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Excerpt: "Republican politicians gathered at the N.R.A. convention are eagerly pandering to a powerful political lobby that is intent on making the nation's gun laws weaker."

Romney received a standing ovation from the crowd at the NRA convention. (photo: AP)
Romney received a standing ovation from the crowd at the NRA convention. (photo: AP)



Republicans and the Gun Lobby

By The New York Times | Editorial

14 April 12

 

epublican politicians gathering at the National Rifle Association convention in St. Louis are eagerly pandering to a powerful political lobby that is intent on making the nation's gun laws weaker and more riddled with more dangerous loopholes. Rather than tackling public safety risks like the Stand Your Ground law implicated in the killing of Trayvon Martin in Florida, Mitt Romney and others offered nothing but exhortations to defend the Second Amendment's right to bear arms at all costs.

President Obama has regrettably been avoiding the gun control issue. Still, Mr. Romney attacked him at the convention on Friday, promising to stand with the N.R.A. "for the rights of hunters and sportsmen and those seeking to protect their homes and their families." This was a far cry from Mr. Romney's 1994 campaign for the United States Senate when he assured centrist Massachusetts voters: "I don't line up with the N.R.A." Yet there he was in St. Louis, lining up. Newt Gingrich, in his over-the-top manner, urged a United Nations campaign to proclaim the Second Amendment "a human right for every person on the planet."

The convention, in its "celebration of American values," has drawn tens of thousands of members to see genuflecting Republicans and to browse a seven-acre commercial mart of guns and shooting paraphernalia, much of it designed for the battlefields of war, not the home front.

Notably absent are top Democratic politicians, who seem to have concluded that, despite thousands of constituents shot or killed each year, it is best to go silent about gun control.

Polls show Republicans enjoy heavy support and donations from gun owners. In return, the gun lobby has had steady success in weakening gun laws — especially in the two dozen statehouses that followed Florida in enacting new self-defense laws to allow the instant use of deadly force in a confrontation rather than retreat from danger. These laws are fostered by the conservative American Legislative Exchange Council, with heavyweight business supporters like Walmart, a major gun retailer.

The families of the victims killed and wounded in the Virginia Tech massacre do not come close to having such clout. For the tragedy's fifth anniversary next week, they are having a hard time securing meetings with Washington politicians to fix the law that promised a more complete and up-to-date federal list of the mentally ill, who should be barred from buying guns. But two dozen states have submitted fewer than 100 mental health records each when tens of thousands should be entered, according to Mayors Against Illegal Guns, a national gun reform group. Financing to help state reporting efforts was supposed to be $1.1 billion over the last four years, yet Congress appropriated only $51 million. So goes the nation's utter failure to deal with the gun menace.

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-57 # MidwestTom 2012-04-14 12:00
Two days after the shootings in a Luby's restaurant in Texas ( as I recall 13 people were killed) , years ago, I found myself eating lunch at Patty's Place in Manchester, Kentucky, when the local Sheriff entered. Someone spoke up that they were glad the Sheriff was there with his guns, he could protect everyone. Moments later someone else added that if the Sheriff missed he had his gun, then another person said the same, then another, and another, soon it was obvious that I was possibly the only person in the restaurant without a gun. Even the two guys that I was with had guns. I did not feel at all endangered. Gars don't kill, drivers do.
 
 
+29 # reiverpacific 2012-04-14 12:59
Quoting MidwestTom:
Two days after the shootings in a Luby's restaurant in Texas ( as I recall 13 people were killed) , years ago, I found myself eating lunch at Patty's Place in Manchester, Kentucky, when the local Sheriff entered. Someone spoke up that they were glad the Sheriff was there with his guns, he could protect everyone. Moments later someone else added that if the Sheriff missed he had his gun, then another person said the same, then another, and another, soon it was obvious that I was possibly the only person in the restaurant without a gun. Even the two guys that I was with had guns. I did not feel at all endangered. Gars don't kill, drivers do.

If you didn't feel endangered, you have bought into the NRA indoctrination system and have a blunted consciousness.
Where I come from, even the cops have to be issued guns "in extreme circumstances only".
Hell, you can't have a good, clean fistfight here, as you are likely to be facing either a gun-totin' redneck or at the other end of the scale, some twit who has the means to heavily sue you -I've experienced both extremes!
I lived in Kentucky too, home of the "Creationist Museum" level of mentality by the way.
And what the Hell does "(G) Cars don't kill, drivers do"! got to do with it? Sounds like pure NRA inverse-rationa lization to me.
 
