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Rather writes: "Stunned disbelief. Anxiety. A mounting sense of betrayal. These are the smoke signals rising from those in and around the United States intelligence community over President-elect Donald Trump's dismissal of the evidence of Russian hacking in the presidential election."

Dan Rather. (photo: WNYC)
Dan Rather. (photo: WNYC)


Trump's Betrayal of the US Intelligence Community

By Dan Rather, Dan Rather's Facebook Page

05 January 17

 

tunned disbelief. Anxiety. A mounting sense of betrayal. These are the smoke signals rising from those in and around the United States intelligence community over President-elect Donald Trump's dismissal of the evidence of Russian hacking in the presidential election.

And now, in a series of tweets, Mr. Trump has taken the side of Wikileaks founder Julian Assange over the collective conclusion of those tasked with our national security. Assange, in an interview with Fox News' Sean Hannity (who at this point must be considered a full-fledged propagandist and abetter) said he didn't get the information from Russia. Well if he says so... Let's just use that same standard for all of our adversaries. Nothing to see here. Why waste all these billions of dollars on intelligence gathering?

When it comes to our intelligence services, there must be many caveats. This work is more art than pure science, often picking out clues from a lot of noise. Our intelligence has been wrong in the past. The CIA and other organizations have overstepped their bounds at times, and their findings have been politicized (Iraq). Furthermore there is often a certain amount of dissent about many findings. I also must add that I have long felt we can benefit from taking a long, hard, and critical look at our intelligence apparatus, its structure, bureaucratic interferences, and fiefdoms. But in this case, those concerns are secondary as the agencies seem to be speaking largely in unison with the urgency of real evidence.

I have found the men and women who do these intelligence jobs to be serious about their line of work. Deadly serious. After all, when they are wrong people can and often do die. What do the vast network of people risking their lives undercover and in dangerous locals, men and women whose names we will never know, think of Mr. Trump's cavalier dismissal of their work? What about the thousands more at headquarters using their immense analytical skills in the service of country instead of, say, making millions on Wall Street? We need a robust intelligence force now more than ever. This is a matter of national security. It affects all Americans, and people around the world. Hopefully patriots within Mr. Trump's own party and in his inner circle will step up and tell the incoming president how dangerous this rhetoric is.

Heaven forbid we suffer another horrible attack. Heaven forbid our intelligence community was hollowed out, wasn't listened to or respected. These are the stakes.

e-max.it: your social media marketing partner
 

Comments   

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+1 # mashiguo 2017-01-05 13:09
If Trump succeeds in straitening the intelligence agencies and eviscrating the deep state he will be one of the greatest presidents of the past century.

Anyone who supports the intelligence agencies after overthrowing governments around the world, lying about WMDs, lying about so called Russian Hacking, and an endless list of other abuses is a damn fool.

As far as I am concerned, the creation of Al Qaeda and Isis by our own deep state manipulations means that everything those groups are accused of doing is just a false flag operation aimed at frightening US into a quivering knot.

To hell with them, and to hell with their supporters.

They haven't done us any good up till now, and they won't in the future.
 
 
+8 # dickbd 2017-01-05 14:37
You beat me to it. I couldn't have said it better!
 
 
0 # gaga1996 2017-01-05 15:41
Me neither! You are spot on. Mr. Rather, get over yourself. You can't see the forest for the trees.
 
 
+3 # Radscal 2017-01-05 19:03
Rather has been a shill for Deep State ever since he viewed the original Zapruder film on Sunday, Nov. 24, 1963, and then said nothing when the official one was significantly different.
 
 
+97 # RaW 2017-01-05 14:38
Here's a piece of intelligence that didn't do us any good:
"Bin Laden determined to strike in US"
Know why? Because a sitting president ignored it.
 
 
-8 # mashiguo 2017-01-05 14:55
... or because the CIA trained bin laden
 
 
-25 # Caliban 2017-01-05 16:20
A comment from Fantasy Island -- always good for a chuckle. According to Peter Bergen, whose expertise in the area I respect:

"The story about bin Laden and the CIA—that the CIA funded bin Laden or trained bin Laden—is simply a folk myth."
 
 
+3 # mashiguo 2017-01-05 16:32
Operation Cyclone.
 
 
-1 # Caliban 2017-01-07 03:11
There appears to be no evidence that bin Laden received any aid from Operation Cyclone.
 
 
+3 # Radscal 2017-01-07 23:03
bin Laden was rich. He personally probably didn't get paid by CIA.

But that his "Mujahideen Brothers" received weapons and surveillance information is a matter of public record.

Here's a typical piece from after our "success" against the USSR:

https://i.imgur.com/CRaBPOx.jpg
 
 
+34 # Radscal 2017-01-05 19:11
Oh good heavens. That first Carter and then Reagan supported the Mujahideen generally, and bin Laden specifically was well known at the time.

http://fair.org/extra/forgotten-coverage-of-afghan-freedom-fighters/

The NY Times even featured a photo of bin Laden in the 1980s with the caption that he was one of the leaders of our "freedom fighters."

Orwell's vision of forgotten history is firmly established in this putrid land.
 
 
+20 # jackdresser 2017-01-05 21:59
Of course the CIA trained bin Laden with the mujahideen in Afghanistan to defeat Russia, that's common knowledge.
 
 
+4 # mashiguo 2017-01-06 00:42
apparently for the shill-bots.
 
 
0 # jimbeama 2017-01-06 21:53
as ordered by the president.
 
 
+1 # Radscal 2017-01-07 22:57
By two Presidents. Carter started the program of setting terrorists loose in Afghanistan, (with the specific goal convincing the Soviet Union to send troops in, which they did after about 6 months of terrorism), and then Reagan picked up the baton and ran it to the finish line.
 
 
-3 # Caliban 2017-01-07 03:13
No, # jackdresser, but that assumption does seem to be a common error.
 
 
+1 # treerapper 2017-01-06 04:10
or because it wasn't bin laden at all.
 
 
+9 # mighead 2017-01-05 21:36
Most of us know by now that 9/11 was an inside job...by our very own CIA created Al-Qaeda!!! Just like the CIA created our Qaeda 'off-shoot': ISIS.

Of course, that very same CIA group that is now saying that Russia sabotaged our elections...yea h right...
Trump said it best when they accused HIM of rigging the elections: "They're the same people that told us there were nuclear weapons in Iraq."

My understanding is that dissident Intelligence and Military insiders fed the HRC emails to Assange!!!

Steve Pieczenik: Hillary Clinton Takeover of the U.S. - Clinton Coup - Secret American Revolution
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssm_nskYbXI

As Ike said in his last speech...
Beware the Military-Indust rial Complex!!!

And we all know what happened to JFK when he tried to get the CIA under control...after they surprised him with their inept Bay of Pigs war on Cuba and a likely nuclear war with Russia. Only one Russian commander stopped the Russian subs in Cuban waters from launching their nuclear weapons.

As for 'rigging elections': if the DNC hadn't rigged their primaries...Tru mp wouldn't be our next President. Bernie would be!!!
 
 
0 # mighead 2017-01-05 21:47
As for HRC's "popular vote majority"...unf ortunately Jill Stein questioned the MI vote...and the 'real results' came out of the closet!!!

"Michigan Recount Exposes Clinton Electoral Fraud: Half of Detroit Votes Show Signs of Tampering
Votes in Hillary-heavy Detroit may have been counted up to 6 times"
http://russia-insider.com/en/michigan-recount-exposes-clinton-electoral-fraud-half-detroit-votes-show-signs-tampering/ri18118

The report was printed in the Detroit News...but the MSM has been 'dead silent' on it and only the Russia Today site reported it!!! No question that MI was rigged! But it was rigged for HRC...not Trump!!!

Gee, just like the DNC primaries!!! What a coincidence!!!

As for Assange: I certainly believe him over Obama and the CIA...all day every day...

Blaming Russia seems to be the DNC-HRC way to distract us from the contents of their emails.

Plus the Military-Indust rial complex is starving for another $1T war like Iraq and Afghanistan...n ot to mention a massive new 10-year $1T nuke upgrade; which with any luck will cost many, many times that amount!!!

IMO: Ike was right...
I hope Trump doesn't swallow the CIA's 'latest lie' in their attempts to get us into a war with Russia.

And BTW: that cyberstrike the CIA just found on a laptop that has 'Russian footprints' is actually a Ukraine piece of 'malware' that has thousands of net downloads of it. And surely, the CIA knows that far better than everybody else in the world does!!!
.
 
 
+10 # jackdresser 2017-01-05 22:12
Yes, mighead, the content of the emails is what matters, and we owe a debt of gratitude to whoever leaked them. At least six federal laws were violated by the server alone, and the contents, among many other things, exposed HRC's orchestration of the destruction of Libya, Africa's best developed, secular socialist state with the continent's highest human development index and per capita GDP, and the subsequent looting of Gaddafi's arsenals with shipments to Turkey to arm the assembled 5-nation lynch mob for destruction of Syria. Never mind her corrupt and criminal machinations involving Haiti, Honduras and Ukraine that are likely represented in the exhibits I hope will someday reach an international criminal court.
 
 
+13 # mighead 2017-01-05 23:31
As I understand it...

Tony Blair may end up in court on his activities in Iraq...'

And I'm hearing that the same fate is set up for Bush2 and Cheney if they ever leave the US for any reason...

SORRY TO SAY!!! I'M HOPING THAT HAPPENS!!!

In Syria alone...there are NINE MILLION PEOPLE displaced out of their homes and starving...sell ing their sons as slaves and their daughters as child brides in the hopes that they'll manage to survive. And that 9M number is BEFORE we started CARPET BOMBING the country!!! Just because Assad didn't want to be our puppet???!!!

Russia is dealing with over ONE MILLION REFUGEES from Ukraine...where we're also making sure that half of that country is CARPET BOMBED!!!

As for Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Yemen...and all of the others...plus all of our new 'adventures' in Africa...as long as a country is militarily inferior to us...they're FAIR GAME FOR A TAKEOVER!!!

WE ARE TRULY MONSTERS!!!
 
 
+15 # Caliban 2017-01-05 16:35
Trump will attack any person, company, or government Agency who implies anything negative about him or his various deeds and misdeeds.

