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Chomsky writes: "As universities move towards a corporate business model, precarity is being imposed by force."

Prof. Noam Chomsky, linguist, philosopher, cognitive scientist and activist. (photo: Va Shiva)
Prof. Noam Chomsky, linguist, philosopher, cognitive scientist and activist. (photo: Va Shiva)


The Death of American Universities

By Noam Chomsky, Jacobin

30 March 15

 

As universities move towards a corporate business model, precarity is being imposed by force.

hat�s part of the business model. It�s the same as hiring temps in industry or what they call �associates� at Walmart, employees that aren�t owed benefits. It�s a part of a corporate business model designed to reduce labor costs and to increase labor servility. When universities become corporatized, as has been happening quite systematically over the last generation as part of the general neoliberal assault on the population, their business model means that what matters is the bottom line.

The effective owners are the trustees (or the legislature, in the case of state universities), and they want to keep costs down and make sure that labor is docile and obedient. The way to do that is, essentially, temps. Just as the hiring of temps has gone way up in the neoliberal period, you�re getting the same phenomenon in the universities.

The idea is to divide society into two groups. One group is sometimes called the �plutonomy� (a term used by Citibank when they were advising their investors on where to invest their funds), the top sector of wealth, globally but concentrated mostly in places like the United States. The other group, the rest of the population, is a �precariat,� living a precarious existence.

This idea is sometimes made quite overt. So when Alan Greenspan was testifying before Congress in 1997 on the marvels of the economy he was running, he said straight out that one of the bases for its economic success was imposing what he called �greater worker insecurity.� If workers are more insecure, that�s very �healthy� for the society, because if workers are insecure they won�t ask for wages, they won�t go on strike, they won�t call for benefits; they�ll serve the masters gladly and passively. And that�s optimal for corporations� economic health.

At the time, everyone regarded Greenspan�s comment as very reasonable, judging by the lack of reaction and the great acclaim he enjoyed. Well, transfer that to the universities: how do you ensure �greater worker insecurity�? Crucially, by not guaranteeing employment, by keeping people hanging on a limb than can be sawed off at any time, so that they�d better shut up, take tiny salaries, and do their work; and if they get the gift of being allowed to serve under miserable conditions for another year, they should welcome it and not ask for any more.

That�s the way you keep societies efficient and healthy from the point of view of the corporations. And as universities move towards a corporate business model, precarity is exactly what is being imposed. And we�ll see more and more of it.

That�s one aspect, but there are other aspects which are also quite familiar from private industry, namely a large increase in layers of administration and bureaucracy. If you have to control people, you have to have an administrative force that does it. So in US industry even more than elsewhere, there�s layer after layer of management � a kind of economic waste, but useful for control and domination.

And the same is true in universities. In the past thirty or forty years, there�s been a very sharp increase in the proportion of administrators to faculty and students; faculty and students levels have stayed fairly level relative to one another, but the proportion of administrators have gone way up.

There�s a very good book on it by a well-known sociologist, Benjamin Ginsberg, called The Fall of the Faculty: The Rise of the All-Administrative University and Why It Matters, which describes in detail the business style of massive administration and levels of administration � and of course, very highly-paid administrators. This includes professional administrators like deans, for example, who used to be faculty members who took off for a couple of years to serve in an administrative capacity and then go back to the faculty; now they�re mostly professionals, who then have to hire sub-deans, and secretaries, and so on and so forth, a whole proliferation of structure that goes along with administrators. All of that is another aspect of the business model.

But using cheap and vulnerable labor is a business practice that goes as far back as you can trace private enterprise, and unions emerged in response. In the universities, cheap, vulnerable labor means adjuncts and graduate students. Graduate students are even more vulnerable, for obvious reasons. The idea is to transfer instruction to precarious workers, which improves discipline and control but also enables the transfer of funds to other purposes apart from education.

The costs, of course, are borne by the students and by the people who are being drawn into these vulnerable occupations. But it�s a standard feature of a business-run society to transfer costs to the people. In fact, economists tacitly cooperate in this. So, for example, suppose you find a mistake in your checking account and you call the bank to try to fix it. Well, you know what happens. You call them up, and you get a recorded message saying �We love you, here�s a menu.� Maybe the menu has what you�re looking for, maybe it doesn�t. If you happen to find the right option, you listen to some music, and every once and a while a voice comes in and says �Please stand by, we really appreciate your business,� and so on.

