RSN Fundraising Banner
FB Share
Email This Page
add comment

Intro: "Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) today wrote to fellow members of Congress that NATO's role in the war in Libya would not shield Americans from the costs of the war. Kucinich's letter responded to the announcement by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton that NATO would take over command of the no-fly zone in Libya. In his letter, Kucinich pointed to United States' dominant role in the funding of NATO and called for Members to support his amendment which would eliminate US funds for the military intervention in Libya."

Congressman Dennis Kucinich responds to NATO taking over command of the no-fly zone in Libya. (photo: Mark Wilson/Getty Images)
Congressman Dennis Kucinich responds to NATO taking over command of the no-fly zone in Libya. (photo: Mark Wilson/Getty Images)

NATO War Still a Bad Deal

By Rep. Dennis Kucinich, Reader Supported News

26 March 11

RSN Special Coverage: Egypt's Struggle for Democracy


ongressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) today wrote to fellow members of Congress that NATO's role in the war in Libya would not shield Americans from the costs of the war. Kucinich's letter responded to the announcement by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton that NATO would take over command of the no-fly zone in Libya. In his letter, Kucinich pointed to United States' dominant role in the funding of NATO and called for Members to support his amendment which would eliminate US funds for the military intervention in Libya.

The full text of the letter follows:

Libyan War on Deep Discount Is Still not a Good Deal;
Under NATO, United States Will Bear the Costs of War

Dear Colleague,

Last night, Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton announced that the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) has agreed to take over responsibility for the military intervention taking place in Libya. The announcement does little to change the realities of the situation.

  1. According to the Congressional Research Service, the United States funds approximately 25% of NATO's budget. The US, France and Britain collectively account for about 43% of NATO's budget collectively. These three nations have large influence over the actions that NATO takes. Handing control of the no-fly zone to NATO is only a cost-sharing plan to pay for the war, but we will still be paying for it. Even at a discount, another war in another Muslim nation, with no end in sight, is simply not a good deal for the American people.

  2. NATO has agreed to take over nothing more than the command of the established no-fly zone. If further military action is required, such as attacks on Qadaffi's ground forces or other targets, that responsibility will likely fall to the United States. Already we have seen the rebels in Libya fail to take advantage of the American enacted no-fly zone. Qadaffi forces continue their attacks.

  3. Even with NATO's support, the war in Libya has the potential to become a quagmire, in part because we entered into this conflict without clear goals. Already, military action has brought the eastern and western parts of Libya to a standoff. Is the goal to divide Libya? Is the goal to remove Muammar Qadaffi? Will we install a friendly regime? What if the country is destabilized to the point that extremist groups such as al-Qaeda are allowed to take root? How does this war end? When will this war end? How much will it cost American taxpayers? What is the impact on our already overstretched military?

  4. The President committed the US to military invention without consulting Congress, in clear subversion of Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, which gives only Congress the power to declare war. Congress must act to protect its Constitutional authority to decide whether our nation will go to war.

The war in Libya was a strategic and moral blunder. Please join me in cosponsoring an amendment to the next Continuing Resolution that would prevent any US funds from being used for the war in Libya or NATO's role in Libya.


Dennis J. Kucinich

Member of Congress your social media marketing partner


A note of caution regarding our comment sections:

For months a stream of media reports have warned of coordinated propaganda efforts targeting political websites based in the U.S., particularly in the run-up to the 2016 presidential election.

We too were alarmed at the patterns we were, and still are, seeing. It is clear that the provocateurs are far more savvy, disciplined, and purposeful than anything we have ever experienced before.

It is also clear that we still have elements of the same activity in our article discussion forums at this time.

We have hosted and encouraged reader expression since the turn of the century. The comments of our readers are the most vibrant, best-used interactive feature at Reader Supported News. Accordingly, we are strongly resistant to interrupting those services.

It is, however, important to note that in all likelihood hardened operatives are attempting to shape the dialog our community seeks to engage in.

Adapt and overcome.

Marc Ash
Founder, Reader Supported News

+18 # Activista 2011-03-26 18:32
eliminate US funds for the military intervention in Libya - eliminate US military - period. Get rid of AIPAC Clinton.
+3 # Rita Walpole Ague 2011-03-27 09:09
Quoting Activista:
eliminate US funds for the military intervention in Libya - eliminate US military - period. Get rid of AIPAC Clinton.

