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Sanders writes: "The Trans-Pacific Partnership is a disastrous trade agreement designed to protect the interests of the largest multi-national corporations at the expense of workers, consumers, the environment and the foundations of American democracy."

U.S. senator Bernie Sanders addresses a crowd. (photo: AP)
U.S. senator Bernie Sanders addresses a crowd. (photo: AP)


The Trans-Pacific Trade (TPP) Agreement Must Be Defeated

By Bernie Sanders, Reader Supported News

03 January 15

 

he Trans-Pacific Partnership is a disastrous trade agreement designed to protect the interests of the largest multi-national corporations at the expense of workers, consumers, the environment and the foundations of American democracy. It will also negatively impact some of the poorest people in the world.

The TPP is a treaty that has been written behind closed doors by the corporate world. Incredibly, while Wall Street, the pharmaceutical industry and major media companies have full knowledge as to what is in this treaty, the American people and members of Congress do not. They have been locked out of the process.

Further, all Americans, regardless of political ideology, should be opposed to the “fast track” process which would deny Congress the right to amend the treaty and represent their constituents’ interests.

The TPP follows in the footsteps of other unfettered free trade agreements like NAFTA, CAFTA and the Permanent Normalized Trade Agreement with China (PNTR). These treaties have forced American workers to compete against desperate and low-wage labor around the world. The result has been massive job losses in the United States and the shutting down of tens of thousands of factories. These corporately backed trade agreements have significantly contributed to the race to the bottom, the collapse of the American middle class and increased wealth and income inequality. The TPP is more of the same, but even worse.

During my 23 years in Congress, I helped lead the fight against NAFTA and PNTR with China. During the coming session of Congress, I will be working with organized labor, environmentalists, religious organizations, Democrats, and Republicans against the secretive TPP trade deal.

Let’s be clear: the TPP is much more than a “free trade” agreement. It is part of a global race to the bottom to boost the profits of large corporations and Wall Street by outsourcing jobs; undercutting worker rights; dismantling labor, environmental, health, food safety and financial laws; and allowing corporations to challenge our laws in international tribunals rather than our own court system. If TPP was such a good deal for America, the administration should have the courage to show the American people exactly what is in this deal, instead of keeping the content of the TPP a secret.

10 Ways that TPP would hurt Working Families
  1. TPP will allow corporations to outsource even more jobs overseas.

    According to the Economic Policy Institute, if the TPP is agreed to, the U.S. will lose more than 130,000 jobs to Vietnam and Japan alone. But that is just the tip of the iceberg.

    • Service Sector Jobs will be lost. At a time when corporations have already outsourced over 3 million service sector jobs in the U.S., TPP includes rules that will make it even easier for corporate America to outsource call centers; computer programming; engineering; accounting; and medical diagnostic jobs.

    • Manufacturing jobs will be lost. As a result of NAFTA, the U.S. lost nearly 700,000 jobs. As a result of Permanent Normal Trade Relations with China, the U.S. lost over 2.7 million jobs. As a result of the Korea Free Trade Agreement, the U.S. has lost 70,000 jobs. The TPP would make matters worse by providing special benefits to firms that offshore jobs and by reducing the risks associated with operating in low-wage countries.

  2. U.S. sovereignty will be undermined by giving corporations the right to challenge our laws before international tribunals.

    The TPP creates a special dispute resolution process that allows corporations to challenge any domestic laws that could adversely impact their “expected future profits.”

    These challenges would be heard before UN and World Bank tribunals which could require taxpayer compensation to corporations.

    This process undermines our sovereignty and subverts democratically passed laws including those dealing with labor, health, and the environment.


  3. Wages, benefits, and collective bargaining will be threatened.

    NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR with China, and other free trade agreements have helped drive down the wages and benefits of American workers and have eroded collective bargaining rights.

    The TPP will make the race to the bottom worse because it forces American workers to compete with desperate workers in Vietnam where the minimum wage is just 56 cents an hour.


  4. Our ability to protect the environment will be undermined.

    The TPP will allow corporations to challenge any law that would adversely impact their future profits. Pending claims worth over $14 billion have been filed based on similar language in other trade agreements. Most of these claims deal with challenges to environmental laws in a number of countries. The TPP will make matters even worse by giving corporations the right to sue any of the nations that sign onto the TPP. These lawsuits would be heard in international tribunals bypassing domestic courts.


  5. Food Safety Standards will be threatened.

    The TPP would make it easier for countries like Vietnam to export contaminated fish and seafood into the U.S. The FDA has already prevented hundreds of seafood imports from TPP countries because of salmonella, e-coli, methyl-mercury and drug residues. But the FDA only inspects 1-2 percent of food imports and will be overwhelmed by the vast expansion of these imports if the TPP is agreed to.


  6. Buy America laws could come to an end.

    The U.S. has several laws on the books that require the federal government to buy goods and services that are made in America or mostly made in this country. Under TPP, foreign corporations must be given equal access to compete for these government contracts with companies that make products in America. Under TPP, the U.S. could not even prevent companies that have horrible human rights records from receiving government contracts paid by U.S. taxpayers.


  7. Prescription drug prices will increase, access to life saving drugs will decrease, and the profits of drug companies will go up.

    Big pharmaceutical companies are working hard to ensure that the TPP extends the monopolies they have for prescription drugs by extending their patents (which currently can last 20 years or more). This would expand the profits of big drug companies, keep drug prices artificially high, and leave millions of people around the world without access to life saving drugs. Doctors without Borders stated that “the TPP agreement is on track to become the most harmful trade pact ever for ?ccess to medicines in developing countries.”


  8. Wall Street would benefit at the expense of everyone else.

    Under TPP, governments would be barred from imposing “capital controls” that have been successfully used to avoid financial crises. These controls range from establishing a financial speculation tax to limiting the massive flows of speculative capital flowing into and out of countries responsible for the Asian financial crisis in the 1990s. In other words, the TPP would expand the rights and power of the same Wall Street firms that nearly destroyed the world economy just five years ago and would create the conditions for more financial instability in the future.

    Last year, I co-sponsored a bill with Sen. Harkin to create a Wall Street speculation tax of just 0.03 percent on trades of derivatives, credit default swaps, and large amounts of stock. If TPP were enacted, such a financial speculation tax may be in violation of this trade agreement.


  9. The TPP would reward authoritarian regimes like Vietnam that systematically violate human rights.

    The State Department, the U.S. Department of Labor, Human Rights Watch, and Amnesty International have all documented Vietnam’s widespread violations of basic international standards for human rights. Yet, the TPP would reward Vietnam’s bad behavior by giving it duty free access to the U.S. market.


  10. The TPP has no expiration date, making it virtually impossible to repeal.

    Once TPP is agreed to, it has no sunset date and could only be altered by a consensus of all of the countries that agreed to it. Other countries, like China, could be allowed to join in the future. For example, Canada and Mexico joined TPP negotiations in 2012 and Japan joined last year.



Reader Supported News is the Publication of Origin for this work. Permission to republish is freely granted with credit and a link back to Reader Supported News.

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+107 # ronnewmexico 2015-01-03 11:55
Bernie…you continue to be cutting edge on things of importance to the American people. Not things they know of to be of importance…. as out media effectively sees to it these things are largly not know of..but things that really will affect our destiny.

My kudos to you and my hat remains off to you. Everything you state on this issue is of course quite true and right.

Thank you for expressing it, little me I have no voice it is so small it is rarely heard…you say it loudly for I and others who are like I …..

