to. Difference with us to them, we know who we give to and why. We even keep up with who we give to and what they are doing.
Philanthropist my eye, they are just trying to buy favor, boasting prowess but they could care less. It is all about write offs.
 
 
+12 # Kiwikid 2012-09-07 21:30
Such venom, such naked hatred, jtatu. Why? Clearly there is an idealogical difference between you and most of RSM's readers, but I'm trying to understand your irrational hatred for Obama. You despise his "paltry 6 figure income"? Is this a sign that he's a loser, or that he earns too much? I'm struggling to understand. Is it because he's black? Is it because he cares about the poor and the middle class? Is it because he's committed to the idea that every one of your citizens should be able to participate in the American dream? Mitt Romney's policies won't make this happen - they'll only drive more people into desperation while rewarding the already over rewarded - his super-rich family, friends, neighbours, and others like him - people with a strong sense of entitlement, that somehow they deserve their riches, because they're worth it. Why would you defend such a man while hating one who really does want to make a positive difference for all Americans? I don't live in your country, but I fear for the hell hole it will become for millions if the Romney/Ryan ticket get the opportunity to implement their rhetoric. The planet, which we share, will become a bleaker place.
 
 
-15 # jtatu 2012-09-08 07:22
What did I say that could possibly be interpreted as venom and naked hatred? My point is that Obama cares for no one but himself as evidenced by his contributions to charity during the time his income was in the 200 to 300 thousand dollar range. He and his followers offer nothing except an appeal to class envy and losers' disdain of the success of others. The fact is that Mitt Romney is a very decent, honest man who is being maliciously demonized by people who call themselves progressives.
 
 
+4 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-08 10:23
Show us the proof who did OB give to then show us who Romney bought favors with...

I do not give a fig about most Politicians, but I do not like people saying they know how we live...they could care less how we live. OB didn't buy up companies and fires the employees. That is a fact, Jack. OB didn't sell out his companies to China.

Want to stick up for someone at least make sure the person has some dignity.
Romney lied about the Healthcare, that was just to start the ball rolling so if there is more in his closet...I believe we have the right to know what is going to run our USA
 
 
+3 # Lolanne 2012-09-08 11:41
Quoting jtatu:
What did I say that could possibly be interpreted as venom and naked hatred? My point is that Obama cares for no one but himself as evidenced by his contributions to charity during the time his income was in the 200 to 300 thousand dollar range. He and his followers offer nothing except an appeal to class envy and losers' disdain of the success of others. The fact is that Mitt Romney is a very decent, honest man who is being maliciously demonized by people who call themselves progressives.


"A decent, honest man"? Romney??? Where have you been lately? Obviously not reading very much. Try perusing Matt Taibbi's in-depth report on Romney and Bain, and maybe you'll learn how "decent and honest" he is. NOT! Here's the link:

readersupportednews.org/.../13180-focus-romney-and-bain-the-true-story
 
 
-9 # jtatu 2012-09-08 13:18
I read Taibbi. He is all disengenuous spin.
 
 
+3 # reiverpacific 2012-09-09 08:05
@"jtatu"
You are SO upside-down on this.
If you want to see the very definition of "Demonization", accompanied by obstructionism, lying and mean-spiritedne ss, look at the actions of what I must assume to be your hate-filled party whose only task has been, as declared publicly by "Bitch" McConnel) to ensure that Obama gets nothing accomplished and to Hell with the common good.
And to call a cynical, offshore-stashi ng former school bully a "Very decent, honest man", is seeing a real stinker through wantonly rose-colored glasses.
We obviously have utterly disparate definitions of "decency".
For "Venom and naked hatred" check out the everyday actions and opinions of the Tea-Party and their rethug' party patsies; uninformed and hateful (e.g. "Keep the Government's hands off my Medicare").
I may have some differences with Obama but I believe that he cares about the grassroots; "Twit" doesn't know the meaning of the word by his baseless, ignorant and tactless utterings and actions -especially in regard to the rest of the world- which is typically Mormon, as they send out their clueless, brainwashed "missionaries".
And I still don't see any requested example of the ALLEGED LARGESS YOU CREDIT HIM WITH. If true, surely they are calculated to squeeze the maximum personal tax break -but still no examples?
If you can't see why you received so many red thumbs-down, you must be utterly blind to reason; we need facts here, not wild speculation.
 
 
+3 # Lolanne 2012-09-09 10:08
Quoting reiverpacific:
@"jtatu"
. . . And I still don't see any requested example of the ALLEGED LARGESS YOU CREDIT HIM WITH. If true, surely they are calculated to squeeze the maximum personal tax break -but still no examples? . . .


And you never will, either. None of us will ever see any real, documented facts from this person, since s/he doesn't deal in facts. These people either spew hateful innuendo and spurious claims or just outright lie. Wonder how much they are paid to show up here...would be interesting to know.
 
 
-1 # jtatu 2012-09-09 12:47
reiverpacific, you relly think I'm bothered by the number of thumbs down I get on this site? Obama cares about himself and power and is willing to cater to class hatred and the disdain losers, which you erroneously refer to as "grassroots, have for the success of others to retain his power. The top 1% of income earners pay about 40% of all federal income taxes, the top 10% about 70%, the bottom 50% about 2%. You think that's fair? I fail to understand why the Takers hate the Makers, from whom they are taking, so much.
 
