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Van Buren writes: "There is an attempt underway for a government to take control of our election process and throw the election to Hillary Clinton. It is not the Russian government. Mark this day - it is when we came to understand that the American government decided to elect a president."

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton checks her phone on October 18, 2011. (photo: Kevin Lamarque/Reuters)
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton checks her phone on October 18, 2011. (photo: Kevin Lamarque/Reuters)


A Government Is Seizing Control of Our Election Process, and It Is Not the Russians

By Peter Van Buren, We Meant Well

09 October 16

 

here is an attempt underway for a government to take control of our election process and throw the election to Hillary Clinton. It is not the Russian government. Mark this day it is when we came to understand that the American government decided to elect a president.

(Note: I understand in the minds of the mass media the most important issue in America today is Trump’s crude remarks, but there are indeed real things to be concerned about otherwise.)

Here’s how:

  • Two days before the second presidential debate, the government of the United States officially accused Russia of a hacking campaign aimed at interfering in the U.S. election. In a joint statement, absent any specifics or technical details, the Department of Homeland Security and the Director of National Intelligence stated “the recent [hacked email] disclosures… are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts… based on the scope and sensitivity of these efforts, only Russia’s senior-most officials could have authorized these activities.”

  • The statement goes on to detail how only Democratic servers were attacked, meaning the American government is claiming that Russia is trying to throw the election to Donald Trump, plain and simple. It is left unsaid why the Russians would risk cyberwar with the United States to do this, as many have suggested Trump is a neocon in spirit whose loose finger will be on the nuclear button from day one. Clinton is much more of a political realist, comfortable with the business-as-usual of the past eight years that has gone in Russia’s favor in the Ukraine and Syria. She in fact seems like the stable known known, always a preference.

  • Though the first “Russian” hacks were reported in July, it is only 48 hours before the second presidential debate that the statement was released. It could easily have been held until Monday, there is no national security urgency for this to come out Friday. However, with the timing, Trump, essentially tied with Clinton in the polls, will now spend much of the debate defending himself. Since the statement includes no details, only accusations, it is hard to see how anyone could defend themselves. It would be near-impossible for Trump to come out ahead Sunday night; this is a near-coup.

  • Despite the certainty with which the U.S. government has accused Russia of trying to influence the election by hacking into secured email servers, the FBI maintains there is no evidence the Russians or anyone else accessed Clinton unsecured, unencrypted email server laden with actual classified materials, including during Clinton’s first trip to Moscow when she sent and received encrypted email over the Internet and WiFi.

  • In the first presidential debate, Hillary Clinton broadly speculated that Donald Trump had paid no taxes. Days later, several pages of Trump’s tax returns, documents that had been sought unsuccessfully by the media for over a year, arrive at the New York Times, who front pages a story. In the Vice Presidential debate which followed, Trump’s running mate spent time on the defensive defending his boss’ deductions.

  • Clinton sent and received classified material on an unsecured, classified server. That violated the most basic rule of information security. She lied about it. She deleted emails and “lost” both the majority of her devices and many, many emails. The FBI and the Department of Justice, ahead of the Democratic nominating convention, found she violated no law. The Department of Justice granted broad immunity to key Clinton staffers, and allowed two of them to destroy their devices. No further investigation will thus be possible.

  • The State Department aided and abetted Clinton for over four years in hiding her private server, and avoiding her responsibilities under the Freedom of Information Act and the Federal Records Act. Only under court order has the Department stopped slow-walking its “review” process to release emails publically. There has been no investigation.

  • Emails released show a tangle of interests among State Department decisions, the Clinton Foundation and access to Hillary as Secretary of State (“pay for play”). Clinton sought Pentagon and State Department contracts for Chelsea’s friend. There has been no investigation.

  • The State Department and White House coordinated to “crush” Clinton’s email coverage.

If you can add it up any other way than direct interference by the White House, the State Department, the Department of Justice, the FBI and the intelligence community, it would be interesting to hear how that works. The comments are open to make a benign case for these actions.


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Comments   

A note of caution regarding our comment sections:

For months a stream of media reports have warned of coordinated propaganda efforts targeting political websites based in the U.S., particularly in the run-up to the 2016 presidential election.

We too were alarmed at the patterns we were, and still are, seeing. It is clear that the provocateurs are far more savvy, disciplined, and purposeful than anything we have ever experienced before.

It is also clear that we still have elements of the same activity in our article discussion forums at this time.

We have hosted and encouraged reader expression since the turn of the century. The comments of our readers are the most vibrant, best-used interactive feature at Reader Supported News. Accordingly, we are strongly resistant to interrupting those services.

It is, however, important to note that in all likelihood hardened operatives are attempting to shape the dialog our community seeks to engage in.

Adapt and overcome.

Marc Ash
Founder, Reader Supported News

 
+51 # guomashi 2016-10-09 12:52
Bingo!
Mr. van Buren is my new hero journalist.
Why not build in the whole 'covering up Hillary's lies about her speeches with some more sex talk' angle?
Doesn't matter, these politics are as dirty as it gets, and Obama is just as filthy as the rest in that regard.

IN the collapse of empire, every move that is made seems like a good idea at the time. Right now I am sure those involved in this collusion imagine that the ends justify the means, that nothing could be as bad as a Trump presidency.

History repeats itself, and we get a lying war monger as a president, instead of an infantile adolescent groper.

Whatever party wins the presidency this time around will ruin itself.
 
 
+33 # A_Har 2016-10-09 17:48
Unfortunately, it will probably ruin us all. And Hillary has so many MSM journalist advocates:

EXCLUSIVE: New Email Leak Reveals Clinton Campaign’s Cozy Press Relationship
https://theintercept.com/2016/10/09/exclusive-new-email-leak-reveals-clinton-campaigns-cozy-press-relationship/


Oct. 9 2016, 8:47 a.m.