You speak for us with small hands and small voices.
 
 
+81 # Barbara K 2015-01-03 12:14
Bernie, you speak for me too. Please find a way to put a stop to this monstrosity. What is the matter with the thinking in the powers that be? They seem so hellbent on destroying us, every one of us, except the wealthy, of course. We need to keep our jobs, where is the sense in sending our jobs to other countries, that is just one of the bad things. There are so many bad things in this Bill that it is no wonder they are doing it all in secret. I hope you can find a way to put a Hold on it, if you even get a voice in it yourself. I wish the people could all vote on it, not just Congress. We know how the Rs will vote, in total excitement to make the citizens even poorer. I guess we cannot expect much more when we have morons putting bigger morons in congress. Thanks for all you do for us, Senator.

..
 
 
+22 # A_Har 2015-01-03 14:55
Quoting Barbara K:
What is the matter with the thinking in the powers that be? They seem so hellbent on destroying us, every one of us, except the wealthy, of course.

From their point of view, there is nothing "wrong" with their thinking. This is the "New World Order" which has been planned for for YEARS. They want to put the rich at the top of the heap and institutionaliz e a new worldwide feudalism with most ordinary people at the bottom.

A few years back I read The Globalization of Poverty and the New World Order
http://www.amazon.com/Globalization-Poverty-New-World-Order/dp/0973714700/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1420318137&sr=8-1&keywords=The+globalization+of+poverty+and+the+new+world+order

by Michel Chossudovsky

"In this new and expanded edition of Chossudovsky’s international best-seller, the author outlines the contours of a New World Order which feeds on human poverty and the destruction of the environment, generates social apartheid, encourages racism and ethnic strife and undermines the rights of women. The result as his detailed examples from all parts of the world show so convincingly, is a globalization of poverty.

This book is a skilful combination of lucid explanation and cogently argued critique of the fundamental directions in which our world is moving financially and economically."

So...this is the plan for all of us. If you want to know how the plan is already being implemented elsewhere, READ IT. It is likely to happen here too.
 
 
+30 # ritawalpoleague 2015-01-03 16:47
Yes, Barbara K, Bernie is indeed a people server, and speaks up, over and over and over, for we the 99%. Sorry to say, Hillary Clinton is being quoted as saying that she favors the catastrophic TPP.

Is Hill the Shill gonna get my vote in '16, even if she runs and gets nominated? Hell no ! Run, please Bernie, run - and give it a try as a Dem. You are our best ray of hope, as you demonstrate here in this great piece.

SANDERS PANDERS NOT, TO THE 1%
 
 
+15 # WestWinds 2015-01-04 00:27
#Barbara K: Quote:
"We need to keep our jobs, where is the sense in sending our jobs to other countries, that is just one of the bad things. "
--- The sense is:

(1) Those running the fascism get to completely demoralize American workers;
(2) The purpose is to destroy the unions and any bargaining power labor has;
(3) Another purpose is to cut wages and benefits;
(4) Another purpose is to wrest away from Congress the ability to have any say in their decision making (another action step in their coup d'etat);
(5) Another purpose is to take over all the land in America and its resources. People will be so poor they will be forced to sell their land for peanuts, or take it by eminent domain (as they have been doing with Indian Treaty Lands,)or these industrialists will get the banks to foreclose and then they will buy out the bank's assets.
(6) The whole purpose is the complete disenfranchisem ent of We the People so we are reduced to little more than cattle in a stockyard waiting to go to the slaughterhouse for their enrichment.
They already view us, not as human beings but as a commodity to be bought, sold and used as their whim dictates.

These people are SICK. And We are crazy for letting them get away with all of this. These people need to have all of their assets confiscated (just like any other loaded gun) and they need to go to jail for high treason against the USA and her people.
 
 
+7 # joan 2015-01-03 21:59
I don't know about "cutting edge"--activist s have been hard at work on this for two years, with nary a peep from Sanders. They do not have small hands and voices. They have worked constantly and effectively and finally gotten the attention of an ambitious politician. My vote for big hands: Liz Warren (not Eliz. Warren of MA) and the Flush the TPP Team: whose actions we can join and support: http://www.flushthetpp.org/
 
 
+25 # riverhouse 2015-01-03 12:19
The TPP will pass in the Congress because Democrats in their fairyland little tantrum refused to support President Obama in the midterm elections and now we have a certainty that all manner of right wing nuttiness will pass in Congress. Democrats will reap what they have sown in their silliness.
 
 
+36 # ronnewmexico 2015-01-03 12:24
RH..I'm pretty sure Obama favors this.
 
 
+21 # A_Har 2015-01-03 13:35
Quoting riverhouse:
The TPP will pass in the Congress because Democrats in their fairyland little tantrum refused to support President Obama in the midterm elections and now we have a certainty that all manner of right wing nuttiness will pass in Congress. Democrats will reap what they have sown in their silliness.

You need to give up the fantasy that Obummer is on your side.
 
 
+8 # A_Har 2015-01-04 02:05
Obama was not the lesser of two evils, he is as Glenn Ford says the more EFFECTIVE evil.

Glen Ford: Obama, a More Effective Evil?
http://www.you-tube.club/watch/?v=el7YVZXnwdk
 
 
+26 # lfeuille 2015-01-03 15:27
Quoting riverhouse:
The TPP will pass in the Congress because Democrats in their fairyland little tantrum refused to support President Obama in the midterm elections and now we have a certainty that all manner of right

wing nuttiness will pass in Congress. Democrats will reap what they have sown in their silliness.



Obama has publicly supported the TPP and fast track. He will not veto it if it passes, but Bernie seems to think it can be defeated and he is not the only one. I would think a lot of republicans would object to undermining US sovereignty, if nothing else.
 
 
+8 # Pancho 2015-01-03 19:24
You would think wrong. The "R"s will support whatever their masters tell them to support.

Clinton got NAFTA passed with heavy support from Republicans, not so much from Democrats. Despite the pressure he bore, there were 28 "D"s against, 10 "R"s. I think 28 "D"s voted for with Dorgan not voting. That would leave 33 "R"s voting for it,
 
 
0 # RLF 2015-01-06 06:43
A black Dem from Louisiana is supporting the other guy who is a white supremacist! Who needs Reps. with Dems like this!!!
 
 
+19 # Eldon J. Bloedorn 2015-01-03 18:35
Recently a post read,"If Obama were white, he would be the GOP hero." Probably true.
 
 
+7 # CTPatriot 2015-01-04 05:53
Can you not read? Congress has had NOTHING to do with the creation of or negotiations behind the TPP. Every bit of that comes from the White House, which means it is your beloved Obama who is pulling the strings here.

You're trying to tell us that elections have consequences and TPP is some kind of punishment for too many Democratic voters sitting out the 2014 mid-term election?

When are you Democratic party hacks and loyalists going to realize that YOU and YOUR PARTY are the problem, and it is exactly crap like Obama supporting the TPP that causes Democratic voters to stay home? If you can't properly diagnose the problem, you will never ever fix it.
 
 
+5 # A_Har 2015-01-04 14:27
It isn't just the DEMs. ALL dedicated PARTISANS lose IQ points when they tow the party line. AND, *They Are All In It Together!*

It is the method by which we are all manipulated and herded. So both sets of partisans then take part in defending the indefensible based on what they IMAGINE their favored politician is up to, but that is a delusion.

