RSN Fundraising Banner
FB Share
Email This Page
add comment
Print

Excerpt: "As Electors, we believe that deliberation is at the heart of democracy itself, not an empty or formalistic task ... The Constitution envisions the Electoral College as a deliberative body that plays a critical role in our system of government - ensuring that the American people elect a president who is constitutionally qualified and fit to serve."

James Clapper. (photo: Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images)
James Clapper. (photo: Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images)


Electoral College Electors Have Written a Letter to James Clapper

By Christine Pelosi, Extra Newsfeed

13 December 16

 

pen Letter to Director of National Intelligence James Clapper:

We are Electors who were selected by the voters of our states to represent them in the Electoral College on December 19, 2016. We intend to discharge our duties as Electors by ensuring that we select a candidate for president who, as our Founding Fathers envisioned, would be “endowed with the requisite qualifications.” As Electors, we also believe that deliberation is at the heart of democracy itself, not an empty or formalistic task. We do not understand our sole function to be to convene in mid-December, several weeks after Election Day, and summarily cast our votes. To the contrary, the Constitution envisions the Electoral College as a deliberative body that plays a critical role in our system of government — ensuring that the American people elect a president who is constitutionally qualified and fit to serve. Accordingly, to fulfill our role as Electors, we seek an informed and unrestrained opportunity to fulfill our constitutional role leading up to December 19th — that is, the ability to investigate, discuss, and deliberate with our colleagues about whom to vote for in the Electoral College.

We further emphasize Alexander Hamilton’s assertion in Federalist Paper #68 that a core purpose of the Electoral College was to prevent a “desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils.” The United States intelligence community has now concluded with “high confidence” that a foreign power, namely Russia, acted covertly to interfere in the presidential campaign with the intent of promoting Donald Trump’s candidacy. During the campaign Russia actively attempted to influence the election outcome through cyber attacks on our political institutions and a comprehensive propaganda campaign coordinated through Wikileaks and other outlets.

Allegations that Donald Trump was receiving assistance from a hostile foreign power to win the election began months before Election Day. When presented with information that the Russian government was interfering in the election through the course of the campaign, both in private briefings and public assessment, Donald Trump rejected it, refused to condemn it, and continued to accept their help. Donald Trump even made a direct plea to the Russian government to interfere further in the election in a press conference on July 27, saying, “Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing.”

According to reports in the Washington Post, New York Times, and other outlets, the United States intelligence community has now concluded definitively that the Russian interference was performed to help Donald Trump get elected, yet even today Mr. Trump is refusing to accept that finding. In response to the reports, the Trump transition office instead released a statement which called into question the validity of United States intelligence findings, and declared the election over despite the Electoral College not yet casting its votes. Trump’s willingness to disregard conclusions made by the intelligence community and his continuing defense of Russia and Russian President Vladimir Putin demand close scrutiny and deliberation from the Electoral College.

Separate from Mr. Trump’s own denials of Russian involvement in the election, the confirmed communication between Trump’s aides and those associated with the Russian election interference activity raise serious concerns that must be addressed before we cast our votes. Trump-confidant Roger Stone confirmed during the campaign that he was engaged in back-channel communications with Wikileaks founder Julian Assange, responsible for releasing much of the Russian-hacked Democratic communications, and indicated that he was aware of the hacked content prior to its release. Trump foreign policy advisor Carter Page reportedly visited Moscow in July of this year, just prior to the release of hacked DNC communications, during which it was believed he met with the Putin aide in charge of Russian intelligence on the U.S. election. Page returned to Moscow this week where he claimed to be meeting with Russian business and thought leaders.

In addition to Donald Trump and his aides’ conduct, revelations about their further involvement with the Russian government over the course of the campaign demand further investigation, as well as full disclosure of findings from any ongoing or closed investigative efforts:

  • Russian government officials revealed that they had maintained contact with the Trump campaign during the election, and stated that they were familiar with most of the individuals associated with Mr. Trump.

  • Media inquiries into whether the FBI was investigating Donald Trump’s July plea for Russian interference in the election resulted in a “Glomar response” neither confirming nor denying the existence of an investigation, rather than the more typical response of denying the request outright.

  • U.S. intelligence officials reportedly probed Trump foreign policy advisor Carter Page in regard to travel to his Moscow during the campaign.

  • The FBI reportedly began an inquiry into Trump associates following reports of a multi-million dollar business relationship with pro-Putin figures in Ukraine and Russia, and reports of an effort to sway American public opinion in favor of Ukraine’s pro-Putin government.

  • Michael Flynn, Trump campaign aide and the announced incoming National Security Advisor, traveled to Russia in December of 2015 for a gala event celebrating RT, a state-controlled propaganda network, at which he was seated next to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

The Electors require to know from the intelligence community whether there are ongoing investigations into ties between Donald Trump, his campaign or associates, and Russian government interference in the election, the scope of those investigations, how far those investigations may have reached, and who was involved in those investigations. We further require a briefing on all investigative findings, as these matters directly impact the core factors in our deliberations of whether Mr. Trump is fit to serve as President of the United States.

Additionally, the Electors will separately require from Donald Trump conclusive evidence that he and his staff and advisors did not accept Russian interference, or otherwise collaborate during the campaign, and conclusive disavowal and repudiation of such collaboration and interference going forward.

We hope that the information and actions described in this letter will be provided in an expeditious manner, so that we can fulfill our constitutional duty as Electors.

Signed,

Christine Pelosi (CA)

Micheal Baca (CO)

Anita Bonds (DC)

Courtney Watson (MD)

Dudley Dudley (NH)

Bev Hollingworth (NH)

Terie Norelli (NH)

Carol Shea-Porter (NH)

Clay Pell (RI)

Chris Suprun (TX)

Newly Added Electors:

Vinz Koller (CA)

Katherine Lyon (CA)

Andres Ramos (CA)

Jerad Sutton (CO)

Robert Nemenich (CO)

Jason Palitsch (MA)

Parwez Wahid (MA)

Paul G. Yorkis (MA)

Robert Leonard (MD)

Salome T. Peters (MD)

Stuart Appelbaum (NY)

Melissa Mark-Viverito (NY)

Stephanie Miner (NY)

Melissa Sklarz (NY)

Sam H.W. Sappington (OR)

Beth Caldwell (WA)

Bret Chiafalo (WA)

Deb Fitzgerald (VA)

Terry C. Frye (VA)

Presidential electors interested in adding their names to this letter should contact This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .


e-max.it: your social media marketing partner
 

Comments   

A note of caution regarding our comment sections:

For months a stream of media reports have warned of coordinated propaganda efforts targeting political websites based in the U.S., particularly in the run-up to the 2016 presidential election.

We too were alarmed at the patterns we were, and still are, seeing. It is clear that the provocateurs are far more savvy, disciplined, and purposeful than anything we have ever experienced before.

It is also clear that we still have elements of the same activity in our article discussion forums at this time.

We have hosted and encouraged reader expression since the turn of the century. The comments of our readers are the most vibrant, best-used interactive feature at Reader Supported News. Accordingly, we are strongly resistant to interrupting those services.

It is, however, important to note that in all likelihood hardened operatives are attempting to shape the dialog our community seeks to engage in.

Adapt and overcome.

Marc Ash
Founder, Reader Supported News

 
-52 # Anonymot 2016-12-13 10:00
I think America is being whipped up by the same factors and in the same manner as I saw being used in the Thirties in Germany!

Hillary Clinton lost as did the CIA. That's not pretty, but it's not fascistic, either. This is the CIA acting out its death wish for war with Russia.

Doing Business Beats War.
 
 
+15 # Saberoff 2016-12-13 10:21
Better hotels than tanks.
 
 
+52 # thekidde 2016-12-13 10:55
Actually, Clinton won. If more people vote for you than your opponent that usually means you won - not in Drump world, however. Where's the White Rabbit???
 