Finally, after some period of time, you may get a human being, who you can ask a short question to. That�s what economists call �efficiency.� By economic measures, that system reduces labor costs to the bank; of course, it imposes costs on you, and those costs are multiplied by the number of users, which can be enormous � but that�s not counted as a cost in economic calculation. And if you look over the way the society works, you find this everywhere.

So the university imposes costs on students and on faculty who are not only untenured but are maintained on a path that guarantees that they will have no security. All of this is perfectly natural within corporate business models. It�s harmful to education, but education is not their goal.

In fact, if you look back farther, it goes even deeper than that. If you go back to the early 1970s when a lot of this began, there was a lot of concern pretty much across the political spectrum over the activism of the 1960s; it�s commonly called �the time of troubles.� It was a �the time of troubles� because the country was getting civilized, and that�s dangerous. People were becoming politically engaged and were trying to gain rights for groups that are called �special interests,� like women, working people, farmers, the young, the old, and so on. That led to a serious backlash, which was pretty overt.

At the liberal end of the spectrum, there�s a book called The Crisis of Democracy: Report on the Governability of Democracies to the Trilateral Commission, Michel Crozier, Samuel P. Huntington, Joji Watanuki, produced by the Trilateral Commission, an organization of liberal internationalists. The Carter administration was drawn almost entirely from their ranks. They were concerned with what they called �the crisis of democracy� � namely, that there�s too much democracy.

In the 1960s, there were pressures from the population, these �special interests,� to try to gain rights within the political arena, and that put too much pressure on the state. You can�t do that. There was one �special interest� that they left out, namely the corporate sector, because its interests are the �national interest�; the corporate sector is supposed to control the state, so we don�t talk about them. But the �special interests� were causing problems and they said �we have to have more moderation in democracy,� the public has to go back to being passive and apathetic.

And they were particularly concerned with schools and universities, which they said were not properly doing their job of �indoctrinating the young.� You can see from student activism (the civil rights movement, the anti-war movement, the feminist movement, the environmental movements) that the young are just not being indoctrinated properly.

Well, how do you indoctrinate the young? There are a number of ways. One way is to burden them with hopelessly heavy tuition debt. Debt is a trap, especially student debt, which is enormous, far larger than credit card debt. It�s a trap for the rest of your life because the laws are designed so that you can�t get out of it. If a business, say, gets in too much debt it can declare bankruptcy, but individuals can almost never be relieved of student debt through bankruptcy. They can even garnish social security if you default. That�s a disciplinary technique.

I don�t say that it was consciously introduced for the purpose, but it certainly has that effect. And it�s hard to argue that there�s any economic basis for it. Just take a look around the world: higher education is mostly free. In the countries with the highest education standards, let�s say Finland, which is at the top all the time, higher education is free. And in a rich, successful capitalist country like Germany, it�s free. In Mexico, a poor country, which has pretty decent education standards, considering the economic difficulties they face, it�s free.

In fact, look at the United States: if you go back to the 1940s and 1950s, higher education was pretty close to free. The GI Bill gave free education to vast numbers of people who would never have been able to go to college. It was very good for them and it was very good for the economy and the society; it was part of the reason for the high economic growth rate. Even in private colleges, education was pretty close to free.

Take me: I went to college in 1945 at an Ivy League university, University of Pennsylvania, and tuition was $100. That would be maybe $800 in today�s dollars. And it was very easy to get a scholarship, so you could live at home, work, and go to school and it didn�t cost you anything. Now it�s outrageous. I have grandchildren in college, who have to pay for their tuition and work and it�s almost impossible. For the students � that is a disciplinary technique.

And another technique of indoctrination is to cut back faculty-student contact: large classes, temporary teachers who are overburdened, who can barely survive on an adjunct salary. And since you don�t have any job security, you can�t build up a career, you can�t move on and get more. These are all techniques of discipline, indoctrination, and control.

And it�s very similar to what you�d expect in a factory, where factory workers have to be disciplined, to be obedient; they�re not supposed to play a role in, say, organizing production or determining how the workplace functions � that�s the job of management. This is now carried over to the universities. And I think it shouldn�t surprise anyone who has any experience in private enterprise, in industry; that�s the way they work.

