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Simpich writes: "A recent ruling in a San Diego election integrity lawsuit should set a new trend in fighting voter suppression. Many citizens are concerned about the accuracy of voting machines, but feel powerless to challenge their findings. The court’s ruling upholds the viability of the '1% manual tally,' a method for citizens to test the machine results by comparing them to the paper ballot tally."

Southern California Shredding truck. (photo: Andrea Beth Damsky)
Southern California Shredding truck. (photo: Andrea Beth Damsky)


California Court Upholds a Method to Detect Election Fraud

By Bill Simpich, Reader Supported News

03 August 16

 

recent ruling in a San Diego election integrity lawsuit should set a new trend in fighting voter suppression. Many citizens are concerned about the accuracy of voting machines, but feel powerless to challenge their findings. The court’s ruling upholds the viability of the “1% manual tally,” a method for citizens to test the machine results by comparing them to the paper ballot tally.

Ray Lutz is the director of Citizens Oversight, a nonprofit “dedicated to enabling citizens to provide needed oversight to our democracy.” When he hasn’t been leading the fight to decommission the San Onofre nuclear power plant, Lutz has put significant time into tracking the disastrous 2016 primary election in California.

Lutz noticed that the California election code required that 1% of “all ballots cast” must undergo a random audit comparing the ballots to the electronic tally.

He then noticed something else – that the San Diego registrar, Michael Vu, was not including the provisional ballots or the late-arriving VBMs (votes by mail) in his tally. This was about 37% of the entire vote – a discrepency of 285,000 votes that were not audited.

Lutz and Citizens Oversight filed suit days after the primary due to Vu’s failure to randomly sample the votes to check for fraud. Lutz’s attorney, Alan Geraci, emphasized that “the intention of the elections code is obviously to create an audit so that the people can know that the election has been done properly.” The county argued that seven other California counties were doing it the same way as Vu.

Michael Vu has a bad track record for election integrity. In 2004 Vu was the registrar in Cuyahoga County, Ohio, a swing state in the George W. Bush/John Kerry presidential race. Official vote counts gave the state – and thus the presidency – to George W. Bush by about 118,000 votes out of 5.5 million counted. A statewide recount, paid for by the Green and Libertarian parties, was marred in 87 of the state’s 88 counties by illegalities that led to felony convictions for two of Vu’s staff. During that election two female employees working under Vu illegally chose sample precincts for recounting ballots where they knew the count would yield a predetermined result.

This rendered the recount meaningless, according to Bob Fikrakis, an attorney, political science professor, and expert in election voting controversies. The workers were fired, indicted, and convicted. In 2007, shortly after the convictions, Vu was forced to resign by Cuyahoga County. Vu immediately moved to California and landed a job in San Diego weeks later.

Judge Joel Wohlfeil wasn’t impressed by Vu’s performance this time around either. The judge ruled that although his ruling was “moot” as the primary had been certified by the secretary of state, he would address the issues raised in the suit. He held that the registrar had the duty to follow the law and that no excuses were available.

Citizens Oversight will continue to execute legal remedies to get San Diego to either complete the rest of the audit encompassing the 37% of the ballots cast that were left out, restart the 1% manual tally audit from the start, or seek a complete 100% audit of the election. Similar action may take place in other parts of the state.

The group is also looking for volunteers to assist in oversight teams in the largest California counties. It is important to ensure that the 1% tally is properly conducted throughout California in the general election – and to make sure that the rights of election observers to view every aspect of the count is zealously protected. Throughout the state, hundreds of observers were denied the right to watch the count – they were separated by glass barriers from seeing what was going on and were frequently barred from taking photographs. This practice of suppression of observers resulted in the nullification of Austria’s general election on July 1.

In San Diego, the observers were able to see that election officials were modifying ballots with the use of white-out, with no checks or balances to the procedure. This YouTube video shows that Bernie Sanders’ name was whited-out in this process, with no good explanation as to why.

During one press conference on June 28, this video shows a giant shredding truck that was parked right in front of the registrar’s office, and which drove away when citizens started taking photographs.

Raymond Lutz. (photo: Reader Supported News)
Raymond Lutz. (photo: Reader Supported News)

Vu said no materials were removed from the registrar’s office. But why in the world would any registrar allow a shredding truck to come to the elections office in the midst of a count?

These concerns with electronic voting equipment are not theoretical. but extend throughout the United States. A research paper on the subject of possible election fraud has been recently released. One of the collaborators was Fritz Schueren, former president of the American Statistical Association and a statistics professor at George Washington University. Schueren said, “As a statistician, I find the results of the 2016 primary election unusual. In fact, I found the patterns unexpected [and possibly even] suspicious.”

Ray Lutz and Citizens Oversight have provided to all of us an invaluable tool to ensure election integrity.



Bill Simpich is an attorney in the San Francisco Bay Area who knows it doesn’t have to be like this.

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+33 # nice2bgreat 2016-08-03 11:17
.
All in all, it's just another brick in the wall.
.
 
 
-65 # rocback 2016-08-03 11:51
standard exit polling conducted in the U.S. can be very inaccurate and systematically biased for a number of reasons, including:


o Differential nonresponse, in which the supporters of one candidate are likelier to participate than those of another candidate. Exit polls have limited means to correct for nonresponse, since they can weight only by visually identifiable characteristics . Hispanic origin, income and education, for instance, are left out.

o Cluster effects, which happen when the precincts selected aren’t representative of the overall population. This is a very big danger in state exit polls, which include only a small number of precincts. As a result, exit polls have a larger margin of error than an ordinary poll of similar size. These precincts are selected to have the right balance of Democratic and Republican precincts, which isn’t so helpful in a primary.

o Absentee voters aren’t included at all in states where they represent less than 20 percent or so of the vote.