 
+43 # Anonymot 2016-12-13 11:09
Clinton won in some other country. In America it is not necessarily the popular vote that wins. We should have changed it, but didn't.
 
 
-24 # MidwestTom 2016-12-13 13:29
We should be prosecuting The Bank of England and the Rothchilds, they control the the magazine The Economists, and it's cover story the week of the election was that Hillary was the better choice. Obvious interference from a foreign entity. Where are the charges?
 
 
+11 # James38 2016-12-14 03:22
No, Clinton won right here. By nearly three million votes. It is the unconstitutiona l messes that have encrusted the election process that threaten to make a gift of the Presidency to Drumpf.

But there is still a chance. The Electors may actually use their Constitutional right to vote as they wish, and they could give the election back to the candidate who won it - or they might toss the election into the House, and that would be interesting.
 
 
+31 # grandlakeguy 2016-12-13 11:29
Yes Clinton won the popular vote however she still will always be the illegitimate candidate "winning" through fraud!
Her hubris and self entitlement deprived the world of Bernie Sanders.
 
 
+12 # Cassandra2012 2016-12-13 12:24
So enjoy your self-satisfacti on while enduring the world of neo-fascist Trump -- no doubt you are proud of your 'purity', so you will fit right in.

Do give it a rest, please. Your constant whining will accomplish nothing.
 
 
-6 # Kiwikid 2016-12-13 15:00
Amen!
 
 
+32 # grandlakeguy 2016-12-13 15:06
Cassandra:
I will never forgive the DNC and Clinton for what they have done to our country by cheating Bernie out of the nomination and the subsequent demolition of the Republican party by the avalanche of excited and energized voters that would have turned out to support him and all Democrats on the ticket.
Hillary and the party elites fully knew the enormous toxic baggage that she dragged along with her (I am sure that there is still lots more that we do not know about ) and yet decided to take the chance that she might lose because it was "her turn".

If you think that I am "enjoy(ing) …self satisfaction " from the outcome then you are totally blind to the reality of what has happened here.
We were forced to make a "choice" between two candidates both of which made the voters want to vomit in disgust!

The Republicans had nothing to offer so Trump rose to the top of that group and actually earned his nomination honestly.
The Democrat Party leadership had the opportunity to launch a modern day FDR who actually wanted to make our country a better place for regular people and not just for corporations
but their complete corruption would not allow that to happen.

America has been screwed and we have Hillary Clinton to thank for this. Any politician who would resort to election theft and disenfranchisem ent to "win" belongs not in office but in prison.

As to which of these two I judge to be worse…my answer is that they are BOTH WORSE!
 
 
+19 # chrisconnolly 2016-12-13 17:53
You are actually contending that Trump won fair and square? The man never spoke a sentence of truth, how can that be considered fair and square?
 
 
+5 # Jaax88 2016-12-13 18:45
Agreed CC. GLG is overstating his case by multiple times at least. All one has to consider is his obvious hate of Hillary which prevents rational thought on his part.
 
 
-2 # lfeuille 2016-12-13 21:59
He won the nomination fairly. Truth is not a prerequisite for being a candidate, they all lied, especially HRC.

He cheated in the general election.
 
 
+10 # grandlakeguy 2016-12-14 00:42
Please read what I wrote:

"The Republicans had nothing to offer so Trump rose to the top of that group and actually earned his nomination honestly."

There is nothing in that statement that addresses Trump's honesty or behavior in the general election.

Had Bernie Sanders engaged in the disgraceful and dishonest tactics that Hillary Clinton and her supporters displayed in the primaries he would have lost my support.

Call me old fashioned but I fervently believe that election theft is a high crime if not treason as it is the theft of our freedom to choose our representatives.


Clearly most Hillary supporters have no problem with that kind of dishonesty!
 
 
-4 # pegasus4508 2016-12-13 19:00
You hate Clinton and still have offered no proof that Sanders won. Sanders was and is an independent. He should have ran as one. However, EVEN in states with closed primaries. only those registered as independents could have voted for him. Rigged? Not unless you never voted in a primary. I voted for him in Maryland, a heavily DEMOCRATIC state. He lost badly. BADLY.
 
 
+11 # PCPrincess 2016-12-13 21:54
There is plenty of proof. Have you bothered to check it?
 
 
+6 # James38 2016-12-14 03:29
GrandLake, You do pretty well up to the last. You forget that the definition of Politics is "The Art of the Possible".

By that standard, Hillary Clinton is by far the lesser of the available evils. It is not a contradiction of your principles to vote for the lesser evil, it is just the best way to get to a place where your principles can have free reign.

Saying "BOTH WORSE" is cute, but meaningless.

I agree that Hillary's excessive ambition screwed the pooch, but she has good qualities also. Her record on women's rights, her stand on Climate change (better than drumpf, by far), etc.

"BOTH WORSE" is a classic example of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater."
 
 
-8 # backwards_cinderella 2016-12-14 03:32
Oh, get over yourself.
 
 
+3 # Majikman 2016-12-13 22:26
@Cassandra
Who are you to accuse some one of constant whining. I seem to recall you whining about misogynists, ad nauseum, in every dam comment you made prior to the election.
 
 
-6 # ericlipps 2016-12-15 21:12
Quoting grandlakeguy:
Yes Clinton won the popular vote however she still will always be the illegitimate candidate "winning" through fraud!
Her hubris and self entitlement deprived the world of Bernie Sanders.

Who, of course, would have walked across the Potomac on his way to his inauguration, would have risen from the grave three days after his death and would have ascended unto heaven forty days after that.

"Deprived the world of Bernie Sanders" indeed, Sen. Sanders doesn't have Trump's smug confidence in his own superiority to everyone else who has ever lived, so you're having it on his behalf.
 
 
+7 # Patriot 2016-12-16 02:29
Eric, you must exist on a diet of pure sour grapes. Stop your snide sniping remarks, okay? Sanders didn't win because he was cheated, and there's plenty of proof that he was cheated--but you just do not want to admit it. Clinton is the ONLY candidate who could have lost to Trump. Face it. Get over it. Move on.

If you haven't anything else to say, then just stop sayng anything, won't you?
 
 
+37 # anthraxripple 2016-12-13 12:30
You don't get to whine about "electors" after shoving "superdelegates " down our throat.

Sorry, but I'm not a fan of the hypocrisy.
 
 
+3 # John Puma 2016-12-14 05:52
To thekidde:

" ... not in Drump world ... " ?

Presumably you are the other person besides HRC who has never consulted the constitution.
 
 
+68 # wrknight 2016-12-13 10:57
Quoting Anonymot:
...Doing Business Beats War.

For the Defense Industrial Complex, doing war is the best business there is.
 
 
-17 # mashiguo 2016-12-13 16:09
Quoting wrknight:
Quoting Anonymot:
...Doing Business Beats War.

For the Defense Industrial Complex, doing war is the best business there is.


That's why handing power over to people from that business (Bushes, Cheney) was about as bloody stupid as US could every be.
That's also why handing power over to real estate and oil is a huge improvement. They are not motivated to death and rapine in order to profit, quite the opposite.
 
 
+9 # warrior woman 2016-12-13 18:38
That's not why we got the Iraq war or the regime changes in Libya, Syria, etc either, huh?
 
 
+24 # Jaax88 2016-12-13 18:56
You have ignored the knowm facts that much of the Middle East conflicts in our times have been caused by American oil industry people. Don't you remember the real reason for regime change in Iraq? Both Bush2 and Cheney were in the oil business. Your conclusion that "They are not motivated to death and rapine in order to profit, quite the opposite" is kind of dumb.
 
 
+42 # Jaax88 2016-12-13 11:32
Not when are freedoms are at stake. This trump thing is stoked by greed, money and profit (power)not the best interests of all Americans.
 
