Excerpt: "The crisis of American capitalism marks the triumph of consumers and investors over workers and citizens. And since most of us occupy all four roles - even though the lion's share of consuming and investing is done by the wealthy - the real crisis centers on the increasing efficiency by which all of us as consumers and investors can get great deals, and our declining capacity to be heard as workers and citizens."
Portrait, Robert Reich, 08/16/09. (photo: Perian Flaherty)
Biggest Risk to the Economy in 2012
31 January 12
reasury Secretary Tim Geithner, speaking at the World Economic Forum in Davos a few days ago, said the "critical risks" facing the American economy this year were a worsening of Europe’s chronic sovereign debt crisis and a rise in tensions with Iran that could stoke global oil prices.
What about jobs and wages here at home?
As the Commerce Department reported Friday, the U.S. economy grew 2.8 percent between October and December - the fastest pace in 18 months and the first time growth exceeded 2 percent all year. Many bigger American companies have been reporting strong profits in recent months. GE and Lockheed Martin closed the year with record order backlogs.
Yet the percent of working-age Americans in jobs isn’t much different than what it was three years ago. Yes, America now produces more than it did when the recession began. But it does so with 6 million fewer workers.
Average after-tax incomes adjusted for inflation are moving up a bit. (They increased at an annual rate of .8 percent in the last three months of 2011 after falling 1.9 percent in prior three-month period. For all of 2011, incomes fell .1 percent.)
But beware averages. Shaquille O’Neal and I have an average height of six feet. Exclude Mitt Romney’s $20 million last year — along with everyone else securely in the top 1 percent — and the incomes of most Americans are continuing to slip.
Consumer spending picked up slightly in the fourth quarter mainly because consumers drew down their savings. Obviously, this can’t last.
Meanwhile, government is spending less on schools, roads, bridges, parks, defense, and social services. Government spending at all levels dropped at an annual rate of 4.6 percent in the last quarter - and that’s likely to continue.
Some economists worry this drop is a drag on the economy. But it also means fewer public goods available to all Americans regardless of income.
Congress still hasn’t decided whether to renew the temporary payroll tax cut and extend unemployment benefits past February. If it doesn’t, expect another 1 percent slice off GDP growth this year.
Tim Geithner is surely correct that the European debt crisis and Iran pose risks to the American economy in 2012. But they aren’t the biggest risk. The biggest risk is right here at home - that most Americans will continue to languish.
All of which raises a basic question: Who or what is the economy for? Surely not just for a few at the top, and not just big corporations and their CEOs. Nor can the success of the economy be measured by how fast the GDP is growing, or how high the Dow Jones Industrial Average is rising, or whether average incomes are turning upward.
The crisis of American capitalism marks the triumph of consumers and investors over workers and citizens. And since most of us occupy all four roles - even though the lion’s share of consuming and investing is done by the wealthy - the real crisis centers on the increasing efficiency by which all of us as consumers and investors can get great deals, and our declining capacity to be heard as workers and citizens.
Modern technologies allow us to shop in real time, often worldwide, for the lowest prices, highest quality, and best returns. Through the Internet and advanced software we can now get relevant information instantaneously, compare deals, and move our money at the speed of electronic impulses. We can buy goods over the Internet that are delivered right to our homes. Never before in history have consumers and investors been so empowered.
Yet these great deals increasingly come at the expense of our own and our compatriots’ jobs and wages, and widening inequality. The goods we want or the returns we seek can often be produced more efficiently elsewhere around the world by companies offering lower pay, fewer benefits, and inferior working conditions.
They also come at the expense of our Main Streets - the hubs of our communities - when we get the great deals through the Internet or at big-box retailers that scan the world for great deals on our behalf.
Some great deals have devastating environmental consequences. Technology allows us to efficiently buy low-priced items from poor nations with scant environmental standards, sometimes made in factories that spill toxic chemicals into water supplies or pollutants into the air. We shop for great deals in cars that spew carbon into the air and for airline tickets in jet planes that do even worse.
Other great deals offend common decency. We may get a great price or high return because a producer has cut costs by hiring children in South Asia or Africa who work twelve hours a day, seven days a week. Or by subjecting people to death-defying working conditions.
