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Chomsky writes: "An old man in Gaza held a placard that read: 'You take my water, burn my olive trees, destroy my house, take my job, steal my land, imprison my father, kill my mother, bombard my country, starve us all, humiliate us all, but I am to blame: I shot a rocket back.'"

Portrait, Noam Chomsky, 06/15/09. (photo: Sam Lahoz)
Portrait, Noam Chomsky, 06/15/09. (photo: Sam Lahoz)

What the American Media Won't Tell You About Israel

By Noam Chomsky, Alternet

04 December 12


The savage punishment of Gaza traces back to decades ago.

n old man in Gaza held a placard that read: "You take my water, burn my olive trees, destroy my house, take my job, steal my land, imprison my father, kill my mother, bombard my country, starve us all, humiliate us all, but I am to blame: I shot a rocket back."

The old man's message provides the proper context for the latest episode in the savage punishment of Gaza. The crimes trace back to 1948, when hundreds of thousands of Palestinians fled from their homes in terror or were expelled to Gaza by conquering Israeli forces, who continued to truck Palestinians over the border for years after the official cease-fire.

The punishment took new forms when Israel conquered Gaza in 1967. From recent Israeli scholarship (primarily Avi Raz's "The Bride and the Dowry: Israel, Jordan, and the Palestinians in the Aftermath of the June 1967 War"), we learn that the government's goal was to drive the refugees into the Sinai Peninsula - and, if feasible, the rest of the population too.

Expulsions from Gaza were carried out under the direct orders of Gen. Yeshayahu Gavish, commander of the Israel Defense Forces Southern Command. Expulsions from the West Bank were far more extreme, and Israel resorted to devious means to prevent the return of those expelled, in direct violation of U.N. Security Council orders.

The reasons were made clear in internal discussions immediately after the war. Golda Meir, later prime minister, informed her Labor Party colleagues that Israel should keep the Gaza Strip while "getting rid of its Arabs." Defense Minister Moshe Dayan and others agreed.

Prime Minister Levi Eshkol explained that those expelled could not be allowed to return because "we cannot increase the Arab population in Israel" - referring to the newly occupied territories, already considered part of Israel.

In accord with this conception, all of Israel's maps were changed, expunging the Green Line (the internationally recognized borders) - though publication of the maps was delayed to permit Abba Eban, an Israeli ambassador to the U.N., to attain what he called a "favorable impasse" at the General Assembly by concealing Israel's intentions.

The goals of expulsion may remain alive today, and might be a factor in contributing to Egypt's reluctance to open the border to free passage of people and goods barred by the U.S.-backed Israeli siege.

The current upsurge of U.S.-Israeli violence dates to January 2006, when Palestinians voted "the wrong way" in the first free election in the Arab world.

Israel and the U.S. reacted at once with harsh punishment of the miscreants, and preparation of a military coup to overthrow the elected government - the routine procedure. The punishment was radically intensified in 2007, when the coup attempt was beaten back and the elected Hamas government established full control over Gaza.

Ignoring immediate offers from Hamas for a truce after the 2006 election, Israel launched attacks that killed 660 Palestinians in 2006, most of whom were civilians (a third were minors). According to U.N. reports, 2,879 Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire from April 2006 through July 2012, along with several dozen Israelis killed by fire from Gaza.

A short-lived truce in 2008 was honored by Hamas until Israel broke it in November. Ignoring further truce offers, Israel launched the murderous Cast Lead operation in December.

So matters have continued, while the U.S. and Israel also continue to reject Hamas calls for a long-term truce and a political settlement for a two-state solution in accord with the international consensus that the U.S. has blocked since 1976 when the U.S. vetoed a Security Council resolution to this effect, brought by the major Arab states.

This week, Washington devoted every effort to blocking a Palestinian initiative to upgrade its status at the U.N. but failed, in virtual international isolation as usual. The reasons were revealing: Palestine might approach the International Criminal Court about Israel's U.S.-backed crimes.

One element of the unremitting torture of Gaza is Israel's "buffer zone" within Gaza, from which Palestinians are barred entry to almost half of Gaza's limited arable land.

From January 2012 to the launching of Israel's latest killing spree on Nov. 14, Operation Pillar of Defense, one Israeli was killed by fire from Gaza while 78 Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire.

The full story is naturally more complex, and uglier.

The first act of Operation Pillar of Defense was to murder Ahmed Jabari. Aluf Benn, editor of the newspaper Haaretz, describes him as Israel's "subcontractor" and "border guard" in Gaza, who enforced relative quiet there for more than five years.

The pretext for the assassination was that during these five years Jabari had been creating a Hamas military force, with missiles from Iran. A more credible reason was provided by Israeli peace activist Gershon Baskin, who had been involved in direct negotiations with Jabari for years, including plans for the eventual release of the captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit.

Baskin reports that hours before he was assassinated, Jabari "received the draft of a permanent truce agreement with Israel, which included mechanisms for maintaining the cease-fire in the case of a flare-up between Israel and the factions in the Gaza Strip."

A truce was then in place, called by Hamas on Nov. 12. Israel apparently exploited the truce, Reuters reports, directing attention to the Syrian border in the hope that Hamas leaders would relax their guard and be easier to assassinate.

Throughout these years, Gaza has been kept on a level of bare survival, imprisoned by land, sea and air. On the eve of the latest attack, the U.N. reported that 40 percent of essential drugs and more than half of essential medical items were out of stock.

In November one of the first in a series of hideous photos sent from Gaza showed a doctor holding the charred corpse of a murdered child. That one had a personal resonance. The doctor is the director and head of surgery at Khan Yunis hospital, which I had visited a few weeks earlier.

In writing about the trip I reported his passionate appeal for desperately needed medicine and surgical equipment. These are among the crimes of the U.S.-Israeli siege, and of Egyptian complicity.

The casualty rates from the November episode were about average: more than 160 Palestinian dead, including many children, and six Israelis.

Among the dead were three journalists. The official Israeli justification was that "The targets are people who have relevance to terror activity." Reporting the "execution" in The New York Times, the reporter David Carr observed that "it has come to this: Killing members of the news media can be justified by a phrase as amorphous as ‘relevance to terror activity.' "

The massive destruction was all in Gaza. Israel used advanced U.S. military equipment and relied on U.S. diplomatic support, including the usual U.S. intervention efforts to block a Security Council call for a cease-fire.

With each such exploit, Israel's global image erodes. The photos and videos of terror and devastation, and the character of the conflict, leave few remaining shreds of credibility to the self-declared "most moral army in the world," at least among people whose eyes are open.

The pretexts for the assault were also the usual ones. We can put aside the predictable declarations of the perpetrators in Israel and Washington. But even decent people ask what Israel should do when attacked by a barrage of missiles. It's a fair question, and there are straightforward answers.

One response would be to observe international law, which allows the use of force without Security Council authorization in exactly one case: in self-defense after informing the Security Council of an armed attack, until the Council acts, in accord with the U.N. Charter, Article 51.

Israel is well familiar with that Charter provision, which it invoked at the outbreak of the June 1967 war. But, of course, Israel's appeal went nowhere when it was quickly ascertained that Israel had launched the attack. Israel did not follow this course in November, knowing what would be revealed in a Security Council debate.

Another narrow response would be to agree to a truce, as appeared quite possible before the operation was launched on Nov. 14.

There are more far-reaching responses. By coincidence, one is discussed in the current issue of the journal National Interest. Asia scholars Raffaello Pantucci and Alexandros Petersen describe China's reaction after rioting in western Xinjiang province, "in which mobs of Uighurs marched around the city beating hapless Han (Chinese) to death."

Chinese president Hu Jintao quickly flew to the province to take charge; senior leaders in the security establishment were fired; and a wide range of development projects were undertaken to address underlying causes of the unrest.

In Gaza, too, a civilized reaction is possible. The U.S. and Israel could end the merciless, unremitting assault, open the borders and provide for reconstruction - and if it were imaginable, reparations for decades of violence and repression.

The cease-fire agreement stated that the measures to implement the end of the siege and the targeting of residents in border areas "shall be dealt with after 24 hours from the start of the cease-fire."

There is no sign of steps in this direction. Nor is there any indication of a U.S.-Israeli willingness to rescind their separation of Gaza from the West Bank in violation of the Oslo Accords, to end the illegal settlement and development programs in the West Bank that are designed to undermine a political settlement, or in any other way to abandon the rejectionism of the past decades.

Someday, and it must be soon, the world will respond to the plea issued by the distinguished Gazan human-rights lawyer Raji Sourani while the bombs were once again raining down on defenseless civilians in Gaza: "We demand justice and accountability. We dream of a normal life, in freedom and dignity."

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-120 # Tje_Chiwara 2012-12-04 12:31
If only they had been able to try non-violence and straightfoward recognition of Israel's right to exist . . . Israel might have folded like the British Empire. Perhaps not. But it would have been a better approach.
+127 # riverhouse 2012-12-04 13:05
Well, were Britain or any other foreign country to come into the USA and decide to give away a certain area to some other people who simply moved in and took over, I believe Americans would resist that in any way available.
+52 # in deo veritas 2012-12-04 15:36
Would we really? When the elected government has already decided to give away so much of the country to the plutocrats we have done nothing to stop it.
+8 # Paddingtonprincess54 2012-12-06 11:23
you are so right riverhouse.... I often wonder what the response would be if Canada or Mexico decided to 'increase' their borders into the U.S ... ? ha that would be a hoot to watch !
+5 # Sweet Pea 2012-12-07 15:10
It would sure make some people angry, but actually some people might not mind if Canada took us over. They have government provided healthcare and a pretty good standard of living. Now, Mexico, on the other hand would prove a disaster for some people.
+125 # Majikman 2012-12-04 14:52
Give up that tired old saw, already. What's actually happening, for all the world to see, is Israel refusing the right of the Palestinians to exist
-149 # brux 2012-12-04 15:45
After 70 years and many centuries more of Palestinians and Muslims refusing the right of Israel and Jews to exist. "Palestine" even went so far as to join the Nazis during WWII. So what's apparently is that Chomsky is completely irrational on this. It's not so much what the media will not tell you about Israel, it's what Chomsky implies is not true about the Palestinians.

For example, the opening salvo of this idiotic rant ...

"You take my water, burn my olive trees, destroy my house, take my job, steal my land, imprison my father, kill my mother, bombard my country, starve us all, humiliate us all, but I am to blame: I shot a rocket back."

Like that is some kind of foolishness I do not expect from Chomsky, to use that kind of sloppy metaphor to blame the Jews and Israel. There is something wrong with Chomsky on this issue since he virtually never mentions any violence in context of the Palestinians without blaming Israel, never.

That proves he is just biased.
+68 # ericlipps 2012-12-04 16:32
Quoting brux:
After 70 years and many centuries more of Palestinians and Muslims refusing the right of Israel and Jews to exist. "Palestine" even went so far as to join the Nazis during WWII.

So it did, though chiefly out of opposition to colonial Britain and France rather than out of anti-Semitism.

Obn the other hand, Israel had no hesitation about partnering with apartheid South Africa in developing nuclear weapons, despite the latter's racist ideology and history of sheltering Nazi war criminals.
-92 # brux 2012-12-04 20:18
Yeah, we see that people in desperate circumstances choose desperate measures. There is a no-win situation unless Palestinians dis-arm, why don't they do it?

Israelis and all countries with intelligence forces find themselves doing what seem like bad things when they come to light. There is not a country that violates that principle, yet time after time when Palestinians are mentioned in the media there is zero admission that they ever do anything wrong, to the inclusion of firing rockets into Israel is just ignorable.

People that think so stupid are going to go extinct, and they would if they did not have military support and coersion to be that way from other Muslims states.
+15 # Sacrebleu! 2012-12-06 11:21
A little early to call the Palestinian cause lost after their resounding victory in being recognized by the UN, isn't it?
+3 # Artemis 2013-08-25 17:23
Quite the contrary. Whenever I read anything, it is usually critical of the Palestinians. So, what are you talking about? I often read this nonsense.
If you knew people in the Muslim states you would realize how much nonsense you are talking. Proportionally, there are MAYBE as many Arabs who commit violent acts as there are Israelis.
Why doesn't Israel dis-arm? For the same useless feeling that most countries suffer from. The Palestinians could completely disarm too. But they have toys compared to Israel.
-6 # brux 2013-08-25 18:49
> Whenever I read anything, it is usually critical of the Palestinians.

That's almost funny, maybe only in Israel.

Nice move, after making a nonsensical statement you them go and call my opinion nonsense.

Proportionality is not the point here .... if you have magnesium burning in the atmosphere, proportionately there is only a miniscule amount of oxygen involved, and it tells you nothing about the reaction. What nonsense.

If Israel disarmed it would not exist .. another nonsense question. Bugger off with this stuff - and I don't give a damn if everyone here votes against me, it just goes to show that there are people whose minds cannot be swayed by facts for their intense hate.
+1 # Douglas Jack 2013-08-27 05:51
If you have white phosphorus burning on the skin of Palestinian refugee children (across the Middle-east), Depleted Uranium burning the genes of Egyptians from Israeli attacks in the Sinai peninsula, citizens dying everywhere from arms supplied in great majority from US, Canadian, NATO & Israel. 40% of the export economies of NATO aligned countries are war related, 60% of Israel's. We are a people continually living off of the arming of dissidents in over 80 countries worldwide. We are a people destroying the planet & people everywhere. We aren't a people at peace at home or anywhere. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/structure/1-converting-social-media-from-mono-to-dialogue
0 # brux 2013-08-27 13:11
Change your name?

