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Talbot writes: "The decision of some forty-three Roman Catholic dioceses, schools, and social services to sue the Obama Administration is both baffling and dismaying."

Cardinal Timothy Dolan. (photo: Michael Appleton/NYT/Redux)
Cardinal Timothy Dolan. (photo: Michael Appleton/NYT/Redux)



Catholics vs. Condoms

By Margaret Talbot, The New Yorker

31 May 12

 

he decision of some forty-three Roman Catholic dioceses, schools, and social services to sue the Obama Administration is both baffling and dismaying. The lawsuit, announced last week, takes aim at the proposed rule by which most employers would have to include contraception coverage in their health-insurance plans. Going to court will embed the Church in partisan politics and yoke it to the right wing. Not the worthiest of approaches - especially when the Administration has suggested a compromise, a means by which insurance companies, not the Catholic employers themselves, would pay for and administer birth-control coverage, and was still taking public comments on it.

The compromise is actually impractical, since so many Catholic employers, like most other large employers in the United States, insure themselves rather than contracting out, but still it was the start of a discussion, and some prominent Catholics greeted it as such. “I am really appreciative of what the President did,” said the Reverend Gregory Lucey, the president of the Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities, in February. “I’m optimistic and hopeful, and feel the religious liberty-issue is addressed.” Then, too, Catholics and non-Catholics alike could be forgiven for wondering if the church’s legal resources weren’t stretched pretty thin defending itself in cases involving child abuse and its cover-up.

The larger question is who the plaintiffs are really speaking for. The Catholic agencies that are suing and those who support them know that they represent a point of view outside the mainstream. They say so, proudly. The majority of Americans do not believe that contraception is a sin or that denying it to women is a moral good. But that alone is not the problem. After all, conscience and belief often dictate a lonely stance.

Still, it’s reasonable to think that the Church hierarchy could at least convince Catholics themselves. It would be sensible to expect that those who’d been most exposed to the theology behind the Church’s ban on contraception would be far more likely than the rest of us to endorse and live by it. But, as a Guttmacher Institute survey released earlier this year shows, that does not seem to be the case. Ninety-eight per cent of Catholic women have used contraception during their lives (compared to ninety-nine per cent of all women.) Eighty-three per cent of Catholic women who are not pregnant, not postpartum, and not seeking to get pregnant are currently using methods of birth control including the pill, sterilization, the I.U.D. or condoms. Selective inattention to the tenets of one’s faith is a fact of life. So is hypocrisy. But a gulf this wide between teaching and practice is remarkable. It suggests that many Catholic women simply do not believe that birth control is wrong. And it does not bode well for the Church’s campaign to convince the rest of us that it is.

Moreover, the aggressive legal strategy that the Church is pursuing is perplexing because it seems likely to fail. The constitutional argument - that requiring employers to provide contraception coverage as part of their health-care plans violates First Amendment guarantees of religious freedom - has been tried before, and has not persuaded the courts. At least three cases in recent years establish relevant precedents.

In 2004, the Catholic Charities of Sacramento, a social-service organization, brought suit over the Women’s Contraception Equity Law, which required it to provide its employees with contraception coverage. The law made an exception for churches, just as the Obama regulation does, based on the criteria that such “religious employers” primarily hire people who embrace the tenets of the faith and exist mainly to inculcate religious beliefs, but Catholic Charities did not qualify on those grounds. The California State Supreme Court ruled against it. In doing so, the judges cited the U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling in the 1990 case Employment Division, Dept. of Human Resources of Oregon v. Smith: “The right of free exercise does not relieve an individual of the obligation to comply with a ‘valid and neutral law of general applicability on the ground that the law proscribes (or prescribes) conduct that his religion prescribes (or proscribes.)’ ” A law of general applicability that served a legitimate state interest was not unconstitutional even if it placed a burden on a religious practice. It was unconstitutional only if its intent was to do so. The Women’s Contraception Equity Law had sought to end gender inequity in health insurance: women pay sixty-eight per cent more out of pocket for health care than men do, primarily because of the costs of prescription contraceptives and the health consequences of pregnancy. Its intent - like that of the Obama regulation - was not to punish Catholics but to promote women’s health care.

In 2006, when Catholic Charities and nine other religiously affiliated social-serves groups sued the state of New York over a similar law, the New York Women’s Health and Wellness Act, which also required employers to cover contraception, the New York State Supreme Court came to the same conclusion.

And in March of this year, a U.S. District Judge in Massachusetts ruled against the United States Conference of Bishops, over a program in which the U.S.C.B. used federal funds to run services for victims of human trafficking but barred its subcontractors from offering contraception counseling or referrals. (This was despite the fact that many of the people served were victims of rape, sexual abuse, or forced prostitution.) This case, said the Judge Richard Stearns, was about religious freedom, in a way. But not in the way the bishops saw it. It was about the problem of letting the government “delegate to a religious institution the right to use taxpayer money to impose its beliefs on others (who may or may not share them.)”

No one is challenging the rights of those Catholics who object to birth control to eschew it themselves, and to denounce it in public. But the lawsuit proposes something different: namely, that religious freedom means they can deny access to birth control to people who don’t share their faith or that article of it. It doesn’t.

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+133 # neohip 2012-05-31 13:07
This is what finally motivates the catholic church to act???? Really??? With all the unChristlike behavior that has been paraded lately, this is what, ooh I'm steamed, I'm telling you-this is what gets them moving?? No wonder people are leaving the church. Oh the stupidity! What about illegal wars? The financial wholesale stealing from the poor, depleted uranium dipped ammunition? Thankful that my personal vision for the world far out paces that of any organized church.
 
 
+86 # letsfixit 2012-05-31 14:32
The catholic church and it's definition of "Christian" and how they act it out- just galls me.
 
 
+56 # John Locke 2012-05-31 15:03
Now you have an idea why this church membership is in a decline... One fraud after another...pries ts who are perverts, the Pope with secret activities that he is afraid of being outed for, and a general dark age theory of denial ... they are against birth control because they want more followers, which means more money...
the Catholic church is a bad joke, and whats worse is some people actually buy into their nonsense!

They are so out of step with reality that their following is generally the lower 1% of the 99% whose thinking is impaired anyway, by a lack of education and they are devout in their belief in god because they have no belief in themselves!
 
 
-49 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 19:48
Wow you know about as much about Christianity, Catholics, Popes as you do anything else...ZERO GOP Hatred again follows you
 
 
+14 # rsnfan 2012-05-31 23:08
You need to read "Render Unto Rome: the Secret Life of Money in the Vatican" by Jason Berry or listen to the CD of the book.
 
 
-46 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 19:47
What Galls me is people who condemn out of lies a Church that Christianity is built on...rest of the white religions were cop outs who were greedy and wanted wives perhaps young ones....
We do not have to define Christianity, Jesus did.
 
 
+9 # John Locke 2012-06-01 17:48
KittatinyHawk: Please open your mind and read about the scams of the Catholic Church. Including the phony relics, the forged will of constintine, initially giving the church all of Rome! a good book if you can find it is "The 2000 year Deception" hard to find because it names all the scams of the Catholic Church!

The Church came into its own by supporting Constintine in his bid to become absolute ruler of Rome! The Jews refused to be a part of his army...and the catholics provided a 1,000,000 man army in exchange for being the recognized religion of Rome, They built their new temples over the Pagen sites and followed the Pagan holidays and rituals...The 12 deciples are nothing more then the Zodiac...and angel-Christolo gy is from Pagan origin...
 
 
+6 # Quickmatch 2012-06-02 16:44
Jesus taught a way of attending to life that was radical ans unique to the time: love v. hate; respect for women v. holding them chattel; charity for all in need v. just those of family, friend or faith. Men (specifically men) took Jesus' message and built it into a system of religious process that befenited the builders. It's that system today that fights to keep its hold on the minds and purses of the faithful. Keeping women and gays from power in the process is what it's about. The church is a corporation going about corporate business--Jesus has become a trademark to be used for the betterment of the business and its leadership.
 
 
+14 # RLF 2012-06-01 05:49
A musician friend who works at many catholic churches and is gay says "Oh Please It is a Homo club". His words.
 
 
-34 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 19:46
nice that 68 of you actually know anything about the Catholic Church anymore than you do Mormons or Buddhists.
I am overwhelmed that the same believe tha only Catholic Priests are capable of Pedophilia. So then that means the 68 are all GOP who know absolutely nothing about everything per usual
 
 
+120 # isafakir 2012-05-31 13:07
this is the church i left 60 years ago... basically controlling and merciless and patriarchal run by old men for the benefit of old men with money.
 
 
+35 # leedeegirl 2012-05-31 18:17
Quoting isafakir:
this is the church i left 60 years ago... basically controlling and merciless and patriarchal run by old men for the benefit of old men with money.


along with the "Mormon church"!!!!
 
 
-40 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 19:49
Really kind of funny Catholic Church persons were the ones in Hospitals, Hospices, at the side of people in all neighborhoods at all times of night....Glad you left
 
 
+10 # John Locke 2012-06-01 17:57
KittatinyHawk: Please stop your ranting, you are incorrect...its people that help people, an example, catholic cherities in Las Vegas provide sleeping quarters for the homeless but only if they can pay for it, so they have to stand on a corner somewhere to get enough money to pay the church to allow them a place to sleep... I know, I lived there and talked about this on the radio! when I co hosted a talk show! Its all about the money with this church...You also talk about the mormons...I also know about them...they actually help their people who can't pay their mortgage by paying it for them for some time and providing them food to feed their family...
 