As workers or as citizens most of us would not intentionally choose these outcomes but as seekers after great deals we are indirectly responsible for them. Companies know that if they fail to offer us the best deals we will take our money elsewhere - which we can do with ever-greater speed and efficiency.
The best means of balancing the demands of consumers and investors against those of workers and citizens has been through democratic institutions that shape and constrain markets.
Laws and rules offer some protection for jobs and wages, communities, and the environment. Although such rules are likely to be costly to us as consumers and investors because they stand in the way of the very best deals, they are intended to approximate what we as members of a society are willing to sacrifice for these other values.
But technologies for getting great deals are outpacing the capacities of democratic institutions to counterbalance them. For one thing, national rules intended to protect workers, communities, and the environment typically extend only to a nation’s borders. Yet technologies for getting great deals enable buyers and investors to transcend borders with increasing ease, at the same time making it harder for nations to monitor or regulate such transactions.
For another, goals other than the best deals are less easily achieved within the confines of a single nation. The most obvious example is the environment, whose fragility is worldwide. In addition, corporations now routinely threaten to move jobs and businesses away from places that impose higher costs on them - and therefore, indirectly, on their consumers and investors - to more "business friendly" jurisdictions. The Internet and software have made companies sufficiently nimble to render such threats credible.
But the biggest problem is that corporate money is undermining democratic institutions in the name of better deals for consumers and investors. Campaign contributions, fleets of well-paid corporate lobbyists, and corporate-financed PR campaigns about public issues are overwhelming the capacities of Congress, state legislatures, regulatory agencies, and the courts to reflect the values of workers and citizens.
As a result, consumers and investors are doing increasingly well but job insecurity is on the rise, inequality is widening, communities are becoming less stable, and climate change is worsening. None of this is sustainable over the long term.
Blame global finance and worldwide corporations all you want. But save some blame for the insatiable consumers and investors inhabiting almost every one of us, who are entirely complicit. And blame our inability as workers and citizens to reclaim our democracy.
Robert Reich is Chancellor's Professor of Public Policy at the University of California at Berkeley. He has served in three national administrations, most recently as secretary of labor under President Bill Clinton. He has written thirteen books, including "The Work of Nations," "Locked in the Cabinet," "Supercapitalism" and his latest book, "AFTERSHOCK: The Next Economy and America's Future." His 'Marketplace' commentaries can be found on publicradio.com and iTunes.
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Whatever's left over is what these companies get for profit. That's it.
You say wall street doesn't need the consumer anymore? Let's stop consumer spending & see what happens? And don't start crying socialism either. If you can't do right by the people you don't get a seat at the table.
By law corporate officers' primary responsibility is to the investors. If you have part of *your* wages invested, then you are an investor. I didn't have any investments when I was young, but now I've been working for a wage now for 45 years, my kids are grown up, and so now I'm hoping my little retirement account doesn't completely disappear. I want to spend a little on myself, and I in this day and age, I have to have my kids' back too. I'm their backstop. So I want my investments, such as they are, to do well.
I hate what's going on because it's threatening my kids' future. But I'm not eager to see a war brought on by ideologues who can't deal with the complexity of truth.
The economy would tank worse than it already is if everybody figured this out at the same time. Bed Bath and Beyond would be a little cart on the sidewalk selling bath towels.
"Insatiability" belongs to the 99% AND political candidates & government leaders who are spending billions of dollars for pseudo-talking- points, extravagant travel & appertures to garner votes from people who are unemployed, worried about losing their jobs, homes, health care, & becoming impoverished, if they're not already.
Reich has a lot of "chutzpah" to blame "insatiability" on middle class workers & consumers!
The "passive economic slavery" & limited choices for the masses." Bev mentions is the MO for the middle class. You do not hear any of the candidates using it as a talking point.
Is this not in large part because of the productivity gains that technology has provided business? If that is the case, what is the likelihood that companies will hire any of the millions of unemployed workers who were displaed by the Great Recession. We need to create new businesses based on new markets that business will create in the future. Otherwise the drop in government spending, coupled with the productivity of American workers will result in an even worse situation. Government's proper role could be to identify opportunities for workers and new markets for businesses here and abroad.