One has to go on principle instead of softpedaling the actions. If it was WRONG under Bush, but Obummer is doing it now--well, it is STILL WRONG and it needs to be vigorously opposed. No excuses.

Partisans tend to go to sleep and/or then rationalize wars, corruption, or they BLAME THE OTHER PARTY for the failures. That is part of the manipulation. It puts people into a comatose state wherein they refuse to demand accountability.
 
 
+3 # WestWinds 2015-01-05 10:08
Quote:
..."When are you Democratic party hacks and loyalists going to realize that YOU and YOUR PARTY are the problem, and it is exactly crap like Obama supporting the TPP that causes Democratic voters to stay home? If you can't properly diagnose the problem, you will never ever fix it.
---Sadly, most people are low-information voters and vote the party of their parents blindly because they don't really follow politics; either because they don't know how or they don't want to be bothered.

I am always appalled at Democrats who sing the praises of Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton and/or Obama. They are really just supporting the Democratic Party and not the individual candidate or politician.
 
 
+2 # bckrd1 2015-01-05 20:40
I hate to say this to you but my understanding is Obama is the one who is for this deal. He brought the guy in who is negotiating on the US behalf. I was stunned to hear he would be for this at all as it runs counter to his middle class "support" speeches. I hope it fails but I fear it will pass. Make your voices heard. I have contacted my reps and written the WH but it can't hurt to do it again.
 
 
+2 # RLF 2015-01-06 06:41
Obama has been the guy negotiating this treaty and keeping it secret. If you haven't noticed by now (in la la land with the faux news people?) Obama is on the wrong side of almost every single policy...he's not a black man, he is just a Harvard fucking lawyer!
 
 
0 # Anarchist 23 2015-01-06 19:31
We the People will reap what the Crazies have done...
 
 
+59 # mikehz 2015-01-03 12:27
Bernie, I applaud your courage and persistence. It's astounding that Congress runs rampant over our rights and well-being with no regard for anything except getting re-elected. And I just don't understand why the people who are victimized don't vote. When are we going to take our government back?

Keep fighting Bernie! You and Elizabeth Warren are glimmers of hope.
 
 
+16 # ronnewmexico 2015-01-03 13:12
Mike no offense I once in the interest of stopping torture did run a local city voting registration drive..organizi ng teams of 3 to 5 groups targeting areas we knew would favor our politic. We end result registered many thousands over the 6 month or so project time frame. I organized and ran this without pay, thoiugh it was pretty much a full time job.This back in 03.

I voted for a third party candidate in 12 and plan not to vote again. I agree with Russel Brand…think of what all this has brought us…this democracy. Seems not to be working that.

I was back in the day once in jail susequent to demonstration. 600 plus of us were arrested and being held. thirteen of us with greater charges for various cause..I was one of the thirteen…Back in the day this was typical….. a select number were chosen and targeted and prosecuted for the majority. The Chicago seven in those demonstrations… that was this.

The solution..the 600(almost all of them Allan Ginsberg for one did leave).. refused to leave jail until we were first released. The normal inmate population began to riot..things grew out of control in the jail…..they released us.

We particpate in the things of our imprisonment always..sometim es this is in the form of trying to fight against it...

I and more and more of us say now…no we will not seek release..until all are released…no we will not vote. We shame outselves to so participate in this corruption.
 
 
+12 # A_Har 2015-01-03 13:42
My SO made it a point to UNREGISTER from voting; he became terminally disgusted. I am still a registered voter, but I get your point.

We are caught in a double bind if we play by rules that are rigged against us.
 
 
+23 # Pancho 2015-01-03 19:36
If progressives didn't vote, Bernie never would have been elected mayor of Burlington.

I spent almost five years in the pen for being "counter culture," in the late '50s, early '60s. I spent eight years after I got out getting my right to vote restored. It's important.
 
 
+8 # A_Har 2015-01-04 14:37
Quoting mikehz:
Bernie, I applaud your courage and persistence. It's astounding that Congress runs rampant over our rights and well-being with no regard for anything except getting re-elected. And I just don't understand why the people who are victimized don't vote.

In 2000, lots of people did vote, but DIEBOLD helped to rig the outcome, that and the Supreme Court. So HOW are we going to take it back is more the question.
 
 
+3 # WestWinds 2015-01-05 10:14
Quoting A_Har:

In 2000, lots of people did vote, but DIEBOLD helped to rig the outcome, that and the Supreme Court. So HOW are we going to take it back is more the question.

--- Paper ballots handed in to the Board of Elections face to face.

After this, informed decision making. Become active with whatever area of politics interest you. PCCC (Progressive Change Campaign Committee) has it all broken down and out into areas of interest and getting a subscription to their site will keep one informed, together with reading RSN articles and comments. Thom Hartmann's radio show is another source of info.
 
 
+1 # RLF 2015-01-06 06:47
Burn the supreme court to the ground. And then march to Diebold headquarters.
 
 
+27 # mikehz 2015-01-03 12:27
Bernie, I applaud your courage and persistence. It's astounding that Congress runs rampant over our rights and well-being with no regard for anything except getting re-elected. And I just don't understand why the people who are victimized don't vote. When are we going to take our government back?

Keep fighting Bernie! You and Elizabeth Warren are glimmers of hope.
 
 
+15 # Pancho 2015-01-03 19:38
People who have been the most victimized don't vote because a great many of them have been barred from the polls. It's called "felony disenfranchisem ent," and it's aimed at minorities and the poor.
 
 
+24 # REDPILLED 2015-01-03 12:30
Starting Monday, January 5, 2015, call your two Senators and tell them to vote AGAINST this terrible treaty: 202-224-3121
 
 
+22 # A_Har 2015-01-03 13:22
Quoting REDPILLED:
Starting Monday, January 5, 2015, call your two Senators and tell them to vote AGAINST this terrible treaty: 202-224-3121

I have been onto this monster for years--signing petitions, posting about it on internet boards and so on. It has a sister too--yet another poison pill. Although I read it is not going over so well in Europe. But, I have no doubts they will work on ramming it down everyone's throat. It is another screw job like the TPP.

The Transatlantic Trade Deal: a project of the 1%
https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/nick-dearden/transatlantic-trade-deal-project-of-1

Nick Dearden 22 June 2014

The EU/US trade deal (TTIP) is a vast power grab on behalf of the world's biggest corporations, and there's still time to stop it.

I myself do not know what can stop this sh!t when I watch both my DEM senators voting for things I find abhorent.
 
 
+3 # Pancho 2015-01-03 19:45
Check him out. His "tag" on Wikipedia is CFredkin
 
 
+7 # Pancho 2015-01-03 19:45
The operatives from America Rising, perhaps on the payroll of the Koch brothers, have been vigorously pushing the Transatlantic Trade Deal. For instance, this seems to have been the point person who was editing Wikipedia in favor of the deal (while his job was mainly to slander Democratic candidates).

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership&diff=632755882&oldid=632755396
 
 
+30 # ronnewmexico 2015-01-03 12:39
From a wash post headline dec 3…

"Obama says he willing to defy Democrats on his support of Trans-Pacific Partnership"

I would say obama is the prime mover on this thing of evil.
 
 
+27 # randrjwr 2015-01-03 12:41
I am probably displaying my ignorance here, but I will ask anyway: "Is the TPP, being a treaty and requiring Senate approval, not subject to the filibuster?"

Stock up on soothing gargle and prepare to talk for as long as is necessary, Bernie! You may be our only hope.

