Excerpt: "It is unconscionable that extremist groups circulate letters which accuse me of horrific things, saying that I am a traitor. These lies have circulated for almost 40 years, continually reopening the wound of the Vietnam War."
Jane Fonda talks with Vietnamese people during a trip to Hanoi in 1972. (photo: Joseph Kraft/L'Express)
The Truth About My Trip to Hanoi
23 July 11
grew up during World War II. My childhood was influenced by the roles my father played in his movies. Whether Abraham Lincoln or Tom Joad in the Grapes of Wrath, his characters communicated certain values which I try to carry with me to this day. I remember saying goodbye to my father the night he left to join the Navy. He didn't have to. He was older than other servicemen and had a family to support but he wanted to be a part of the fight against fascism, not just make movies about it. I admired this about him. I grew up with a deep belief that wherever our troops fought, they were on the side of the angels.
For the first eight years of the Vietnam War I lived in France. I was married to the French film director, Roger Vadim and had my first child. The French had been defeated in their own war against Vietnam a decade before our country went to war there, so when I heard, over and over, French people criticizing our country for our Vietnam War I hated it. I viewed it as sour grapes. I refused to believe we could be doing anything wrong there.
It wasn't until I began to meet American servicemen who had been in Vietnam and had come to Paris as resisters that I realized I needed to learn more. I took every chance I could to meet with US soldiers. I talked with them and read the books they gave me about the war. I decided I needed to return to my country and join with them - active duty soldiers and Vietnam Veterans in particular - to try and end the war. I drove around the country visiting military bases, spending time in the G.I. coffee houses that had sprung up outside many bases - places where G.I.s could gather. I met with Army psychiatrists who were concerned about the type of training our men were receiving ... quite different, they said, from the trainings during WWII and Korea. The doctors felt this training was having a damaging effect on the psyches of the young men, effects they might not recover from. I raised money and hired a former Green Beret, Donald Duncan, to open and run the G.I. Office in Washington D.C. to try and get legal and congressional help for soldiers who were being denied their rights under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. I talked for hours with US pilots about their training, and what they were told about Vietnam. I met with the wives of servicemen. I visited V.A. hospitals. Later in 1978, wanting to share with other Americans some of what I had learned about the experiences of returning soldiers and their families, I made the movie Coming Home. I was the one who would be asked to speak at large anti-war rallies to tell people that the men in uniform were not the enemy, that they did not start the war, that they were, in growing numbers our allies. I knew as much about military law as any layperson. I knew more than most civilians about the realities on the ground for men in combat. I lived and breathed this stuff for two years before I went to North Vietnam. I cared deeply for the men and boys who had been put in harm's way. I wanted to stop the killing and bring our servicemen home. I was infuriated as I learned just how much our soldiers were being lied to about why we were fighting in Vietnam and I was anguished each time I would be with a young man who was traumatized by his experiences. Some boys shook constantly and were unable to speak above a whisper.
It is unconscionable that extremist groups circulate letters which accuse me of horrific things, saying that I am a traitor, that POWs in Hanoi were tied up and in chains and marched past me while I spat at them and called them 'baby killers.' These letters also say that when the POWs were brought into the room for a meeting I had with them, we shook hands and they passed me tiny slips of paper on which they had written their social security numbers. Supposedly, this was so that I could bring back proof to the US military that they were alive. The story goes on to say that I handed these slips of paper over to the North Vietnamese guards and, as a result, at least one of the men was tortured to death. That these stories could be given credence shows how little people know of the realities in North Vietnam prisons at the time. The US government and the POW families didn't need me to tell them who the prisoners were. They had all their names. Moreover, according to even the most hardcore senior officers, torture stopped late in 1969, two and a half years before I got there. And, most importantly, I would never say such things to our servicemen, whom I respect, whether or not I agree with the mission they have been sent to perform, which is not of their choosing.
But these lies have circulated for almost 40 years, continually reopening the wound of the Vietnam War and causing pain to families of American servicemen. The lies distort the truth of why I went to North Vietnam and they perpetuate the myth that being anti-war means being anti-soldier.