 
-3 # John Locke 2012-04-15 08:56
River: You disappoint me here, your logic is flawed!

According to the book, Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense With a Gun written by Dr. Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, guns are used 2.5 million times a year by law-abiding citizens in self-defense. That breaks down to about 6,850 times a day(86).
On it's website The National Safety Council says the total number of gun deaths accounts for less than 30,000 deaths per year. This means that firearms are used eighty times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives. Looking at the break down of these 2.5 million cases, we find that a large majority of the time merely brandishing a weapon or firing a warning shot to scare off the attacker is all that was required. Less than 8% of the time is the attacker wounded or killed.

Even anti-gun criminologists Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig from the Clinton Administration published a study in 1997 called “Guns in America” for The National Institute of Justice. In this study they admitted that according to the Justice Department there are as many as 1.5 million cases a year where guns are used in self-defense. George Will in “Are we a Nation of Cowards'?” wrote for Newsweek in 1993 that armed citizens kill more criminals than police do every year, by a margin of almost two to one (1527 to 606).

More Below
 
 
-2 # John Locke 2012-04-15 08:57
Newsweek readers learned “Only 2% of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The 'error rate' for the police was more than 11%, more than five times as high.” Some 200,000 women use a gun to defend themselves against sexual abuse every year.
 
 
+2 # reiverpacific 2012-04-15 16:43
Quoting John Locke:
River: You disappoint me here, your logic is flawed!

More Below

Quoting John Locke:
Newsweek readers learned “Only 2% of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The 'error rate' for the police was more than 11%, more than five times as high.” Some 200,000 women use a gun to defend themselves against sexual abuse every year.

It's "Reiver" B.T.W. and I don't have room to respond properly but I stand by my statement of response.
Read on if you care to.
1. I don't post to seek your or anybody else's approval or otherwise, so get off y'r high-horse and join the crowd at ground level.
2. You are talking from the US Death culture viewpoint here, not the more civilized parts of the world where citizens don't have to respond to hate mongering by carrying weapons and thereby have much lower crime rates (Like Canada for a start). I have known people of both sexes who began carrying small arms "for extra security" and found themselves becoming more aggressive and tempted to use them- by their own admissions incidentally.
3. I don't consider "Newsweek" a journal worth my serious consideration and I ESPECIALLY' can't take that over-verbose old Whig George Will seriously at all. And I don't consider him worthy of judging anybody cowardly or otherwise, who sits in comfort dispensing faux, self-regarding articles!
Cast your net wide mate!
 
 
+22 # PGreen 2012-04-14 13:32
A different anecdote: About ten years ago I was in the UK and I fell to talking with a Scottish man. At some point, he mentioned that he had been to Texas, and told me that he would never go back there again. This is the story he told me: While in a bar, a man grew rowdy (but not violent) so a number of patrons grabbed him, held his wrists, and tied a rope around his neck, throwing the other end over the rafters. They then got the guy up on a chair (and naturally, he was screaming his head off). While everyone watched, they kicked the chair away. Though it look as though the rope was tied, it had not been, so it came loose and the guy fell on his butt.
I would never deem this kind of "practical joke" acceptable. However, those at the bar (except the Scottish man, who was no stranger to drunken behavior) had no trouble with it.
The problem with most everyone wearing a gun is that it gives rise to this kind of mentality: force your own rules.
Sooner or later, this kind of event will happen again, but the knot will be tied.
 
 
-5 # DPM 2012-04-14 13:38
Your point?
 
 
+18 # vicnada 2012-04-14 14:28
Quoting MidwestTom:
Gars don't kill, drivers do.


"Guns don't kill people..." People who say that do.
 
 
+14 # Texas Aggie 2012-04-14 20:28
Sure. With everyone in the restaurant firing away, it would have been real safe.
 
 
-8 # John Locke 2012-04-15 08:46
I don't understand the thumbs down, Your comment is not a foolish comment, as the saying goes "Guns don't kill people; People do", and to add more people are killed in traffic accidents every year, (by an automobile), then with guns, so should we outlaw automobiles?...

If we outlaw guns how will we assure that our government will remain Honest? Well somewhat Honest!

