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writing for godot

HOW NOT TO OVERTURN CITIZENS UNITED

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Written by Leonard R. Jaffee   
Tuesday, 24 June 2014 06:51
Copyright � 2014
Leonard R. Jaffee
Professor of Law Emeritus
all rights reserved

U.S. Senators Testor & Murphy & House Members McGovern, Pingree, Capuano, Cohen, Cicilline, Farre, DeFazio, and Lee have introduced a Joint Resolution proposing this federal Constitution amendment:

"Section 1. We the people who ordain and establish this Constitution intend the rights protected by this Constitution to be the rights of natural persons.

"Section 2. The words people, person, or citizen as used in this Constitution do not include corporations, limited liability companies or other corporate entities established by the laws of any State, the United States, or any foreign state, and such corporate entities are subject to such regulation as the people, through their elected State and Federal representatives, deem reasonable and are otherwise consistent with the powers of Congress and the States under this Constitution.

"Section 3. Nothing contained herein shall be construed to limit the people's rights of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, free exercise of religion, freedom of association and all such other rights of the people, which rights are unalienable."

The proposed amendment bears MANY, VITAL flaws. The worst are huge over-breadth & abysmal under-breadth. The amendment could not achieve its purpose, but would destroy much of our "Bill of Rights" & hurt, gravely, the "99%" the proponents seek to protect.

PART I: Section 1

The current "We the people" cannot "ordain and establish" the constitution. It was ordained & established in 1789.

Does the amendment intend to "ordain and establish" a NEW constitution? Not a silly question: The amendment would undo many constitution-provisions that protect us from the government's oppressing, overreaching, or transgressing against us.

How will Section 1 affect the constitution's provisions that either (a) limit government prerogative respecting private interests but do NOT provide "rights" or (b) bear terms that provide rights not limited to "natural persons"?

The 1st amendment includes this:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press...."

That language does NOT

(a) limit its compass to persons

(b) establish rights

(c) indicate entities ("natural" or other, individual or group) that may be entitled to the benefit or protection that language provides

Rather, the language does naught but limit Congress's power respecting religion, speech, and "the press."

Whatever "religion" may be or whoever or whatever may have or practice it, the 1st amendment's religion-terms prevent Congress's preferring or limiting religion or its exercise. THAT is ALL the religion terms do. They do NOT confer rights or protect "persons."

The 1st amendment's speech & press terms prohibit Congress's "abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press...." THAT is ALL the speech & press terms do. Those terms do NOT confer "rights" or protect "persons."

So, the proposed amendment's Section 1 CANNOT alter the field of entities the 1st amendment's religion, speech, or press terms protect.

Speech is a capacity not only of individuals, but also of GROUPS. The 1st amendment's free speech terms were designed primarily to protect political speech, which, the Founders apprehended, is vital to democracy. Just so, the 1st amendment says not only that "Congress shall make no law...abridging...the freedom of speech," but also that "Congress shall make no law...abridging...the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Political speech � political ANYTHING � involves more than one individual. Very often, effective political action requires that individuals act in groups, even groups concerted in some form of organized association, even an INCORPORATED association, like an incorporated political action organization, whose corporate form minimizes members' liability to encourage their pursuit of the political objectives for which the organization formed.

One can "peaceably...assemble" not only physically (as in a parade), but also by forming an association � even an incorporated "assemblage" � to bring greater weight to bear upon the government the organized individuals seek to petition for redress of grievances.

Just so, when (in 1789) the United States was established by its constitution, its citizens formed political parties.

So also, since 1943 � long before Citizens United � Americans have formed Political Action Committees ["PACS"]. Though not corporations, PACS are formed, connected intimately with, and much administered & funded by corporations, labor unions, trade associations, and other business entities. PACS pursue interests & political positions of business entities that form, sponsor, administer, and fund them � pursue such interests & positions with concerted action, its speech, even advocacy of candidates & socioeconomic policies.

First-amendment-protected group political speech or speech-rendering/petition-asserting assembly can include group speech/assembly seeking business-advantage or benefit of existing enterprise. Our government was established to pursue the �General Welfare� of the sea of individuals that compose the governed. Welfare is an economic matter � one of acquiring & securing wealth, not just distributing it.

The franchise is a means of seeking economic welfare. One may vote for candidates, initiatives, or referenda one thinks most likely to serve one's economic interests.

Just so, the 1st amendment protects our speaking, assembling, and petitioning to promote such candidates or measures. It protects our assembling to magnify such speech & petitioning � even by forming groups, even incorporated groups � that will engage in such speech or petitioning. The 1st amendment does not limit its protection, expressly or impliedly, to informal groups rather than corporate organizations.

Wealth & economic security are not just matters of money or property, but also sources of psychic well-being. STILL, psychic well-being is ultimately ECONOMIC.

If one cannot secure the necessities of subsistence, one will suffer physical or psychic illness or die early or torturously. One acquires wealth or economic security for both physical & psychic well-being. Well-being bears economic weight to which one can attribute monetary value � the money required to obtain a certain state of well-being or, E.G., money that courts award to �remedy� pain, suffering, or psychic distress.

Citizens OUGHT to be able to form legal entities to influence elections, government, and public policy. Such grouping renders much hope of fighting the untoward & disproportionate influence of the Koch brothers & other filthy rich, pathologically greedy people who seek to control government for their own, sick, antisocial ends. Such grouping gives ordinary folks not only greater political power, but also limitation of legal liability, mightily important when the enemy is the economically/legally rapacious 1%.

Small & mid-size business-firms OUGHT to be able to affect elections, government conduct, and public policy � to better the economic positions of their middle class investors & entrepreneurs. The General Welfare � the MIDDLE class's economic welfare � was one of the three principle objects of our 1789 constitution.

If the proposed amendment's Section 1 COULD deny corporations all 1st amendment protections, it would bar from much political process many thousands of small & middle-size business-firms that represent legitimate, relatively modest socioeconomic interests of members of the middle class.

Most newspapers & news-broadcasting radio & TV stations are owned by corporate entities. If the proposed amendment's Section 1 could deny such entities 1st amendment protections, it would abridge the freedom of the press near utterly.