The CIA's discovery of Russian efforts to meddle in US elections could be interpreted to suggest the Russians wanted him in the White House more than HRC -- clearly an idea The Donald doesn't want people thinking about too much.

So, time to attack, Donald style --without wondering whether or not he might need them in crisis situations.
 
 
+18 # Kiwikid 2017-01-05 18:00
"Trump will attack any person, company, or government Agency who implies anything negative about him or his various deeds and misdeeds." You're onto it, Caliban - that is exactly the point! Facts are irrelevant to him - His thin skin and hurts feelings will trump the National and World interest. This man has no apparent capacity for putting the needs of others before his own fragile ego. We are all in a very dangerous position. Those who flatter the man and stroke his ego, are likely to be the ones who have his ear and ultimately the reigns of power.
 
 
+19 # suzyskier 2017-01-05 19:36
All I can See in Trump is precisely what you wrote and the fact that he terrifies me with his thin skin and that he feels the need to seek vengeance. He treats our sitting President shamefully, he could at least wait until Obama is out of the White House before gleefully promising to gut the ACA first thing. Frankly he's an embarrassment to our country. Someone on here said the people in Europe thought it was good we (not me) elected Trump. I don't know where he get's his sources but I have read and heard the total opposite. Why would we elect another Fuhrer? Trump is only interested in Trump. How he has gotten away with what he has, he is a first rate liar, is a mystery. Hopefully Karma is soon.
 
 
+4 # virtualaudio 2017-01-06 11:02
Quoting suzyskier:
Someone on here said the people in Europe thought it was good we (not me) elected Trump. I don't know where he get's his sources but I have read and heard the total opposite. Why would we elect another Fuhrer?.

And now Marie LaPen is making a serious run for leader of France, while Breitbart moves in to stoke the nationalistic goose-stepping fires there.
There may be some sympathy with Trump in Europe, but it is born out of years of frustration from the blowback US / West actions have created (e.g. ISIS).
Are we headed toward the new wave of World Fascism?
As for the CIA, yes, they've overstepped their bounds, especially before 1974 (and again w Iran-Contra); they also have a spotty track record with some intel (e.g. pre Iranian Embassy analysis). But don't forget that it was Defense Under-Secretary Doug Feith's group that demanded the raw intel on IRAQ WMDs, then molded to fit Administration policy. Feith, Libby, Cheney, Rumsfeld.. those are the guys that pulled the strings for Iraq II (and the subsequent ISIS problem we have now). Most of the analysts had it right, but administration pressure and DCI laziness (Tenet) ultimately triumphed. So Trump's use of WMD to demonstrate CIA incompetence is not a viable example.
 
 
+4 # Radscal 2017-01-06 16:54
Most European Press parrots the US Coproate Media narratives on most subjects. And that was certainly true re: this election.

But many European people have been sincerely frightened by the ever-more likely war with Russia that Obama and HRC have been pushing. Prior to the election, Angela Merkel actually warned Germans to stock provisions and shelters to survive a coming catastrophe.

When one gets right down to it, actual survival is the driving force for every living thing.
 
 
-1 # Kiwikid 2017-01-07 00:06
Radscal - 'But many European people have been sincerely frightened by the ever-more likely war with Russia that Obama and HRC have been pushing.' References please.
 
 
+4 # Radscal 2017-01-07 18:24
Web searches can work for you, too.

"Poll: A third of Germans fear war with Russia over Ukraine and Syria"

http://uatoday.tv/society/poll-a-third-of-germans-fear-war-with-russia-over-ukraine-and-syria-794079.html

"Poll finds mass opposition in Europe to war drive vs. Russia over Ukraine"

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/06/11/euro-j11.html

"Europe Blocks U.S. from Racing to War Against Russia"

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/03/europe-blocks-u-s-racing-war-russia.html

"European leaders call for urgent arms talks with Russia

"Fourteen countries, including Germany and France, concerned about ‘unstable’ Europe and want new dialogue"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/25/european-leaders-call-for-urgent-arms-talks-with-russia

And, as I wrote, the MSM European press seeks to blame Russia, but even they admit that many of their citizens are/were scared to death of the US/NATO threats against Russia.
 
 
+1 # Cassandra2012 2017-01-06 17:54
Trumplethinskin , the know-nothing narcissist -in-chief pseudo-presiden t....
 
 
+5 # Anonymot 2017-01-05 18:43
I'm now in Europe talking to Europeans. Almost everyone outside of America wanted Trump over Clinton. Why? Because they bear the horrors of war, the arrivals of refugees, and the economic losses and they saw Clinton for the warmonger she was.
 
 
+26 # Kiwikid 2017-01-05 19:00
And I'm in New Zealand. While there are plenty here that would support Trump most of the people in my circle believe that Americans are crazing for electing such a man as president.
 
 
+9 # suzyskier 2017-01-05 19:38
That is simply not true. I have read much about Europeans reaction to this Election and never come across anything or anyone who praised Trump. Perhaps Russia likes him or Hungary?
 
 
-7 # JCM 2017-01-05 22:56
Russian appeasers are in force tonight.
 
 
+14 # treerapper 2017-01-06 04:16
Quoting Anonymot:
I'm now in Europe talking to Europeans. Almost everyone outside of America wanted Trump over Clinton. Why? Because they bear the horrors of war, the arrivals of refugees, and the economic losses and they saw Clinton for the warmonger she was.


Hey Anonymot, I don't know where in Europe you are talking about. I LIVE in Europe and NO ONE I know thinks electing the creature was a good idea. Did they like Hillary - no - but the creature with his Hitler-like ego issues, his complete disdain for anything that is not self-serving and his 3-Card Monte antics don't inspire Europeans.

Maybe you were interviewing the neo-fascist element. Surely they would be in the creature camp but anyone with a shred of intelligence is as worried as any sane person would be since the last thing you need as the president is a loose cannon.
 
 
+9 # MD426 2017-01-06 09:52
My son has lived and worked in London for over 7 years now and travels the continent frequently. He, his girlfriend and family, their friends, colleagues and clients were all appalled at the election of Trump.
"Almost everyone outside of America" is a gross exaggeration
 
 
+2 # jimbeama 2017-01-06 21:59
I'm sure you can find people who support Hitler. That doesn't mean the majority does. I listen to BBC world news almost daily. Nothing I've heard reported agrees with your anecdotal evidence.
 
 
+4 # lfeuille 2017-01-05 20:42
You mean the CIA's fabrication of Russian efforts to meddle in US elections.
 
 
-1 # Kiwikid 2017-01-07 00:08
Don't let the facts get in the way of a good prejudice, Ifeuille
 
 
0 # ericlipps 2017-01-06 06:05
Trump will never succeed in "eviscerating the deep state" because there isn't one, at least not in the paranoid sense expressed here. I expect to be thumb-bombed for this, but who cares?
 
 
+2 # dbrize 2017-01-06 07:58
Quoting ericlipps:
Trump will never succeed in "eviscerating the deep state" because there isn't one, at least not in the paranoid sense expressed here. I expect to be thumb-bombed for this, but who cares?


You do or you wouldn't mention it.
 
 
+2 # jimbeama 2017-01-06 21:52
The agencies did not do these things. The sitting presidents did. The CIA and the other agencies are tools of the executive. You people are clueless. You read wacked out conspiracies and think anyone who doesn't believe along with you is brainwashed. Grow up.
 
 
0 # mighead 2017-01-07 18:18
Tell that to JFK...
 
 
+1 # jdd 2017-01-08 11:23
Yes, and support for these war criminals. such as disgracefully displayed by the WMD promoting Dan Rather, is a betrayal of this nation and its laws.
 
 
0 # E.V.Debs 2017-01-09 23:16
It wasn't intelligence agency professionals that delivered the failures around 9/11 to Bush: It was his incompetent appointees.

Then they dutifully delivered the "slam dunk" nonsense to congress and the media.

He and Cheney needed scapegoats for their ignoring all the warnings produced by U.S. and many allied intelligence services about their expectations of an attack.

I was in Maryland, driving from downtown NYC to a morning meeting in D.C. when the first plane hit. I immediately said, "bin Laden." It didn't take seconds to think it through. It wasn't hard to figure out. A previous plot to take over planes flying from the Philippines had been foiled. I knew first hand that airport security, entrusted to the airlines themselves and contracted out to the lowest bidders was grossly insufficient.

I kept driving even as I figured a friend who was speaking at the meeting would need a ride back to Brooklyn. Just as I was exiting from the Beltway to Constitution Avenue, the Pentagon was hit. I could see smoke and debris rising from behind the Arlington cemetery hills.

I couldn't get a cell signal so stopped at a gas station to use its pay phone to let my spouse know I was OK. It didn't work. I advised the Arab owners to lock up their pumps and go home to protect their families. I drove to the next station which was run by black employees to see if their phone worked. They were frantic, asking me what was going on.

I said, "The chickens have come home to roost."
 
 
+46 # DogSoldier 2017-01-05 13:37
Trump is a buffoon, but why would anybody believe anything the CIA has to say? They've done nothing but lie, and cover up their abominations like MK ultra and Operation Northwoods for years.The CIA has been made up of lying, manipulative people since Allen Dulles founded it. Anything the CIA says should be filtered by deciding what their actual purpose is. The CIA lies to Presidents, they lied to Eisenhower, they lied to Kennedy. Their just like J. Edgar Hoover in finding events to blackmail politicians with.

I'd believe Assange over the CIA any day. Even Agent Orange Bozo can be right every once in a while.
 
 
+9 # vicnada 2017-01-05 15:34
Hear hear. And from the feel of Rather's trumping up support for Washington Post a week ago or so, I would make an intelligent guess that he is a cut-out for the CIA.
 
 
-21 # Caliban 2017-01-05 16:25
The CIA leadership does have to cover its rear every now and then, but overall, the Agency (like the FBI) is essential for for keeping American citizens safe in a complicated and dangerous world.
 
 
+18 # librarian1984 2017-01-05 18:34
The CIA has done more harm to the US than any other nation or entity.
 
 
+2 # jimbeama 2017-01-06 22:01
Who gives the CIA their marching orders? The executive. They are not an independent organization.
 
 
+1 # ReconFire 2017-01-06 23:57
Quoting jimbeama:
Who gives the CIA their marching orders? The executive. They are not an independent organization.