Little known is the fact that almost 300 Americans - journalists, diplomats, peace activists, professors, religious leaders and Vietnam Veterans themselves - had been traveling to North Vietnam over a number of years in an effort to try and find ways to end the war. (By the way, those trips generated little if any media attention.) I brought with me to Hanoi a thick package of letters from families of POWs. Since 1969, mail for the POWs had been brought in and out of North Vietnam every month by American visitors. The Committee of Liaison With Families coordinated this effort. I took the letters to the POWs and brought a packet of letters from them back to their families.
Here is the link to the petition to stand with Jane.
To read the full post, please go to janefonda.com.
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I imagine you think the brave soldiers who won our independence in the Revolutionary War, and the heroes who won the Civil War and put an end to slavery, and the Greatest Generation who gave their all to defeat Nazism and Fascism were losers? Yes, war is ugly, but we would be infinitely worse off if our forefathers had gone at it with your attitude.
I find that people who resort to name calling, as in "imbecile" are usually the least educated. Dear John, I encourage you to read more from diverse opinions. As Howard Zinn, the great historian and one of my heroes, pointed out: Europe ended slavery without a civil war. Think about it......wasn't it over 600,000 killed in the Civil War? We all need to think more independently. Not just accept the rubbish that allows justification for killing more and more innocent people in war.
No, the Civil War was not needed to end slavery!!!!!!
You obviously have never experienced the reality that war leaves a scar on everyone who experiences it first hand, which all the hollywood talk about "heroism" won't clear away. As a matter of fact, many veterans I've known who've experienced serious combat are sickened by that whole image and everything that comes with it.
Many of the first protesters of Vietnam were WWII veterans who knew what they were talking about, only to have their patriotism questioned for going against the politicians and profiteers who supported the war. The same thing happened again going in to Oil War II in 2003. The fact is that the right will always insult the patriotism of anyone who stands in the way of its agenda.
Right -- like "treasonous" Jane Fonda did! Did you even read the article?
The emancipation proclamation only freed the slaves in the rebel states. Don't believe it then read it. I'm sure you can Google it. The largest slave trading port in the US after the war was in Rhode Island same as before the war. There is apparently a lot of misinformation about the causes and effects of the civil war so I guess its true that the victors write the history books.
The labor-shortage engendered by the end of slavery, though, was necessary for unionization, and McCormick's Miracle Machines, AKA the "Agricultural Revolution"!
If it's not too cliche, and you have the money to spare, "Read All About It"!
http://www.amazon.com/Sugar-Industry-Abolition-Slave-1775-1810/dp/081302742X
The local library won't stock it, this is WAY too controversial for them!
To paraphrase: "If any ask why we died, tell them because our fathers lied."
Saying soldiers always lose is not the same as saying they are losers. It means they suffer and die. War has been carried out for those who profit the most, not for ideals worth fighting for. As I said, if you had learned serious history, you would understand the reasons for even the War Between the States.
You are NOT an "ex-lib." You are the same rethuglibagger under a different post. A regular viewer of Faux Nooz, as well. Your rhetoric is boring. Be off with you! Go hop aboard the "S.S. Murdoch" and sink with it!
WOW
You must realize, Robert, D Peach "has been assimilated." Lies = truth, and truth=lies, his/her mind.
You should put down that copy of Southern Partisan and recognize the unvarnished truth: a small number of wealthy white plantation owners in the south gulled poor whites into fighting and dying for their continued prosperity, which included the owning of slaves. There would have been no devastation in the south had not these wealthy men decided to secede to protect their economic interests; certainly Lincoln had no desire to start a war and said so. In a situation similar to the Vietnam War, some soldiers may have been heroic in the field, but the cause itself was unjust, illegal, and without moral imperative.
Highly unlikely, RSJ. These "faux news fools" only read what "Vannity," "Bill-O the clown," "Limbum," and "Little Rupert" tells them to.