 
+3 # librarian1984 2016-12-14 08:45
Is your implication that Clinton is NOT motivated by greed, money and profit? lol.

Trump at least talked to people. Clinton couldn't be bothered. Did not go to WI once during the general election and only visited MI in the final weeks. Then again, the campaign devoted a lot of effort and money to PA and they lost that too. Why? Low road politics and ignoring the rural areas.

Anonymot's first post seems to have been a magnet for kneejerk Clinton supporters who are STILL in denial. Does not bode well for 2018 and beyond.

Where is the introspection, the admission that we had the wrong candidate, the wrong message, disastrous tactics? All I get from the people who led us into disaster is denial and blame pointed at everything except HRC and her team. Would those people run HRC in 2020 too?

Hillary apologists should be honest and join the GOP -- leave the DP to progressives, who remember what the party is supposed to represent.
 
 
+2 # Patriot 2016-12-16 02:30
Amen, sister!
 
 
+4 # Majikman 2016-12-13 22:21
Why red thumbs for Anonymot?
Pay them no mind,Anonymot, I agree.
 
 
0 # Patriot 2016-12-16 02:30
I do, too, Majikman.
 
 
-24 # Michaeljohn 2016-12-13 10:07
Quoting Anonymot:
I think America is being whipped up by the same factors and in the same manner as I saw being used in the Thirties in Germany!

Hillary Clinton lost as did the CIA. That's not pretty, but it's not fascistic, either. This is the CIA acting out its death wish for war with Russia.

Doing Business Beats War.


So what's your point? German companies made a lot or money from the war.
 
 
+27 # thekidde 2016-12-13 10:55
Indeed they did - prior to being reduced to rubble.
 
 
+25 # Anonymot 2016-12-13 11:12
Many of the big ones are still there and after WW II U.S. financial interests obtained controlling stock in them according to a German friend.
 
 
+17 # Tigre1 2016-12-13 13:03
My only hope is that a real estate developer won't want an atomic war to damage the land values. Uh, prices.

Anyway, I agree he loves the country. Every beautiful rentable square foot of it...
 
 
+54 # tedrey 2016-12-13 10:10
1) For starters, is it known whether these are electors previously chosen to vote for Clinton or for Trump?

2) Since the DNC, Republican state legislators, the FBI, designated electors, the CIA, and of coure the Russians and the media, have all been accused of tampering with the elections. . . everyone, it fact, except large sections of the voters who have been bypassed. . . I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to postpone the election until we can do it more openly and honestly. Otherwise, whatever this botched system comes up with will be viewed as illegitimate by half the population. And THAT is the direct road to either a "French Revolution" or a Civil War.
 
 
+14 # HowardMH 2016-12-13 10:54
Just look at the state they are from to find out who they were designated to vote for.
 
 
+9 # tedrey 2016-12-13 11:26
I did.

As one woould expect, ALL but one (from Texas) are already from states which Hillary won. In other words, they all are already committed to Hillary and have no intention of voting for Trump anyway. But they want Trump electors to change their votes. No Trump elector (sorry, one) wants new evidence.

I *detest* Trump. But this is also very dirty pool. Shouldn't these electors, or Clapper, or the reporter, or RSN itself, have pointed out that each of these electors were all Hillary supprters from the start.
 
 
+29 # Anonymot 2016-12-13 12:34
"Dirty pool" is what this whole election was about from both Establishments.
 
 
+17 # savagem13 2016-12-13 11:42
And THAT is the direct road to either a "French Revolution" or a Civil War.

Might this possibly be the intended end game?
 
 
+39 # Cassandra2012 2016-12-13 12:27
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
~ John F. Kennedy
 
 
+18 # grandlakeguy 2016-12-13 15:23
Bernie Sanders represented that chance at peaceful revolution.

Hillary Clinton represented more of the same corporate militarism as we have had to endure for far too long at the expense of our social programs and infrastructure.
 
 
0 # ericlipps 2016-12-15 21:18
Quoting grandlakeguy:
Bernie Sanders represented that chance at peaceful revolution.

Not if you go by some of his supporters here, who sound ready to have started a shooting war if Hillary Clinton became president.
 
 
+2 # Patriot 2016-12-16 02:31
Nope, Eric. It was CLINTO who wanted the shooting war.
 
 
-44 # indian weaver 2016-12-13 10:12
The government is fried. At this point, I can't imagine any justice for the traitors Obama, Clapper, the electors, Kerry, Biden, McConnell, McCain and some 500 others who deserve execution for treason for arming, funding and training ISIS and al-Qaeda in Syria and elsewhere, once heralded as the enemies of the USA, but now Obama's et. al.'s allies. And considering this is no longer a nation that operates under any Rule of Law, I'd say something of the order of Erdogan's mass executions with no judicial oversight is acceptable, considering that is who Obama is anyhow - just simple karma coming back to bite them all where it hurts most - death by summary execution for treason. That's what they'll be doing to us soon enough, anyhow, otherwise. Time to cover our own asses, not theirs. And now, we have the CIA / Obama / Congress actively involved with regime change by rogue lawlessness here in America. The CIA is chartered to work on foreign issues but it and the Democratic Party / Obama regime are planning to overthrow the American government by getting rid of Trump. Did you read this clear article published today in International Clearinghouse:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/46019.htm.
Several other companion articles have also been published today describing Obama's / Dem's / CIA's lies fomenting regime change in America.
 
 
+33 # RadicalLeft 2016-12-13 10:12
Great news. I am very happy that our country has an Electoral College that is serious about its mission. And congratulations to CIA for stepping up.
 
 
+16 # mashiguo 2016-12-13 10:27
Dumb.
The electoral college made the Trump win possible.
Without it, he would have lost.
Waiting on the wisdom of someone else to chose an appropriate leader got us into the Clinton-Trump sewer.
Presuming the same strategy will get us out of it is unrealistic.
 
 
+7 # savagem13 2016-12-13 11:43
Really, RadicalLeft? Have you REALLY learned nothing over the past several decades?
 
 
+16 # wrknight 2016-12-13 12:51
Quoting RadicalLeft:
Great news. I am very happy that our country has an Electoral College that is serious about its mission. And congratulations to CIA for stepping up.

Huh? Really? You call 31 out of 538 electors (about 6%) "an electoral college serious about it's mission"? And only one Republican among them? That's mind bending.

And the CIA didn't step up to anything. They stepped into bullshit up to their ears.
 
 
+4 # dquandle 2016-12-13 21:14
CIA "stepping up"....? The entire organization is predicated on regime change, originally "only" in foreign countries. Now, apparently, here too.

They offer no proof of anything, and will not allow any supposed proof to be shown to "protect CIA procedures".

Having "leftists" applauding anything the CIA might do is staggeringly appalling under any and all circumstances.

The fact that this "election" is turning into a turf war between the FBI and the CIA is an atrocity unto itself.
 
 
+1 # John Puma 2016-12-14 06:11
To RadLeft:

The CIA stepped up?

Do you mean the CIA assets that HRC controls stepped up?
 
 
+23 # dbrize 2016-12-13 10:19
One can close their eyes and imagine; the desperate calls, emails, impromptu meetings. McCain calls Pelosi, Pelosi calls her daughter.

The Clintons (who never go quietly) call the Bushes to begin reminding their coteries of all that COULD come to light if this prevails.

Henry K calls Zbig, both are patched in to Clapper. Clapper calls his friends in the Mossad and MI6.

Mitch reminds Marco of all those nasty things Trump said about him.

The calls and machinations exceed our ability to imagine them.

Political theater at perhaps its historic best, these final Hail Mary's lofted by the ancien regime.

Oh how the mighty are falling.
 
 
+4 # mashiguo 2016-12-13 10:30
Quoting dbrize:

Oh how the mighty are falling.