 
+1 # reiverpacific 2012-09-09 15:01
Quoting jtatu:
reiverpacific, you relly think I'm bothered by the number of thumbs down I get on this site? Obama cares about himself and power and is willing to cater to class hatred and the disdain losers, which you erroneously refer to as "grassroots, have for the success of others to retain his power. The top 1% of income earners pay about 40% of all federal income taxes, the top 10% about 70%, the bottom 50% about 2%. You think that's fair? I fail to understand why the Takers hate the Makers, from whom they are taking, so much.

Please, purty please (or as Roger Rabbit said, "Pb-b-b-b-leeze !")! I still have heard NO FACTS from you to back up these many, many contentions and allegations about your hero -or Mr Obama for that matter!!
That's all I'm asking.
In fact, I rest my case: I'm not about to waste time and valuable space with my poorly-develope d typing skills to engage in a war of words with you; again, it's a bit like rattlin' an empty tin can and a tone-deaf one at that.
All I asked for is backup and have shown you in fairly comprehensive and currently-avail able detail, examples that illustrate my stances but backup came there none from you.
I rest my case and wish you clarity of vision and some factual reference for future posts.
"With me along some strip of Herbage strown
That just divides the Desert from the sown,
Where name of Slave and Sultan scarce is known,
And pity Sultan Mahmud on his Throne".
 
 
+2 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-08 10:13
You are evil and not very much up to specs.
Like I said you have the right to know so if you are going to spout off on a billionaires taxes get them all straight cause he isn't He is making his own problem by not showing them.
 
 
+3 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-08 10:11
Philanthropy for millionaires is just more tax write offs. As I said above besides the normal ones from Church to Cancer Society....I bet he didn't try to save Buffalo, Wolves or start any soup kitchens

His open disclosure is overdue....I see no one going after him, esp Congress
 
 
-6 # jtatu 2012-09-08 13:13
Thanks for showing us what venom and naked hatred look like.
 
 
-51 # JackB 2012-09-07 13:35
Good post.

- If Sanders isn't just pushing liberal BS at us, if he really has proof that Romney is not paying the taxes he owes then he ought to get off his ass & give his evidence to the IRS. That's what he ought to do but he hasn't done that. Why I wonder?

- The same with the charge of illegal actions on Wall Street. If he has proof then tell Holder. He hasn't done that either.

Romney's taxes are a fun issue. Hell, if he was dodging taxes Obama would have asked him to join his Cabinet. But the fun part is to liberals he is the only one in the country who should find ways to pay more taxes than he owes. Of course all the liberals on this blog spend the first three months of the year trying to figure out ways to pay more than they owe. Right?? Oh, not right?? A little liberal hypocrisy is always fun. Well at least you also go after the 1% folks who are Democrats. Right?? Oh Dear, not another No. And everyone seems so righteous. Destroys my faith in liberal honesty.
 
 
+7 # reiverpacific 2012-09-07 17:10
Quoting JackB:
Good post.
- If Sanders isn't just pushing liberal BS at us, if he really has proof that Romney is not paying the taxes he owes then he ought to get off his ass & give his evidence to the IRS. That's what he ought to do but he hasn't done that. Why I wonder?
-The same with the charge of illegal actions on Wall Street. If he has proof then tell Holder. He hasn't done that either.
Romney's taxes are a fun issue. Hell, if he was dodging taxes Obama would have asked him to join his Cabinet. But the fun part is to liberals he is the only one in the country who should find ways to pay more taxes than he owes. Of course all the liberals on this blog spend the first three months of the year trying to figure out ways to pay more than they owe. Right?? Oh, not right?? A little liberal hypocrisy is always fun. Well at least you also go after the 1% folks who are Democrats. Right?? Oh Dear, not another No. And everyone seems so righteous. Destroys my faith in liberal honesty.

Has anybody ever asked Sanders for his taxes?
Get the term "liberal" in context.
I'd about rather be pilloried than called Liberal.
Bernie Sanders is a good, hard-working, insightful populist SOCIALIST, which is why he remains independent from all the milquetoast compromise with the right that delights the likes of Karl Rove.
Do you fancy a one-party system? That's what you are facing if Twit is selected.
Your post is way off subject.
 
 
0 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-08 10:37
Most of these people on all sites, articles are so opinionated...t hey are too lazy as are we to get the facts. There are organizations that actually present gifts given, donations given. I will have to see who CEH might be one but each State has Organizations that get this research done and then show us how our candidates vote, who is their buddies.
I know with Fracking in Pa Corbett got large chunk of change as did GOP Politicians but the Dems got nice chunk of spending money themselves. I am not talking about money to DNC I mean to themselves.
People put a lot of time into doing this research, some volunteers.

We cannot give you Romney's Taxes because he has not give them up to the Office who reviews ...he is overdue, and worried. OB has offered to show them all, some already on file as he had to show them as Candidate. So we have the right to review those. Sanders had to show to run for office so they are Public. Just got to find where to go. OB and Sanders and others will tell you..ask them for that information. Go to your local Officials but stop harping and do some leg work is what I say to those who bash rather than show us proof
 
 
+9 # bingers 2012-09-07 19:24
Quoting jtatu:
Really? I didn't know this conversation was about me.



I don't think Bernie said he was a tax cheat, but that a tax system that allows him to pay so little is a disgrace and damaging to America. Frankly, any tax rate below 70% for a top marginal rate is damaging for the country.
 