That all depends on your political affiliations. If you think it's for the majority of working Americans you disagree with those who have the power to do anything about it.
EXHIBIT A
You become type-cast very quickly. If I accept a fast food job after losing my engineering position, I lose everything. I'm not going to do that just because somebody like you thinks I should.
Take away unemployment benefits, and watch your own home value plummet, or your own rent skyrocket.
One of the posters, BEV spoke about the "limbic system" and {adrenal gland} which causes people to go on automatic pilot and REACT in a "fight or flight" mode ("fear or denial") rather than to respond mindfully with insight. It is my intention to respond mindfully in any setting at all times. I hope this is helpful, Billy Bob!
or approaching a subject. Conservatives like to call "Liberals" "Elite" meaning "Intellectuals". Intellectuals worthy of being called that are broad-minded, look at both sides of an argument or issue and never write someone off or negate their ideas without reflection. Laughing at people and bullying them is antithetical to the intellectual & to common decency.
But it's also something far worse: the dark side of the Internet, which by its globalization of the Wal-Mart syndrome furthers the transformation of Earth: first into a slave planet, eventually into a planet of death, inhabitable only by cockroaches and/or alien species of cockroach ancestry.
All of which is another example of how capitalism -- infinite greed as maximum virtue -- is the ultimate doomsday virus, even for the One Percent, who like all parasites eventually destroy their host.
Is there a greater example of Absolute Evil anywhere in human history?
But that total -- 50 million murdered by Hitler -- is nothing compared to the death toll inflicted by capitalism: industrial accidents, vehicular accidents, wars between capitalist factions (including both world wars), cancer and other diseases caused by capitalist toxins, the deaths of the species with which we share this planet and above all else the death of Planet Earth itself.
Not ten Hitlers -- not even ten thousand Hitlers working triple shifts 24/7/365 -- could equal the past, present and future damage inflicted by the capitalists. The doomsday function of capitalism has no precedent in human history.
Absolute evil is generally used in a singular sense rathar than diffusely and pluralistic. You are describing the evils of Capitalism in a much larger and pluralistic sense with all the diverse categories leading to more diverse sub-categoriese. You should be writing about
"The doomsday function of capitalism.." using a hierarchal graph to demonstrate your exposition.
However, "Absolute Evil" describes Hitler
singularly and once we have established that the meglomania, psychosis,paran oia, sadism and grandiosiy that describes Adolf Hitler was and is a depiction of "Absolute Evil"; we do not need ten or ten thousand Hitlers to make it more applicable. It would be redundant.
Another example, Early US Plantation workers all were slaves and were not paid.
Camps, such as Auschwitz. The Holocaust is the most inhumane tragedy in history.
Thanks for your comment, John. You're a phenomenal historian.
A little more history... Nelson Rockefeller's protg, Henry Kissinger began his early service to the "old money global elite" by recruiting Nazi scientists and "SS" officials to America through a secret Counter-Intelligence Corps (CIC) project that evolved into the Central Intelligence Agency's (CIA) infamous "Project Paperclip." Throughout World War II, the Rockefellers partnered with German industrialists as arranged by their lawyers and business managers-John Foster and Allen Dulles (closely associated with Skull and Bones alumin). These men clearly directed American intelligence agencies to serve the financial interests of the Rockefeller's Standard Oil Company that partnered with Germany's leading industrial organization-I.G. Farben. At the close of WWII, the I.G. Farben building in Frankfort, protected from allied bombings from the highest levels of military command, became CIA headquarters. Rockefeller then dispatched another lawyer and banking official, John J. McCloy, (Skull and Bones), to disperse their German assets to form the modern day petrochemical/pharmaceutical combine known as the Bayer corporation (maker of CIPRO for anthrax), There is so much more that you will find hard to swallow!
So, by the numbers:
1. Inflation is always with us.
2.Since 1970 production & profits have increased but that largess wasn't shared with labor.