XLIB, it is sad that you assume the writer meant soldiers were "losers" when what s/he actually wrote was that "war is always a no win situation for soldiers." These statements are NOT the same. Most psychologically healthy people who experience combat and its horrors are NOT the same afterward. Only sociopaths remain unaffected by the traumas of war. In that sense, war IS always a no win situation for soldiers, whether or not the cause was just.
I believe you are looking at War as strictly winning and losing through the eyes of pure nationalism. I perceive the "no win situation" quote quite differently. Everyone loses in War based purely on its barbarity at a humanistic level.
Yes the U.S. defeated the NAZIS. Overtly a good thing for us. It was, arguably, necesarry. But this is not the philosophical point.
Case example-my now deceased father lost two brothers in WW II. Heroes in their home town? I suppose. But what of the family? My father, for example, was not a well man emotionally for his adult life.
My Uncle's(my Mom's brother)ship in the South Pacific (WW II)was blown up. He was not a well man after the War (states he was "lost" for 10 years afterward.)Was he a winner? Were their families winners? Is a nation (or the world) a winner when murder and mayhem continues due to nationalistic and economic matters?
"Ours is not to ask why,
Ours is to do and die"
Sort of sums up the GI's losing situation.
First of all, I served in Vietnam War back in 1968-69 and I consider Jane Fonda my friend and admire her for what she is and what she did to bring a sense of justice and credibility to a nation basking in ignorance, arrogance racism and confusion during that era. She is a true American patriot and one of the most talented American beauty unmatched in the world. That is something the right wing conservative propagandists will never achieved!
She had more raw courage than you and me put together, let alone the right wing conservative warmongers, war profiteers and when most of them avoided the war by deserting it like GW Bush, multiple draft dodgers like Cheney, Rumfled, Rove and just about everyone who served in the Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan and the GWH and GWB Administrations !
She was, is, and will always be a humanist who believe in fair play, fair justice and truth. Truth is something the Right will never accept.
In all, she was a bright star in a dark night and something special in our heart to many of those who fought and died needlessly for a war that was based on profiteering, political corruption and lies.
She is exacty what we need now!
I hate what happened in Vietnam. I hate that good people were drafted to fight in a war that served no purpose. I'm glad, however, that good people like you were there to witness, first hand, what was going on, and to remind the rest of this country about reality.
Thank you for not losing sight of who you are to accomplish someone else's political aims.
did anyone actually read Fonda's article? Todays troops are young mena and women who are prisoners of the econmonic draft. What does it matter if you can't feed your kids, or house them or make a living wage? They are part and parcal of the grouwing internal colonney of America and have already been devalued to the max. I have nothing but love and compasssion for our soldiers, and respect.
You inadvertently made Ms. Fonda's case for her with your own distortion.
You need to read the book "War Is A Lie".
The cause doesn't matter -- the fact is that no soldier I've known (and I've known many) and certainly no historic member of my family felt that they were "winners" because they were in war. I also very much doubt I could find one that thinks (or thought) that war was other than a no-win situation.
Yes, we are free because of the founders and the soldiers who fought - and died. Was his death a winning situation for my many times great grandfather? How about for his wife and children? How about for those British teenage boys he had to kill? Their families?
War is sacrifice and horror - and to believe it to be anything else dishonors the bravery and willingness of those who fight our wars to make certain that we are free.
War is a no win situation. That doesn't mean that sometimes it isn't necessary - and its necessity doesn't mean it is anything other than being no win for the soldiers.
Regards,
Reyn
I can find no reference to CASI by Googling it. Do you mean CACI-a mercenary defense company that was started during the Vietnam war? If I were you I wouldn't brag about your father being a pilot in "The Secret War." All they did was kill at least a half million peasants by dropping 3 million tons of bombs and napalm and then leave the Hmong behind to face the retribution for what the U.S./CIA did. If your father worked for CACI let me remind you that they were sued for torture during interrogations at Abu Ghraib. What is "Our Side?" If what I just recounted is "Our Side" I don't know who would want to be on it unless they are a sociopath.
Hell, you sound more like a war mongering wanna-be rambo hero and most likely the first one to cut and run at the first sound gun fire!