I hope this is true.
The saturation with the "russia did it" lie is overwhelming. If we did not have an enemy in Russia before it started, we certainly will afterwards if this tactic succeeds.

Then what?

My Senator came out for congressional investigation and declassificatio n today. I am going to call him and tell him that I am much more worried about social security and medicare than imaginary red-baiting. I suggest everyone do the same if you don't want the democrats to throw up this smoke screen so more can be yanked out from under our feet.
 
 
+27 # RMF 2016-12-13 12:15
Regrettably, you can forget about Soc Sec and Medicare -- with the GOP taking over repeal is a virtual certainty -- and it's not like we weren't on notice either. The Medicare Voucher has been in the Ryan Budget Blueprint since 2011, and privatization of Soc Sec goes all the way back to the W Bush admin.
In fact, the GOP House already has a Soc Sec bill, under which cuts for medium income earners range 11% to 28%, for high income earners cuts range 19% to 33%. Low income earners ($22K) fare better, receiving a small increase in benefit, but only if they work at least 44 years. Low income earners working only 30 years also receive a cut in benefit, same as their higher earning brethren.
While the current bill does not call for privatization of Soc Sec, there is ample time for amendment of the bill to include that as well. Most likely privatization will consist of a Wall St opt-out proviso, which could have a very adverse impact on the trust fund balance.
So, in short, it's pretty late in the game to now worry about Soc Sec and Medicare; the time to worry was before Nov 8.
Yes, we can write our Cong members, but the GOP has been campaigning on this for quite some time, and no doubt the GOP honchos realize they have a once-in-a-lifet ime chance to achieve this longstanding goal, all for the plutocracy.
I hope those paying lip service or more to Trump/GOP are now proud of the result.
 
 
-3 # Tigre1 2016-12-13 13:24
Nicely done, but Russia convinced me of its long-term motives many years ago. The colleagues of Putin were Soviet, thru and thru, and they always will be. They rose to power. Power must be used...exercised.

And now they still have some oil money. No doves among them, Tov.
 
 
+1 # mashiguo 2016-12-13 16:12
How many Russians do you know?
Not many, I am sure.
You are very far from an understanding of them.
 
 
+5 # savagem13 2016-12-13 11:45
Right. Disgusting. But even more disgusting is that so many Americans seem to be buying more lies from the CIA.
 
 
+14 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2016-12-13 17:00
Quoting savagem13:
Disgusting. But even more disgusting is that so many Americans seem to be buying more lies from the CIA.
That is because until Bernie's campaign for President, no one got any traction in the MSM regarding what the elites were doing to them or how badly that upper crust wanted to hurt them. The CIA lies hurt/killed people all over the world but not White folks in Tennessee.

There are unquestionably those in the Republican party who are willfully disregarding facts but the so-called base? They are ignorant and the "Party of Lincoln," as it hypocritically calls itself, like it that way :(
 
 
+3 # dquandle 2016-12-13 21:21
So we get a "choice" of either buying CIA lies or FBI lies. A stunning reflection of the main candidates in the election itself.

Both utterly disgusting. One a narcissist with psychopathic tendencies. The other, a psychopath with narcissistic tendencies....
 
 
+21 # Moxa 2016-12-13 10:26
What a cesspool is the American government! First, I don't believe anything the intelligence community says--I don't necessarily say it's false, simply we have no rational basis for accepting it as true. Secondly, what would this Electoral College mutiny, carried to its logical conclusion give us? Hillary Clinton? It is bewildering and disheartening to see that within this system there is no place to turn. With all corrupt, where is there recourse?
 
 
-2 # savagem13 2016-12-13 11:46
Right. Lord knows I'd love to see Trump ousted, but not in favor of the equally dangerous Clinton.
 
 
+11 # Cassandra2012 2016-12-13 12:30
Quoting savagem13:
Right. Lord knows I'd love to see Trump ousted, but not in favor of the equally dangerous Clinton.


Well, enjoy your four years of fascism with the orange-toupeed know-nothing narcissist bully, Trumpolini....
 
 
+3 # savagem13 2016-12-13 12:58
You know what, Cassandra? That kind of comment is really not helpful. I'd rather not see EITHER of them in power, how's that? Why does that automatically incite you to insult me? Have we really been doing that well under the existing system?
 
 
+1 # newell 2016-12-13 13:42
One--where is the insult?

Two--how could you possibly think Clinton is as bad as Trump? His statements and appointments on climate change alone, will kill millions.
 
 
+2 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2016-12-13 17:03
Quoting newell:
One--where is the insult?
"enjoy your four years of fascism?" Yeah. That's an insult

Quoting newell:
Two--how could you possibly think Clinton is as bad as Trump? His statements and appointments on climate change alone, will kill millions.
And Clinton provoking a nuclear war will too, just faster.
 
 
0 # newell 2016-12-14 08:42
The 1% will do anything for the bottom line except a nuclear war--not until they find another planet to degrade.
 
 
-2 # ericlipps 2016-12-15 21:21
Except, of course, that you have no evidence whatever that Clinton would have provoked a nuclear war. Trump might launch the missiles in a fit of temper, even if he is hand-in-hand with the Putin regime.
 
 
+3 # Patriot 2016-12-16 02:35
Oh, yes, we do. clinton was determined to set up a no-fly zone, and would have done so--but it would not have been effective until the Syrian Air Force and any flying Russian planes had been shot down--and what, exactly, Eric, do you think that would have caused.

You are so busy being snide, bitter, and falsely superior that youve missed everything else that's gone on.

St. Hillary was NOT the solution to all of our problems: SHE was the problem personified.
 
 
+2 # librarian1984 2016-12-16 08:17
Well said.
 
 
+5 # RMF 2016-12-13 14:06
# savagem13 -- in an election one has to choose -- there is no "none of the above." So while waiting for that perfect candidate to come down the pike, choose the best from among the alternatives available.
But your question asking whether we have been doing that well should be revised to read "are we going to do a lot worse under the GOP?"
Exhibit 1 and 2 -- repeal/privatiz ation of Soc Sec; Medicare repeal/replace with Voucher.
Both are bad beyond comprehension, but that second one is a real doozy, slashing away the only remaining competition facing the US insurance company complex. But privatization of Soc Sec also will work out very well for Wall St, with tremendous fees/commission s to be plundered...I even know the slogan they will use..."Make Wall St great again."
 
 
+19 # Tigre1 2016-12-13 13:27
I worry about Pence. Mr. 'Penny Wise and Pound Foolish' himself. And after him...Ryan?
Lord have mercy, this is one f9880ked mess.
 
 
0 # dquandle 2016-12-13 21:22
Hang them both, and let God decide which one should then be president.
 
 
+44 # Charles3000 2016-12-13 10:36
The letter does state the actual mission of the college; to insure an incompetent or dangerous individual does not ascend to the presidency.
 
 
+14 # Douglas Jack 2016-12-13 11:39
Charles3000, RE: "the Constitution envisions the Electoral College as a deliberative body that plays a critical role in our system of government — ensuring that the American people elect a president who is constitutionall y qualified and fit to serve." NOT
Minority 'Democratic' Electoral-Colle ge members badly misinterpret their mandate. Key missing words are, "To fulfill the will-of-the-peo ple". Not to say that; anyone in USA's oligarch-bought , unverifiable, untraceable, computer-hackab le, no-paper-nor-di gital-photo-tra il, lack of partisan oversight, massive delisting-of-et hnic-voters system knows what the will of the people actually is.

Ever since invasion by colonial economic-ecolog ical European refugees, genocide of 1st Nations in the Americas, basic human understanding of constitutional law has been totally lacking & is glorified in education & civil law. Glorification of genocidal traditions is sick as is the farce of the American nation continuing its genocide worldwide. Administration, population & agencies are in total denial, institutional or self-imposed ignorance.