Costa Rica got rid of its military, and for years has been a ray of hope for the world, with care and education for all its people, and so much more. How proud they can and should be of their country -something I am able to say about only one of the countries in which I hold citizenships, Republic of Ireland.

I'm ashamed to be an American.
-1 # KittatinyHawk 2011-03-27 18:07
Leave, and please take the GOP with ya
+3 # Rita Walpole Ague 2011-03-27 09:18
Costa Rica, years ago, abolished its military, and instead provided very good care and education, etc. for all its poeple How proud Costa Ricans can and should be of their country.

Sorry, but hold pride in only one of the countries in which I hold citizenship - Ireland. As far as this villianaire ruled, military/indust rial/corporate complex taken over second country in which I have citizenship, I'm honestly...

+2 # Zack 2011-03-27 09:57
For the liberals: would you have preferred 100,000 deaths in Libya, as we stood by and did nothing?

For the conservatives: Market responses suggest the "no-fly" effort had a stabilizing effect. If our actions further democracy, and the market supports the action, what is your rationale against this effort?

Everyone seems to want to low gas prices, low taxes, democracy for all, and peace, yet no one seems willing to accept the fact that these things come at a cost. Liberals and conservatives need to grow up.
+6 # Oligarch 23 2011-03-27 17:33
Au contrair mon frere, you do not understand the game plan! First we made millions selling arms to Quadafi-now we make millions by bombing him. Poeple don't matter to us-money does! Do you think there is a smidgeon of real humanitarian concern in our policy for the past 40 or so years? We armed Ho Chi Minh-check out the photos and see who was standing beside him the day he declared independence Sept 4, 1945-where do you think all those arms we had stockpiled for the invasion of Japan went? Did the good fairy take them away? As long as you continue to think within the parameters we have laid down for you, we will continue to benefit at the cost of the whole world's misery! Oligarchs Rule!
+28 # jon 2011-03-26 22:36
Dennis Kucinich is one of the LAST of the VERY FEW real Americans left in Congress.

Would to God that the rest of his peers had not been bought into prostitution of their corporate pay-masters!
-20 # Nominae 2011-03-26 22:37
@activista - How about we avoid throwing out the baby with the bathwater? As an Isolationist nation, we did not own much of a standing military on Dec 7, 1941 either. By the time we hastily built one up, we came perilously close to losing WWII. Do you enjoy speaking English as a first language? I know I do. The situation now is likewise a bit too involved for simple "all-or-nothing " solutions that amount to little more than cotton candy for the emotional body.
+11 # rf 2011-03-27 05:47
Are you kidding! We came close to loseing wwII? Right...they were at our shores ready to invade...what a load of crap! The Germans had neither the resources or the manpower to go into Russia and the US. This is just pay for the army should be ashamed!
+35 # DIAMONDMARGE 2011-03-26 22:53
God bless Dennis Kucinich. I gave money to, worked for, and voted for him both times he ran for the Presidency. If Dennis were in the WH, we wouldn't be in Libya. He is a man of peace, and has been promoting the Department of Peace as a cabinet department for ages. Contribute to his staying in Congress, because we need a man w/ his ethics, morals, courage, and intelligence... .
-12 # banichi 2011-03-26 22:57
Kucinich is still grandstanding for his re=election and little else. Where was he when Gaddhafi's forces were killing the rebels who had little to fight with or training? Where was his outrage at killing of innocent women and children? Unlike Iraq, or Afghanistan, where we went to 'fight terror' (which is a recipe for never-ending funding of the MIC) this one is really about helping people who are getting decimated by a brutal dictator as they try to free themselves. For once, as long as we are careful not to get involved on the ground as an invader, we can generate some good will from the people who live there.

I oppose any deeper involvement, but the only thing Obama has done wrong - so far - is how long he had to wait to get the U.N. to approve the no-fly zone.

If it is a matter of funding, and nothing else, why not take the funding from Iraq and Afghanistan? It would be better spent on Libya than on pretending to search for terrorists in countries where we have already screwed up so badly we can't easily get out. I'm just waiting for the next delay in the pullout there. And I'm not holding my breath on our leaving Iraq for a long time.