See, I would agree with the second half of your rant, there are far too many weapons in the world and most of the worlds economic, political and social power is dictated at the end of a gun some way or another ... BUT, that really has little to do with Israel; you are just trying to spin a story from a really high level to a very low level without mentioning there are a lot of differences between the levels. Military power has been the major difference in the security of Western interests in the world, just complaining or calling for that to be upset without a very careful explanation is pointless.
0 # Douglas Jack 2013-09-08 13:55
brux, (same name I've always used, but some might confuse the order) Good we both want solutions!

It is an INTELLECTUAL (Latin 'inter' = 'between' + 'legere' = 'to choose') COWARD who manufactures & uses weapons when at all times DIALECTICS equal-time recorded & published dialogues widely distributed in the court of public opinion can solve the issues we are all immersed in. Dialectic rights were proposed by Socrates 2300 years ago in his founding of academia. Mohandas Gandhi employed a similar Satyagraha (Hindi 'truth-search') whereby all involved individual including the foreign & murderous British, Canadian & Australian troops were included in public formal dialogues stimulated with Gandhi's question, "What are your best intentions & how can we help you fulfill these?"

My Jewish friends & family who raised me always insisted upon such dialectic rights for all, but those in power in USA, Canada, NATO, Saudi-Arabia & Israel are ignorant & inarticulate in these humaine traditions. They are 'intellectual-c owards' beholding only to their money masters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzyOtl4MDC4 Its time for all of us to rediscover our humanity. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/structure/both-sides-now-equal-time-recorded-dialogues
0 # brux 2013-09-08 14:38
Douglas Jack, your prose is fairly densely packed, and harks back to Socrates ... I can't really attach to this because it is so abstract and seems to just put things in your frame or reference.

I'd prefer to deal with just regular conversation, i.e. plain English.

Your second paragraph is a blatant generalization covering half the world and proclaiming them cowards and worse ... yet you make no mention of the Islamic world ... presumably because you think they are somehow different in nature and better in kind.

I don't believe that, I don't think that type of statement is useful to either explain or model the world or to inform.

If we are to interact the framework of that interaction must be honest and equal.
0 # Douglas Jack 2013-09-08 18:59
Most people including soldiers don't understand their options to make a better world, to resolve conflicts & to create partnerships through formal dialogue processes. Many are locked into worldviews in which violence is the only response possible so I'm using a contradictory term like 'coward' used widely in these circles in order to confuse people out of their paradigms. Mohandas Gandhi also used this language for this same reason, not because we care whether someone has the guts & bravery to listen to their fear, but more because such a paradox can bring them to such a place of respect.

I make no mention of either jewish, Swahili, Sioux, Celtic, Islamic worlds because there isn't a general statement by which individuals, families & communities from any of these peoples can be grouped.

My own background with Jewish, Celtic & First Nation American mixed over hundreds of years is too complex to easily describe. Nor are my friends & workmates from all of these groups. Within my family it is even more complex given the choices we have made as siblings & cousins.
0 # brux 2013-09-08 14:46
Douglas Jack ... in very post you are including a link to a video of the evil Jewish Bankers taking over the world video.

The funny thing is - what do you suppose Noam Chomsky would say about this.

You want to on one side cozy up with Noam Chomsky and use him to support your ideas, while on the other side you are espousing an almost fascist/nazi-li ke charactericatio n of Jews, banking, the West, etc.

You talk about intellectual honesty, but i see that contradiction in your every post.

I've never heard Noam Chomsky talking about a Jewish banking conspiracy to the take over the world. You are a real piece of work. I hope everyone who reads your post has the diligence to find out what you are really all about.
0 # Douglas Jack 2013-09-08 19:30
Brux, Its not that the Rothschild banking families are Jewish. There are many families from other cultural groups who have become beholding to the Finance-Media-M ilitary-Industr ial-Complex & lost their 'indigenous' (Latin 'self-generatin g') knowledge of life, the biosphere & human collaboration. The film Rothschild Conspiracy, International Banking Cartel & the Federal Reserve is not a conspiracy but simply a fact of life in our monetary age & a piece of history for which we should all become cognizant.

Being raised in a family with jewish roots, I don't believe that I nor other Jewish people can be categorized from the actions of the Rothschild, but we can all become aware of the systems, ownership & power structures within which we live. At any time, I am looking for 'glasnost' (Russian 'openness') partnership & 'perestroika' (Russian 'restructuring' ) with you or anyone. Money Masters has many good programs on the structure of our financial systems. Even though some detail the role of the Rothschild, David Mayer de Rothschild for example breaks the mould completely as a selfless activist for the planet's environment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzyOtl4MDC4

I've read Noam Chomsky over a few decades as a Linguist because of my own work in sign-language & cross-cultural communication with aphasic, differentially abled & others. I particularly like his open balanced inter-cultural appreciations for all peoples of the world.
+1 # Mannstein 2013-08-26 14:02
Zionists in WWII offered to fight on the side of Hitler during WWII figuring that they had a better chance at grabbing Palestine once the Brits had been thrown out. You do what you have to do.
-3 # brux 2013-08-26 18:36
You seem to be just stone cold lacking an ability to put this into true perspective. Hitler was murdering the Jews. The zionists as you call them were not offering to fight in the side of the Nazis, they wanted to co-operate with removing Jews from Europe, but that was not enough for the Nazis and not enough for the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, they insisted these people not be resettled and be sent to the death camps.

Always your side used cockeyed history to bring two opposing arguments together and try to equate them to eliminate was is a very clear and ongoing danger from Islam to Jews, but also to all non-Muslims as well.

The fact is that Palestinians do not HAVE to fire rockets at Israel, the fact is they do it to flaunt conventions and terrorize, to gesture that they do not care what the world thinks. So, in true Jewish fashion, Israel has responded peacefully by building settlements in Palestine in effect saying, you fire rockets, then there is a cost in the long term, every minute you waste more land you lose ultimately.

Face it, a culture that is locked in the 1300's is outclassed by a modern society, and even Palestinians know it. There is no room in the modern world for these idiotic religious wars and the sooner they are given up, the sooner people get on with their lives, the sooner everyone forgets about this, the better. It's the Muslims that keep dragging everyone back by their inability to process the present and the future.
0 # Artemis 2013-08-27 03:01
Brux writes his own history books, which contradict declassified historical (British government) documents, papers and letters, radio speeches, diaries, and particularly those of the Arab world in the 20s, 30s and 40s, which most were unable to read or hear because they cannot speak Arabic! Not to mention the stories of many Jews who lived in Arab countries at the time.

I have seen other such outpourings of falsifications and they are typical of extreme Zionists that troll the internet. It will all be very useful to illustrate a talk on the mindset of American Zionists, the basis for the policies they force on an unwilling world, and Islamophobia.

Brux's posts can be classified as hate speech cloaked occasionally in some kind of rational pseudo-balance, before erupting into a stream of poisonous notions that could be put one-to-one beside the hatefulness aimed at Jews that was propagated by Nazis in the 1930s.
-1 # brux 2013-08-27 13:24
Artemis, you are a nasty bit of work ... that is 3 long paragraphs of groundless personal attack of the sort that gets your booted from the discussion in any civilized debate forum.
+48 # William Bjornson 2012-12-04 19:11
brux - If the Jews don't learn to understand that Naziism and zionism are born of the same mother and get control of these absolutely psychopathic zionists, there will be NO Jews. That is what the good rabbis at www.jewsagainstzionism.com are terrified of. Go see.

The most shameful people in the world today are the Sephardim. They kill their blood brothers to promote a foreign evil which will rebound onto the Jewish People like the blast wave of a nuclear weapon. If I am Jewish and my twin becomes Muslim and I kill him, I am guilty of fraticide, the REAL original sin in that tradition. If I team with genetic aliens against my cogenetic brethren, am I evil? Yes. By all biological imperatives, I am evil. The Sephardim are murdering their genetic brethren in Palestine to promote the foreign Eurasian Ashkenazi Khazaris who do not share G-d's Covenant (with THE SEED of Israel). The true Palestinians are converted Jews and their descendents who, whether through Moses or Mohammed, are of the Covenant. The Sephardim kill their own in service to ashkenazi goyim. Can there be a greater shame?
-70 # brux 2012-12-04 20:06
> If the Jews don't learn to understand that Naziism and zionism are born of the same mother

I think you need to question some of your very deep beliefs if you think this, it is simply not true in profitable way of looking at things.
+13 # JetpackAngel 2012-12-05 17:03
I think you might know that mother as 'racism.'
-21 # dkonstruction 2012-12-05 08:36
To say that nazism and zionism are "born of the same mother" shows a real lack of understanding of history. It is certaily true that european zionism developed out of/alongside a particular form of nationalism that developed in eastern europe but that is very different.

Also, your denegration of both sehpardic and askenazi jews and your embrace of the whoe Khazar origin theory betrays i think an underlying anti-semitism though you try and couch it in seemingly "benign and or "scientific" "terms. Your use of the term "psychopathic" is also a giveaway as are comments by those who are completely uncritical of israeli state policy who descend into racialized notions/comment s about arabs/palestini ans (the use of animal references/anal ogies seems to be one of the constants here on both sides)....dehum anizing those you disagree with is one of the first steps in being able to justify the oppression since the "enemy" is made out to be something less than human or civilized.
+1 # Mannstein 2013-08-26 14:06
What's an anti Semite? Not someone that doesn't like Jews. Rather someone that the Jews don't like.
-2 # countthevotes 2012-12-06 18:17
Thanks so much for your screed. Aren't you going to post a link to the Elder Protocols of Zion? There must be some people here who haven't heard of it yet and would fall for it. New ones born every day.
+53 # William Bjornson 2012-12-04 19:34
"Palestine" even went so far as to join the Nazis during WWII.

Oh yeah, brux, about the above... you must've learned your history on a Fox history special. The main collaborators with the Nazis and those most responsible for breaking the worldwide boycott of German goods in the 1930s were...tada...t he zionists. Look up something called the "Exchange Agreement" whereby the zionists were able to extort every penny out of Jewish Germans and give much of it to Hitler. While you're at it, look up "One cow in Palestine" and you will know EXACTLY what the Kazhari zionists thought of Jews then, and still do now. And Jewish Americans are just as foolish as Jewish Germans were. Part of the strategy was to put so much pressure on the Jewish Germans that the zionists could then funnel able-bodied people to Palestine where NO ONE wanted to go voluntarily. It was a sentence to Hard Labor and no frills on a Marxian commune (kibbutz). Read more, brux. Then talk. Get out of 'brux' and become a fellow non-ismist human, strangers in a strange land.
-54 # brux 2012-12-04 20:11
OK, you're trying to weasel to a point that you cannot weasel to ... and that is you are basically trying to deny that the Palestinians allied with Hitler in WWII, which happens to be true, well documented in the News Reels of the time, we before Fox News and well understood then. Today few feel the need to make a big deal about it except in reaction to the ridiculous statements of Pro-Palestinian commentors.
+41 # abdullahiedward 2012-12-05 01:53
I don't consider Noam Chomsky to be a person inclined to "ridiculous statements"!Rat her, having read some of his books, I would consider him to be one of the most articulate and scholarly of the political commentators of the modern age.
-3 # brux 2013-08-25 16:22
I would consider Chomsky a scholar as well, there is nothing in what I said that negates that. The problem is, as a human being he also has a personal outlook, and that personal outlook has been damaging in a way to progressivism/l iberalism because of his illogical embrace of the Palestinians ... not just of the Palestinians as human beings, which I too embrace, but of their Islamic and terrorist nature and roots. That is inimical to justice, liberty and democracy, all.
+4 # Artemis 2013-08-25 17:28
"not just of the Palestinians as human beings, which I too embrace, but of their Islamic and terrorist nature and roots. "

Are you completely off your rocker?...Terro rist nature and roots. Whoa!
That is racism pure.
-3 # brux 2013-08-25 18:50
Ah, racism card ... now they play it without any backup at all. Stop your trolling on my posts.
+10 # dkonstruction 2012-12-05 08:40
your referencing how zionist leaders "collaborated" with the nazis is as simplistic and misleading as those on the other side who talk about how the arabs/palestini ans sided with the nazis. It may make a nice soundbite and sound profound but it betrays a serious lack of understanding about why those at the time (both jews and arabs) did what they did, supported and or "collaborated" with whom they did becuase it has no context at all i.e., it totally ignores the larger geopolitical realities of the day (i.e., the germans opposed the british, the british controlled palestine etc).
0 # Sacrebleu! 2012-12-06 11:28
If William means the haavara agreement, then I agree with you. It is a little more complex than that.
+3 # dkonstruction 2012-12-07 10:58
the vast majority of those "foolish" German Jews were not zionists and did not want nor try to go to Palestine.