Ignorance #2: It is said that many Congresspersons voted on the ACA without reading much, if any, of it. But they were not shut out and prevented from reading it. This is different! How can anyone approve a measure of any kind when they are forbidden to know its content? Are they under death threats or overwhelmingly paid off? WAKE UP CONGRESS!! Aren't you, at least, a LITTLE suspicious? Or do you just NOT CARE? Have you so little regard for the good of the American People?
 
 
+24 # ronnewmexico 2015-01-03 12:55
To add context a bit rand..
This from wikipedia…

"If the President transmits a fast track trade agreement to Congress, then the majority leaders of the House and Senate or their designees must introduce the implementing bill submitted by the President on the first day on which their House is in session. (19 U.S.C. § 2191(c)(1).) Senators and Representatives may not amend the President’s bill, either in committee or in the Senate or House. (19 U.S.C. § 2191(d).) The committees to which the bill has been referred have 45 days after its introduction to report the bill, or be automatically discharged, and each House must vote within 15 days after the bill is reported or discharged. (19 U.S.C. § 2191(e)(1).)

Fast track does not allow a filibuster.
It is sort of a unique thing particular to trade agreements to prevent modification by the house or senate.

The coalition in opposition now curiously is tea party types and far left types in the senate and house.

Obama sucks..this will kill the working class in many ways enumerated above….do you really think he is not as he acts??
 
 
+5 # randrjwr 2015-01-03 18:54
Is all this you have quoted LAW or just some kind of rule? If this is a law, it should be repealed in toto ASAP! No President deserves that kind of power; it is essentially dictatorial.

Addendum: I just checked out (19 U.S.C. § 2191(c)(1), and it is truly frightening, at least to me. Since the article said it was passed by Congress ("as an exercise of the rulemaking power of the House of Representatives and the Senate, respectively... "), guess that means it is law. How could Congress cede so much power to a President? Mind boggling.
 
 
+4 # Pancho 2015-01-03 19:49
A filibuster can be ended by a cloture vote.

All it would take would be, say, 55 Republicans and five Democrats.
 
 
+22 # Regina 2015-01-03 12:54
Congress now has Republican majorities in both houses, and they will vote for the interests of those corporations who bought them their seats. The only people who are of concern to them are the Fox watchers who serve as their echo chambers.
 
 
+16 # A_Har 2015-01-03 13:07
Quoting Regina:
Congress now has Republican majorities in both houses, and they will vote for the interests of those corporations who bought them their seats. The only people who are of concern to them are the Fox watchers who serve as their echo chambers.


Of course DEM partisans (AKA Obamatons) will scream that the Rethugs are responsible for this travesty even after Obummer signs the deal. He could veto it, but he won't.

He is not on our side either.
 
 
+23 # Stilldreamin1 2015-01-03 13:01
It would codify what is already the defacto policy- that corporate interests have priority over voters' intent. When the interests of corporations are joined to the state,there's a name for this political structure.
 
 
+22 # Saberoff 2015-01-03 13:07
Yes, Fascism.
 
 
+18 # A_Har 2015-01-03 13:09
Did I hear someone mention Fascism?
 
 
+22 # Cassandra2012 2015-01-03 14:02
Quoting A_Har:
Did I hear someone mention Fascism?


"Fascism should rather be called corporatism, as it is the merging of government and corporate power." ~Benito Mussolini
 
 
+9 # Depressionborn 2015-01-03 21:01
Quoting Cassandra2012:
Quoting A_Har:
Did I hear someone mention Fascism?


"Fascism should rather be called corporatism, as it is the merging of government and corporate power." ~Benito Mussolini


Exactly, Cassandra: Fascism. Thank you.

And the New World Order marches on. All it needs is bigger government.
 
 
+29 # Working Class 2015-01-03 13:13
Supporting the TPP is nothing less than economic treason. Our past "Free Trade" agreements have demolished the middle class and made the poor even poorer. Bernie - run for President on the platform of not only opposing TPP, but undoing the other harmful trade agreements, breaking up the too big to fail banks, restoring Glass-Stegal, taking money, and the official bribery that is destroying democracy, out of politics. People from the Right and the Left will support that agenda.
 
 
+8 # randrjwr 2015-01-03 19:04
Here here!! Run for President, Bernie, if you don't die under suspicious circumstances before you get the chance.
 
 
-24 # skipb48 2015-01-03 13:54
I hate to be a kill joy here, but I don't see much proof of Senator Sanders' statements.
He claims we have lost 700,000 jobs to NAFTA. I'm not saying he is wrong, but I'd like to be sure he is stating a case of causation not correlation. I know there were jobs lost to both automation and out sourcing during this time. Were all those 700,000 jobs lost, filled with workers in foreign countries?
Henry Ford said he wanted his workers to be able to afford what they were building. Could we not say the same about our foreign customers? If we want to be able to sell to the rest of the world they will need jobs to buy what we make. Until the job market becomes equal all over the world we will not make much traction in improving the labor market of any nation.

Again I'm not saying he is wrong, just that I need more evidence before I slam the door on free trade, but I do agree on his Fast Track complaint.
 
 
+9 # ronnewmexico 2015-01-03 13:59
Skip..no offense but think about it…"Henry Ford said he wanted his workers to be able to afford what they were building. Could we not say the same about our foreign customers?

Our foreign customers number in excess of 6 billion. And our population is..???
Some call it scale of operation…in any manner called…sorry no that logic is not sustainable in the real world considered.
Nice in a ideological framed world it is….but the real is not that.
 
 
+16 # Working Class 2015-01-03 14:06
Well skipb48 we are well on our way to having a "job market" that is "equal all over the world". Problem is its not just other workers in the world wages coming up - its ours stagnating and going down. Brilliant! Not sure about others, but I for one am not willing to see my kids and grand kids future look like that of the Third World workers. And for the record, yes we did loose many, many jobs that have been sent over to places like China. The US even provides tax breaks in the form of write-offs for moving those jobs. In fact, it was reported a few years ago in US papers that the US Department of Commerce was giving seminars for US businesses who were looking at moving their production and and our jobs off-shore.
 
 
+9 # A_Har 2015-01-03 14:39
Quoting skipb48:
Again I'm not saying he is wrong, just that I need more evidence before I slam the door on free trade, but I do agree on his Fast Track complaint.

If you have internet access, you certainly can look it up for yourself. And, since this thing is spring loaded against your interests, I think it would be worth your time.
 
 
+6 # motamanx 2015-01-03 15:00
NAFTA was wrong, also. Not only PP.
 
 
+8 # Nigeldp 2015-01-03 13:54
If you want to trade places with India, Vietnam, Bangladesh then ignore the TPP
Soon you'll be lining up to emigrate to those places Ha Ha Ha. Yes they'll be laughing at stupid Americans.
 
 
-13 # Robbee 2015-01-03 14:03
bernie, look what you are doing, turning folks away from the democratic process, voting, as commented above:

"I and more and more of us say now…no we will not seek release..until all are released…no we will not vote. We shame outselves to so participate in this corruption."

is that what you stand for, bernie? turning our backs on democracy? withholding our votes? we have to insure things get worse, so bad we all riot in streets? please rein in our crazies, thanks!

i signed your bernie buzz petition, where you gave the same reasons you stated above, to oppose the TPP. if you or anyone mobilizes opposition to TPP, i support protests and occupancies. that's where i draw the line and you should too. kindly make clear that restoring our democracy, stopping corruption, takes voting in elections, thanks!
 