But the proposed amendment does NOT reflect a concern that corporations are corrupting the nation's political processes. Rather, it reflects apprehension that mega-corporations � major oil & gas companies, huge banking & investment institutions, and other such monstrous business firms � and their filthy rich managements & investors are exerting immensely disproportionate influence on elections & the operations of government.

The problem is NOT the FORM of the influence's source. The problem is the magnitude of its greed & economic power.

Suppose Citizens United held that though the 1st amendment lets corporations make direct political contributions, no firm may contribute more than $80 TOTAL to any political party, candidate, or campaign. Would Progressives & "Liberals" oppose the decision? Though mega-corporations & their managements & investors are motivated by unbridled (even evil) greed, they could not pursue their motivation by corrupting political process if they could contribute only $80 TOTAL to any candidate, party, or campaign.

Citizens United did not only free corporations to make political donations. It accorded the same freedom to labor unions.

At least ostensibly, labor unions champion interests of working stiffs & the lower & middle classes. Yet the amendment's sponsors would deny INCORPORATED labor unions 1st amendment "rights."

But Citizens United interpreted the 1st amendment's free speech provision correctly. The proposed amendment's Section 1 COULD NOT alter THAT provision's scope.

The 1st amendment FREES individuals to form corporations pursuing wealth-acquisition or economic security by means of political speech, even by influencing the voting of others & by contributing to or promoting political campaigns. The proposed amendment's terms COULD NOT shrink or alter that FREEDOM.

[Section 1 bears other flaws. But the foregoing shows enough.]

PART II: Section 3

Section 3 states: "Nothing contained herein shall be construed to limit the people's rights of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, free exercise of religion, freedom of association & all such other rights of the people, which rights are unalienable."

One problem is the referent of "herein." Grammar-conventions indicate the referent is Section 3. The indication implies that Section 3 provides only that Section 3 shall not limit the "rights" the 1st amendment protects or any other "such" rights "of the people." If so, Section 3 does NOTHING.

Section 3 says it does not limit the "rights" it references. It does NOT say it does anything affecting anything other than SUCH "rights." So, it does NOTHING.

Section 3 makes its object, among else, "the people's rights of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, free exercise of religion, freedom of association...."

"The people" cannot have a right. Rights are held by (a) individuals, (b) particular groups of particular individuals, (c) legal or informal entities (corporations, labor unions, general or limited partnerships, PACS, co-operatives, unincorporated associations.......). "The people" is the body politic. No body politic can have a right.

If "freedom of speech" or "freedom of the press" is a right, it is NOT so because of the 1st amendment. Respecting speech & press, the 1st amendment prohibits Congress's enacting any abridgement. It does NOT accord a right � surely not a right of "the people." Whence, then, arise such "people's rights"?

Section 3 addresses a "freedom of religion." But it fails to reference (even implicitly) the 1st amendment's prohibition of Congress's enacting a law "respecting an establishment of religion."

Put aside, for argument's sake, the matter that the 1st amendment's anti-establishment terms do NOT create a right. Suppose (for argument's sake) they create a "right" of not suffering some effect of a law respecting an establishment of religion. Then one must ask: Is such anti-establishment "right" one of "such other rights of the people, which rights are unalienable"? If so, whence arise such "rights"?

Another trouble is the clause "which rights are inalienable." The clause is preceded by a comma set at the close of the phrase "and all such other rights of the people," the antecedent of which is an asserted set of "the people's rights" that are not "other" rights, but "rights" asserted as if clearly extant per some pre-existing source, which may not be a universe of the "inalienable," but some (written) law.

Does the clause "which rights are inalienable" modify the entirety of the rest of Section 3, so that the expressly enumerated "the people's rights" are ONLY "rights" occurring in a universe of inalienable "rights"? Where is that universe?

NO rights are "inalienable" � ever, anyhow. Rights are creatures of law. No right can occur, except provided by enforced law � even if the "law" is only an informal, oral, 2-party agreement that WILL be enforced by violence of the chief of an utterly isolated, 18-member band of primitive people unknown by other humans, of which band the agreeing parties are members.

All supposed "inalienable rights" are supposed "natural rights." Rights do not exist in nature. Name a right held by a mountain goat, cobra, river, or forest � OR a new-borne human raised solely by wolves.

Proper grammar holds that in the clause "which rights are inalienable" the term "which" functions as the NON-restrictive relative pronoun. Suspend fitting disbelief owed to the grave linguistic incompetence of Section 3 & the rest of the proposed amendment. Assume the amendment's drafter MEANT the non-restrictive.

Then the "which" clause references only "all such other rights" that are NOT "the people's rights" of "freedom of speech, freedom of the press, free exercise of religion, [and] freedom of association." So, THOSE enumerated "people's rights" must arise NOT from some universe of inalienable rights, but from law. But WHICH law? The law CANNOT be the 1st amendment � for reasons set above.

The language "the people's rights" is troublous not just vis-a-vis the 1st amendment, but also, similarly, vis-a-vis other provisions of the "Bill of Rights."

Example:

The 3rd amendment provides:

"No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law."

A house's owner can be a corporation. Do the proposed amendment's Sections 1 & 3 intend to repeal or alter materially the 3rd amendment?

Section 3 says "Nothing contained herein shall be construed to limit the...freedom of speech...." If Section 3's "freedom of speech" is not some impossible "inalienable right," but the freedom of speech provided by the 1st amendment, then the proposed amendment CANNOT overturn Citizens United.

The 1st amendment does NOT accord a "right" of free speech. It provides only that Congress may not abridge the freedom of speech. The provision may effect a privilege or immunity, but not a right.

Incorporated groups can speak. They have spoken under 1st amendment protection since the founding of our constitution. If Section 3 does not limit "freedom of speech" � 1st amendment "freedom of speech" � the proposed amendment does not limit freedom of speech of corporations.

[Section 3 bears other flaws. But the foregoing shows enough.]

PART III: Section 2

Section 2 says:

"The words people, person, or citizen as used in this Constitution do not include corporations, limited liability companies or other corporate entities established by the laws of any State, the United States, or any foreign state, and such corporate entities are subject to such regulation as the people, through their elected State and Federal representatives, deem reasonable and are otherwise consistent with the powers of Congress and the States under this Constitution."