 
+160 # jack406 2012-05-31 13:19
At what point does the Catholic Church become a political organization and lose it's tax-exempt status?
 
 
+82 # CoyoteMan50 2012-05-31 14:43
I agree. This so called "religious" organications should be required to pay taxes and provide an accounting of where the faithful's money goes.
 
 
-53 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 19:53
We do acvcount for every penny except when they give a family not working the rent or mortgage, even the medical Perhaps you should know more before posting you hypocrite
We will pay when the Whore Religions do
 
 
+34 # humanmancalvin 2012-06-01 05:23
K.Hawk writes "We will pay when the Whore Religions do "
Obviously it is AOK for you to bash & insult religion as long as it is not your religious choice that is being bashed. This is what would be considered hypocritical my friend. The gall of organized religions that all promote their ancient & superstitious beliefs as THE only true path to their version of the so-called God. There is no doubt the Catholic church, among many others, provide a good amount of charity to the worlds poor. It is also true that the Popes church teaches (&threatens w/ damnation) large groups of uneducated Africans from various countries that is a cardinal sin to ever for any reason use a condom. Even in the highest AIDS virus per capita communities. This is in my eyes murder, plain & simple. The Hate all things gay & lesbian yet throughout the long course of church history turn a blind eye to homosexual & pedophiliac behavior perpetrated by their very own priests. This church along with its cousins, the Evangelicals, the Mormons, the Muslims, all share a long history of hate & murder in its name. Way past time to take away their tax exempt status as they preach politics from their bully pulpits everyday. Their trumped up War On Religion is another bad joke. They are the ones constantly attempting to push their beliefs on everybody else, not the opposite. If by remote chance there is a God or a Jesus, etc. in heaven he must be choking on his jelly donut over these hypocrites.
 
 
+13 # John Locke 2012-06-01 18:01
humanmancalvin: Thank you for your comment! I fully agree with it.
 
 
+17 # Churchlady320 2012-06-01 14:50
As one Protestant quite distressed with the tax-supported Catholic institutions wanting their rights at the expense of their non-Catholic employees, I nevertheless DO honor and regard what you are saying. We are progressive on ALL issues in my organization, and we won't agree with the Church on sexual justice concerns. But I have never seen the Catholics with whom I work on poverty, justice, anti-death penalty, immigration rights, or any other issue put a foot wrong. I love the nuns I know and the secular workers - best folks ever. This move by the Church is hurtful to US in the Protestant world for whom contraception is a deeply held moral value about care for creation. But that does not undermine my regard for all that you say about the church's care for those in need. I certainly hope you take back YOUR comment about "Whore Religions" since we all go nowhere fast on that.
 
 
-6 # sharon bourassa 2012-06-01 18:03
Dear KittatinyHawk:

You are so right. I can't tell you how many people we give rent money, pay mortgages, medical bills, etc. I have lost count. I wonder how many of the catholic haters on this site actually put their money where their mouths are.
 
 
+3 # Churchlady320 2012-06-01 14:46
That is so short sighted. The progressive churches, ones with NO money, would disappear, leaving you with only the rich and powerful albeit conservative ones. There are distinct rules that pertain to ALL non-profits. The church tends to obey them simply because they are so wealthy. But when you tar with the same brush, the ones who get hurt are those of us YOU would like to have support GLBT equality, women's reproductive rights, etc. We are large in numbers, small in money, so be careful of your wishes.
 
 
+13 # rhgreen 2012-05-31 18:14
This is the best comment here.
 
 
-40 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 19:51
When will yours....our priests, nuns, layment do not make millions on poor...lying all the way to the bank.

Know what I really loved was the ones with wives with fake boobs, bleached hair and dressed like hookers...proba bly why the collection plates got so much, men's guilt for their hard ons and the Ministers counted on it. Phony Whores is what i see in other White Faiths
 
 
+25 # lmorneweck 2012-05-31 20:20
You do realize that there are churches out there that are neither Catholic or Tele-Evangelica l, right? There are good and bad in all faiths. Quit painting with such broad strokes and quit talking like you have all the answers. Be still and listen for the voice of God.
 
 
+26 # humanmancalvin 2012-06-01 05:26
The ill-informed K.Hawk continues her? lack of sense & facts: "When will yours....our priests, nuns, layment do not make millions on poor...lying all the way to the bank.
The Catholic church is one of the wealthiest corporations on the planet. They even own their own bank & country. Hard to argue with the totally misinformed.
 
 
0 # Churchlady320 2012-06-07 15:17
Did you even READ what I wrote to you? You think you have the only morality in town? I disagree with the Church but not with Catholics putting faith in action, and you keep calling everyone else names while clasping morality to your breast. You may have legit criticisms of televangelists some of us agree with, but you're wallowing in the mud making the criticisms. You are totally discrediting yourself.
 
 
+13 # RMDC 2012-06-01 06:13
The catholic church has always been a political organization. Vatican City is a state with foreign ambassadors. The Church via St. Augustine thought of itself as the successor to the Roman Empire -- thus the Holy Roman Empire which worked through kings in various nations to carry out the political will of the Pope. Charlemange was the first King to be crowned Holy Roman Emperor. But he was only working for the Pope.

But governments are not taxed either.

The story of how the Calthoic Church came to hate sex is quite an interesting one. Its history is will known. There ar many books on it, Try Ute Ranke Heineman, Eunuch for the Kingdom of God. The key fact is that the Roman Catholic Church developed its doctrines at the time when stoicism, asecticism, and gnosticism dominated the mediterranean world. Those perverted movements still dominate the Roman Catholic view of Christianity. They are all based on a hatred for the body and for sex. They all oppose the soul to the body.

The truth is that the soul is in the body. They are the same things. The mind is also in the body, again the same things.
 
 
+6 # bluepilgrim 2012-06-01 14:42
You must mean 'at what point does it lose its tax exempt status' -- it has ALWAYS been a political organization, right from its beginning.
 
 
-101 # PastorEd 2012-05-31 13:19
At the risk of over-simplifying:
The topic is a difficult challenge for our society. With a little bit of adjustment on the part of leaders of religious organizations, and little bit of adjustment on the part of the gov't, a resolution could be reached.

Two predominant problems here:
1. The 0. administration still undermines individual rights with the current law it managed to get passed. In Constitutional terms, it's unconstitutiona l.

2. The real difficulty in the above article lies with the author's comment that the Catholic Church by going to court would be "yoked" to the right wing.
Matters of constitutionali ty are not issues of the left or right. How does the Constitution read on an issue? Does a law violate the wording on that issue?
Well then, it's unconstitutiona l.

The government of the U.S. is required by the Constitution to "regulate" commerce between States. That is, to be certain that commerce between the States is regular and normal. The government of the U.S. does not have the authority from the Constitution to force individual commercial behavior.
 
 
+80 # Inland Jim 2012-05-31 13:37
So... God says the Civil Rights Act is unconstitutiona l, too? Amazing what the outhouse lawyers can come up with.
 
 
+112 # conniejo 2012-05-31 14:11
If the Catholic church follows through with using its resources for this lawsuit over what is a political issue, I believe the government should act to remove its tax-exempt status.
 
 
-29 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 20:00
We have some morals in our faith...most of our nuns donot look like hookers.
This is really an issue about Companies paying for Medical Coverage...noth ing about what religion it is unbiased on that tenant. It is expecting all Employers to give Women the right to birth Control. I believe it should give men also esp since they are the ones who give date rape and alcohol to many unknowing women.
This is a free Country so the Catholic Church can do what it wants. It is a bit stupid but it is their rights to protect the Catholic Run Hospitals who give lots of free care, Catholic Run Schools who also give free education. It is against their Faith, their Doctrine to allow abortions and pills to control birth.
However most of you are pretty dumb because we started "Planned Parenthood" which does help people to control contraception, and did try to do so for kids. Read up or stay GOP I rather fight with knowledge than text stupdity

By the way I am Catholic, we were taught birth control, we were taught not to be sluts. But no one put a gun to my head an made me have children nor shot me for not having more...grow up Your are even here being fed lies about Catholicism
 
 
+34 # bingers 2012-05-31 15:08
Does a law violate the wording on that issue?
Well then, it's unconstitutiona l.

The government of the U.S. is required by the Constitution to "regulate" commerce between States. That is, to be certain that commerce between the States is regular and normal. The government of the U.S. does not have the authority from the Constitution to force individual commercial behavior.

Excuse me, but supporting an establishment of religion is what is unconstitutiona l. The government is in violation of the constitution if it allows the church to NOT provide contraception or abortion help which is supporting an establishment of religion. It's also in violation of the constitution by not collecting taxes from the church.
 
 
-29 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 20:02
So all Churches, Temples in the USA pays taxes give me a break..where did you ever hear that.
People invented Religions just to be tax exempt. By the way Catholic Church does pay taxes...start reading up...Priests pay taxes on their salaries always did. Stupidity is alive and well on RSN
 
 
+12 # humanmancalvin 2012-06-01 05:35
You can say that again.
 