 
+1 # ronnewmexico 2015-01-03 14:16
I then being one of the crazies I guess.. don't blame Bernie a bit on my decision. Blame Obama in his first term for refuseing to allow the Clinton tax cuts to reapply with the sunset of the Bush tax cuts..that was my straw on that back.

I will briefly get into the history of your democracy. Do you think America was ever formed as a democracy….by gender disallowed, by race disallowed, by native origine disallowed…this was never a democracy nor are there ever democracies.
It is a republic. Did you know one could not even be a citizen of New York state and be roman catholic until 1806?

Of course not you buy their narrative. How could you know of your democracy.

The inceptor of your democracy a picture finely made will be found of him in your legislative bodies house….a inceptor, most say the inceptor of restraint of rule of kings which led to directly democracy…

Know who his father was..the most heinous of the cather killers. The aristocracy they had a problem. The peoples were starting to hate them and their monk inquisitors. So the most famous killer of the cathers who killed himself by order 30.000 or so ….his son framed this thing of partiipation to provide simulation of ownership…

as the friars the inquisitors… the commoners mainly even the catholics….had started to ring the church bells when a friar would die…how to counter that…invent a semblence of ownership…democ racy
So his son..he did that. He was killed by a cather womans rock thrown.
 
 
-2 # ronnewmexico 2015-01-03 14:32
Have you even heard of cathers. Perhaps..that catholic narrative I would suppose 60,000 killed by that. Ask the descendents those who live now in sourthern france…. who a thousand years yet know…a million died. Every technique of torture and information retrieval know to the west every police state type action(the putting of a sign on cathers clothing as the Nazies did to jews) even curiously good cop bad cop information retrieval, bread and water which killed you in a year….it came from that. And I could go on and on.

That is the root of your democracy. His son…. the northern french nobel….who performed the most heinous genocide known to man then and by population whole considered... even now….his son is the instigator to your sham of democracy. Now known that do you wonder why or how could be that..england back in that day a provincial place a backwoods of a sort. His line is still in the house of lords now.
Sustained his fortune by curiously marrying a clothier. Cathers were closthiers in the main..a rythum is present to things it seems... curiously ironic that.

Enabled in your US for one purpose..to sustain slavery which was by english judicial ruling four years prior to the onset of the revolution…to end slavery in the colonies…
shall I continue…guess not why bother.

yes tell me of your noble democracy….Fill in the blanks if you have the time..it is all here all you need to do is research..do it it will change your world.You will not but it could.
 
 
0 # Allanfearn 2015-01-03 14:24
So where does or did the senator stand on TTIP, which seems to have ensured the US a similar immunity from a great many sensible national and multinational laws and conventions in Europe?
 
 
+9 # jlg 2015-01-03 14:27
TPP and its ugly sister TTD/TTIP are the bought products of our CORPORATOXIC (new word!) administration. The result of this coming corporatoxicity will be to hasten our demise. Ramming GMOs down our throats (no local ordinances can prevail against a Trade Deal) or spraying forest and crops with lethal pesticides, are just two examples of the mayhem to come - unless we act to prevent these 'deals'.
 
 
-5 # motamanx 2015-01-03 14:57
The real answer to all this is term limits. If congress people didn't have to worry about re-election funding all the time, and were impelled to enact and defend laws instead, perhaps--no, certainly--some thing would be accomplished in that body of government other than grandstanding. Gerrymanders must go, also.
 
 
+10 # A_Har 2015-01-03 15:07
I doubt that would matter as long as corporations are people, and MONEY is "Free $peech."
 
 
+5 # lfeuille 2015-01-03 15:42
Quoting motamanx:
The real answer to all this is term limits. If congress people didn't have to worry about re-election funding all the time, and were impelled to enact and defend laws instead, perhaps--no, certainly--something would be accomplished in that body of government other than grandstanding. Gerrymanders must go, also.


They'd just go through the corporate revolving door faster with term limits. It would solve nothing a besides is undemocratic on its face. If my congresswoman is doing a good job I want to be able to keep her in it. (I live in DC. I don't have senators and my congresswoman can't actually vote. This is also very undemocratic on its face).
 
 
+5 # Pancho 2015-01-03 19:59
Term limits would accomplish the Kochs' ultimate goal. Cheap buys of seats, naive congressional reps, dependent on revolving door staffers.
 
 
+8 # ronnewmexico 2015-01-03 15:14
Agree with ahar and I think Bernie does as all..remove the money is the only way. HOw to do that is to provide public funding of campaigns. there is still the primary process and all that…but all in all... it tames the beast and makes it more reasonable to work with.

Not perfect but it helps a whole whole lot…things plainly now are completely our of control. We have a perfect storm... lack of education, controlled corporate media, no restriction of monies donated to campaigns…. making this thing a completly owned thing.
 
 
+8 # punditalia 2015-01-03 15:14
Thank you Bernie for speaking out on the most important issue of our time. Point 2 here is what makes this proposed treaty an act of treason by anyone proposing it. The bill of rights has already been shredded. This would throw out the entire Constitution.
 
 
+8 # Corvette-Bob 2015-01-03 15:42
This treaty is like a reward to the corporation for buying our politicians.
As Mitt Romney said, "Corporations are people my friend." This a reward to corporation, just like repealing the restrictions on using FICA for speculation with derivatives that was placed in the 1.1 trillion dollar budget. This will be worse than NFTA.
 
 
+4 # A_Har 2015-01-03 21:14
I have read that it is "NAFTA on steroids."
 
 
+6 # DaveM 2015-01-03 16:37
How many people remember the North American Free Trade Act? How many have noticed how that turned out? TPP will simply broaden the scale of that disastrous agreement.
 
 
+7 # lavant04@comcast.net 2015-01-03 16:54
I have been working with The Global TPP team for over a year now (10 public events and a forum) and it seems to me that the only chance we have of defeating this horrid bill is to inform the public about it so they will call and email their legislators and tell them to vote no. Call the capitol switchboard at 202-224-3121, ask for your representative' s office (the battle seems to be most urgent in the house), then call and express your opinion. Also, find an issue they seem to care about and tell them what the TPP would do to that issue. For informaation, go to Flushthetpp.org , stopfasttrack.o rg or publiccitizen.o rg, read up on it and help us defeat it. You can also write letters to the editor, print articles about it and carry them with you to share, hold a demonstration and hand out informational brochures with legislators' contact numbers on them to everyone, hold signs up to traffic with websites on them and stay aware of actions at Public Citizen, Popular Resistance, etc. It is going to take determination and public awareness of this secret corporate giveaway if we are to defeat it.
 
 
+2 # joan 2015-01-03 22:10
Hear hear! It's not Bernie Sanders who's going to shut this down (though he'll take the credit), it's we the people. Some of whom have been working very hard on this for a long time. http://www.flushthetpp.org/ shows us what we can do to to join the cause and be effective. Don't let hope in an ambitious authority figure derail us again. Great news if Senator Sanders wants to ride Flush the TPP's coattails (though he doesn't mention them): it'll draw more attention. But we don't need and can't depend on presidents and viziers and kings. We have to do it ourselves.
 
 
+3 # ahollman 2015-01-03 17:27
The rationale for a secret process, and for fast-tracking or otherwise circumventing national legislative review, is that nations will not spend years negotiating a treaty if legislators or the populace can then reject it. That rationale is both undemocratic (provides for input by corporate and private interests, but not by legislators or the public), intellectually bankrupt.