I am assuming your reference to the "Exchange Agreement" is meant to refer to the Transfer Agreement and zionist opposition to those calling for a boycott movement instead. In retrospect, it is easy to criticize this decision but your comments show a total lack of understanding (or a deliberatley selective one) as to both the context and rationale for zionist support of such an agreement. Your reference to "Kazhari zionists" and painting them all as "Marxian" because of the kibbutz movement is also very telling. Your take is as misguided as Brux's repeated posts about the so-called "alliance" between the Palestinians and the Nazis which had everything to do with the larger geopolitical context (i.e., the brits controlled Palestine and the Germans were fighting the brits) rather than an embrace of Nazi ideology.
+67 # Texas Aggie 2012-12-04 20:10
"You take my water, burn my olive trees, destroy my house, take my job, steal my land, imprison my father, kill my mother, bombard my country, starve us all, humiliate us all, but I am to blame: I shot a rocket back."

I see that this touched a nerve. What exactly do you see that is in any way inaccurate? All you have to do is follow the news, even from Israeli newspapers, and you would have no problem at all recognizing the truth of the statement.

I suspect that the reason this bothers you so much is that it is the weakest point in your blinder ridden position that somehow Israel is the victim in this dispute. Knowing that not only has Israel been historically the bad guy in this confrontation, but that they were also responsible for initiating the present hostilities when they killed a couple Gazan kids who were playing soccer. Until then there had been a lull in the rockets fired into Israel.
+10 # dkonstruction 2012-12-05 08:31
Quoting brux:
After 70 years and many centuries more of Palestinians and Muslims refusing the right of Israel and Jews to exist. "Palestine" even went so far as to join the Nazis during WWII. So what's apparently is that Chomsky is completely irrational on this. It's not so much what the media will not tell you about Israel, it's what Chomsky implies is not true about the Palestinians.

For example, the opening salvo of this idiotic rant ...

"You take my water, burn my olive trees, destroy my house, take my job, steal my land, imprison my father, kill my mother, bombard my country, starve us all, humiliate us all, but I am to blame: I shot a rocket back."

Like that is some kind of foolishness I do not expect from Chomsky, to use that kind of sloppy metaphor to blame the Jews and Israel. There is something wrong with Chomsky on this issue since he virtually never mentions any violence in context of the Palestinians without blaming Israel, never.

That proves he is just biased.

Brux, while i think it was a serious mistake for Arabs/Palestini ans to "side" with the Nazis i suspect you know that this was about global geo-politics i.e., the germans were against the british and the british controlled Palestine and therefore the enemy of my enemy is my friend...i don't agree with the logic but it is misleading to imply that Arab/Palestinia n nationalists embraced Nazi ideology and this was the reason for the alliance such that it was.
0 # Artemis 2013-08-25 17:34
I think you need to read THE ARABS AND THE HOLOCAUST. It shows a more complex and human side to the issue.
I would not accept anything without checking thoroughly.
-2 # brux 2013-08-25 18:54
> It shows a more complex and human side to the issue.

You mean it agrees with you. It's pretty clear you have not checked anything.
0 # Mannstein 2013-08-26 14:12
Holocaust holocaust holocaust, I'm all holocausted out!
-1 # brux 2013-09-08 12:28
Just read this again, and it's kind of funny really. Saying the Jews used terrorism against the British is way out of context. At the time the British were all about empire doing the most outrageous and anti-human-righ ts maneuvers in history.

To call that terrorism without a thought to the why of it is empty-headed. The British were trying as they did in the whole area to create broken states at each other's throats in order to maintain their influence after their empire had disintegrated. The whole world was in some kind of revolt to the British.

The British were standing in the way of Israeli nationalism ... you may as well call our Founding Fathers terrorists DK. This is the case with all the anti-Israel arguments here, they are all allowed to be turned on their side and stretched out of shape ... to allow the islamic societies to look more normal in their own global terrorism.

+2 # Mannstein 2013-08-26 14:00
Tell me something do Palestinians have a right to exist. Do they have a right not to be robbed of there land whatever left is of it which has been robbed by the Israelis? How about not having their homes bulldozed 2 o'clock in the morning? Do they have a right not to have their women and kids bombed with white phosphor munitions which is against International Law? Oh I forgot International Law applies to all nations except Israel. When the rest of us are fed up and criticize that Shitty Little Country in the Middle East they quetsh why us.
-2 # brux 2013-08-26 20:39
This is my opinion, but I think Palestinians individually certainly have a right to exist, but not as a country. Whatever right they once had is forfeited by their criminal past. I think they need to be resettled to Jordan, and neighboring Arab countries, and broken up so they do not reform as an Army and continue to fight. The Arabs do not want them, but that does not mean they deserve a country. The only thing they have in common culturally is that they hate Israel ... that is no basis for a country.

I used to believe, up until about 5-7 years ago, in a two-state solution, no longer. I also think that every Islamic state however long it takes and however it must be done will end up having a secular government ... except maybe Saudi Arabia, but I think especially SA needs to be torn down and rebuilt as a democracy.

When they murder, kill, rocket and bomb Israel they can expect to have their houses torn down ... with notice. White phosphorus is a problem, it should be investigated and those responsible punished.
+1 # Mannstein 2013-08-27 15:23
What you think is totally irrelevant. It's what the rest of the world thinks and will do act upon that's important. And no threat of The Samson Option on the part of the Jews will change a thing. Haven't you noticed the glass is slowly overfilling.
-1 # brux 2013-08-27 15:38
So, what you mean is that nuclear deterrence will not work against Muslims determined to kill Jews who would rather die that let Jews live in peace. You don't have to tell me, Islam is a big big problem. To me it doesn't matter who is threatened by Islam, all victims of Islam have a right to live in this world undisturbed by religious persecution.
+7 # Scott479 2012-12-05 18:01
Israel has calculated the total caloric need of each Palestinian, determined that necessary to just avoid starvation, and allows only this amount through their blockades.
-3 # brux 2013-08-25 16:24
What nonsense. The Palestinians have calculated their ammunition needs to kill all Israelis makes about as much sense ... the point is that you get 8 idiots to vote up for that idiotic statement.
0 # Mannstein 2013-08-26 14:14
The Palestinians live under occupation. It is the right of the occupied to resist the occupier which are the Jews.
+2 # engelbach 2013-08-26 15:57
The Israeli government, not the Jews.
-1 # brux 2013-08-26 18:38
It may be their right but it has not been their best course of action and it never will be. What was that saying that to keep doing the same thing with the same negative results is crazy?
-15 # in deo veritas 2012-12-04 15:34
The British Empire has NOT folded. Everywhere they are using all means necessary including economic destruction and political subterfuge to draw the US into a confrontation with Russia and China. The failure of the European banking system was brought on by the royalist Bank of England.
+13 # wrknight 2012-12-04 16:23
What planet did you say you were from?
+14 # William Bjornson 2012-12-04 21:54
Um...do you mean the rothchildist Bank of England?
+1 # Mannstein 2013-08-26 14:17
And Israel is trying to draw the US into a war with Iran which is not threat to us and hasn't attacked another country in centuries all because a clown in Tel Aviv thinks another alleged holocaust is just around the corner.
+34 # tenayaca 2012-12-04 17:36
Perhaps if we said instead, "If only they had been able to try non-violence and straightforward recognition of PALESTINE'S right to exist . . .
+10 # Douglas Jack 2012-12-05 11:41
Many here are posting on non-violence, but few read or gain experience in its methodology & confusion about the context of civil-disobedie nce. Mohandas Gandhi built foundation for non-violence through 'swaraj' ('self-sufficie ncy') over decades. Palestinians have been building mutual-aid & swaraj systematically in the best traditions for a century.

Gandhi on Palestine, " according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds." refer to Ken Halt's comment below. Gandhi's 'Satyagraha' (Hindi 'truth-search') is based in active 'dialectic' engagement of 'both-sides'. asking, "What are your best intentions & how can we help you achieve these?"

India's 'swaraj' ('self-sufficie ncy') as the foundation for Indian independence engaged people economically in mutual-aid. The national flag has a picture of the Spinning Wheel for making thread, the sari is worn or simplicity, Ashram collective living for housing, locally-grown food according to the orchard-garden traditions & making salt from the ocean. Mass marches were held not to protest but to celebrate the people's accomplishments.

Missing is international swaraj solidarity so humanity is standing with both the people of Palestine & Israel who are both having apartheid & religion thrust down their throats by international financier-milit ary cabals. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/structure/2-satyagraha
-3 # brux 2013-08-25 18:56
Funny that you say that when Muslims are attacking India from outside and inside.
+117 # Artemis 2012-12-04 12:34
I love Noam Chomsky.
-84 # brux 2012-12-04 15:48
Me too, but he is wrong on his blatherings on Israel. There is something wrong with Chomsky on this because he never tells the kind of balanced story here that he attempts to on most other issues. The purpose I think is that he works or the CIA and is participating willingly and knowingly in what he himself called the "manufacture of consent" ... Chomsky is a sticky bomb exploding with his words and trying to stick Liberals with the label of terrorists over time by getting them to side with terrorists and anti-Semites on this issue so they will have no credence on anything else.
+4 # engelbach 2012-12-09 16:54
What? That's the most nonsensical rant on this whole thread.
-1 # brux 2013-08-26 18:39
Thanks, coming from you and the others I just reverse the sense of that comment and it is a great compliment.
+14 # grandma lynn 2012-12-05 01:08
His repeating the word "usual" is masterful understatement. It builds and builds to reflect the incremental overriding of law by Israel, overriding of law and pushing the boundaries of behavior the way a willfull and bad child does it to selfishly get his way. However much Jewish survivors of Europe came out of that mess with good will on their side, they've gone malignant. U.S. support of this malignancy distant from our borders, is - what? A bit like Nazi doctors enjoying new knowledge of disease without compassion for the sick body. We somehow are clinical towards sick Israel. We observe Israel's sickness and take no responsibility for reducing it. Some people know their dog has fleas, and watch it scratch, even balding its skin, and do nothing about it.
+44 # dkonstruction 2012-12-04 12:39
while I always appreciate Chomsky's take and the wealth of knowledge and information he brings continuing to focus solely on what the israeli's are doing to the Palestinians rather than on talking about what the palestinians and the Israeli peace movement can and should do (i.e., a more sustained discussion of tactics and strategy).

My own view at this point is that the Palestinians need to recognize that they cannot "win" militarily against the Israelis and that the use of violence which was probably necessary in order to get any attention on the world stage has now become self-defeating and merely serves to bolster the most reactionary forces in Israel and outside. A far more effective tactic at this point would be for the entire Palestinian movement to adopt a Ghandian style movement of non-violent civil disobedience as the prime weapon of resistance. This would make it much more difficult for the Israelis to continue their militaristic assaults, garnish much more support from the international community. It would also help rekindle the Israeli peace movement which has never really recovered since the second intifada and the use of suicide bombings in Israel proper.

I am not a pacifist but the use of violence is a tactic and not a strategy or an end in itself and as long as rockets (no matter how "amateur" they may be) continue to be shot into Israel it only serves to strengthen the Israeli right-wing which is self-defeating at best fo rthe Palestinians.
+27 # Smiley 2012-12-04 14:27
I don't understand. Could you give an example of what kind of "non-violent civil disobedience" They could do?
+6 # dkonstruction 2012-12-04 15:44
Sure...thanks for the question.

First, here's a piece that talks about this in general.


Non-violent civil disobedience could be used in a variety of situations e.g., protesting the construction of new settlements (taking over roads, blocking construction vehicles etc). It can also be used as a "counter-occupa tion" to "occupy" areas that the Israeli's have said they want to expand into...a peaceful mass march from gaza to the est bank or vice-versa to highlight the lack of freedom of movement....squ atting in areas that the Israelis say they want to move into...protests can also be held at critical infrastructure sites such as those related to the supply of water to highlight Israeli control and unfair distribution of such critical resources...tar geted economic boycotts can also be effective in certain situations....t argeted "shopping" to gum up targeted businesses (e.g., targeting a bank with tons of people that come in pretending to want to open accounts or convert currency)...bot tom line is that there are a variety and multiple possibilities in terms of both "targets" and the types of "actions" but because they are non-violent they tend to be seen as taking the "moral highground" and thus would make it harder for the Israelis to continue their military response and agression and also undercut their support in the international community.
+22 # Majikman 2012-12-04 16:32
Rachel Corey. Is that what you mean by civil disobedience? Didn't do much to hamper Israeli aggression as I recall.
+18 # Smiley 2012-12-04 19:09
The only reason we know about Rachel Corey is because she was not a Palestinian.
+11 # grandma lynn 2012-12-05 01:12
I miss Rachel Corey. I miss Samantha Smith. In the numbers of Palestinian children killed by war, and in the numbers of Syrian children killed by war, we are missing the voices who were on track to make a positive difference, which is one of the stupidities of war: we kill the future good. Nip it in the bud.
-1 # dkonstruction 2012-12-05 08:44
Quoting Majikman:
Rachel Corey. Is that what you mean by civil disobedience? Didn't do much to hamper Israeli aggression as I recall.

I would never say that a strategy built upon non-violent civil disobedience is not risky or that people will not be hurt and or killed even when employing such tactics. Nor did i say that somehow if only the palestinians embraced such a tactic that somehow miraculously the israelis would "see the light". That is not the question. The question is how effective have the tactics been in getting the palestinians the state that they want? And, what has been the cost for their own people.

My contention is simply that the tactics that are currently being used have been counter productive for many years and it is the palestinian people as a whole that have suffered the results. This is not to say that Israel is not responsible for its actions, for the occupation and for the treatment of the palestinians; of course they are. but recognizing this doesn't get you anywhere i.e., it has nothing to do with the tactics you employ to change the situation or move you towards achieving your end goal.
+1 # engelbach 2012-12-09 16:59
"The Palestinians" are not a unified activist group, but mostly people who are just struggling to lead their daily lives.