You're kidding right?
Try Wall St.
 
 
+2 # mighead 2017-01-07 18:19
As above...
Tell that to IKE...and JFK...
And Reagan didn't trust them either...
He had Paul Craig Roberts checking them and telling him what the truth really was...
 
 
0 # E.V.Debs 2017-01-09 23:31
Right. He wanted to know the truth about El Salvador and Honduras and Guatemala, I'm sure.

Spare us.
 
 
+4 # virtualaudio 2017-01-06 11:09
The CIA has had some moments of value & appropriate action (i.e. good intel gathering & analysis); unfortunately the legacy of Allen Dulles, James Angleton & Bill Harvey has stained the agency permanently, and many of the problems in the world can be laid at their feet, blowback from ops 25 - 50 years ago.
 
 
+20 # wrknight 2017-01-05 18:59
Quoting DogSoldier:
Trump is a buffoon, but why would anybody believe anything the CIA has to say? They've done nothing but lie, and cover up their abominations like MK ultra and Operation Northwoods for years.The CIA has been made up of lying, manipulative people since Allen Dulles founded it. Anything the CIA says should be filtered by deciding what their actual purpose is. The CIA lies to Presidents, they lied to Eisenhower, they lied to Kennedy. Their just like J. Edgar Hoover in finding events to blackmail politicians with.

I'd believe Assange over the CIA any day. Even Agent Orange Bozo can be right every once in a while.

One needs to realize, there are now two CIA's. There is the working level CIA consisting mostly of civil servants and then there is the appointee level. Appointees are generally political hacks and few are experienced intelligence people. Worker bees at the civil service level are not authorized to speak and damned well better not. Amongst the appointees are those who are not only authorized but directed to speak (thus spilling "official leaks") who are told to tell the media that they cannot identify themselves because they are not authorized to speak.

The fact that those who "leak" unauthorized information are in fact lying about the lack of authority to speak casts doubt on anything they say. What's worse is that true intelligence is filtered at the appointee level before it goes to the president.
 
 
+18 # wrknight 2017-01-05 19:05
The CIA was once known as the "No Comment" agency. In recent years it has morphed into the Central Disinformation Agency. Unfortunately much of that disinformation is also fed to the President depending on the agenda of those at the top of the agency.
 
 
+17 # Radscal 2017-01-05 19:20
I'm with you completely, with one correction. It was President Truman who created the CIA. Eisenhower appointed Allen Dulles as the 5th Director to run it (at the same time he appointed the other Dulles brother as Secretary of State).

That could be considered the founding of the CIA we have come to know and despise, as that's when Wall Street took it over.
 
 
+13 # ReconFire 2017-01-05 20:42
Correct as usual Radscal, I would only add, being very skeptical, Truman would only allow CIA to be intel briefers for the President. They later added (as well as change their mission statement), the operations side.
 
 
+16 # Radscal 2017-01-05 21:12
Yes. And on the one month anniversary of JFK's murder, Truman published an op-ed in the WaPo stating basically that he regretted forming the CIA.

https://archive.org/stream/LimitCIARoleToIntelligenceByHarrySTruman/Limit%20CIA%20Role%20To%20Intelligence%20by%20Harry%20S%20Truman_djvu.txt

His private notes show that he wrote that misuse of the CIA began in February 1953, when his successor, Dwight Eisenhower, named Allen Dulles as CIA director.

https://consortiumnews.com/2013/12/22/trumans-true-warning-on-the-cia/
 
 
+14 # jackdresser 2017-01-05 22:24
Yes, Radscal, Allen Dulles, Henry Kissinger and Bill Clinton are arguably the most brilliant, successful American psychopaths of the last century. Dulles assured that the CENTRAL intelligence agency would be exactly that, filtering all intelligence from the other intel agencies and distributing what he wanted to whom he wanted, thus exercising effective control of the entire federal gov't.

Dulles also quietly expanded the CIA role to operations as well as intel, which had never been originally intended, leading to an endless series of crimes and disasters for peoples throughout the world.
 
 
+12 # Radscal 2017-01-05 22:55
Yep. And of course, the Dulles Brothers and Billy were loyal sycophants to the supra-national banksters. Henry might be more a straight-up psychopath who's only in it for the sickest of reasons. Though, he's done quite well for himself.
 
 
-6 # suzyskier 2017-01-05 19:40
I would still believe them over Trump any day of the week.
 
 
+18 # rivervalley 2017-01-05 14:03
BBBBUT Dan Rather thinks they are right, & he was on TV! Doesn't everyone believe him?
 
 
+18 # gaga1996 2017-01-05 15:43
Well he did get screwed by the mainstream media a while back, so you'd think he would be more independent than this piece sounds.
 
 
+4 # Bruce Gruber 2017-01-06 08:19
OR it explains the sycophany of his recent utterings. Time and stress, punishment and peer association have conspired to make the man a softer shadow of his earlier, dissident (Donahue/Olberm ann/Bashear/Scu ltz/Toure/Baldw in/Ratigan/Harr is-Perry) "news" reporter era.

Dan has learned his "place", but he doesn't play his assigned role very convincingly.
 
 
+5 # Radscal 2017-01-06 17:00
It's interesting that you name "news reporters" who were fired by MSDNC.
 
 
+47 # Michaeljohn 2017-01-05 14:38
After the inauguration, when Trump has officially taken the oath of office, the Deep State will inform him what happens to little boys who don't play nice.
 
 
+26 # mashiguo 2017-01-05 14:55
they are more likely to show him than tell him.
 
 
+38 # reiverpacific 2017-01-05 14:57
Quoting Michaeljohn:
After the inauguration, when Trump has officially taken the oath of office, the Deep State will inform him what happens to little boys who don't play nice.


Like they surely did with Obama and any other president who wanted to make "changes".
I'm sure that they loved Dimwits Bush and his pappy.
 
 
+36 # Emmanuel Goldstein 2017-01-05 15:32
So true. JFK learned that lesson the hard way.
 
 
+21 # Radscal 2017-01-05 19:24
The Bush Crime Family has been aligned with CIA since at least 1961. GHW was even their Director at the time that they buried their "crown jewels" so Congress couldn't see them.
 
 
+8 # dbrize 2017-01-06 08:04
Quoting Radscal:
The Bush Crime Family has been aligned with CIA since at least 1961. GHW was even their Director at the time that they buried their "crown jewels" so Congress couldn't see them.


On it again Rads.

On the brouhaha started by one of the crazed list makers since taken down by the hall monitors, I remarked to revhen that I know of no two "families" that deserve each other more than the Bushes and Clinton's.
 
 
+8 # lfeuille 2017-01-05 20:49
The only change Obama wanted to make was for Democrats and Republicans to be more polite to each other. He was willing to cut Social Security for "bipartisanship ".
 
 
+9 # mighead 2017-01-05 21:59
IMO: it's important to point out here that Obama's mother and grandmother worked for the CIA...

And somebody put him through Harvard and gave him his first job in an Import-Export CIA front company.

That said...his foreign policies were far worse when HRC was head of State...e.g., our disastrous takeover of Libya...than they were after Kerry took over.
 
 
+12 # jackdresser 2017-01-05 22:28
Pappy was no dimwit. He was an inside player for a long time.
 
 
+3 # savagem13 2017-01-06 05:17
Obama wanted to make changes? Don't make me laugh!
 
 
+44 # anhinga 2017-01-05 14:38
17! Count 'em, folks--17! Intelligence (sic) agencies agree. Never mind that they're all under the direction and oversight of a single man, a man proved to have lied to Congress about domestic surveillance. I mean, why WOULDN'T we be eager to let ourselves be stampeded into another disastrous mistake, to be duped yet again in accordance with an agenda of the corporate oligarchy?
 
 
+51 # dickbd 2017-01-05 14:47
Part of the problem, in my opinion, is the animosity toward Russia. I have lived long enough that I can remember that Russia took the brunt of the war in Europe, and we can thank them the most for the defeat of the Axis powers there. Then, they helped in the war against Japan, just as they had agreed to do.

Even back in those days, corporate powers ruled our government, and I remember the pivot against Russia as soon as the war ended. All of this was because industry captains were scared to death of communism sweeping the world.

We've done more against Russia than they have against us. And yet, sages like liberal Dan Rather assume that Russia is an enemy. Of all the powers, we should be working with them--instead of trying to screw them at every opportunity. We should stop viewing them as hostile. They haven't hurt us.
 
 
+40 # mashiguo 2017-01-05 14:59
Cannot be repeated enough.

It is Russia alone that is responsible for western europe being liberated from the Nazis. They destroyed 90% of German army divisions.

I was in Russia at the end of Yeltsin's government and the beginning of Putin's.
What we did to that country was shameful.
Period.
We created Putin by destroying the country.
 
 
-14 # JCM 2017-01-05 16:19
mashiguo: Russia alone? What are your substantiated sources?
 
 
+25 # mashiguo 2017-01-05 16:28
Quoting JCM:
mashiguo: Russia alone? What are your substantiated sources?


if you can find a history of the war on the eastern front go read it. i cited one above.
it's common knowledge among anyone who was not propagandized in the isolated self-congratula tory US educational system.
 
 
-4 # JCM 2017-01-05 17:34
No it is not common knowledge. There is a lot of information about this subject at most a very few, who aren't totally bias, who says Russia (the Soviet Union) would have won the war alone. Much of Russia's agriculture was nearly decimated; war supplies were running out until the land lease in 1941 sent food, trucks and armament to Russia. The allies bombed oil fields, German cities and resources. In total it was a tremendous effort from all sides that brought victory to the world. Your kind of false news, propaganda is what leads us to making wrong decisions. And what's this, "what we did to that country was shameful". What exactly are you talking about?
 
 
+7 # mighead 2017-01-05 22:02
As I understand it...Russia held down 6 German divisions so our Normandy Invasion only had ONE German division to deal with.
 
 
+3 # JCM 2017-01-05 23:14
by the end of May 1944 a total of 58 German divisions were positioned in France, Belgium and the Netherlands.
 
 
-4 # Skippydelic 2017-01-05 18:57
Russia ALONE???

Russia was getting it's butt reamed by the Nazis UNTIL the U.S. started the Lend-Lease program and gave the Russians military equipment - guns, vehicles, airplanes, AND nuclear material!