 
+12 # bingers 2012-09-07 19:25
Sanders releases his taxes every year.
 
 
+1 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-08 10:40
Once there hat is in ring, they must...Public Information Act.
OB offered to show ten years. Mitt is overdue Is Ryan also, probably not since he just got ring toss. But he will have to.
What I think makes the Candidate is who they get the checks from to their pet projects, foundations or selves ex Fracking paid to the individual all parties took the money We have list in Pa I told both the big wigs what I thought of them
 
 
+1 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-08 10:30
Point is all of them use every write off they can...Bernie didn't say he didn't
Since 5 people have questioned the taxes and it is now going to be confronted in Congress by Saunders Goood. I believe the info on Bain should be made Public also.

I believe every Politician, Lawyer, Corporations should be audited but that hasn't happened and like I said the Rethugs have had air time more than Dems

I do go after Democrats alike. I ask them where they have been for the past three years. I also saw the money given to them as well as Rethugs for Fracking, Pipeline...it is all Public Information

If any of you actually took the time to research maybe you would stand back and really see. They are all crooks, and We allow it. Don't figure
but people like you rather blame your name calling of people than accepting the fact that you are Lazy and Allow these fat Sleazes to get away with it all...tax evasion, investing outsourcing, murder, and so much more.

I am part of the We, but at least I pin them against every chance I get. I cannot tell the Dems from the Thugs anymore. Percentage of good American Politicians is lower than it should be.
 
 
+21 # RLF 2012-09-07 14:38
A generous Philantropist! Ha what a joke..he give to his church...that shouldn't even be a tax deduction with the way churches have jumped into politics. I haven't heard one word about the ARTS from either candidate. The whine about how American entrepreneurs aren't as creative as the used to be and then in the same breath talk about how funding for math and science education is the most important. What a joke...don't people realize that new ideas have to come from somewhere and when you let the arts fester, they aren't going to come from here. know why everyone wants a German or Japanese car? DESIGN!
 
 
+14 # cabotool 2012-09-07 15:56
Quoting jtatu:
Mitt Romney is a tax payer and a generous philanthropist..


Tax payer at 13%? Bet that counts property taxes, sales taxes on his new boat, taxes on his trips to Switzerland and the Cayman Islands, social security taxes on income he made from a "real job", social security taxes on the maids that wait on him. He probably deducts putting the dog on the roof of his car! Hmmm. let's see, the dog guards his million dollar properties so he is deducting all the costs of keeping his dog... even the dog carrier for the roof of his car.

It's easy to come up with things. It is exactly what I would do if I were a money grubbing manipulator who was making his money by sending jobs to China.

By the way.. I was at Stanford about 12 years before he was.

I remember how the Dean of the Stanford Graduate School of Business said to me, when I was protesting underhanded and manipulative measures by an off campus competitor against my two person photography business. He said, "Well, Pete, that's just good business!"

Thank how many fools and crooks that professor infected with his, "get the money and take all" even if it's your own mother. Perhaps Mitt the twit was one of his students!
 
 
0 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-08 10:41
I know lots of lawyers and accountants that give that advice daily...how else do they get their 'fair' share
 
 
+16 # JCM 2012-09-07 16:36
You are missing the real meaning of this type of tax avoidance. He has this ability to avoid taxes in this way because of the vast amounts of money, read lobbying, that goes into Congress. It is the very wealthiest that use their wealth in order to create laws and regulations that, as Elisabeth Warren would say, rigs the system to their best benefit. They have created a system that allows them vast sums of money without making anything and then hoard it in untaxed off shore accounts. An estimate I read was as much as 32 trillion, mostly American money. Without infusing this back into the economy, ours and the worlds economies suffer. As far as I am concerned, this is legalized theft and this includes the type of “investment”, Bain Capital does.
 
 
0 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-08 10:44
Fracking actually went into the individual bank accounts. I know it also lobbied and paid off Party but they paid out individually I had the paper and the amounts, names. Believe me thugs got more but $200.000 on way out of office is not a small amount. My friends got $20,000 to 50,000 to use their property...talk about a shaft.
 
 
0 # Lolanne 2012-09-08 11:48
Quoting JCM:
You are missing the real meaning of this type of tax avoidance. He has this ability to avoid taxes in this way because of the vast amounts of money, read lobbying, that goes into Congress. It is the very wealthiest that use their wealth in order to create laws and regulations that, as Elisabeth Warren would say, rigs the system to their best benefit. They have created a system that allows them vast sums of money without making anything and then hoard it in untaxed off shore accounts. An estimate I read was as much as 32 trillion, mostly American money. Without infusing this back into the economy, ours and the worlds economies suffer. As far as I am concerned, this is legalized theft and this includes the type of “investment”, Bain Capital does.


Yep, totally agree, JCM. Where is a Lisbeth Salander when we need one??? :)
 
 
+13 # Linda 2012-09-07 17:25
jtatu everyone who pays taxes uses every tax deduction they are allowed to and they don't pay any more than is legally required ! So how do you get that it makes Bernie Sanders a tax cheat ? Having a tax shelter in the Cayman Islands is different because they pay no taxes at all on that money ! To put it in simple terms, Romney is not paying taxes on everything he has earned by keeping most of his money in the Cayman Islands !
I am not trying to be rude but I think you are being conned by the Republican's propaganda machine simply because you don't understand the difference between avoiding paying taxes and paying what is legally required by law !If Romney paid what is legally required by law he would be paying taxes on every penny he has earned," minus the legal deductions ,but this is not what he is doing ! He is using the Cayman Islands to hide the majority of his money so he won't have to pay taxes on it !
I would think everyone who works hard and pays taxes without any loop holes and uses only the standard deductions allowed should be darn right angry that just because Romney is rich enough to hire people to hide his money in foreign accounts he gets away without paying his fair share while we ,"the little people,"would go to jail if we didn't pay taxes on all our income !
Why do you think Romney deserves to be treated differently ? Really ! I am serious, why ?
 