On How Higher Education Ought to Be

First of all, we should put aside any idea that there was once a �golden age.� Things were different and in some ways better in the past, but far from perfect. The traditional universities were, for example, extremely hierarchical, with very little democratic participation in decision-making. One part of the activism of the 1960s was to try to democratize the universities, to bring in, say, student representatives to faculty committees, to bring in staff to participate.

These efforts were carried forward under student initiatives, with some degree of success. Most universities now have some degree of student participation in faculty decisions. And I think those are the kinds of things we should be moving towards: a democratic institution, in which the people involved in the institution, whoever they may be (faculty, students, staff), participate in determining the nature of the institution and how it runs; and the same should go for a factory.

These are not radical ideas, I should say. They come straight out of classical liberalism. So if you read, for example, John Stuart Mill, a major figure in the classical liberal tradition, he took it for granted that workplaces ought to be managed and controlled by the people who work in them � that�s freedom and democracy. We see the same ideas in the United States. Let�s say you go back to the Knights of Labor; one of their stated aims was �To establish co-operative institutions such as will tend to supersede the wage-system, by the introduction of a co-operative industrial system.�

Or take someone like John Dewey, a mainstream twentieth-century social philosopher, who called not only for education directed at creative independence in schools, but also worker control in industry, what he called �industrial democracy.� He says that as long as the crucial institutions of the society (like production, commerce, transportation, media) are not under democratic control, then �politics [will be] the shadow cast on society by big business.�

This idea is almost elementary, it has deep roots in American history and in classical liberalism. It should be second nature to working people, and it should apply the same way to universities. There are some decisions in a university where you don�t want to have [democratic transparency because] you have to preserve student privacy, say, and there are various kinds of sensitive issues, but on much of the normal activity of the university, there is no reason why direct participation can�t be not only legitimate but helpful. In my department, for example, for forty years we�ve had student representatives helpfully participating in department meetings.

On �Shared Governance� and Worker Control

The university is probably the social institution in our society that comes closest to democratic worker control. Within a department, for example, it�s pretty normal for at least the tenured faculty to be able to determine a substantial amount of what their work is like: what they�re going to teach, when they�re going to teach, what the curriculum will be. And most of the decisions about the actual work that the faculty is doing are pretty much under tenured faculty control.

Now, of course, there is a higher level of administrators that you can�t overrule or control. The faculty can recommend somebody for tenure, let�s say, and be turned down by the deans, or the president, or even the trustees or legislators. It doesn�t happen all that often, but it can happen and it does. And that�s always a part of the background structure, which, although it always existed, was much less of a problem in the days when the administration was drawn from the faculty and in principle recallable.

Under representative systems, you have to have someone doing administrative work, but they should be recallable at some point under the authority of the people they administer. That�s less and less true. There are more and more professional administrators, layer after layer of them, with more and more positions being taken remote from the faculty controls. I mentioned before The Fall of the Faculty by Benjamin Ginsberg, which goes into a lot of detail as to how this works in the several universities he looks at closely: Johns Hopkins, Cornell, and a couple of others.

Meanwhile, the faculty are increasingly reduced to a category of temporary workers who are assured a precarious existence with no path to the tenure track. I have personal acquaintances who are effectively permanent lecturers; they�re not given real faculty status; they have to apply every year so that they can get appointed again. These things shouldn�t be allowed to happen.

And in the case of adjuncts, it�s been institutionalized: they�re not permitted to be a part of the decision-making apparatus, and they�re excluded from job security, which merely amplifies the problem. I think staff ought to also be integrated into decision-making, since they�re also a part of the university.

So there�s plenty to do, but I think we can easily understand why these tendencies are developing. They are all part of imposing a business model on just about every aspect of life. That�s the neoliberal ideology that most of the world has been living under for forty years. It�s very harmful to people, and there has been resistance to it. And it��s worth noticing that two parts of the world, at least, have pretty much escaped from it, namely East Asia, where they never really accepted it, and South America in the past fifteen years.