Guns are the only thing that stand in the way of complete government oppression and a full dictatorship, which is where we are heading! Guns will allow us to restore our democracy! That was the reason for the Second Amendment.

Are you ready to void that Right also? I mean the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 6th, have already been voided by Obama, do you want to add the 2nd to the list! That will amount to half our Bill of Rights!!! Are we really prepared to void all our rights?
 
 
+2 # reiverpacific 2012-04-15 16:54
Quoting John Locke:
I don't understand the thumbs down, Your comment is not a foolish comment, as the saying goes "Guns don't kill people; People do", and to add more people are killed in traffic accidents every year, (by an automobile), then with guns, so should we outlaw automobiles?...

If we outlaw guns how will we assure that our government will remain Honest? Well somewhat Honest!

Guns are the only thing that stand in the way of complete government oppression and a full dictatorship, which is where we are heading! Guns will allow us to restore our democracy! That was the reason for the Second Amendment.

Are you ready to void that Right also? I mean the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 6th, have already been voided by Obama, do you want to add the 2nd to the list! That will amount to half our Bill of Rights!!! Are we really prepared to void all our rights?

Talk about twisted logic!?
Aamendment 11 begins with "A well-regulated militia---"
Escalation of firearms in the US is such that both the police and citizens have to be ever more heavily armed to keep ahead of each other's false perceptions of liberty. The obsessive and blinkered gun lobbyists are disappearing up their own barrels and arsenals at the cost of more worthwhile and benign pursuits.
And starting kids early as death-dealers should be illegal, like the statutes put on booze.
If you want to shoot your way to more fear-dom, keep it to y'rself please.
 
 
-2 # John Locke 2012-04-15 20:20
River your logic is so twisted, there is no reason to even respond you are so off base…

As someone who is trained in the law "Con law" to be precise, you’re way off base...and your claim about Canada is at best a fabrication.... Fact: The murder rates in many nations (such as England) were ALREADY LOW BEFORE enacting gun control. Thus, their restrictive laws cannot be credited with lowering their crime rates.
Fact: Gun control has done nothing to keep crime rates from rising in many of the nations that have imposed severe firearms restrictions.

Australia: Readers of the USA Today newspaper discovered in 2002 that, "Since Australia's 1996 laws banning most guns and making it a crime to use a gun defensively, armed robberies rose by 51%, unarmed robberies by 37%, assaults by 24% and kidnappings by 43%. While murders fell by 3%, manslaughter rose by 16%."

*Canada: (the Truth) After enacting stringent gun control laws in 1991 and 1995, Canada has not made its citizens any safer. "The contrast between the criminal violence rates in the United States and in Canada is dramatic," says Canadian criminologist Gary Mauser in 2003. "Over the past decade, the rate of violent crime in Canada has increased while in the United States the violent crime rate has plummeted."
More Below
 
 
-1 # John Locke 2012-04-15 20:21
* England: According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997.

* Japan: One newspaper headline says it all: Police say "Crime rising in Japan, while arrests at record low."

Fact: British citizens are now more likely to become a victim of crime than are people in the United States:
In 1998, a study conducted jointly by statisticians from the U.S. Department of Justice and the University of Cambridge in England found that most crime is now worse in England than in the United States.
"You are more likely to be mugged in England than in the United States," stated the Reuters news agency in summarizing the study. "The rate of robbery is now 1.4 times higher in England and Wales than in the United States, and the British burglary rate is nearly double America's."

The murder rate in the United States is reportedly higher than in England, but according to the DOJ study, "the difference between the [murder rates in the] two countries has narrowed over the past 16 years."

* The United Nations confirmed these results in 2000 when it reported that the crime rate in England is higher than the crime rates of 16 other industrialized nations, including the United States.
Continued
 
 
0 # John Locke 2012-04-15 20:23
Fact: British authorities routinely underreport crime statistics. Comparing statistics between different nations can be quite difficult since foreign officials frequently use different standards in compiling crime statistics.
* The British media has remained quite critical of authorities there for "fiddling" with crime data. Consider some of the headlines in their papers: "Crime figures a sham, say police,"910 and "Police figures under-record offences by 20 percent."11 "Police are accused of fiddling crime data,"
* British police have also criticized the system because of the "widespread manipulation" of crime data:
a. "Officers said that pressure to convince the public that police were winning the fight against crime had resulted in a long list of ruses to 'massage' statistics."
b. Sgt. Mike Bennett says officers have become increasingly frustrated with the practice of manipulating statistics. "The crime figures are meaningless," he said. "Police everywhere know exactly what is going on."
Continued
 