 
-22 # jtatu 2012-09-07 18:07
Linda, your first sentence says it all. I believe Mitt Romney has paid all he is legally required to pay. Romney is not being treated differently. You know as well as I that if he were doing anything illegal in his high profile position with Eric Holder as the Attorney General, he would be under arrest.
 
 
+2 # JCM 2012-09-07 20:40
See my comment above-
 
 
+15 # Kiwikid 2012-09-07 21:35
What seems to have escaped you jtatu, is that Mitt and his mates are the ones who buy the legislators who reward him with low tax rates and loop holes so that his 'legal' liability is kept to a minimum.
 
 
+8 # jcdav 2012-09-08 04:54
I'm a whole lot more interested to see what address he used on his 1040 the year he supposedly was living in his son's basement in Mass.
 
 
+1 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-08 10:49
Holder is not doing anything...he is letting this go Romney must show these taxes, if he is so honest Where are the taxes.

Birthers certainly had their three years. We are asking for three months. Now he accepted the Nomination Nationally....w here are the taxes= forms
 
 
0 # bingers 2012-09-09 12:53
Quoting jtatu:
Linda, your first sentence says it all. I believe Mitt Romney has paid all he is legally required to pay. Romney is not being treated differently. You know as well as I that if he were doing anything illegal in his high profile position with Eric Holder as the Attorney General, he would be under arrest.


That may or may not be the case. There was an amnesty in which people who cheated by sending money to tax havens were allowed to bring it back without being charged with the felonies they committed. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts (admittedly a more impressive bet when doughnuts were 5 cents each) that Romney did that among other more legal things that made his tax burden less than that of John Q Public, which would sour many of his supporters.
 
 
+1 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-08 10:47
All who do these off shore accounts in many countries piss me off. Those who say they care about America, get my goat even more.
First you sell out jobs to Asia, then you invest out of the USA so you make no money on the bribes you took. Again I do not care which party

Right now Romney want to be President but he is ashamed? of his taxes.....that is an OOOOOPPPPPS which makes us all Question Authority.

He is overdue these tax show and tell so that shows where Congress stands on Fraud
 
 
+12 # Billy Bob 2012-09-07 17:34
Mitten's word isn't good enough for me. I want proof. Why is he too afraid to release any of it?

The problem isn't that mitten's may have just been getting away with all the loopholes the rich have. The problem is that HE CAN GET AWAY WITH IT.

His embarrassment about his own taxes is proof the laws need to be changed and the rich need to start paying their fair share again.
 
 
+2 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-08 10:52
Embarassment is going to be more than we realize. I believe he is really scared.

I do not understand why he is allowed to be a Candidate when he is withholding this information. If IRS wanted to Audit us do you think they would allow us to run them around in circles.

Mitt did something, besides the selling out companies to China and losing thousands of jobs He and Trump should get awards for that alone. But there is something very fishy in Mass about this
 
 
+3 # bingers 2012-09-07 19:19
I know that you, being a conservative, figure everyone is as dishonest as you guys are, but it ain't so.
 
 
+2 # jcdav 2012-09-08 04:48
errr excuse me, would you happen to have any facts to back up your statement.. or are you just tossing rocks?
 
 
-5 # JackB 2012-09-08 07:51
Congratulations . You have hit the century mark in negative votes. On this board that is the ultimate proof that everything you said was correct.
 
 
0 # bingers 2012-09-09 12:55
Quoting JackB:
Congratulations. You have hit the century mark in negative votes. On this board that is the ultimate proof that everything you said was correct.



No, buddy, this is Care2, not NewsMax.
 
 
0 # jtatu 2012-09-09 13:00
Thanks. Agreed.
 
 
+2 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-08 09:56
Everyone uses tax allowances to get money back IRS was set up to know that.

Mitt hasn't paid taxes it is time we see those reports. He is overdue on them.

I work I pay taxes, my accountant does my form, I get what I am allowed back. If I was a sleaze millionaire I could get more back because my tax man would look into what I did, and use it to my advantage.

So I am against the slugs not paying their fare share because I know what they can write off. If they paid more, they would get more back. Any Moron knows this.

There is a lawyer here that always goes around telling everyone what a great guy he is because he donates. I told people and he writes it off, if not he would no give it.

I buy off the rack, R^R gets custom suits for speeches. They write that off
Wifeys spend $200,000 on an outfit when people are out of work...she can write it off. They get away with it but tell us they know how we feel, how our lives are. Not wearing $200.000 dresses.

Look up what someone making two million a year can write off. Look up what someone making $25,000 year can then you buy the crying towel for your GOP.
Philanthropist...right Its a tax write off. He wouldn't give a penny if he couldn't write it off. Get a Life
 
 
+2 # Regina 2012-09-08 10:54
The market manipulators rake the money in, and bask in the fanciest loopholes for their tax returns. Those of us who are still working at mere jobs, or collecting from the few remaining pensions that the big brutes bray against, pay taxes at far higher rates, tabulated right there in the 1040 instructions. We couldn't "avoid" if we wanted to! A f'rinstance to keep in mind: The Romneys got a $77,000+ writeoff as a "business expense" for the care and feeding of their dancing show horse!
 