3. Real wages remain flat for 40 years.
4. Workers feel the squeeze & cannot "buy what they make".
5. Intense advertising increases "desire" for US goods.
6. To cut costs & consumer prices, workers are fired & production is moved overseas.
7. Remaining workers can again buy the highly advertised, lower cost goods.
8. Walmart grows & retail stores close - more unemployment.
9. Other manufacturers "save money" by shutting down & moving jobs offshore.
10. Fewer US workers make fewer dollars & WalMart explodes!
11. Reagan & Bush tax cuts/breaks finance waves of businesses moving offshore.
12. Still more workers are un-or-under employed.
13. People live on credit cards & cut into their home equity.
14. Etc, etc .
15, You know the rest - you saw it happen. The whole economy turned to s***!
There's much, much more but space precludes!
Conclusion: Don't you DARE try to blame American workers for this greed-induced debacle!
It doesn't make you a bad guy if you buy the $16 product. It's probably cheaper because the manufacturer's costs are lower. How many times have you made such decisions without asking questions? Unless you really are better than everybody else, probably lots of times.
The 1% spends 90% of their time blaming Unions for the cost of goods and inflation in the USA. Their mantra is: "WE had to move because the Unions were bleeding us dry." Well, if that is the case why is it that Germany - with strong Unions and the highest wages amongst the First World countries - is economically stable, has universal single payer health care, an increasing standard of living . . . and still manages to maintains a favorable balance of trade - ie., Germany exports more than she imports.
Workers gifted with exceptional vision and manual dexterity do well in complex tasks of production. Outsourcing has hurt them. Same with many knowledge workers--technicians, technical support. It used to be that if you could sell, you would eat. People who could sell were the life blood of business. Gifted salespersons are now competing with Internet.
You don't have to be in the 1% to have skin in this game, so it's not as simple as let's do away with all of it and the hell with profit. Without productive and profitable business, poverty and hunger would explode into unimaginable magnitude.
I don't know the answer, but it does seem that continued pressure by non-violent direct action, protest, and the kind skillful manipulation of media we have seen by the Occupy movement has to be part of the mix.
Underneath all of what's going on is still a population of basically decent human beings. People will need to continue following their self-interest, but they must also resist the unnecessary excesses we are seeing in Wall Street and Congress. It doesn't have to be this bad.
Has MidwsetTom tried paying for ANYHING at minimum wage????
why don't you pose your question to TOM rather than the other Posters. It would be more respectful and show initiative.
Those jobs are and always have been mostly itinerant-manned. Unfortunately, the workers filing them comprise no part of the "solid US middle class". They're honorable & need filling, but they never were and, God willing, never will be intended as permanent resting spots for engineers, bankers, machinists & other skilled workers who have been knocked out of work by downsizing and jobs migrating overseas.
A friend of mine - an experienced manufacturing engineer - did not take unemployment benefits. Instead he took a job pumping gas in order to bridge the gap between jobs. I applauded his subjugating his ego, but it's clear that he is unique.
Or are you negating me for giving BB the credit he deserves for his initiative, & using his brain, & doing what needed to be done; showing up everyday, putting in the time, doing unpleasant work untll he was able to move on to a job he wanted.
As for the guy who screwed you? That's between him and his conscience, if he has one. In any event, he's history. Think positive. Get on with your life.
"Why are there jobs available and Unemployment at near record levels?" What I would like to know is why so many Posters give no thought or consideration to opinions and ideas that do not fit into a black and white, yes or no way of
generalizing which is stifling to the innovation and creativity which comes from thinking out side the box. It's called being "Open Minded"!
There are probably people quitting regularly from these latter day treadmills and workhouses after being squeezed dry and paid next to nothing. Add Walmart to the list.
American companies are not financially compelled to make sure Americans have enough money to buy their stuff. Apple's designs are wonderful; their manufacturing practices are awful. Is Apple an example of success to be honored and held high? If we define success as we have in the past,looking out 25-30 years, we will likely find more technologies and cheaper labor doing more work done by American workers. Is there no such thing as duty to country and its people, or has business become completely unhinged from country (except, of course, when it comes to subsidies / corporate welfare?)?
America and her people (except for the 1%) have been sold down the river by the unholy alliance of money and politics and unless we break those bonds, we're screwed.