 
+9 # John Locke 2012-06-01 18:10
KittatinyHawk: You are being less then candid here, Priests do pay Taxes the Church does Not!
 
 
+77 # Brooklyn Girl 2012-05-31 15:13
This law has no effect on Catholics. They can still choose not to use birth control. They, however, have no right to limit the rights of others.
 
 
-36 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 20:07
Thank you it takes those of us who understand the law.
Law is seen by the Catholic Run Businesses as against their Faith. I can understand them as they have upheld no abortions. But as a Catholic I was never forbidden birth control, we were taught it. We were also taught not to give it all on the first minute. The other Churches are still jealous of us because we are the First Christian Church founded by Jesus Christ. They ran instead of making our Faith better, richer. Most wanted money, and sex many with really young women..some with men
Pedophilia goes back in history Catholics didnot invent. If all the rapists, child porn were Catholics...the crime would be solved...no more deviants.
The Losers are too stupid to think that one out
 
 
-10 # sharon bourassa 2012-06-01 18:06
why should i pay for you to have sex. I am too busy paying for assistance to the real poor who have real problems. Go get your own sex stuff.
 
 
+25 # jc Atlanta 2012-05-31 15:40
In the novel 1984, O'Brien, the party member reeducating Winston Smith, explained to Winston that the purpose of power was power. Not a means to an end, power was the end. Many Catholic positions, including the one concerning enforced contraception, are rooted in its belief in the sanctity of all life. This is bound to aggravate the disagreements between modern (or even non-modern) women and the Church over women's reproductive rights. It's hard to tell whether, in this situation, power for its own sake is the motive, or power for morality's sake. Our society in general, and women in particular, definitely believe the former is the motive. It's a classic clash between a relativist and an absolutist concept of morality—and the relativist always wins, as it did even during the Inquisition. So, it looks like power for its own sake, given the intransigence of the Church.
 
 
-24 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 20:12
Catholics are not the only ones with strict laws. There are much stricter...men who are allowed even sanctioned to beat women, break in their daughters perhaps sons, tell women what they can wear, make them wear clothes that make them unlikable to other man's eyes.
Catholicism has its points of dark ages but their are many Faiths that are the Dark Ages

Catholics are no different than other Faiths we have those who marry Jesus, others who follow Jesus, others who follow the laws of Jesus, others who have paved new roads in stone. We just do not make a class system of our Faithful calling each section names and prejudice against them.

Most women have always had the sense to say yes dear! to the laws of man and church. We just always had the dignity not to wash either in the fact
 
 
+18 # Dion Giles 2012-06-01 01:17
It is unfortunate that defenders of a religion feel driven to defend its authoritarian edicts by endless references to how bad the other ones are. Sure there are many other faiths that are also Dark Ages. Enemies of liberty the lot of them.
 
 
+34 # John Locke 2012-05-31 17:46
PastorEd: we are not speaking here about commercial behavior, we are speaking hear about private behavior. The right of women! Their right to determine their own body and pregnancy...Old men whose orientation may be gay...have no right to impose their will on women! or to force them to have children simply because the Church NEEDS more followers! The Catholic Church has always been for control of its followers even to the extent of Galileo being excommunicated because he spoke the truth, The Earth was NOT the center of the Universe! What the Church didn't want out...Or the Church's refusal to allow the lay public to read the Bible for centuries! Their fear that the lay public might abandon the church!

The bishops and Pope form an old fashioned Church that has No right to become involved in a political debate!
 
 
-28 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 20:17
Now you are defending the rights of Women..do not do me any favor
Since when could we not read the bible? Our passages come from the bible...how stupid is that

Yo all Churches need followers isn't that what the Church is full of Followers? Why else did any Church or
Temple even form, who formed and followed the rabbits? Your are so ignorant read your own words.
We were taught the Bible, New Testament First, we had theology courses before most other Faiths knew what Theology was.

All Priests are Gay....Than it shows that man has no ability to follow his heart, his beliefs, his morals. You are saying that All Priests are GAY That all men who gave their lives up to Follow the Lord, Pray for man, Study the Universe and Faith are GAY. You show your ignorance every blog I read.
 
 
+13 # John Locke 2012-06-01 18:32
KittatinyHawk: Try reading more and believing less on faith. But not the bible which is a fabrication of men at best...it IS not written by the hand of God it was selective writings of Constintine in the 4th century to build the church! other views were withheld from the books of the bible your catholic upbringing in defense of a fairy tale is coming across, my wife left the church in her teens, she was smart enough even then to see it for the fraud it was!

Constantine began what was to become a centuries long effort to eliminate any book in the original Bible that was considered unacceptable to the new doctrine of the church. At that time, it is believed there were up to 600 books, which comprised the work we now know as the Bible. Through a series of decisions made by the early church leadership, all but 80 of those books, known as the King James Translation of 1611, were purged from the work, with a further reduction by the Protestant Reformation bringing the number to 66 in the "Authorized" King James Bible. by unacceptable they mean anything that was negative to the furtherance of the Church
 
 
+26 # Pancho 2012-05-31 19:50
At first I thought you must be kidding, giving a satirical defense of the bishops' policy. But then you wrote: "Matters of constitutionali ty are not issues of the left or right. How does the Constitution read on an issue?"

The worst decisions made by the court in the last 200 years were decided on political grounds, not constitutional ones.

The best view of them is to read some of the roaring dissents in Dred Scott (McLean), Plessy v. Ferguson (Harlan), Korematsu (Jackson) as well as Bush v. Gore and Citizens United (Stevens).

In Scott, Bush v. Gore and Citizens United, the Court even decided issues that were not properly before it.

Smith v. Oregon, quoted here, was another stinker. Two Native American counselors were fired from a substance abuse treatment program because they had used a tiny amount of peyote in an Indian religious service the previous weekend. They were refused unemployment compensation on the grounds their dismissal was justified. The Supremes upheld what it construed was the right of the employer to claim that it was harmed by the off duty religious activity of its employees, and that the state was correct in refusing unemployment compensation to the two men.

Do you think that Obamacare will be decided objectively, based on Constitutional reasoning?

I don't know if the whole bill or parts would fall, if given a fair hearing. I can predict, however, that the hearing will be anything but fair.
 
 
+11 # humanmancalvin 2012-06-01 05:34
The GOP subverts the constitution on a daily basis. The O. administration performing all these unconstitutiona l acts as you & the other Radical Right Insurgegents clain is simply one big bag of BS. Reason it out (if at all possible PastorEd) if the GOP pols had even the slightest most minute iota of any proof to these ridiculous claims then they would be spending more billions than they currently already are to initiate impeachment hearings. Look at the shameless way they attacked President Clinton when in the end the only ridiculous "crime" they could nail on him was not even a crime. Consensual sex between 2 adults is not a crime if perhaps you did not know that. So why no impeachment hearings against our president? Well hello its all complete fantasy & driven by the hatred they have for the Black Man in the White House.
 
 
+9 # coach777b 2012-06-01 08:39
Pastor Ed, I did a search to see if you were an unknown, tenth member of the Supreme Court. Guess what? NOT! You make a statement, rule it unconstitutiona l and expect readers to say "case closed, Pastor Ed has ruled". Ain't gona happen! You will need some facts here to back up your 'rulings' and you have none.
 
 
+130 # Regina 2012-05-31 13:31
I find no provision in the U. S. Constitution that directs American people to accept the dicta of the Catholic church. Their claim that our human rights as women violate their religious liberty violates our Constitution. Catholics are free to practice their religion, but their hierarchy of power may not impose it on the rest of us. The church's -- and indeed, ALL religions' -- ingrained misogyny must never be allowed to deprive women of their hard-won secular freedoms.
 
 
+43 # Old Man 2012-05-31 14:00
Is Karl Rove behind this or what?
It's the perfect dirty trick to pull, making it harder to re-elect President Obama.......Oba ma 2012.
 
 
+68 # bbaldwin 2012-05-31 14:04
...and the Pope goes on. The Catholic church is loosing members in large numbers only because it is still living ing the 16th Century.
 
 
+23 # tazia@aol.com 2012-05-31 15:38
I would look ore towards the 12th and 13th centuries...
 
 
-26 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 20:26
So are the other Churches except the whack jobs Catholics will always be number one..we were chosen Live with it Cannot take it away from us

Pope is not crucifying or burning anyone at the stake He has all you hypocrites doing it for him
 
 
+63 # angelfish 2012-05-31 14:20
Where does it say that ANY Roman Catholic employee MUST avail themselves of Contraceptive products or information? Furthermore, what business is it of the "church" if ANY American is able to avail themselves of such information? This is a Nuisance Suit brought about by a Wealthy Hierarchy that finds the need to make an Issue out of NOTHING! Best to remember that "He who troubleth his own house shall inherit the Wind"!
 
 
+38 # jwb110 2012-05-31 14:22
I actually have never heard from the anti-contracept ive movement one single word about closing down companies who make condoms because of a violation of their beliefs.
What's sauce for the goose is gravy for the gander, fellows.
 
 
-12 # sharon bourassa 2012-06-01 18:09
man you are missing the point here. we caholics do not want to pay for a woman to be sterilized or to get the morning after pill. it is our faith. people can pay for their own condoms. they don't cost much. i pay enough in taxes now.
 