As the New York Times put it, "[N]o one who studies the exit polls believes that they can be used as an indicator of fraud in the way the conspiracy theorists do."
 
 
+53 # Dust 2016-08-03 12:09
All very true, although relatively easy issues to be corrected, provided the people conducting the exit polls are actually interested in an accurate assessment.

The article, however, is discussing a paper count to verify or constrain the digital count.
 
 
+17 # MsAnnaNOLA 2016-08-03 14:23
Folks. Also see this excellent series at blackboxvoting. org. Fraction Magic - votes are being counted as fractions instead of whole numbers and these machines are in use across the country. This capability is a feature, not a bug. It is built into the machines from the factory. No hacking necessary. Just place the appropriate settings on the machine to begin with.

http://blackboxvoting.org/fraction-magic-1/
 
 
+46 # grandlakeguy 2016-08-03 15:02
European countries that bought into the electronic voting machine rage in the early 2000s have thrown those unreliable hackable systems in the garbage and returned to the only secure system:
Hand counted paper ballots with the counting process open to all observers.

Any process that is not completely transparent invites election theft.
Computerized voting is 100% unverifiable!
 
 
+22 # grandlakeguy 2016-08-03 15:54
Come on Dust, don't you know that rocback always tries to steer the conversation away from facts that he cannot dispute?

You are absolutely right that this article is about the whiting out of Bernie votes and if I was not against the death penalty I would love to see that ROV receive that sentence for this outrage!
 
 
+17 # Dust 2016-08-03 17:44
I'm against the death penalty too, but more and more, for political deceit and environmental lies, I am tempted to promote it as a consequence for those sorts of infractions.
 
 
+22 # grandlakeguy 2016-08-03 18:19
This is certainly high treason and if we publicly hung a few of these traitors perhaps it would end this sort of activity.
I would start with the people at Diebold and the other black box vendors who made election theft an industry.
(Life imprisonment would be adequate as well)
 
 
-19 # ericlipps 2016-08-03 20:14
Quoting grandlakeguy:
This is certainly high treason and if we publicly hung a few of these traitors perhaps it would end this sort of activity.
I would start with the people at Diebold and the other black box vendors who made election theft an industry.
(Life imprisonment would be adequate as well)

Do you even know what "high treason" is?

It's treason in time of war. (The same acts, committed in peacetime, would not qualify as "high" treason.)

Stop tossing around charges you don't understand.
 
 
+18 # grandlakeguy 2016-08-03 21:34
This is WAR against the American people.

GW Bush stole the election in 2000 and we have been at war full time ever since our nation's criminal aggression in Iraq in 2003!

We are at war.
 
 
+17 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2016-08-03 23:33
Gee ericlipps. grandlakeguy isn’t the only person to misuse the word treason this year. Most Americans think “treason” is any act that betrays one’s country. You know full well that what he meant was that people who knowingly interfere with the election process here in the United States are just as bad as those who are guilty of "levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.”

What bothers me about your response is that you are more concerned with GLG using the right phrase (which is, BTW, “high crimes”) than castigating those who committed election fraud.
 
 
# Guest 2016-08-03 22:31
This comment has been deleted by Administrator
 
 
+42 # grandlakeguy 2016-08-03 13:42
Of course "whiting out" Bernie votes is ok by you.
Right rocback?

As I have said many times:

HILLARY CLINTON IS NO MORE THE LEGITIMATE NOMINEE…

THAN

GEORGE W BUSH WAS A LEGITIMATE PRESIDENT!
 
 
+23 # Radscal 2016-08-03 17:08
And one of the observers estimated that up to 2/3 of the Presidential votes in the boxes she observed being counted had been whited out!

And of course, the whited-out box was the Bernie Sanders one in almost all cases.
 
 
-19 # ericlipps 2016-08-03 20:18
Quoting Radscal:
And one of the observers estimated that up to 2/3 of the Presidential votes in the boxes she observed being counted had been whited out!

And of course, the whited-out box was the Bernie Sanders one in almost all cases.

That sounds like an urban legend to me, or else anti-Clinton propaganda (which I suspect some folks here would be happy to concoct if they thought it would make a difference). Who was this unnamed "observer"?
 
 
+15 # Radscal 2016-08-03 20:22
Watch the video to see some of the whited-out ballots.

You can also learn the names of the people, and even contact them if you wish to call them liars to their faces.
 
 
+7 # nice2bgreat 2016-08-03 21:18
Quoting ericlipps:
Quoting Radscal:
And one of the observers estimated that up to 2/3 of the Presidential votes in the boxes she observed being counted had been whited out!

And of course, the whited-out box was the Bernie Sanders one in almost all cases.

That sounds like an urban legend to me, or else anti-Clinton propaganda (which I suspect some folks here would be happy to concoct if they thought it would make a difference). Who was this unnamed "observer"?

So, ericlipps,

When it's one-quarter or one-half of ballots whited out, it's no problem?

But claim the high end, and whoa there!