Yeah, we know your type. The Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld type!
Since you are such a hater of Jane Fonda and a supporter of the Vietnam and Laotian wars maybe you can explain something to me since my husband got killed there. Why were we there?
http://janefonda.com/the-truth-about-my-trip-to-hanoi/
Do the work of finding the truth of those times and the follow up is the work that interested citizens wanting to spread THAT truth to the ignorant of today.
The ones spreading today's viruses are far more sophisticated that the "Old School" were.
In this e-mail mia culpa, to crudely try to reestablish her reputation, all Ms Fonda needed to do is state /swear/vow the entire prisoner scene is fictional and that she would never participate in such a sham.
But she did not. She dodged. She blamed prisoners' ignorance (The U.S. government had all their names;"torture stopped in '69)")
She perpetuated the claim. She's lying...again. This is not as disgraceful as the prisoners' claim, but it is right up there.)
Quoting
Ask the people of Norway what they think of right-wing propaganda.
Wow. This is really amazing! "Right-wing" propaganda? I do not identify with the perpetrator/s of the horrible events in Norway. This is not in any way a representation of my conservative (what you apparently call "right-wing")views, though that seems to be your interpretation. Your mind is made up. That is unfortunate. I guess this is what the LEFT does to achieve its objectives?
Apparently, you haven't heard the same talk the latest right-wing (deal with it) psychopath was using to justify his mass murder? You haven't heard rallies going on in this very country filled with people shouting the exact language he used? THAT is amazing!
How do you feel about right-wing views of Muslims in America? What do you think of the right-wing views of unions in this country? Either you agree with other right-wingers, or maybe you're not as "conservative" as you think you are.
If anything should have been said by Ms. Fonda, all it should have been is a simple: "Reports of my visiting POWs in Vietnam are inaccurate and ridiculous."
Trying to justify her actions with claims "They (US Govt) had all their names; and "Torture stopped in late 1969" are extremely weak and without reasonable merit.
The bottom line is this e-mail mia culpa by Ms Fonda only served to further document her unbelievable, anti-American, behavior in Vietnam.
That she is getting an Award is ridiculous and that she is trying to justify her actions underscore that fact.
Apparently it is, "Granny."
Posing with an ENEMY gun and "pretending" to shoot down American planes is just as bad taste as "pretending" to operate Nazi Death Ovens or fire AK rifles at Americans, and for about the same reasons!
It's important to note, she HAS NEVER apologized, she just blamed her actions on "youth", and hoped we'd all forget--until she brought it up AGAIN!
I also asked, "why". Why were they killing Americans? Could it be because Americans invaded their country? I personally believe the North was in the wrong, because I'm against the philosophy of communism. Then again, Vietnam is not my country, nor is a civil war in that country any of my business, especially, considering that our government invaded to stifle the will of the people.
When you compare Vietnam to WWII you're being dishonest. We were fighting for our own survival in WWII. Vietnam was fighting for its survival during our invasion of it.
I don't see anything for her to apologize about, other than the fact that her actions were twisted in a way that had no relationship to what actually happened.
I would say the "enemy" was the faction of the U.S. government that perpetrated a war to prevent a democracy and that did so, against the wishes of the majority of Americans at home.
Republicans are shooting themselves in the foot with their negativity nearly every day... Let 'em go. They eat their own anyway. Ho'oponopono, Jane - you are loved by the ones that count.
Truth sayers very often get the raw end of the deal and Jane Fonda is truth sayer.
'And the truth shall set you free."
We invaded their country! The Gulf of Tonkin incident, used to justify the landing of US troops, was a lie! It never happened! It was all a great shining lie! 56,000 American dead. Over 3 million Asian dead in Viet Nam, Cambodia and Laos. More bombs dropped than all sides in both theaters in WW II! The intentional, systematic application of dioxin, (Agent Orange), on the forests of Southeast Asia, the greatest environmental crime in history! All of it so American war profiteers could make coffin-loads of money trying out new tools and methods of war. All of it based on lies, lies that continue to this day! The Vietnamese were not our enemies. But we sure were theirs!