 
+1 # BlueReview 2012-09-09 05:39
Quoting jtatu:
Mitt Romney is a tax payer and a generous philanthropist. I'll bet that Bernie Sanders and dkonstruct, if he is a tax payer, are tax avoiders too. Does anyone seriously believe that Sanders does not use every tax deduction and/or credit available to ensure that he pays no more taxes than are legally required. That makes him a tax avoider.


Well, I've used tax deductions too. Does that make ME a "tax avoider"? I suppose that argument could be made. Legal? Sure. Moral? Yep. What I don't have is money stuffed into a Cayman Islands account so that I don't have to pay taxes on it in the country where I claim citizenship. Legal? Must be. Moral? Nope. I also have never listed myself as living in another state . . . because that second state had lower taxes. Legal? Nope. How did Romney get away with it? Good question.

Generous philanthropist? When you have hundreds of billions, what's a few thou? Especially when you can claim it AS A TAX DEDUCTION.

Have I ever given to charity? Well, yes. Where's my "generous philanthropist" commendation? Did I claim those charitable contributions as tax deductions? Well . . . no. They might've made a difference on how much taxes I paid, but not enough to make it worth my while to go through the hassle and expense of hiring a tax specialist. Does that mean my charitable contributions meant less? Just because I gave less?

Just because I have less to give?
 
 
0 # jtatu 2012-09-09 12:56
If you are not giving enough to charity for it to not be worth taking a taking a tax deduction for it, you'll not be getting a generous philanthropist commendation.
 
 
0 # BlueReview 2012-09-09 16:30
Quoting jtatu:
If you are not giving enough to charity for it to not be worth taking a taking a tax deduction for it, you'll not be getting a generous philanthropist commendation.


So, your answer is "Correct: it means less because you give less. And those who donate their time instead of money they can't afford, they are completely ungenerous."
 
 
+1 # karlarove 2012-09-09 10:58
Jtatu, please tell us what you know about Bernie Sanders tax scams! He was worth $429,000 in 2010. I went to Open Secrets to see what I could find, so you must know something they don't.
 
 
+16 # DaveEwoldt 2012-09-07 12:19
Bernie, the thing is that the economy isn't the only thing on people's minds, which is why Obama doesn't have a 20 point lead. The continuing loss of civil liberties, increasing military presence globally, abject failure to address global warming and in fact taking steps to make it worse, and continuing "free" trade agreements and corporate personhood that decimate local economies have gotten people to the point where they honestly can't see which corporate stooge they'd be better off supporting. This is why brain-dead Tea Party slogans are so easy for so many to accept.
 
 
+3 # bingers 2012-09-07 19:28
Which is why he should be 40 points ahead. All those things you mention are Republican dogma.
 
 
-2 # DaveEwoldt 2012-09-08 07:50
No, bingers, they're not Republican dogma, they're reality. In fact, if you've been paying attention for the past four years, most of the things I mentioned the Republicans won't bash Obama with because they fully support them, like the NDAA and the TPP. The blame for the failure of the Copenhagen climate talks falls pretty much entirely at Obama's feet, and the Republicans are indebted to him for protecting the interests of the elite ruling class so well.
 
 
+3 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-08 10:53
a. he is black
b. he is not openly republican or nazi you pick
 
 
0 # noitall 2012-09-09 14:28
Sad how subtle the difference. DaveE is right though, on the main things that we should be worried about (the very things no one is talking about [and we're not demanding they do]) are not mentioned. I'd say that we pretty much live in a fascist state. No mention of that either as we play the election game and find solace in the uneasy belief that we still live in a "democracy".
 
 
+20 # grouchy 2012-09-07 12:31
It shows the effectiveness of the Repub spin machine--and what a massive spending campaign can bring; massive propaganda success!
 
 
+2 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-08 10:56
Do you realize how much of that spending spree could have been put back into the medicare that has been robbed since ReaGun..
Or perhaps help those with foreclosures
Or feed the Hungary
Or Create Jobs.

Their spending sprees seperately would do more than the above but join the waste together...we would created another ten thousand jobs
 
 
+8 # Buddha 2012-09-07 13:09
The problem is there is a HUGE amount of people totally ignorant economically, here in the USA and abroad. You got fools in tri-cornered hats thinking tax breaks for Plutocrats will trickle-down to them, and that cutting spending while in a deflationary environment a la Herbert Hoover is going to improve our situation. Crazy enough that thinking permeats the halls of power in Europe, where conservatives there pushed "austerity" in the face of deflation, and cratered the economy and skyrocketed unemployment. The ECB just announced a "bond-buying program" where they will, get this, for every dollar of bonds of governments who implemented austerity, they will take an equivalent Euro "out of circulation". During deflation!! Completely insane. I almost wish Obama DOESN'T win, because we are going into a deep global Depression in 2013 no matter what, and why should he take the blame?
 
 
+1 # JayS 2012-09-07 13:11
Unfortunately, this is not the Obama agenda. Obama has cut social security funding already. He initiated a 2% tax deduction directly from money that goes into the social security trust fund.