I'm afraid I'm gonna have to take issue with that 2/3 number you're citin' there. You drop that down to 1/2 and I'ma gonna go my merry little way... I (ericlipps) don't have a problem with election fraud, but don't you go citin' the high end; it makes it sound like I should care.

And If'n I should care, then I'll be lookin' the other way -- like all the other times.

I don't mind not caring or being a hypocrite; I just don't like it bein' obvious.
.
 
 
-15 # ericlipps 2016-08-03 20:09
Saying something many times doesn't make it true.
 
 
+22 # jimmyjames 2016-08-03 14:38
rocback, your arguments are right from the Republican playbook. I suppose you believe that voter ID laws are also quite okay. Even though they have been proven to disenfranchise the poor, the elderly, students, and people of color.

And in spite of what you or the NYT says (and we know that NYT is a staunch Hillary supporter), exit polls have been proven to be quite accurate and are used all over the world in to check on elections. What exit polls cannot not predict is the election fraud going on behind the scenes.
 
 
-22 # rocback 2016-08-03 15:19
Bad straw man, jimmyjames. Try again. Every Democrat is worried about voter ID laws that clearly attempt to disenfranchise blacks, students, poor people and every other Democratic group that favors them. Republicans have been doing that since Jim Crow.

Unfortunately for you, that has nothing to do with your delusional belief that anything like that was done in the Democratic primary.

I know you don't like facts that interfere with your narrative and so you engage in ad hominem attacks against the N Y Times so you can avoid its premise that exit polling is very misleading especially in attempting to prove election fraud.

Ironically, you should be voting for Hillary to counter the Republican cheating and attempt to discourage Democratic voting. 33 States are controlled by Republicans and their Sec of States who are in charge of elections. So, knowing that, why would you vote for anyone other than Hillary?
 
 
+14 # jimmyjames 2016-08-03 15:49
Why? Because she sucks! That's why....But if I was a Republican, she would definitely have my vote!
 
 
+10 # Skyelav 2016-08-03 17:44
Sorry it's no longer left vs right this year.
 
 
+4 # Skyelav 2016-08-03 17:43
Or they can in hindsight or hindcount...
 
 
+18 # nice2bgreat 2016-08-03 15:00
Quoting rocback:
standard exit polling conducted in the U.S. can be very inaccurate and systematically biased for a number of reasons...

Of course.

Surprise, surprise.

He who is wrong about everything believes in announced election results, rather than exit-polling.

Of all the polls to disbelieve, actual representation of an actual election is not the one.

While it is true that any statistical analysis must take as many considerations as possible to ensure resulting conclusions; and as any sample, there is still a margin of error.

The idea that because 1 fucking idiot, Nate Cohn, at the disreputable New York Times, says, "... everyone who knows anything about early exit polls knows that they’re not great", ...

with all the evidence pointing to fraudulant election results -- in this case, the whiting out of voter choices, ...

while exit polls are used as the international standard for determining fraudulant elections...

Exit polls are the only polls that people ought to take seriously; granted, the methodology must be correct.

Any fool who says otherwise is exactly that, a fool.

To be skeptical is healthy. But to simply blanket exit polling as questionable, deferring to announced results in the face of contradictory exit polling, with condescending arrogance, is folly; and worse, it's at others' expense.

They should be ashamed for it.

There should be more deference to checks against unfairness and corruption, not contempt.
.
 
 
# Guest 2016-08-03 17:41
This comment has been deleted by Administrator
 
 
-12 # ericlipps 2016-08-03 20:07
Not surprising that you've been thumb-bombed, since it's an article of faith among Bernouts that the exit polls prove--PROVE, they'll tell you!--that "Bernie really won" in a number of states where he, well, lost. And so what if your points about these polls' weaknesses are legitimate? To these people ***BERNIE*** WON and was ROBBED by the sinister Clinton Machine which even now is scheming to wipe out all life on the planet Mongo, er, that is, Earth, by starting World War III.

Let's be clear: exit polls aren't worthless, but by themselves they can't be taken as proof of anything.
 
 
+35 # grandlakeguy 2016-08-03 13:41
San Diego Registrar of Voters Michael Vu deserves a ten year prison sentence for his active role in election theft!
(And NOT in a "country club" prison either. San Quentin perhaps?)

I wonder how much the DNC pays for this service… is it so much per vote or a flat fee per election?
 
 
+15 # Radscal 2016-08-03 17:21
And note that the last election his people were sent to prison over was the Republican win in Ohio.

Ah. Who says there's no bipartisanship?
 
 
+15 # grandlakeguy 2016-08-03 17:32
Yes Radscal and he destroyed the evidence in Ohio despite a court order to retain everything.
I do not understand why he is not already in jail.

Does anyone want to start a Change.org petition seeking an indictment of this criminal scumbag who was whiting out Bernie votes?

I think that the petition should be created by the witnesses to that crime!
 
 
+24 # grandlakeguy 2016-08-03 18:52
We all owe a tremendous debt of gratitude to the heros in media (online of course as the mainstream media refuses to properly cover this topic) who have been researching this treason for years and attempting to expose the reality of election theft to the general public.

THANK YOU…
Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman
at www.freepress.org

Brad Friedman
at www.bradblog.org

Greg Palast
at www.gregpalast.com

Mark Crispin Miller
at www.markcrispinmiller.com

Bev. Harris
at www.blackboxvoting.org


They are all patriots and American heroes!

I urge you all to visit their websites and learn about this theft of our freedom!
 