So let's do a good turn several times over, Mr. Kucinich - take money from the wars we can't win to spend on supporting people who actually want us to help them.
+8 # Gary Ray Pierson 2011-03-27 05:31
"So let's do a good turn several times over, Mr. Kucinich - take money from the wars we can't win to spend on supporting people who actually want us to help them."
I hit the thumbs down on your comment but man.. I think I should've hit the thumbs up instead... Take money from wars we can't win... Damn good idea.. But do we need Cheney's or Bush's permissions? Will they send mercs for us?? If we do.. Cpl.Pierson 101st Vietnam
+8 # rf 2011-03-27 05:51
In a complicit country, there are no innocents. In war people get killed, including women and children, no matter what great cause you're fighting for. The only way to get true political change in a country like Libya is for the people of Libya to demand it and then take it themselves. When people get good and sick of killing each other, the moronic tribal bonds drop and a modern nation is created...not with this easy way out.
+11 # genierae 2011-03-27 09:46
Banichi: Dennis Kucinich is a very compassionate man, but he knows that we can't continue intervening in the Middle East. Haven't we done enough damage? Yes, the threatened massacre of Libyan rebels needed a swift response, but let the Arab countries take care of their own neighborhood. They have full power to unite as one force and deal with madmen like Kaddaffi, but as long as we show up to do it, they will let us. After all, this will save them a load of money. In this 21st century we need to bring all of our troops home and put them to work rebuilding what's left of our country. We have caused enough misery abroad.

rf: If you judge a "modern nation" by the lack of tribalism, then you can't include the USA. White tribalism has caused immense grief here and around the world. And if you think that those Americans who have protested Bush's wars from before they even started, are still "complicit" simply because they are Americans, you need to think again.
+2 # KittatinyHawk 2011-03-27 18:18
They had no weapons, in a Country like Libya with a Dictator like G. These people asked for help. I believe as a human that is what we are supposed to do, but when the same Allies who helped us for centuries ask for help, we go.
It was not a War, it was not even a 'Police Action'. When good people are called upon, we stand up and do what we need to do. Congress didnot get credit for starting another sad. But every GOP with partnerships in Oil Companies are so glad we went.
When we need help with attitudes like too many ... we will be alone.
+9 # Tee 2011-03-26 23:04
This intervention into the affairs of another country is purely a Zionist, corporate, military sponsored attempted coup of the sovereing state of Libya.

This is also gross hypocrisy. There are presently at least a dozen states who are experiencing humanitarian problem. Most of them don't possess Libya's oil.