1st Nations & all humanity's worldwide 'indigenous' (Latin 'self-generatin g') heritage ensures popular 'democracy' (Greek 'power-of-the-p eople') through the universal progressive-own ership of Economic-Democr acy in specialized Production-Soci ety/Guilds for all domestic, industrial & commercial contributions. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/relational-economy/8-economic-democracy
 
 
+13 # Cassandra2012 2016-12-13 12:31
So, 2.6 million more votes and counting for Clinton are not the actual 'will of the people'?
 
 
+11 # Douglas Jack 2016-12-13 12:46
Cassandra2012, RE: "So 2.6 million more votes and counting for Clinton are not the actual 'will of the people'?"

What verifiable paper trail, traceable digital ballot photo recount process are you referring to, which all parties have access for review? You must be referring to: President Victor Yanukovych Ukraine, Castro's Cuba, Gaddafi's Libya, al Assad's Syria, Putin Russia, Maurice Bishop's Grenada, Allende's Chile or other democratic nations who have or had such processes in place before violent US interference.

What popular-denial, religion or belief system are you part of, which allows you to ignore all the lack of verification facts in the US electoral process?

«Now it’s just an oligarchy, with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or to elect the president. And the same thing applies to governors, and US senators and congress members», concludes former US president Jimmy Carter. http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2016/09/27/us-elections-neither-free-nor-fair.html
 
 
+20 # dbrize 2016-12-13 13:34
Quoting Cassandra2012:
So, 2.6 million more votes and counting for Clinton are not the actual 'will of the people'?


The "will of the people" is exactly why the Founders created a separation of powers and the electoral college to begin with. They distrusted the "will of the people" and avoided pure democracy purposely.

They debated long and hard on how the president should be chosen and ultimately all agreed they did NOT want national direct election.

And all you have to do is peruse RSN to know very quickly that there is no single unified "will of the people".

Take the California vote alone out of the equation and how does the popular vote look? Does one state (no matter Wyoming or California or any other) represent the "will of the people"? Millions did not vote by design. This is part of the "will of the people".

The entire federal system and checks and balances is specifically designed to limit majoritarian rule.
 
 
+1 # mashiguo 2016-12-13 16:16
Quoting dbrize:


The entire federal system and checks and balances is specifically designed to limit majoritarian rule.


And that is precisely why US is not a just government: it does not derive its authority from the consent of the governed.
 
 
+9 # dbrize 2016-12-13 16:58
Quoting mashiguo:
Quoting dbrize:


The entire federal system and checks and balances is specifically designed to limit majoritarian rule.


And that is precisely why US is not a just government: it does not derive its authority from the consent of the governed.


I am sure you and I could undertake a very deep and layered discussion based on what constitutes "the consent of the governed" and a "just government". Even if such a thing were possible in toto.

From there we would of necessity have need to examine and reexamine many disparate attempts at such, perhaps even question whether or not "government" is the best way to organize the affairs of humans.

Unfortunately we would likely bore our readers to tears quite quickly (please dear readers, resist the urge to snipe).

For now, we have what we have and I for one would be content if we would understand and follow the constitution we presently have. That would be a good start in a better direction.
 
 
+3 # mashiguo 2016-12-14 04:02
Quoting dbrize:
Quoting mashiguo:
Quoting dbrize:


The entire federal system and checks and balances is specifically designed to limit majoritarian rule.


And that is precisely why US is not a just government: it does not derive its authority from the consent of the governed.


I am sure you and I could undertake a very deep and layered discussion based on what constitutes "the consent of the governed" and a "just government". Even if such a thing were possible in toto.


It's defined in the declaration of independence. No need to argue about it.
 
 
+7 # dbrize 2016-12-14 08:44
Quoting mashiguo:
Quoting dbrize:
Quoting mashiguo:
Quoting dbrize:


The entire federal system and checks and balances is specifically designed to limit majoritarian rule.


And that is precisely why US is not a just government: it does not derive its authority from the consent of the governed.


I am sure you and I could undertake a very deep and layered discussion based on what constitutes "the consent of the governed" and a "just government". Even if such a thing were possible in toto.


It's defined in the declaration of independence. No need to argue about it.


A discussion and argument need not be synonymous. The DOI provides a reasoned justification for the secession. It also acknowledges human imperfection.

The preamble to the constitution mentions the desire for "a MORE perfect union" not a perfect one. They recognized their own imperfections (something we might try now and again to good effect), did the best they could and gave us a system that provided peaceful means for change but only with patience, deliberation and compromise.

And yes, I am well aware of the sad exception to "peaceful means". A horrific deviation best not repeated, I hope you would agree.

I refer again to my final paragraph above and rest my argument er, discussion. :)
 
 
+10 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2016-12-13 17:26
Quoting mashiguo:
Quoting dbrize:
The entire federal system and checks and balances is specifically designed to limit majoritarian rule.

And that is precisely why US is not a just government: it does not derive its authority from the consent of the governed.
Not just? [I agree it's not just but I STRONGLY disagree that this is because we have a Republic!] Be careful what you ask for mashiguo. In a TRUE democracy, Majority Rules - ALWAYS.

Even if there is a constitution that protects religious minorities, a majority vote "of the people" can delete that protection.

Cruel and unusual punishment prohibited? Oh, but WE, the Christians of America, want to save everyone's soul! Torture the heretics till they confess their sins! Majority Rules.

There are more women than men here. Men are responsible for almost all the war, most burglaries, assaults, murders. So let's vote to deprive them of the right to vote or hold office. They are clearly incompetent to do either. Majority rules.

It's called The Tyranny of the Majority and it is just as dangerous as a Tyranny of One, maybe worse. A despot is just that, no redeeming graces. But a DEMOCRACY. OH MY - WHAT COULD POSSIBLY BE BAD ABOUT A DEMOCRACY OR ANYTHING IT DOES??? What indeed...
 
 
+1 # John Puma 2016-12-14 06:22
To Cass2012

Sure, as soon as you convincingly demonstrate that HRC would hand over the presidency to Herr Hair if the situation were reversed.
 
 
+8 # newell 2016-12-13 13:55
"Ever since invasion by colonial economic-ecolog ical European refugees, genocide of 1st Nations in the Americas, basic human understanding of constitutional law has been totally lacking & is glorified in education & civil law. Glorification of genocidal traditions is sick as is the farce of the American nation continuing its genocide worldwide. Administration, population & agencies are in total denial, institutional or self-imposed ignorance.

1st Nations & all humanity's worldwide 'indigenous' (Latin 'self-generatin g') heritage ensures popular 'democracy' (Greek 'power-of-the-p eople') through the universal progressive-own ership of Economic-Democr acy in specialized Production-Soci ety/Guilds for all domestic, industrial & commercial contributions. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/relational-economy/8-economic-democracy"

Agree. Modern politics in the U.S. is for us to believe we live in a democracy. It was never intended that we should govern ourselves.
 
 
+17 # Moxa 2016-12-13 11:54
But that is also another democracy-defea ting aspect of the Electoral College. It is bad enough that if my candidate loses the popular vote in my state my vote doesn't count at all since all the electoral votes go to his/her opponent. If we say, but no, the electors can vote for the CORRECT candidate, the less corrupt candidate, the legitimate candidate (in the opinion of these electors) then why have elections at all? The votes of nobody in my state counts since it is finally up to the electors to decide who they want to vote for.

The only quasi-legitimat e use for the Electoral College would be to ferret out wrong-doing, that is, election fraud. But should it really depend on a group of citizens untrained in the investigative work necessary to reveal such corruption, to, at their whim, take on the burden of this correction? You see how far the Establishment let Jill Stein get in her pursuit of the truth. Well, they crucified Jesus. It seems the higher your calling the more they won't abide you.
 