 
+14 # grandlakeguy 2016-08-03 18:25
When the founders of this nation decided to risk their lives and challenge the British empire their rallying cry was:
"NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION."
They fought and died for the right to representation as has every American soldier in the two and a half centuries since the American Revolution.

The theft, repression or manipulation of our votes is a betrayal of the ideal of representative governance and is nothing short of treason.

Anyone involved in such activity or any public official that has taken office by virtue of this crime has no business calling himself or herself an American.

ELECTION THEFT IS HIGH TREASON!
 
 
-13 # rocback 2016-08-04 08:14
Yes, it is. Your problem is there was none in the Democratic primary.

Every claim has been debunked.
 
 
+7 # grandlakeguy 2016-08-04 12:53
The claims and evidence seem to keep growing all the time.
The debunking is only by dishonest Hillbots such as you who choose to ignore the growing scandal.
 
 
+43 # jimmyjames 2016-08-03 13:33
I guess what bothers me most, is the general acceptance by Hillary supporters of election fraud. I suppose had the shoe been on the other foot, and it was Hillary voters who were not allowed to vote or not have their vote counted, they would be up in arms. But in a true democracy, who benefits or doesn't benefit is not the point. The point is that voter suppression, election fraud, and/or not counting legitimate votes is morally wrong AND illegal. I could cite several examples of this in the Democratic primaries, but anyone who has been paying attention is already acutely aware of it.

Here is more info on the lawsuit taht was filed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3znJvbHE_o
 
 
+36 # grandlakeguy 2016-08-03 13:44
WITHOUT OPEN AND HONEST ELECTIONS WE ARE NO LONGER A FREE PEOPLE.
 
 
+31 # jimmyjames 2016-08-03 13:54
Quoting grandlakeguy:
WITHOUT OPEN AND HONEST ELECTIONS WE ARE NO LONGER A FREE PEOPLE.

And I doubt we've been a real democracy for some time now. If it hadn't been for the internet and social media, we'd still be in the dark about how "un-free" we really are. Unfortunately, with people like rocback out there, who accept fraud, we still have a ways to go.
 
 
+20 # DD1946 2016-08-03 14:13
I think this is the main thing I came away from this primary election with. Dems are quite willing to have collusion if it gives the answer they are happy with. Dems aren't a bit better than Repubs and that is why I am not a Dem anymore.
 
 
-33 # ronjazz 2016-08-03 14:33
Quoting DD1946:
I think this is the main thing I came away from this primary election with. Dems are quite willing to have collusion if it gives the answer they are happy with. Dems aren't a bit better than Repubs and that is why I am not a Dem anymore.


Well, neither was Bernie, until it was convenient. All of yoou bernie-suckers have ignored the facts, and even Bernie notes that whatever irregularities there may have been in the DNC primary, there were still not enough votes to get him the nom. It's that simple, whiners.
 
 
+23 # grandlakeguy 2016-08-03 17:35
What Bernie is and has been for his entire career is a REAL DEMOCRAT of the stature of FDR!

What Bernie is not and has never been is a Republican masquerading as a Democrat like the Goldwater Girl shill the corporate masters have placed into nomination by subverting our elections!
 
 
-26 # rocback 2016-08-03 15:26
Every loser whines about voter rigging. Trump is already whining about it.
 
 
-21 # rocback 2016-08-03 15:31
What bothers me is that even when your own candidate admits even if all the complaints of voter problems and the acts of the DNC put together were true, Hillary won by enough votes that it would not have mattered. Here is a direct quote form Mrs. Sanders this week:

" He lost this election by more votes than can be explained by the things that people are concerned about — the voting irregularities, or the DNC. If it was closer, we might have done something differently, but there is no choice. It's not like we're stopping because we want to. We're stopping because those are the rules of the game. That's democracy. There is a winner and a loser in every election."

Time to put that tired old whine about vote rigging to bed if you have half the class of your candidate.
 
 
+17 # grandlakeguy 2016-08-03 17:40
I hope that you are proud of your hero's glorious win courtesy of cheating!

If your candidate had an ounce of integrity she would insist on honest new elections.
Sorry…I forgot who I was talking about for a moment.
 
 
-15 # ericlipps 2016-08-03 20:23
Quoting grandlakeguy:
I hope that you are proud of your hero's glorious win courtesy of cheating!

If your candidate had an ounce of integrity she would insist on honest new elections.
Sorry…I forgot who I was talking about for a moment.

And of course, if she did insist on them, and got them, and then won, you'd doubtless insist on ANOTHER do-over.
 
 
0 # WYThomas 2016-08-06 17:09
VQuoting rocback:
What bothers me is that even when your own candidate admits even if all the complaints of voter problems and the acts of the DNC put together were true, Hillary won by enough votes that it would not have mattered. Here is a direct quote form Mrs. Sanders this week:

" He lost this election by more votes than can be explained by the things that people are concerned about — the voting irregularities, or the DNC. If it was closer, we might have done something differently, but there is no choice. It's not like we're stopping because we want to. We're stopping because those are the rules of the game. That's democracy. There is a winner and a loser in every election."

Time to put that tired old whine about vote rigging to bed if you have half the class of your candidate.


Your statement is very well-put, and thanks for quoting Jane Sanders. You're doing quite well at getting under the skin of #grandlakeguy and his ilk. Keep up the good work.
 