This is trully an impeachable offense.
+6 # Nominae 2011-03-27 00:06
The problem is not the military, obviously, but the way in which the military is used. We should not be in any of the "elective" wars that we now prosecute. However, blaming the military for the decisions of those who control the military is like blaming our National Highway Death Toll on the automobiles we drive.
+11 # abdullahiedward 2011-03-27 00:38
Anyone who thinks that the Libyan "revolution" that started in Benghazi was not a covert op initiated by the CIA has got another think coming!!!!
+9 # Realist 2011-03-27 03:06
We are already involved in an unwinnable war in Afghanistan. Our national debt (mostly to China) is out of control. The interest alone is in the billions. Our young people who patriotically enlisted in our armed forces are being sacrificed for no reason. Obama has overstepped our Constitution which places the responsibility of declaring war on the House of Representatives . I voted for the man, but never again. He has overstepped his authority, and put more of our young people in danger. It wan't happen, but this is a ground for impeachment.
+2 # Anarchist 23 2011-03-27 17:38
You are so right-and let's also get the Bush Cheney bunch and the SCOTUS judges who overstepped their bounds. And the Banksters who took the economy down the Rabbit Hole. If we are looking for purity, there is a whole lot of s#@t we need to clean out of the corridors of power and influence
-7 # James38 2011-03-27 03:42
Kucinich is probably right about 60% of the times, but this isn't one of them. This is isolationist nonsense, ignoring the humanitarian necessity of acting quickly to help the rebels. Kadoofy is a murderous monster, and should be put on trial for crimes against humanity. Obama and Sarkozy and the other leaders, with UN backing, have managed to act just barely in time. There is no honor in backing away from an opportunity like this one, and especially no honor in backing away because you are afraid of spending some money. We are saving lives, and clearly using military force in the service of good for once. Kucinich and the rest of those who are criticizing Obama and the other countries and leaders who are managing to do the right thing are showing themselves to be lost in selfishness and short-sightedne ss. Try to think how you would feel if you lived in Libya? Would you support Gadoofy? Or would you be rebelling and being extremely grateful for the help you would be getting? We need to keep it up until Gadoofus has to leave the country, or is captured and brought to trial. We (Nato, all courageous leaders) can do this with little more cost than some money. Doesn't doing the humanitarian thing for once feel pretty good? We are preventing another Sarajevo, deposing another Pol Pot before he manages to massacre thousands more.
+10 # Observer 47 2011-03-27 08:51
Do you REALLY think we're intervening to "help the rebels"? If that were the case, we would have been focusing on Libyan ground forces, not air forces. Nope, this is another manufactured excuse to get the oil. Wake up!
+1 # KittatinyHawk 2011-03-27 18:27
If we didnot with NATO use the Air Strikes the Rebels and others would have been Killed. Yes, this is about oil, since the Crusades we have been killing for one reason or another in middle East. Ever Played Risk..well there is a really big game going on for centuries!
Yes we should be in a dozen other countries, but we were called to help here. UN is supposed to go into other Countries to use their Armed Services to uphold whatever, complain to them.

We should not be in any other Country but when push comes to shove and we ned help...we will stand alone if we do not help others.

whether any of the Countries who Are in this Strike force has egg on their face is a flip of the coin. I am glad we hit them hard, now perhaps the "Military can do its job, get its work done and get Taliban but they are in Texas!"
+1 # Anarchist 23 2011-03-27 17:41
You sir, are a man of quality thought-could I interest you in buying a bridge in Brooklyn? Need I remind you that we sold Kadafi millions of dollars in arms? That by destabilizing what was once Indo-China with our war, we helped to create Pol Pot?
+11 # Bernard 2011-03-27 04:41
See how this war's defenders move the goalposts? First it was protecting innocent civilians. Then it was protecting poor outgunned rebels. Then it moves on to wrecking Libyan government forces from the air so that said rebels can make a comeback. Next it will be Regime Change (which was the plan all along). Why? Because the imperial powers would rather see a country run by Al-Qaeda or drug lords than by anyone who dares call himself a socialist. Happened in Afghanistan and Yugoslavia, and is going to happen in Libya too. And that's just for starters, now the "humanitarian intervention" door has been jemmied open in the UN. What a pack of hypocrites and murderers.
-10 # tomb215 2011-03-27 07:40
There is no way our nation can get involved with another skirmish anywhere. Congress has the power to override what Obama and Clinton has done. They also have the power to impeach Obama for violation of the Constitution. I would like to see Congress man-up and do their job for once. Obama had no right doing what he did, Congress can correct this. Do your job, fill your boots Congress. If your not going to impeach Obama for his wrong doings then at lease ties his hands so he can’t do any more damage. And while you’re at it GROUND HIM AND HIS DAMN PLANE AND THE MISUSE OF OUR TAX DOLLARS FOR FAMILY VACATIONS!!
+1 # Anarchist 23 2011-03-27 17:44
And no doubt you had the same principaled stand when Bush did the same? Or Reagan and his mighty invasion of Grenada? clionton and the bombing of Bosnia? Viet Nam? Or is it only Obama you object to? You have come late to this long war for the sould of the country if so!
+11 # Perajica 2011-03-27 07:44
Life in Libya under Gaddafi:

1. Electricity for household use is free,
...2. interest-free loans during the study,
3. receives the average salary for this profession if you do not find a job after graduation,
...4. the state has paid for to work in the profession,
5. Every unemployed person receives social assistance 15,000 $ a year,
6. after the entry into marriage state pays first apartment or house (150m2),
7. ... See more buying cars at factory prices,
8. do not owe anyone a cent,
9. free health and education,
10. free higher education abroad,
11. 25% of highly educated,
12. 40 loaves of bread costs $ 0.15,
13. water in the middle of the desert, drinking water,
14. 8 dinars per liter of oil (0.08 EUR),
15. 6% poor,
16. For each infant, the couple received $ 5,000 for his needs.
+5 # Activista 2011-03-27 09:30
To these facts NYT, WSJ propaganda does NOT have access.
Also Libya was feeding thousands workers from poor countries. Hungry will go to Europe / put to Sarkozy concentration camps.
Stories of UN ships "evacuating" refugees = shipping them back to Bangladesh - people drowning to try to swim to EU ... this is censored.
+1 # Siamodiversi 2011-03-31 17:46
Dear Perajica, I do not know if your information is correct. But if it is, Libya under Gaddafi is better than many countries in Africa, South America, and southern Asia.
+8 # Buckles 2011-03-27 08:31
America should sell all the necessary war tools to NATO and pull out. We have given them enough equiptment already, now sell it and leave. Out Of Bush's bungled Iraqi war now. Bring troops home from bases that are our allies.
+3 # Gary Ray Pierson 2011-03-27 10:35
Quoting Buckles:
America should sell all the necessary war tools to NATO and pull out. We have given them enough equiptment already, now sell it and leave. Out Of Bush's bungled Iraqi war now. Bring troops home from bases that are our allies.

You got the right name to blame for every thing on from 1963 until now.. And his fathers stunt in 1943, but got away because the guy testifying against him had a sudden heart attack. Then Prescott Bush won being a Senator back east, no mention of his part with the Nazi's.. We brought em home to build rockets and germ warfare. Fun stuff.. No I can't tell Nazis and Americans apart.. Except for the few Americans here. God Bless ya for speaking up. Cpl. Pierson 101st, Vietnam, Son of the American Revolution, Pvt. Shadrack Pierson, 1st Virginia, Valley Forge.. I salute my fellow Brothers... And Glen. ^i^
+1 # Glen 2011-03-27 14:36
And I honor you, Gary Ray Pierson, with respect for knowledge and experience.
+16 # Glen 2011-03-27 08:38
Interesting how many long long years the world has been interfering in the Middle East. There is always a reason. Once the action has been taken there is then always an excuse to blame those who suffered from the invasions/chang es/restructurin g/destroying/pu tting brutish leaders into place, etc. People of the Middle East have been shuffled according to the wishes of military powers, in favor of those powers having military bases, oil, resources, treasures, control.

We all know that. What is new is that powerful countries make no bones about which country has value to them and which do not. Citizens are simply a side issue. The U.S. government lies about every issue having to do with military actions, with no shame, and does not care about the opinions of their own citizens. Libya is simply the most recent country in a long line of attacks. Yes, they have oil. Oil and a location that benefits U.S. interests. If they cared about Libyan citizens they would not be bombing the country, including citizens, probably back to the stone age - all over again.
+5 # Activista 2011-03-27 09:22
it is all about oil - QARTAR - one of the "liberators" will sell OIL for terrorists ..
""As they move round the coast, of course, the rebels will increasingly control the exit points of Libya's oil," British Defense Secretary Liam Fox told the BBC. "That will produce a very dynamic and a very different equilibrium inside Libya. ...