 
+33 # cordleycoit 2012-05-31 14:24
Looks like the Tea Party is now the Catholic Party. The Arch bishop of Dublin Duffy who blessed the fascists when they set sail for Spain to overthrow the Spanish Republic.
Count on the Fathers and Brothers to protect the choir boys from the evil lefties who unlike the priests get to use condoms.
 
 
-20 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 20:29
No I believe all of you who know nothing about anything are the TP go learn how to use a search engine since going to school is above you
 
 
-61 # sharon bourassa 2012-05-31 14:24
I M legal aid lawyer and have worked representing the poor for 30 years. Iam so blessed to do so. I am also a good Catholic-NOW. I started out walking the walk, left and talked the walk. After 20 years I returned and now walk the walk. I am the face of the church-NOW. I studied the history of the church and found out that there are very good reasons for what the church teaches. Does the church have bad people in it. Of course.Jesus had 12 apostles and one caused his murder.However, I am talking about me- I am the church. Each one of my 6 sisters and brothers at one time, turned away from caholicism. They too talked the walk.NOW they walk the walk. I used birth control at one time; when I talked the walk. Then I got cancer and the doctors took me off the pills. The hormones built up in my uterus. They hurt me. My sister had an abortion and after 10 years when into a severe depression. My mom and dad lost a grandchild and we lost a niece or nephew. I adopted my first child, a baby at 6 weeks. His mom who was Catholic chose life and as a result I have 3 grandchildren from him. My son's in-laws, who talk the walk,pressured them to abort the child. I saw the new baby in the womb as my grandchild.My son and his wife had Kyle and he is beautiful. Why do I love my church? I adopted my son from Catholic Charities. His natural mom was supported by the church to not abort. I feel Jesus Christ when I receive Him. I love the Mass. And, NOW I understand the chruch. God bless.
 
 
+64 # aitengri 2012-05-31 14:53
Dear Ms. Bourassa: I lost track of the "talk walking" and "walk talking" metaphor you used, but I respect your account of your life experience. Your choices seem to have come from deep introspection and commitment. Nonetheless, you do generalize from the very unique specifics of your family. Your "love" of your church should not include love of the child abusing priests, nor the social crises brought about by the millions of unwanted children who outnumber the wanted adoptees by huge multiples. I won't go on here with some sort of lecture. The church is not unique in fostering a weird belief system regarding the Jesus person. Most of the Protestant sects share that, and pay the price of abusing their "god given" intelligence as a result. We do need freedom from this truly mind abusing "faith".
 
 
+21 # letsfixit 2012-05-31 16:00
Amen
 
 
-22 # sharon bourassa 2012-05-31 18:33
Dear Aitengri: You may need freedom from this "truly mind abusing 'faith' but I do not. I am in love with my faith. I don't believe for one minute my 'god given' intelligence as been abused. My intelligence as a 30 year legal aid lawyer has served my clients well. You are quick to attack me. Read my first comment. My love of my church in NO WAY includes love of child abusers. They have nothing to do with my faith. They are not my church. They are bad people in my church. You are attacking my faith and lumping us all into one soup pot. This is my faith you are talking about. My very inner being. Such hate I feel from some of these comments. More than I care to endure. I deal with hate all day long as an advocate for justice. It is because of my faith that I can help many people with my craft. But I became a lawyer for the poor becaue of what my parents taught me and what I learned from my catholic upbringing. Sorry if that truth bothers so many of you.
 
 
-18 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 20:41
These people are GOP/TP they are not worth the space they take up
 
 
-17 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 20:40
Than k you for again solving the Pedophiles being Catholics alone..please get out those ropes and lighters and the world will be cleansed...
All religions are weird always have been
but they have given many hope That you have no right to take away.
 
 
+14 # hobbesian 2012-05-31 15:05
OMG
 
 
-29 # Joeconserve 2012-05-31 15:10
You are the only one, among the various respondents to this article, who understands what life is all about and why the Church is so important in the protection of life. I salute you! I, too, love the Mass.
 
 
+49 # kyzipster 2012-05-31 15:30
The subject is not abortion, it's birth control, you know, a tried and true method used to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

Your only defense of the church is that 'there are very good reasons for what the church does'. I call that blind faith.
 
 
-22 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 20:42
It was a great group. We have the right to follow our Faith...as all are blind in so many ways.

Birth Control is Planned Parenthood which was founded by oops didn't ya know
 
 
+30 # letsfixit 2012-05-31 16:20
When people talk about their "six brothers and sisters" I always wonder if "mom" was pregnant for 7 times 9 months= 63 months - and was there one month between each 9 nine month period?

Did mom want to be pregnant for almost six years of her life? Did SHE have a choice? Did she have seven kids under 10 in the house? Did she want that or did the church guilt her into it?
 
 
-17 # sharon bourassa 2012-05-31 18:20
My mom is now 88 and loves her life as a Roman Catholic. A woman you would love if you knew her. She and my dad who is 90 loved having their children. Actually, she loved each baby and the first 3 came within 5 yeras of each other and then none for about 5 years and then came 3 more. She wishes she had more children because she gets such a kick out of all of us. The church did not guilt my mom. No one can guilt my mom. She has so much love in her and faith. Her life has been full and is full. She was a nurse as well and my dad is a WWII veteran who has taken in the homeless when no one else would. My mom is fun and even at 88, loves life. She is the Catholic church. The pedophile priests are not. Those who abuse people are not the church. I say take away our tax exempt status. I really don't care; even if I pay a good amount in taxes and am proud to do so. My dad said to me sometime last year: Sharon, I love you all so much. I wish I had more of you. . I do not operate on blind faith. I have lived too long for that. I know that life is precious, all of it. I as a catholic cannot support sterilization or the morning after pill. If this is the price I must pay, then I say: take away our tax status. I realize the subject is birth control. Obviously you missed the point about my cancer. It was no joke.If you want condoms, go to Planned Parenthood.Howe ver,I want my taxes to go towards things that do not inpinge on my faith. Unless you know my family "letsfixit" do not judge them.
 
 
-15 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 20:47
Planned Parenthood was Catholic to stop children pregnancies. Poor didnot have the ability to afford the abortions the rich did and do

Ignore the Ignorant...Glad you love your parents. They have been rewarded deeply
 
 
0 # MJnevetS 2012-06-03 22:55
Quoting KittatinyHawk:
Planned Parenthood was Catholic to stop children pregnancies.
OMG! You are out of your mind! Margaret Sanger began (I think it was first called the 'Women's Abortion League') which became Planned Parenthood. While her mother was Catholic, her father was a Catholic turned Atheist and Margaret was not spouting Catholic dogma, in fact what she did and said was all in violation of the precepts of the Catholic church. You might as well claim that it was an orthodox Kosher rabbinical group which founded the National Pork Producers Council. The depth and breadth of your ignorance is truly astounding. Stop making sh!t up!
 
 
-20 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 20:45
Do you know anything about sex? did you ever have a dog, cat or rabbit? Biology one take it next year

If you look thru out Europe all faiths had children like rabbits to help with farm and business. DUH Started in Bible if you read it they were Jewish Faith....I forget how many kids Noah had or Abraham but enough to fill some boats eh?

Ignorance is bliss
 
 
+1 # John Locke 2012-06-03 08:36
Abraham had concubines (plural) so in your mind does that mean the Mormon faith must have been correct allowing multiple wives!
 
 
-20 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 20:38
Yes the idiots do not understand as they are mostly in hs or grade school or perhaps just toooo dumb to actually research.
I was part of the Dakkon Shield, I hemorraged for months. No Pope sought me out to burn me, or put me in a yoke. I refused pills due to cancer, it was real still is. I also remember sugar substitutes killing people.
Most people here were taught like sheep to hate Catholics and do so. They come here pretending to have intelligence, to be in with current issues but the fact is most people are ignorant and prefer it. Most here are GOP followers, same as the sheep following Mitt the nit...look at the resemblence, listen to their chatter.
I never left, I just do not pay for God. I will help, volunteer, donate to cause but I do not sanction paying for Religion. I will support Nuns but Priests have bed board and salaries....how ever, they are not living on Yachts, doing drugs, and drumming up millions from poor on fear.
Some idiot on here said we were not allowed to read the Bible....We invented Theology, I believe that is research and History of .... again Ignorance is Bliss

I preferred the Latin Mass. I remember being a part of it. I went to Catholic school for 12 years never touched by hand, only in my heart and mind. Love was given freely Jesus was real not someone drummed up to raise money for greed.

Pedophiles....i f they were Catholic alone, Sherlock...than lock them up and the world is saved.
 
 
+9 # rsnfan 2012-05-31 23:23
You also need to read "Render Unto Rome: The Secret Life of Money in the Vatican by Jason Berry.
 
 
+44 # CoyoteMan50 2012-05-31 14:41
Proves to me that the Catholic Church is just the overdressed uptight wing of the Far Right Wing loonie toons.
 
 
+22 # tazia@aol.com 2012-05-31 15:47
You should have stopped at "Proves to me that"...just look at their record regarding women in the priesthood, contraception and freedom for women to choose what is best for their reproductive healthcare.If a man wore a dress out in public and was not affiliated with the CC, he would be ridiculed and called a variety of vle names...
 