SUB-PART A: Underbreadth

The term "or other corporate entities" (a) makes "limited liability companies" mean "corporate limited liability companies" & (b) limits Section 2's scope to incorporated entities. So, Section 2 could not apply to any of a near-infinite field of NON-incorporated NON-"natural-person" entities.

Such unincorporated-entity-field includes (but is not limited to) partnerships, unincorporated limited liability companies, unincorporated co-operatives, unincorporated joint-stock companies, unincorporated unions, and PACS. Incorporated entities can be partnership-members, managers or investors of unincorporated limited liability companies, members or managers of unincorporated co-operatives or joint-stock companies, administrators, sponsors, and financiers of PACS.

Section 2 seeks to apply to "corporate entities established by the laws of any State, the United States, or any foreign state." A vital Progressive concern is foreign or multinational corporate influence of U.S. political processes. But Section 2's terms could NOT preclude a foreign or multinational corporation's avoiding Section 2's limit by being a member of an unincorporated domestic entity.

Example:

Suppose a not-for-profit, non-incorporated association receives investment-funding from corporate business entities seeking to impair interests of the working class, the middle class, and the poor. The association's members are 15,000 very rich individuals & several huge, powerful domestic, multinational, and foreign corporations. The association gives money to candidates & office-holders who press government measures � anti-"99%" measures � the association's members & corporate investors desire.

Neither the amendment's Section 2 nor its Section 1 could deny the association �rights [or freedoms] protected by the Constitution� � in this case, free speech & rights of assembly & of petitioning government for redress of grievance. The association is not a corporate entity.

[Section 2 suffers many other underbreadth troubles. But this Sub-Part will not illumine more. Since many Section 2 overbreadth & overbreadth troubles overlap, the next Sub-Part will expose sundry other underbreadth troubles.]

SUB-PART B: Overbreadth

Surely, the amendment's motive is to overturn Citizens United. THAT object requires only a very narrow regulation of business-associations' political contributions.

Like the amendment's Sections 1 & 3, Section 2 could not attain that object, but would destroy many utile protections the constitution accords private corporations & other artificial entities. That effect would harm, grievously, the middle-&-lower-class masses the amendment's sponsors wish to protect.

The constitution accords associations sundry rights, protections, and freedoms other than freedoms of speech & press & rights of assembly & of petitioning government for redress of grievance. Among such other rights, protections, and freedoms are:

* 1st amendment religious freedom

* 4th amendment protections

* 5th & 6th amendment & parallel 14th amendment protections respecting criminal prosecution

* 7th amendment right of jury trial

* due process, equal protection, and anti-takings/just-compensation guarantees of the 5th & 14th amendments

Passage (1): Religious Freedom

Suppose an incorporated religious sect. It supports its sectarian activities with profit-making operations & with interest-bearing investments it makes in its members' small businesses. The profits & interest are invested in evangelical efforts. The evangelical efforts yield further profits.

The sect was established partly for the purpose of ministering to the sect's existing members & converting others into adoption of the sect's faith & inducing them to join the sect. But the sect was established also to earn income & to promote the for-profit businesses of its entrepreneurial members. So, its for-profit activities are not merely incidental to its religious design.

The sect lobbies government & contributes to campaigns of politicians who pursue policies that foster the sect's interests, even its for-profit activities. The sect advertises & publishes its belief that the Founders conceived the United States a Christian nation & intended that its public schools preach the Christian faith. Its members speak that message prolifically.

The 1st amendment's "freedom of religion" provision does not apply only to individual humans. It apples to religious sects, their memberships, their houses of worship, their organizations (like the Roman Catholic "Church" & its priests, nuns, monks, parishioners.......).

Religious organizations adopt corporate structure to secure limited liability to protect resources & avoid legal "persecution" (or costs of undue litigation) & also to be able to consolidate resources & maximize efficiency of resource acquisition/disposition, to aid the sect's & its organization's survival & wield greater influence. Our constitution's Founders expected so.

The United States Catholic Conference & the Presbyterian Church of the United States are corporations. So are most American Christian sects, large & small. The religious corporation was an entity well known in the England of 1620-1776, in the English Colonies of the same period, and in Post Revolutionary America & the America of 1787, when the Founders wrote & signed our constitution.

Whatever may be the contrary claims of U.S. religious corporations, they make profits, many ways, with business investments & real property holdings they lease-out for money-rent, and with other ventures. Most religious organizations lobby government, donate to politicians' war chests, engage in politicking during political campaigns & respecting initiatives & referenda........to advance their religious causes & their economic interests & those of their members or followers.

But, also, many such corporations do invaluable eleemosynary work. They operate charitable hospitals, shelter & feed the homeless.......

Some religious corporations � like the United States Catholic Conference & the Southern Baptist Convention � are mightily powerful & influence the nation's political processes immensely. Many press conservative, even ultra-conservative policies that � sometimes designedly, sometimes adventitiously � support the interests of for-profit mega-corporations.

Section 2 could not cause religious corporations direct denial of religious freedom. But it WOULD deny them several protections necessary to full realization of the religious freedom the Founders intended � protections (like the 4th amendment privacy-guaranty & several 5th & 14th amendment protections) available only to a "person" or "people." The denial would strike both the purely charitable, small, and humble & the giant, monstrously powerful, and greedy.

Now suppose a NON-incorporated religious sect. Though its core & principal aim is religious, it supports its sectarian activities with profit-making operations & with interest-bearing investments it makes in its members' small businesses. The profits & interest are invested in evangelical efforts. The evangelical efforts yield further profits.

The sect lobbies government & contributes to campaigns of politicians who pursue policies that foster the sect's interests, even its for-profit activities. The sect advertises & publishes its belief that the Founders conceived our country a Christian nation & intended that its public schools preach the Christian faith. Its members speak that message prolifically.

Neither Section 2 nor Section 1 would deny this sect ANY constitutional right, freedom, or protection � even if it were big & powerful as BP Petroleum, Bank of America, General Electric, and Monsanto and contributed to political parties, candidates, and campaigns thrice what those corporations contribute. The sect is not a corporate entity, but a host of "natural persons."