The following objections apply to -all- complex, multilateral agreements, not just TPP: Process is secret, not subject to any public review, excessively lengthy. Negotiators are not required to disclose any potential conflicts of interest, nor are they given a public statement of what goals they are supposed to achieve or negotiate. Resulting document is far too long and far too complex, even for legislative review, never mind public review.

If the Allies had spent even a fraction of the time taken on the TPP to coordinate their efforts, Hitler would have won WW2.

Sen. Sanders, how about some Congressional reforms that would apply to any process in which the US participates? Here are some:

A time limit on US participation: 12 months, with a single 6-month extension.

Periodic publication, for public review, of the most current draft, every 30 days.

Provision for periodic public and legislative comment to US negotiators.

An upper limit on the number of typed, double-spaced pages any treaty can run. 100 pages.

Time for public review of final release prior to Presidential signing.
 
 
+2 # angelfish 2015-01-03 18:22
As usual, Bernie is right on this! WHEN will those in power in this Country start to DO something for Americans? We are ALL hurting, except for the 1%-ers and it's time our Congress started to do SOMETHING for the working poor in these, once great, United States of America!
 
 
+1 # futhark 2015-01-03 20:35
President Woodrow Wilson's first of 14 Points to cure the evils that brought about World War I:

"Open covenants of peace, openly arrived at, after which there shall be no private international understandings of any kind but diplomacy shall proceed always frankly and in the public view."

What about open covenants of trade?
 
 
+3 # itchyvet 2015-01-03 21:12
Here in Australia, you can approach folks in the street and ask them about the TPP, they'll stand there with a dumbstruck look on their faces for a few seconds, then ask, "WTH is that?" Very few Aussies are even aware of this treacherous agreement.
On top of that our MSM, seems to ignore it even exists as well, pick up any newsprint in this country, and there will be no mention of this agreement anywhere, very little is ever said, (if anything IS ever said) about Australian MP's views on the matter, or the pros and cons of the agreement it'self.
I'd hazard to say, our politicians have already agreed to this despicable traitorous agreement.
 
 
+5 # banichi 2015-01-03 21:20
Thank you, Bernie, for standing up as always for the citizens of our country.

We citizens are already feeling very disempowered by the slow disenfranchisem ent of all of us. I won't reiterate what other commenters have already made clear, but simply note that the TPP and its companion the TTD/TTIP will be the final nails in the coffin of American democracy. At least the part about people having power in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. As far as the issue of voting/not voting is concerned, I have found the following questions in myself.

1. I voted for Obama twice. Which I now understand meant I voted for what I thought was the lesser of two evils, but actually was only slowing the process down of handing power to billionaires and corporations. And he was the best hope we had. Along with so many Congressional representatives who sound good but don't do much for we the people. So who is there to vote for?

2. Given our country's history, I treasure my right to vote. Given the history of power sliding to the right, I don't see it making much difference when candidates I am supposed to expect will represent me, don't.

3. Given Obama's history, him being in the banker's and other billionaires and corporations' pockets, expecting him to veto anything that supports the .01%, is pointless. We can talk about him being a captive all we want, it does not matter.

So what now? We are a captive people with only illusions of Constitutional rights. That is the reality.
 
 
+4 # banichi 2015-01-03 21:28
So we are supposed to vote to demonstrate our empowerment in the process of governing. Only it doesn't make a difference when money buys elections, Conservatives lie about what they mean to get elected, and Democrats by and large are pu^^ies who don't and won't hit back at them with the truth.

If that sounds discouraging, it is. Bernie, I would vote for you, work for you, and donate to a campaign to elect you. I did for Elizabeth Warren.

In the face of all the crap I see lined up against us, how do we make the necessary difference to take back our government?

I don't know.
 
 
+4 # ronnewmexico 2015-01-03 22:21
We don't…. Bernie has not a snowballs chance in hell of getting elected to the big one. In this US in this world of the donation buys the vote and likely as well the voter(due to lack of education)….for get about it.

That is as it is and it is as set in stone. I am glad for Bernie and I love the guy and his stands he makes….but bottom line….nothing will change here.

I am not advocating for revolution or any of that…but it is clear a big big thing of bad will have to happen to break this stone from upon our neck.

I think I smell it coming. Plainly something is out and about that was not here even 5 or so years ago.

I remain with my point…I will not vote..it is a rude boy joke in this current environment. None vote…they get their way…but do they not anyway…seems so.The choice is always lesser of two evils which leaves you with what…always a lesser thing.
So none vote….would they still hold a election? Change perhaps would they?… Seems we know the vote it changes nothing..
What exactly is there to loose. They torture one of us, (Bradley Manning) they torture all of us. They kill one of us by drone they kill all of us…..they as they say…. first came for the jew, then the gypsy then this and then that…we are the least of us always…so they now come for us all, we don't just know it yet.
They get what they want always. The only question is now..how much do they?
This is madness to expect change now. We have seen change and it is not. Called that it was.
 
 
+5 # A_Har 2015-01-03 23:31
If you vote for the lesser of two evils, *you still get evil.*

At this point, I am not sure there IS any lesser of two evils remaining,
 
 
+2 # banichi 2015-01-03 23:54
ronnewmexico, I smell something coming also. I am not advocating for revolution either, and what I think is coming is what the Citi Group set up in the new appropriation that Obama signed off on. It says that the banks can once again gamble with depositor's money, and means they won't be held responsible for losses in the next meltdown. That means to me that they are looking ahead to one they know is coming. I am betting on a derivatives-cau sed, global banking failure. Which the government, meaning us, will be on the hook for.

Will a disaster of that magnitude be enough to crack the stranglehold of the banks and corporations on our country? Change anything substantially? I would not put any money on it, as they say.

And as A_Har says below, I also don't think there is any lesser of two evils remaining...
 
 
+5 # Depressionborn 2015-01-04 16:06
Yes Banichi, you are right: many things now making no sense, way too many. We only really need shelter, sustenance and security. She and I have lived without running water. It can be done. We are likely too old now. In any case it is not about us anymore, it is about the rest of you. Take care. What cannot continue will not continue.
 
 
+2 # banichi 2015-01-03 23:54
ronnewmexico, I smell something coming also. I am not advocating for revolution either, and what I think is coming is what the Citi Group set up in the new appropriation that Obama signed off on. It says that the banks can once again gamble with depositor's money, and means they won't be held responsible for losses in the next meltdown. That means to me that they are looking ahead to one they know is coming. I am betting on a derivatives-cau sed, global banking failure. Which the government, meaning us, will be on the hook for.

Will a disaster of that magnitude be enough to crack the stranglehold of the banks and corporations on our country? Change anything substantially? I would not put any money on it, as they say.

And as A_Har says below, I also don't think there is any lesser of two evils remaining...
 
 
+3 # ronnewmexico 2015-01-04 14:38
B…in the immediate, the problem is with the price of oil. It does not sustain the loan rate and levels at this current price. Of course all the loans are held or originate with banks. Who defaults and when is just a amount of time. Junk bonds which in part reflect the funding stream for oil explorers reflect this. Since the drop in oil you can't give them away with candy attached to them.

If the price continues….some thing to rival 08 may be just around the corner. The contagion would spread to the banking industry pretty quickly. And to anyone who holds junk bonds(high interest rate short term bonds) at large.
Are they stupid enough to continue the artifically low prices till that happens…by my take no.
When the gross export of oil is approved and signed into law by the new congress... I think the manuevered drop will gradually exasperate. They were hoping governmentally for a venezulan or/Russain collapse but I think they may correctly see that longer term. The immediate being a american acceptance to the removal of the gross oil export ban.