Decisions are being made for them by groups like Hamas, just as decisions are being made for us by the U.S. government, over which we have no control.

Whatever the motives of Hamas in pursuing this self-destructiv e course, Israel's government has shown that they have no moral high ground whatsoever, killing so many civilians in obscenely one-sided engagements, while the militants remain relatively untouched.

Israel exists, and it's not going to go away. But its ruling class is a stain on its character. What is needed is a working class federation of Israelis and Palestinians opposing the policies and tactics of the leadership of both peoples.
+20 # Texas Aggie 2012-12-04 20:17
Civil disobedience only works against oppressors who have a modicum of conscience, who will not ruthlessly annihilate the people who are being civilly disobedient. That is not the history of the Israelis. Instead they have filled their prisons with Palestinians who opposed them or killed them outright. They then put a clamp on news so that not even their own media is allowed to publish their actions. Foreign media don't even have access to the events.

This policy of oppression has worked well until recently, but they have no plan B so they continue with what has worked so well in the past.
+2 # dkonstruction 2012-12-05 08:47
Quoting Texas Aggie:
Civil disobedience only works against oppressors who have a modicum of conscience, who will not ruthlessly annihilate the people who are being civilly disobedient. That is not the history of the Israelis. Instead they have filled their prisons with Palestinians who opposed them or killed them outright. They then put a clamp on news so that not even their own media is allowed to publish their actions. Foreign media don't even have access to the events.

This policy of oppression has worked well until recently, but they have no plan B so they continue with what has worked so well in the past.

do you really think white southern racists in this country had a "modicum of conscience."?

I agree with your take on what the Israelis have done/how they have treated the Palestinians but again the question is what tactics can both the palestinians and the israeli peace movement use to achieve the goals of a palestinian state and a just and lasting peace for both sides? Given the current situation and conditions under which palestinians live i don't see how anyone can say their tactics have been particularly successful.
+4 # 666 2012-12-05 06:58
dkon, I agree with you in principle, but not in application. while I support the use of non-violence over terrorism, your suggestions are IMO unrealistic, since your suggestions seem to presume some sort of freedom of movement (that doesn't exist) from Gaza into the buffer zone & into israel itself. Having spent time in the "occupied territories" [palestine]--wh ich are virtually prison-camp cities, the situation is totally unimaginable to those of us in the west. while there is some limited movement controlled by passes & then rigid "stop-and-searc h" harassment, delays, & violence for those allowed to pass, there is no way the israelis would allow any type of the protests you suggest.

I also agree with texas aggie; however, the most difficult aspect of non-violence is the amount of human sacrifice required to bring about a "modicum of conscience" & focus world attention. it's not for everybody & requires lots of training. Anybody training palestinians is likely to be murdered as a "terrorist"

Thinking of India, S. Africa, & the US civil rights movement, I think non-violence is accepted best by those who must make these sacrifices when there are no real alternatives left. I'm not sure the palestinians have hit this stage. They are too misdirected with false hopes by political players in the mideast (arabs, iran, israel, us, etc) & thus still have hope that violence can solve this problem. In this, I believe, they are wrong.
+1 # dkonstruction 2012-12-05 08:53
if i understand you correctly you end up by saying that you don't believe that the in this situation violence cannot solve the problem (thought this was what you were saying in your last paragraph). If this is the case (and i would agree with that assessment) then isn't it incumbant upon the palestinian leadership (and others on the outside) to be self-critical and look to other possible tactics?

I am fully aware of the lack of freedom of movement but this does not mean that non-violent civil disobedience cannot be employed...it may be different in the west bank vs. gaza but the tactic overall can still be used....e.g., a massive march of those either in gaza or the west bank to try and reach the other (which could be joined by progressive israelis and those from the outside world) to highlight this issue and the inherent unfairness of these restrictions on freedom of movement.

i'm not naive enough to think this will be an easy struggle or that the israelis will miraculously see the light but i don't see how anyone can say that the tactics that have been employed by the palestinians at least since the second intifada if not before have been in any way successful or helped move towards a viable palestinian state based on the pre-67 borders which is the goal.
+5 # Barbara N Shabo RN 2012-12-04 14:42
You are so right!
+23 # Ken Halt 2012-12-04 16:36
In fact Palestinians do engage in non-violent demonstrations and while doing so are routinely brutalized by the IDF. You won't learn this from the MSM, but listen to "Democracy Now", for instance, or other alternative news sources. Rachel Corrie was a non-violent demonstrator. Holding Israel to the standards of int'l law and the Geneva Conventions, which it agree to abide by when it was admitted to the UN, is neither anti-semitic nor anti-Israel. I advocate the same for my own country, the US.
+8 # grandma lynn 2012-12-05 01:18
I saw that when Obama went to Myanmar to initiate trade talks, Caterpillar went too, among the megabusinesses that seek new profit opportunities. All I could imagine was Caterpillar bulldozers put to use there, too, against the people when a time comes for the people to be put down. A Caterpillar bulldozer crushed the life out of Rachel Corrie. It made me wonder if Obama knows who Rachel Corrie was. If he knows how she died...
+8 # William Bjornson 2012-12-04 22:22
The zionists have been psychopathicall y killing Palestinians since zionists first set foot in Palestine. It was a peaceful place with freedom of religion where Sephardim and their Muslim brothers had lived side by side like Catholics and Protestants in America, for a thousand plus years. Look up the Stern Gang, et al. The violence has come from the ancestral Kazhari culture coming through. israel would love a Gandhian style movement allowing them to do whatsoever they want to these concentration camp victims. The Palestinians are a proud and ancient people (not everyone joined the Diaspora) and have been treated very poorly by all sides in this travesty. Recalling that the '67 War was a Pearl Harbor upon a relaxed Egypt during which israel deliberately tried to sink the USS Liberty and machine gun all of its crew, we . When help was sent, lyndon johnson recalled the help and let our own Navy guys be slaughtered by the zionists. We still owe serious payback on just that score. And Gandhi didn't have a voracious parasite insatiably nibbling away at India's territory, stealing Palestinian lands, even now, for new buffer settlements of Eastern Jews to absorb any major attack on israel that might threaten the zionists. Gandhian India was a stubborn and potentially enraged elephant. Palestine has been conned and brutalized into a crippled shadow of itself. Even so, still proud and still defiant and still not going quietly into that great night...Semper fi
+17 # Ken Halt 2012-12-05 05:21
Gandhi has been invoked by some of the comments on this thread. He was asked about the Palestinian conflict during the time of the British mandate. Gandhi on the Palestine conflict - 1938
"Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French...What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct...If they [the Jews] must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs... As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regard as an unacceptable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds." Mahatma Gandhi, quoted in "A Land of Two Peoples" ed. Mendes-Flohr.
0 # dkonstruction 2012-12-05 08:59
i meant to invoke only the tactic of non-violent civil disobedience and was in no way trying to compare the current day israeli/palesti nian conflict with the one between the british/indians . and so it is not whether anything "can be sadi against the Arab resistance" but rather to examine the effectiveness of tactics being employed and if the tactics are not working to be open to honestly looking at why and what other alternatives there might be.
+5 # Douglas Jack 2012-12-05 10:15
Thanks Ken, Its interesting to have this statement from 1938 from Mohandas Gandhi no-less. Gandhi correctly identifies the encroachment as being British facilitated at the time & now by US, Canadian / NATO. Gandhi goes on to point out the conflict of identifying religious acts with the aid of a bayonet. Considering the denial of Palestinian existence by such as Golda Meir ("invented people") & other Zionists who don't recognize the genocidal violence of the Stern Gang, pogroms against Palestinians etc, one wonders at whether Zionists have any reality-checks for balancing their day to day living. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/structure/2-satyagraha
-1 # dkonstruction 2012-12-05 08:56
resorting to pop-psychologic al descriptions ("psychopathica lly") of those with whom you disagree betrays your own racist bias (another example would be referring to jews as "voracious parasites"). this is no better than those on the other side who make such racist statements/char acterizations of arabs/palestini ans.
0 # dkonstruction 2012-12-05 09:01
What is needed is a serious reflection on tactics and strategy and not hollywood style rhetoric and fantasy ("still proud and still defiant and still not going quietly into that great night") or macho militaristic saber rattling ("Semper fi").
-2 # countthevotes 2012-12-06 18:12
Sadly, you don't understand who is it you're talking to. I've dealt with people like this William for so many years, and I know every nasty lie he will tell to anyone who will listen, and you are arguing with him civilly and as though he cares to hear you, and he does not. Don't waste your time.
+2 # dkonstruction 2012-12-07 08:11
Quoting countthevotes:
Sadly, you don't understand who is it you're talking to. I've dealt with people like this William for so many years, and I know every nasty lie he will tell to anyone who will listen, and you are arguing with him civilly and as though he cares to hear you, and he does not. Don't waste your time.

countthevotes, i appreciate your comment and i do understand who i'm dealing with when responding to these type of comments so my responses are more directed at the other posters as i think whether they are anti-jewish or anti-palestinia n comments need to be challenged.
-1 # brux 2013-09-10 11:14
> The zionists have been psychopathicall y killing Palestinians since zionists first set foot in Palestine.

There are so many rabid antisemites here this might as well be a neo-Nazi site instead of anything progressive.

The reason these hateful comments get so many votes and moderate comments get voted down is that rational sane people are leaving this discussion and website because this level of hatespeech is unacceptable.
-17 # Tigre1 2012-12-04 13:11
Love the weighty emotional terms he uses to slant his opinion of the sides in the conflict. "Punishment"... "miscreants"... look, just because I agree he's likely right, I can notice his very effective techniques.

Maybe he studied Gingrich's "How to talk like Newt" booklet...maybe what the liberal wing of the Democratic Party needs about a hundred more Chomskys...
+43 # Douglas Jack 2012-12-04 13:14
Thank you Noam for describing the human face of this issue. If the world would come to maturity of requiring both parties to openly 'debate' (French 'de' = 'undo' + 'bate' = 'the-fight') in equal time, recorded & published media widely circulated any grievance, before any acts of supposed 'self-defence' or aggression, then there is no reason for war. Mohandas Gandhi's 'Satyagraha' (Hindi 'truth-search') is based in the question to all parties simultaneously, "What are your best intentions & how can we help you fulfill these?" A key is getting all supposed 'diplomacy' out in the open where all parties are accountable for what they say. All of us everywhere at every level should engage each other in such 'dialectic' dialogues in our homes, buildings, communities, business, schools, government, media, institutions etc. Aggression, injury, war, armament production & hidden financing of conflict is for cowards only. Violent cowards although armed-to-the-te eth are the most afraid & immature people alive. Transparency & revelation of the truth is what USA, Canada, Israel are afraid of. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/structure/1-both-sides-now-article
+46 # James Marcus 2012-12-04 13:33
I am of Jewish, and American, heritage.
Now, well ashamed ...of both!
(Enough propaganda,. The Truth is.... what it Is!)
This is..... 'The Planet of The Apes'.....
+11 # brux 2012-12-04 15:49
Apes are more peaceful and smarter than humans, especially bonobos.
+6 # grandma lynn 2012-12-05 01:18
Don't malign the other apes.
+55 # genierae 2012-12-04 13:38
In the Palestinian territories there are so many young men who are filled with rage at their own impotence. Put yourself in their place. They receive no justice, their families are persecuted, their homes destroyed, and hundreds of these long-suffering people are violently murdered. It is a hopeless situation that they have had to endure their whole lives. It is no wonder that these young men lash out in their pain and outrage. They use what few weapons they have, knowing that this will not change anything. But they are convinced that they must do something or they will lose their very manhood. I do not condemn them.
+8 # Paddingtonprincess54 2012-12-05 05:38
yes genierae ... well put... it is rage.... rage from the darkest of places...most of us, thankfully will never go to that destination... However the world will never understand that, that very place is where terrorists are spawned .... Israel needs to understand the needs of the Palestinians ... they need to treat the Palestinians with respect, give them hope, and the basic rights any human being has the right, to survive... work, medicine, food and a safe place to call there own... and then maybe, maybe we can have peace in our life time...
+1 # dkonstruction 2012-12-05 09:09
is that our only choice either uncritical support or total condemnation?

how about some critical thinking?

one can oppose the israeli occupation, treatment of the palestinians etc., while at the same time recognizing (or at least being open to the possibility) that the palestinian leadership has not been perfect or has not made mistakes or that the tactics that they are currently using are not effective and are not helping them achieve their goal. this is not condeming the palestinians or their cause. but being "right" doesn't automatically get you what you want and there is where an understanding of and a critical assessment of tactics is essential. unfortunately it seems that few on this board want to engage in any serious critical thinking or discussion about what's working, what isn't and how to develop and employ tactics that actually work.

and so i disagree that "they use what weapons they have" because this presumes that a well organized mass campaign of non-violent civil disobedience is either not a "weapon" or would not be an effective one. and, sometimes, young men (or young people in general) who feel like they will "lose their very manhood" need to be shown through deeds as well as words that "manhood" does not equal the use of violence (as a tactic) and that to employ non-violent tactics is not being a wuss or mean that you are any less of "a man"...otherwis e we are just accepting alot of macho patriarchal crap about what it means to be a "real man"
-25 # MarieLavoe 2012-12-04 13:56
The Israeli and Palestinian issue cannot be understood by most.
+32 # Majikman 2012-12-04 15:00
Of course it can.
All one has to be able to do is read...lots of reading....with an open mind.
+56 # Lolanne 2012-12-04 15:17
Quoting MarieLavoe:
The Israeli and Palestinian issue cannot be understood by most.