 
0 # John Locke 2012-04-15 20:24
c. According to The Electronic Telegraph, "Officers said the recorded level of crime bore no resemblance to the actual amount of crime being committed."
* Underreporting crime data: "One former Scotland Yard officer told The Telegraph of a series of tricks that rendered crime figures 'a complete sham.' A classic example, he said, was where a series of homes in a block flats were burgled and were regularly recorded as one crime. Another involved pickpocketing, which was not recorded as a crime unless the victim had actually seen the item being stolen."
* Underreporting murder data: British crime reporting tactics keep murder rates artificially low. "Suppose that three men kill a woman during an argument outside a bar. They are arrested for murder, but because of problems with identification (the main witness is dead), charges are eventually dropped. In American crime statistics, the event counts as a three-person homicide, but in British statistics it counts as nothing at all. 'With such differences in reporting criteria, comparisons of U.S. homicide rates with British homicide rates is a sham,' [a 2000 report from the Inspectorate of Constabulary] concludes."
Continued
 
 
-1 # John Locke 2012-04-15 20:26
5. Fact: Many nations with stricter gun control laws have violence rates that are equal to, or greater than, that of the United States. Consider the following rates:

Gun ownership is for any citizen, the pre amble ihas been rightly determined by the Supreme Court to be descriptive not exclusive> Give up your weapons if you like, But Leave mine intact...

These are the facts Not the propaganda being expressed here ...

http://gunowners.org/sk0703.htm
 
 
+1 # reiverpacific 2012-04-16 11:22
Quoting John Locke:
5. Fact: Many nations with stricter gun control laws have violence rates that are equal to, or greater than, that of the United States. Consider the following rates:

Gun ownership is for any citizen, the pre amble ihas been rightly determined by the Supreme Court to be descriptive not exclusive> Give up your weapons if you like, But Leave mine intact...

These are the facts Not the propaganda being expressed here ...

http://gunowners.org/sk0703.htm

Nonsense; AND IT'S "REIVER" AGAIN b.t.w., a "River" is what you fish in!
Typical blinkered talent for fact twisting which is typical of the reactionary mindset.
I've lived all over the world and am FROM the UK (the BBC is my home page) and my experience counts (in my view) for more than whatever PROPAGANDA you care to rationalize from any source you claim to base it on -I could rationalize Hitler's actions if I was a Nazi-sympathize r, and the US is without doubt by a large margin, the most fear-through hate and ignorance-drive n, resentfully violence-prone country I've ever lived in. The LAST place where lethal weapons should be so readily available, as it is the most heavily nuclear-armed, dumb bully-in the schoolyard on the planet.
That's all I have to say on the subject as I have a feeling, so familiar when trying to have a discussion with anybody of your entrenched and immovable mein, that I'm rattling an empty tin can.
 
 
-3 # John Locke 2012-04-16 11:37
Reiver, especialy when you attempt to put false information here, its called Propaganda and you are outed!
 
 
+45 # Feral Dogz 2012-04-14 12:01
I'm surprised that gun manufacturers don't just give the guns away for free. The real money is in the ammo. They're having a hard time keeping up with the demand. Paranoia runs deep. Fear mongering pays.
 
 
+44 # riverhouse 2012-04-14 12:16
If those of us who love our country don't actively support reasoned and intelligent politicians we are soon going to be lost to the right wing freaks in the Republican Party who pander to the special interests and nincompoops who would have us all in shootouts in the street, women returned to the '50s, and African Americans to subservience. I hate what is happening to America with the bagger and nutter influence in politics. Obama Biden 2012
 
 
-10 # John Locke 2012-04-15 09:01
Your comment here is almost enough to make me vote for Romney!
 
 
+28 # ps34109 2012-04-14 12:40
It is way past time for the MSM to start questioning/dis cussing the gun laws in this country and how they are responsible for thousands upon thousands of senseless deaths.

The NRA has bullied everyone to "shut up" about the insanity of our gun laws. These nuts won't be happy until every single, man woman AND child has to carry a firearm for their own safety. These laws do not belong in a civilized society.