 
+9 # librarian1984 2016-08-03 22:37
@ jimmyjames

"What bothers me most is the general acceptance .. of election fraud"

Why NOT accept election fraud? They accept every lie she says, despite evidence to the contrary. They are willfully ignorant, though I do not know why. The majority probably aren't aware of most of the things we talk about here because they don't care. They are overwhelmed by their everyday lives. Just the way TPTB want it.

Then again, look at HRC's unfavorables. MOST are not taken in, but we hear from the ignorant ones most loudly.

Reason talks. Ignorance shouts.
 
 
+29 # grandlakeguy 2016-08-03 13:50
The theft of our elections is HIGH TREASON and anyone involved belongs behind bars for a very very very long time!

I have been ranting about this issue on the marquee of the Grand Lake Theater since the day the supreme court gang of 5 traitors stopped the counting of our votes in Dec. 2000.There is a collection of several hundred of my statements over the years at:

www.flickr.com/photos/grand-lake/

How much longer will the American people and our courts tolerate this?
 
 
+13 # guomashi 2016-08-03 14:17
Great signs. Thanks for reminding everyone of their civic duty.
Is the organ still being played at that theater?
I will be in the neighborhood later this month. Might be nice to hear it again.
 
 
+11 # grandlakeguy 2016-08-03 17:41
Yes, the Mighty Wurlitzer is played every Friday and Saturday evenings before the two main shows in Theater one.
 
 
+17 # djnova50 2016-08-03 14:28
I went to look at the marguee photos. There are a lot of them and I didn't read them all; but, my favorite is the one that reads something like the schools should be given all the money that they need let the military hold bake sales to buy their bombs.
 
 
-29 # ronjazz 2016-08-03 14:34
Quoting grandlakeguy:
The theft of our elections is HIGH TREASON and anyone involved belongs behind bars for a very very very long time!

I have been ranting about this issue on the marquee of the Grand Lake Theater since the day the supreme court gang of 5 traitors stopped the counting of our votes in Dec. 2000.There is a collection of several hundred of my statements over the years at:

www.flickr.com/photos/grand-lake/

How much longer will the American people and our courts tolerate this?


Well, your hundreds of whines and tantrums aren't going to make a bit of difference.
 
 
+27 # grandlakeguy 2016-08-03 13:59
Joseph Stalin famously said:

"TRUE POWER LIES NOT WITH THOSE WHO CAST THE VOTES BUT WITH THOSE WHO COUNT THE VOTES!"

The Republicans learned the truth of this several decades ago and now the fake Democratic candidate (Republican Goldwater Girl) Hillary Clinton has learned well from the "success" of George W Bush and countless other Republicans who owe their positions in our government to election theft.

If the next round of WikiLeaks email releases proves this…what will we Americans do then?

To accept the theft of our elections is to accept the elimination of our freedoms!
 
 
+14 # guomashi 2016-08-03 14:20
Quoting grandlakeguy:

If the next round of WikiLeaks email releases proves this…what will we Americans do then?

To accept the theft of our elections is to accept the elimination of our freedoms!


There's another famous Stalin quote:
"You have people, you have problems.
No people, no problems!"

That's probably where we are headed with the $Hill monster and her little war games...
 
 
-23 # ronjazz 2016-08-03 14:35
Quoting guomashi:
Quoting grandlakeguy:

If the next round of WikiLeaks email releases proves this…what will we Americans do then?

To accept the theft of our elections is to accept the elimination of our freedoms!


There's another famous Stalin quote:
"You have people, you have problems.
No people, no problems!"

That's probably where we are headed with the $Hill monster and her little war games...


You sound more like Stalin than Stalin did. What a totally ridiculous and unfounded thing to say. Trump needs you, Real Americans don't.
 
 
+15 # MsAnnaNOLA 2016-08-03 14:25
More importantly what will Democrats do? Will we demand she withdraw her nomination? Will we simply vote for another candidate?

I am not waiting for the shoe to drop I am already choosing my other candidate.
 
 
# Guest 2016-08-03 14:36
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+17 # Ted 2016-08-03 14:49
Seems you haven't yet noticed that clinton IS the right.
 
 
+20 # markovchhaney 2016-08-03 15:05
#Ronjazz: 1) How do you distinguish between the Clintons and the "Right" at this point? What difference there is appears to be mostly in the rhetorical arena. Surface distinctions that arouse the respective bases, but ultimately have very little to do with money, power, where the bodies are buried, and the conduct of foreign policy.

2) Pointing out serious problems is hardly "whining," as you and other Hillary supporters state in lame attempts to dismiss them.

3) Disagreement with your analysis isn't tantamount to attempted suicide; rather, it's evidence of a different analysis of the issues and the best approaches to solving them. So screaming insulting names at the rest of us may satisfy your emotional needs, but contributes exactly nothing to this or any other community.
 
 
-18 # rocback 2016-08-03 16:19
If you can't tell the difference between Hillarys announced policies and the Republican Partys which are almost exactly like your candidate then you are too ignorant to vote.
 
 
+17 # Ted 2016-08-03 16:45
Quoting rocback:
If you can't tell the difference between Hillarys announced policies and the Republican Partys which are almost exactly like your candidate then you are too ignorant to vote.


Announced policies and actions are two entirely different things.

If you want to know what a hillary presidency promises, review her history.

But I warn you, it isn't pretty.
 