Maybe not, but it's pretty easy to understand the concept of bullying. Israel is acting like the bully in the playground, trying to drive out all the smaller, weaker children in order to have the playground all to himself. And his parents are oh so proud of him for his exploits, and support him in every way possible.

The bully was victimized when he was weaker and had no way to protect himself, and he grew up to be exactly like those who hurt him.

Pretty much the same dynamic at work here.
-55 # brux 2012-12-04 15:51
Surrounded by a sea of bullying Muslims societies that can only agree to gang up and attack Israel, not to help their "Palestinian brothers", it's very rich to call the Israelis bullies. Islam is the most bullying and least fair system there is on the planet.
+20 # Peace Anonymous 2012-12-04 17:32
I would suggest you read an excellent book called, "The Hour of Sunlight". There have been times when Israel has had the chance to do so much more to find peaceful resolutions and have refused. They seem to somehow want the Palestinians in a cage and it has much more to do with politics than peace.
-3 # brux 2013-08-25 16:27
Whatever book you point to you merely have to look at where the rockets are coming from. Where the suicide bombers are coming from. Who has in their charter, STILL, that Israel must cease to exist. There are no liberal/progres sives here ... you might like to feel good about yourselves but the inability to see straight on this issue means you are no liberal/progres sive.
+19 # Smiley 2012-12-04 19:18
Strange, isn't it that prior to the formation of Israel Jewish communities were treated much better in Palestine and all the Muslim countries than in Europe in the Christian countries...No pogroms.
+9 # abdullahiedward 2012-12-05 02:06
Thanks brux for proving you know as much about Islam as you do about the Palestinian/Isr aeli issue.
-2 # brux 2013-08-25 16:29
And you know this because you read the Koran? I know plenty about Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Israel and the neighboring nations ... more than you do apparently.
+8 # tpmco 2012-12-05 01:58
After the lopsided vote in the United Nations last week, I'd say there is near universal understanding of the issue, worldwide.
+34 # Dr. Amy L. Beam 2012-12-04 13:57
Seems to me that rockets are an avenue of last resort. An Israeli 13-year-old boy created a phone app that will send you a text whenever a rocket is launched allowing you 15 seconds to take shelter. It's called Color Red. So the fact is, as Chomsky points out, very few Israelis are killed by rockets, while thousands of Palestinians have been killed by Israeli rockets and bombs... and that does not count how many have died from malnutrition and lack of medical services. http://on.aol.com/video/israeli-teen-near-gaza-creates-rocket-detecting-app-517545637
0 # dkonstruction 2012-12-04 15:02
Dr. Beam, for me the point is not how "effective" are the rockets or how much of a "real threat" they are but rather what their political impact is and at this point the only thing i think the rockets accomplish is to fall right into the hands of the most reactionary forces in Israel and allow them to prey on Isreali fears (which are real no matter how "remote" the chances are of a rocket hitting/killing someone...the psychological toll if nothing else is very real and highly exploitable by the Israeli right).

Rockets (like violence or non-violent civil disobedience) are a tactic and so "we" should always be asking/question ing how effective the tactics are and when they are not effective we should always be open to changing them and not fetishize or get stuck in using the same tactics over and over is they are not helping to accomplish our goal.

So, i would agree that in some ways the rockets are "an avenue of last resort" but this does not make them effective and if they are not it seems to me it is more a commentary on the failings of the palestinian leadership (just because one criticizes Israel does not or should not mean that we are uncritical of the Palestinians) to develop and support other tactics that perhaps have the possibility of being much more effective. there have been/are efforts by some Palestinians to develop a non-violent civil disobedience movement but it has not been embraced by the leadership of either Fatah or Hamas.
0 # wrknight 2012-12-04 16:44
dkon is right. The tactics employed by the Palestinians meet the definition of insanity; namely, doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Their tactics haven't succeeded in over 50 years and they're not going to succeed now or any time in the near future.

It's time for the Palestinian to adopt a new strategy and change their tactics. A Ghandian approach may not achieve immediate results, but it sure would go a long way to reducing American support for Israel without which there might be a much better chance for peace.
+6 # keenon the truth 2012-12-04 22:43
I wish you were right. It seems more likely that we would forget about the Palestinians completely in that case.
+8 # grandma lynn 2012-12-05 01:21
How about a different U.S. approach? We do our own insane, repetitive response to Israel.
+1 # engelbach 2013-08-26 16:05
It's not the Palestinians, but the leadership of the militant groups, which have their own agenda, including martyrdom and keeping alive the flame of hatred.

If Israel stopped building settlements and seriously sat down to peace talks there might be hope of defusing the self-destructiv e militancy.

But then, the Israeli ruling class also has an agenda.

Both sides are vicymized by forces that control them. However, there is no question that the Palestinians are the ones who really are suffering.
-2 # brux 2013-08-26 21:28
There is a movie about the IDF that came our recently, where one IDF agent says that a Palestinian leader told him their aim was to make sure Israel suffered - that's all.

So, Israel is suffering, and they want to make sure the Palestinians do to, otherwise there is no incentive for the Palestinians to do anything different.

The problem is how? Unless they kill many more Palestinians in a war they lose proportionately , and when the use their overwhelming force the generate sympathy for the Palestinians, so they slowly and continually build settlements as a peaceful reminder that time is NOT on the Palestinian's side as they want to think ... I think the settlements work, and are a brilliant idea. War by urban development ... better than tearing houses down, white phosphorus or military confrontation.

What else can they do?
0 # Douglas Jack 2013-09-10 07:08
dkonstruction, Your definition of 'passive resistance' being 'protest' centered, is deficient. Mohandas Gandhi & India made effective action through 'SWARAJ' (Hindi 'self-sufficien cy') & 'Satyagraha' (H. 'truth-search' in order to throw off parasite British (Canadian & Australian included) exploiters. India encouraged & organized their individual & collective capacities to produce their own food, shelter, clothing, warmth & health. Palestinians as well understand Swaraj, but run into the reality of Israel bulldozing an average of 13 homes per day, destroying orchards & impeding their livelihood in everyway.

Swaraj is also 'solidarity' for all people everywhere but particularly those in most need. Those of us worldwide who recognize malevolence in home destruction, land & resource-theft, apartheid & exclusion from natural rights, stand in solidarity with Palestinians. We support Palestinian rights to co-exist with equal rights & responsibilitie s to land, water & resources, to economic rights to organize & democratic rights to vote. The problem is Israelis who are taking everything for themselves exclusively based on 'belief' systems for religious privilege. Forcing a belief on another is unjust. Forcing a belief on oneself is oppressive & self-destructiv e. 'SATYAGRAHA' would have Israel enable all the 'dialectic-righ t' ('both-sided') to speak publicly together. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/structure/both-sides-now-equal-time-recorded-dialogues
0 # dkonstruction 2013-09-10 08:24
Quoting Douglas Jack:
dkonstruction, Your definition of 'passive resistance' being 'protest' centered, is deficient.

Where did I offer a definition of "passive resistance" at all? I don't think I did as this is not a term I would even use. I never want people to resist passively. I think my main points in this thread were aimed at those who (like myself) are completely critical of Israeli state policies to also have some critique of the Palestinians. Most of what you get in this country is simply: "Israel/bad; Palestinians/go od" with no analysis or critique of the Palestinian movement at all and in particular their leadership which for the most part has not served them well in the past 30 years at least (and certainly not since Arafat became head of the Palestinian National Authority which became incredibly corrupt and full of nepotism and then simply went after any and all critics like Edward Said whose writings Arafat banned in Palestine.

So, yes I am completely critical of the Israeli gov't but I no longer have any patience or tolerance for those who consider themselves either "progressive" or "left" who have no analysis/critiq ue at all of the Arab states and in the case of Israel/Palestin e of the Palestinians. It is just one more example of how pathetic the vast majority of the so-called progressive/lef t movement is in this country and how pathetic their analysis (when they have any at all).
0 # Douglas Jack 2013-09-10 11:36
dkon, My mistake. The term you use is "Ghandian style movement of non-violent civil disobedience as the prime weapon of resistance". As I've been reading your comments often with great appreciation for your analyses over years now, I've noticed a lack of reference to the Swaraj & Satyagraha 'corner-stones' of Gandhi's non-violence.

If you become familiar with these practices, they include compassionate livelihood mutual-aid & open public published community dialogues as primary human-rights & obligations. I believe these 'processes' will take your wonderful 'message' ('content') to realization. I've web-linked some descriptions above previously. Here's a piece on both & the web, Gandhi's writings & other sources have good descriptions about how India employed these. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/structure/2-satyagraha
+1 # dkonstruction 2013-09-10 12:18
Quoting Douglas Jack:
...I've noticed a lack of reference to the Swaraj & Satyagraha 'corner-stones' of Gandhi's non-violence.

Douglas, first thanks for the kind words.

Perhaps this is due to the fact that I am not a pacifist though I often have much admiration and respect for many pacifist leaders and movements over the years. My own take is that violence and non-violence are tactics and not strategies (a difference I find most activists in particular do not understand or appreciate) and thus the use of violence is or should be a tactical decision in which case sometimes it is useful/necessar y and "productive" while in others it is simply not. At the same time, I tend to believe that violence as a tactic, when it needs to be employed, should only be done for "self-defense" (so, for example, to paraphrase, Malcolm X, if you turn your cheek i'll turn mine but if you smack me I may damn well smack you back).

So, for example, in the case of Spain during the Spanish Civil War I don't think they had any alternative other than to fight back against the fascists with arms (even though they lost but that's another discussion) but in the case of the Palestinians, other than defending themselves against out and out armed assault by the Israeli's I do not believe they can win militarily and so in this case think that non-violent approaches could be far more effective.
0 # Douglas Jack 2013-09-10 16:42
Dkon, Gandhi & pacifists understand that; livelihood or economic well-being create conditions of peace. As we create 'Swaraj' (Hindi 'self-sufficien cy') even among those with few resources, then we are able to disengage from dysfunctional systems such as India with Gandhi rebuilding its self-sufficienc y & then disengaging from the British system. This combination caused British business parasitizing off of India to go bankrupt.

Manifesting self-sufficienc y is more important than protesting or public demonstration. Under Swaraj, Indians celebrate strengths & capacities. When they come together or march this is a time mostly of celebration of capacity rather than demonstration against or pleading for the strengths of others.

Worldviews which we develop in our minds become a foundation, not just from words but from the core of actions & relationships. We must walk the talk in every way.

Humanity's worldwide 'indigenous' (Latin 'self-generatin g') ancestors developed a deep culture of interdiscipline mutual-aid called Great Law of Peace built upon:
1) association / living in proximity of Multihome apartment, townhouse & village-like building 'community' (L 'com' = 'together' + 'munus' = 'gift or service').
2) inclusive welcoming time-based integrated human-resource accounting systems & universal progressive ownership governance structures within Production Society specialties.
+3 # Ray Kondrasuk 2012-12-04 16:03
The earlier Gaza-launched Qassam 1, from what I can gather, is about 30 inches long and 3 inches in diameter and carries a half-kilo (17.6 ounces) of explosives. No guidance system for these basement-built, 2-3 mile-range glorified bottle rockets hurled barely beyond the borders.

I wouldn't want one to go off in my lap, but their punch is trivial compared to IDF artillery.

Recently, more distant Israeli targets have been attacked. Are those Katyusha rockets with greater range/payload? Anyone know?
+2 # dkonstruction 2012-12-05 09:15
Quoting Ray Kondrasuk:
The earlier Gaza-launched Qassam 1, from what I can gather, is about 30 inches long and 3 inches in diameter and carries a half-kilo (17.6 ounces) of explosives. No guidance system for these basement-built, 2-3 mile-range glorified bottle rockets hurled barely beyond the borders.

I wouldn't want one to go off in my lap, but their punch is trivial compared to IDF artillery.

Recently, more distant Israeli targets have been attacked. Are those Katyusha rockets with greater range/payload? Anyone know?

the point is not how "effective" the rockets are but rather what is their political impact and here i would argue the only thing the rocket attacks do is bolster the most reactionary forces in Israel and allow them to play on the very real fears of the israelis within range of the rockets. and so if this is the case then how to the rocket attacks advance the palestinian struggle for a state and lasting peace?
+3 # Ken Halt 2012-12-06 08:06
DK:"...the how to(sic) the rocket attacks advance the palestinian(sic ) struggle for a state and lasting peace?" Your comment is based on the presumption that Israel actually wants peace. After observing the confrontation for a long time it is quite clear that Israel does not want peace, it wants the land and all-important water and mineral resources of its neighbors. The history goes back much farther than 1948, at least to the Balfour Declaration. Actions speak louder than words.
+4 # dkonstruction 2012-12-07 08:13
Quoting Ken Halt:
DK:"...the how to(sic) the rocket attacks advance the palestinian(sic) struggle for a state and lasting peace?" Your comment is based on the presumption that Israel actually wants peace. After observing the confrontation for a long time it is quite clear that Israel does not want peace, it wants the land and all-important water and mineral resources of its neighbors. The history goes back much farther than 1948, at least to the Balfour Declaration. Actions speak louder than words.