The NRA has bought and paid for just about every republican and some democrats. They write our laws, not out lawmakers. Our lawmakers simply vote on legislation drafted by the NRA.

Please, some brave person in the MSM, speak up and get this discussion started. Make people THINK about what is happening in this country of, supposedly, sane, rational people.
 
 
-9 # Bodiotoo 2012-04-14 17:43
Guns kill because someone pulls a trigger when they should not have, be it accidental, or as in the current Zimmerman case...Cars do the same...again when not used properly or accidentally. A lot more senseless deaths than cars, and we have to be
qualified" to drive if we are acting legally. I don't own a gun, but please do not abridge my 2nd admendment right to bear one...legally and responsibily.
 
 
+8 # ps34109 2012-04-14 21:04
Not one sensible person wants to take away your 2nd amendment right to own a gun.

Be honest.
 
 
-8 # John Locke 2012-04-15 09:03
ps34109: Really from what I am reading in the comments to the article, I am getting the opposite impression
 
 
+14 # propsguy 2012-04-14 21:36
cars kill when someone makes a mistake. they are designed and built for transport, not for killing, which sometimes happens by accident.
guns are made specifically to inflict harm or to kill, be it a human or an animal. cars don't have targets; guns do. if you can't tell the difference, you're a fool
 
 
-3 # Bodiotoo 2012-04-15 09:46
Design for does not stop more people from being killed by cars each year than guns. Ever get hit by a car. It is not fun...wish I could walk and run the same but I can not any more...because a young uninsured motorist was rushing to work with coffee and a cell phone in hand rather than watching his left hand turn into the cross walk and me. Apparently he didn;t understand that a car is a potentially dangerous tool...the same can be said about a gun. Both are tools, and used properly and with fore thought neither has to be an instrument of death or injury.
 
 
+3 # Granny Weatherwax 2012-04-15 12:04
Quoting Bodiotoo:
Cars do the same...again when not used properly or accidentally.


Come on!
Cars are not designed to kill.
Guns are.
 
 
+32 # Craig Jones 2012-04-14 12:41
The Republican Party has co-opted the NRA and the organization now represents a grave threat to our Republic. Listen to the retheric at their conventions, watch the body language of their leader at the podium talking about the Democratic President. These "fire-brands" are dangerous. Turnabout is fair play--The NRA should overseen by the ATF with members needing to show proof of safety for all weapons they personally register.
 
 
+10 # reiverpacific 2012-04-14 13:00
What d'you expect from an entrenched death culture?
 
 
+13 # Regina 2012-04-14 13:12
The Republican Party has only one direction of vision: Backward. Their nostalgic campaign to turn women back to their 19th century domestic servitude and men back to their 19th century cowboys' shoot-em-ups totally disqualifies them for the 21st century offices they seek. Enough innocent people have been slaughtered in shoot-outs, now by military-grade firearms, to satisfy their insane blood lust. It's time for them to reject the NRA's obsessions and try a little civic virtue. But of course, they won't -- the only antidote is to vote Democratic, even though they're far from perfect. Better than the alternative.
 
 
+14 # Peace Anonymous 2012-04-14 13:37
America has 10 times Canada's population but 100 times the deaths do to shootings. Do the math. It isn't that complicated. There may be a restaurant full of gun owners but how much safer it would be if nobody had a gun. Guns don't people....idiot s with guns do.
 
 
-14 # Bodiotoo 2012-04-14 17:47
Comparisons like that are nonsense...simp le reality is more people, living closer increases dramatically the likelihood of incidents. Period. More people, greater % of illness being spread and more rapidly. Example 10 in a square mile...not much contact 100 in the same square mile...more interaction.
Are you going to ban knives and scissors next.
Thou Shall Not Kill...if we follow that one rule...Guns don't kill anymore.
 
 
+6 # Dufetel 2012-04-14 21:54
Quoting Bodiotoo:

Are you going to ban knives and scissors next (?).


Having a knife or a pair of scissors does not confer the same power as a gun, so that comment sounds like a weak justification for carrying arms. And this Second Amendment business - this is simply out-of-date. It might have been relevant in the days of Buffalo Bill, but if you want to continue to honor a piece of paper while your streets are awash in blood, mostly that of innocent bystanders, victims of hotheads and the mentally deranged, so be it. Forgive me for thinking you country as backward.
 