 
+18 # grandlakeguy 2016-08-03 17:47
Yes, do not forget to Google :
Hillary Clinton cluster bomb vote

That is a demonstration of her true compassion for children and their families!
 
 
+12 # Radscal 2016-08-03 18:46
Please remember that the goog is the enemy.

I encourage everyone to use a search engine that does not track and keep our searches and provide them to the government or any corporation willing to pay the devil.

I use duckduckgo.com

But there are others, too.
 
 
+11 # Radscal 2016-08-03 18:47
Please remember that the goog is the enemy.

I encourage everyone to use a search engine that does not track and keep our searches and provide them to the government or any corporation willing to pay the devil.

I use duckduckgo.com

But there are others, too.

Even using their trademarked name as a verb normalizes them and their policies.
 
 
+3 # markovchhaney 2016-08-05 06:39
You go into court with that degree of illiteracy? Heaven help your clients.
 
 
+9 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2016-08-03 23:57
Quoting ronjazz:
Proving only your stupidity and pettiness... Are you idiots all suicidal?
As Glenn Greenwald pointed out, you are not likely to change people's minds by calling them stupid or racist when they express frustration and anger over actual wrongs suffered. To accomplish that you need to acknowledge their complaints and provide solutions.

But since it seems to make you feel good, keep up the attacks and thereby guarantee votes for Jill Stein.
 
 
+19 # djnova50 2016-08-03 14:37
Certainly, it would not surprise me if the H. Clinton campaign participated in election fraud.

Neither faction of the two-party duopoly deserves to win in November. I am putting my time and money into Jill Stein's campaign.
 
 
+18 # Ted 2016-08-03 14:52
And I'm supporting and voting for Stein also.

The bottom line is that if enough of us do the same, Stein, and WE, will win.

Jill2016.com/plan
 
 
-13 # ericlipps 2016-08-03 20:24
Quoting djnova50:
Certainly, it would not surprise me if the H. Clinton campaign participated in election fraud.

Neither faction of the two-party duopoly deserves to win in November. I am putting my time and money into Jill Stein's campaign.

Your choice. I've got better ways to waste my time.
 
 
+19 # Ted 2016-08-03 14:48
Well, thats ONE state anyway.

I guess there's a reason INTELLIGENT countries have banned voting computers.
 
 
+16 # jimmyjames 2016-08-03 15:29
I got my Jill Stein lawn sign today and it is proudly in my front yard (next to my Bernie sign)!
 
 
+10 # Ted 2016-08-03 17:29
Yay!

And don't forget to spread the word about the "money-boom" August 5 & 6!

http://jill2016.com/money_boom_donation_page
 
 
-5 # rocback 2016-08-04 08:22
also next to your David Cobb sign, your Ralph Nader sign, and your Cynthia McKinney sign. :-)
 
 
-15 # rocback 2016-08-03 15:34
Jane Sanders:

"He lost this election by more votes than can be explained by the things that people are concerned about — the voting irregularities, or the DNC. If it was closer, we might have done something differently, but there is no choice. It's not like we're stopping because we want to. We're stopping because those are the rules of the game. That's democracy. There is a winner and a loser in every election."
 
 
+14 # jimmyjames 2016-08-03 15:43
Quoting rocback:
Jane Sanders:

"He lost this election by more votes than can be explained by the things that people are concerned about — the voting irregularities, or the DNC. If it was closer, we might have done something differently, but there is no choice. It's not like we're stopping because we want to. We're stopping because those are the rules of the game. That's democracy. There is a winner and a loser in every election."


Yeah, the rules of our so-called democracy is that any election can be stolen with enough money, intent, and know how. A person of high integrity like Bernie Sanders disbelieves that others can be so devious as to steal an election. Guess he got an education this time around from the Hillary camp....
 
 
-12 # rocback 2016-08-03 16:20
She said that this week. :-)
 
 
+13 # jimmyjames 2016-08-03 16:29
Quoting rocback:
She said that this week. :-)

Yeah, "she" says lots of things. Changing her position depending on which way the wind blows. She has been on every side of every issue. She is a pathological liar. Not someone I would ever vote for - ever. She stole the California primary with the help of her supporters like yourself. Lawsuits have been filed and I hope and pray this witch you love so much ends up in prison.
 
 
+14 # grandlakeguy 2016-08-03 17:51
jimmyjames, I think that the "she" that rockbac is referring to above is Jane Sanders who, of course, did indeed make a decent and noble statement regardless of what she and Bernie suspected or knew in their hearts regarding the theft of the primaries by the DNC and their Wall Street Hawk candidate.
I hope that they see this article because the whiting out of votes is a new piece of information that raises the awareness of how widespread the actual theft of the election became.

As far as what you say about HRC above,. I could not agree more!
 
 
+12 # jimmyjames 2016-08-03 19:20
I have to admit that I get so frustrated at what rocback says sometimes that I am not sure what he is saying nor who he is referring to....my apologies to Jane Sanders.....
 
 
+13 # grandlakeguy 2016-08-03 19:43
We must look at rockbac and his cronies as comic relief.
 
 
+11 # librarian1984 2016-08-03 22:49
If only they were funny.
 
 
+12 # kundrol 2016-08-03 23:04
Or even better don't bother to look at all. Don't feed trolls. Starve them out. And report abusive personal attacks.
 