 
-22 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 20:53
Pleae do tell me all your knowledge...it seems most of you are too ignorant to read back past last week news.
Jewish wore robes as did all that came after....Tailor s were for the elite and soldiers much later. Men never had any problem wearing robes they were comfortable, warm and cool. They were modest, you could walk, ride, sit even cross rivers. You must have a problem facing or more likely reading

Church advocated women' rights. We respect the Fact that Women were Chosen to Carry Children in our Wombs....you GOP are still in envy according to the Laws lately. You believe in women being beaten, subservient.... Church never taught us to walk behind, but to walk aside our mate. Walk With Our Children...too bad you all have such little experience with true Faith

We also didn't run from our faith so we could have more of everything
 
 
+56 # pontifex 2012-05-31 14:42
There is a joke that is told in Paraguay, where everybody knows that president Lugo, who used to be a bishop of the Catholic Church, has "produced" at least seven children. Asked why he did not use condoms, he answered: "I can't! the Pope is against them!".
 
 
+29 # Regina 2012-05-31 16:50
There was a 17th century archbishop of Salzburg, Austria, who fathered 15 children with his mistress, and had his hands on enough money to build her a castle there. The hypocrisy is unbounded.
 
 
-18 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 20:55
Your point is what man sins...WOW that is amazing again only Catholic Men sin
Get them ropes and lighters out sister
Remember to throw the first stone when you are at the next mirror
 
 
-17 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 20:54
Sad it is the only joke you ever knew....and yes many did have children wow guess it proves men cannot keep it in their pants no matter what their faith
 
 
+5 # James38 2012-05-31 23:43
Takes two to tango.
 
 
+29 # dick 2012-05-31 14:45
OMG. I mean OMG. Should Christian Science employer health insurance not cover medical intervention? These guys have been sloshing down expensive wine & porking the choir boys too long. The MASSIVE criminal conspiracy to aid, abet, cover-up, & obstruct justice re child molesting isn't enough legal fees for them? They can't find needy victims to assist worldwide other than insurers? May God please NOT forgive them. Mel Gibson for Pope.
 
 
+62 # The Saint 2012-05-31 14:52
I was in D.C. when Pope Paul VI went against his own commission and reasserted the old prohibition on "artificial" birth control. What an uproar and great protests at Catholic U. and the Shrine. That was the beginning of the fouling of the fresh air of Vatican II. Catholics simply ignored the teachings and then came to discover that they could choose to disagree with other teachings against masturbation, pre-marital sex, divorce,etc etc. The emperor had not clothes--or few.I loved the social justice teachings, the liberation theology, the interreligious dialogue. Most of that is gone now, replaced by this cozy relationship with right wing evangelicals who used to hate Catholics (like Kennedy). Out of the rich theological tradition they latch onto the weakest part of natural law philosophy that has been thoroughly discredited elsewhere.Let's read The Grand Inquisitor
where Jesus is condemned to death by the Church for telling Christians that his message was love, freedom, justice.And so this group who hid and protected child molesters has the audacity to pontificate on sexual ethics? How many Catholic women in the past suffered horribly physically and psychologically because of unwanted pregnancies because their male hierarchy told them the male God would send them to hell for daring to control their bodies. Of course, there were/are no female priests or bishops to challenge this. The nuns are being told to shut up for straying off message. Sad for many who once had hope.
 
 
-18 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 21:01
Really what a load of bs. Artificial birth control was killing women ...I know I almost died of hemorrhaging from Dakkon Shield then the Pharms sent it to South American
But all Religions built on Fear, Hate hate the Catholic Church and here we are still carrying the cross. We are also the only ones who rape, pillage, plunder....Get the torches time for more witch hunts...and the Catholics are the only witches in the World
 
 
+15 # James38 2012-05-31 23:39
Sorry if you had a problem with the Dalkon shield. It was a terrible product, promoted fraudulently. It was introduced in the US and Puerto Rico. However, when it was proven to be defective, it was recalled and not sent by "the Pharms" to South America or anywhere else.

Millions of dollars were paid to victims of this device as the result of a class action lawsuit. (From Wikipedia) "The Dalkon Shield became infamous for its serious design flaw: a porous, multifilament string up which bacteria could travel into the uterus of users, leading to sepsis, injury, miscarriage, and death. Modern Intrauterine devices (IUDs) use monofilament strings which do not pose this grave risk to users."

It is unfair to make a blanket statement such as "Artificial birth control was killing women". That is propaganda.
 
 
+23 # hobbesian 2012-05-31 15:04
This is a very long and controlling reach into the lives of Catholics by the Catholic church; same sort of thing in Ontario, Canada, happening; Here in Ontario the government is debating legislation to introduce an anti-bullying bill to allow every school to have a Gay-Straight Alliance club, and the kids can call it what they want and use the words Gay/Straight. But the publicly funded Catholic schoolboard is "coming out" against it; they don't want the word "Gay" to be used; i wonder why... this must be a word with which their priests are very familiar, and clubs like these MUST be named in this way to make them safe for kids who need protection from bullies of ALL TYPES. IF they cannot even say the word "Gay" what hope is there for the Catholic church, and the priests who serve in them and all the altar boys;. Reminds me of the phrase: The love "......that dare not say its name" All these controlling devices and desires are deeply shaming to the Catholic Church.
 
 
-17 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 21:04
Deeply shaming to those who are again looking for witches to burn...let's get the Catholics.
I believe that most religions are not pro gay. Sorry, it just hasn't registered that same sex is okay...probably won't as long as politicians can use it ...
 
 
+25 # lesmcf 2012-05-31 15:10
The ban against birth control is not a Biblical edict, rather it is the Church's way to assure growth in their congregation. The more offspring, the more future parishoners.
 
 
+24 # panhead49 2012-05-31 15:19
Certainly no mystery here - when all you do is boink choir boys who needs birth control.
 
 
-17 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 21:05
Please get the ropes and lighters glad you found out that Catholics are the only pedophiles....
By the way is your faith one that believes it is okay to beat women and take lil girls
 
 
+16 # Jyl 2012-05-31 15:22
I believe, until the day finally arrives, that the Catholic Church stops "grooming" of young boys for its sexual preditors, it should stay mum, rather than to denigrate itself further. I cannot believe how vainly dumb this cult is. To actually associate itself with God, in any fashion, whatsoever, is completely fraudulent. This is where I was once educated and where I worshipped. I shall never forgive myself.
 
 
-18 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 21:07
Catholics are the only Pediphiles...pl ease notify the World so we can burn them all. Now there will be no more. thanks so much for ending this for all the boys and girls who are raped ...Catholics Imagine that someone like you figured that out

Please be the first to strike that match you of no sins
 
 
+33 # JSRaleigh 2012-05-31 15:32
It's long past time to revoke the tax exempt status of all religious organizations.
 
 
+27 # independentmind 2012-05-31 15:33
If you think about it - it shouldn't be an issue because all the good Catholics working for these institutions should not want to buy contraception, right? But isn't that the real problem? As the article states; most Catholics use contraception.
It really is time that the Pope and his boys club look at reality. A bunch of unmarried men can not understand the burden that having many children have on families. Their equally ridiculous stance on divorce (just call it annulling) is equally ignored by most Catholics. Those that choose to have many children often end up using some form of contraception when it becomes dangerous to either the woman's health to have more, or the children start having lower birth weights than previous children.
My mother (who is now in her 80's) was a staunch Catholic all her life, but always maintained that the Vatican was wrong in banning contraception and used it herself. She always maintained that it was a women's health issue, not something the Church should meddle in. Most Catholics appear to agree.
 
 
+28 # ghostperson 2012-05-31 15:35
Extinguish the 501(c)(3) tax exemption of the Catholic church and its affiliated organizations. They are profit based and are lobbyists.
 
 
+33 # rblee 2012-05-31 15:36
A Vatican official just commented that the recent exposing of Papal correspondence by the Pope's butler was immoral because people who wrote these documents thought they were conversing with God. (Pause. Breathe.) What's immoral is anybody maintaining that they are a conduit to any imaginary anthropomorphic supernatural entity. The rest of it stems from that.
 
 
-16 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 21:15
It is repeated over and over...the conversations. Only I really do not understand why this stupdity has continued.
I understand the family, farm, business...but we are past that need.
Neither God nor Jesus demanded continuation of pregnancy, in fact they hoped we understood the information on Earth and provisions no exhausting them.
But Catholics are not the only ones with such extreme issue of no abortion no birth control (using devices that could harm or pills) However, knowing that both can physically harm the woman and in fact harm the child, the commandment Thou Shalt Not Kill...of course those on here said we didn't read the Bible, duh
But I believe now the fanatics must part and let the new generation figure out fulfilling the wishes of the Creator can go further than childbearing.

I am so glad other Religions are so Godlike, so clean, never sinning. I cannot believe I never saw it before.
 