 
+5 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2016-12-13 17:33
Quoting Moxa:
But that is also another democracy-defeating aspect of the Electoral College...if my candidate loses the popular vote in my state my vote doesn't count at all...
That is not a feature of the EC. That is a policy agreed to by the major parties AT THE STATE LEVEL, to perpetuate their power.
Quoting Moxa:
The only quasi-legitimate use for the Electoral College would be to ferret out wrong-doing, that is, election fraud.
Alas, no. That responsibility belongs with THOSE WE ELECT, not people appointed by State Legislatures to serve for only a few weeks.
 
 
+9 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2016-12-13 17:06
Quoting Charles3000:
The letter does state the actual mission of the college; to insure an incompetent or dangerous individual does not ascend to the presidency.
Except that is NOT the mission of the EC. It's the mission of the grandstanding Clinton supporters. There's not one word in the Constitution about the EC having a mission.
 
 
+1 # dquandle 2016-12-13 21:25
In either case they've failed.
 
 
+17 # Carol R 2016-12-13 10:37
Washington Post: Ayn Rand-acolyte Donald Trump stacks his cabinet with fellow objectivists BY JAMES HOHMANN

– Ayn Rand was perhaps the leading literary voice in 20th century America for the notion that, in society, there are makers and takers, and that the takers are parasitic moochers who get in the way of the morally-superio r innovators. Her books portray the federal government as an evil force, trying to stop hard-working men from accumulating the wealth that she believes they deserve. …

..."Tillerson and Trump had no previous relationship, but the Texas oilman and the New York developer hit it off when they met face to face. One of the things that they have in common is their shared affection for the works of Ayn Rand...

Tillerson prefers “Atlas Shrugged... The CEO listed it as his favorite book in a 2008 feature for Scouting Magazine, according to biographer Steve Coll.
 
 
+14 # Douglas Jack 2016-12-13 12:29
Carol R, For those not familiar with Ayn Rand's contempt in real-life or those of her blind hypocrite followers, who in no way exhibit in their own lives, what they preach.

AynRand on Donahue 1979 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u8Jjth81_Q
1974 - 82 Ayn Rand (Alisa Zinov’yeuna Rosenbaum 1905 – 82) spent the last 8 years of her life receiving Social-Security & Medicare benefits. At the time of Ayn's death, her estate was valued at 500,000$ (1,258,111.70 buying power in 2016 USD). In The Virtue of Selfishness, Rand compares Medicare to a "hoodlum" "who robs & kills to acquire a yacht & champagne". ". . . and that; you are moving toward disaster until and unless all those welfare state conceptions have been reversed and rejected". Ayn died in 1982 from cancer brought on by excessive smoking.

An integrating approach to reason comes from the Russian geographer Petr Kropotkin who from 4 decades of field research as well as a cultural understanding of Europe & Asia's indigenous heritage in 1905 publishes 'Mutual-Aid, A Factor of Evolution'. Petr was writing in response to Charles Darwin's 'The Origin of the Species' which as well addresses mutual-aid but without the deep decades of field observations which Kropotkin is able to bring to bear. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/home/2-mutual-aid
 
 
+8 # Patriot 2016-12-14 00:51
But Trump, who is not a "reader", probably never has read it--whatever his beliefs.
 
 
+7 # ddd-rrr 2016-12-13 10:38
If true, and this effort is successful in getting the information released to the electors, perhaps there is yet hope that we all may avoid a disastrous (on MANY levels!) "Trumpian era"!
 
 
+4 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2016-12-13 17:37
Quoting ddd-rrr:
If true, and this effort is successful in getting the information released to the electors, perhaps there is yet hope that we all may avoid a disastrous (on MANY levels!) "Trumpian era"!
Hard to get enthused about replacing a Trumpian era with a Clinton apocalypse.
 
 
+16 # chrisconnolly 2016-12-13 10:40
Trump has never been fit for office, nor until now has he ever run. He showed interest only in the highest office in the land and is now proving his disinterest in representing not only the people who didn't vote for him but those who did. HIs camaraderie with the Russian President bodes poorly for we the people. I hope the electoral college does the job as fitly as the letter above implies they are interested in doing.
 
 
-11 # HowardMH 2016-12-13 10:49
What about the Wimpy Bastard that didn't have the guts or backbone to stand up and tell McConnell to do to hell back in Sep. when most of the leadership of the congress was TOTALLY READY to make public the CIA report on Russia.

McConnell said NO and the Wimp crawled back under his desk and did nothing. Now all hell is breaking loose over the CIA report as it should be.

It was just HOURS after the Wimp told the CIA he wanted a report on the Russian hacking (that he already knew all about BACK IN Sep 2016) that the CIA had the backbone to leak the story to the Washington Post knowing that the Wimp was not going to say peep to the American people about the information he already had. The Wimp just trying to cover his ass and look macho about the hacking, hoping beyond all odds that NOBODY was going to find out what the CIA had already told him in Sep.

Way to go Washington Post!!!
 
 
-10 # Cassandra2012 2016-12-13 12:33
Broken records are tiring, and not much use in the long run. Do give it a rest.
 
 
+3 # librarian1984 2016-12-14 08:55
Pot .. kettle ..
 
 
+19 # tedrey 2016-12-13 11:05
The salient precedent case in which all the intelligence agencies were reported as agreeing on a major finding was the claim for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq; that proved to be a false claim by the (Republican) administration to lie the American people into a needless war.

A similar but less remembered case was the claim that the Syrian government had been using Sarin gas when it appeared that the administration (Democratic) had falsely claimed unanimity of all the intelligence agencies in a seeming attempt to escalate the war in Syria. Public outcry stopped that attempt.

I would hesitate to blindly follow these precedents.

Let's ask the heads (and some subordinates) in these departments, under oath, if they have solid findings of attempts of the Russians, *or any other agents* to tamper with the election.
 
 
+5 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2016-12-13 17:41
Quoting tedrey:
Let's ask the heads (and some subordinates) in these departments, under oath, if they have solid findings of attempts of the Russians, *or any other agents* to tamper with the election.
Let's make that "the Russian government," not just "the Russians." Russia is home to a prosperous cyber criminal element, ready and willing to hack on behalf of anyone with the money... like the Koch Bros.
 
 
+12 # wrknight 2016-12-13 11:06
Notice that there are only 29 out of 538 signatories to this letter and I see only one elector in that letter from a state that voted for Trump.

And why the hell would they send such a letter to Clapper. That seems really dumb as DNI, Clapper can do nothing about the election.

And finally, no one has yet provided any evidence of foreign intervention.
 
 
+13 # wrknight 2016-12-13 11:10
Now don't get me wrong. I fully understand and agree with Hamilton's arguments for the electoral college at the time (back in 1787). However, what Hamilton failed to foresee was the subversion of the electoral college by two strong political parties and the establishment of a "winner take all rule" by those parties thus ensuring their dominance and control of all elections for the foreseeable future.
 
 
+3 # librarian1984 2016-12-14 09:00
Quoting wrknight:
And why the hell would they send such a letter to Clapper. That seems really dumb as DNI, Clapper can do nothing about the election.
Well we know it can't have been because they were looking for an honest person to help them.

Perhaps they wanted someone they know believes the end justifies the means -- and 'the end' is anything they want it to be, regardless of the Constitution or the will of the people.
 
 
+8 # aDog8myH8 2016-12-13 11:22
So 31 electors are talking about doing their job based on propaganda from the intelligence community. That leaves 507 mostly red state electors to ignore this last minute distraction. Unless of course, Santa convinces all of them to put Bernie in the White House.
 
 
+6 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2016-12-13 17:52
Quoting aDog8myH8:
That leaves 507 mostly red state electors to ignore this last minute distraction. Unless of course, Santa convinces all of them to put Bernie in the White House.
That would certainly be thwarting the popular vote but the thing is - if we say to the EC, vote your conscience, there is nothing in the Constitution to stop them from voting for Sanders... or Mickey Mouse for that matter. If we are to have a rule of law, we can't just break that law because we are unhappy with how it's working out. WE CAN CHANGE THAT LAW. That is fine. But just break it? No.