Quote:
Internal strategy documents and emails among Clinton staffers shed light on friendly and highly useful relationships between the campaign and various members of the U.S. media, as well as the campaign’s strategies for manipulating those relationships.

The emails were provided to The Intercept by the source identifying himself as Guccifer 2.0, who was reportedly responsible for prior significant hacks, including one that targeted the Democratic National Committee and resulted in the resignations of its top four officials. On Friday, Obama administration officials claimed that Russia’s “senior-most officials” were responsible for that hack and others, although they provided no evidence for that assertion.

As these internal documents demonstrate, a central component of the Clinton campaign strategy is ensuring that journalists they believe are favorable to Clinton are tasked to report the stories the campaign wants circulated.
Included in the article is a long list of media reporters from the MSM.
 
 
+58 # grandlakeguy 2016-10-09 19:13
Good article, it is a start but what about the fact that the Democratic primary was dirty and we are all victims of the election theft that made Horrible Hillary the Hawk the "candidate"?
Bernie Sanders was overwhelmingly embraced by the American people and we all should be looking forward to electing him next month!

HILLARY CLINTON IS NO MORE THE LEGITIMATE NOMINEE...

THAN

GEORGE W BUSH WAS A LEGITIMATE PRESIDENT!
 
 
-28 # Robbee 2016-10-09 23:09
Quoting grandlakeguy:
HILLARY CLINTON IS NO MORE THE LEGITIMATE NOMINEE...

THAN

GEORGE W BUSH WAS A LEGITIMATE PRESIDENT!

- trump and jill ran up a hill
to fetch a presidency
trump fell down
and broke his crown
and jill came bumbling after

- glug, you self-appointed litmus-test of progress - you are only progressive compared to some
 
 
-16 # Robbee 2016-10-09 23:20
accuses - # grandlakeguy 2016-04-25 15:59
So you think that I am a stealth Green supporter wanting to see a Republican victory?

- funny - that's what blob suddenly admits
# Billy Bob 2016-10-09 19:28
Because I'm a Democrat, I hope Hillary loses to Donald by 1 vote (MINE - which will be cast for Jill Stein).

I hope it's the Democratic Party that loses, so it can pick up the pieces and watch the Republican Party eat itself to death.
 
 
+12 # Anonymot 2016-10-10 06:08
That should be HEARTLESS HILLARY HAWK. She's solid steel until she sees money - then she's stealy.
 
 
+18 # Billy Bob 2016-10-09 19:28
"Whatever party wins the presidency this time around will ruin itself."

EXACTLY.

Because I'm a Democrat, I hope Hillary loses to Donald by 1 vote (MINE - which will be cast for Jill Stein).

I hope it's the Democratic Party that loses, so it can pick up the pieces and watch the Republican Party eat itself to death.
 
 
+7 # RMDC 2016-10-10 08:15
BB. I think you have the right approach. A trump win will deconstruct the republicans. A demo loss will begin the purge of the demo party of the Clinton cancer. The demos will have to return to their leftist base when they see large numbers going Green.

So vote Green. Let Trump win. Trump is the political equivalent of a "disruptive technology." We are always told disruptive technologies are good for ossified industries. The central regime in DC is ossified. The good thing about 2016 is that everything is being disrupted -- unless of course if Hillary wins. Then the corrupt regime solidifies its control.
 
 
+5 # Billy Bob 2016-10-11 19:55
I agree almost completely.

The only fault I find in your extremely well-worded comment is that I don't think of Hillary as status quo. I think she's another maniac who'll try to move everything even farther to the right. Her corruption is beyond any Democrat I've ever seen. She's in Bush/Cheney territory.

I really liked your "disruptive technology" logic. I never thought of it in those terms, but they make perfect sense.
 
 
+31 # rural oregon progressive 2016-10-09 23:35
But then, if you remember accurately, we are nothing but a bunch of Hillary Haters and conspiracy theorists. Nothing that we write is fact or even circumstantial- evidence based.... We are supposed to believe that the DNC's actions did nothing to undermine Bernie's probable win. We are expected to accept election fraud in the primary. We are expected to believe that Bill Clinton's "accidental visitation" with the attorney general in Phoenix had nothing whatsoever to do with possible prosecution of Hillary. And finally, we are expected to believe that the Russians are the evil players in this sham. And yes... Regardless of actual vote tallies (just like the primaries), Hillary will win! The Deep State is alive and well and will get what it wants... as always.

Thank you Mr. Van Buren, and thank you RSN for actually putting his article on your site.
 
 
0 # treerapper 2016-10-15 06:09
THE BEST WAY TO THANK RSN FOR THE JOURNALISM THEY CONNECT US TO IS TO "SEND MONEY!!!!!!!"

If you are visiting this site and enjoy what you read, you should make a contribution - it's only fair. Those that visit all the time and don't step up to the plate are the same as the 1 per centers who want all the services but don't want to pay for them.
 
 
+15 # wrknight 2016-10-10 09:13
I wish people would stop accusing the government of doing this or doing that and learn to distinguish between government (an institution), elected officials (real live people aka politicians) who run it and civil servants (also real live people) who basically do what the elected officials tell them to do.

Government DOESN'T DO ANYTHING. PEOPLE DO THINGS. When bad things happen it's people who do them, not government. The above diatribe about government doing this and government doing that isn't worth the time required to read it.

So don't fault government, fault the people who run it, i.e., the elected officials who, by the way, were elected by American voters.

PS Message to author: You want to be of service? Tell us who the bad guys are so we can kick ass.
 