But that by my take is the immediat of this hazard.
Obama sucks if anyone seeing this deal still supports him and is on the left…I just don't know what to say to them.
They not only are drinking the kool aid but bathing in it as well…

Riots mass demonstrations… peoples like Russel Brand(beyond a comedian now) saying basically…give up on it and wait…..
Could be any tipping point..these things happen like lightening.
 
 
+7 # futhark 2015-01-04 03:15
If Bernie Sanders decides to run, I hope he will remember Paul Wellstone and have someone watching his back at all times.
 
 
+2 # futhark 2015-01-04 03:13
Banichi "I voted for Obama twice. Which I now understand meant I voted for what I thought was the lesser of two evils, but actually was only slowing the process down of handing power to billionaires and corporations. And he was the best hope we had. Along with so many Congressional representatives who sound good but don't do much for we the people. So who is there to vote for?"

I voted for Cynthia McKinney in 2008 and Jill Stein in 2012, both courageous, principled, and intelligent candidates. Those were the best hopes I had and who there was to vote for and I'm damn glad I didn't waste my vote on Barack Obama.

Just the same, we recognize that being principled, courageous, and intelligent are not sufficient qualifications for the presidency for any person unwilling to become the lackey of the power elite. It is difficult to imagine a way to open public office to such as these, given the stranglehold on our political process by this elite. However, that shouldn't stop us from voting for those who represent our values and aspirations.
 
 
+1 # ronnewmexico 2015-01-04 14:48
F..if this was nazi germany and hitler held one of his sham elections….woul d you participate in them. Would not the participation add a legit air to them?

Naomi Klein has rightly stated all dictatorships allow a democratically elected part to survive. They do not hold power but they are necessary.
Does our participation in that not serve to enhance that dictatorship?

Vote away it is certainly your choice. I look around here and for right or wrong see more and more….

You know of course by the defense appropiration bill of 2012 we can any of us be determined by the military, to be terrorists…and held until the conflict is over? Which means of course forever.
And Obama's only objection to that was that it may impinge his power as the president to do so?

So I mean vote away it is your choice. Bernie..more power to him great guy I hope he runs. He will…and he will loose miserably…our hope it is in part what sustains this thing as well to my personal view..
They will allow a Bernie for that reason. But come close to win…he would be crushed as they did when Howard Dean started to get close..that quickly suddenly and for no apparent reason…a sound bit manipulated.

I will not vote, as I would not have then.
 
 
+4 # politicfix 2015-01-04 16:17
"The laborer furnishes the capitalist with money, houses, clothes, eatables, service, and then the weapons and power to keep him enslaved." "Without Labor, Capital would starve; without Capital, Labor could live in luxury." Alfred Lawson

What can we do to help? I'm emailing this to as many people as I can, and my local newspaper. I am also copying it into a flyer to pass out. I am writing to my senators, congressmen, and the President. I admire Bernie as he keeps trying to fight for what's right. We can't wait for someone else to turn things around and then complain that we are victims.
 
 
+3 # runningtab 2015-01-04 18:55
Ambient toxicity across the social and political spectrum for the last few years, plus a continuing stream of news like this, have me heading for the exit. I'm fortunate to have an EU citizen wife, so we're relocating to a civilized country.

I'm an ex-marketing guy, very skilled at distilling the "essence" of a "brand" down to crystalline brevity. So here are new ways to brand where we're at today.

1. Let's drop the bit about US equals "superpower." With our arms industry and international meddling, US equals super-arsonist, lighting and fanning fires all the hell over the place.

2. That, accompanied by our dances with extremists, playing one against another, arming some and obliterating others, scraping up the goodies that only corruption can deliver, makes us ... wait for it ... the superwarlord.

3. The international development agencies I write and edit for use the term "developing nation" to describe countries that are trying to implement basic (to us progressives) protections and rule of law. It pains me terribly to see the US becoming an "un-developing nation" as it unravels into racism, bigotry, an terminal education and health care deficit ... all the usual suspects.

Such a tragedy. The marketing materials (Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights) were so beautifully and brilliantly done.
 
 
+2 # ronnewmexico 2015-01-04 20:03
I agree with most of what you say running and it is well said.

I wanted to add perhaps though the marketing materials were well done but do speak to a thing of racism endemic to america.There is a fair body of work which attests to the supposition that america engaged revolution not for nobel purpose but as a judiciary in england had determined slavery was not found in english common law..

So it was illegal. Subsequent to that all the colonies with the exception of india, where it was considered a natural order of theirs, slavery was stopped. The US revolution began in earnest about 4 or so years after that ruling, though there had been ripples before irt. And put into actual law in the constitution common law no longer applied.

I adhere to that view.
By that take the place deserves little solace upon its departure. It is most like sparta. They never were really defeasted in battle. But they could not manage a thing they conquered. So in the end they the spartans suffered a revolution from within and ended up a bit like archetypes within their own country. Look over there a spartan, in his armament, how quaint..he rules nothing but he dresses well…;)

So america yes wonderful weaponry but they can no longer afford to use them, and so corrupted they are most of them they do not work..but yes..how quaint …look over there….their empire eroded.

China displaced their currency as the one of trade…how sad they did not see it coming.
 
 
0 # runningtab 2015-01-05 08:44
Ronnewmex, noted with thanks for a new view on the slavery issue. I thought the Brits put an end to it in the 1830s, but I'm pulling that out of thin air (and thinning hair). And the Sparta analogy is a beauty. Speaking of weaponry, the latest on the F 35 is that it ... doesn't work so good.
 
 
0 # ronnewmexico 2015-01-05 12:04
Running it was a gradual effect as it was a judicial ruling, many of the prohibitances were not overt but as a reaction to it. If a overt law had been passed against slavery in england it would have overtly been applied, meaning in the immediate.

Overt laws did eventually happen as you mention in your time frame. But those overt laws were acceptable as they complied with english common law which did not allow slavery.

So the laws became possible with the judiciaries ruling.
It is not hard to see that for the american colonialists the writing was on the wall….slavery would become impossible under english rule.

Hence the revolution. It had to have a notation on slavery as if it did not common law would apply and then the english ruling would also become fact here. The specific mention in the constitution made common law mote.
 
 
0 # ronnewmexico 2015-01-05 12:15
To explain with a current example. In the eighties the supreme court declared the fleeing felon killing by police prohibitive. Police had shot a 14 year old for stealing a pocket book in the back as we was jumping over a fence to escape.

Found unconstitutiona l but we will find in Missouri the fleeing felon law does still now 30 or so years later still exist.
So in Fergurson a police officer shooting a felon(fleeing) is perfectly legal, under state law at present. Of course federally it is completely illegal for a officer to do so.

This provides protection however for any officer who shoots a person know to have comitted a felony. Assault of a police officer in all context is a felony. So assaulted a police officer by rule a officer may kill to stop. In Missouri…see the law in 30 years has not changed to reflect the ruling.

Perhaps now it will but this speaks to the effect of judicial ruling on law. Once found for the judiciary has no means to effect a place to comply. A system of appeal and litigation for damage must ensue to cause great loss to a state or place usually for change to occur.

In this specific subsequent to civil suit loss of millions upon millions for the death in fergurson….the state. Missouri... will change the law. But the officer…he had to be found inncocent of the simple charge of murder. He acted legally in Missouri. Other charges not but that is another story.