Qatar, which has conducted at least one sortie over Libya, is the only Arab country known to have actively joined with the international force. It wasn't clear how the agreement to market oil would be carried out.
+1 # wfalco 2011-03-27 10:49
Here we go with the negative ratings..Oh well. I too agree with Kucinich almost completely regarding foreign and domestic policy. But not this time.
It seems to me (and apparently most readers here disagree) that the U.S. is finally on the right side.
This is not a corporate backed manipulation of foreign policy. I realize Libya has lots of the gewey stuff but that does not appear to be the dominant issue.
The maniacal dictator of Libya has vowed to slaughter his people. These revolutionary heroes have asked for and received necessary help to prevent mass murder-although a bit slowly. They have had some recent success in re-gaining some territory previously lost.
At heart I am radically non-interventio nist-however-th is is different and most of you refuse to look at reality. You are blinded by radical-chic Anti-Obamaism.
My dream would be for the U.S. to withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan immediately. That is where our moral compass and money has been lost.
The Middle East is undergoing a domino affect of revolution. If we can assist one group of revolutionaries perhaps the direction of this change can finally sway positively in our direction.
+1 # Activista 2011-03-27 11:20
"These revolutionary heroes have asked for and received necessary help to prevent mass murder" or commit mass murderer?
the same cliches as in Iraq and Afghanistan - starting civil war - the same NECON tricks - these "revolutionary heroes" are TERRORISTS from other - east - tribe.
After QATAR (our "friend") and BP will lay the hands on OIL - the country will be divided in two (Against wishes of African Congress) -
US Bombs Libya, Helps ... Jihadists?!
it is tribal war with Al-Kaida extremist part of "revolutionary heroes" - goal is/was to get control of the OIL ...
-2 # wfalco 2011-03-27 16:05
[quote name="Activista "]the same cliches as in Iraq and Afghanistan - starting civil war - the same NECON tricks - these "revolutionary heroes" are TERRORISTS from other - east - tribe.

This is nothing like Iraq and Afghanistan. This is directly related to the uprisings that began in Tunisia, Bahrain, Yemen, and Egypt.
It began as a peaceful protest- and there is no Al Quada in Libya.(Who sounds like the neo-con now?)
As in the other Middle Eastern uprisings it began as peaceful protests in the streets. Unlike the others your anti-hero (apparently to some on this site) decided to ruthlessly gun down the innocents on the streets. This revolution has nothing to do with "terrorists" but the simple request for some semblance of democracy. I admit I wasn't quite aware of the social safey net that Perajica writes about. However, it seems that this is not difficult in a society of what?-6-7 million? A country that can rake in billions in oil profits. With such a sparse population it is not difficult for the anti-hero to throw a few scraps to the peasants. Of course his intent is to prevent such an uprising. I never bought the theory of a "benevolent" dictator. To me a dictatorship is a dictatorship-be it of the socialists or oligarchs. Power to the people of the Middle East! Fight on!
+2 # KittatinyHawk 2011-03-27 19:08
If these people live so wel, than why so much poverty? They have no mass food, live simply. Most of the people have lived day to day. I do not believe Libya to be the Eden as put on here. I have not heard that with those who came here.
Media being what they are do not seem to have taken an oath to tell us how people live elsewhere. But I have yet to see any country without poverty. Chavez gives to his people also, there is poverty.
We went in, people died they do everywhere there are damn weapons being used. I believe that the Allies should have gotten weapons in or the Arab countries but no one did. When UN finally got around to this, we did what had to be done, Rebels were losing, family, friends, everyone was threatened to be tortured and killed.
Other Countries, UN gets to as they can. No good but they are not a Universal Army. UN walks a fine line of protection and being bullies. We were close, we had the air force there and ships, we went and helped the 'rebels' I pray this doesnot bite all of us, but GOP backed many dictators, sold them arms...Obama just beat them into action that GOP Congress wanted credit for.
-2 # KittatinyHawk 2011-03-27 18:58
Military Intelligence and we still do not have the Taliban extinct?
I love people who hate this country...Leave ! Otherwise, they should get up and do something.
When we bring all these people home, where do they go? School? Funds being cut. Jobs? at what terrorizing workers? Taking out street gangs?
We get ourselves into messes and no one here or in Government has solutions.