 
+21 # Kootenay Coyote 2012-05-31 15:39
Ah, Yes, holy Cardinal Dolan: & see today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/31/us/cardinal-authorized-payments-to-abusers.html
In Milwaukee Post, Cardinal Authorized Paying Abusers
By LAURIE GOODSTEIN
Published: May 30, 2012

Cardinal Timothy M. Dolan of New York authorized payments of as much as $20,000 to sexually abusive priests as an incentive for them to agree to dismissal from the priesthood when he was the archbishop of Milwaukee. Questioned at the time about the news that one particularly notorious pedophile cleric had been given a “payoff” to leave the priesthood, Cardinal Dolan, then the archbishop, responded that such an inference was “false, preposterous and unjust.” [excerpt]
 
 
-22 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 21:16
Get the crosses out, get the torches please throw the flame and kill all Catholics. We will be released from Evil
 
 
+23 # giraffee2012 2012-05-31 15:56
I'm a-religious so my opinion is that no religion has any place in my world to make rules for everyone to follow. If a person wants to follow what the person who "preaches" to them on Sundays (or whatever day) -- that's the problem of the person who listens.

BUT WHEN that "preacher" wants to sprout (spit out) to the rest of us about "their rules, ideologies" -- I draw the line.

The "bible" of laws of a U.S. citizen is found in the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights and one of the rules in those documents is "keep your religious beliefs" for you and your flock.

Otherwise follow the Rule of Law of the Land (i.e. Constitution/Bi ll of Rights)

Now the judges should toss these "church leaders" out on their "gowns of silk" and fine them for wasting tax dollars to bring the issue to a Court of Law (as stated above) - where only the Constitutions/B ill of Rights prevails.

The law says provide contraception devices - JUST DO IT. If you don't want your flock to use the contraception devices then settle that issue with your flock.

And that is my opinion.
 
 
+21 # noitall 2012-05-31 15:56
Tax the churches; tax the property of the churches! Then they can get as political as they want. The Catholic church should start following their teachings and begin supporting all those children that spring from their policies instead of brainwashing them, from birth, into tithing to the church as a sign of their religiousity. "the poorest of us shame us all" when applied to extablished churches, should shame them into changing their ways (so that they can go to heaven). Or don't they believe their own rhetoric?
 
 
-18 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 21:20
The tax is all Churches and Temples?

And most are already paying property taxes according to State..Read up
Since you cannot even make sense anymore go have another one...U think the Catholic Church brainwashes their congregation... wow again another only faith that does that... more ropes, more lighters Which Church was Extablished so we can burn it first
 
 
+9 # John Locke 2012-06-01 18:40
KittatinyHawk Get your facts strait, ok!

A Church pays no property tax. It is non profit The school pays No property taxes, it is nonprofit.
The rectory, the residence of the priests, does pay properly tax. It is residential.
The convent, Where the sisters live Does pay property taxes,. it is residential.
 
 
+34 # reiverpacific 2012-05-31 15:57
SO TAX the shit out of the bastards; NOW! Then put the $ into single-payer and religion-free public education!
And that goes for all other churches who steer into political harbors for ANY reason.
It would be super-ironic if this ended up in front of the Roberts Supremely- Religious court with two Opus Dei members presiding, what!?
B.T.W., to "sharon bourassa". We adopted a little girl in Java Indonesia while I was working there with a great deal of help and moral support from the Maryknoll Sisters, who also walked and still walk the talk, and have been martyred in the likes of El Salvador for trying to do what they felt was Christ's work in terms of peace and justice.
I've also seen some wonderful examples of -mostly pretty solitary- priests and nuns, who could only be described as "lefty" in different parts of the world that really showed me what it was to live their faith and were as dirt-poor as most of their parishioners.
Still it was not enough to keep me within the theological and often downright mythical confines of a church that wields so much power, glorification of a Pontif, wealth and male dominance over all things, including that which is not their business, nor within their understanding.
What finished me though, was witnessing a beloved parish priest in Lexington, KY who was banished to some barren holler in Appalachia for his "Liberal" views. I just couldn't stomach that piece of scapegoating and censorship.
 
 
-10 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 21:30
I stopped buying Religion. I love my Faith and some other Eastern ones.
I know that other Faiths banging out the drums for money did it. Promises of God's Love and your salvation if you give up your pay check. They thrived on it, they took people's money so they could live high on the hog, while their 'Faithful' died without food, and medical. Faithful was told that is how God wanted it. Never could they show me that in Old or New. I saw it across this Country. Although Catholic didn't quite scrape the bottom of that barrel. We did ask for a percentage of people's money (too bad governement didn't follow that better) but then they did give them those envelopes for more. collection plates for more. We were more subtle.
But they did need the money...but I believe they all should have followed Jesus' example as did missionaries and live simpler. No gold robes, no gold idols which Jesus was against totally, and smaller Churches (this was man influence)
Sad that you saw that priest go, I was raised with Cardinals that questioned Government and sins of Bishop Sheen was first one. I knew some nuns that had their opinions too, God love them.

I hoped you had a lifetime of love from your child. Too bad most here wouldnot understand. Love in your Heart is all that was asked, Acceptance of each other was the other.
 
 
-37 # brucbaker 2012-05-31 16:12
I guess most of the posters did NOT listen to the interviews about this issue ... in which the only avenue to rectify the language that forces the Catholic Church to be become both a common taxpayer as well as have close to 50% of their assets come under the jurisdiction of the Obama Administration in the biggest scam in modern times by a sitting president. Instead of commenting .. use the computer to actually investigate the real government scam to turn the charities and welfare arm of the Catholic Church into a private industry, or put their hospitals and health care facilities under the Obama-care laws that turn CHARITABLE ventures into PRIVATE INDUSTRY ventures. Maybe condoms is ONE PERCENT of this problem .. but you need to stop taking the distraction bait and read what the bishops who had no choice but the SUE the OBAMA ADMINISTRATION because of the NEW LANGUAGE in the OBAMA-CARE law. Uh... you did READ the 2700 plus pages before you commented... didn't ya? NO ...Maybe you should ... you would poop your pants when you realize how bad this bill really is...
 
 
+19 # Underledge 2012-05-31 16:19
The Catholic Church resembles the Druids - out of touch and in the wrong time. Time to remove tax exempt status when they become politically active.
 
 
-19 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 21:32
All Churches should be treated equally...they are all valuable, and the ministers with millions of bucks should really pay up.
By the way Churches Properties have been up to taxed for years in many places, that is why many schools and churches have closed duh
 
 
+10 # John Locke 2012-06-01 18:42
KittatinyHawk: Do you make this up as you go? Churches DO not pay property or income taxes!
 
 
+23 # dusty 2012-05-31 16:33
Well, being against birth control and condoms is perfectly logical for bishops and priests. When you bugger little boys you don't need to use birth control. And, since women don't matter for the Church, only paternity matters, you want to keep women under control. It is a closed system for maintaining male supremacy --- end of question.
 
 
-21 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 21:35
Thanks Dusty but the laws I have read lately keeping lil lady under control and beaten are not Catholic Laws at all

Thanks for letting us all know that Bishops and Priests are the only pediphiles. I didnot see the Catholic used but probably with your intelligence you meant to but couldnot spell Catholic.

Since you are out there judging please get the ropes and torches, Male supremacy yes a myth unto man alone
 
 
+28 # lmmaloney 2012-05-31 16:46
Two simple points:
1. Benefits, including health insurance, are part of a pay package. They are not the property of the employer; they are due to the employee in return for her or his work. It is no more the business of the employer how the employee uses the benefits than it is how the employee spends money received in salary. Should a Jewish employer dock the pay of an employee who buys non-Kosher? I think not.
2. By what right can any religious body seek to compel the general public to abide by its teachings when its own members do not?
 
 
-11 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 21:40
I wonder if a non kosher food tastes as good as meat did on Fridays. Wow I never ever thought of that....I would have asked my friends.

I do remember they did try pork and other things that were contrary. We all did, we laughed and grew up. Now we can all look back at it and think wow was that as bad as we could get.

To tell you the truth in a true Rabbinical Sect, you would not discuss it if you did. Many Faiths have done many foolish things to their faithful.
Some even ended up dead... if you look up today those who are closer to God, the crazier they get. I believe there must be less oxygen closer to the bottom of the pile.
 
 
+5 # michelle 2012-05-31 22:01
A voice of reason and clear statement of the issue. Thank you.
 
 
+8 # sapereaudeprime 2012-05-31 17:17
I have no problem with this policy, as long as not one penny of my tax dollars goes to support any activity of any sort at any Catholic school or university. Starve 'em into oblivion.
 
 
-7 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 21:40
Thanks for that Christianity...
 
 
+19 # Utopia Bold 2012-05-31 17:22
According to the article,
"The decision of some forty-three Roman Catholic dioceses, schools, and social services to sue the Obama Administration is both baffling and dismaying. The lawsuit, announced last week, takes aim at the proposed rule by which most employers would have to include contraception coverage in their health-insuranc e plans. "

"Going to court ***will embed the Church in partisan politics*** and yoke it to the right wing. ITS TIME TO TAX THE CHURCH! The vatican has BILLIONS of dollars that would help our economy if we started taxing these SUPERSTITIOUS DEADBEATS. What ever happened to "separation of church and state? The belief that contraception is wrong is a RELIGIOUS BELIEF.
Also the mormons should also be taxed since they supported the anti gay prop 8 "protection" of marriage bill.
 
 
+11 # robjh1 2012-05-31 17:27
I bet the people against birth control probably have one or two kids. Why? Because they are practicing birth control.
 
 
-11 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 21:43
many of the fanatics that want to kill people at free clinics have no children right?
 