He also proposed new jobs and 100 years worth of natural gas, the company line I might add. Natural gas extraction is using our water and enriching the oil & gas industry. It is not energy independence. It is creating dependence on the oil & gas industry.

Since Bernie is not running, I will be voting for Jill Stein.
 
 
+3 # daniel-avery 2012-09-07 13:32
That doesn't go nearly far enough to for the left to support Obama. Here is what he should have done: prosecute war criminals (Bush, Cheney, Yoo, Bybee, etc.), shut down the drone program, shut down the kill list, not expand the Afghan war, close military bases not open new ones, fire AG Holder, jail those responsible for the economy's collapse, hold Bank of America and the others responsible to keep people in their homes, make good judicial appointments, and much more.
 
 
+12 # MidwestTom 2012-09-07 13:33
This whole loss of jobs bit really bugs me. We all buy imported televisions and computers. Why? Because they are cheaper in price. The only things that we can make here with competitive prices are things that are too large to freight here, like cars and trucks. Anything smaller than 4 feet, by 4 feet, by 4 feet cann be made cheaper overseas. Our lobster and much of our fish come from Vietnam, WalMart (the largest destroyer of US jobs) buys almost everything overseas. Men's boxer shorts are custom made by 4000 workers in Ethiopia for Walmart. Give me a real plan on how to change that.
 
 
+12 # Billy Bob 2012-09-07 17:39
A real plan would stop rewarding companies for going wherever they can find slave labor. We could say, if you want to sell here, you have to MAKE here. Plain and simple. Companies will still go for the cheepest profits they can get away with to beat out their competition. The only things that would suffer would be profit margins and CEO salaries. I can live with that.
 
 
+4 # dovelane1 2012-09-07 21:40
The problem with most of the 1% is that they don't want to make a profit, they want to make a killing. In doing so, they will, eventually, kill everything and everybody as we know it, if the environmental data I'm reading is true.

It's been written that to a wise person, enough is as good as a feast. To the 1%, there will never be enough, no matter how much they have. As I understand it, greed is based on fear; I believe it is the fear that they will never have enough, be it money, power, what have you, that drives them.

So many times in this country, we aim our comments at the symptoms of the problem, and never get to the real problem, which is why it never gets solved. Take away a person's fear, and how much more rational would they be?

Obama talked about fear in his first campaign. I think that idea needs to be mentioned again. The Republicans attitude and rhetoric is all based on fear - be afraid of this, be afraid of that.

The main problem we face as people is that we have to stop allowing our fears to influence or control our decisions. If we can't do that, we reinforce the Republican agenda of giving in to our fear.

To me, the people who think Republican have given in to their fear. Once that happens, it is hard for that person to think rationally, because they are allowing their fear to do all the thinking for them. It's okay to be concerned, but it is never wise or judicious to be afraid.
 
 
+12 # dkonstruction 2012-09-07 18:43
Quoting MidwestTom:
This whole loss of jobs bit really bugs me. We all buy imported televisions and computers. Why? Because they are cheaper in price. The only things that we can make here with competitive prices are things that are too large to freight here, like cars and trucks. Anything smaller than 4 feet, by 4 feet, by 4 feet cann be made cheaper overseas. Our lobster and much of our fish come from Vietnam, WalMart (the largest destroyer of US jobs) buys almost everything overseas. Men's boxer shorts are custom made by 4000 workers in Ethiopia for Walmart. Give me a real plan on how to change that.


the plan is actually rather simple and straightforward.

1) Ensure that the tax code makes it much more expensive to outsource capital and jobs than invest it here in the US

2) Create a New Deal style public works program (which since it will come under federal law and the contracts awarded will be large enough will be subject to the Davis-Bacon prevailing wage laws which means the jobs will be good paying jobs) to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure nationwide including a 21st century "smart grid" and high speed rail system

3) Dramatically increase funding to the Small Business Administration to fund the creation of worker-owned cooperatives (worker/owners don't generally underpay themselves or outsource their own jobs) along the Model of the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain
 
 
+13 # dkonstruction 2012-09-07 18:47
4) create publicly owned financial institutions along the lines of the State Bank of North Dakota so that government public works projects do not need 'wall street' bond market debt financing

5) If we can't get to the IWW's vision of One Big Union at the very least since capital is now global, labor must be too so unions need to be reorganized internationally so that workers in a single industry are organized into one union across national boundaries

6) give pension funds back to the workers to control and take them away from professional fund managers so that unions once again "invest" not just to make the best return but also in things that benefit their workers and the communities they live in (e.g., building affordable rental housing).

How's that for the beginnings of a plan?
 
 
+6 # ericsongs 2012-09-08 03:30
Quoting dkonstruction:
How's that for the beginnings of a plan?


It is a damned good beginning!
 
 
+1 # bingers 2012-09-07 19:31
A tariff equal to 125% of the difference in cost between making it there and making it here and withdrawal from all trade agreements.
 
 
+3 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-08 10:59
How many appliances are made here?

Tariff on American Companies that ship jobs out and then come here to sell.
 
 
0 # noitall 2012-09-11 18:38
The solution is called 'REGULATION' but that is almost as dirty a word as "pay your freekin' share of the taxes". It might have helped if we use some creativeness, started a program to install solar collectors (like from the business that we banked and let go under) and do double duty by installing them in such a way that they provide shade for ever-warming rivers and streams, helping fish, slowing evaporation, and creating jobs.
 