 
-40 # babaregi 2016-10-09 13:51
Who has seized control of political dialogue? (You, the cool guys!)

Check your privilege!

The Tyranny of Social Justice Warriors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3z6IZdeZYA
 
 
-3 # guomashi 2016-10-09 14:16
Dumb video.

The problem is real, and it is a direct outgrowth of feminist academicism which as part of its dogma explicitly demands first a discussion of the investigator rather than the object of investigation.

However, the diatribe quickly devolves into partisan posturing.
 
 
+19 # CL38 2016-10-09 23:38
guomashi:

feminists are responsible? sounds like a white male republican.
 
 
-2 # guomashi 2016-10-10 06:25
Quoting CL38:
guomashi:

feminists are responsible? sounds like a white male republican.


No it does not.
You should read the literature before you fall into mindless sloganeering.
It is an explicit aesthetic of research in the literature.
 
 
+25 # grandlakeguy 2016-10-10 00:06
Election theft has nothing to do with "political posturing"!
The only thing that makes us a free people is the ability to choose and elect our representatives.
That is the principle on which our country was founded when the colonial patriots rebelled against "taxation without representation".
We have lost that right to representation now that our elections are fraudulent.
 
 
+2 # Cassandra2012 2016-10-10 15:00
Quoting guomashi:
Dumb video.

The problem is real, and it is a direct outgrowth of feminist academicism which as part of its dogma explicitly demands first a discussion of the investigator rather than the object of investigation.

However, the diatribe quickly devolves into partisan posturing.



Wah wah wah wah, 'mommies' are persecuting us good wittle boys..... wah wah wah wah...
DO you have any idea how silly and paranoid you sound?
 
 
+2 # CL38 2016-10-09 23:37
always posting what????
 
 
-24 # babaregi 2016-10-09 14:27
guomashi;

Not an argument, how is it dumb?

Jonathan Haidt gives a TED talk and critiques the Conservatives as well:

https://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind?language=en

The problem is bigger than feminist dogma, although, I agree, that is part of it.

Possible origins:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9Wsb4qBckU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8zJZDRwmEg
 
 
+22 # guomashi 2016-10-09 16:13
It's dumb to presume that by giving students a spanking you will improve anything. In case you weren't around at that time, that's pretty much what Reagan did. It made him very popular and destroyed the country.

I could go on, but essentially the problem is that in exalting the student over the object of study structural problems emerge in how knowledge is acquired and transmitted.

On the other hand, retrenchement is not possible either. How many centuries of study of history have we had without one iota of knowledge accumulating about African Americans and their contributions and place in that history?

Etc.
 
 
+38 # Ralph 2016-10-09 14:41
Thanks to modern technology, communications of any kind are no longer secure. This poses a serious problem for corporate fascist criminals and they are all singing the same tune. The crimes exposed mean absolutely nothing and your average person should ignore the criminality and corruption in the US government. What is important is the fact that Russians are attacking the security of the US. This Orwellian tap dance is laughable beyond belief. The DNC becoming the biggest purveyor of this lie. Just when you think the GOP is lowest of slime, the DNC snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

As for trying to couch Clinton as a stable Mabel, that was knee slapping funny and the author should put down the vodka bottle and step away from the keyboard.
 
 
+43 # Radscal 2016-10-09 16:26
Yes. Most of the article was spot on, but coming from the premise that HRC is "stable" and that Russia has been the big winner for the past 8 years because of Ukraine and Syria, the author almost lost me before I got through to the good stuff.

To be sure, Russia has prevented the worst possible scenarios in those two countries, but I've no doubt that if they had their way, there never would have been regime change and war brought to either.
 
 
+47 # RMDC 2016-10-09 14:51
This article is spot on, though i would point to the deep state rather than the govdrnment. The anglo american elites -- what Carroll Quigley, bill clinton's mentor, named the AAE, anglo american elite -- have hijacked the government and they want Hillary in the white house as their agent. Trump is a protest candidate and they are rubbing him out.
 
 
+34 # Anonymot 2016-10-09 17:41
You got that absolutely right.Hillary and Bill became Deep State members when Bill was elected and he was advised how much money he would make. The New American World Order he touts is pure Deep State. The high shine in her eyes is Deep State bucks à go-go.
 
 
+30 # lorenbliss 2016-10-09 22:37
@RMDC: Though you and are usually in agreement, I have to quibble with your distinction between "government" and "deep state."

What subjugates us is capitalist governance -- fascism (actually a uniquely USian form of Nazism). It is government wholly owned by, and therefore utterly obedient to, a cabal of mostly anonymous plutocrats rather than to a Hitler, Mussolini, Franco or Pinochet.

The "deep state" -- the USian security apparatus -- is merely the first part of government the cabal took over after the failure of the 1934 Bankers Plot.

This was in compliance with Hitler's dictum the path to power is infiltration of the most powerful organs of the state.

As soon as "the deep state" was under capitalist control, the rest was relatively easy: the postwar purge of progressives; the decade of murders; the 2000 Bush Coup; the Reichstag Fire of 9/11; Obama elected by "change we can believe in" (the most malicious Big Lie in our history); we the people thus reduced to irremediable hopelessness. All else follows "as the night the day."

And anyone who is surprised by this has been asleep, a la Rip Van Winkle, at least since 22 November 1963.

Such is capitalist governance: absolute power and unlimited profit for the One Percent and their Ruling Class vassals (the so-called "deep state" included); total subjugation for all the rest of us.

Thus too the USian future: the planet as one vast neo-plantation, with all of us in the 99 Percent reduced to neo-slavery.
 
 
+10 # CL38 2016-10-09 23:41
It all goes back to November 22nd, 63.
 