 
+27 # Lulie 2012-05-31 17:29
The real mystery is why anyone gives a rat's ass what the Catholic Church thinks.
 
 
-12 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 21:45
If most of here would put one tenth of their time into organizing people in their communities we might actually get jobs created, put Politicians in their place and remind Corporations who the Consumers are...but no let's blame the Catholic Church for everything because we are so Accepting and openminded.
 
 
+3 # letsfixit 2012-06-01 12:56
What kind if jobs??

Until you change the tax code the only meaningful jobs you will create are yard service and paper delivery

You cannot "organize" against tax codes and Chinese imports if it goes against the local walmart or habor freight tools that reside in each congressional district

Wishful thinking vs understanding realities is not going make your local representative change - unless you are a large campaign donor.

He wants to be re elected also.

What we need is some reality TV show about how it all works- like "storage wars"- which is Americans clinging to their junk rather than getting rid of old stale useless thoughts.

Are we trapped? Impossible to change? I wonder.
 
 
+7 # James38 2012-05-31 22:26
I have been reading through these comments, occasionally with interest, often with dismay, and laughing some, but I have been waiting for someone to put my feelings into words. Lulie, you did it. Cracked me up. After reading the article, that was my thought.

I sympathize with people who are struggling with the "meaning of life", and who are drastically or residually affected by the programming that society promulgates and imposes on us all. However, I have finished with all that. I finally realized the simple fact that any and all religions that demand faith in any unproven concept are frauds.

Believing in anything has nothing to do with the truth or lack of truth of the concept involved. No argument about the existence of God or anything else that has any element that must be accepted on faith, believed in simply because some "authority" says you should, has ANY validity whatsoever.

I see people devoting years to belief. They use phrases such as "deeply believe", "fervently believe", "profound faith" etc, and not one of these adjectives adds one iota of validity or meaning to their nonsense. Sincere they may be, but deluded they certainly are.

These folks often say, as if one should automatically respect them for it, "I am a person of faith." In reality, they are just admitting to a deep lack of understanding of basic reality. My reaction is closer to pity, and the hypocritical ones earn my scorn.
 
 
-31 # arbolverde 2012-05-31 17:34
Christ is about life. This is a life issue - contraception. As with abortion, this is anti-life. To be truly pro-life, we are called to be anti-death penalty, anti-war, pro-worker, pro-environment , anti-corruption , pro-immigrant, pro-poor, and yes, anti-contracept ion, which is for the life of the unborn child. The church does speak out on all these issues. This one is extremely controversial, so creates great flak for the church. But Jesus meant for life to come from man and woman, not to quell life for just the 'fun' aspect of sex. All aspects of sex go together, and should remain together. This is the way God created sex.
 
 
+13 # James38 2012-05-31 22:55
"God", arbolverde? Mr Green Tree, you are basing your ideas on at least two unproven assumptions. That God exists, and that he, she, or it, created anything at all.

Then there is the bit about Christ. Since there were several societies with essentially identical tales about a special person born of a virgin etc, one can only wonder if there was an actual person (born of a virgin or not), or if it is just a convenient hook upon which to hang various philosophical ideas.

Discussing how one should respect life and the existence of others is fine and essential to a society, and I agree with some of your ideas, but when you tell me what Jesus meant, you lose me completely - even before you add in telling me what "god" meant.

You are claiming a type of authority that is composed of vapor and emotions and has no validity. People who "believe" and add in the "faith" that other people (Popes, Imams etc) get messages from "god" that the rest of us can't hear, turn themselves into robots and slaves. The "authority" can say that any old idea is a "divine message", and the "faithful" are required to comply. This is why the world has suicide bombers. "Strap on this divine bomb and go blow some people up. You will get your reward in heaven." And off goes the fool to commit murder for nothing, and his/her death for free.

Faith is fatal to intellectual development, and sometimes to innocent bystanders as well.
 
 
+13 # reiverpacific 2012-06-01 19:56
Quoting arbolverde:
Christ is about life. This is a life issue - contraception. As with abortion, this is anti-life. To be truly pro-life, we are called to be anti-death penalty, anti-war, pro-worker, pro-environment, anti-corruption, pro-immigrant, pro-poor, and yes, anti-contraception, which is for the life of the unborn child. The church does speak out on all these issues. This one is extremely controversial, so creates great flak for the church. But Jesus meant for life to come from man and woman, not to quell life for just the 'fun' aspect of sex. All aspects of sex go together, and should remain together. This is the way God created sex.

So why do all the "about life" types keep killing people who don't follow their path.
The original inhabitants of this land recognized the truth.
All indigenous peoples I've encountered around the planet tend to see life that way-as a gift and a seven-generatio ns forth nurturing culture.
THIS is a DEATH culture, from it's prayer breakfasts to the military death machine operating in the name of corporate gain, to state-sanctione d murder (death-penalty) and killing of doctors who are trying to help women save themselves from unwanted and more often than not forced-sex pregnancy. But when term babies grow to cannon-fodder age, they are ripe for the plucking and burning on some foreign field.
That's how far away your theorem is from reality.
Wake up and smell the shit!
 
 
+20 # tm7devils 2012-05-31 18:07
Someone should start a counter-suit against the Catholic church...for forcing, for centuries, parents to indoctrinate their children with and into a myth laden religion...a clear case of child abuse if there ever wss one.
 
 
-12 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 21:48
What Faith are you...they are all myth laden, like duh

except some eastern culture faiths which actually teach love and tolerance but then what would some hypocritical christian know about that concept
 
 
+13 # James38 2012-06-01 08:32
"What Faith are you{?}" Why would you assume anyone has a "faith"? Is it sort of like an appendix or a navel? Everyone is born with one? I gave mine up for lent. Dropped it into the tithe bucket on my way out.
 
 
+9 # bluepilgrim 2012-05-31 18:31
See http://consortiumnews.com/2012/05/29/pope-paul-vis-error-on-birth-control/

Pope Paul VI’s Error on Birth Control
May 29, 2012
After conservative U.S. Catholic Bishops sued the Obama administration over its health-insuranc e requirement for contraceptives, many assumed the Bishops were upholding settled doctrine. But Catholic theologian Paul Surlis says Pope Paul VI incorrectly removed the issue from the Second Vatican Council in 1965.
By Paul Surlis
[...]
 
 
+15 # Skippydelic 2012-05-31 19:53
Along those same lines...

At the 1974 World Food Conference in Rome, Former U.S. Dept. of Agriculture Secretary Earl Butz made fun of Pope Paul VI's opposition to "population control" by quipping, in a mock Italian accent: "He no playa the game, he no maka the rules."

Which is a good object lesson for Catholics: "You no playa the game, you no maka the rules"!
 
 
-26 # lnason@umassd.edu 2012-05-31 18:50
While I am neither Catholic nor pro-life, I do not believe that the Church's decision to sue is baffling in the least.

They were explicitly promised by Obama that they would get a religious exemption in order to gain their support for the ACA. They did support the ACA and then got bushwhacked. They complained and Obama offered them an unworkable compromise without even talking to them.

Obama has shown no interest in compromising on this issue. Nor has he shown any interest in discussing it with pro-lifers who sincerely hold their beliefs.

The suit is surely a last resort for those who feel the federal government is impinging on their rights to live in accordance with their religious beliefs.

Lee Nason
New Bedford, Massachusetts
 
 
+13 # James38 2012-05-31 23:16
Well, Lee, you are chasing your libertarian tail again. Beliefs and faith are, when based on unproven assumptions, nonsense. "Sincere" nonsense is no better than any other kind. Pro-lifers may be as sincere as they wish, so long as they don't expect society to comply with their opinions. They can use, or not use, contraception. It is their choice. It is NOT their choice to make their opinion a law that everyone must follow. That is religious dictatorship.

The problem is not that "...the federal government is impinging on their rights to live in accordance with their religious beliefs", the problem is that they fail to understand that their beliefs only apply to them. They don't apply to me, or to anyone else who is not a (fully deluded) member of their group.

We must all rigorously defend and demand separation of Church and State. State is for all citizens equally, and that includes atheists and agnostics, and deals with basic stuff like infrastructure, education, health care, defense, etc that apply equally to all.

I am increasingly of the opinion that churches are businesses like any other, and should be taxed on all income except for that which is entirely spent on charitable projects, assuming that the recipients are not expected to trade belief for their help. Proselytizing is a commercial activity.
 
 
+9 # reiverpacific 2012-06-01 20:04
Quoting lnason@umassd.edu:
While I am neither Catholic nor pro-life, I do not believe that the Church's decision to sue is baffling in the least.

They were explicitly promised by Obama that they would get a religious exemption in order to gain their support for the ACA. They did support the ACA and then got bushwhacked. They complained and Obama offered them an unworkable compromise without even talking to them.

Obama has shown no interest in compromising on this issue. Nor has he shown any interest in discussing it with pro-lifers who sincerely hold their beliefs.

The suit is surely a last resort for those who feel the federal government is impinging on their rights to live in accordance with their religious beliefs.

Lee Nason
New Bedford, Massachusetts

There goes that "Pro-lifer" schtick again.
Murdered any doctors lately?
Save-the-fetus, then recruit the brought-to-term being as stock for a human feed-lot to nourish the death machine you all seem to worship so much in it's ingeniously contrived wars of destruction.
Ask any American Indian and the many invaded nations the pro-life (for the chosen) crowd has taken under it's murky cloak, reinforced by the "Black-Robes" following in their murderous wakes.
 