Passage (2): 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 14th Amendments

The 5th amendment's double jeopardy clause is not limited to cases involving possible capital or other corporal punishment. And the clause applies to prosecutions of corporations.

The 5th amendment does not privilege a corporation's document-custodian against being forced to produce the entity's subpoenaed records. STILL, as a legal entity can testify against itself through its officer or other high management employee, if an officer or high manager makes a statement after prosecution begins, the statement is inadmissible against THE ENTITY.

The due process clauses (5th & 14th amendments) apply to prosecutions � and civil trials � of corporations.

The 6th amendment says:

"In ALL criminal prosecutions, THE ACCUSED shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury..., and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence." [My emphases.]

The term �all� (�all criminal prosecutions�) makes the amendment apply to every kind of prosecution, SO to ANY kind of defendant. The term �the accused� (not �person�) reinforces such observation.

The terms �him� & "his" do not limit �the accused� to a human, just as they do not limit �the accused� to a male human: Even in 1789 & before, American criminal law involved prosecuted women and CORPORATIONS. Colonial & post-colonial 18th century America prosecuted corporations for criminal �nonfeasance� (failing to do a state-imposed public duty).

So, the 6th amendment protects corporate entities, not just humans.

The 7th amendment says:

"In Suits at common law, ..., the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be...re-examined...[other] than according to the rules of the common law."

That language does not supply rights to persons. Rather, it guarantees common-law-jury-trial process to ALL litigants, even corporations.

The 4th amendment provides:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

The clause "no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause" does not identify the kind(s) of entity the clause protects. So, the beneficiary-universe includes corporations. The term "things to be seized" allows that the "things" can be a corporate entity's.

So, courts have held that the 4th amendment protects a corporation from random inspection of its premises.

Corporations are entitled to (5th & 14th amendment) equal protection of the law.

The 5th amendment provides: �nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.� Those terms protect �private property� � NOT just private property of individuals.

Section 2 could not deny corporations the benefits the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 14th amendments accord NOT to a "person," "citizen," or "people," but to an �accused� or civil litigant or owner whose property is subjected to a taking, eminent domain, or warrantless search. But it would deny corporations the benefits those amendments give a "person," a "citizen," or "people."

OUGHT we deny corporations ANY benefits those amendments accord?

Do we want to be a nation that confiscates, arbitrarily, the property of private enterprise?

Do we want to deny entrepreneurs & investors due process & other protections essential to fairness & �ordered liberty�?

Do we want to deny entrepreneurs & investors fair trial process, fair investigative process, and fair treatment of privacy interests?

Do we want to deny corporate entities the protections we accord other private associations � though the former pursue economic interests EVERYONE shares?

Suppose a for-profit corporation NOT publicly held. All 18 shareholders are engaged actively in the conducting the firm's business.

The firm operates only in one, mid-size city. It distributes hardware. The shareholders are also the firm's officers, managers, accountant, buyers, sales-staff, customer-service employees, and delivery-personnel.

The firm's average annual gross profit is $3 million & net profit $1.8 million. The shareholders' average annual salary is $68,000. All dividends are distributed as pay-bonuses.

The firm does not contribute to political campaigns, promote candidates, or lobby legislators, executive officials, or government agencies. Some shareholders donate to political campaigns & causes or petition government � but only as individuals. The shareholder average annual political contribution is $76; some shareholders do not contribute to any campaign or cause.

Such corporations are common. They do not threaten the integrity of our democracy or diminish the virtue of anyone's voting rights.

Together with the proposed amendment's Section 1, Section 2 would deny every such entity most 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 14th amendment protections & rights.

Yet, the amendment would NOT deny ANY right or protection to partnerships, unincorporated limited liability companies, unincorporated co-operatives, unincorporated joint-stock companies, unincorporated unions, PACS, or thoroughly informal, non-entity associations (for-profit or not) � even where such organization's members, managers, investors, sponsors, financiers, or administrators are domestic, foreign, or multi-national mega-corporations.

Suppose individuals form a NON-incorporated, NON-entity association to conduct an enterprise. A federal prosecutor is convinced the enterprise is criminal. He prosecutes THE ASSOCIATION. The association, ITSELF, not just each individual member, may hold the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 14th amendment protections & rights a corporation holds respecting criminal prosecution.

Such association can have standing to sue not just for its members, but for itself. Such association can be sued.

If such association files a civil suit or is a defendant of a civil action, it will be entitled to the civil litigation rights & protections the constitution accords corporations.

Such association (ITSELF, not just its members) can suffer criminal prosecution. If such association is prosecuted, it will be entitled to the criminal-prosecution-related rights & protections the constitution accords corporations.

Such association can hold property. Such association can be entitled to 4th amendment protections, 5th & 14th amendment due process & equal protection, and 5th & 14th amendment just-compensation entitlement & anti-taking protection. If such association's property suffers either adverse legal action (E.G., criminal-law confiscation or judgment-lien) or extra-legal harm, THE ASSOCIATION, itself, may seek judicial relief.

Now suppose such association formed by 3 working-class folks impoverished by the economic crash of 2008. Unemployed for 2 years, they joined together to do internet-marketing of products they obtained �on consignment� � products they believed bore merit.

In 3 months, the association realized $16,200 ($1,800 per month per member). Its marketing consisted merely of repeating the products-manufacturers' claims. The claims were false.

A federal prosecutor alleges the association perpetrated 98 wire frauds that violated 18 US Code � 1343, which, together with 18 US Code � 3571, provides � for EACH wire fraud � a maximum fine of (a) $500,000 OR (b) twice the association's gross gain OR (c) the gross loss of the victim.

If convicted, the association could suffer a $49 million fine. The court could rule that all 3 members are liable for the association's fine, since all 3 controlled, equally, the association's conduct.

The proposed amendment's Section 2 would NOT deny the association 4th, 5th, or 6th amendment protections or rights. The association is not a corporate entity.

But suppose the association WERE incorporated. Section 2 WOULD deny the association most of those protections & rights.