Without the U.S. assistance, Russia would have been ANNIHILATED!
 
 
+21 # mashiguo 2017-01-05 19:28
go study the battle of stalingrad
when you are finished, ask yourself if you really want to take on russia
you have no idea what you are up against.
 
 
0 # Caliban 2017-01-07 13:36
I hope nobody is so insane at this point in history to launch a land war against Russia, China, or the USA.
 
 
+1 # mighead 2017-01-07 18:25
Personally...I' d take a 'land war' over a 'nuke war'...
 
 
+11 # wrknight 2017-01-05 22:36
Quoting Skippydelic:
Russia ALONE???

Russia was getting it's butt reamed by the Nazis UNTIL the U.S. started the Lend-Lease program and gave the Russians military equipment - guns, vehicles, airplanes, AND nuclear material!

Without the U.S. assistance, Russia would have been ANNIHILATED!


The U.S. had little or no impact on Russo-German conflict in WWII and the lend-lease program was not a factor. (Later on, it was a factor after the Russians defeated the Germans and then marched into Manchuria to defeat the Japanese occupation.)

What really defeated Hitler's Wehrmacht in Russia was the same thing that defeated Napoleon in 1812 - winter and the vastness of the land. It was a lesson that Hitler failed to heed. Like Napoleon's army, the Hitler's army was completely unprepared to withstand Russian winters which froze men, machines and weapons. Winter was Russia's only ally in the Russo-German conflict in WWII.

You will find an interesting "lessons learned" analysis written by senior members of the Wehrmacht at http://www.allworldwars.com/Effects-of-Climate-on-Combat-in-European-Russia.html
 
 
-12 # JCM 2017-01-05 23:18
wrknight: "The U.S. had little or no impact on Russo-German conflict in WWII and the lend-lease program was not a factor. (Later on, it was a factor after the Russians defeated the Germans and then marched into Manchuria to defeat the Japanese occupation.)"
Nobody here believes this simplistic crap. An easy Google search destroys this first paragraph.
 
 
+1 # wrknight 2017-01-06 12:26
Show me. Give me the timelines of the lend-lease program, the deliveries, the ports to which they were delivered, and the transit times from the ports to the theater of operations. Then give me the timelines and the paths of the German invasion, where and when the German invasion ground to a halt and when it began to retreat.

You show me that kind of information from a credible source and I might concede.

The two major turning points in the Russo-German war were the Battle of Moscow (December 1941) and the battle of Stalingrad (November 1942 - February 1943). Have you ever been in Moscow in December? It wasn't lend-lease materiel that stopped the German advance - it was winter, assisted by the Red Army.

Read the source cited above. That report was written by high level Wehrmacht officers who were there at the time. They might just be a little more credible than some unvalidated internet source.

PS You might also think about the oil, rubber and critical materiel that the U.S. sold to Germany in 1941 before we officially entered the war. Certain American businessmen made handsome profits selling war supplies to the Nazis. For example the U.S. supplied 44% of the oil imported by Germany in July of '41 and 94% in September '41. (Also remember that Germany has no domestic oil sources. It's all imported.)
 
 
0 # JCM 2017-01-06 19:37
wrknight: From, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease
For example, the USSR was highly dependent on rail transportation, but the war practically shut down rail equipment production. Just 446 locomotives were produced during the war,[25] with only 92 of those being built between 1942 and 1945.[26] In total, 92.7% of the wartime production of railroad equipment by the Soviet Union was supplied under Lend-Lease,[24] including 1,911 locomotives and 11,225 railcars[27] which augmented the existing prewar stocks of at least 20,000 locomotives and half a million railcars.[28]

Furthermore, the logistical support of the Soviet military was provided by hundreds of thousands of U.S.-made trucks. Indeed, by 1945, nearly a third of the truck strength of the Red Army was U.S.-built. Trucks such as the Dodge ¾ ton and Studebaker 2½ ton were easily the best trucks available in their class on either side on the Eastern Front. American shipments of telephone cable, aluminum, canned rations, and clothing were also critical.[29]

Lend-Lease also supplied significant amounts of weapons and ammunition. The Soviet air force received 18,700 aircraft, which amounted to about 30% of Soviet wartime aircraft production.[24] And while most tank units were equipped with Soviet-built models, some 7,000 Lend-Lease tanks were deployed by the Red Army.
 
 
0 # JCM 2017-01-06 19:39
Continued: According to the Russian historian Boris Vadimovich Sokolov, Lend-Lease played a crucial role in winning the war:
On the whole the following conclusion can be drawn: that without these Western shipments under Lend-Lease the Soviet Union not only would not have been able to win the Great Patriotic War, it would not have been able even to oppose the German invaders, since it could not itself produce sufficient quantities of arms and military equipment or adequate supplies of fuel and ammunition. The Soviet authorities were well aware of this dependency on Lend-Lease. Thus, Stalin told Harry Hopkins [FDR’s emissary to Moscow in July 1941] that the U.S.S.R. could not match Germany’s might as an occupier of Europe and its resources.[24]

Nikita Khrushchev, having served as a military commissar and intermediary between Stalin and his generals during the war, addressed directly the significance of Lend-lease aid in his memoirs:


I would like to express my candid opinion about Stalin’s views on whether the Red Army and the Soviet Union could have coped with Nazi Germany and survived the war without aid from the United States and Britain. First, I would like to tell about some remarks Stalin made and repeated several times when we were “discussing freely” among ourselves.
 
 
0 # JCM 2017-01-06 19:40
Continued: According to the Russian historian Boris Vadimovich Sokolov, Lend-Lease played a crucial role in winning the war:
On the whole the following conclusion can be drawn: that without these Western shipments under Lend-Lease the Soviet Union not only would not have been able to win the Great Patriotic War, it would not have been able even to oppose the German invaders, since it could not itself produce sufficient quantities of arms and military equipment or adequate supplies of fuel and ammunition. The Soviet authorities were well aware of this dependency on Lend-Lease. Thus, Stalin told Harry Hopkins [FDR’s emissary to Moscow in July 1941] that the U.S.S.R. could not match Germany’s might as an occupier of Europe and its resources.[24]

Nikita Khrushchev, having served as a military commissar and intermediary between Stalin and his generals during the war, addressed directly the significance of Lend-lease aid in his memoirs:


I would like to express my candid opinion about Stalin’s views on whether the Red Army and the Soviet Union could have coped with Nazi Germany and survived the war without aid from the United States and Britain. First, I would like to tell about some remarks Stalin made and repeated several times when we were “discussing freely” among ourselves.
 
 
0 # JCM 2017-01-06 19:40
Continued: According to the Russian historian Boris Vadimovich Sokolov, Lend-Lease played a crucial role in winning the war:
On the whole the following conclusion can be drawn: that without these Western shipments under Lend-Lease the Soviet Union not only would not have been able to win the Great Patriotic War, it would not have been able even to oppose the German invaders, since it could not itself produce sufficient quantities of arms and military equipment or adequate supplies of fuel and ammunition. The Soviet authorities were well aware of this dependency on Lend-Lease. Thus, Stalin told Harry Hopkins [FDR’s emissary to Moscow in July 1941] that the U.S.S.R. could not match Germany’s might as an occupier of Europe and its resources.[24]

Nikita Khrushchev, having served as a military commissar and intermediary between Stalin and his generals during the war, addressed directly the significance of Lend-lease aid in his memoirs:


I would like to express my candid opinion about Stalin’s views on whether the Red Army and the Soviet Union could have coped with Nazi Germany and survived the war without aid from the United States and Britain. First, I would like to tell about some remarks Stalin made and repeated several times when we were “discussing freely” among ourselves.
 
 
0 # JCM 2017-01-06 19:41
Continued: According to the Russian historian Boris Vadimovich Sokolov, Lend-Lease played a crucial role in winning the war:

On the whole the following conclusion can be drawn: that without these Western shipments under Lend-Lease the Soviet Union not only would not have been able to win the Great Patriotic War, it would not have been able even to oppose the German invaders, since it could not itself produce sufficient quantities of arms and military equipment or adequate supplies of fuel and ammunition. The Soviet authorities were well aware of this dependency on Lend-Lease. Thus, Stalin told Harry Hopkins [FDR’s emissary to Moscow in July 1941] that the U.S.S.R. could not match Germany’s might as an occupier of Europe and its resources.[24]

Nikita Khrushchev, having served as a military commissar and intermediary between Stalin and his generals during the war, addressed directly the significance of Lend-lease aid in his memoirs:
 
 
0 # JCM 2017-01-06 19:43
Lastly: I would like to express my candid opinion about Stalin’s views on whether the Red Army and the Soviet Union could have coped with Nazi Germany and survived the war without aid from the United States and Britain. First, I would like to tell about some remarks Stalin made and repeated several times when we were “discussing freely” among ourselves. He stated bluntly that if the United States had not helped us, we would not have won the war. If we had had to fight Nazi Germany one on one, we could not have stood up against Germany’s pressure, and we would have lost the war. No one ever discussed this subject officially, and I don’t think Stalin left any written evidence of his opinion, but I will state here that several times in conversations with me he noted that these were the actual circumstances. He never made a special point of holding a conversation on the subject, but when we were engaged in some kind of relaxed conversation, going over international questions of the past and present, and when we would return to the subject of the path we had traveled during the war, that is what he said. When I listened to his remarks, I was fully in agreement with him, and today I am even more so.
 
 
-1 # JCM 2017-01-06 19:51
wrknight: I don't appreciate hate baiting in any form or about any one or any country. This is divisive and unnecessary sick twist of history. I think most reasonably educated Americans understand the great loss of lives in the Soviet Union and their great sacrifices during WW2, but much of the deaths could also be attributed to attitudes toward their own Russian peoples lives. The war was an effort by many people and countries and without the help of all many more lives would have been lost.
Take your rubles and go home.
 
 
+9 # jackdresser 2017-01-05 22:32
It was Putin who rescued what was left of Russian resources from the oligarchs Yeltsin had loosed upon them, and for that he is deeply appreciated and respected.
 
 
+4 # mighead 2017-01-06 12:19
As I understand it...
We 'tampered' with the elections in Russia to get...and keep...our man Yeltsin in power...
 