 
-3 # John Locke 2012-04-15 09:14
Nonsense 3,104,095 are killed or wounded by knives each year in the US.

http://www.chacha.com/question/how-many-people-get-stabbed-per-year

Gun-related violence is most common in poor urban areas and in conjunction with gang violence, often involving juveniles or young adults.

There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000. The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides! with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide, while 12,632 (40.5%) were homicide deaths.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

It looks to me that Knives are more of a concern...Maybe we need to outlaw knives? no where in the constitution is knife ownership protected! Get the Point?
 
 
+2 # X Dane 2012-04-16 02:31
Unfortunately our country is one of the most violent countries. We glorify gangsters. John Gotti was written about as some celebrity. and our movies and TV programs are so violent, and full of sadistic actions.
Also our biggest export are weapons of death.
Sadly violence is glorified
 
 
+12 # boadacia 2012-04-14 13:47
A reminder to those who make the claim that it's not guns that kill, but people, I might say that humans are fallible, and often kill without thinking or provocation when threatened. In addition, there are many wounded individuals who aren't responsible enough to have an object that has as its only function the power to take a life.
 
 
+11 # Old Man 2012-04-14 14:14
It's time we as a country start to look at the gun laws. Don't get me wrong, I own guns, I just think theres a lot of people out there mentally unable to distinguish right from wrong that own guns, I'm thinking of Zimmerman and others.
 
 
+1 # Bodiotoo 2012-04-14 17:50
Agreed...no problem we class and training requirements and a look at the mental, and health of individuals...e specially if they intend to carry.
 
 
+1 # X Dane 2012-04-16 02:37
Add to that: NOBODY NEEDS AUTOMATIC WEAPONS for hunting they are strictly for killing humans and so are these clips of 20- 30 shots.
 
 
+22 # Brooklyn Girl 2012-04-14 14:29
We have more requirements to get a driver's license than we do to get a gun: age limits, written test, driving test, vehicle registration, inspections, and insurance. Most people don't have a problem with that. And yet, apply the same standards to gun ownership and people go nuts. That never ceases to both amaze and infuriate me.
 
 
-9 # Bodiotoo 2012-04-14 17:53
Here it is easier to get a license to open a tatoo store shot and stick kids with needles than it is to get a video arcade license?! Governments, local, state and fderal seem to just love making rules and regulations, collect absurd fees for the most nonsensical things that can be thought up...example... a "park mpnitor" to check out an event...really. ..? What for.
 
 
+18 # Liberalthinker 2012-04-14 14:44
Let us not be naive...The NRA is a "Stand Your Ground "kind of group!!!! They support your right to shoot and kill if you feel threatened EVEN BY A KID SUSPICIOUSLY ATTIRED IN A gangster like hooded sweat shirt and armed with a treacherous and dangerous box of Skittles and a drink in a weapon-like styrofoam cup...I think we should return to the days of the old west and have shoot 'em up gun battles in the town square....And if you think the preceding is a declaration of completely disgusted sarcasm, you are entirely correct. This country ,led by unscrupulous members of Congress and state governments seems headed in a terribly misguided direction. I'm not necessarily a Democrat,though I do support our President,but the Republican Party ,their candidate and his wife smilingly humanizing (themselves)and inhumane rhetoric seem to have lost their minds.
 
 
-5 # Bodiotoo 2012-04-14 16:25
Liberalthinker, I have been a member of the NRA, and I am extremely left wing...I have never owned, I have shot, and I am not afraid of guns...it is the users...I question the need for fully automatic etc in the hands of just anyone...we, the people have a right to bear arms...and if you have any understanding of the admendment it was to insure the citizens would have a defense against an our of control governing class. Guns used for leagl purpose are not a problem...it is what is done with the gun in the hands of the user that is the problem. Support OUR CONSTITUTION... left, right and middle...gun ownership is a guarentee of freedom...and yes bad apples cause rot...but it is not like we are living in the wild west and everybody is gunning you down. I do agree for the most part that the Reps do seem even crazier this election cycle...more so than 2008, if that is possible!
 
 
+1 # jwb110 2012-04-14 18:11
This Second Amendment thing is just a quagmire. I think if President Obama came out and said that he would push for a revision of the Second Amendment that would require that all citizens must have a firearm that would shut the bunch of them up.
Bullies become very different people once they learn that the "other" is also armed.
 