The corporation would be tried & punished by a kangaroo court. Because the firm is non-publically-held & bears partnership-like structure, the prosecutor might "pierce the corporate veil" & charge that the innocent, faultlessly unemployed, impoverished, working-class members owe the fine. Since they could not pay, each could suffer a sentence of up to 960 years � up to 20 years per violation.

Now suppose a non-incorporated association that created & runs a free school & free hospital. The membership sympathizes with policies & endeavors of certain business corporations; it believes such policies & endeavors serve the �right� human welfare the �right� way. So, the association gives money to politicians who would have government facilitate such corporations' enterprises.

Section 2 could NOT deny the association constitutional rights, freedoms, or protections. Though its political donations may promote Big-Business, it is not a corporate entity.

But suppose the association WERE incorporated, even an incorporated labor union. Per Sections 2 & 1, it would lack most constitutional protections, freedoms, and rights. It could be prosecuted in a kangaroo court.

The proposed amendment bears other flaws & threats. But this text has shown you enough.

We need that the proposed amendment NOT be passed. We need, instead, a constitution-amendment that will do no more or less than bar ALL "persons" � human, corporate, or other � from using large sums of money to influence political process corruptly, disproportionately, or for purpose hostile to the General Welfare.

The problem is NOT the FORM of the influence's source � corporate, individual, non-incorporated association....... The problem is its motive & the magnitude of its economic power.

Tell your Senators & House-Member to oppose the proposed amendment.
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+189 # DPM 2013-02-16 11:46
Vive Warren!
 
 
+143 # MainStreetMentor 2013-02-16 13:39
 
 
+20 # Joe Bob 2013-02-16 20:49
Just in the Nick of Time.
 
 
+15 # RLF 2013-02-17 08:45
If these bankers had gotten their profits directly from selling drugs, the government could take all assets. Here is another consumer friendly opportunity to nationalize a criminal enterprise and then let them take it to court.
 
 
+13 # robcarter.vn 2013-02-16 20:21
Yes Good on her. I have been crying this cry for 2 years now, first year UK took their crooked banks to court and many settlements out of court for enough money to save UK from default and bankruptcy laughing at Euro troubles, not their UK problems. But same crimes in USA and their regulators said nought just stayed peaceful. Then Year 2 USA did some small settlements out of court for far less that real worth as proven in UK actions, and bigger settlements. I though perhaps even enough to avoid a fiscal cliff?.
Remember as OWS might say, and Wikipedia does sayt, Banks caused the Great Depression. Prof. Said also for 1829 depression so they executed him. USA banks coukld now petition GOP to move Elixabeth Warren to Gitmo? That may save your Bankers?
 
 
+170 # PABLO DIABLO 2013-02-16 11:53
Elizabeth Warren for President in 2016.
 
 
-10 # Scotty44 2013-02-16 15:38
You better find out what her positions are on other important issues - Iran, Palestine, war, the national debt possibly. She is great on financial crime, although I would have liked her to ask what the recidivism rate was on the agencies' "enforcement actions" just to point out their ineffectiveness .
 
 
+24 # WestWinds 2013-02-17 02:57
#Scotty44:
You ask good questions, but I asked them of her some months ago and her reply was that she would be just as strong and fearless with the other issues. I think team 99% may have finally found their team leader.
 
 
+171 # Barbara K 2013-02-16 11:55
Go get them Elizabeth. You can do it. If they can't behave and stop stealing from the citizens, see that they spend some time in jail. We have your back.

..
 
 
+191 # MEBrowning 2013-02-16 12:13
 
 
+144 # WestWinds 2013-02-16 12:25
Elizabeth Warren represents the TRUE America. She is an American hero and will bring back honesty, dignity and ethics to our country and our government. THIS is what true leadership is all about!
 
 
+14 # RLF 2013-02-17 08:48
Agreed! She shows the midAmerica horse sense that seems to have been forgotten out there.
 
 
+126 # ER444 2013-02-16 12:34
I live in germany and am originally from Maryland, and I donated three times to Elizabeth's campaign. She gives me hope that there is still something in America about which we can all be proud. BTW I also donated to Alan Grayson, am batting 1000!!
 
 
+16 # mdhome 2013-02-16 20:00
Two great wins for me also!
 
 
+101 # WestWinds 2013-02-16 12:21
Yaaaaayyyy!!!! Elizabeth Warren!!!!

Elizabeth Warren for President in 2016!!!!
 
 
+44 # Smokey 2013-02-16 13:24
Quoting WestWinds:
Yaaaaayyyy!!!! Elizabeth Warren!!!!

Elizabeth Warren for President in 2016!!!!


Wow! You heard it here first. Keep in mind that Obama quickly moved from Illinois politics to the White House.
 
 
+74 # socialismby2020 2013-02-16 12:28
Good Warren the bankers are scared of Warren because they sure aren't scared of Obama. Obama has kept all the main players that created the financial meltodown of 2008 in his cabinet and/or in the FED (Bernanke, Geitner, Paulson, Summers,Goldman , etc.) Obama received 5 times more campaign money from the big banks than McCain did. Obama is owned by Wall Street, yet the idiot TeaBaggers call hima socialist.
 
 
+75 # Wordslinger 2013-02-16 12:31
Screw the banks ... it's about time!
 
 
+13 # WestWinds 2013-02-17 03:00
I don't know about "screw" the banks, Wordslinger, but hold them accountable for all of their terrible behavior, absolutely.
 
 
+10 # goodsensecynic 2013-02-17 15:15
I've always wondered what "hold them accountable" means, if not gather the evidence, prosecute them and send them to jail. Their behaviour isn't "terrible"; it's criminal!

Or, will we be happy to let them express regret and then let them go back to business as usual.

So far, of course, they've gone back to business as usual and not shed a single crocodile tear.

On the other hand, I don't care much if some of these fraudsters go to the slammer or not. I don't even care much if they are somehow forced to pay restitution. What I want is for it never to happen again ... and that means real regulation - with Glass-Steagall being the MINIMUM.
 
 
+78 # reiverpacific 2013-02-16 12:42
Nice to know as I suspected, that Mrs Warren speaks the bankster Mafia's double-talk better than they do.
Wonder if she can get them doin' hard time and paying back some of their ill-gotten gains.
Suggest that the pillory be reinstated and line 'em up along Wall Street with rotten tomatoes or horse-shit before they begin their long trek to Abu Grahib.
Go after 'em and be as merciless as they have been and are, Eliza'!
 