 
-3 # JCM 2017-01-07 13:30
jackdresser: That is patently ridiculous. Putin has become the richest man in the world by ripping off Russian resources. He is the oligarch incarnate killing and imprisoning all opposition and only cares for what is good for himself.
 
 
-6 # Jaax88 2017-01-05 15:56
dickbd:
Maybe you can get your facts straight and not spin them to make your argument sound better than it is. Russia did not take the brunt of the war in Europe, the Soviet Union did. The Soviets barely helped against Japan in WWII. It turned eastward to claim land and improve its international standing. Its actual fighting was minimal and not significant in defeating Japan.

What about thanking the millions of American, European and colonial service people for their sacrifices and the US for
providing the Soviets with food and materials which helped them survive and shorten the war in Europe?

Putin and his Russia are not goody two shoes. Isn't spying on our government
and stealing commercial information from
American businesses hurting America? Why suck up to Putin and give him credit he does not deserve? Let him prove he is a decent and honorable man that can be trusted.
 
 
+34 # mashiguo 2017-01-05 16:20
It's true that Russia's entry into the Japanese theater was very late. They awaited the surrender of Germany before moving east.

It's also true that they had an ulterior motive: regaining land lost in the war of 1905 against Japan.

However to say they did not take the brunt of the war in Europe is an absolute lie.
14 +/- million Russians died.
US dead = 400-450 thousand.

approximately half the casualties in WW II were from the soviet union, slightly less from china.
13% of russian population
0.32% of american population

but hey, you are right on one thing:
we sent them a lot of spam!
 
 
-22 # Jaax88 2017-01-05 17:42
More silly justification for dickbd propaganda. Why don't you let him speak for himself?

War is unfortunate. You, however, are not telling the whole story. It was not America that was a party to the Soviet-German Non-Interventio n treaty of 1939 whereby the USSR got to possess about one half of Poland in the deal. It can be said that the Soviet Union participated in that treaty was a prime cause of its own destruction by the Germans. I think history will show the USSR did little or nothing to help Western Europe fight the
Germans before Germany invaded the USSR. That was because the Soviet communists wanted to destroy capitalism in Europe. From one perspective, USSR got what it deserved.
 
 
+9 # mashiguo 2017-01-05 19:37
There is no appropriate response to such an unremitting imbeciliity
 
 
-13 # Jaax88 2017-01-05 20:00
Check the facts first instead of making stupid comments.

It is hard to tell if some people here are honest commenters or just trolls with a disruptive agenda.
 
 
+7 # ReconFire 2017-01-05 20:48
Jaax88, Try reading a ww2 history book. You're making a fool of you're self
 
 
-10 # Jaax88 2017-01-05 23:18
Cite me some pertinent passages that support
your ridiculous accusation. At 78 and having read many, many items about WWIII I will only concede your claim if you provide me creditable historical material that contradicts what I have written.
 
 
+12 # mashiguo 2017-01-06 00:36
i've cited a book and you haven't read it yet.
it's a page turner, but 500 pages still takes some time.
in addition, it uses new documents opened up for public access after the fall of the soviet union.

Or - go on being an idiot.
 
 
+10 # wrknight 2017-01-05 23:14
The Soviet-German non-interventio n treaty worked to the advantage of both countries. The Soviets were totally unprepared for battle and the Germans were busy on their western front. As soon as they secured their western front, the Germans turned on the Soviet Union.

As for Poland, the Germans knew they were going to take it back so one can hardly call that a gift.
 
 
+7 # Radscal 2017-01-06 17:14
I am NO FAN of Stalin. However, it is a simple historical fact that Stalin repeatedly tried to warn Great Britain that Hitler was a threat to war throughout Europe. They ignored him, and instead signed the infamous "appeasement."

So, Stalin sought to work out a deal with Hitler in the hopes that the Soviet Union could be kept out of the war.

Obviously, that was a blunder, and Stalin failed to even prepare properly for the possibility that Hitler would invade.
 
 
+3 # mighead 2017-01-05 22:07
As I understand it...

The reason Japan surrendered to us had nothing to do with our nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki...and EVERYTHING to do with the fact that they were scared to death of the Russians moving into their 'theater' of the war.

So when they chose between a surrender to us and a Russian Invasion...they very wisely took the first alternative!!!
 
 
+3 # mighead 2017-01-06 12:31
I think the numbers I saw for WW2 were:
Russian Losses: 25% of the population...
US: 2% of the population...

As for the 'late entry' into the war...that was us, Pogo...
And to most Americans...tha t was the right thing to do...

But of course, we found out after the war that Germany was testing nuclear armed missiles that were intended to strike NYC.

Also..IMO: it was the citizenry in.places like Warsaw and Stalingrad (not to mention Norway!) that tied up Germany's forces at critical times and significantly slowed Germany's progress in the war...thankfull y!!!

Stalingrad alone held out for 1000 days...almost 3 years. When Putin talks about the resilience of the Russian people...I'm guessing he has Stalingrad in mind.
 
 
+7 # wrknight 2017-01-05 23:04
During the period 1941 - 1945 67% of the Red Army was from the Russian Republic. The remaining republics provided 33%. Russian casualties were about the same percentage.

The U.S. provided almost no assistance to the Soviet Union in the European theater which was virtually unreachable by the allied forces. Most of the U.S. provided assistance came through the port of Vladivostok on the east coast, came late in the war and was used principally in the invasion of Manchuria to defeat the Japanese occupation.

Bear in mind, Hitler invaded the Soviet Union in June 1941 before the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor and the U.S. had not entered the war and was totally unprepared for the war. By the time the U.S. got its act together, the Germans were already at Stalingrad (Battle of Stalingrad - November 1942 - February 1943).
 
 
+10 # wrknight 2017-01-05 19:25
It's interesting that I was taught many years ago that Russia didn't enter the war against Japan until a few days before Japan capitulated. What wasn't told to me at the time was that Russians invaded and defeated Manchuria which was then under Japanese control and critical to the Japanese war machine. I believe it is true the Russians didn't actually invade or do any damage to Japan proper or its captive islands, but they sure as hell wreaked havoc with their support on the Asian continent all of which was critical to the Japanese war machine.
 
 
+8 # wrknight 2017-01-05 19:31
It is also true that the Soviet Union didn't physically enter the war against Japan until after the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. However, plans were being formulated before Hiroshima and before the existence of an atomic bomb was known.

The Soviet Union's late entry into the war against Japan is more than justifiable as conducting a war on both eastern and western fronts would certainly have led to Russia's defeat. As it was, had it not been for the severe climate in Russia, they would have been defeated by the Germans without any help from the Japanese. Declaring war against Japan while retreating at light speed from the German invasion from the west would have been suicide.
 
 
+8 # wrknight 2017-01-05 19:39
The Soviet-German Non-Interventio n treaty was signed strictly in self defense knowing they didn't stand a chance against a German invasion. It also gave Russia time to build up their defenses. Trusting the U.S. or Europe to come to Russia's defense had they entered the war at the time of the treaty also would have been suicidal.
 
 
+7 # savagem13 2017-01-06 05:24
[quote name="dickbd"]

Even back in those days, corporate powers ruled our government, and I remember the pivot against Russia as soon as the war ended. All of this was because industry captains were scared to death of communism sweeping the world.



Exactly! It's the fear of communism, and the dangers it poses to the capitalist orgy, that the "captains of industry" are afraid of. Thus the beating of the anti-Russia drums by mainstream media whores. Why are people so incapable of thinking for themselves? Look at Russia's actions throughout modern history and realize that they are NOT the enemy to the average American!
 
 
+5 # Radscal 2017-01-06 17:20
Of course, modern Russia is nothing like communistic. But it is a "threat" to US/AAZ Empire's Eurasian hegemony.
 
 
-5 # Cassandra2012 2017-01-06 18:01
Polonium as an antidote for disobedience .....
KGB murderer Putin.....
 
 
+6 # dbrize 2017-01-06 18:43
Seth Rich. Michael Hastings. Gary Webb.

Antidotes for disobedience abound.
 
 
+5 # Radscal 2017-01-06 21:40
Zing!
 
 
0 # E.V.Debs 2017-01-10 02:05
Evidence of any conspiracy in these three unfortunate deaths?

Zero.
 
 
0 # E.V.Debs 2017-01-09 23:53
Your history is a bit off. Hiroshima was bombed on August 6th. Germany signed surrender terms on May 7th in Rheims, France, May 8th in Berlin. The Soviets invaded Manchuria on August 8th. Nagasaki was bombed on August 9th. The Russian declaration of war on Japan was inconsequential to the surrender.
 
 
+16 # ReconFire 2017-01-05 15:00
It's said that nobody can spot a con artist faster than another con artist. Trumps weapon perhaps.

So many 1/2 truths in this story, Dan Rather should be ashamed. Then he trots out the big one , we might be attacked again. Like he doesn't know it came from inside forces.....or was that a threat Dan?
 
 
-20 # kalpal 2017-01-05 15:14
I bet Alex Jones is one of your closest buddies.
 
 
+9 # ReconFire 2017-01-05 17:48
Quoting kalpal:
I bet Alex Jones is one of your closest buddies.


what's the matter Kapal, does the truth hurt, or is this you're day job?
 
 
+21 # danireland46 2017-01-05 15:00
Has everyone forgotten Donny asking Russia to expose Shillary's e-mails? Now that the intelligence community says they did what he asked he's not going to accept it - just another example of what a mess the next POTUS term is going to be.
 
 
+22 # Robbee 2017-01-05 15:34
Quoting danireland46:
Has everyone forgotten Donny asking Russia to expose Shillary's e-mails? Now that the intelligence community says they did what he asked he's not going to accept it - just another example of what a mess the next POTUS term is going to be.

- anyone who believes that rump is a better source on any subject - than anyone else - deludes themself

rump did not get to be prez by truth-telling - only by saying what a distributed minority of voters wanted him to say
 
 
+10 # librarian1984 2017-01-05 18:41
He did not ask Russia to hack. Clinton had deleted/ lost 30,000 emails AFTER being subpoenaed. Trump asked the Russians to find them.

He should have asked the NSA.

The NSA should be called as a witness in every single court case that concerns telecommunicati ons. Let's put that big taxpayer funded database to use.
 