Actually Ken, my comment is not based on the presumption that Israel (if by this you mean the Israeli gov't as opposed to the Israeli population who still show, in public oppinion polls, that they support the two-state solution based on pre-67 borders). My comment was only addressing Palestinian tactics regardless of whether the Israeli gov't is serious about making peace and creating a viable palestinian state.
+42 # tbcrawford 2012-12-04 14:02
Thank you Genierae! I have been sickened by news from Gaza and the West Bank for years and am deeply ashamed of our government. Knowledge of the endless cruelty and understandable anger at the resulting hopelessness may at least bring others to your conclusion...We must keep supporting people like Chomsky and demanding justice from our representatives .
+43 # walt 2012-12-04 14:05
And worst of all is that the USA is used to accomplish all this! Note the recent vote in the UN regarding Palestinian status.

We are controlled by the lobby.
+26 # Douglas Jack 2012-12-04 14:11
Just before the UN General Assembly vote on Resolution 67/19 Canada's minister of Foreign Affairs, John Baird made the statement against Palestine's recognition at the UN, "We will stand with the Jewish state".
Can you imagine a foreign government minister making obligatory statements about privileging Jewish or any other religious advantage, in any country with 50% of the population who have Christian, Islamic & other beliefs? To describe any state in terms of one particular religion or another is not only an affront to those of different belief but as well to those holding that particular belief. Belief is never meant to be forced upon any people through segregation, discrimination or by any means. Canada is a colonial country without perceived obligation to the rights & heritage of indigenous peoples. Baird is a corporate manipulator. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/home/2-mutual-aid
+35 # reiverpacific 2012-12-04 14:17
Again, "Scorched earth", or state sanctioned vandalism and looting, similar to what was done to the American tribes in needlessly slaughtering the huge Buffalo herds and the South after the Civil War; then on to Mexico and the Phillipines.
Then Iran, Guatemala and onwards all over the globe.
Israel had a good teacher and financier in the US -and the UK, who passed on the Imperial Baton on in that oft-trotted out "special relationship".
BTW, the British "Empah" didn't fold peacefully, Ghandi notwithstanding ; it collapsed under it's own arrogance and the incompetence of the upper-class dolts who ran things, weakened by WW11, a strong resistance overseas from the likes of Abdul Nasser and a burgeoning, powerful working class labor movement within, demanding their share of the fruits of their hard work, infrastructure building and factory production.
I was a kid then and there and still remember it all surprisingly clearly.
+2 # abdullahiedward 2012-12-05 02:31
Very good analysis of the actual causes of the collapse of the British Empire. Here's another example you might want to use in the future. In 1973 Nigeria changed from driving on the right like they do in England and other colonies, to driving on the left, like they do in most of the rest of the world. At the time more than 90% of the vehicles imported into the country were of British origin. Today the equation is completely reversed. Less than 10% of vehicles imported into Nigeria are of British origin. Now if you multiply that by the number of former British colonies in Africa and the rest of the world, you will see what sort of economic impact "Independence" had on the British economy.
+20 # Archie1954 2012-12-04 14:35
The Israelis are incorrigible so I blame the US for encouraging such violence against a civilian population. Any dncent moral nation with such power would have restrained its proxy instead of encouraged it in such deadly deeds. You can see the old addage "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" at work here.
+20 # Rascalndear 2012-12-04 15:00
Thanks, Mr. Chomsky, for being such a thorough and clear-eyed witness.
+20 # Peace Anonymous 2012-12-04 15:01
Today in an interview the host spoke of polarization in our society. When the world overwhelmingly supports the UN recognition of Palestine why did only 9 countries NOT support Palestine?
We are not only polarized politically at home but we have cut ourselves off from the rest of the world by continuing down this insane path.
I am not anti-Semitic. I support Israel's right to exist. Their borders were clearly defined - in 1948.
-15 # countthevotes 2012-12-04 15:04
I was a Chomsky "true believer" for so many years, like many on the Left, I thought he was a guru who only ever told the truth -- just an endless stream of facts I could trust. I listened to him and Amy Goodman every day on my public radio station. I'm Jewish, and I was always horrified by Chomsky's Israeli sermons, believing everything. Then one day I heard him debate Alan Gershowitz - who I could not stand -- on Democracy Now. I was stunned at how Dershowitz wiped the floor with him. STUNNED. I still can't stand Dershowitz, but the awful reality seemed to be that Chomsky was not always accurate, was in fact stating inaccuracies that A.D. called him on, and he couldn't defend himself. I never saw him the same way again, and it was the first step in my realization that I needed more information on the Israeli / Palestinian conflict, from all sides, and that I could not and should not take a one sided story as all of the truth. Chomsky represents himself as a "just the facts" kind of guy, but I don't believe it for a second, he so clearly has a strong anti-Israel agenda -- personally I think it has something to do with his issues with his father, who was a Rabbi, and they didn't have a good relationship. I know, total speculation, but his pure one-sidedness for all these decades and endless hammering on Israel makes me question his perspective. I'm personally learning as much as I can now from both sides, and pray for the end of hard-line fundamentalism on both sides.
+17 # Majikman 2012-12-04 15:59
Chomsky is not anti-Israel, but anti-Zionist. I invite you to watch an 11 part debate on Democracy Now between Dershowitz and Norman Finklestein for a real floor mopping (google Debate: Finklestein-Der showitz). FYI Finklestein was an eminent scholar at Purdue and up for tenure. Because of lobbying by Dershowitz and AIPAC, he was not only denied tenure but also fired. Anyone who goes against AIPAC is destroyed.
+6 # abdullahiedward 2012-12-05 02:38
Thanks for this. Finkelstein picks up where Chomsky may have shortcoming. The fact that Dershowitz might have won a debate against Chomsky doesn't justify the belligerence of Israel and its blindfolded support from the USA.
-1 # brux 2013-08-25 16:38
No, but you are denying that there is in fact many reasons Israel and the US and the West oppose the Muslim way of life, at the root of it is a religion governing whole countries irrationally and with inequality ... that cannot exists in an enlightened world - PERIOD. If you think in 1000 years there will be any Muslim run governments in the world you are wrong, they will all be torn down - by the west.
+26 # Dr. Amy L. Beam 2012-12-04 16:45
Here's a fact to stick in your hat: My Palestinian friends who have lived in DC for many years had 40,000 citrus and olive trees plowed down in the Gaza strip during the previous two big attacks. Their mother lived there on the land along with many workers in their homes. The Israeli's also dynamited the water wells on the land. My friends were told "Yours was the last farm we destroyed because you are Americans. Otherwise, we would have done it sooner." PS: Your psychoanalysis of Professor Chomsky suggests it is you who needs the couch.
+18 # reiverpacific 2012-12-04 18:20
Quoting Dr. Amy L. Beam:
Here's a fact to stick in your hat: My Palestinian friends who have lived in DC for many years had 40,000 citrus and olive trees plowed down in the Gaza strip during the previous two big attacks. Their mother lived there on the land along with many workers in their homes. The Israeli's also dynamited the water wells on the land. My friends were told "Yours was the last farm we destroyed because you are Americans. Otherwise, we would have done it sooner." PS: Your psychoanalysis of Professor Chomsky suggests it is you who needs the couch.

Absolutely right on!
I can never forgive them for what they did to these thousand year old olive groves, the drinking water was bad enough but that's what I meant by my note about "Scorched earth" policy or state-sanctione d -even encouraged- vandalism and earth-rape or as it is put nicely in diplomatic circles, "By any means necessary".
Last time I looked, that was not Israel or anybody else's "right to defend itself! It is naked, sadistic, genocidal aggression.
And does anybody remember Rachel Corrie, mown down and killed in cold blood by a US-made bulldozer, like the olive and citrus groves; Caterpillar I believe.
B.T.W., Chomsky was recently denied entry into Israel where he was to give a speech at a university there; so he must be doing something right to proto-Fascist LIKUD and their war-hungry Yahoo of a leader.
+7 # grandma lynn 2012-12-05 01:29
Author Dee Brown recorded (Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee, Creek Mary's Blood) our U. S. cavalry destroying hundreds of peach trees necessary to N.A. life in the American Southwest, as part of aggressive government extermination of tribes. Foolish, foolish, foolish. Cruel, cruel, cruel. Pea-brained, pea-brained, pea-brained.
+5 # Douglas Jack 2012-12-04 20:11
Dr. Amy, Do you have e-links to the destruction of Palestinian orchards which I can pass around? The problem is always getting the message out past big-money's control of corporate media. Some of my Jewish friends believe the 'hates' against Palestinians & Muslims predominant in the few synagogues I have visited. On a few occasions while attending public events at a couple of synagogues, I'm alarmed at the amount of one-sided hatred being expressed. My friends who aren't closed minded do so as supposedly non-observant Jews who although deeply observant for 'honouring-life ' (supposedly the core of Judaism) keep themselves integrated & open to hearing & interacting with all sides. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/structure/1-converting-social-media-from-mono-to-dialogue
+7 # Texas Aggie 2012-12-04 20:25
If you want links to what the Israelis have been doing in Gaza and the West Bank, go to www.cpt.org. The Christian Peacemaker Teams are still active on the West Bank in trying to protect the Palestinians from the Israeli army and the Israeli settlers. This may not give you a link to the particular event you are looking for, but going through their archives you can find many similar events where the Israelis cut down Palestinian orchards or fenced them off prohibiting the Palestinians from harvesting. Then since the Palestinians "obviously" had abandoned their orchards, the Israelis appropriated them.
+1 # abdullahiedward 2012-12-05 02:56
You can also try al-awda.org which will plug you right into the Palestinian Right to Return Coalition for daily first hand reports from Palestine
+2 # abdullahiedward 2012-12-05 02:46
Thanks Amy. This is a great reference. Now if your readers would just take the trouble to multiply that 40,000 cash generating livelihood supporting trees times the thousands of other Palestinians who were so victimized, then maybe, just maybe some of these myopic Americans might get a better picture of the type of repression they are supporting in that God forsaken land.
+12 # Smiley 2012-12-04 19:32
Thank you! I just watched that debate and while i agree that Dershowitz is the better speaker (more energetic and forceful)I believe that Chomsky clearly won the debate. Dershowitz, for all his talk of "pragmatism" never came up with a way to de-cantonize what has been done to the West Bank. Now Bibi's response to the UN vote clearly shows what his land & resource grabbing intentions have always been.
+5 # abdullahiedward 2012-12-05 02:35
Dershowitz is a lawyer. Chomsky is not. To compare the two or pit the two in a debate is like comparing cheese with chalk and sending Tiny Tim to battle Mike Tyson.
-1 # brux 2013-08-25 16:41
That is one of the moet ridiculous arguments I've ever heard inm y life. So ... Dershowitz won the debate because he can argue better ... the whole game is about arguing, so that should be forgotten or overlooked .... are you crazy?

Chomsky should not have debated if he did not think he can argue ... but in fact Chomsky can argue brilliantly - when he is arguing about something that he is right on. In this case his whole pro-Palestinian spiel is total baloney and his lack of arguments and gyrations of the truth count for nothing.
+1 # Artemis 2013-08-26 02:27
This is a little hard to believe. I have never seen Chomsky as anti-Israel, just anti its appalling policies and I cross check constantly, so have not seen any grave mistakes in his comments or debates.
Dershowitz is a bully, selective in his "truth-saying" and very good at manipulating others in discussions. Chomsky and others have proven that he distorts facts.
Please post link of this discussion so we can judge for ourselves. Perhaps the problem was yours, ever believing anyone to be a guru.
+24 # Paddingtonprincess54 2012-12-04 15:16
So refreshing to have a brilliant mind validate my thoughts and feelings... I try and explain to friends, by asking them how they would feel if they were to leave their houses in the morning only to come home at night and have not only their house destroyed but to have the State and neighbours building on that very same property....?

Mr Chomsky however does it with historical facts to back up his argument.
+11 # Majikman 2012-12-04 15:36
There's another issue to be considered under the "blowback and unintended consequences" category: a rise of anti-semitism. Just as Chomsky cited the Uighurs of Xinjiang province attacking the Han, I won't be surprised to see that same dynamic playing out in Europe...dismay ed, but not surprised.
-20 # azullman 2012-12-04 16:15
I support your guidelines on civil discourse: "...Do not advocate violence, or any illegal activity." Too bad it doesn't apply to Chomsky, who declares that "The crimes trace back to 1948, when hundreds of thousands of Palestinians fled from their homes..." Is he advocating for the preceding violent and illegal attack on a state duly constituted by the United Nations -- Israel -- by its Arab neighbors? Does that and subsequent attacks on Israel have NOTHING to do with the situation? Does Chomsky accept all these violent and illegal actions? I am sorry for the Gazans and other Arabs, and for Chomsky, who have been unable to come to grips with reality and who have been used as pawns by their "leadership".
+8 # David Heizer 2012-12-04 21:43
Quoting azullman:
Is he advocating for the preceding violent and illegal attack on a state duly constituted by the United Nations -- Israel -- by its Arab neighbors?

Israel was not "duly constituted by the United Nations".

"On November 29, 1947, the General Assembly adopted a resolution recommending the adoption and implementation of a 'Plan of Partition with Economic Union'.... The plan was to replace the British Mandate with 'Independent Arab and Jewish States'...."