On the Alleged Need for �Flexibility�

Flexibility is a term that�s very familiar to workers in industry. Part of what�s called �labor reform� is to make labor more �flexible,� make it easier to hire and fire people. That�s, again, a way to ensure maximization of profit and control. �Flexibility� is supposed to be a good thing, like �greater worker insecurity.� Putting aside industry where the same is true, in universities there�s no justification.

So take a case where there�s under-enrollment somewhere. That�s not a big problem. One of my daughters teaches at a university; she just called me the other night and told me that her teaching load is being shifted because one of the courses that was being offered was under-enrolled. Okay, the world didn�t come to an end, they just shifted around the teaching arrangements � you teach a different course, or an extra section, or something like that. People don�t have to be thrown out or be insecure because of the variation in the number of students enrolling in courses. There are all sorts of ways of adjusting for that variation.

The idea that labor should meet the conditions of �flexibility� is just another standard technique of control and domination. Why not say that administrators should be thrown out if there�s nothing for them to do that semester, or trustees � what do they have to be there for? The situation is the same with top management in industry: if labor has to be flexible, how about management? Most of them are pretty useless or even harmful anyway, so let�s get rid of them.

And you can go on like this. Just to take the news from the last couple of days, take, say, Jamie Dimon, the CEO of JP Morgan Chase bank: he just got a pretty substantial raise, almost double his salary, out of gratitude because he had saved the bank from criminal charges that would have sent the management to jail; he got away with only $20 billion in fines for criminal activities. Well, I can imagine that getting rid of somebody like that might be helpful to the economy. But that�s not what people are talking about when they talk about �labor reform.� It�s the working people who have to suffer, and they have to suffer by insecurity, by not knowing where tomorrow�s piece of bread is going to come from, and therefore be disciplined and obedient and not raise questions or ask for their rights.

That�s the way that tyrannical systems operate. And the business world is a tyrannical system. When it�s imposed on the universities, you find it reflects the same ideas. This shouldn�t be any secret.

On the Purpose of Education

These are debates that go back to the Enlightenment, when issues of higher education and mass education were really being raised, not just education for the clergy and aristocracy. And there were basically two models discussed in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.

They were discussed with pretty evocative imagery. One image of education was that it should be like a vessel that is filled with, say, water. That�s what we call these days �teaching to test�: you pour water into the vessel and then the vessel returns the water. But it�s a pretty leaky vessel, as all of us who went through school experienced, since you could memorize something for an exam that you had no interest in to pass an exam and a week later you forgot what the course was about. The vessel model these days is called �no child left behind,� �teaching to test,� �race to top,� whatever the name may be, and similar things in universities. Enlightenment thinkers opposed that model.

The other model was described as laying out a string along which the student progresses in his or her own way under his or her own initiative, maybe moving the string, maybe deciding to go somewhere else, maybe raising questions. Laying out the string means imposing some degree of structure. So an educational program, whatever it may be, a course on physics or something, isn�t going to be just anything goes; it has a certain structure.

But the goal of it is for the student to acquire the capacity to inquire, to create, to innovate, to challenge � that�s education. One world-famous physicist, in his freshman courses if he was asked �what are we going to cover this semester?� his answer was �it doesn�t matter what we cover, it matters what you discover.� You have gain the capacity and the self-confidence for that matter to challenge and create and innovate, and that way you learn; that way you�ve internalized the material and you can go on. It�s not a matter of accumulating some fixed array of facts which then you can write down on a test and forget about tomorrow.

These are two quite distinct models of education. The Enlightenment ideal was the second one, and I think that�s the one that we ought to be striving towards. That�s what real education is, from kindergarten to graduate school. In fact there are programs of that kind for kindergarten, pretty good ones.

On the Love of Teaching

We certainly want people, both faculty and students, to be engaged in activity that�s satisfying, enjoyable, challenging, exciting � and I don�t really think that�s hard. Even young children are creative, inquisitive, they want to know things, they want to understand things, and unless that�s beaten out of your head it stays with you the rest of your life. If you have opportunities to pursue those commitments and concerns, it�s one of the most satisfying things in life.

That�s true if you�re a research physicist, it�s true if you�re a carpenter; you�re trying to create something of value and deal with a difficult problem and solve it. I think that�s what makes work the kind of thing you want to do; you do it even if you don�t have to do it. In a reasonably functioning university, you find people working all the time because they love it; that�s what they want to do; they�re given the opportunity, they have the resources, they�re encouraged to be free and independent and creative � what�s better? That�s what they love to do. And that, again, can be done at any level.