 
+11 # Majikman 2012-05-31 19:00
The Catholic church is claiming religious freedom to dictate/coerce the business, political and health decisions of its true believers as well as its non Catholic employees.
Dam! I can't decide if that's hysterically funny or a cryin' shame.
 
 
+5 # Vern Radul 2012-05-31 19:41
It might be helpful if they were able to travel back in time and convince their parent to practice the abstinence they preach.....
 
 
+18 # Joe6pK 2012-05-31 20:23
As a 66 year old veteran catholic IrishAmericans all I can say was the abuse of children effected me quite a bit, and I thought back to having nuns and Jesuit priests as teachers to see if there was any memory of that weird child-molester stuff, I had not remember seeing any. But when I hear my religion joining the pro-Nazi-pro-an ti-women gop messing around in my democracy I say it is time for Catholics to disconnect their catholic-ness from the Pope in Rome.
This guy was a cardinal in Californian supposedly sent by the last good Pope to stamp out child-molester curse here. He did nothing, and now the jerk wants to help our treasonous corporate lapdogs to bring down our secular democracy, the only true power of liberty on the planet! Well I suppose this guy; I will not refer to him in his holy stuff language, [as he is not worthy] must have figured if the Muslims and Jews are not going to run the USA I guess he figured the Pope should. So I will be first, I Joseph Francis Harty ask for official excommunication s from the Church of Rome.
 
 
0 # john2000young 2012-06-04 02:28
Yes, the Church needs a big clean up.
 
 
-19 # MidWest 2012-05-31 20:49
Talbot lies when she says, "the lawsuit proposes something different: namely, that religious freedom means they can deny access to birth control to people who don’t share their faith or that article of it." The Church just doesn't want to pay for it; it's not claiming the right to deny BC to anyone (as if it could). Such demented dogma in the service of Obama is pathetic! Get real!
 
 
+15 # Rick Levy 2012-05-31 21:17
I hope that the Church ties itself up in legal and financial knots with this lawsuit, because it's likely they'll get shot down again on legal precedents as the result of their own doing.
 
 
-12 # KittatinyHawk 2012-05-31 22:03
It would be so good to see half the use of your time actually doing something like organizing your Communities so that perhaps we could get jobs, help seniors, actually help children in need by mentoring but no the mentality on here is that of the Dark Ages so get the ropes, torches and let's get the Catholic Witch Hunt started. Then all Children will be safe forever and ever. The End.
By the way save about ten foot of that rope.

If you go back and read the trash, maybe you will see how close you are too those Satanists out West/South, and Hitler.


RSN I would think that even you would be tired of these sad articles...is there no good writers. Does it really matter what the Catholic Church wants for their Catholic Companies? They are wasting money on futile law suits. One fight I see is that someone working for a Catholic Company is not Catholic, that Company cannot deny the non Catholic birth control. They can give that person the money to buy their script. I feel this is just more media hype about a non issue. Catholic Church denying birth control devices or pills has nothing to do with USA and problems of.

I am starting to see the people coming here as those who are not really looking to move forward anymore than the GOP/TP, or any of these outdated Churches.

Faith is like Personality either you have it or you do not.
 
 
+8 # letsfixit 2012-06-01 11:09
In war discussions we use the terms of "blood and treasure" as decisions about which to commit and the price to commit to conduct that war.

It seems to me that all these discussions never consider the fact that there are limits in both for the church also.

The catholic church is teetering on the brink- and blind faith keeps propping it up - led by fallible men.

It appears that the majority here see that fact- whether you believe it or not

You can faith it all you want but that man led organization hid pedophiles and money laundering - at the highest levels.

Yes people are bad everywhere but in this case it is the organization at the highest levels
 
 
+15 # ABen 2012-05-31 22:08
The Catholic Church lost the high moral ground about three centuries ago. Fortunately, the U.S. is not a theocracy. Perhaps its moral outrage should be directed at the numerous examples of controlling and exploitative behavior practiced by so many of its ordained members. Please read your divine texts (which ever you choose) and follow your own guiding lights without trying to force others to march to your drum beat. True and lasting Faith is, by definition, personal.
 
 
+7 # Deboldt 2012-05-31 22:58
These guys wear hats nearly as silly as the thoughts that occupy the brains in the heads that support them.
 
 
+7 # Kasandra 2012-05-31 23:44
Awww, they're just scared they'll become obsolete.
 
 
+2 # BobHG 2012-06-01 00:51
The imaginary friend police certainly cause a lot of trouble in the world.
 
 
+9 # Doll 2012-06-01 07:12
Why doesn't the Catholic church prohibit Viagra? If they did, they would have more credibility.
 
 
+2 # James38 2012-06-01 08:37
They would only gain credibility if they stated that faith and belief in anything without proof is unjustifiable, illogical, and ridiculous.

Then they could spend all their money actually helping people without selling their "faith" bunkum. They would definitely gain some credibility.
 
 
0 # MJnevetS 2012-06-03 23:07
Because sometimes its hard to get it up when you want to bugger alter-boys, but that little blue pill fixes all the priestly performance problems.
 
 
+16 # real 2012-06-01 07:21
The Catholic Church always has an opinion regarding politics & contraception, with this being said they should pay taxes.
It is the Catholic church that has covered up all the sexual misdeeds done to little boys....I guess thats their form contraception, little boys.
 
 
+10 # letsfixit 2012-06-01 10:46
It is interesting to listen to the arguments about taxes and money. But when I tour the Vatican and see those jewel encrusted solid gold chalices - and know that people gave their lives to make those chalices- and did it blindly, and what we have today with the edicts-

Is no different.

People told what to do- sacrifice their lives for "men" in a building.

Who are not married- and telling women what to do with their bodies c
 
 
+10 # Sweet Pea 2012-06-01 11:22
Isn't it just amazing that a woman can have a child every year, but few Catholic families have more than two or three children? I guess after the third child they just accept abstinence as a way of life (NOT!)
As far as I'm concerned I would gladly contribute to any organization that handed out condoms on corners of all poverty-stricke n areas.
 
 
0 # john2000young 2012-06-04 02:22
Quoting Sweet Pea:
Isn't it just amazing that a woman can have a child every year, but few Catholic families have more than two or three children? I guess after the third child they just accept abstinence as a way of life (NOT!)
As far as I'm concerned I would gladly contribute to any organization that handed out condoms on corners of all poverty-stricken areas.


You are contradicting to yourself. The covered matter is wrong. Now, if someone do the similar action you support it?
 
 
+5 # MisterEd 2012-06-01 22:19
The problem is religions. I could never believe in any god that was so insecure that he required us tiny ants to worship him.
 
 
-1 # john2000young 2012-06-04 01:00
The problem is sinful persons who are bound to die. And the Catholic came to help to raise restore your dignity. Because you are a human being, and you don't just fuck around like an animal.
 
 
-5 # Gere 2012-06-02 18:53
I am a Catholic and have never found it easy to follow all the rules required for living a life full of grace; a life without sin. Sin is explained in the Catholic Catechism that is available to everyone including anyone who can read and search the Internet. Grace is the life of the soul paid for by the blood of Jesus Christ. I believe if you or I die in the state of grace, we will go to heaven. To be forgiven of my sins I must make up my mind to fight off the next temptation to sin. I must also confess my sins in confession. I can’t tell you how many times I have sinned by masturbating to relieve sexual tension. There are probably millions of women who are Catholic and used condoms and may have gone to confession just as I have. They are counted as having used condoms and also counted as being forgiven. How many men have masturbated and are now again Catholic’s in the state of grace? The number could be easily be equal to the total number of all men who claim to be Catholic. So how can the Catholic Church operate a hospital or school where they are self insured and forced to provide condoms when use of condoms is sin? Jesus said to take up our cross and follow him. You can debate, even rant and rave all day about a valid difference of opinion with the Catholic Church. However, based on the First Amendment, the members of the Catholic Church have every right to practice their faith. Wake up America! This is not about women’s rights it is about our Constitution.
 
 
-2 # john2000young 2012-06-04 02:19
Human beings are sinful. Their morality has tendency to go downward, and the destination is the hell, where people suppose artificial contraception is OK are heading to.

The only hope of human beings is the Catholic Church which can see the TRUTH clearly better than any other religion. This is exactly the reason why the Church is so attached by those people whose minds are so twisted by devil, and can not think straight, and see their problems clearly and work on them. Blaming Catholic Church is what the devils entice them to do.

God created life, and the work of devils against it. People use contraception to "enjoy" free sex with a mind set not to have baby. Once they "miss", they kill. It is legalized for the small size of the baby. And the allowable size keep growing. Now a baby survives abortion can be dumped into trash and it is legal. One day the government will choose who should live and who should die. Murdering and contraception share the same evil, therefore contraception is also intrinsically evil.

People trash human beings will be trashed by God. And that is just and reasonable.

It is you Eternal Life or your Forever Hell. I am very pro-choice, and I choose life.

Finally, I predict this message will get hundreds of THUMB DOWN. That is OK for me for I have profound peace.

HOWEVER, IT IS YOUR SOUL.
 

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