 
+19 # Art947 2012-09-07 13:47
President Obama mentioned everything that Sen. Sanders suggested in his acceptance speech. Now the problem is to get the ignorant masses of Americans to wake up and understand the difference between fact and fantasy. The President (and Bill CLinton) presented the facts and the solutions to our economic and environmental problems, the R boys provided platitudes without solutions.
 
 
+18 # Mike Farrace 2012-09-07 14:19
Here's what I don't understand: why is passive dividend income taxed at a lower rate than a payroll check in the first place? Seems to me it should be taxed higher -- a lot higher, with tax breaks only coming when it is put to use funding business activity that actually creates jobs of a certain kind. That would be a wholesome way to avoid taxes.
 
 
+3 # bingers 2012-09-07 19:33
Quoting Mike Farrace:
Here's what I don't understand: why is passive dividend income taxed at a lower rate than a payroll check in the first place? Seems to me it should be taxed higher -- a lot higher, with tax breaks only coming when it is put to use funding business activity that actually creates jobs of a certain kind. That would be a wholesome way to avoid taxes.


Amen!
 
 
0 # noitall 2012-09-11 18:40
That should be the taxed income; income derived from one's own labor should not be taxed.
 
 
-18 # seeuingoa 2012-09-07 14:30
Why is Obama struggling to stay even ?

Easy!

He let us down on

violation of 1st Amendment
fracking
drones
kill list
taxcut for the rich
tar sand pipeline
indefinite detention


and please don´t mention Congress,
he never signed with a gun to his head.

this said by the strongest of supporters
in 2008, but not anymore.
 
 
+11 # Billy Bob 2012-09-07 17:42
Maybe you should ask yourself why he's still ahead in the Presidential race with all the anger the left has for him? The answer could be said in just four words:

mittens romney / ayn ryan

These two want to make sure things get a whole lot worse than they already are. We are in no position to make an offensive move at this point. We need a defensive strategy to prevent things from getting dramatically worse. Believe me, under President Mittens, your list of complaints will grow substantially.
 
 
-5 # seeuingoa 2012-09-07 23:42
reply to Billy Bob:

Romney is for sure awful, but how can anyone vote for someone with a kill list?
 
 
+6 # JCM 2012-09-08 04:48
Would you prefer all out war?
 
 
+1 # BlueReview 2012-09-09 06:09
Quoting seeuingoa:
reply to Billy Bob:

Romney is for sure awful, but how can anyone vote for someone with a kill list?


Is Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid on his "kill list"? It sure seems to be on Romney/Ryan's, along with the right decide for myself what I should or should not do with my body.
 
 
0 # bingers 2012-09-09 13:02
What was Bush's deck of cards? Forgot that kill list? That's what Obama is doing as well. If you want a global war on terror you have to know who top take out.
 
 
0 # noitall 2012-09-11 18:49
...and you don't think Romney will have a kill list?!? Time to use the bean and drop the naivete. Romney won't toss around accusations about "War crimes" either because "pot and kettle".
 
 
+11 # pernsey 2012-09-07 18:05
# seeuingoa 2012-09-07 14:30
Why is Obama struggling to stay even ?

Because stupid people will vote for Mitt and somehow rationalize it to themselves that he is going to do something better, well he isnt, hes going to bring this country to its knees, and then he can disappear into never neverland with G. W. Bush. Just another empty headed idiot that the republicans will have to pretend never exsisted and blame the dems for all his blunders. Business as usual.
 
 
0 # noitall 2012-09-11 18:51
Yeah, all you have to do is look at last November. There's some dumb-assed voters in this country for sure. Willing to cut off their nose to spite their face.
 
 
-4 # bingers 2012-09-07 19:34
There is little or no truth to any of that ignorant spew.
 
 
+2 # dovelane1 2012-09-07 21:41
Were you responding to pernsey or seeuingoa? I assume it's the seeuingoa, so I don't think you should be getting any thumbs down.
 
 
+2 # bingers 2012-09-09 13:04
Quoting dovelane1:
Were you responding to pernsey or seeuingoa? I assume it's the seeuingoa, so I don't think you should be getting any thumbs down.



Thank you! I was 8^)
 
 
+2 # bingers 2012-09-09 13:04
Quoting bingers:
There is little or no truth to any of that ignorant spew.


To those who left me the negs, my reply was to seeuingoa, not the ones that got inserted in front of me. I guess I should have included his post in mine.
 
 
0 # noitall 2012-09-11 18:45
I understand how you feel, but the biggest pisser is that It's the only game in town and they both have a great big handful of your balls. Vote for the one who ain't going to squeeze as hard. Don't vote and they both squeeze the B-JEEZEZ out of 'em. Its Amerika. (Give them a million and they'll drop the balls).
 
 
-8 # MidwestTom 2012-09-07 15:14
If we really want jobs we have to be competitive with manufacturing cost overseas. The only way to do that is to drastically lower our living standards, which is happening. Houses used to be framed by carpenters earning $19 to $15 per hour. Now they are framed by Mexicans who live in a rundown hotel and who are very happy to work for a lot less.

The biggest problem with this slowly arriving adjustment is the growing split between those who are in fields that pay big money, and those that are in fields competing with foreign firms. Many supporters of both parties are making 10's of millions per year (I am sure that Oprah can buy and sell Romney). As the wages fall for most, the top 10% are doing better and better, thanks ironically to the bail outs, sold to us as job savers. There is a big adjustment coming.
 