 
+7 # Regina 2012-04-14 21:21
The Second Amendment is written with an archaic grammar construction known (to English teachers) as a "dangling participle." That introductory language refers to state militias, not just anybody. it was also conceived and composed in the 18th century, when we didn't have Glocks and Uzis and 30-bullet rapid-fire capability. Funny, the most insistent screamers for "original intent" forget to consider original circumstances when reading Consitutional passages -- their scramble of "back then" and "today" is deadly.
 
 
+1 # Liberalthinker 2012-04-14 21:29
Bodiotoo , I am pleased to know that you fully understand the meaning of sarcasm...liber al ,in your case, is liTeral..Thank you for your lecture on the amendment allowing we the people to bear arms to defend ourselves against an OUR of control governing class. Anarchy should be very comfortable in such circumstances .End of sarcasm.
 
 
-1 # Daniel Haire 2012-04-15 07:39
First, blaming guns for crimes does not work. And before anyone says it. I am not an NRA member or will ever join. To date there has never been accurate criminal activity statistics to prove a correlation between owning firearms and crime levels. In fact in the 1980s, New York City did a study about the number of crimes done with firearms to see how many were legally purchased and registered firearms used by their legal owners. The answer was 1. This was the exact opposite of the expected results.
During the same time, crime numbers for Europe, Asia, and the Middle East were released in the news. Switzerland and Israel were shown to have vastly lower crime rates. What was similar was that both countries have an extremely armed populace due to everyone having government issued weapons and training and/or personal experience. Israel has compulsory military service; Switzerland has mandatory membership in the local militias if one doesn't join the military. Everyone gets to keep their weapons at home. Who's going to commit a crime when they know they are outgunned and that those around won't miss.
Numbers don't lie.
As to constitutionali ty, remember that the Founders created the Second Amendment out of having just fought a war for their rights. A war won because of civilian ownership of guns where again people knew how to shoot. The 2d amendment was written to ensure that the populace would always have the means to resist if the government became a tyranny.
 
 
+5 # labman57 2012-04-15 08:40
Notice how the cry for "the right to bear arms" easily morphs from a matter of self defense into taking the law into one's own hands.

What is the most powerful weapon in the NRA's arsenal?

No, it's not an Uzi or an M-16. It's the deliberate spread of delusional paranoia and irrational fear regarding the Second Amendment.

No one is seriously suggesting repealing the 2nd Amendment so that private citizens are unable to own firearms. What has been frequently discussed is further regulating the industry so that there are better controls and safeguards on:

1) what types of firearms/access ories can be purchased and owned by private citizens (no one needs fully automatic weapons for hunting or for personal safety, nor do people need semi-automatic handguns that can fire 20-30 rounds in a clip)

2) who can purchase them (excluding people with severe emotional disorders, for example)

3) the methods used for the sale of firearms (e.g., ensuring proper background checks on ALL firearm purchases, and so that there exists a digital trail of all transactions), including purchases at gun shows and sales between private parties.
 
 
0 # dfy 2012-10-20 15:32
Quoting labman57:
Notice how the cry for "the right to bear arms"


No one is seriously suggesting repealing the 2nd Amendment so that private citizens are unable to own firearms. What has been frequently discussed is further regulating the industry so that there are better controls and safeguards on:

1) what types of firearms/accessories can be purchased and owned by private citizens (no one needs fully automatic weapons for hunting or for personal safety, nor do people need semi-automatic handguns that can fire 20-30 rounds in a clip)


The Bill of Rights is just that. It is not a Bill of Needs. And one more time: It is a magazine not a clip. Learn some basic facts about firearms. Fully automatic firearms have been banned from general ownership since the National Firearms Act of 1934 but can still be owned by citizens who are willing to pass a background check, pay the $200 tax fee and live in a state where such firearms can be owned(not Illinois, not California).

Quoting labman57:
3) the methods used for the sale of firearms (e.g., ensuring proper background checks on ALL firearm purchases, and so that there exists a digital trail of all transactions), including purchases at gun shows and sales between private parties.


Gun show purchases still must undergo background checks for the purchaser. BATF undercover agents often conduct sting operations at gun shows to trap the unwary who participate in gun sales.
 
 
+1 # HooverBush 2012-04-16 11:26
LOL---Ole Mitt says he shoots Rodents ---Varmints.

Would that be considered suicide?!?!

Just sayin'
 

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