And that is what has been wrong in our government for decades. The Constitution IS a set of laws yet when those laws are broken, no one pays a price. No one stops the law breakers. Not when Congress lets the Executive declare war and not when the Senate refuses to do its job advising and either consenting or rejecting Presidential nominations.
 
 
+15 # savagem13 2016-12-13 11:39
Those of you who see this as good news are just letting yourselves be manipulated--in the same ways, and by the same people--as you have been before. Don't you ever LEARN?! Hillary wanted war with Russia. Thus the Putin-baiting even before the debates were over. She lost. So now they've resorted to another, familiar tactic--by having the CIA whip up some lies. There is NO substantiation to these claims. The CIA is lying to you again (WMD, anyone?)--with the assistance of the puppet media. How is this a good thing?!

I am not a Trump supporter. I am not a Clinton supporter. So don't accuse me of either, please! Deep State is manipulating you again. Don't fall for it this time.
 
 
-5 # Jaax88 2016-12-13 20:11
Where is the substantiation for your dubious claims? Where do you get the idea that one lie is proof of a second, totally unrelated and decades apart assertion claimed by you to be a lie?
 
 
0 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2016-12-16 15:05
Quoting Jaax88:
Where do you get the idea that one lie is proof of a second, totally unrelated and decades apart assertion claimed by you to be a lie?
Ooh wee laddie. That is an easy one to answer. An old Scottish proverb, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
 
 
0 # Jaax88 2016-12-18 15:02
Nice try tref, but old sayings, however, sensible they may sound and be relied upon as common knowledge does not diminish my point that one lie is not proof of a second lie.
 
 
-4 # ericlipps 2016-12-15 21:25
Just on principle, when I encounter the term "Deep State" (especially in caps) on this site, I move on. I have a background in psychology and know paranoia when I see it.
 
 
+2 # Patriot 2016-12-16 02:37
And I have a background in common sense, and know ignorance when I see it.
 
 
-10 # Philothustra 2016-12-13 12:06
We will never know if, how and when the Putin propaganda machine in St. Petersburg hacked the DNC or Hillary's emails, because as usual the CIA tells us "We could tell you, but then we'd have to kill you." And sending a letter of protest to the Clapper is farcical. Clapper, like Putin, is an unabashed liar/ perjurer, and so for that matter is Clinton-- Trump too, but he doesn't know the difference.
That said, the repeated assertion that "Hillary wanted war with Russia" is symptomatic of the brain rot on the left. All parties to the 2016 election long since took leave of any reality.
 
 
+9 # savagem13 2016-12-13 12:21
Philothustra

"Hillary wanted war with Russia" is symptomatic of the brain rot on the left.

I listened to Hillary talk about a "No Fly Zone" over Russia (correction, Syria. Brain fart) during her second debate, I believe it was. Then the DNC immediately began blaming Wilileaks on Russia. You don't call that provoking Putin? Please, if you consider this interpretation symptomatic of "brain rot," explain your interpretation of recent events.
 
 
-6 # Jaax88 2016-12-13 20:26
Philothustra
'"No Fly Zone"' over Russia? Correction, it was over Syria. Your conclusion that Hillary provoke Putin? Boohoo, he is not a child.
 
 
+5 # savagem13 2016-12-14 06:26
Oops, Syria. Mind fart. That's what I meant. Thanks.
 
 
0 # Jaax88 2016-12-18 15:03
Noted,thanks.
 
 
+6 # dquandle 2016-12-13 21:33
Yes indeed. Clinton wants war no matter what, from the political grave if need be....

Not to mention that her filthy Sate Department pushed NATO guns missiles and troops right up to the Russia border., turning a legitimate home grown call for democracy, and against staggering corruption, into a fascist call for regime change through terror and murder, by Nazi friends of Hillary's neocon buddies in the State department, the ones left over fro Bush/Cheney, who she happily took under her harpy wing..
 
 
+4 # cory75 2016-12-13 12:17
"It takes a village" reduced to smoking rubble for Hillary to achieve wargasm.
 
 
+9 # lorenbliss 2016-12-13 14:30
@cory75: Actually for Hillary that's only foreplay. What really gets her off is when the village chieftan is executed by anal impalement.
 
 
+9 # savagem13 2016-12-13 13:11
All you CIA/Clinton worshipers, please have a look at this article, excerpt below. Security experts who are NOT current members of the murderous, duplicitous regime doubt that Russia was involved in the election:

"In a letter published on Consortium News regarding claims circulating that Russia interfered in the recent U.S. elections, the group Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS) penned a powerful rebuke of the narrative being spread. Signed by retired intelligence officials William Binney, Mike Gravel, Larry Johnson, Ray McGovern, Elizabeth Murray and Kirk Wiebe, the memorandum offered a bold rethinking of the alleged “hack” because “given what we know of [the National Security Agency’s] existing capabilities, it beggars belief that NSA would be unable to identify anyone—Russian or not—attempting to interfere in a U.S. election by hacking.”

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/william_binney_ray_mcgovern_intel_experts_russia_hacking_20161213
 
 
-5 # Jaax88 2016-12-13 21:05
That seems to be a faulty conclusion to me. Why don't those folks make the same charge when the administration claims the Chinese government hacks into our governmental and business computer systems? It leads me to think many people
here and in the anti-war community do not want to think Putin is a bad guy and are wiling to find excuses for him.
 
 
-1 # 201549Air1931 2016-12-14 14:22
But is it logical that anti war community is right...Russia as we speak is bombing ivilians...civi lians not soldier to soldier ...civilians... is America next...do we just close our eyes and place a known Russian Puppet in the Oval Office? ? Hmmmmm...that seems odd...when we can step back breathe pause and not allow the con to continue...what ayathink? ? Your thoughts?
 
 
+5 # dquandle 2016-12-13 22:12
Thanks for the link. It is useful and important.

However, if the NSA chooses to side with the CIA's version of the story, because those in the NSA want to see Hillary in power as well, and are in love with the idea of a winnable nuclear war, we the people would not be able to tell if the NSA was lying to us, as well as having the CIA lie to us. As demonstrated by Clapper, Alexander and co., the former, oddly enough, the precise person to whom the Pelosi gang just made an appeal, those heading the NSA, CIA, and the "intelligence" community as a whole, have absolutely no compunction about lying blatantly to the American public.
 
 
-2 # jefepelon 2016-12-13 14:40
Don't over "anal..yze" the problem or possible solutions. A rose by any other name is still a rose, and a dog turd called Trump is still a dog turd. If the electoral college does its job, and just follow the facts, not lies, innuendo or opinions, Trump will not ascend to the presidency. Just look at his choices for his transition team and cabinet. OMG Alfred E. Neuman could do a better job than this idiot. The founding fathers had just this scenario in mind when they created the concept of the electoral college. There are millions of Trump supporters who are suffering "buyers remorse". Electors, vote your conscience, failure to rebuff trump will result in civil war!!!!
 
 
+3 # savagem13 2016-12-13 15:43
"Failure to rebuff trump will result in civil war!!!!"

You're joking with this, right? Think of many of Trump's followers. Think of their reaction if Trump's presidency, which they (probably rightfully) view as legitimately earned, is then taken away from them based upon a bunch of mass hysteria fomented by conjecture and lies issued by the CIA. Think, really, really think. WHAT is likely to result in a Civil War?!
 
 
-2 # 201549Air1931 2016-12-14 14:14
Okaaaaaaay. ..I get u...like u say...thiiiink. ..thiiiink...th iiiink...sooooo o we knowingly put in a Russian Puppet and his cronies into the Oval Office. ...???? All they want to do is Paaaaause...jus t Paaaaause b4 we go into the Fire Pit...whatayath ink?
 