 
0 # wrknight 2016-10-10 09:33
It goes back way before that. Like hundreds of thousands of years. The lust for power and what people will do to acquire it are as old as the human race. It's quite likely a defect in the human genome that's independent of environmental effects.
 
 
+16 # Anonymot 2016-10-10 02:21
I refer to it as Democratic Fascism, because everyone votes, but the Deep State only provides a choice between Deep State people. The reason they're erasing Trump is that he's an outsider, a renegade they can't control. His total inappropriatene ss for the presidency is beside the point. Hillary is the official choice.
 
 
0 # Cassandra2012 2016-10-10 15:05
ROFL Trump is a protest candidate ? He is posing as a protest candidate, but do not be fooled --- it is only Trump that Trump cares about --- he is a classic example of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Essentially a socio-path!
 
 
+41 # Helen Marshall 2016-10-09 17:52
And the president instructed the African American community that they MUST vote for Clinton.

Can't see HRC as a stable factor in the relationship with Russia, particularly given Bill's role in breaking the Bush I promises to Gorbachev and expanding NATO into the Warsaw Pact countries, while refusing to allow Russia to have a closer association with NATO. No way will she overturn his legacy of confrontation even when it results in gangster states like Kosovo...
 
 
+31 # Radscal 2016-10-09 18:59
Yeah, I was pretty shocked when Obama basically called blacks who won't vote for HRC race traitors.
 
 
+7 # CL38 2016-10-09 23:42
where and when did he do this?
 
 
+17 # Radscal 2016-10-10 01:38
Speaking to the Congressional Black Caucus on September 17.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/17/politics/obama-black-congressional-caucus/index.html
 
 
+14 # RLF 2016-10-10 05:23
Obama is just another lawyer from Harvard with all of the secret societies and old boy connections. He is more white than I am!
 
 
+13 # RMDC 2016-10-10 08:21
Mainly, Obama is CIA. Race does not matter.
 
 
-2 # Cassandra2012 2016-10-10 15:07
Hmm. sounds like a lot of jealous resentment ... whining usually doesn't help.
 
 
-21 # m s 57 2016-10-09 18:23
These reflexively anti-American arguments conclude by defending, even supporting, Trump and Putin. If that's the world you hope to embrace, if those are the people you would consciously choose to lead you, the vote for them. Just don't complain when President Trump and President Putin get together, the first wondering "if we have nuclear weapons, why can't we use them," and the second issuing veiled threats to use them.
 
 
+23 # Helen Marshall 2016-10-09 18:34
Eh? Where do you see in this article any support for Trump or call to vote for him? Really tiresome reading these Clinton troll posts.
 
 
+7 # pros54 2016-10-09 19:41
And your argument is pro-American? most likely in your make believe world.
 
 
+10 # rural oregon progressive 2016-10-10 02:52
Quoting m s 57:
These reflexively anti-American arguments conclude by defending, even supporting, Trump and Putin. If that's the world you hope to embrace, if those are the people you would consciously choose to lead you, the vote for them. Just don't complain when President Trump and President Putin get together, the first wondering "if we have nuclear weapons, why can't we use them," and the second issuing veiled threats to use them.


But you ignore the crux of the article - that Hillary will win regardless... So you will likely never get to your supposed Trump-Putin marriage...
 
 
+6 # RLF 2016-10-10 05:25
Go ahead ms57...just throw up your hands and scream "I'm scared, I'm scared!"
 
 
+15 # Shorey13 2016-10-09 19:21
goumashi nailed it in the first comment: "the end of empire...."

Our putative democracy is a sick joke. I am now composing a letter to various editors suggesting that we need a "None Of The
Above" option, so that we can just start over. I would have no problem with an election between Bernie and Pence, who would represent the real American electorate. Care to join me?
 
 
-14 # logical1 2016-10-09 20:07
Trump has imploded his own election. Trump himself says we do not know if Russia is hacking our servers. Peter says Russia is hacking to help Hillary get elected. Peter has no facts and is using his speculations to condemn Clinton and insinuate complicity with the Russians.
Actually, it appears Russia would love to have Trump as President, kissing up to Putin and not knowing what to do when Russia thumbs their nose at him.
Do you think Kim Jong Il will listen to Trump more than any other president. It will take diplomacy and effort of many countries and the U.N. to back off North Korea's actions.
Trump is an unsavory apologist that tries to excuse his actions by saying others are worse.
Then judges others as if he did nothing wrong.
 
 
+22 # desertprogressive 2016-10-09 20:28
"Peter says Russia is hacking to help Hillary get elected. Peter has no facts and is using his speculations to condemn Clinton and insinuate complicity with the Russians."

Peter is NOT saying the Russians were involved in hacking at all! He criticized the Department of Homeland Security and the Director of National Intelligence for falsely implying that they may have. He went on to state "It is left unsaid why the Russians would risk cyberwar with the United States...".
 
 
+20 # heraldmage 2016-10-10 00:33
Actually, GWBush is responsible for N Korea. Bill Clinton negotiated a food for the DPRK permanently sealing their nuclear reactors. The DPRK kept their end of the treaty under supervision their reactors were filled with cement and then video monitored 24/7. When it came to the US fulfillment of the US part of the treaty GW refused saying he didn't have to comply with something negotiated by his predecessor.
 
 
+6 # RMDC 2016-10-10 08:23
Herald -- you are right. It is important to remember this. N. KOREA is always willing to cooperate whe treated fairly.
 