 
+11 # wrknight 2017-01-05 20:43
At this point, none of this shit is believable. And why would anyone believe anything NSA said any more than they would believe what the CIA said or the State Department or even the president said? They're all a bunch of f'k'g liars.

This whole argument is so g-d stupid that it boggles the mind. The only thing of any value in this entire debacle is the content of the emails that were divulged, but does anybody care about that? No! You would all rather bitch about who released the emails than bitch about the substance of the emails.

The emails clearly show that the DNC rigged the presidential nomination. But does anybody care about that. No! All this bullshit about who leaked the emails is simply a red herring to detract from the content of the emails. And boy, did they succeed. You bought it hook, line and sinker.

Wake up and smell the roses, people! Read the emails. Get pissed about something important.
 
 
+6 # savagem13 2017-01-06 08:58
Quoting wrknight:


You would all rather bitch about who released the emails than bitch about the substance of the emails.

.


That's the whole POINT! That's why the media whores have been directed to make a big deal of the non-existent Russian hacking. To distract attention from the emails. And American Idiots are falling for it. Well, some of them are.

Actually, the Russian crap is a two-for, where the oligarchs are concerned. Distract the gullible American Idiots and continue to foment for a lucrative new Cold War with Russia.
 
 
+2 # John Puma 2017-01-07 03:03
To wrknight:

I've quoted you at another site enamored with "the Russkis did it" mania.

tinyurl.com/jsaylh7

I certainly hope this cross-site collaboration does not get us snagged by the McCranky/Graham -cracked truth and transparency juggernaut.

But I have noticed your moniker at that Trotsky-ite site "Consortium News," so I figured our days are numbered anyway.
 
 
+8 # mighead 2017-01-05 22:21
Librarian...tot ally agree...and also:

As I understand it...

HRC's real problem with the 'missing' 30,000 emails is that her service provider (as usual) has the backups of all of the originals...and all of that material hasl been turned over to the FBI.

That should also be true for all of the HRC, Podesta and DNC server contents. If and when they are ever under investigation!

Interestingly, none of them are arguing Assange's reports of their emaills; they're only saying that the Russians did it. For me, that argument is wearing pretty thin...but as long as it gives the CIA etal. an excuse for new sanctions on Russia...I guess it serves SOMEBODY'S purposes!!!
 
 
+6 # Radscal 2017-01-06 17:23
The DNC has refused to turn over their servers to the Feds.
 
 
+5 # dbrize 2017-01-06 18:46
Salient fact which for some reason goes unnoticed by the resident neolibs.
 
 
+3 # librarian1984 2017-01-07 16:15
And remember Clinton staff refused to testify to the FBI. Do we think Putin told them not to?
 
 
+6 # harleysch 2017-01-06 03:53
****NEWS FLASH**** Washington Post reports on intel agency evidence that Putin won the election for Trump: They found twitter comments from top Russian officials celebrating Trump's win over Hillary!!!!!

This is getting absurd! I would go one step further than librarian (though I agree with your sentiment) -- key NSA officials who oversaw (and are overseeing still) data collection of Americans should be indicted and put on trial.
 
 
+4 # mighead 2017-01-06 12:56
Harley:

Wish I could give you 100 thumbs up...

I wish the CIA would have gone to trial over the JFK assassination.. .or earlier when they began their takeover of Latam to enrich the Dulles Brothers holdings in the United Fruit Co.!!!

IMO that would have saved millions of lives in Latam, Central America, the M-E, Africa and now Ukraine.

And now our CIA trained ISIS terrorists are active in the EU???!!! [not to mention Russia-China Turkestan!!!]

In a perfect world...I would have wanted them shutdown after the near-miss nuclear war with Russia after their Bay of Pigs War...that they began without authorization from ANYBODY...much less our Commander in Chief...JFK...w hom they assassinated for his efforts.

And now the CIA is able to control our foreign policy through their civilian branch NED (National Endowment for Democracy). In S.America alone, they've managed to cripple the economies of Argentina, Brazil and Venezuela and overthrow the nationalist govts there. And let's not talk about Columbia, Chile and Peru and the others...much less Central America.

Next, they want to 'regime change' peaceful Ecuador...with the lowest murder rate in S.America. HRC was already starting in on EC for giving asylum to Assange and "interfering in the US elections" and ruining her campaign!!! EC Elections are in 2017...and the US just rigged the elections in Venezuela.

Looks like EC is next on the US S.America takeover agenda.
 
 
+16 # jimmyjames 2017-01-05 15:01
I've noticed lately that RSN has incorporated another deep state, corporate shill in none other than Dan Rather to prop up the nonsense that Russia is hacking US computers to influence our elections. Shame on RSN. Shame on Dan Rather. And shame on anyone who believes the CIA fabricated story. My best guess (from my research) is that Seth Rich (DNC staffer) leaked the emails in question and paid for that action with his life - just like many other citizens who went up against the Clinton crime family.
 
 
-27 # kalpal 2017-01-05 15:16
Another BS conspiracist is among us. Why not get Alex Jones to explain it all to you. He is a RW credible source if anyone ever can be.
 
 
+22 # jimmyjames 2017-01-05 16:37
Quoting kalpal:
Another BS conspiracist is among us. Why not get Alex Jones to explain it all to you. He is a RW credible source if anyone ever can be.

I suppose your source of truth is MSM.....good luck getting any truth from MSM fake news (supplied by the CIA)
 
 
+10 # wrknight 2017-01-05 19:46
Quoting jimmyjames:
Quoting kalpal:
Another BS conspiracist is among us. Why not get Alex Jones to explain it all to you. He is a RW credible source if anyone ever can be.

I suppose your source of truth is MSM.....good luck getting any truth from MSM fake news (supplied by the CIA)

No, no. It's all supplied by people who are not authorized to speak publicly. That makes it so much more believable.
 
 
+12 # Robbee 2017-01-05 15:28
those who think it hurts our little minds to get exposed to other ideas should publish their list of approved sources, thanks!
 
 
-23 # Henry 2017-01-05 16:21
Quoting jimmyjames:
I've noticed lately that RSN has incorporated another deep state, corporate shill in none other than Dan Rather to prop up the nonsense that Russia is hacking US computers to influence our elections. Shame on RSN. Shame on Dan Rather. And shame on anyone who believes the CIA fabricated story. My best guess (from my research) is that Seth Rich (DNC staffer) leaked the emails in question and paid for that action with his life - just like many other citizens who went up against the Clinton crime family.


Why are you here?
 
 
+10 # wrknight 2017-01-05 20:14
My biggest complaint about RSN is that it doesn't validate its sources. But I suspect that's because they simply don't have the budget to do that (hint, hint). However, they do tend to compensate by presenting different views, and you are free to choose which to believe.

I suspect jimmyjames is here for the same reason I am and that is to get information I can't get from MSM. (I go to other sources as well.) Do I believe all of it? No. Some of it? Yes. If the information on RSN is consistent with other independent sources, then I find it more believable. If I find it consistent only with corporate owned MSM, then I find it suspect. (Do I trust MSM anymore? No. Iraqi WMDs was the final nail in MSM's coffin.)

In this particular instance, I find Dan Rather's position consistent only with MSM and not with other independent sources including Julian Assange's wikileaks. At this time, I find that Assange has far greater credibility that those "official anonymous leakers" in the administration who are routinely used as sources of MSM "news". As a result, I also find Dan Rather's position suspect.
 
 
+9 # mighead 2017-01-05 22:25
IMO: the same can be said about HRC apologist Robert Reich...
 
 
+10 # librarian1984 2017-01-05 23:08
Just saw Sec. Reich on CNN saying it was despicable that Trump is questioning the intelligence community publicly.

Another guest asked, So you were against Hillary publicly blaming Dir. Comey for her election loss?

hahaha (Reich ducked the question.)

Enjoy your analysis here, wrknight (and mighead), and agree with your conclusion.
 
 
+3 # wrknight 2017-01-06 09:49
Quoting mighead:
IMO: the same can be said about HRC apologist Robert Reich...

Agreed.
 
 
+2 # Radscal 2017-01-06 17:27
The articles RSN chooses to post are more and more simply MSM propaganda. I still support and come here mostly for the commenters. I get most of my information on what's really happening from other sources. And based on the comments, I'd say most RSN commenters do the same.
 
 
-15 # eriks 41 2017-01-05 16:33
You are one demented soul.
 
 
-13 # Kiwikid 2017-01-05 18:09
You really are a scary lot! I thought those who voted for Trump were crazy - I see that the infection goes right across the board. Following most of these posts, I can hear the theme music 'da da da' da, da da da da' and I know we're in the Twightlight Zone.
 
 
+4 # Radscal 2017-01-06 17:33
You wrote you have adult sons, so that means you should be old enough to remember when CIA pulled a coup in your neighboring country, Australia.

Prime Minister Gough Whitlam was a tad bit too progressive for the supra-national financial interests, so he had to be taken out in a "soft coup" (the same sort that put Abe in charge of Japan a few years ago).

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/23/gough-whitlam-1975-coup-ended-australian-independence

Twilight Zone turns out to be right in your neighborhood.
 
 
-21 # johnborksales 2017-01-05 15:26
It appears that our progressive web site's commentary section, herewith is being taken over by conspiracy theory nuts and right wingers, who lack foundational insights and knowledge that makes them nothing more than pests to wade thru. Go away! You do not have cred. to comment on the likes of Dan Rather, Robert Reich and others,who grace the pages of Reader Supported News others. Say something worth While or, go pester Sean Hannity & Fox News
 
 
-14 # eriks 41 2017-01-05 16:35
John...you nailed it. the loons and willfully ignorants have taken over...as they will on a larger scale in a few weeks. Let's hope Rather and Reich keep the heat on.
 
 
+9 # ReconFire 2017-01-05 18:01
Henry, eriks, johnborksales,
jimmyjames is here to add his wisdom to the conversation, instead of name calling like you 3. If you can't do that without demeaning other people's opinion, maybe its you 3 who should hit the bricks. You might want to get you're head out of the sand and realize what's going on in this country.
 
 
+13 # librarian1984 2017-01-05 18:44
Do you guys know what progressivism is?
 
 
-12 # Kiwikid 2017-01-05 18:10
Absolutely!!!
 