I just know no laws were broken as there was no declaration of war. Allies asked us for help, we helped. I do agree we must see that the NATO expands and all share equally the Membership Fees.
+6 # craferr 2011-03-27 11:26
Mr Kucinich, as always right on. This country is already being bankrupt, jobless, largely as a result of our huge direct and indirect military exdpenditure, thousands of military bases, 2 wars going into more, homeland security, spending billions to subvert regimes that dont do our bidding, eg Iran, billions on propaganda, billions on increased medical expenses and pensions on those and their families injured or killed in the war, probably in the order of trillions anually to support the military/indust rial/special interest complex empires to control the land and resources of the developing countries and the Middle East. In all liklihood a no fly zone wont be the end, the revolution will go on as a result of our intervention, deaths will continue to mount, the infrastracture of these countries will become destroyed, there will be nothing produced, no food, no clothing, and the next step will be introduction of ground troops, costs to try to right things will be astronomic, bankrupcy of this country will progress, with further loss of jobs, frank depression, people rioting in the streets here, and so on. We are already teetering at the brink.
+3 # Activista 2011-03-27 12:39
yes - we are bankrupt - like Soviet Union 20 years ago due to military spending.
And I do not see any way out - except the regime collapse. Some CCCP patterns are already here - California does not have money to pay teachers.
See also the same neocon patterns in Libya as in Iraq and Afghanistan.
+1 # Oligarch 23 2011-03-27 17:48
Actually CA would have money to pay teachers if the Right Wing had not destroyed a lot of the tax base. And now we Oligarchs have made off with most of your money-and your children's future. But anyone who suggest that we rich should have our taxes raised-oh the horror! Think fo war as any other social institution-gua ranteeing future jobs!
+3 # craferr 2011-03-27 11:40
Compared to a few years ago, so many of these comments are right on target. Clearly these individuals know that you cant listen to the special interest/milita ry propaganda in the US TV media. A media expert said about year 2000 that the biggest change in the TV media over the last 40 years is the ability to control public opinion. You look at the pattern of what is being reported and you can see the lies, then look elsewhere and you will see the truth/ Perijaca's facts of a high standard of living in particular suggests that the revolution is not an internal creation but an external one.
Thanks to RSN
+2 # Nominae 2011-03-27 12:27
@ rf The Germans split the Atom in 1939. The Germans had the V-2 Rocket program that could, and did, deliver conventional warheads that struck London during the Blitz. We entered the War in late 1941. We had no Navy to speak of, Rosie the Riveter had to get busy building us one up in the Shipyards in Bremerton WA and other places. We were taking a shellacking in the Pacific for the first two years of the WWII. In other words, we spent the first two years of the war trying to build up a military and to catch up to German technology. We spent the last two years defeating the Axis. While you are engaged in passing out self righteous assignments of "shame", you might take a moment to soak up some actual history.
+1 # craferr 2011-03-27 22:06
"While you are engaged in passing out self righteous assignments of "shame", you might take a moment to soak up some actual history".
Not sure who you referring to. I know a fair amount about history and other things as well. WW11 was a battle against a powerful adversary, Germany and her allies, and was a consequence of WW1 caused by Germany beating Britan in Trade. Blair destroyed the evidence of how the US was suckered into WW1with the set-up sinking of the Lusitania.
We should be focusing on Lybia here which is a completely different situation. Please refer to Perijica's comments above, showing that the Lybian people have been very well treated with material goods. In that case, it is very unlikely that the rioting has been created and organized by outsiders. The media are showing well fed people rioting in the streets, and so we are having our foreign policy dictated by the media. We still dont know who is funding, activating these people. This isnt about self righteousness or shame. Its about knowing what you are doing before doing it, know who is behind these revolts, and dont let yourself be suckered into what may well prove to be a prolonged ground war because that is what our business, special interest controlled media wants. Land and profit. Angela Merkel, Putin, and Medyev, and probably Obama all have the same opinion.
+1 # craferr 2011-03-27 22:32
correction to my 20:06 post. Ninth line should read In that case, it is very likely ...... (not unlikely )
-2 # ganymede 2011-03-27 17:15
I love Dennis Kucenich and have helped support him in the past, but I think he is wrong in this case. Rarely has our country done anything positive when we've 'intervened' in other countries. By instituting the no-fly zone we've saved thousands of lives. Yes, it's about oil, but it's also about a real revolution that's finally happening in the Middle East. Whatever social programs Ghadaffi was offering his people he is a murderous maniac and it appears that the vasy majority of Libyans want him out. I'm as left as they come, but the left also suffers from ideological rigidity. It's hard to predict what's going to happen in Libya, but I think Ghadaffi will be out in a very short time and, for once, the people that we've helped will show their appreciation for what we've done by not letting their revolution be taken over by extremists. The times they are a-changing.
+1 # KittatinyHawk 2011-03-27 19:16
We didnot call the No fly Zone. but it was a good way to get the Rebels back on their feet. they had said they would fight until they were dead. Doesnot give us the right to allow their families, friends, to die mercilessly to prove a point. However, Military loves killing just to kill no matter whose. UK was jumping at the bit to get in there and wipe the dictator out, using nice words than what I have read on Eu newspapers. Blood thirsty lot..wish they would do the job of getting the Bin Laden crew. If there is such a crew.
If this is a good revolution, if the middle east are tired of dictators, poverty good for them. They will have to live with what they do, we cannot do that for them.
Now we need to start some psychology outposts to help the kids that are sand crazy and told to torture and kill for the Military. I believe that the commanding Officers must be held accountable as these are not Wars. I do not know what will happen when these kids come home to no jobs. government taking jobs, education away. But we better be prepared...the Military is desensitizing our children, we will pay for that. I see it already from the other imbecilic police actions. Anger not management. good post
+1 # RICHARDKANEpa 2011-03-27 19:59
Anyone remember the glum around the world that followed about a year after the Tienanmen Square massacre in China, when it was realized that that massacre cemented the Chinese leadership’s control over the country. Egyptian euphoria is a beckon to trying to make a better world. Libya almost became a warning that you better not try.