 
-2 # RNLDaWy 2016-10-09 20:58
Incumbency always has an advantage as they are already 'In' Office and would like their party to maintain control. that would be the nature of all political whomever is in there. Couple things are not manipulable .. facts that Trump beat the other Repuke candidates and has been officially appointed by those on his side .. the fact that that guy is a fucking idiot can't be manipulated. He is a bad candidate and has and continues to prove to be. Trump is the only candidate to get away with non disclosure of income in the history of presidential elections .. why wouldn't they use that hole card? Obama and Hillary have been tough on Russia see the sanctions post the Ukranian invasion by Putin and his Russian Mafioso .. so far the correct candidate of all those we can choose from is winning .. and on valid and not 'contrived' grounds as this author would like us to believe ...
 
 
+17 # heraldmage 2016-10-10 00:15
It hard to make the case that Trump should disclose his income tax so we can see who he does business with, when Clinton receives dark money from Superpacs where donors, amounts & ROI aren't disclosed.
Russia invading Crimea is a lie. Russia's hacking US to interfere in US elections not one shred of evidence was presented. They believe the American people are so dumb and brainwashed they will believe anything. After all they have continually lied us into every war since the War of 1812. Now they are using a fabricated Russian invasion of Crimea, fictitious Russia hacking of US files & lies & omissions about Syria & Aleppo to brainwash us into supporting another troops on the ground war like Iraq, based on misinformation.
Time to get rid of both ruling parties and vote for Dr. Stein & the Green Party. Isn't it time that US taxes were spent to take care of the USA & all its people, rather than enhancing the pockets of the 1%, while our sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, aunts & uncles serving in the US military & innocent people of the targeted nations are killed & maimed.
 
 
+11 # tomwalker8 2016-10-09 21:19
"I understand in the minds of the mass media the most important issue in America today is Trump’s crude remarks..."

It disturbs me that Donald's recently revealed crude remarks have garnered so much more attention than his many other dangerous falsities. Here's a recap:
On undocumented aliens: "They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists."
On torture "we must do “the unthinkable”
Regarding 911, claims that "he witnessed Muslims in Manhattan and Jersey City, New Jersey celebrating the deadly 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center."
Trump on his business genius: http://www.newsweek.com/2016/08/12/donald-trumps-business-failures-election-2016-486091.html (btw - I worked as a consultant on his Atlantic City business wreckage aftermath).
 
 
-14 # Robbee 2016-10-09 22:34
at long last self-fulfilling prophet outs self as rump trojan! - # Billy Bob 2016-10-09 19:28
Because I'm a Democrat, I hope Hillary loses to Donald by 1 vote (MINE - which will be cast for Jill Stein).
I hope it's the Democratic Party that loses, so it can pick up the pieces and watch the Republican Party eat itself to death.

or else just ruins hundreds of millions of lives as a matter of personal pique
lie! - # Billy Bob 2016-08-02 16:56
The Democratic AND Republican Parties (at the national level at least) BOTH sit on the right side of every issue.

1) equal pay for women!
2) paid family medical leave at birth!
3) raising minimum wage to $15/hr!
4) path to citizenship for illegals!
5) civil rights for oppressed minorities - the poor! the middle class! blacks! latinos! lgbt! muslims! and union members!
6) civil rights for an oppressed majority - those who want gun and ammo sales restricted!
7) iran treaty against nuclear proliferation!
8) sweeping reform of shadow banking, including jailing banksters and protecting whistle-blowers ! - while in the senate together, bernie and hill voted together 93% of the time! - on this all the time!
9) gradually expand the ACA to cover everyone! - plus add public option! - plus expand medicare!
10) civil rights for an oppressed majority - choice! women’s reproductive rights!
11) fund planned parenthood!
12) fund free public ed through college!
13) feed the poor!
14) dump TPP!
 
 
-12 # Robbee 2016-10-09 22:44
blob, part 2

- for us folks hill has fought for, all her life, there is no serious worry she will stop fighting!

our most prolific liar returns with another crock! - # Billy Bob 2016-07-26 09:09
a vote for anyone other than Trump would be like voting for Clinton

- here's what's true!

a conservative's vote for anyone other than Trump would be like voting for Clinton

- and the converse is likewise true!

a progressive's vote for anyone other than Clinton would be like voting for Trump

- what else does blob lie about?

lie! - # Billy Bob 2016-06-07 13:02
Yes they should (try Obama and Hillary for torture) but Hillary Clinton is planning to continue their legacy much more aggressively than Obama

lie! # Billy Bob 2016-05-25 12:45
If (warren) isn't sure, or picks Clinton, we'll know the whole "fighting Wall Street" thing is just a ruse.

lie! - # Billy Bob 2016-05-22 09:48
Clinton's voters are Republicans

signed in blood! - says - # Billy Bob 2016-05-09 12:00
The actual left, on the other hand, has had enough and won't vote for another Clinton - PERIOD ... If Hitlery manages to get the nomination anyway, vote for Sanders in the general election.

lie! - the actual left would vote for hill over rump every day!

the fake-left, as in GOP trolls! would visit rsn every day! - fighting to sew dissent! - fighting to stop progressives from voting hill! - at any cost! - even a rump presidency! - blob is a GOP troll!
 
 
+1 # tarantilla 2016-10-09 22:44
This is why I keep telling you people to vote for Trump!! This guy is a saint compared to Hillary.
 
 
-2 # Cassandra2012 2016-10-10 15:11
Quoting tarantilla:
This is why I keep telling you people to vote for Trump!! This guy is a saint compared to Hillary.

Hee hee HEe HEE HEE HE
 
 
-11 # Robbee 2016-10-09 22:47
blob, part 3

still in denial! after all these years! proudly! - says - # Billy Bob 2016-05-16 18:15
I - DID - NOT - VOTE - FOR - CHENEY

silly blob? - and yet! somehow you got him anyway! - didn't you?

HAVE YOU WORKED IT OUT YET? HOW?

here's how it works!