Ho's mistake (like that of the Arabs in WWI) was to believe Western promises that, when the Allies were victorious, they'd be rewarded with a free and independent Vietnamese/Palestinian state.
No such luck!
The British and French imperialists have much to explain and admit.
What an appropriate time to discuss this!
I am firmly convinced that the powers that be saw what happened when they actually allowed students to be educated and how they were affected by journalistic freedom. And they won't make those mistakes again.
I'm from Texas and we have the most reactionary textbooks in the country. Science and history are outlawed. You only need to know what the morons on the SBOE can agree to. Vietnam is why you have to "teach to the test" (cause there is only one right answer! No Discussion!! and all journalists have to be embedded with the troops so all we get are the official government stories. We're in the "no fact zone."
Doesn't help, of course, that the book is less than a quarter-inch thick!
The truth is that it is "the military industrial, CONGRESSIONAL" complex Was that what Ike said in his farewell address?? Certainly the congress is guilty as hell. They want to keep the wars going because weapons are produced in their districts, so to hell with "the American people" as they love to proclaim.
IT IS ALL ABOUT MONEY.
Thank you for the absolute truth and what appears to be a much needed history lesson for a lot of people here. Ho Chi Minh absolutely believed in the American constitution and Bill of Rights and thought that WE believed that "All men are created equal." He did offer many times to collaborate with us but, as you say, we didn't believe that he and his people were equal so we supported the French and returned his country to colonial status (or tried to.) That was Vietnam.
All wars are begun as economic enterprises, period! The aggressor ALWAYS does it for economic reasons. Why would any young man or woman want to provide additional income, raw material or territory to another rich person or corporation? Think about it! Why would you give up life, or limb or your sanity to profit some greedy sack of $%&+?
As in all wars I don't believe we knew the truth about Vietnam, then....or now.
History is filled with war hawks, those who are personally never in harm's way but will gladly send the sons and daughters of their countrymen to do the "job" while they fill their pocketbooks with the bloody profits of war.
Mr. Levy's comment above, "Fonda was 'swift boated' long before Kerry" is the best contemporary summary I've seen of this sad page in US history.
Expectedly her contributions will be still angering the new breed of neo cons in the US.
I hope Americans will not take another 40 years to understand her. People like her and Joan Baez are diamonds in a pig stye.
How many Americans KNOW, the U.S. supplied Ho with everything he needed to combat the Japanese and rescue the downed U.S. fliers ?
How many Americans KNOW, Ho believed the U.S. would support him in the League Of Nations (pre U.N.) in his efforts to kick the French out and self determination ?
How many Americans KNOW their country STABBED old Ho in the back, handed Vietnam back to the French after WW 2, and the murdering French increased their rate of murdering the Vietnamese ?
Clearly, even today after 40 years, there's still a hell of a lot, Americans are ignorant of their Govt's complicity in their murderous rampage thru an innocent country.
Talk about War Crimes, what the U.S. did in Vietnam was one MAJOR WAR CRIME.
And I'm a Vietnam vet. 69-70
Also, while we're at it, Jane Fonda was a "sympathizer" of the troops. Many of the troops were against the war as well. I guess our government should have shot them too, right?
What is it about America that you hate the most? The fact that many Americans suffer from the delusion that they are free to think for themselves and actually challenge our government?
And again we see the devastation of millions of innocents in those war torn countries.
War should be a last choice, too often it is not.
The reason Fonda is again denying these stories is that the right-wingers are at it again. They are the lying traitors.
Chuck Baldwin said he'd close the border and MEANT it, and was never heard again. Thoroughly disillusioned, he went from a Presidential candidate to a preacher.
I don't like that Kerry was swiftboated, but he inflated his own credentials, too, so...Would saying "SOMETIMES Two Wrongs DO Make A Right" be too cliche?
Think of it: If I tell you right now, "I'm a Vietnam Vet", then you'd look up my age, and feel so disgusted about being lied to, you'd never believe a damn thing I tell you ever again, past, present, or future!