 
+11 # mdhome 2013-02-16 20:02
one word for the banksters: rendition.
 
 
+11 # RLF 2013-02-17 08:51
The bankers certainly threaten the country more than most of the people we have been reditioning(sp) .
 
 
+86 # dhsbrenda 2013-02-16 12:53
I watch local officials fall for staff jargon and deflection of issues, and it makes me ill. Elizabeth is a breath of fresh air--and knowledge and ability.

That's all it takes to get through transparently wrong behavior to the core of what needs to be done.

I still send her what I can afford each month. Yes, we signed petitions to get her in the Senate, and we're going to do the same to make her President. No more inside cronyism and revolving doors. Power to the People.
 
 
+103 # Brooklyn Girl 2013-02-16 12:53
Comparing Elizabeth Warren, who deals with facts, with Ted Cruz, who deals with McCarthyesque innuendo, is ludicrous and insulting. That would be the false equivalency I have come to expect from the right, not from the left.

And if she does wind up having a few bankers indicted, the author's warning that some banks may go out of business is also ludicrous and insulting. Why shouldn't a criminal enterprise have to pay the price for its crimes? And there would certainly be plenty of other banks to take their place. I, for one, am not worried.
 
 
+13 # WestWinds 2013-02-17 03:03
I agree, Brooklyn Girl, this business about the banks collapsing is the paper tiger this rotten crowd of criminals want us to swallow so they can continue, undisturbed, with the fleecing of America. It's pure baloney!
 
 
+12 # Firefox11 2013-02-17 12:53
Nationalize banking, or at least create an alternative, Bank of the United States, just like we need an alternative to corporatized medicine.
 
 
+89 # gogogrl47 2013-02-16 12:58
Go Elizabeth!! Hate to say it, but maybe the women who got elected will "tell it like it is" and not be part of the "good ol' boys club". I live out of State and supported her heartily because I knew she wasn't afraid to speak out on ALL issues affecting us, the middle, working class people who made this country great. We are tired of the Congress and their antics!! Hope we have many more elected women speaking out!!
 
 
+30 # Nominae 2013-02-16 14:47
Quoting gogogrl47:
Go Elizabeth!! Hate to say it, but maybe the women who got elected will "tell it like it is" and not be part of the "good ol' boys club". I live out of State and supported her heartily because I knew she wasn't afraid to speak out on ALL issues affecting us, the middle, working class people who made this country great. We are tired of the Congress and their antics!! Hope we have many more elected women speaking out!!


She's a GEM because she's Elizabeth Warren. NOT because she's another carrier of the XX Chomosome.
 
 
+3 # RLF 2013-02-17 08:53
women are a mixed bag also...Nancy Pellosi with full on support of NDAA.
 
 
+83 # Working Class 2013-02-16 13:02
 
 
+19 # MichaelArchAngel 2013-02-16 13:03
Im one of those MEBrown is talking about!
 
 
+68 # grouchy 2013-02-16 13:08
Give'm hell Elizabeth. Send the deserving ones to prison. The rest have them demoted to teller. Get the banks to pay back all they stole. Regardless, we are putting you up for sainthood just for scaring the hell out of 'em!
 
 
+73 # imaginethat 2013-02-16 13:09
Yes, Elizabeth keep speaking the truth that you know. I am SO excited that you are knowledgeable and are so CLEAR with your understanding of the banking industry as well as their shenanigans. I wanted you in our government the first time I listened to you on Bill Moyers & Co! We have your back, indeed!
 
 
+53 # HerbR 2013-02-16 13:09
Vive Elizabeth ! Pour it on !!
 
 
+75 # artsci 2013-02-16 13:11
Let's hope the good Senator pushes hard to break up the big banks. Banks that are too big to fail or jail should be made small enough to fail and jail. Some of these bank execs are criminals, plain and simple. They're just criminals in custom-made suits.
 
 
+81 # M. de la Souche 2013-02-16 13:11
Dear lord, that was refreshing to watch! That is, up until the point that Mr. Tarullo manages to run out the clock with the usual long-winded obfuscation. It was not even a thinly-veiled attempt to answer Sen. Warren's question, merely a long string of words: no sound, no fury, but most assuredly signifying nothing. Sen. Warren, please do feel free to interrupt in the future when this occurs--this tactic, so common in hearings, needs to go away.
 
 
+24 # Vardoz 2013-02-16 13:19
From a Donor
We love her- she has more balls than most senators. If Corey Booker runs and gets in - that would also be a great addition.
 
 
+15 # Regina 2013-02-16 17:52
No, she's got BRAINS! The problem with a lot of men, notably those who seek overriding power (think about that doozy Cruz, and his forbear McCarthy), is that testosterone interferes with any cerebral functions they might have been born with. That's how come they just parrot the party line on every issue they face, and reject all reason and logic and evidence. And above all, they can't do simple arithmetic, particularly on the budget.
 
 
+42 # Beverly 2013-02-16 13:23
Refreshing to hear and watch is putting it lightly. Someone like
Elizabeth Warren has come along-- AT LAST -- someone who is fighting FOR THE PEOPLE!!!! BRAVO, and let's ALL SUPPORT HER TO THE ULTIMATE DEGREE!!!
I THANK YOU, Elizabeth Warren, and my hat is off to you, because speaking the TRUTH is not something we hear a lot these days!!! BRAVO and MORE THANKYOU'S!!
Beverly Smith
 
 
+40 # kalpal 2013-02-16 13:48
The guys who make a fabulous income out of fleecing the general public seem to be upset that a Senator thinks they should be spending a decade or two in a prison.
 
 
+42 # tclose 2013-02-16 13:50
As a member of the male gender, I have to express my admiration for women who are increasingly bring elected to Congress - Sen. Warren (how nice to use that title!) as a prime example. They tell it like it is, avoid obfuscation, and generally push for pragmatic and sensible policy. If more women were elected, both Democrat and Republican, we would I think solve many of the endemic problems we currently have with Congress.

Go for it, gals!
 