 
-2 # 201549Air1931 2016-12-14 14:18
Or not...but having said that...I think if we just pause...if the Electoral College could just put pause button...let us catch our breath and let the chips fall where they may before putting a Russian Puppet into the Oval Office so be it. .your thoughts?
 
 
+13 # djnova50 2016-12-13 14:58
I did not vote for Trump or Clinton. I survived George W. Bush's presidency; most likely, I will survive Trump's.

One thing about Trump is that he seems to want diplomatic relations with Russia/Putin. I see nothing wrong with that. Does that mean that Putin will take over our country? Probably not. I'd much rather have Russia as a friend than an enemy of the US.
 
 
+5 # wrknight 2016-12-13 23:44
Me, too.
 
 
-3 # 201549Air1931 2016-12-14 14:11
Okay. ..but does it concern you that they interfered ...not invited...but interfered...it bothers me ...and this would be for whoever the real winner is or isn't ...I would love to know that this was fair and square... and the smell..the stench is astronomical. ..your thoughts?
 
 
+2 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2016-12-13 19:25
If I could have my way, Congress would immediately pass a bill, and Obama would sign it, designating January 15, 2017, as a ONE TIME ONLY open primary day wherein every person who had been registered to vote at any time in the period 01-Jan-2000 through 31-Jan-2016, WHETHER OR NOT THEY HAD BEEN PURGED FROM THE VOTER ROLLS, would be able to vote for anyone they wanted. Next, all the votes nationwide would be tallied and the top 5 vote getters nationwide, regardless of party or not belonging to any party, would appear on a ballot to be voted on April 1,2017. The same precinct lists as had been used on 15-Jan-2017 would again be in play for this 01-Apr-2017 election. The results of the voting in each State would be tallied and the Person who received the most votes would be President and the #2 vote getter would be Vice-President, REGARDLESS OF PARTY. That “ticket” would be sworn in no later than 15-Apr-2017. The bill would also specify that Obama would serve as interim President until 15-Apr-2017.

I know that’s not going to happen, but if I could wave a magic wand and “Make it So,” I would. That said…
 
 
-3 # 201549Air1931 2016-12-14 13:45
WowZer. ..I'm impressed. ..game on...love it. ..
 
 
0 # ericlipps 2016-12-15 21:28
Nice April Fools' Day joke there.
 
 
+9 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2016-12-13 19:26
Clinton supporters are claiming that the Constitution “envisions the Electoral College as a deliberative body,” which is untrue and that the Electoral College is supposed to screen candidates and protect the American people from electing a President who is constitutionall y qualified and fit to serve, a grossly misleading interpretation of the injunctions in Federalist Paper #68. However, what THEY, the Clinton supporters, are doing is in DIRECT contravention of Hamilton’s words in #68.

“And as the electors, chosen in each State, are to assemble and vote in the State in which they are chosen, this detached and divided situation will expose them much less to heats and ferments, which might be communicated from them to the people, than if they were all to be convened at one time, in one place.”

In 1788, geography kept Electors from various States from communicating their intentions to each other and Hamilton clearly thought this A DESIRABLE THING. Yet here Clinton Electors are conspiring to deprive Trump of the Presidency in direct contravention of Hamilton’s words.
 
 
+3 # hipocampelo 2016-12-13 20:47
Sanders would be best, but Trump if we must.
No way Mrs Clinton, as that would finish off
this once great nation.
 
 
-3 # ericlipps 2016-12-15 21:31
Quoting hipocampelo:
Sanders would be best, but Trump if we must.
No way Mrs Clinton, as that would finish off
this once great nation.

Groan. You sound like one of those wackypot Republicans who think Hillary Clinton murdered Vince Foster. Where's your evidence that a President Hillary Clinton would "finish off" this country? Oh, right. You don't need no stinkin' evidence.
 
 
+5 # Patriot 2016-12-14 01:25
Hmmm...Christin e Pelosi, huh? Didn't Nancy Pelosi just say that people don't want the DP to make any changes?

Ash, Galindez, Reich: THIS is the DP I left: The DP has no interest beyond staying in office & continuing to accept bribes to go along with whatever the MIC, the pharmaceuticals , the fossil fuel industry, & Wall Street are willing to pay them to do/not do.

They haven't admitted, & won't admit, that they utterly misread--maybe deliberately, maybe just stupidly--the frame of mind of the majority of the voters, which is that we want a PROGRESSIVE government, not one in which every advantage & every gain goes to the already super-rich. So they sabotaged Sanders' very effective, successful campaign, derided his enthusiastic supporters, then ran a fraudulent primary so they could anoint Clinton, whom the vast majority of us wanted no more than we wanted Jeb Bush.
 
 
+4 # Patriot 2016-12-14 01:27
Having practically GIVEN the election to Trump & the Repubs, the DP now is a pitiful minority in government, so it sets about recovering by concocting this ridiculous plot, dragging in a FEW of the electors, continuing to urge the American people to regard Russia as some sort of ogre-nation against whom we must defend ourselves & our sacred election system--the most peculiar, convoluted, corrupt system in the world. All this drama & attempted upheaval is because they LOST the election by deserting, then denigrating, the very people who would have voted for the best candidate run by the DP since at LEAST 1960.

There aren't words to describe this idiotic, egotistical, pig-headed, self-serving, pathetically OBVIOUS piece of foolishness. Pelosi, Schumer & their fellow-fools are willing to drive us into a civil war & demolish our relations with Russia, just so Her Highness gets into the WH & vindicates all their sabotage, fraud, & willful, arrogant, greedy, stupidity.
 
 
+4 # Patriot 2016-12-14 02:27
By the way, four of the signators to the Clapper letter are DNC members and superdelegates: Christine Pelosi, Anita Bonds, Stuart Applebaum, Stephanie Miner.

And we're supposed to believe that the DNC or the DP will change direction and suddenly become progressives? In a pig's eye!
 
 
-4 # 201549Air1931 2016-12-14 13:44
This is waaaaaaay past the petty differences of parties...win or lose...pahleez. ..get a grip. ..this is an Atrocity for our nation Democrat Republican Man Woman Child Dog Cat Bird River Ocean Mountain. ..come on...I know you're way way way smarter than your pettiness is displaying at this moment in time. ..
 
 
+3 # anthraxripple 2016-12-14 19:21
Mitch McConnel and the CIA agree with you.
 
 
-4 # 201549Air1931 2016-12-14 13:39
I don't know if I'm pleading groveling or just asking that we just Pause just Pause. ..There should not be a rush to put a Russian Puppet in the Oval Office if we have an inch of a chance to stop this Atrocity to move forward in America. ..The World is Watching Us...we will lose the respect the power the voice we have in the Universe if we proceed. ..we have to show a sense of Decency to the World at Large. ..This is Bigger than just another Election... This is Our Humanity at Stake...
 
 
+2 # anthraxripple 2016-12-14 19:20
What do you suggest, other than a coup?

We have no evidence the Russians did anything other than embarrass Clinton.

Is Clinton (the CIA puppet) preferable?
 
 
-3 # ericlipps 2016-12-15 21:34
Quoting anthraxripple:
What do you suggest, other than a coup?

We have no evidence the Russians did anything other than embarrass Clinton.

Is Clinton (the CIA puppet) preferable?


(1) And we never will have evidence regarding the Russians unless there's an investigation, which would displease a lot of folks here.

(2) Speaking of evidence, where's yours that Hillary Clinton is a "CIA puppet"?
 

THE NEW STREAMLINED RSN LOGIN PROCESS: Register once, then login and you are ready to comment. All you need is a Username and a Password of your choosing and you are free to comment whenever you like! Welcome to the Reader Supported News community.

RSNRSN