I know "everyone inflates credentials" on resumes, but that still doesn't make it right nor trustworthy!
It's good that you gave us some insight into why you make your comments. Just as I expected, they're nothing more than thinly veiled partisan attacks against anyone deemed too liberal to fit your requirements. You'd HATE my veteran relatives, just like you hate many of the veterans who've commented on this thread.
That's ok. We know where you stand. Keep towing the party line!!!!
I, myself was surprised and angered to a relucntness to respond on the accusations those swiftboaters hurled at him.
The outcome of the election were the results of not defending himself.
War destroys families. So for me war is personal. I learned to look beneath the lies and propaganda fostered on us by corporate media and the Chickenhawks in Washington.
I thought we’d learned the lessons of Vietnam but we have not. Americans now turn a blind eye to our illegal immoral imperial wars and allow the slaughter of thousands of civilians fought by the few for the benefit of Halliburton, KBR and other corporations.
Many Americans glorify war. This is because they have never served, never had any experience with it. As for you Ms. Fonda, I have always admired you and your bravery. You are an American patriot and I honor your service.
Is it a failure of democracy if in fact a majority of the people do crave their material comforts, or fear for them in the continuing globalization, that they sincerely, if erroneously, embrace the rhetoric and policies of exceptionalism, triumphalism, fear and, at the fringe, a critical role in a coming apocalypse? It is a failure of mind and spirit but not of democracy when all it means is we have been outvoted after being out-Foxed. The virtues of democracy unfortunately do not include virtue itself nor does it endow its citizens with any special collective intelligence. It was a pure democracy that condemned Socrates to death.
I am still waiting for a clear and valid explanation that justifies our invasion of Vietnam. And Iraq.
OK, IO, do nothing, and see where that gets you!
You're the one suggesting we should have shot Jane Fonda for speaking her mind and posing for a picture.
Isn't THAT the perfect definition of "political correctness"?
I'm not mentioning "Political Correctness", I never called her racist (In fact, a few other posters here called the SOLDIERS racist!)
I'm talking about acting like it's fun to be an enemy soldier. Great! Be an enemy, see how far that gets you!
She has never APOLOGIZED, even this rambling article is not an apology, it MIGHT be a defense of her actions, but it's so meandering, I can't tell. She only brings it up again to bury it, usually just before she's about to star in a movie she wants people to see, like "Monster-in-Law"?
Well let me ask, why did we invade Iraq? Why are we still there? Why did we invade Afghanistan? Why are we still there? Why didn't we invade Saudi Arabia? Why are they one of our closest allies? Why don't we invade all countries with ruthless dictators, but no oil?
Obviously, you completely missed it. Obviously, you didn't bother to look.
Supposedly Afghanistan has trillions in mineral wealth, but while we weren't paying attention, which is most of the time, they have signed a contract with the Chinese to mine gigantic finds of copper and other minerals.
Our success in the "hearts and minds" operation is about as successful as it was in Vietnam.
I agree with everything you said in this last post and I LOVE surrealpolitik! That's the best description of our foreign policy delusions I've ever heard.
I did want to mention though that all our madness since the CIA's overthrow of Salvador Allende's democratically elected government in Chile has been accompanied by right-wing Chicago School of Economics, Milton Freidman directed attacks on the people of every country through the destruction and privatization of their economies and thus, the destruction of their communities. It is usually implemented by violence, imprisonment, torture and murder as in Chile, Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, etc. It's part of surrealpolitik.
The Iraq and Afghanistan wars probably would have gone a lot differently if we still had the draft. I suspect they would've ended long before this.
Ho Chi Minh wanted a united country, under Communism so our leaders, subscribers of the domino theory, believed that if Vietnam fell to Communism so would surrounding countries.
Jane Fonda and hundreds of thousands of anti-war protestors wanted us out since the war (police action) was nothing like WWII. The protestors were always against the war, NOT against the troops! The right winged extremists, who perpetuate these hateful lies, are the same ilk as the anti-John Kerry swiftboat liars. Studies reveal that overall, the conservatives tend towards out-right lying much more than liberals. Many right-winger politicians live hypocritical double lives, lambasting others!