 
+21 # Nominae 2013-02-16 14:54
Quoting tclose:
As a member of the male gender, I have to express my admiration for women who are increasingly bring elected to Congress - Sen. Warren (how nice to use that title!) as a prime example. They tell it like it is, avoid obfuscation, and generally push for pragmatic and sensible policy. If more women were elected, both Democrat and Republican, we would I think solve many of the endemic problems we currently have with Congress.

Go for it, gals!


As a fellow member of the male gender, get real. We have no shortage of elected women to demonstrate the blindness of your position.

Elizabeth Warren is as GREAT as HUMANS come !

Voting for anyone based upon what's between their legs instead of what's between their ears is simply childish.
 
 
+16 # flippancy 2013-02-16 17:47
Last I checked Jan Brewer was a woman. So is Elizabeth Dole. Lots of rotten women in politics, but hooray for the Warrens and her ilk.
 
 
+25 # Penelope Jencks 2013-02-16 15:48
I'm not so sure gender enters into it... don't forget Michelle Bachman, Sarah Palin & other foolish women who spout as much hot air as the worst of the guys!
 
 
+36 # par 2013-02-16 14:00
You say: Charging banks with lots of crimes, for example, would likely have the unintended consumer-unfrie ndly result of putting a lot of them out of business. That may of course happen if it is deserved but the most likely and more important result would be preventive and make more of them follow the law. Please remember how all financial officials just let the financial crisis develop prior to 2008 without lifting a finger because the common attitude at that time was that the financial markets would be free and regulate themselves. Names? Greenspan, Rubin, Summers, Levitt and later Cox. To read their statements before the crisis in light of what happened from 2008 is very depressing and shows how they all were completely wrong and misdirected. They did their best to destroy US, but our nation has been strong enough to handle even that test. Good luck Elizabeth Warren in preventing that from happening again.
 
 
+8 # PGreen 2013-02-18 08:56
Quoting par:
"Yes, Warren is a populist. Yes, some of her views seem reflexive and could be harmful if implemented. (Charging banks with lots of crimes, for example, would likely have the unintended consumer-unfriendly result of putting a lot of them out of business.) And yes, she sometimes misfires - aiming her wrath at, say, a panel of regulators who can only bring civil suits in the first place, rather than officials in the Justice Department like Lanny Breuer, who could actually have pressed criminal charges against banks but chose not to."
This is the epitome of damning with faint praise.

I agree with what you say, par, that if some banks go out of business because they are unable to operate justly and legally, than they should. In the 1930's, FDR seized a number of banks and placed them under government control until they came round. This is the sort of action that is required. Kevin Roose is either worried about sounding like a radical, perhaps for career reasons, or is a closet apologist for the financial services industry, but he lacks a sense of what is necessary in these extreme circumstances. Warren is exactly right to criticize the reluctance of regulators and DOJ officials at all levels, so extreme that it resembles nepotism.
 
 
+37 # angelfish 2013-02-16 14:07
Hallelieujah! We FINALLY have someone who will call these slimy Bas*ards OUT for their calumny and abuse of Americans! Happy Days ARE here again!
 
 
+30 # goodsensecynic 2013-02-16 16:53
Don't forget Bernie Sanders!

Now, there are two ...
 
 
+33 # Wolfchen 2013-02-16 14:41
Senator Elizabeth Warren for the next President, Attorney General or Supreme Court justice The has the intelligence, integrity and tenacity to bring the corporate criminals to trial and conviction. We need to bring back Glass-Steagall to break apart these corporate monopolies, and we need a presidency and justice department ready and willing to bring these corporate criminals to trial, seeking prison time as well as monetary damages. No more mere settlements...i t's time for criminal prosecutions all the way to verdicts...and lets fire any Attorney General and control agency appointees who are in fact agents in support of corporate crime.

Not only are the Republicans in bed with the Wall Street criminals, along with some Democrats, even Obama is involved in covering up corporate crime. Attorney General Holder is also a Wall Street lackey, along with much of Obama's cabinet. Also remember that even Bill Clinton signed off on ending the protections that were instituted un Glass- Steagall, so I wouldn't trust Hillary either. We also need public financing of elections along with instilling our Supreme Court with justices that have the interests of our nation as a whole as a primary interest. Since a democracy gets what it deserves, we have become too passive and dumb as an electorate, so as to let these corporate criminals take control of our nation.
 
 
+6 # MountainEyrie 2013-02-17 17:34
We also need run-off elections so 3rd-party candidates and those voting for them need no longer fear that their vote will skew toward the dark side....
 
 
+17 # joan fassett 2013-02-16 15:34
It is an absolute delight having Senator Elizabeth Warren AND Senator Allan Grayson and many more in office now if only we can do as well with the House of Representatives 2014. Congratulations Democratic President Obama and all! I want so badly to write something as nasty as and to Senator McCain but for now can abstain. Thank you Democrats All!!!!!
 
 
+8 # flippancy 2013-02-16 17:50
Quoting joan fassett:
It is an absolute delight having Senator Elizabeth Warren AND Senator Allan Grayson and many more in office now if only we can do as well with the House of Representatives 2014. Congratulations Democratic President Obama and all! I want so badly to write something as nasty as and to Senator McCain but for now can abstain. Thank you Democrats All!!!!!


Alan Grayson is the Representative from Orlando, but he would be a great Senator. From your post to God's ear!
 
 
+2 # Firefox11 2013-02-17 13:03
Senator Alan Grayson? I believe it is Representative AG, U.S. Rep for Florida's 9th District
 
 
+4 # tabonsell 2013-02-16 18:23
I fail to see how taking a corporation to trial by a regulatory agency (which is not a prosecuting organization) would result in anything different from what is accomplished by a settlement. If found guilty of a crime in a trial the corporation would be fined, which is essentially what happens in a settlement. There may be a difference in the amount of the fine, but we don't know that.

We need a two-pronged approach.

When a corporation agrees to an out-of-court settlement, that ought to be taken as an admission that some illegal conduct did occur. That should be a consideration for the Justice Department to seek indictments and trial for the individuals (i.e. executives) who were responsible for those crimes.

Since a regulatory agency could act against a corporation and the Justice Department against individuals there should be no double-jeoparey questions.
 