 
+7 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2016-08-04 00:46
Quoting kundrol:
Or even better don't bother to look at all. Don't feed trolls. Starve them out. And report abusive personal attacks.
It would be very nice if those who respect Bernie Sanders' philosophy and ethics could refrain from responding to the handful of Hillary supporters here who never have anything positive to contribute. All they do is push buttons.

As kundrol said, "Don't feed" them. No responses, no thumbs up or down, just nothing. If they come here for interaction, then they'll either stop the endless, one-sided, she-can-do-no-w rong praise of HRC and get real or they can speak to an empty room. That is within our power.
 
 
+9 # librarian1984 2016-08-04 06:10
I have been doing my best to not respond but it would be difficult not to down-vote :-)
 
 
+7 # kundrol 2016-08-04 16:04
I know. lib, but if we really want them gone, this may be the only way. I've been redding them, but never respond to any of their provocations. They are like schoolyard bullies. Best to just walk away. So I'm now determined to just do nothing, not even flame them, as Diane suggests.
 
 
+2 # librarian1984 2016-08-04 17:33
I'll try, but I also use designated thumbs to keep track of what I've already read. If I don't mark them it means I'll probably read them more than once.
 
 
+3 # kundrol 2016-08-04 16:01
Thank you Diane!
 
 
-5 # rocback 2016-08-04 08:24
hatred will do that to you jimmyjames.
 
 
-8 # ericlipps 2016-08-03 20:27
Quoting grandlakeguy:
jimmyjames, I think that the "she" that rockbac is referring to above is Jane Sanders who, of course, did indeed make a decent and noble statement regardless of what she and Bernie suspected or knew in their hearts regarding the theft of the primaries by the DNC and their Wall Street Hawk candidate.
I hope that they see this article because the whiting out of votes is a new piece of information that raises the awareness of how widespread the actual theft of the election became.

As far as what you say about HRC above,. I could not agree more!

People who "know" something "in their hearts" don't "know" it at all.
 
 
+12 # Ted 2016-08-03 17:25
It's in OUR hands. -Jill Stein
 
 
+6 # Skyelav 2016-08-03 17:51
https://richardcharnin.wordpress.com/2016/05/19/the-democratic-primaries-no-more-exit-polls-kentucky-and-oregon-recap/
 
 
+7 # jimmyjames 2016-08-03 19:14
This is a great analysis! Hillary supporters (especially "rocback") should check it out and keep his frigging mouth shut - tight!
 
 
+6 # kundrol 2016-08-03 23:06
Ignore him. If nobody responds to anything he posts, he will soon go away.
 
 
+11 # Bruce Gruber 2016-08-03 18:18
As the Clinton sycophants realize over the next 4-8 years how their "freedoms". opportunities, and "Gold Star" mothers increase as concerns, and as they wonder at the increases of health issues relating to climate, disease, autism, food-related 'difficulties', and injustice related civil unrest becomes more problematic, and as interest rates rise along with food and water and energy prices, they will have to find Russians, or Iranians, or Palestinians, or BlackLivesMatte r, or Chinese, or lazy, unemployed ne'er-do-wells to blame ... because their Goldwater girl will be protecting them from these faux-enemies with the same propaganda machine that is currently churning out "Donald Trump Is the ONLY Devil America Faces".
 
 
-6 # mblockhart 2016-08-03 19:51
This may be a reasonable explanation for the use of white-out.
1) California had a closed primary for President and an open primary for races down ballot. Only registered Democrats could vote for President but everyone could vote down ballot. We may not like that but it is the law now and had to be followed. You don't change in the middle of the election.
2) If people who were not registered Democrats submitted a ballot marking a vote for President and votes down ballot, their vote for President cannot be counted.
3) So that their votes down ballot would be taken and not discarded, just the Presidential vote was marked out before the ballot was run through the machine.
4) We know that lots of the Sanders voters were not registered Democrats. So more of those ballots with an improper vote for President would have been votes for Sanders.

It's a complex messy system, but I can see a rationale for the white-out. That wouldn't be illegal, but throwing out their entire ballot might have been.

The solution would have been for Sanders supporters to be fully informed in time to change their registration to vote in the Democratic Primary because that's where Sanders was running. Perhaps someone dropped the ball there.
 
 
-9 # ericlipps 2016-08-03 20:32
Ah, a voice of reason. I don't know whether you're right, but at least what you say sounds credible.

Now prepare to be thumb-bombed by the folks sitting at their computers (or maybe pecking at their smartphones while driving) frothing at the mouth with fury that anyone would offer an explanation other than fraud for why ****BERNIE**** didn't win in California.
 
 
+6 # jimmyjames 2016-08-03 21:29
Just curious....do you and rocback and ronjazz and lights get paid by the number of thumbs down you receive? If so, rocback was the clear winner today! I love trolls - they are so entertaining!
 
 
-2 # rocback 2016-08-04 08:29
thanks, jimmyjames. I tried to give myself a thumbs down to pad my lead but they wont let me vote on my own post.
 
 
+11 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2016-08-04 01:16
mblockhart is misinformed. In fact, if ANY county followed the "rules" mblockhart is stating, they acted illegally and should be prosecuted.
Part I
Quoting mblockhart:
This may be a reasonable explanation for the use of white-out.
1) California had a closed primary for President and an open primary for races down ballot. Only registered Democrats could vote for President but everyone could vote down ballot. We may not like that but it is the law now and had to be followed. You don't change in the middle of the election.
This is not true. In California, the Republican party had a closed primary; the Democrats had a semi-open primary. You could vote Democratic if you were registered either Democrat or No Party Preference. That was true for President AND down ballot.
Quoting mblockhart:
2) If people who were not registered Democrats submitted a ballot marking a vote for President and votes down ballot, their vote for President cannot be counted.
Untrue. I have NO idea where you got this crap. Read the CA Voter Info Guide, http://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/voter-info/all-voters.htm


Quoting mblockhart:
3) So that their votes down ballot would be taken and not discarded, just the Presidential vote was marked out before the ballot was run through the machine.
Completely false. RTFM.
 