 
+10 # reiverpacific 2012-09-07 17:25
Quoting MidwestTom:
If we really want jobs we have to be competitive with manufacturing cost overseas. The only way to do that is to drastically lower our living standards, which is happening. Houses used to be framed by carpenters earning $19 to $15 per hour. Now they are framed by Mexicans who live in a rundown hotel and who are very happy to work for a lot less.
The biggest problem with this slowly arriving adjustment is the growing split between those who are in fields that pay big money, and those that are in fields competing with foreign firms. Many supporters of both parties are making 10's of millions per year (I am sure that Oprah can buy and sell Romney). As the wages fall for most, the top 10% are doing better and better, thanks ironically to the bail outs, sold to us as job savers. There is a big adjustment coming.

You really are out of touch.
The "Mexicans" where I live are in houses they rent or buy for themselves, work as farm laborers, dishwashers, cooks and so on, jobs most Americans won't dirty their hands with and contribute both culturally and economically to the community, make it diverse and are law-abiding, hard working people, some starting their own businesses.
The "lowering of living standards" will cease the day multi-national Corporations who own the beltway, decide to make quality goods here, cut their obscene profits and pay a living wage -but that's not even on their radars, is it?
 
 
+9 # Billy Bob 2012-09-07 17:44
Thank you for takling the fox b.s. head-on. Being originally from Europe I suppose you know a thing or two about "standard of living" and are well aware of the big lie being sold to us by the right-wing.

Thank you.
 
 
+2 # dovelane1 2012-09-07 21:52
Midwest Tom - I've had a bumper sticker on my car for 12 years or more that reads "More jobs? What about less people?"

As I understand it, we are graduating people faster than we can possibly create jobs. Starting back in the 80's when employers started noticing that they were getting more applications for jobs than they had jobs, they started to figure out that they could pay people what they wanted to, and if the employee didn't want to take it, there were other people applying.

And then they noticed the slave wage labor available overseas. And then computers started taking jobs away from people.

We are breeding ourselves, and technolizing ourselves out of jobs.

I recently applied for an $8 an hour, 20 hour a week job in my hometown of 10,000 people, and the woman who did the hiring told me that she had more than 20 applicants for this part-time position, and all of us had a minimum of a bachelor's degree. The woman who got the job had a law degree.

I don't see how the job situation is ever going to get better with the population out of control as it is. With the environmental problems getting worse, that may kill off a lot of us, and that may be what the 1% is counting on. If we are all focused on survival, it will be harder to think about changing what is wrong.
 
 
+4 # Lolanne 2012-09-08 12:06
@dovelane1:
I think you're absolutely right about the need for population control.
So what do the right wingnuts want to do? Take away contraception rights, of course! Makes perfect sense, right? We need fewer people, so they want to change the rules to insure we get many, many MORE people. Guess they feel they'll need them for slaves.

VOTE DEM ALL THE WAY!
 
 
0 # noitall 2012-09-11 19:03
I support women's right to choose and I support people's right to use contraception and to abort if they see fit. It is up to the individual to get married, have kids, not get married, not have kids. You seem to be of the attitude that it would be good to enforce "population control". I see that as being as bad as the other. The People decide what is right when it comes to their own personal life.
 
 
-5 # jtatu 2012-09-08 13:15
Good points. I see no reason to dislike this post. But what is reason to the typical RSN reader?
 
 
0 # noitall 2012-09-11 18:57
Yeah we can lower our standards OR we can apply tariffs to those products made by slaves and sold to us so that our superior products made by US are affordable to US. Our landfills are being filled by worthless crap that WalMart sells to ignorant consumers.
 
 
+10 # popeye47 2012-09-07 18:40
Bernie is one of the very few in Congress who is for the average person.
 
 
+9 # bingers 2012-09-07 19:36
Quoting popeye47:
Bernie is one of the very few in Congress who is for the average person.


There are a lot of them, but not a single one is Republican.
 
 
+9 # pernsey 2012-09-07 20:37
Quoting popeye47:
Bernie is one of the very few in Congress who is for the average person.


I used to live in Vermont, Bernie was the best! I remember driving through the capitol Montpelier, VT and seeing Bernie himself on the street corner wearing a sandwich sign, handing out flyers for his re-election. When we needed him, he was there, always helped us when businesses tried to dodge paying workers or paying their taxes. I have no complaints about Bernie, hes one of the best of the best!
 
 
+3 # Smokey 2012-09-08 12:24
Here's a big question for Americans: Who won the Cold War?

ANSWER: Read the last chapter in George Orwell's book, "Animal Farm." At the end of the book, the capitalists and the Communists have made a deal.... Workers can't tell one group of pigs from another.... Nixon went to China during the 1970s and he made some deals with the Communists.... American industries and jobs got exported to places like China and Vietnam.... Tell Romney and his big money buddies to say "no" to Red China and to invest their money in America.... The real "pro-Communists " in today's America are with Romney. What Romney wants is a China-style country, managed by an elite, that pays workers a few pennies and treats them like ignorant peasants. Goodbye to strong unions, consumer rights, environmentalis ts, etc., if the Romney crowd gets what it wants.
 
 
+2 # noitall 2012-09-09 11:31
Bernie lays out the recipe for success of this Nation. Why it isn't followed to the letter is all too obvious...neith er of the two parties in this two party system represent the majority interests of this country.
 

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