However, "[n]either Britain nor the UN Security Council acted to implement the resolution.... during the period between the adoption of Resolution 181(II) and the termination of the British Mandate."

Meanwhile, while Britain balked and ran out the clock, rising sectarian violence "caused the US to withdraw their support for the Partition plan". The British withdrew their forces, while "Tiberias, Haifa, Safed, Beisan, Jaffa and Acre fell" to the Zionists, "resulting in the flight of more than 250,000 Palestinian Arabs."

Finally, "[o]n May 14, 1948, on the day in which the British Mandate over Palestine expired, the Jewish People's Council ... approved a proclamation declaring the establishment of a Jewish state in Eretz Israel, to be known as the State of Israel."


The Partition Plan was strenuously objected to by one of the parties to it, and it was never implemented by the U.N.
+4 # keenon the truth 2012-12-04 23:00
And i believe the very next day America formally recognised Israel as a state.
+1 # Mannstein 2013-08-26 14:57
I'd also recognize it if I knew where its borders are. Some claim they run through Baghdad because Abraham allegedly slept there.
-1 # brux 2013-08-26 20:53
The border issue is silly this is a pragmatic secession, not a historical one or religious one really ... just as Muslims in just about any country once their population reaches a certain level start agitating for independence ... minorities in Muslim countries that are treated unfairly or intolerantly have the right to demand independence - even more, because they actually have a reason.
+4 # owencrump 2012-12-04 16:32
I was hoping, given the title of the article - "What the American Media Won't Tell You About Israel" - that Chomsky might have told us WHY the American Media Won't Tell Us About Israel.
+7 # Texas Aggie 2012-12-04 20:28
Some things are too obvious to bother mentioning. One of them is the control that AIPAC and similar organizations have over the whole political situation in the US. What happened when the play about Rachel Currie tried to run on Broadway?
+13 # keenon the truth 2012-12-04 17:04
During the second world war,the French resisted hard, and it seems people have nothing but admiration for them. The Palestinians are in a similar position. Is it because they are not white, that some of you above are condemning them? Would you not struggle hard if it was happening to you?
+1 # Mannstein 2013-08-26 14:59
"Is it because they are not white"

Nothing to do with race and everything to do that they don't own Hollywood nor the Western Media.
-17 # tahoevalleylines 2012-12-04 19:24
Some people in the neighborhood are playing with old, weeping dynamite and across the property line, the other kids found some cans of gasoline. Hmmm...

Empires ebb and flow, we called it Manifest Destiny in America. Not exactly fair to all parties. Unilke the settlers in America, Israel shows written claim to their land over 3000 years ago. Jews have claims to Jerusalem real estate over 1500 years prior to Muhammadanism.

We can weep for the Palestinian Arabs, and they MUST be recompensed. But it is a fools errand, and Sage Chomsky knows full well he is milking this story by painting Israel as bad boy. Next installment will be Juan Cole, then President Carter's turn, bla bla...

Reality strikes when Israel is pushed to the wall, Syrian/Iranian WMD lands in Tel Aviv, and Damascus goes missing, along with Iranian military infrastructure. If Egypt gets brave enough to jump in, say goodbye to the Aswan Dam. Will that make the peace coterie satisfied?

USA citizens by the tens of thousands could write a similar if less stark, sad Palestinian story line, having lost family homes, farms and businesses to the US highway and redevelopment processes of the last 60 years. The fewusing violence as redress were incarcerated.

Whether or not Palestinians receive just compensation has not been a concern of nations and belief systems aimed at destroying Eretz Israel.
+13 # Texas Aggie 2012-12-04 20:39
What you are saying is that 'Might Makes Right!"

And what written claim does Israel have? You surely don't regard religious texts as having validity, do you? And if you do, then why do you feel that present day Israelis whose ancestors either fled Palestine at the behest of the Romans or never lived anywhere near there have a better claim to the land than those whose ancestors stayed in the face of the Roman tyranny and then later converted to Islam? And you do realize that the very religious texts that you claim gave the land to the Issac's offspring gave prior claim to Ishmael, don't you?
+4 # abdullahiedward 2012-12-05 03:30
This is nothing short of wonderful. Who would have expected such an astute observation to come out of the Great State of Texas:-) Those wonderful people who gave us George W. Bush!!!
+1 # Mannstein 2013-08-26 15:04
You sound like an anti Texan. Now if you were an anti Semite you'd have something to worry about.
+1 # Mannstein 2013-08-26 15:03
The Israelis believe God is a real estate agent.
+9 # Texas Aggie 2012-12-04 20:43
"USA citizens by the tens of thousands could write a similar if less stark, sad Palestinian story line, having lost family homes, farms and businesses to the US highway and redevelopment processes"

You do notice that these people at least got monetary compensation, don't you? Whether it was what they wanted is a different story, but the Palestinians get killed.
+2 # abdullahiedward 2012-12-05 03:28
Your theoretic scenario doesn't equate with reality. Iran and Syria have lived in peaceful co-existence with Israel for decades and no WMD's have been launched against Israel during the period. Because something could "conceivably happen" doesn't mean it will!
+6 # Mannstein 2012-12-05 09:31
I can hear the ADL now. This guy is a self hating Jew and anyone that agrees with him an anti Semite.

Incidentally, the UN General Assembly just passed a resolution calling for Israel to allow weapons inspectors to inspect the Israeli nuclear stock pile. The usual suspects voted no with the rest of the civilized world voting yes.
+1 # Mannstein 2013-08-26 15:02
Eretz Israel? Is that Lebensraum for the Jews?
+14 # MsAnnaNOLA 2012-12-04 19:42
The palistinians were living in harmony with everyone until their land was taken from them. If our homeland was invaded and stolen how would we act? If further injury was Done to our people via systematically withholding food and medicine, how would we act? Most Americans do not even know how Israel was formed. There was another land where Israel is now. Do some reading.
+10 # reiverpacific 2012-12-04 20:12
Quoting MsAnnaNOLA:
The palistinians were living in harmony with everyone until their land was taken from them. If our homeland was invaded and stolen how would we act? If further injury was Done to our people via systematically withholding food and medicine, how would we act? Most Americans do not even know how Israel was formed. There was another land where Israel is now. Do some reading.

Another good analogy with the American Indians "Living in Harmony", stolen land, theocratic aggression.
BTW, Islam dates back only to 682 AD (or in there somewhere) and acknowledges Jesus as a former prophet. So who put him to death as a freedom fighter and prophet? Not really the Romans but the Sanhedrin (Israelite priesthood) greed-mongers for shaming their profiteering and money -lending and changing activities within' the allegedly sacred precincts of their own temple.
Such a proud history.
-3 # countthevotes 2012-12-06 18:27
It was encouraging in the first few days this article was out to see there was sane discourse, and the Jew-hating loonies had not descended. But here they are, of course, now and forever singing their familiar song. And meanwhile none of my comments have been posted, so far. I hope to see them soon, or I will have to feel I'm being censored for critiquing Chomsky, and calling out the anti-Semites who always show up like buzzards around his articles.
+1 # Artemis 2012-12-08 09:25
define anti-semite.

demonstrate what is anti-semitic here.
+4 # abdullahiedward 2012-12-05 03:34
Apparently, if you believe the Zionist propagandist, ripping up trees, bombing water wells, destroying homes, destroying the economy, withholding vital supplies and medication, assassinating leaders, building tall fences, etc. etc. are not justification for resistance and reprisals.
+7 # munza1 2012-12-05 02:51
The bottom line regardless of calling this factual article a rant is that Israeli policy has been to occupy Greater Israel with Jews and bit by bit ethnically cleanse The Other. That is the one thread, the one goal, that explains it all.
+4 # engelbach 2012-12-05 09:25
Comments about what the Palestinians "should do" are fatuous. The hard line is coming from Hamas and the other militant groups, not from spontaneous unity among the population.

Israel has meted out collective punishment in response to the acts of a few people. That's a war crime.

I wish people here would qualify their remarks by referring to Hamas and the Israel government, rather than collectively to all the people of either place.
+4 # cesar 2012-12-05 11:29
"an eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind" - Mahatma Gandhi
-8 # artic fox 2012-12-05 12:38
It's time for Professor Chomsky to stick to his field of expertise - linguistics. I believe he forgets the 1948 Arab determination to drive Israel into the sea. It was NOT the Israelis who have time and time again broken peace attempts - that's the standard Arab tactic - wear Israelis down to concede all time with nothing in return. What Israel did in the past was to blow up houses and not people - something Prof. Chomsky conveniently forgets. Yes there is a vast expanse of desert in the Sinai that is doing nothing for anybody - it's time the Egyptians offer their Arab neighbors free land in the Sinai and stop the squalor in Gaza - kept perpetually like that as their propaganda that the Arab world keeps on the front burner for their own political purposes. I dare say there are smart Arabs in Gaza who can create a better life for their families there but are held back by Hamas. For 64 years the Arab side has done nothing to reach an accord with Israel, which has been a beacon of democracy in the region. How come we never hear about Arab countries doing something to alleviate the squalor in Gaza - is that because they haven't done anything.
+10 # Eduardo3 2012-12-05 16:25
Re: "beacon of democracy"
You can only call Israel a democracy if you ignore all the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories who live under Israeli control but do not have any right to vote in Israel's elections.
Considering that any Jewish person from any part of the world is welcome to immigrate to Israel, but Palestinians who were born in that land have no right to return, I think it'd be more accurate to describe Israel as a beacon of ethnic-religiou s nationalism.
+7 # Mannstein 2012-12-05 20:58
"How come we never hear about Arab countries doing something to alleviate the squalor in Gaza - is that because they haven't done anything."

Haven't you heard Gaza is under a total Israeli blockade? Nothing goes in or comes out unless the Chosen say so. Gaza received some EU aid in the past in terms of infrastructure which Israel promptly trashed at the next opportune moment.
-4 # keenon the truth 2012-12-05 22:58
"How come we never hear about Arab countries doing something to alleviate the squalor in Gaza - is that because they haven't done anything."

And you don't know about the tunnels?
+3 # Mannstein 2012-12-07 20:58
And you know nothing about the IDF thugs who have gone into Gaza and trashed Palestinian schools and their facilities built with help from the international community? What is Israel afraid of? Would it be an educated Palestinian who might become a leader for his people and demand justice in the Hague?
+1 # Mannstein 2013-08-26 15:11
Every time a foreign country contributes to Gaza for building schools and hospitals the IDF come in and destroy them on some pretense.
-1 # brux 2013-08-26 21:23
Not every time, but it is clear that Israel does not want Palestine to get to a business as usualy economy until they stop trying to destroy them. Since that is probably not going to happen, the Palestinians just make it worse on themselves, or rather Iran, Syria and the Palestinian leadership makes it harder every year on the Palestinians people by keeping them in Purgatory.
+1 # C. Winslow 2012-12-05 13:44
Technically the Sephardic community does not include all of the southern diaspora who are better identified as Oriental Jews. The original religious center of the Separdim was Constantinople- Istanbul. This is important because the Oriental Jewish community shares some of the bedouin ethos with the Arabian Islamic community. Consider the scene in Lawrence of Arabia when Ali (Omar Shafiq) shoots Lawrence's guide at the water hole. First-come-firs t-served and tit-for-tat, i.e., value is zero-sum. No matter the democratic trappings, both systems are popular systems leveraged and controlled by elites. They operate in an ethos not sufficiently filtered through Hellenism and the notions of institutional civitas. Rage and great insecurity only exacerbate the terrible outcomes that their primitive political tools bring about. Both sides confuse strategy with politics. Certainly, Dkon is right that Palestinians should avoid silly violence that does not help their cause. Certainly, Chomsky and most of the commentators are right that the Israelis have never treated the non-Jewish population of Palestine either honestly or fairly. They have, since Miere and Eshkol sought to control and populate the whole of Palestine. Given this ethos and left to themselves, absolute non-violence MIGHT lead to the leveraged Israelis imposing some kind of final solution on the Palestinians and VICE VERSA, were Israelis to be truly non violent. Only outsiders can make any settlement work.
+7 # mjc 2012-12-05 14:31
Are you then saying that what the old man said is not true? I go back long enough to remember IDF bulldozers plowing over a tent-city home for the Palestinian refugees. Have seen the olive orchards burned and know that Gaza was indeed bombed by the IDF, both tanks and airplanes, and many of those places were UN schools where civilians thought they would be safe. Yeah, Chomsky has a right I believe to be irrational as you say, just biased, especially since Israel and Israel's government AND present leader Bibi Netanyahu sees only the rockets and none of the crimes because the crimes were committed by the IDF. None of this is ancient history, either.
+6 # abdullahiedward 2012-12-05 14:58
I also remember seeing Palestinians who were thrown out of where they lived and deposited by the IDF on a snow covered mountain with no cold whether gear and watched in awe as they knelt and prayed - in the snow.
+2 # Scott479 2012-12-05 22:15
You can read across the Arabic news too what American media does not tell you-that Israel calculates calorie intake for residents of blockaded Gaza:

+6 # ragged_soul 2012-12-05 22:50
I am disgusted by Israel. These are certainly not the chosen of any god, but rather a tribe of murderers and thieves driven by bronze age delusions. They show no mercy and forever whine if it is declined for them. What kind of madness allows a man to think it is permissible to commit genocide for a promise in a fairy-tale?
-1 # iconoclast 2012-12-06 03:13
juat the facts noam as joe friday would say ... i find it odd that chomsky says this and straight from the horses mouth gershon baskin below contradicts what he states in the article ???... this is regarding "direct negotiations? ..."The pretext for the assassination was that during these five years Jabari had been creating a Hamas military force, with missiles from Iran. A more credible reason was provided by Israeli peace activist Gershon Baskin, who had been involved in direct negotiations with Jabari for years, including plans for the eventual release of the captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit."GERSHON BASKIN: Well, I don’t want it to be misinterpreted. Ahmed Jabari was not a man of peace. He was not an angel in any way. He was a warrior. He was a fighter. He was the person responsible for the Hamas coup d’état, which was conducted in June of 2007 when they brutally executed some of the Palestinian Authority security personnel. He was a strong military man who refused to speak to Israelis directly. I never had direct contact with him; it was always through third parties, other people in Hamas or other people. He never talked about peace. The truce that we were talking about was not a peace agreement. So it has to be clear: Jabari was a deeply religious Muslim who believed in the cause of Hamas and the ideology of Hamas, which includes the destruction of Israel." http://www.democracynow.org/2012/11/16/israeli_negotiator_hamas_commander_was_assassinated#transcript
+2 # Artemis 2012-12-08 08:54
Baskin's words may be true, but even if we truly wish Jews and Arabs to co-exist in the Middle East, we must understand why some wish the destruction of Israel, or at least the end of Zionism and an undemocratic and murderous Jewish State.
More to the point, why does everyone keep repeating that Hamas wants the destruction of Israel and Hamas does not recognize Israel, as if Israelis have the primary right to exist? Israel has destroyed and is in the process of destroying historic Palestine and the livelihood of its indigenous people, and does NOT recognize Palestine and does NOT accept Palestinian's right to exist on their land. Israelis complain about others wishing to get rid of them while THEY ARE IN FACT GETTING RID OF THE OTHERS.