 
+10 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2016-08-04 01:20
Part II
Quoting mblockhart:
4) We know that lots of the Sanders voters were not registered Democrats. So more of those ballots with an improper vote for President would have been votes for Sanders.
EVERY NPP vote for Sanders was counted IF it was on a Dem cross-over ballot. The problem was that not enough people knew that they had to use THAT ballot, not the regular Dem ballot.
Quoting mblockhart:
It's a complex messy system,
True. It’s been designed to artificially support the 2 major parties only.
Quoting mblockhart:
but I can see a rationale for the white-out. That wouldn't be illegal, but throwing out their entire ballot might have been.
Wrong. Again, if an NPP voted on a Dem cross-over ballot, THE WHOLE ballot counted. If they used a Dem ballot, none of the Dem votes counted.
 
 
+6 # kundrol 2016-08-04 16:12
I believe you are right Diane. I live in California and had to reregister Dem to vote for Bernie. I'm now Demexit and voting for Jill Stein in November. The crossover ballot was confusing for many people. Here in Mendocino County we just advised to temporarily register Dem. I'm proud to say that our county was all out for Bernie!
 
 
+12 # pernsey 2016-08-03 21:21
As I suspected...rea lly who we vote for doesnt matter anymore. Who they want to win, thats all that matters. I think if truth be told Sanders should have won by a mile.

Why smooth it all over? Dont we all sound so rational and sane...politics is not rational or sane. Its a crooked business. Have you scene what the GOP rationalizes? The orange Pig, Don the con the tax dodger.

Sorry my opinion is that now in the computer age its all rigged. Who they want to wins...
 
 
+12 # Vardoz 2016-08-03 22:23
Bernie won. He could beat Trump tomorrow. HRC stole the election. We are working to get Jill Stein on the ballot.
 
 
+11 # librarian1984 2016-08-03 22:47
Even if I didn't know anything about Hillary Clinton I could look at the people here who defend her (if that's what you call lying and calling people names and ranting) and know what kind of pol she is, and reject her just on the basis of her followers.
 
 
+3 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2016-08-04 01:24
Quoting librarian1984:
Even if I didn't know anything about Hillary Clinton I could look at the people here who defend her (if that's what you call lying and calling people names and ranting) and know what kind of pol she is, and reject her just on the basis of her followers.
Tempting though that might be, it would not be rational. Every politician attracts kooks and hate-mongers. Judge all candidates on their own records and ignore the noise.
 
 
+8 # librarian1984 2016-08-04 06:14
Fair enough :-)

May I say then that her followers would lead me to question her and take a closer look?
 
 
+4 # cmp 2016-08-04 06:57
Librarian, You are all over it!

Their was a politician who said to all Americans ".. make me do it.."

Then for the first time in our lifetime, (and, I pray not the last) a politician said again to all Americans ".. I 'am calling for a political revolution.. .. I want more people voting.. .. I want more people participating in the.. ..."

For example:

We hear so often about the Supreme Court. .. Well, the Courts are under a vicious attack each and every day, for Corporate Monopoly and Corporate Personhood.

.. Which Candidate would have called on us to be in those court rooms to defend all Americans against this blatant legal fiction? .. And, which Candidate would have said, "I will take care of it. .. You all go back to sleep, now.."

With the Television Act of 1996, the American Psychiatric Association reported that the average American 18 year old has witnessed 40,000 violent murders and over 200,000 violent acts on television. .. But, it was stated in the Communications Act of 1934 "That the broadcast content be deemed good and necessary.."

.. Which Candidate would have told this fact to the American people and said something like "I want your inputs on how we can incorporate more education into your airwaves.."

No, their was a visceral understanding And Yearning, in especially the younger voters, that a real Candidate will talk to all Americans and say "You own it.." .. Not, "Me, Myself and I ... will take care of it."

We are not - used to this.
 
 
+4 # librarian1984 2016-08-04 07:46
Hi, cmp. To me, in the middle of this ridiculous sh!t storm we're facing, one glimmer of hope is the young people who have resoundingly supported Senator Sanders. They are not the angry supporters of Trump. From what I've seen and heard they are intelligent, informed and ethical people who hold the desire and promise of a better future -- if we would get out of their way :-)

I hope they haven't been turned off to political reform and justice by this current debacle -- and indications of a continued revolution seem to suggest they are not. I dearly hope that's true.
 
 
-7 # rocback 2016-08-04 08:36
They haven't been turned off. They are now supporting Hillary.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-cahn/millennial-voters-will-de_b_9995522.html

and this:

https://www.facebook.com/hillsquad/
 
 
+5 # cmp 2016-08-04 23:41
Hey Librarian, You are so right. We have been up against an unfair system of money in politics for far too long. I hope that we can all make a dent in this for their future. This is where I 'am going to start spending more of my time.

I sent you an email. Let me know, you are thinking; as well. (..smile..)
 

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