 
+18 # dascher 2017-01-05 15:28
Considering what has been coming out of Netanyahu for the past 8 years, and that Israel has among the most skilled cybersecurity firms in the world, more than capable of leaving fingerprints on a hack that point to any perpetrator they want, why has nobody yet figured out that the source of the hacking of Podesta's gmail account and the DNC emails, was almost certainly the Israelis.

NOBODY IN THE WORLD thought Trump (most of all Trump himself who spent the first week of November complaining about the election being rigged against him) had any chance to win the election, and releasing moderately embarrassing emails would hardly have been worth the trouble if the goal was to change the election results. NOBODY, including Putin, would have expected to be able to change the election results to a Trump win, so it seems very unlikely that he would put in the effort.

The email hacking was simply designed to embarrass Clinton and undercut her claims of being the 'most competent and prepared' candidate for the Presidency ever. That would be more than enough reason for Netanyahu to order the hack & release.
 
 
+6 # jackdresser 2017-01-05 22:47
Unlikely, since HRC was Israel's best friend, bankrolled by Haim Saban whose "one issue is Israel," and had pledged to destroy Hezbollah."
 
 
+4 # Radscal 2017-01-06 17:37
And Trump was backed by Sheldon Adelson.

But the important thing is that Netanyahu and the even more openly right-wing Zionist fascists are thrilled that Trump won, which scares the hell out of me.
 
 
+3 # mighead 2017-01-06 13:11
As I understand it...from the DNC emails...

All of the DNC polling was being rigged for HRC. And 99% of those numbers were being reprinted verbatim by the MSM.

The truth was that Bernie's crowds in CA were
many thousands...whi le HRC's were barely 100 there.

The free concert by Beyonce (etal) for HRC was only a couple rows of people. 95% was empty seats.

Yet the polls kept saying she was leading??? Must be nice to own the MSM!!!

PS: look up Operation Mockingbird in WikiPedia.
 
 
+21 # angryspittle 2017-01-05 15:30
I have said for years that the first thing a new president does is escorted into the film room, is shown a 30 second clip of the Zapruder film, and then told, OK sir now get to work.
 
 
+5 # Radscal 2017-01-05 19:35
The Late, Great Bill Hicks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytv15ono5J0
 
 
+20 # janie1893 2017-01-05 15:47
I'M MAD AS HELL!!but I don't know anymore who to be mad at.
 
 
+16 # Saberoff 2017-01-05 16:39
Good. You're thinking.
 
 
+11 # librarian1984 2017-01-05 18:45
haha true enough. What a tangled web of deception, without government or media to help US.
 
 
+16 # Radscal 2017-01-05 19:39
A couple quotes from Voltaire might help you focus:

"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."

“Certainly any one who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.”
 
 
-2 # savagem13 2017-01-06 09:05
Quoting Radscal:

"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."


So that would be, first and foremost, the Jews, right?
 
 
+4 # Radscal 2017-01-06 17:41
The Zionists, regardless of religion or ethnicity as far as that group goes.

But more generally, the supra-national financial interests. It's acceptable to criticize their "excesses," at least since the Great Recession began, but even that is a limited hangout. As Bernie said, their entire business model is fraud.
 
 
-4 # Cassandra2012 2017-01-06 18:17
Quoting savagem13:
Quoting Radscal:

"To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize."


So that would be, first and foremost, the Jews, right?

Bigots are basically tacky "people"...
 
 
+3 # Radscal 2017-01-06 21:47
I would concur that all bigots are "tacky" to say the least.

I'm not so sure savagem13 was expressing that by questioning me. He/she may have been implying that I was a bigot for quoting Voltaire.

I write that because it's happened before. Which sometimes causes me to quote Shakespeare:

The responder "...doth protest too much, methinks."
 
 
+8 # wrknight 2017-01-05 20:15
Quoting janie1893:
I'M MAD AS HELL!!but I don't know anymore who to be mad at.

Start with MSM.
 
 
+23 # tedrey 2017-01-05 15:48
"Heaven forbid our intelligence community was hollowed out, wasn't listened to or respected." Heaven also forbid our intelligence community is politicized, perverted, and/or corrupted.
Those also are the stakes. Consider it carefully, Dan.
 
 
+29 # Saberoff 2017-01-05 16:01
Where is Greenwald? RSN used to pub Hedges! I'm getting sick of these people.
 
 
+11 # mashiguo 2017-01-05 16:12
Amen.
.... and the insects their rotting corpses of journalism attract too.
 
 
+22 # John_Fisher 2017-01-05 17:06
Glenn Greenwald is on Democracy Now! on this subject, from a few days ago.
 
 
+7 # jackdresser 2017-01-05 22:50
Read OpEdNews.
 
 
+4 # Saberoff 2017-01-06 07:37
Thanks
 
 
+2 # mighead 2017-01-06 13:22
My favorite is the Canadian site: Global Research...
www.globalresearch.ca
 
 
+29 # John_Fisher 2017-01-05 16:49
I just cannot be as confident as Mr. Rather that the "intelligence community" is telling the truth, after decades (centuries?) of political assassinations, regime change, cooking of intelligence for political gain -- a good portion of which shennanigans Mr. Rather has covered in his career. Not to mention the other thing that was nagging at the back of my mind, and Glenn Greenwald's interview on DemocracyNow brought it in focus: the left was singing Julian Assange's/Wikil eaks' praises not so long ago when they divulged some of the lying and fecklessness in Iraq & Afghanistan on the part of Bush II administration -- and GOPers wanted Assange extradited to the US and executed. Now the positions are completely reversed, the left attacking Assange for comporting with "Our enemy Russia" (which is a rather striking change of tune if you ask me, which nobody is), and the GOPers are urging us to listen more closely and credit Assange's work. I think Greewald nailed the motive too -- "political advantage" (on both sides)is how I think he put it.

There's just been too much *filthy* water under the bridge for me to trust our "Intelligence experts" at first blush, or second for that matter.
 
 
+16 # librarian1984 2017-01-05 18:53
I've watched about half of today's intel agencies' testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee. It was appalling, with GOP and Dems falling all over themselves blessing the farts of the CIA.

I had to take a break when DNI James 'no we're not spying on US citizens' Clapper accused Assange of being a liar.

Senator Mc Caskill was quite indignant on the agencies' behalf and later Sen. Graham said that agents are 'the best of US'! The best what? Regime changers? Assassins?

Since when do the Dems kowtow to the CIA and NSA? Surreal.
 
 
+10 # jackdresser 2017-01-05 22:53
"The best what?" Assassins. In Jeremy Scahill's documentary film on JSOC, "Dirty Wars," the Yemen president says,"Americans are the best."
 
 
+12 # Radscal 2017-01-05 19:42
I would observe that the actual left has always backed the publication of true documents that show us the inner workings of governments, corporations and individuals with power.

It is the partisans who practice such situational morality.
 
 
+15 # MDSolomon 2017-01-05 17:57
Dan Rather spent his entire career inside the box, reporting what the cartel wanted him to say.

Since he is not a political scientist, economist, or IT analyst, perhaps he never learned that the "intelligence" community does not ever tell it like it is.

Rather really needs to listen to what actual experts--who have looked at the FBI/Homeland Security report--have to say.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-hacking-intelligence-20170105-story.html
 
 
+10 # mighead 2017-01-05 22:48
Thanks mucho for the link...

I had heard/read that the WikiLeaks info had come from 'insider' intelligence and military sources...and I had suspected that William Binney's group had been the source...his group of ex-intelligence people have been trying to blow the whistle on these outrageous and dangerous falsehoods for a long time. They specifically wrote (and made sure it got printed in at least SOME of the MSM!!!) an 'open letter' to Obama saying that we should NOT be supporting the terrorist actions against the Syrian government; much less claiming that govt was using chemical weapons (sarin gas).

Two separate UN investigations came to the same conclusion: that the sarin gas attacks in Syria came from the rebel side...despite photos claiming to prove the opposite on the front page of the NYT. The NYT report of the UN findings was buried on page 19 of a weekend edition 3 months later.

The group wrote and published another 'open letter' to Merkel saying that the US 'intelligence' on Russia in Ukraine was also unfounded and untrue. But that seemed to have no effect on her...despite the fact that she (and German Intelligence) knew that we were tapping her phone.

So the link was a really interesting one for me!!! And confirmed much of my reading and suspicions.

Guess the CIA-Intelligenc e community would be really embarrassed if the MSM ever covered Binney's 'confessions'!! !
 
 
+11 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2017-01-05 21:27
Two points no one else seems to be making, one minor, one pretty important.
1) No one is making the connection that Trump is (probably temporarily) the first US President[-elec t] who has contradicted the “Intelligence Community.” Up till this issue, the President and the IC have scratched each others’ backs. Think about that. The CIA et al are used to SAYING something is true and the Prez agreeing with them but Trump isn’t playing ball which means they don’t have the upper hand in this skirmish. More importantly…
2) You know how we’re all saying we won’t believe the IC till they produce proof? Not “We have a high degree of confidence that the hacks were perpetrated by the Russian government” proof but REAL EVIDENCE? Well guess who has seen their “proof?” Yup - Trump. So after seeing their “proof” Trump is telling them to pound sand. I know Trump’s a jerk but even HE must know that if the IC had real proof and he, Trump, continued to call them liars, it would force their hand into making enough of that evidence public to smooth their image. The logical conclusion is that the “proof” is BS or nonexistent so Trump can safely stick his thumb in their collective eye.
 
 
-2 # Kropotkinesque 2017-01-06 15:45
I have finished responding to the request you put to me in
Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2017-01-04 14:13
posted at
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/41177-focus-a-lie-is-a-lie-is-a-lie

My responses begin with Kropotkinesque 2017-01-04 15:42
at
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/41177-focus-a-lie-is-a-lie-is-a-lie
 
 
+4 # Radscal 2017-01-06 17:51
Your point 1 is hardly minor. Even JFK, after realizing CIA had lied to and attempted to manipulate him on Cuba, and deciding to fire Dulles and work to dismantle them, kept his public comments supportive.
 
 
-9 # stevee19304@gmail.com 2017-01-05 22:13
It seems pretty obvious that Russia interfered in our elections.
Can President Obama issue and Executive Order to have a new election on January 10, 2017?
 