Talk about hypocrisy.

Savage colonialism. It is there before our eyes and too few wish to recognize it for what it is.
+1 # Mannstein 2013-08-26 15:14
Some lunatics both here in the US and Israel claim Palestinians are not a people. Newt Gingrich comes to mind.
-1 # brux 2013-08-26 20:26
> Some lunatics both here in the US and Israel claim Palestinians are not a people.

Because you call people who think the Palestinians are not a people lunatics does not prove you are right, in fact usually when someone does that they are wrong.

The fact is that Palestinians are no more of a people than Texans. Texas is a state, and Palestine, whatever you want to call that territory only used to belong to the Ottoman Empire. It does not make them a people, not to mention there are other people who lived there.
+2 # Scott479 2012-12-06 05:29
See how Israel has controlled/limi ted even the number of calories allowed Palestinians through the blockade with a simple Bing/Google search.
+1 # Mannstein 2012-12-07 21:08
Deja vue. Sounds like JCS1067, also known as the Morgenthau Plan, applied in Germany by the US occupation 1945-48.
+3 # heraldmage 2012-12-06 08:24
It's time to impose international sanctions on Israel. On all trade & financial transactions until Israel complies with the new peace plan. A plan that throws out old treaty borders and instead equally divides the land between nations. Each sovereign nation will have contiguous borders with equal area and access to sea & resources with East Jerusalem & Tel Aviv their capital. UN Peacekeeper will be stationed on the Israelis side of the border to ensure compliance. In addition Israel must pay reparation & join the IAEA opening its nuclear program to inspection under the special protocol.
Now that the UN General Assembly has finally found its backbone it should impose the sanction. After all if the USA can impose unilateral sanctions certainly the member states of the UN can join together to impose an international one. This could be the 1st step in moving the UNSC to a committee of the General Assembly(UNGC) that recommends action. Making UNGA decisions binding rather than UNSC. The power should be with all the nation of the UN not 10% UNSC. If it was there would be peace today.
+4 # owencrump 2012-12-06 15:34
This word "anti-Semitism" - is there a word like it which people take to mean anti-Catholic? Is there a word like it which people take take to mean anti-Protestant ? Is there a word like it which people take take to mean anti-Islam?
+2 # Artemis 2012-12-07 13:53
Good point. It can't even be seen as a form of racism because the Jews are not a race, but there are many racist views that apply to Jews.
Shlomo Sand recently answered a question from the audience about the term "anti-Semitism" . The term Semite means a member of any of various ancient and modern Semitic-speakin g peoples originating in southwestern Asia, so the way it is used specifically for Jews is completely wrong. He felt we should use the word Judophobia or Judaeophobia and I agree. It is not different to modern-day Islamophobia, except that it has a much longer, multi-faceted history, not being the same in Europe as recently in the Middle East, where I would call it "anti-Zionism". The (Jewish) woman asking the question preferred to call it "Judenhass", which is a really nasty word and if I were Jewish I wouldn't want to use it, firstly because it's German and secondly because it places me firmly in the position of being the victim.
It is amusing and tragic to see the film "Defamation" on youtube, which shows the paranoia associated with anti-semitism and the lengths to which that is taken.
0 # bobvian 2012-12-07 04:55
As so many starrified intellectuals, Chomsky is created and imposed by a part of our community (guess who). He has joined the "religiosity" of "one way thinkers". As Jesus Christ was and still is THE main personality of Christianity (only for Christians) and the Saints were his well known followers, Chomsky is one of the most sanctified followers (saints) of anti-sionism. One can compare him with the world famous french writer Louis Ferdinand Céline who was a Jew hater, a Saint of french fascism. They, anti semites and anti sionists, all had and have something to tell you about the evil behaviour of Jews forgetting that the world has been (and still is) colonised by Christians and Muslims... never by Jews. Israël is only but the the result of a long lasting evil behaviour of Christians and Muslims over tens of centuries... just as what happened with woman. We still live with that obscure male behaviour. But it will change... Jews make part of the decolonisation of the world. Only woman undertood.
+7 # Artemis 2012-12-07 12:09
In answer to # Tje_Chiwara 2012-12-04 10:31

If only YOU knew more about the violence done to the Palestinians since the 1940's.
Just to be facetious, what right does Israel have to exist? The right of might? The Balfour Declaration and the UN partition of Palestine were not, objectively speaking, rightful decisions. They are decisions no other country would have accepted and the Palestinians didn't wish to either! They were forced to and are forced to suffer now as more land is appropriated against their will and the will of almost all nations.
I think it says a lot for the majority of Palestinians that they are prepared to live with their Jewish neighbours, despite the dreadful crimes committed against them up to this day. And we should accept that, even though we hate violence of any kind, Palestinians have a right to resist the terror of Israel. Let us look, however, at Israelis, the majority of whom do not wish to live with their neighbours and have been turned by their own government and education system into racist and arrogant colonial supremacists who believe it is right to bombard an unarmed population with deadly weapons of mass destruction.

If only....Zionism had never been thought up! If only Jews had emigrated to Palestine in smaller numbers so they could integrate! If only America and England had not turned so many Jews away!

If only you would read "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" and even "When and How Was the Land of Israel Invented?”.
+2 # silvanet 2012-12-08 10:30
Chomsky is still one of the best sources for historical facts surrounding the Israel/Palestin ian conflict, although not the only one.

Alan Dershowitz is a great lawyer, but his obvious Israel bias exudes out of every pore in his body. What he did to Norm Finkelstein was unsupportable from any intellectually honest perspective. BTW, Norm was not at Purdue. He was at DePaul. Yes, he has always been a little shrill, but his scholarship is unassailable.

I have found University of Michigan Professor Mark Tessler's "A History of the Israeli-Palesti nian Conflict" an excellent primer on very complex and deeply divisive issues (as is apparent from the discussions here).

When Chomsky decries the media, note that he qualifies "American" sources. Anyone who has read Chomsky for years knows that he often provides references to international media and even to Israeli scholarship. Finkelstein also has done that. Both have expanded the discourse by revealing that there have long been voices within Israel itslef that have opposed the radical policies of their government against Palestinians.

I am a little bit surprised that nobody made any reference to Australian John Pilger. No video journalist has committed such a long time to revealing truth in the face of power. His "Palestine is still the issue," published in 1977 was updated twenty years later. I think it is safe to say that in 2012-13, it is “still” the issue. If you have not seen it, you owe yourselves the experience.
+3 # aljoschu 2012-12-08 12:33
Dear Mr. Chomsky,
many thanks again for speaking out the truth about the Middle East. This is exactly what I have been observing for many years. I see almost all the options on the side of the Israelians - and almost none on the side of the Palaestinians. However, I have learned that rather the whole Middle East will blow up before Israel is willing to acknowledge the existence of the Palaestinians.
In Europe we constantly read about "the never-ending spiral of violence" in that miserable region - however, western journalists fail to recognize that each and every turn of the spiral has a distinct beginning, an that starts in Israel.
Just recently an extremely violent round in that spiral ended. At last, the Palaestinians were granted an observation status in the UN. What is Netanjahu's reaction to this long overdue act of due recognition? He announces the next raid to steal land and to again build Israelian settlements - knowing that with this theft of land it will simply not be possible for the Palaestinians to sustain a self-supportive territory. And he does this against the rage, objections and warnings of the entire sensible world - but he, Netanjahu doesn't care. He even freezes tax payments to the Palaestinians who need it desperately to start building up again what has been destroyed.
Clearly, what I see is that the so-called "spiral of violence in the Middle East" definitely has a recognizable beginning - and that, with each and every turn start in Israel.
+2 # C. Winslow 2012-12-08 16:04
My comment above that either side might go for a "final solution" if the other tried an unmixed strategy of non-violence. My choice of the words "final solution" was unnecessarily incendiary and I apologize. I do not mean to imply that there are many on either side who would envision such a military act; only that when conflict gets out of control and people become enraged and desperate, escalation cannot be stopped before calamity happens. A conflict structure called "Single Shot Prisoners' Dilemma" reveals the raging psychology that could occur; it is similar to the Chicken game. Haroldmage has indicated what a genuinely modern and fair process might lead to in terms of a two-state solution. I have, in a paper given some years ago, outlined a one-state solution, a non-Jewish, non-Islamic (or Arab) state--indeed a modern member of the western state system, international guarantees for non-Arabs and non-Jews, a special council in Jerusalem for cases brought to it re clear, present, and irremediable harm to individuals and communities and let the people live, work, and intermarry until (within one-hundred thousand years) the tribes are integrated. The wise among them can forge a genuine Levantine society, make a lovely Southern California-type scene, and then emigrate to the United States.
0 # artic fox 2013-08-25 18:40
As enlightening as all the prior comments are - regardless of who is saying what, I believe all those who have written in this blog, do well to check out http://www.booktv.org and listen to Erick Stakelberk's lecture on the Moslim Brotherhood and also read his book about that subject: "The Brotherhood: America's Next Great Enemy".
-2 # brux 2013-08-25 19:04
I don't know what side of the fence you are on concerning this issue, but the idea that people can make arguments by saying to their opposition - "you need to read this book", a generalization of the snide "read your history" or "get a clue" or whatever ....

The argument is absurd, and all of them should be deleted, unless they are pointing to a particular point of fact that is in dispute for a given argument.

If people cannot express their opinions and why they think what they thing, then they either should do their best or remain silent, but the implication that they are superior in knowledge or an authority on any of this ... there are no authorities in this subject that would waste there time here.

The bottom line is the countries that are ruled by authoritarian religious hierarchies that derive their ability to use violence from their interpretation of God and religion, and not the will of the people or the best interpretation of the rights of man that can be argued and evolve over time. The religious government in anathema to human rights, and when you look at Islamic governments, that is what you see.

Is this is that causes the Palestinians be stuck, by Islam, fighting Israel to the death, nothing else. It is this that even defines them as they have no legitimate significant difference between them any any other of their neighnoring Arab governments - except they cannot co-exist even in other Arab counties without causing trouble.
0 # artic fox 2013-08-26 10:25
Apart from your own drivel, it would serve YOUR argument to read something that explains from where this hatred is derived. Expressing an opinion based on lies, distortion of facts a la Joseph Goebbels' model is no substitute for reality.
-2 # brux 2013-08-26 12:29
You really have nothing to say here. If you mean to attack my opinion or argument, do it with reason, don't just allude to it being a substitute for reality.
0 # Artemis 2013-08-26 16:19
That is rich coming from you. You write stuff that annoys everybody, is rife with Islamophobia and futile attempts to convince readers that Israel is not what they see it is.
It seems there are so many like you who may have begun excusing Israel, believing that it was necessary for its survival, then began believing your own inventions and now try to persuade others to believe things that are blatantly untrue.
Why bother. Contraproductiv e. Delete.
-2 # brux 2013-08-26 18:45
Except for outliers, people acting outside of the Israel Government, yes, I pretty much totally excuse Israel. They are not driving this war. The nature of Islam, ie. Jihad and suicide bombings fits perfectly with the low tech constant war that is being waged by the radical Islamic governments. I could go on to describe how this is not Islam, but a warped version of it, but it might as well be Islam because when state and religion ally together they are both corrupted, and this is what has happened with pretty much all the Islamic states ... and it gets more true as one approaches Mecca ... ie. the center of the Arab world.

There is not other model or description that fits that facts as well and as simply. The only think your side has is its constant attempts to equate both sides and then say that Israel's weapons are better so their participation is unfair. The problem is that Israel has no choice but to fight, whereas the Palestinians could end this in 20 minutes with a phone call.

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