Bob Reich - though I admire and agree with you and much of your writing, I believe it was Bill Clinton that helped ignite this mess by signing Glass-Steigal and give the first pen to Sen. Phil Graham, a real dog. Certainly, this theft of our treasury and values began with Reagan; Bill Clinton fueled the fire. Why?
Could it be that, instead of a "progressive" trying to get the Democratic Party back on track, you're nothing but a troll who'll use any words you can think of to further the conservative agenda, even if it means temporarily mouthing liberal words against a President who's too conservative to represent the Democratic Party?
I am extremely disappointed in Obama & have been a liberal political activist most of my adult life. I grew up in GR MICH. President Ford was a friend of our family & a very good person & I voted for him but have supported & worked for Democratic candidates otherwise. I was an avid Viet Nam Protester, Feminist & active in Civil Rights in the 60's. I am upset about Obama signing the NDD Detention Detainment bill & with his political game playing with the XL Pipeline. WHY has he not closed Guantanamo? He's too conservative, a weak leader & poor negotiator & he doesn't have a clue about what to do about the economy & little concern about SS, medicare, medicaid, education, social services. Who can believe his rhetoric anymore?
Republican Party fascism, religiosity rhetoric, anti-women tea party talk is so regressive, devoid of compassion & common sense; it's dangerous. I want Hillary Clinton(P), Bernie Saunders (VP) What about you?
Your refusal to allow for the fact that you haven't walked a mile in other people's shoes and your unwillingness to accept that some people NEED financial help is an example of YOUR conservatism - NOT OBAMA'S.
I see now that you went to college in the '60s. No wonder you paid for it with a scholastic scholarship. Have you actually looked into the way college has been paid for since the late '80s? I don't think you have.
I went to a "cheap" public college for my undergrad and didn't know ANYONE who didn't get some kind of financial help from their parents - NO ONE AT ALL.
I partially paid for it by working 72 hours a week at a meat packing plant in the summers. For this, I earned $7.00 an hour, until they CLOSED THE FACTORY. This was in the late '80s. I had an older brother who worked for the same factory in 1970. He made over $14.00 an hour.
I ended up thousands of dollars in debt, once I was old enough to claim the independance I already had and was capable of qualifying for a high interest loan.
My brother NEVER worked during the school year because his summers paid for the whole thing. With the extra cash he had LEFT OVER he travelled and bought a stereo.
SPARE US THE LECTURES ABOUT "HARD WORK AND DETERMINATION".
candidates. The latest prediction is that unemployment numbers are expected to rise around the time of the election.
Anti- semitic is one thing. Anti-Israeli foreign policy is another. Progressives aren't anti-semitic. But most progressives are against Israeli foreign policy.
Life up here in the 1% ozone-level is no bed of roses! You'd know that if you ever tried it!
(Not)
Does this make you a better person or make conservatives look superior to liberals?
I'm going to guess there wasn't a strong English requirement where you got your grad degrees.
BTW, I am a professional writer.
If you can't afford food how would you pay for insurance?
If you're interested in making a self-help motivational video, might I suggest you film it in a neighborhood with a high population of homeless people?
By the way, your children don't have the "right" to anything? SERIOUSLY? You realize I'm not talking about adult children here, right? I'm talking about CHILDREN. If CHILDREN don't have the "right" to eat, in your opinion, might I suggest you have absolutely no morals whatsoever.
Perhaps your problem is with the MAMMALIAN CLASS. You see, as mammals, one of our adaptive traits is that we care for our young. Maybe you'd feel more at home in a more cold-blooded class. Do you ever get the urge to EAT your children?
"I would never become homeless because I do not live lavishly and exceed what is affordable and I save for bad times"
You can read it for yourself. It's not that hard.
"Do you ever get the urge to EAT your children?" You have a great sense of humor! again I can't stop laughing....
It is a fact that in the U.S. women still get paid less than men. Racism is alive and well despite the fact we have a "black" president. In some communities blacks are facing UE rates of more than 20%. If you are Latino and undocumented you are exploited, underpaid, harassed and hated. If you are Muslim you are suspect, bullied, maligned and considered a terrorist sympathizer. If you are over 60 and unemployed you are too old and nobody wants to hire you. This is the state of our country classist, racist, xenophobic, ageist, sexist.