In everything else all of what Ms. Fonda has said here rings true to what I know and experienced. Its a bit late, but about time she speak out.I
made my own trip to South Vietnam and would have gone to the North if I had had the opportunity. Viet Nam was always a losing war for the United States, even some of our leaders (notably McNamara) of that era acknowledged this well after the fact.
I started to serve Viet Era Veterans in the early 1970's in response to our despicable treatment of our returning soldiers and continue toserve veterans damaged by that war.
And, ALL who stand up and say so, will be discredited. That's the way the U.S. military-industrial complex has decided to handle it. IF ever enough U.S. citizens stand up to this barbarian complex THEN they will bring out the guns, in the sanctimonious name of "freedom!"
leaders and inching towards the eventual mistaken war we were lured into. We should all remember the military lied to our then President Johnson to get us involved and Nixon who replaced him expanded the conflict to other countries but later did the right thing and got the hell out like the French before us. I say leave Jane Fonda alone, she loves America more than most of her critics.
I am sorry for her, that she still has to fight her right to stand up against destruction. March on Jane, we love and admire you!
It was not acceptable by my Faith supposedly yet I saw them not Marching to Stop. I joined the Marches against the government to get our friends and Family back. I marched a long time, cried more.
Then they started coming home. Most of my friends were ill both physically and mentally drained. Most are not with me as they ended their lives. Most for not being able to accept Friendly Fire. They could not reason the Military defrag.
Others nightmares could not go away of smell of burning bodies be they enemy or the women and children left behind. They took to drugs, and alcohol.
Many married my friends. My friends had families and then came home to pieces in their homes, blood splatter on the walls.
Children they were not prepared to give explanations of why Daddy was not there anymore.
Jane a product of her own ego, apology? I do not believe as she married Turner and he is not a hero, he is a Corporate User who takes. Ask the Buffalo
I'm no expert on Ted Turner but he did give $1 BILLION to the United Nations. He seems to be one who wants to further the cause of peace in the way he knows best.
The photos of "hanoi jane" mock shooting against our troops was probably done simply to appease and loosen up the "enemy" and make them see that she was against the war. It was a visual way that they could understand she was not an enemy to them. Lighten up and see it for what it was. What would you have done in that situation, started a knife fight? Really?
A lot of talk about wars long gone by proving I suppose that the meaning of any struggle depends on who's defining it. In retrospect Vietnam, defined by our government one way, many of our young people another and the Vietnamese their own way, seems to have been essentially a war of national liberation just as they said. The Vietnamese have a long history of strong national feeling and have fought invaders and/or occupiers for their independence from the Mongols, the Chinese, the French, the Japanese, the French again and then us until finally they succeeded.
Now we have a trading relationship with them, which we could have had before over 50,000 or our people died and several million of theirs.
Next time politicians blather about winning the war, we need to ask winning what exactly?
That's the way the government was able to silence her. She's in hr 70's. It's time she puts her story into history, or someone else with write some false version and pass it off as history. Look at how the political candidates are trying to re-write history with their lack of knowledge about it and then people who know nothing of history believe it.
In her day, she was among our finest actresses, her performance in "Klute" being a sterling example. Even in some clinkers, her talent shone through. "Coming Home", which she was instrumental in getting produced, was perhaps the only positive portrayal of American soldiers of the period, showing them as decent men caught in a moral quagmire. Serious films I mean, not Rambo silliness. Brando's crazed renegade commander in Apocalypse Now, the PTSD ravaged soldier with a compulsion for Russian Roulette in "Deer Hunter," and many more show us as demoralized wrecks. Her film, in which her performance was sensitive and convincing, showed the cost and the continuing victimization of the returning vets in VA hospitals and suggested a full life for those paralyzed in combat.
Finally the organization for resisters of which she was a part, provided the disillusioned and unwilling a means to halt the war. Please see documentary "Sir! No Sir!" for particulars.