It�s worth thinking about some of the imaginative and creative educational programs that are being developed at different levels. So, for example, somebody just described to me the other day a program they�re using in high schools, a science program where the students are asked an interesting question: �How can a mosquito fly in the rain?�

That�s a hard question when you think about it. If something hit a human being with the force of a raindrop hitting a mosquito it would absolutely flatten them immediately. So how come the mosquito isn�t crushed instantly? And how can the mosquito keep flying? If you pursue that question � and it�s a pretty hard question � you get into questions of mathematics, physics, and biology, questions that are challenging enough that you want to find an answer to them.

That�s what education should be like at every level, all the way down to kindergarten, literally. There are kindergarten programs in which, say, each child is given a collection of little items: pebbles, shells, seeds, and things like that. Then the class is given the task of finding out which ones are the seeds. It begins with what they call a �scientific conference�: the kids talk to each other and they try to figure out which ones are seeds. And of course, there�s some teacher guidance, but the idea is to have the children think it through.

After a while, they try various experiments and they figure out which ones are the seeds. At that point, each child is given a magnifying glass and, with the teacher�s help, cracks a seed and looks inside and finds the embryo that makes the seed grow. These children learn something &mdash really, not only something about seeds and what makes things grow; but also about how to discover. They�re learning the joy of discovery and creation, and that�s what carries you on independently, outside the classroom, outside the course.

The same goes for all education up through graduate school. In a reasonable graduate seminar, you don�t expect students to copy it down and repeat whatever you say; you expect them to tell you when you�re wrong or to come up with new ideas, to challenge, to pursue some direction that hadn�t been thought of before. That�s what real education is at every level, and that�s what ought to be encouraged. That ought to be the purpose of education. It�s not to pour information into somebody�s head which will then leak out but to enable them to become creative, independent people who can find excitement in discovery and creation and creativity at whatever level or in whatever domain their interests carry them.

Advice for Adjunct Faculty Organizing Unions

You know better than I do what has to be done, the kind of problems you face. Just got ahead and do what has to be done. Don�t be intimidated, don�t be frightened, and recognize that the future can be in our hands if we�re willing to grasp it.


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+49 # tswhiskers 2012-11-15 14:26
So the fiscal policy of the U.S. has become keep on kicking the can down the road? Thanks primarily to the Reps. we have forgotten how to solve problems apparently. What do you think will happen in March, Mr. Reich? Is there no way to force the Reps. to act like politicians instead of spoiled children? Can the Reps. in the House be sued for failing to perform their jobs? I suppose there is no way to light a fire under their collectives a****. I am fed up with our do-nothing Congress. Sorry to vent. I just can't believe there isn't something that can force the Reps. to move, even if the country has to endure raised taxes for a few months.
 
 
+7 # Lgfoot 2012-11-16 10:54
How about impeachment for Treason? Putting party ahead of country must have some limits, and they have clearly surpassed any reasonable interpretation of the representatives right to protect his/her party's interests to the detriment of national interest. Four years of strangling the economy in a failed effort to defeat Obama was more than enough.
 
 
-43 # 666 2012-11-15 15:34
why isn't this stuff posted on some right-wing website? reich, two years ago when it was fashionable criticized obamanomics... then, as the election approched, couldn't write rah-rah-vote-fo r-obama columns fast enough...

btw, who actually is the architect of this grand betrayal, mr. reich?

before the election it was vote for obama or the country will go to hell; now will it be "accept the grand betrayal or the country will go to hell" can anyone use reason instead of fear-based sophistry any more?

I vote for the cliff. And I certainly don't want people like reich "saving" us from it.
 
 
+25 # brux 2012-11-15 18:47
weird point of view, i understand what you want but not anything about why, except that you throw around a lot of conservative rhetoric.

why do you blame robert reich as well, he has been dead on in everything he has said, and his suggestions are backed up with facts, history and a lot of famous economists, like Joe Stiglitz for example.

i don't think you really get it. if you want to understand how objective reich is read "the future of success" by him that talks about how all these factors have acted together to get us to this point, a situation he understands better than most and can articulate very well.
 