I am glad for you but it is not as easy as you paint it for many groups of people.
Who ever said "Blacks...aren't supposed to be able to swim?" That's a racist remark! You also say, "If you are great, no one cares about your ethnicity or race". Are you saying a person has to be "great" to be exempt from racial & ethnic prejudice? I hope not because most of us are not "great"; we're just ordinary people who deserve the same respect as anyone else, no matter what race, religion, ethnicity, gender or sexual preference.
It is easy when the economy is good, but it hasn't been for several years. So please explain how hard work pays off in this atmosphere...if you can? Also why unemployment should not be available for employees displaced by store closings... If you can? If you believe we have opportunity today in America why did your children choose the military? Certainly it was not to protect American since we are the aggressor, but rather because they lacked opportunity!... Think more and complain less...
rarely share. First, in regard to your first question. Been there, done that but without the "embarrassment" in asking for help because as I said before I have worked 2-3 jobs at a time when needed and my children always had enough to eat. I told you I like to look at both sides of a question or situation. I would never miss the opportunity to help a human being in need in any way I could because I believe it is a blessing for the giver more than it is for the recipient. I travel around the country giving Seminars & meet many interesting, inspiring people but the people I find most memorable are those making minimum wages at airports, hotels, driving cabs & shuttles,or working at Avis. They all have a story & a need & they are drawn to me bcause in the flash of a moment, I'm aware of their needs. It isn't always money but that nearly always plays a part. It may be advise or encouragment in regard to a job, college, family matters, medical issues. Do not say I belittle people because I speak forthright and encourage Posters to be more open minded & to stop denigrating people with name-calling & obscenities. It's so valueless & immature.
how did you get to work? You worked in a rich neighborhood, but yet you were poor. How many trains did you have to take to get there? How much did it cost you to take a cab? How early did you have to get up in the morning to walk all those miles from your poor neighborhood, just so you could work for nearly nothing as a caddy? What if you had no wife to help look after your kids while you were doing this? Did you ever notice that caddying doesn't pay as well as other jobs you could have had at the same time?
I think you revealed more about your past than you wanted to.
Are you envious of him for achieving or for the strength if character it took to do it on his own.
wanted to.
Your past did not inform you of the past and PRESENT of people who would have killed just to have the opportunities you had.
Their pasts and PRESENTS are ALSO fact, no matter how you twist them. Who are you to judge other people who literally CAN NOT afford to feed their kids without help, MUCH LESS SOMEHOW go to college?
When a people undergo a paradigm shift from being citizens to consumers, their worth diminishes with their ability to consume. Ain't rocket science.
By the way, I've NEVER heard of an academic scholarship paying room and board. If you worked full time to pay for those things, which you WOULD HAVE TO DO, in most areas, how did you manage to do justice to your degree?
I can tell you that I ALSO went to school on an academic scholarship, but because my parents couldn't afford my bills I had to take out a loan to deal with everything. In the '80s (under daddy bush) I was not able to get that loan because, GET THIS - I DIDN'T MAKE ENOUGH TO PROVE I WAS INDEPENDANT. Afterall, I only worked 30 hours a week while going to school full time. After a year of that, and being told I couldn't get a student loan (I'd save up enough to pay one year of room and board), I had to take a few years off to work full time somewhere else where I could make more than $3.33 an hour, just so I could come back and continue. I lived in neighborhoods with people who were struggling to feed their children, and like "the robbed eagle" I walked to and from work.
CONT.
Remember this quote from Citizen Kane?:
"There's no trick to having a lot of money if all you want out of life is a lot of money"
We ALL work hard for our money, including people who don't make much, or people who stay at home with children as their spouse rakes in the bucks.
The differences in income are not related to how hard we work. They're more related to a complex series of factors INCLUDING the opportunities and talents we've been afforded. These are nothing to brag about. They're largely a matter of luck.
I still got my doctorate. Yay for me! Luckily, I had been raised in a neighborhood where it was safe to attend school and I was given a QUALITY public education. Luckily for me, my PARENTS could make ends meet - even if they couldn't help me pay for college.