 
+9 # Kropotkinesque 2017-01-05 22:17
Now Dan Rather is dabbling in a mutation of the double-speak method of Big Brother of Orwell's 1984.

For many years, the U.S. Intelligence community has betrayed the U.S. citizenry — e.g., with lies, disinformation, propaganda playing as fact, and with mass illegal surveillance & engaging the U.S. in foreign interventions that have cost the U.S. citizenry trillions of dollars & impoverishing debt, and with the zero-evidence-s upported & utterly unsupportable claim that Russia hacked the election, or hacked the DNC or aught else, and to get Trump elected.

Trump's "betrayal" defends the citizenry against the citizenry-betra ying U.S. Intelligence community.
 
 
+7 # Kropotkinesque 2017-01-05 22:33
Sometimes RSN re-publishes articles published by The Intercept, but only if the articles do NOT debunk the Russia-hacked-t he-election crap or any other crap that favors Hillary and opposes Trump.

Today, RSN re-published a piece published by The Intercept, but the topic was whether fat cats could get fatter because of tax cuts Trump may put through Congress. About savory as pablum.

But RSN did NOT publish either of these publications of The Intercept:

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/04/the-u-s-government-thinks-thousands-of-russian-hackers-are-reading-my-blog-they-arent/

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/04/washpost-is-richly-rewarded-for-false-news-about-russia-threat-while-public-is-deceived/

Recently, the closest was an article that raised questions concerning Trump's Treasury Secretary pick.
http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/318-66/41223-corporations-prepare-to-gorge-on-tax-cuts-trump-claims-will-create-jobs

But that piece did not raise questions concerning Obama's Treasury Secretary, who was proven to be a big-time tax-evader & Wall Street stooge who subsidized Wall Street with taxpayer funds.
 
 
+11 # librarian1984 2017-01-06 02:07
I love seeing this chaos within the Republican party. There are many fractures already visible. We have GOT to be ready to accept disillusioned voters into our loving embrace.

McCain as usual is such a pompous arse, ready to nuke anyone who looks 'weird'. Lindsey Graham ACTUALLY said, 'Look, I wish we could all live in peace.' Hohoho! LG would bomb Brooklyn if he could.

The GOP is in authentic turmoil AND they are blowing this healthcare issue too. (There are healthcare protests on Jan. 15th.) We can take advantage of this. Get them fighting each other whenever possible and protest loud and clear, keep the pressure on. I really can't believe that in six years the GOP still doesn't have a replacement plan ready to go! If pressure is great enough maybe Trump will insist on single payer. Early in his campaign he said it was the best way. It would be easier to implement and be more cost effective, and would be very popular.

This dustup about the agencies is precious. These guys get tons of money, they are totally unaccountable, they drag our country through the mud, they're criminals who deal drugs, murder and torture without getting prosecuted -- but we're not kissing their arses nicely enough?!

Aren't they, at least nominally, working for US? To see their smug faces lying with impunity and smearing Assange, peddling fairy tales. You could tell they resented being questioned. And there were the Dems --- fawning and unquestioning.
 
 
+3 # wrknight 2017-01-06 10:00
Quoting librarian1984:
...I really can't believe that in six years the GOP still doesn't have a replacement plan ready to go!...
Lib, you need to understand the Republican mind. It's not that they don't have a replacement plan, they DON'T WANT one. The system in place before Obamacare was good enough and before Medicare it was even better. Any plan that gets in the way of profit is BAD!
 
 
+2 # librarian1984 2017-01-06 10:47
Well they are going to pay a heavy price for that approach. If they just leave a bunch of people high and dry they will not hang on to power long.

Trump flipped states where many rural voters are now 'enjoying' ACA. Is the GOP already willing to flip them back?

A conservative weakness is a reverence for the status quo at the expense of forward thinking. But there are profits to be made everywhere, even when the citizens are served.
 
 
+7 # dbrize 2017-01-06 10:48
Quoting wrknight:
Quoting librarian1984:
...I really can't believe that in six years the GOP still doesn't have a replacement plan ready to go!...
Lib, you need to understand the Republican mind. It's not that they don't have a replacement plan, they DON'T WANT one. The system in place before Obamacare was good enough and before Medicare it was even better. Any plan that gets in the way of profit is BAD!


Not sure I follow you. You certainly can't be suggesting that Obamacare has been bad for profits? The insurance industry have made out like bandits from it. Wasn't it the Dems that passed this welfare for the insurance companies debacle?
 
 
+3 # wrknight 2017-01-06 12:17
Quoting dbrize:
Quoting wrknight:
Quoting librarian1984:
...I really can't believe that in six years the GOP still doesn't have a replacement plan ready to go!...
Lib, you need to understand the Republican mind. It's not that they don't have a replacement plan, they DON'T WANT one. The system in place before Obamacare was good enough and before Medicare it was even better. Any plan that gets in the way of profit is BAD!


Not sure I follow you. You certainly can't be suggesting that Obamacare has been bad for profits? The insurance industry have made out like bandits from it. Wasn't it the Dems that passed this welfare for the insurance companies debacle?
Initially, it was great for the insurance industry. (I'm not sure healthcare providers scored that much but the insurance industry made out like Hogan's goat.) But as time went on, it wasn't so good. Haven't you noticed how several insurance companies are pulling out of a number of markets, leaving fewer and fewer participants and raising premiums? My daughter can tell you about that.
 
 
+5 # dbrize 2017-01-06 14:34
I agree and do not doubt your daughter is correct. But this enhances my point.

The present system favors the insurance companies who can raise premiums and withdraw from markets. Your original post condemned the GOP and "profits" as regards repeal of Ocare yet the system we have now from the Dems is what has stacked the deck in favor of the insurance industry.

Though I favor single payer, there are several versions that work quite well elsewhere with variation. Canada, U.K., France, Taiwan, Spain, Singapore and several others all have systems that contain differing features within the concept of single payer national health.

I doubt if the GOP is smart enough to do it, but they would be wise to offer a bipartisan committee to study all of these plans with the idea of creating our own "best of the best" single payer plan. If they did, they would still control the issue and reap many benefits in public perception.

If they don't, there is nothing stopping the Dems from suggesting it. I doubt if we will hear it from Pelosi or Schumer however.
 
 
+5 # mighead 2017-01-06 13:36
IMO: the 'split' in the DEM party between the Establishment and Progressive (Anti-Establish ment) wings was obvious and deep in the recent Dem Primaries.

But in the case of the primaries, the voting was rigged by the DNC to suppress the Progressives; so the Dems won the battle and LOST the WHOLE WAR!!! and a ton of their voters!!!

So I'm sad to say that I personally have no hopes that the Establishment Dems are ever going to change.their ways and move away from their campaign funders.

Unless there's a 3rd party or the Progressive Dems manage to override their Establishment compatriots...t he situation looks 'dim' to me...
 
 
-2 # Bruce Gruber 2017-01-06 09:23
The aging, self-smug oligarchy stacked the 2016 election with $billions$ for Hillary and JEB! ... not caring who won, but assured of the continued hell-drain of income inequality through the 'legalistic' mechanism of 'laws' and governance (a wholly owned subsidiary of worldwide corporatism). HOW SMART WERE THEY - individually OR collectively?!?

Their DNC shills stole the election for their "contrived" cheerleader (decades of investment in Madison Avenue promotion). HOW SMART WAS THAT?!?

A quasi-liberal entertainer/con artist entrepreneur stole their GOP "base". Despite almost four decades of scientifically generated gerrymandering and MSM divisive investment - 'fundamental' Christian certainty, tax - exempt UN-Think Tanks and faux-intilectur inals de-scientificat ion, and externally promoted enemies - HOW DID THEY DEMONSTRATE SUPERIORITY WITH 'THEM APPLES' ?!?

So, we have the Trumpeter denigrating every manipulated, fake, propagandized, patriotized, simplistic ad hominem that has been spoon fed to Americans since our founding. IT MAY NOT BE TOO LATE! THERE's TIME TO GET IT RIGHT (maybe! don't forget 'global warming!) TRUMP may be the vehicle of our salvation - by accident or design. HOW LUCKY IS THAT?!?

The plutocrats have their minions and munitions at the ready, trying to make fertilizer of the bovine excretion they presumed upon us. HOW SMART IS THAT? and

HOW ALERT ARE WE?!?

The Donald proffers KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid!) Stay within 140 characters!
 
 
+4 # Radscal 2017-01-06 17:58
I'm not so sure that Drumpf really is the renegade he's playing.
 
 
0 # molesoul 2017-01-06 12:06
Let's see what Trump tweets after his briefing today, but if he still denies reality, the investigative journalists (and CIA/FBI if they can manage it before they are emasculated by the NEW BOSS) need to look deeply into Trump's Russia dealings, because this amount of protest from him means one of two things, or perhaps both:
* he has conflicts of interest and very shady ties to Putin and/or other Russian oligarchs, mob bosses, etc.; or
* he is sooooo insecure in his election victory (and possibly had a hand in the Russian hacks) that he cannot tolerate even infinitesimal doubt about the legitimacy of his win. (Very few in the MSM are questioning the election win, but he and his people keep insisting they had a landslide.)

Me thinks he doth protest too much.
 
 
-3 # Cassandra2012 2017-01-06 18:22
Rather questionable since HRC got ca. 3 million MORE votes than he did!
 
 
0 # AlexG 2017-01-07 21:38
Sorry Dan Rather, but TRY TO UNDERSTAND: Anymore, there's now a very real Legitimation Crisis these days, when it comes to US citizens not automatically believing-in the official data and conclusions of their own government's intelligence agencies, or in the claims of our mainstream news media and upper-level politicians.
US's 2002-3 invasion of Iraq, which began the whole scale destabilization of the near and middle-East region, and which invasion was based on now- proven official lies about the "certainty" of the US intelligence findings at the time, is but one recent example of what has caused the current Legitimation Crisis for the US.
Have YOU, Dan Rather -- a pretty-good journalist otherwise over the years, suddenly/now forgotten all the US gov. & mainstream-medi a dissembling & collusion that have now made many average Americans DEEPLY SKEPTICAL about many, if not all, Official Claims and Policy Pronouncements ...?
 

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