 
+18 # karlarove 2012-11-15 20:28
Its so weird that people continue to make this about Obama. Congress passes laws, and when they do so, they have agreed to pay them. They are the ones that are responsible for passing a budget. It is interesting that many members of Congress who voted for stuff without any idea of how to pay for it, and the revenue decrease (tax cuts), all in the past, but this is "Obamanomics?" Educate your self. Read about how the Constitution has three specific governing bodies for a reason. Write all your Congress members and tell them to do their blankety blanket jobs. And the Super Committee who was supposed to find a Super solution? Well, they are bought and paid for like the rest of the House, and why you think this is about Obama is crazy.
 
 
+45 # Barbara K 2012-11-15 16:23
Why on Earth do the stupid continue to send stupid Rs to congress? It isn't like we don't already know how inept and childish they are. They are being paid lots of money and do nothing to earn it. Anyone else would be fired from their jobs. How about some recalls? Doubtful if their voters know a single thing that is going on with them. They are the blind leading the blind.
 
 
+42 # AMLLLLL 2012-11-15 17:24
Barbara, I spoke with many of these people, and they are sadly misinformed on all sides. I spoke with women who think liberals are after their religious freedom, or let their husbands do all the politics in the family, including voting! It was tough... I credit Fox Noise and Rash Limbaugh for much of the poisoning of the well. It's so easy to take advantage of these people. All we can do is hope that this election jarred some into doing their own investigating, but that would conflict with their personality type.

We can and should push back against misinformation in the form of political ads to counter the deception. I just saw a dark, ominous anti-Obama ad, and this was after the election! Once every 4 years is not enough to keep the truth out there.
 
 
+16 # BradFromSalem 2012-11-15 20:31
AMLLLLL,

Wow,you really hit on all the points that make people keep returning the "R"s to office. There are a lot of people that paid very little attention to politics most of their lives. That was until they either lost their job or home, or some of their friends lost their jobs and/or homes back starting in late 2008.
So they decided to pay attention, since politics now made a difference in their life, up close and personal. Unfortunately, since they started paying attention late in the game it was very easy for them to accept that it's all Obama's fault. The TV News makes it all easy to understand and that Fox network is the most popular. So they got duped. And since they never paid hard attention in the past, there is very little for them to reference back to.
Most of the Republicans I know are good people. Many fall into the category I just described, and if it wasn't for the systemic dismantling of our economic infrastructure over the past 30+ years they would continue to not pay much attention. Others, are embarrassed by the insanity in the Republican Party; but that's their party and in many but not all cases they continue to vote for the R's.
At the end of thew day, I have found that they tend to hear things differently and the walls in many cases are too thick to break down overnight. We have to keep plugging away, and be ready to learn their language so we can translate Liberal ideas into something they will understand.
 
 
+4 # wantrealdemocracy 2012-11-16 09:55
Oh, come on Barbara. What makes you think it is any stupider to vote for an R or a D? Both of the corporate parties have the same agenda---screw the working people and help the rich get richer. It is true that all politics follow the way of least resistance which is why all of us need to get out on the street and say, loudly and clearly, "No Austerity!"
 
 
+22 # MichaelArchAngel 2012-11-15 16:52
As all plumbers learn "shit flows downhill". Go over the cliff happily! It can be fixed later and if not is still better than any proposed Grand Bargain!
 
 
+8 # tbcrawford 2012-11-15 16:55
Check out the People's Budget...some good ideas there if we can give up our guns!
 
 
-3 # Bildo 2012-11-15 17:08
I don't know why people still think there is a difference between Republican or Democrat. Or, why you even think voting in United States Inc. will do any good for the people. Are you really represented? No matter what, their agenda will be played out. Get ready for a rough ride.
 
 
+4 # BradFromSalem 2012-11-16 07:54
The Democrats have the Progressive Caucus. As tbcrawford notes, they have introduced budget legislation now called the "Budget for All". Additionally, the have reiterated the premise of the budget in their proposal to deal with the fiscal showdown. It's called the "Deal for All".

Check it out, if you like it, spread the word. Remind your Congress persons about it.

cpc.grijalva.house.gov/budget-for-all/

BTW, The Commonwealth of Massachusetts passed a state referendum endorsing this plan.
 