EMPATHY ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE EITHER. IT'S JUST HUMAN.
"Aint rocket science?" Is this
what you learned while under-
going your "paradigm shift?"
Stop preaching. If you're so successful and the government shouldn't help people who need it, GET A FOURTH JOB and START HELPING OTHERS.
In fact, maybe if there was more funding for public school education - especially PRE-K and publicly funded daycare more people would be gladly taking those below living wage positions at McDonalds.
Freedom of speech is available to the owners and their patsies like RE, except on the alternative media. Remember, those who shout loudest about freedom, Liberty and openness are the first to take it away from you.
Again. put up or git lost!
Does this make you a better person or make Democrats look superior to the Republicans?
Not it doesn't. I just get tired of reactionaries busting into a mostly leftist blog when access to the other direction is closed. Fact-based debate with open minds is always welcome but why should it be one-way? I'll continue to challenge those I find abusive and intrustive, making assumptions (Like "Get off the couch---") without knowing the person(s) it is aimed at, in turn abuse in it's most presumptuous form. And I'm NOT a Democrat!
FYI, I've been self-employed most of my life and lived a wonderful, adventurous and pushing-the-envelope life all over the world and many parts of the US but regret that this country, which used to be a great place to live and work if you had ideas, vision and a bit of moxie, has deteriorated into a mean-spirited corporate state with little time for the small business or those who have suffered hardship. I'm admittedly a bit of a combative ol' ex-rugby player as is my nature but hardly abusive. Just wishing for enlightening discussion, not "This is the way it is -period!" I mostly try to say or infer "In my opinion", base it on verifiable fact and put it out there -often with a hint o' humor-, a characteristic sadly lacking from those on the right :look at your own posts from this perspective and think on't. 'Nuff said.
I'm sorry to break it to you, but unless there are threats of physical violence, "bullying" and "intimidation" are impossible on these threads. "The robbed eagle" feels the need to preach his views to us. We have every right to call him out on anything we perceive as nonsense. If you agree with him, fine. But, this isn't a football game. This is politics. People's lives are affected, and pretending we can unilaterally behave as if we are "above the fray" against an opponent (yes, he's an opponent) who cares nothing for us, and belongs to a political faction that would gladly use violence to get it's way, is self-defeating.
You're not a "referee". You're a participant in a serious debate. Calling "foul" every time someone challenges you or your alies is disengenuous and transparent.
Why is it always the right, that's lecturing the rest of us to "tone it down". And by the way, I'm sorry you don't think you're a right-winger. On other threads, and about other subjects, you may not be. But, on this thread, your opinions are firmly on the right end of the spectrum.
I know you better now and realize that you're a straight shooter. I thought you had a hidden agenda. You don't. We just disagree occassionally.
The strength of the left-wing, whenever any strength is present, is in our ability to disagree with one another.
I suspect we'll continue to disagree from time to time. There are other left-wing posters I disagree with occassionally as well. We aren't as homogenous as the right. That's a good thing.
You're right about freedom not being free. That why so many Americans can't afford it.
I knew you were either police, military, CIA or FBI. You fail to see that the defense budget of the U.S. is more than all other industrial nations combined. The way things are going right now it appears that all of the masses of unemployed will have to join since that's where all the money has gone.
You criticize the poor or people who are getting a meager handout. Meanwhile you are part of a billion dollar industry who kills and destroys people all over the world. If I were starving and homeless I would never ever join that sociopathic killing machine. I would never sell my soul.
Don't give me that BS about the military fighting for our freedom. Those kids joining may not have any other option and they are being used as cannon fodder to fight the wars of the wealthy elites who run the world like the bankers at the FEDERAL RESERVE!
I pity you for you have bought the lie the government has sold you. They sure have done a PSY OPS on you and all of those other soldiers who believe they are fighting for freedom.
Do you know what you are fighting for? you are not fighting for my freedom you are fighting for oil, copper, cobalt, iron, diamonds, gold, silver,and for strategic geopolitical positioning by the US, UK, France, Germany, Israel. That is what you are fighting for. Have a fine and pleasant day sir!