Google “The People United Can Always be exterminated”
that is if the mind one’s own business crowd stops help from the at least somewhat more tolerant nations, against those who engage is systematic carnage,
+2 # Gary in Midwest 2011-03-28 00:17
So let me get this straight -- we're dropping tons of bombs and missiles on human beings we don't know in order to prevent the killing of other human beings whom we don't know either. What a joke! Why don't the spin masters just say we want to fleece the American taxpayer any chance we get and be honest about it?
+1 # todd williams 2011-03-28 07:13
Did anyone mention the fact that only 2% of the world's oil comes from this stinking desert? How about the US and Euro countries that have been propping up this tinhorn dictator for years? How about the $1 billion in money he extorted from these same companies to pay for the Pan Am airline bombing victims? I'm firmly convinced this NATO action is NOT over oil. Rather, I think, this is an attempt to save lives and also to scare the crap out of other Mideast dictators. And as to this nonsense of impeaching Obama, ridiculous. This president is the best thing for our country, even if he is not perfect. I hate fairweather liberals. Why do you think the Repugs win? it's called divide and conquer. You people are foolish.
+1 # craferr 2011-03-28 09:22
Pan American bombing may well have been a false flag set up to impose sanctions.
This is a problem in our democracy. Though critical things have been disclosed to the public, they dont know about them. From old Guardian News
"Nearly two decades after Pan Am flight 103 exploded over Scotland on 21 December, 1988, allegations of international political intrigue and shoddy investigative work are being levelled at the British government, the FBI and the Scottish police as one of the crucial witnesses, Swiss engineer Ulrich Lumpert, has apparently confessed that he lied about the origins of a crucial 'timer' - evidence that helped tie the man convicted of the bombing to the crime" Why no further investigation?
Also, Lybia may have huge oil reserves.
Lybia natiionalized oil, like Saddam did.
Agree Obama prob best option, he is trying middle ground to compromise with repubs.
+1 # craferr 2011-04-02 12:55
Dear Mr. Kucinich. I would first like to say that I agree with you on virtually every issue that has come up. I think your level of honesty, integrity and concern is something which is sorely missed in Congress.
The issue here is Lybia. There is a report in a Chinese "Asia Times Online" which tells many facts about the Lybian attack which have been silenced in the western media. In particular, the organized, armed group of "civilians" who are revolting, was agitated, organized, paid, financed, provided with weapons, and trained by the House of Saud, French Intelligence, and the CIA. So the presidents Obama and Sarkozi are not telling the truth to their people. There are many articles of interest in this source, the facts in this case are from " theres no business like war business" by Pepe Escobar. the site address is
You are probably also aware that Khadaffi has provided many material benefits to his people with the oil income, and that he may have been set up with Lockerbee so he could be branded a terrorist, planning for current events. There was perjury, and alleged cia tampering with evidence reported at that trial documented by a law professor Black in Scotland.

THE NEW STREAMLINED RSN LOGIN PROCESS: Register once, then login and you are ready to comment. All you need is a Username and a Password of your choosing and you are free to comment whenever you like! Welcome to the Reader Supported News community.