 
0 # bmiluski 2012-11-16 15:28
You might want to start reading something other than the comics. Like, oh I don't know, http://www.loc.gov/rr/program/bib/congress/.
Does money make a difference in governance....Y ou betcha, always has, always will, in any and every country. It's human nature....So I guess is whining.
 
 
+14 # Susan W 2012-11-15 17:40
And just what makes anyone think they would stick with another deadline? Furthermore, what good is a so-called "trump card" if it is never played?
 
 
+27 # MylesJ 2012-11-15 18:03
I'm with Warren Buffett. Take the leap. In 3 or 4 months the effect will be part of reality. Life will go on, and there will be deficit reduction. I like the Catch-22 approach. Go off the cliff and then the next day propose a tax cut for people making under $250,000 a year. That way there has been no tax increase, just an earlier law being followed, and a tax reduction is then offered. It is the only way to allow the GOP to obey their sworn allegiance to the great god Norquist and make progress on the deficit.
 
 
+30 # jpap100 2012-11-15 18:11
Tax cuts for the 2% must not be extended for a day! Mini-deal should be to extend tax cuts for the 98% period, so as to end uncertainty for a very nervous working class.
 
 
+38 # popeye47 2012-11-15 18:16
Why kick the can down the road for another 2 or 3 months. Draw a line in the sand for Jan. 1
If no compromise let the tax cuts for everyone expire. Then let Obama have a bill for a tax cut for those only making under $250,000. If the Republicans don't vote for it, then the people will hold them accountable.
But we don't delay this decision after Jan. No way.
 
 
+17 # one4all 2012-11-15 18:41
 
 
+12 # Shar 2012-11-15 18:41
What has happen that this country is made of WE THE PEOPLE?
The goofs in Washington DC, keep talking about it costing too much money to pay out people intitlements. It seems to me these are earned benefits and the goofs who collect $80,000.00 for kicking the can, think they deserve a continued paycheck, even though We The People have Fired Them are the ones who are depleating the money.
Can't there be a movement of Citizens to cut this as well as congressional members paying taxes on their health insurance which we pay for as well?
Shar
 
 
+17 # angelfish 2012-11-15 18:43
NO more "kicking the can down the road"! The President GOT his Mandate from the People! The ReTHUGlicans have to STOP the Bull-Puckey and DEAL with the President! The time to "fish or cut bait" has ENDED! WORK for ALL the People and FIX our Fiscal Problems NOW!
 
 
-5 # grandone@charter.net 2012-11-15 19:04
The "cliff" remains.
 
 
+3 # BradFromSalem 2012-11-16 08:00
Actually, the cliff is way past Jan. 1. It actually may never occur. The President actually hold all the cards, which is why he allows the cliff nomenclature to be used. Yes, taxes will go up on the Middle Class along with the tax increase on the wealthy; but the additional revenue will allow the President a lot of additional flexibility to apply that money creatively or just to pay down interest on the debt.

Don't believe what hear on the tv box, their first agenda is to get you go out and but that car or deodorant that they are always telling you about. Stay tuned for more details after this message!
 
 
+9 # truthbug 2012-11-15 19:05
How many here know what "going over the cliff" means? I don't. Yes, it means that there would be a repeal of the Bush tax cuts and a cut in spending. But don't we want the rich to pay more taxes and for the government to cut back on the military? Without knowing the specifics of what the taxes will be and what the cuts will be, we cannot say automatically that we're going over a cliff. I wish Reich would inform us more on what he means by this cliff.
 
 
+17 # banichi 2012-11-15 19:12
The 'Fiscal Cliff' is a myth made up by Republicans - particularly that mofo Boner - to panic people into thinking that there is a terrible disaster going to happen if the tax cuts for the rich don't get extended. (He doesn't care what happens to the middle class or the poor.)

Lawrence O'Donnell on MSNBC has given it a new name - the 'Fiscal Curb' which describes it much better. As he pointed out, nothing is going to happen immediately if ALL the tax cuts expire - just a bunch of Repuglicans standing there with goo on their faces because they didn't follow orders and scare enough people into supporting another rich-man's tax giveaway.