You still haven't answered my question about where I can go to air my progressive views on a right-wing site or channel. I welcome opposing views with those who are open to debate like some moderate republicans I regularly talk with but yours is as tight-closed as a duck's arse (and that's watertight!).
Your kids I'm afraid, are part of the biggest destructive force on the planet in the name of "freedom" for corporate state to agitate and plunder other nations, which I have opposed all my life including taking to the streets and being jailed for it in several countries - and am proud of it! I hope they find a more worthwhile future than being part of a killing machine: go to some Vets for Peace meetings and air your B.S. -I dare you!
You have no business belittling his children or their service in the Navy. You said you do NOT like belittling people. This is very mean!
I find reiverpacific's comments to be RIGHT ON TARGET and exactly what the conversation needs. If you think his comments are abusive, I'd like to see you make a few anti-military comments in front of a recruiting station, or at a kindergarden where the military is already recruiting.
Whether you want to suddenly play the "academic moderator" or not, you have an agenda just like everyone else. Playing the "above the fray" game only works if you don't engage in the abuse yourself.
Simply saying, "YOU ARE PATHETIC" to other comments, puts you down here in the mud with the rest of us. If you want to selectively preach that some of us need to turn the other cheek, let's see you lead by example.
Oh my, slap my wrists, this is gettin' to be fun! In a former post, I told mr E. that I was glad his kids had made it back safe from the Gulf and that I really admired the Navy Seals just for their toughness and the course they have to go through just to qualify. Also invited RE to attend a Veterans for Peace Meeting and put out some of the stuff he spatters around here. I learn a lot from them. Now how 'bout that? So what's abusive about that?
And he still hasn't answered my question about access to the right-wing media; nor has anybody else.
Now you stop that, you naughty boy! (heh-heh).
"Reiverpacific" if you don't mind!
I need to hear your excuse how? By invading Iraq, Afghanistan, our Intervention in Panamanian Revolution (1903)- The Banana Wars (1909-1933)-U.S. Occupation of Vera Cruz (1914)-Pershing's Raid into Mexico (1916-1917)-Allied Intervention in Russian Civil War (1919-1921)-Korean War (1950-1953)-Intervention in Lebanon (1958)- Second Indochina War (1956-1975)- Dominican Intervention (1965-1966?)- Lebanese Intervention (1982-1984)- Grenada Invasion (1983)- First Persian Gulf War (1980-1988)-Panama Invasion (1989)- Second Persian Gulf War - Somalia Intervention (1992-1993)- Occupation of Haiti (1994-Present)- Bosnian War (1995)-Kosovo War (1999)- Libyan War (2011)- (there's More) We were the invader and aggressor in all these wars... So tell me robert how is the US Military protecting us by invading countries all over the world? I want to hear your response!
Thank you for speaking the truth right in the face of the manipulations and flag waving propaganda.
Today they start top down..first: profit margin, 30%?, 40%? then work their way down, and whatever is left over is spent on employees and, if it's not much, then it's layoff or minimum wage time.
I remember Bill Bradley speaking years ago and saying that if the wealthy don't take care of their workers in the best of times, and the worst of times, when the good times return there may be no one to employ.
I think that he's referring to the ever-increasing blurring of the dumb-down vs fact in what remains of the public education system, itself under threat and seemingly putting out falsehood as to what is solid theorem/practice and the current manipulated reality for the corporate state.
And I concur absolutely if this is the case.
If I ever COULD gain access to any right-wing site and consistently posted opposing views -with or without back up and verifiable reference -like R.E and "dorianb@fuse.net" do all the time, I'd have been the recipient of at the best violent abuse, threats and digital screaming and at worst, death threats from the usual cowards who lurk in the shadows with their telescopic sights aimed at those who truly crave freedom and won't back down.
I've actually experienced this in several countries controlled (formerly) by the CIA/Military Death machine when I stepped out of line.
But I'm just a little member of the submerged whatever %!
Think about it.
I'm done with this post now -movin' on.
I also would love to see a Right Wing site that allows alternate points of view. That doesn't vet each person that wants to be eligible to post.
Let me know when you find one.
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