1st, leader of the rat pack says - # pat riot 2016-05-15 20:58
I will NOT vote for Hillary Clinton. The calamity that follows will not be my fault, nor the fault of my vote

- so says king herod! - who washes his hands! of a rump presidency!

what will we do if bernie does not win the dem's nod? quit voting? riot? throw away our vote by voting 3rd party? or by writing-in bernie?

jerk-offs admire you udealists - that you never compromise anything? - except that, by not voting dem, you never accomplish anything useful either? do you? - forgotten cheney already? in what? 10 seconds?

bernie says hill would make an "infinitely better" prez than any gop slime?

bernie thinks he's starting a "political revolution"? - hah! lots of us cannot summon the revolutionary discipline, or solidarity, to compromise "our values" enough to follow his lead!

blob, you are not part of bernie's movement! - you are barely smart enough to break away and start your own movement! - however smart that is? - that's all!
 
 
-12 # Robbee 2016-10-09 22:48
blob, part 4

lie! about hill promoting public option! - # Billy Bob 2016-07-09 21:44
Too little, too late.

- those were ted kennedy's infamous last words, 50 years ago, when he turned down nixon's ACA because he thought he could get single-payer!

blob! it will only be to late for public option! once we already have single-payer!

our most prolific liar? asks - # Billy Blob 2016-07-04 22:00
Why do you quote me so much?

1) one of your lies came up when king-herod rat-king patriot furnished - as rotten intellectual basis! one of your lies! that YOU DID NOT VOTE FOR CHENEY! - as though that alone absolved you of responsibility for 8 years of bush2cheney hell! - when votes like yours - for nader in florida! - were a critical, “but for” cause of us suffering thru 8 years of bush2cheney!

2) then merlin attacked warren! reminding the false intellectual basis! your lie! that warren does not truly hate wall street!

blob! your lies are so prolific! - and some so patently false! that your lies backup on you! - it's hard to go anywhere without stepping in some of your propaganda!

- next time try staying away long enough that pat and merl stop bringing your brand sick propaganda to our doorstep? okay?

one thing a rump trojan, like blob, NEVER says here! - our next prez may name 4 new justices to scotus - hill can flip the court to a progressive majority - one that could stay in place for 30 or 40 years

- listen to bernie! go dem!
 
 
+2 # Billy Bob 2016-10-11 20:01
Robbee,

Has it ever occurred to you that you write more about me, than I actually write?

For every 10 words I write, you write 100 words about it, and still manage to take everything I say out of context, only cherry picking phrases you feel are particularly "damning".

Just an observation.

Feel free to write melodramatic platitudes about this comment for the next few months too!

It's very flattering.
 
 
+18 # Patriot 2016-10-09 22:58
Indeed, Robbee: Out ofa ll that jibberish, one fact: The Dem & Repub partis BOTH sit on the right side of every issue. Unfortunately, the 99% are interested in the LEFT side.

That's why so many of us--considerabl y more than 2-some percent, I suspect--will vote for Jill Stein, who definitely and unequivocably stands for the LEFTWARD side of every one of those issues.
 
 
-7 # Robbee 2016-10-10 09:26
Quoting Patriot:
many of us--considerably more than 2-some percent, I suspect--will vote for Jill Stein, who definitely and unequivocably stands for the LEFTWARD side of every one of those issues.

- giving credit where credit is due! thanks for noting that jillie is progressive too!
 
 
+11 # candida 2016-10-09 23:07
Has anyone noticed librarian1984's conspicuous absence from recent commentaries about the election. Usually omnipresent, I wonder what happened. Where are you librarian1984? I hope you are well!
 
 
-6 # Robbee 2016-10-10 09:37
Quoting candida:
Has anyone noticed librarian1984's conspicuous absence from recent commentaries about the election. Usually omnipresent, I wonder what happened. Where are you librarian1984? I hope you are well!

- lib spent the past months painting herself into a corner - i miss her too - when the paint dries, as we all pray it will - may she return to us!
 
 
-10 # Robbee 2016-10-09 23:39
coincidence? - Two days before the second presidential debate, the government of the United States officially accused Russia of a hacking campaign aimed at interfering in the U.S. election.

actually there's a pattern -

a month ago wikileaks leaks hacked dnc docs! and announces more docs to follow!

then a couple days before both debates- timed for max impact - wikileaks releases more dnc hack docs

if wikileaks patter holds - there will be more docs leaked a couple days before the last debate?

then perhaps a couple days before the election?

who times these leaks? if not russia? someone tries to influence our election and elect rump! who?
 
 
-10 # Robbee 2016-10-09 23:47
Quoting Robbee:
coincidence? - Two days before the second presidential debate, the government of the United States officially accused Russia of a hacking campaign aimed at interfering in the U.S. election.

actually there's a pattern -

a month ago wikileaks leaks hacked dnc docs! and announces more docs to follow!

then a couple days before both debates- timed for max impact - wikileaks releases more dnc hack docs

if wikileaks patter holds - there will be more docs leaked a couple days before the last debate?

then perhaps a couple days before the election?

who times these leaks? if not russia? someone tries to influence our election and elect rump! who?

- it appears we - including Peter Van Buren - are all being played by someone who wants rump elected
 
 
+19 # janie1893 2016-10-09 23:41
Is the whole human race devolving or is it only Americans?
 
 
+16 # heraldmage 2016-10-10 00:19
Unfortunately, it's just the Americans. That's what happens when the news is controlled and censored by the government & corporate owners.
 
 
+11 # guomashi 2016-10-10 06:30
Agreed, it's just americans. I received the following from a friend in Australia just this morning:

"Well, I don't know what the situation is there, but the people that I meet here are very clear sighted. Well, there are a few simple women who think that Hillary is doing marvels for the prestige of women."
 