So basically a judicial determination takes a while to effect into law.
 
 
0 # ronnewmexico 2015-01-05 12:25
It did take in england around 50 years for the ruling to establish itself firmly in law widespread with application for all it colonies.

But america was one of the most restive of colonies back in the day. Due to actions of Cromwell, the Puritans the response of the king it had become a hotbed. The governers appointed by the king had to effectively step in and manage the place the locals being obviously unable to do so.

In Mass bay for instance the Puritans had taken to not only allowing only puritans to vote but to murder any who had chosen to live in their areas who were not puritan. Famously they hung a poor Quaker woman who had lived there all her life for the crime of not leaving…

So the king had to step in appointed a governor to manage when normally colonies run themselves.
I mention this to show not direct relationship…bu t that the american colony was out of control.

So we can reasonably assume the judicial ruling would have forseen a more quick response in america….it was a volitile place back in the day. Someone would have challenged most probably the quakers.
 
 
+1 # ronnewmexico 2015-01-05 12:32
Running..none will read this none will care. Even you yourself we probably forget you have written it and disregard.

Yes the new weaponry does not work, and this does not work and that does not work, and the politic here is completely unworkable…

all indicate a decline of empire. It is not just the empire itself that declines when such happens the people themselves declne in capacity and intelligence..t hese two are not unconnected.

With the decline of Rome and its supplementation by eventually the holy roman empire we saw wholescale forgetting of things. Most curiously to those in the field in war…the generals forgot how to fight them. Regressing from roman legion learned things to more primitive fashions.

But that is just one obvious…it was endemic and prevailing.
So now we torture we take away rights we make police military….and it will indeed get worse not better.

AS empire degenerates..so will its people….
 
 
0 # runningtab 2015-01-05 15:09
Speaking of empire ... as France is in my future, I've been marveling at their historic and ongoing engineering brilliance, which forged them their empire; their gracious civility, which makes mandatory a "Bonjour, Madame/Monsieur " upon every encounter. Got to thinking that in the 1950s, in light of their lame WWII performance and after debacles in Indochina, the Suez and Africa, having lost both literal ground and the moral high ground, they shrugged and ceded their obsolete numero uno status to the US.

So what do we do?

Follow them into Vietnam, the Middle East, Afghanistan—and get similarly toasted in "battle," similarly losing whatever high ground we thought we had in the eyes of the world.

The French, though, also in the '50s, began building the world's best health care system and upgraded schools, working conditions, social protections. Maybe we'll follow them there ... doesn't look promising just now, though, does it ...
 
 
0 # ronnewmexico 2015-01-05 16:44
Not in France, no not right about now…a socialist who is not one seemingly?

France has history. Their history a inquisition against the cathers was once the most atrocious genocide and the inception of police state tactic to ever happen.
Northern france against southern..thoug h the south was then not france. They being all killed or repressed out of existence.
Along with woman rights and vegetarianism curiously.
The catholic historians say 60,000 the descendents in southern france say a million….

And france formed england. It was not even english that was used for quite some time in governmental circles it being considered a backwoods provincial place similiar to Japan in Chinese eyes about this time.

England and all that kingship lord house and all…french really dutch a bit here and there a bit….but english back then led not the leaders in things. Who were those who signed the magna carta…were they really english or a generation or two from the mainland?

So there is history and empires come and go.
the most affable people…INida. You talk to them on internet…they start with…dear ron….it breaks your heart.

French high ground? Perhaps
 
 
0 # runningtab 2015-01-05 21:14
Ronnew, I respect your erudition and enjoy this rare actual online exchange. Isn't it a question of which empire-du-jour doesn't have blood on its hands? (And silly wigs or hats on its heads)? French? Check. Mayans? Check? Khmer? Check. Americans who are not baseball players? Check. Pick a hemisphere-the boss culture was not always a nice guy. History is a level, blood-soaked playing field.

Doesn't that mean that we have to look at the post-boss culture and judge not the past—no one passes that test—but instead judge the present?

I spent a lot of time in Thailand—litera l translation "free land," referencing the country's "never colonized" history. A Thai comedian scoffed at that national definition of self: "We were never colonized because when we had a ruling footprint over Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia ... if someone else wanted some of it, we said 'OK, all yours' until we had nothing left but today's Thailand. That's not getting colonized, that's being neighborly."

Just as an aside, Thailand was ranked, admittedly on a grossly generalized metric, "the most 'feminine" of Asian nations, maybe of all nations. And what do 97% of Thai male teenagers do for at least a full summer or longer? Novice Buddhist monk. Meditation. Compassion. Service. Discipline. Oh, by the way, kid, you want food? Hit the streets with your empty bowl.

And the people feed them. Too many countercurrents here to make that work. Referencing your Quaker woman...

Can you imagine that here?
 
 
0 # ronnewmexico 2015-01-05 22:25
running, you challenge me to think..
Buddhism in that fashion….…. I think Pol Pot was a product of similiar type things in his area. the issue being…does negation of self.. lead also to a question then, of loss of things self stands for….ie morality. Seems it is easier, a bit, to push that envelope in that religiously framed culture. When they go bad in that type place they go very bad.
It seems something a sort of restraint is lacking.

You do perhaps know... Germany was subject to manipulations of sorts after WW2 to produce outcome. That outcome being a more peaceful people.

Drug use of psychedelics fror instance.. here in the americas…why exactly did they do testing of that thing, on up and coming authors and such... the most cutting edge of new writers, Ken Kesey for one…when normally they used poor Guatamalans and those in those testing endeavors.

So I thought….a consequence of that thing.. that culture as well, that surrounds that thing…it produces a buddhism of a sort. A idea that perspective is arbitrary. Which is certainly true. But in a world where it is a known that your heinous deeds are to soon be discovered(over throws, assinations truly evil stuff)…do you not have to introduce such a thing that makes morality…arbitr ary…to protect and to continue?

I am trained but lama's will not educate westerners to the deeper concepts.
For cause as it produces nihilism. One may do anything.
 
 
0 # ronnewmexico 2015-01-05 22:40
So personally running…. I pursue the concepts and specifics of the training but leave the formality of it behind. It is just so easy to manipulate that thing, and those who utilize it. It is a great danger.

I stole the concepts as they would not be freely given. Working for long times with those peoples in those places…so I stole it all. But I know firmly why it is not given, especially to westerners. They could not stop me I am so clever.

Was it in a sense given by the way that thing was tested?
Seems so to me. How better to spread not necessarily the thing, the drug, but the idea, indirectly.
Ben Franklin as you may know in lore. Was attempting to sell Europe on american products in Europe. How to sell the veggies not found in Europe.. so peoples would buy them…..

They put a guard upon a plot of land. Veggies were grown. The guard was present all day, and every night went home.. the veggies, of course when the guard went home..they were all stolen…

So Ben it is said….thus sold the veggies of america, to Europe. Probably pure BS…but it reminds me of that….how to change morality of a people. The actual drug is not necessary. A author, professors who used that drug, a place which today would be Portland…and the saying that thing…is all that is needed.

So I don't hazard formally that line of thought for common folk..it is to dangerous.
Thailand…a couple of thousand years…they know how.

Here misused…that line has produced these peoples morality.
 
 
+1 # RnR 2015-01-06 05:51
The next time O makes some stupid speech and refers to "our democracy" I hope I don't puke.
 

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