Would've been a lot less controversial and done just as much good, if not more!
My brother was also a Vietnam vet. My dad was a WWII vet and my uncle is a retired major who was a Vietnam and Korea vet. We ALL have the credentials to speak our mind here. Most of us are Americans.
Most enlisted men back then knew that Vietnam was total B.S. Only a few of the dense ones (mostly from the South in my experience) were in denial, at first anyway, about the B.S. of Vietnam.
Jane Fonda seems to me to be despised by the mostly 'paper patriots'. E.g. the American Legion, seems to be down on her and the American Legions to which I have been are thinly veiled fascists, mostly populated by the REMFs (look it up) or those wanting to use the flag for business. Oh yeah, use the flag for business is a definition of a fascist.
Eff-them, Jane Fonda was right then and they were wrong. That is objective fact and THAT is why they really hate her. She had and has bigger cajones than they did/do.
It seems to me that the most hawkish people amoung us don't bother serve. Just look at our current congress. None of the previous administration who started the current wars bothered to serve and none of their kids bother serve. Why is that? It is the hawks who are still hating on Jane Fonda. Why is that?
This same American reactionary mindset (google WWII icon General Curtis LeMay) would have invaded Cuba and/or dropped nukes on that tiny island in a heartbeat, if JFK had not stood his heroic ground between blind reactionary nationalism and likely nuclear annihilation.
Fonda should've avoided the anti-aircraft gun photo-op...it sent the wrong message, and she appears sincerely contrite about that error in judgment. Her larger purpose, however, was heroic in itself, especially after the horrors of the MLK and RFK assassinations, the TET Offensive, the Chicago riots, Kent State, the D.C. sit-ins and so many other political upheavals of the time.
I served in the Air Force for 4 years during the Viet Nam era. I resisted efforts to re-enlist me, and after discharge, protested against the war many times. It was a monstrous tragedy.
Our own Government prevents our soldiers from fighting to win. From not giving enough ammo to substandard Armor, to punishing them when they actually hurt terrorists!
(I'm not making this up, 3 SEALS were hauled up on inflated charges for punching a terrorist leader in the face to silence him!)
So apparently, Fonda POSED with the enemy, but our leaders might have some secret deals with the enemy!
We are now in two ground wars, which I do not and never did support. The 9-11 hijackers were Saudis and we invade Iraq and Afghanistan?
We are in a air to ground war which I do support in Libya.
War seems to enrich a certain class of people, i.e. the industrialist rich, bankers, and lobbiest just for a start.
We should be looking for a way to get out of this horrible mess that many Presidents, past and present, and many members of Congress, past and present, have put us in.
We now have a government for the government, by the government that protects the government and the rich that bought it no matter what the cost in lives or human suffering. They, the government and its owners are fully insulated and protected from us poor dumb voters. Then those same bastards in power screw us, the little people that pay for it.
We, little people, are just like the proverbial mushroom, kept in the dark and fed horse pucky.
I have had just a glimpse of real power in high places, I don't like what I saw..
I didn't have to go, but I vowed I never would, and I had to expend much effort and resources to avoid it, but I wouldn't let our government kill me for nothing. And because of Jane Fonda, whom I defended any number of times, many American lives were saved... and futures lived.
Unfortunately, Ms. Fonda chose to again "speak out" during Iraq and while she did no damage, she was completely wrong. I'll never forget what she did for her country, but it's tainted a bit now.
Nevertheless, thank you, Jane Fonda,from the bottom of my heart. My life was irrevocably altered by trying to avoid the war I never had to fight, and I really never recovered. But at least I lived a life, had a reasonable amount of happiness, and am here to talk about it... and I'm as conservative as they come.
Those who have spoken out against you just do not understand ...
It is their loss ... and a real shame that you have been made to suffer so wrongly.
Your compassion and empathy scares the hell out of those who have none.
Do you entertain the thoughts that the north Vietnamese might possibly have made the trek over here to attack the U.S.? Was our government's assertion of the enemy worth 4 million lives there and 50,000 lives of the U.S. military?
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