 
+19 # heraldmage 2016-10-09 23:45
It's time to turn to Dr. Jill Stein & the Green Party(GP. Stop listening to the extortion that a vote for the GP or Libertarian (Lib) is a vote for whoever you don't like. Neither Trump or Clinton are a good choice for the US & peace. Listen to Democracy Now on Monday for Dr. Stein response to 2nd debate questions. They inserted Dr Stein's response into the previous debates. It was well done & allows you to compare the response of 3 Presidential candidates.
The Lib is another choice but what they don't tell you unless you read their platform is they don't believe in government: big business & the market is their answer. If you vote Libertarian plan to take care of your parents & grandparents living & medical expenses because Social Security & Medicare will be gone. To pay for all your children's education & healthcare because public funded education & healthcare will be eliminated, along with disaster aid, the weather & hurricane service & agencies that assure your food, medicines & workplace are safe & not polluted.
The big difference between the GP & the Dems & GOP is no donations from big business & billionaires and a belief in Peace not fabricated reasons for wars to profit the 1%.
The ruling parties are setting us up for another war based on lies this time with Russia. They both have huge campaign debt to repay & like GWBush the only way to repay it is war & occupation of nations that posed no threat to the USA. Vote Green instead!
 
 
-11 # Robbee 2016-10-10 09:08
Quoting heraldmage:
It's time to turn to Dr. Jill Stein & the Green Party(GP.

- GP as in GIP?

you gip us with jillie?

- why do some keep flogging dead horse jill?

if jill had wanted to test her positions against those of other progressives, she would have run in the dem primaries against o'malley, bernie and hill - then voters would have gotten to know her name and her positions

the fact that jill remains almost unknown is directly due to one, and only one, person - jill

if rump wins, those who vote "jillie" will deny they had anything to do with it - that's who you are
 
 
-10 # Karlus58 2016-10-10 10:47
I'm with you on this. You're spot on. These principled fools on this site, well, is plain ridiculous. And they're certainly feeding on each other. What was once a decent place to read good information has become a place of kooks.
 
 
-6 # Salburger 2016-10-10 03:55
If RSN is gong to go down this idiotic path I'm going to have to reconsider my monthly donations.
 
 
-6 # Karlus58 2016-10-10 10:48
Me too! It's getting hard to bear.
 
 
-7 # Robbee 2016-10-10 09:49
says record broken
thrice i've spoken
i deny
what i inspire - # Patriot 2016-08-27 17:48
One more time, Robbee: Opposing Clinton, supporting Stein, supporting Sanders IS NOT SUPPORTING TRUMP!!

pat lets fly the usual lies! - # Patriot 2016-08-24 02:13
JoeBlow & all other Clinton rollovers, opposing Clinton & supporting Stein ARE NOT supporting Trump. One more time: Opposing Clinton & supporting Stein ARE NOT supporting Trump. Have you got that yet? What do we have to do to pound that into your heads?
Stop wasting breath calling any of us Trump supporters.

lie! - # Patriot 2016-06-15 13:40
Refusing to vote for Clinton IS NOT supporting Trump

- well, if it's not supporting rump? and if it cannot help rump get elected? - exactly what is it?

we have alot of rump trojans here! - and pat! - with conservative name patriot! - with conservative political slant! - gets full attention! - you made the list! - king rat! - here’s how! -

still in denial! after all these years! proudly! - says - # Billy Bob 2016-05-16 18:15
"... I - DID - NOT - VOTE - FOR - CHENEY..."

- and yet! somehow you got cheney anyway! - didn't you?

HAVE YOU WORKED IT OUT YET? - HOW? - here’s how it works! -

1st, leader of the rat pack says - # pat riot 2016-05-15 20:58
"I will NOT vote for Hillary ... The calamity that follows will not be my fault, nor the fault of my vote."

- so says king herod! - who washes hands! of a rump presidency!
 
 
-6 # Robbee 2016-10-10 09:50
king rat, part 2

what will we do since bernie did not win the dem's nod? quit voting? riot? throw away our vote by voting 3rd party? or by writing-in bernie?

jerk-offs admire udealists - who never compromise anything? - except that, by not voting dem, you never accomplish anything useful either? do you? forgotten cheney already? in what? 10 seconds?

bernie says hill would make an "infinitely better" prez than any gop slime?

bernie says he's starting a "political revolution"? - hah!

lots of us cannot summon revolutionary discipline, or solidarity, to compromise "our values" enough to follow bernie's lead!

pat, you are not part of bernie's movement! - you are barely smart enough to work for rump! - however smart that is? - that's all!

pat, i heard your same speech before! - always from the most repulsive conservative! - you know? the kind who calls himself "patriot"? - or 'USADUDE"? - WRAPPING IN OUR FLAG?

yes! i always hear it so fluently expressed? - like pulled off some conservative website? - as - # Patriot 2016-06-15 13:40
Refusing to vote for Clinton IS NOT supporting Trump ... If you do not agree with my vote, I will fight to the death to defend your right to disagree.

- why do i always feel that the "patriot"? would be the very last person? - after the disabled and children? - to fight for any of my rights?

of course i know you puff yourself up and call yourself "patriot"? - i guess i have heard it too much? -
 
 
-6 # Robbee 2016-10-10 09:50
king rat, part 3

- i trust "patriot" less than hill! - nearly less than rump! - who is bottom dregs! - if you trust rump you should promptly shower! and scrub hard!

"patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel!" - but if you were not a rump trojan! you would know this!

false flag support for warren! - # pat riot 2016-05-24 12:36
"RSN, please ask more of your contributors to follow Senator Warren's lead"

here's where warren leads that king rat CAN NEVER FOLLOW! -

Elizabeth Warren ✔@elizabethforma

I'm going to fight my heart out to make sure @realDonaldTrum p’s toxic stew of hatred & insecurity never reaches the White House. - 3 May 2016

living in the past! says! - # Patriot 2016-07-17 12:30
you're preaching to the wrong crowd. RSN declared its support for Senator Sanders months ago
We will NOT vote for Clinton

- pay no attention to pat riot! village idiot here on rsn! - bernie! reich! warren! scott galindez! marc ash, steve weissman! and frank rich! declare that now that hill has clinched the dem party nomination - they will vote dem!

when riot notes that rsn supported bernie for prez - that was a footnote in history - before hill clinched the dem party nomination!

pat may speak for more than pat! - but only for those who declare that pat speaks for them! - so far no one! - also note that pat speaks rump trojan! - as in wants us to ignore hill's likely opponent! - and wants us to ignore hill's unwavering fight for women and minorities!
 
 
-6 # Robbee 2016-10-10 09:51
king rat, part 4

finally note that bernie thrills that hill promises to do as bernie earlier promised to do as prez - to make reversing "citizens united" a test for SCOTUS appointees - and to kick-start the process to amend our constitution - to assure no future SCOTUS efsup our nation so bad ever again!

those progressives who feel that rump can solve all our nation's problems better than hill? can help make that happen - don't have to do a thing - just sit home on election day or else vote stein - the spoiler candidate! - just like 2.9 million folks did in 2000, by voting nader! - since then greens have never cast more than 900,000 votes! - 'bout time for a do over?

# Patriot 2016-08-03 16:14
The Green Party, as of today, is on the ballot in 25 states and has applications pending in several more

- when it comes to running more progressives against lesser progressives - other than in dem primaries - greens only slow "our revolution" - bernie's group - down!

when more progressives run against lesser progressives - other than in dem primaries - that tactic results in conservatives winning seats

are greens really that stupid? - yes! - it's who they are! full of themselves!

THE BIG IDEA:
By David Weigel
A specter is haunting the Green Party – the specter of Ralph Nader.

This morning, as America’s fourth-largest party gathers in Houston to nominate a presidential ticket,
 
 
-6 # Robbee 2016-10-10 09:52
king rat, part 5

it’s struggling to capture the progressive voters who supported Bernie Sanders. Jill Stein, the party’s likely nominee, was rebuffed when she asked Sanders to head the party, and rebuffed again when she asked popular Sanders surrogate Nina Turner to be her running mate.

Why is progressive frustration with Hillary Clinton not boosting the Greens? It’s because sixteen years ago, Green Party nominee Ralph Nader won 2.9 million votes, and at least 2 million of those voters came to blame themselves for the victory of George W. Bush over Al Gore. (The combined vote for Nader and Green candidates since 2000 has never exceeded 900,000.)

The 2000 election was one of the founding traumas of the modern center-left. It’s no accident that Stein polls best with voters under 30; liberal voters who remember 2000 are likely to associate “voting your conscience” with giving away the presidency.

That’s most evident in the list of Nader supporters from 2000 who have never come back to the Green Party. Nader's running mate that year, Winona LaDuke, endorsed John Kerry in 2004 and then disengaged from politics. Michael Moore, who introduced Nader at some of his rallies, later apologized to Al Gore and has endorsed Democrats for president ever since.
 
 
-7 # Robbee 2016-10-10 09:53
king rat, part 6

“There were three claims made by Nader in 2000,” said Charles Lenchner, who voted for Nader that year but went on to found the grassroots group People for Bernie. “The first was that there was no substantial difference between Al Gore and George W. Bush. The second was that the campaign would be a boost to local organizing. The third was that the Green Party could emerge as a viable force in our politics. And none of that came to pass.”

- so, you see - every reasonable rsn reader admits that inside america life with prez hill is better - so, except for our crowd that fears hill starting war but gives rump its free pass - what could go wrong? how bad could he be? - going green is efdup!

go bernie! and go dem!
 
 
+8 # heraldmage 2016-10-10 17:24
Well the Dem troll had his say, now lets look at reality!
After 4yrs of GH Bush, 8 years of Clinton, 8yrs of GW Bush & 8 yrs of Obama 8 years (12 GOP + 16 Dem) we are still at war in the Middle East + we are funding civil wars & using drones to assassinate those who opposes US policy. The violent quest to give control the planets natural resources to the 1% & their corporate identity has caused the national debt to skyrocketed. Meanwhile US infrastructure is crumbling with many cities look like war zone. Poverty, infant mortality, homelessness & death from curable diseases have significantly increased. Only the 1% have profited.
Over the last 30 years of GOP & Dem rule none of the campaign promises to improve the lives of the American people have come to pass. Our rights Constitutional rights have been limited.
We have given both parties ample opportunity to keep their promises but they have continually let us down so why should we give them another chance? The Dems obstructed democracy to assure the peoples candidate lost. Why should we believe this time will be any different?
Its time for a voters revolution. After all how much worse could it be. Just imagine what could be done if we had a President & Congress that supported the needs of all the people not just the 1%.
The time to rally around Dr Stein & the GP is almost upon us. Don't let the Dems & GOP scare you away from doing what's right for our nation.
 
 
-2 # Karlus58 2016-10-10 10:42
Good grief Marc Ash! Your informative site has become full of principled kooks! Just like the Trumpsters!
 
 
+6 # DrD 2016-10-11 08:50
Karlus58 - if you disagree with what's posted, why not dispute with facts if you have them?

Marc Ash I'm making an additional contribution (above my monthly) to make sure this forum stays open. Seems the Hillary supporters would like to see these opposing views shut out.
 

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