 
+12 # Joe Bob 2013-02-16 20:48
We need to name and embareass the perps.
Show that the Law exists, for everyone.
Put them in prison along with all the poor and middle class people who may or may not belong there.
 
 
+7 # Texas Aggie 2013-02-16 21:50
An important part of the difference is that when a settlement is reached, the perps insist on there being a statement that no illegal acts were perpetrated. Thus when they do it again after promising not to, there is no way that they can be hit hard. In addition the difference in the amount of money is significant. A settlement is just a cost of doing business or else the corporation won't agree to the settlement. A fine can be punitive.
 
 
0 # tabonsell 2013-02-18 18:48
Such a statement you cite about illegal acts would pertain only to the party bringing the accusation; i.e. a regulatory agency and would prevent only that agency bringing criminal charges.

That's why we need a two-pronged approach because such an agreement with a regulatory agency wouldn't apply to an agency such as the Justice Department. One agency can't make a agreement that subverts the authority of another agency, no more than your neighbor making a deal with the city that affects your rights.
 
 
+10 # RLF 2013-02-17 08:58
The problem with fines is that they should be ON TOP of the ill gotten gains. Make a billion illegally...the n pay it all back and then pay a billion fine...but it never happens. They make a billion and are fined 100 million which leaves a nice profit and incentive for future trespasses.
 
 
+11 # AUCHMANNOCH 2013-02-16 19:24
I like this women - I like her a lot because she says it like it is and her comparison of the full weight of the law bearing down on citizens and the timid slap on the wrist to the WS banks is self evident and valid. Living in Oz why should I care about any of this? Simple - the Wall Street banks insane greed stuffed up my retirement savings by half and unlike America the stock market in Oz hasn't recovered to where it was. I would like to see jail time for the crooks responsible. Yeah - call it revenge and I am one of millions inside and outside the U.S.A. who feel that way!
 
 
+4 # MountainEyrie 2013-02-17 17:29
Indeed, totally agree with thee.
 
 
+17 # Texas Aggie 2013-02-16 21:46
The banksters have no one to blame but themselves. If they had behaved like honest, decent people, this would never have needed to happen. If they hadn't prevented her from heading the consumer protection commission, she wouldn't be in the Senate. Be careful what you wish for because you may get it. Serves the SOB's right.

No quarter, Dr. Warren. Go get 'em. We have your back.
 
 
+5 # Walter J Smith 2013-02-16 21:49
One of the more impressive scenes in the whole thing is the one with Senator Manchin, D - Big Mountain Top Removing Coal, Inc., having tardily arrived to fill his seat at the hearing, sitting smugly behind and to Senator Warren's left, as if he were under arrest from her having given him a reality check. So then he begins reading something, as if changing his attention's object would somehow ease the pain of hearing that there might be bad news for the major corporate thugs cult.
 
 
+14 # Texas Aggie 2013-02-16 22:07
Dr. Warren asked if one of the reasons that the banks are trading below book value is that no one believes their books. Then Mr. Tarullo tried to make another point, but what he was saying is that yes, indeed, people did not believe the banks' books and did not think that they were worth as much as they claimed. He then accepted her second statement that some banks were trying to downsize by getting rid of some of their departments that they couldn't control.

This woman has a handle on the situation.
 
 
+6 # BeaDeeBunker 2013-02-17 01:36
Since appearance rather than substance seems to matter so much these days, I would like to make the following observation:

Senator Elizabeth Warren wears glasses in order to see better;

Sarah Palin wore glasses in order to appear better.
 
 
+12 # Artemis 2013-02-17 06:47
It is wonderful to read this outpouring of admiration and support for Sen Warren, but even more so to feel the deep gratitude for someone who is real, honest and actually speaks and acts as we expect ALL politicians to do.
Isn't it incredible that just one person can shine such a light on the path that has been lost in the slime and murkiness of government today?
 
 
+5 # Don Thomann 2013-02-17 07:38
YES!!!!!
 
 
+7 # MountainEyrie 2013-02-17 17:27
Dream Presidential Team:
Dr Jill Stein and Senator Warren!

Then we would not need to have a real revolution in order to regain positive momentum on all fronts.

But yes, BRAVO!!! and AMEN! to Sen Warren.
 
 
+8 # Paul Scott 2013-02-17 19:03
 
 
+6 # jussayin 2013-02-17 23:49
Finally, we have another senator besides Bernie who is willing to do their job.
 
 
-5 # Martintfre 2013-02-18 15:47
regulatory capture... I bet it wont be very long before you suckers realize she is paying ya all and she will be yet anther puppet for the fascist state just like Lord Obama the bail out King is.

As senator he voted for the bail outs and as president OweBama doled out our money -- to his political friends.
 
 
-5 # Jonathan Levy 2013-02-18 17:31
The banks are not scared at all. That was hardly anything for them to blink at. She asked if there were ever trials, that's all.
 
 
+3 # Rockie 2013-02-18 20:19
Elizabeth Warren for President. This lady has my vote. She is a breath of fresh air, and I don't care what party she belongs too. She is for the people.
 
 
0 # Buddha 2013-02-20 11:37
I'm one of those out of state donors, and I support her doing this 100%. Finally someone is. And I totally disagree the taking Wall St institutions to court would "put a lot of them out of business" rationalization in the article. First, putting those in charge of these institutions who knowingly committed their fraudulent activities on trial, and hopefully in jail, would simply mean those institutions would then pay a fine and hire another CEO, who hopefully would learn the lesson and not blow up our economy with fraud. Second, if an institution needs to get away with fraud to remain in business, then that is a business that needs to fail. That is like saying you can't go after the mafia, because if you do and put mafiosos in jail, the mafia might be weakened.
 
 
0 # friedbaloney21 2013-02-21 22:06
Please, please Senator Warren do not allow any fat-cat businessmen or any Fortune listed companies to corrupt you. They've almost completely hijacked our justice system and our representative government. Yes they've even corrupted (i.e. , bought off) President Obama (i.e., he only nominates Wall Street insiders to fill goverment posts). You are the last best hope for ordinary Americans who love our country more than they love personal gain.
 

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