If you have not seen it yet, check out the Moveon.org and CREDO campaigns to send emails and phone calls to the President, and the members of the House who want to pull this B.S. on us. Let them know that just because the election is over and a horrible fate is averted, we are not going to let up on them. That's the only response that will keep them honest.

And let's all work on getting the s***heads out of office!!
 
 
+17 # Vermont Grandma 2012-11-15 19:24
Obama need backbone. The Republicans have made it clear that they will NEVER engage in bi-partisanship . There is NO point to "kicking the can down the road." To do so show the Republicans, once again, that Obama lacks backbone. They made it clear at the outset of Obama's first term that there would be no compromise, but he wasted time and capital seeking a bipartisan proposal re healthcare, only to see the Republicans vote against it as a block.

Obama did NOT get re-elected to cave to the Republican agenda. Let the cliff come, as it should, as it was expected to. Think of creative solutions for funding human services affected by the "cliff" - perhaps take what's left over of campaign contributions to the Obama campaign and split it up among affected programs to make up some of the cuts and encourage others, like Bernie Sanders and Pat Leahy and other Dems with big campaign pots to do so also, along with George Soros and Bill Gates, etc. etc. etc. But NO DEAL with the intransigent Republicans. They LOST!!! We can better cope with the cliff than having a spineless president.
 
 
+8 # Hey There 2012-11-15 20:48
 
 
+1 # Shar 2012-11-15 20:56
Lets not attack Obama, Grown Men are paid to do a job, which is about keeping Ameican and the citizens in a good position to have a life. They should not be forced to do their job.
Tha Amarican people are the ones who have no backbone, why don't we call, write or go as a crowd to the members who are not doing their job. Thats what needs to be done. Obama is not the father of grown men. Shar
 
 
+6 # sameasiteverwas 2012-11-15 19:46
I'm with Hal Sparks on this one -- extending or not extending the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy has NOTHING to do with the sequestration deal, and should be handled entirely separately -- they should be allowed to lapse, as the President has promised us, in January, and any grand deals, mini or otherwise, should be made without ANY reference WHATSOEVER to taxes at last going to something NEAR fairness for income over $250,000. I also think that people making money off of money -- not hiring anyone, just playing the market -- should be taxed half a cent per transaction -- not per share, per transaction -- and that money should be used initially to fund things like a Jobs Program for Veterans -- you know, like the one the GOP recently refused to allow to come to a vote. Then a Jobs Program for the rest of us. Also, I think it's time for a national lottery to help fund education. Why NOT?
 
 
+11 # m... 2012-11-15 19:59
Its time for most Democrats to grow a spine and stand for something besides spouting anti-Republican Rhetoric and getting themselves re-elected based on -- Republicans are bad and I'm not a Republican so vote for me.
Maybe begin with following Senator Warren's lead... :)
and view it at your chance to 'Refresh' yourselves with the American People.
You might be surprised at to just what kind of strong and much larger following you gather to yourselves/your 'base'...
 
 
+7 # JSRaleigh 2012-11-15 20:37
It's not better if it ends with another capitulation; cutting Social Security & Medicare while giving the Tbaggers everything they want on tax cuts.
 
 
+1 # politicfix 2012-11-15 21:00
Same old, same old. If Obama says he's going to keep the tax breaks there will be a civil war. He did that 4 years ago. He promised in the election that he wouldn't extend the tax breaks and he did with the threat of the deficit. Here we are again. January will roll around and the fiscal cliff is on the horizon. He'd better not pull the same thing and extend those tax breaks to the rich for even one day. He'd better not fool with social security or medicare or there will be a third party elected in 4 years. If Obama owes Goldman Sachs so much that he's willing to sell the people down the river again, he'd better consider that he has 4 years to deal with the group who put him in there.
 
 
+3 # Working Class 2012-11-16 12:57
 
 
+3 # shenry71 2012-11-16 15:21
Jobs, for the price of one war, we could have had a High Speed Rail system connecting all major metropolitan areas of the country. Hey, why don't we do it now?

Steve
 
 
+1 # shenry71 2012-11-16 19:39
Quoting shenry71:
Jobs, for the price of one war, we could have had a High Speed Rail system connecting all major metropolitan areas of the country. Hey, why don't we do it now?

Steve

Bmiluski, thank you for the Library of Congress citation, however, as Milton Friedman said,"I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you".
 

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