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Reevell writes: "In a long op-ed published in The New York Times this week, titled "A Plea for Caution from Russia," Russian President Vladimir Putin pleaded for the U.S. not to launch military strikes against Syria."

Russian President Vladimir Putin. (photo: YANA LAPIKOVA/AFP/Getty Images)
Russian President Vladimir Putin. (photo: YANA LAPIKOVA/AFP/Getty Images)


The Real Reasons for Vladimir Putin's Syria Op-Ed

By Patrick Reevell, Rolling Stone

15 September 13

 

Russia's president is savoring a moment where he can take the moral high ground in an international crisis.

n a long op-ed published in The New York Times this week, titled "A Plea for Caution from Russia," Russian President Vladimir Putin pleaded for the U.S. not to launch military strikes against Syria. Instead, citing international law and concern for civilians, Putin urged America to pursue Russia's proposed plan for Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad to hand over his chemical weapons.

The moral high ground is not usually a place where you'd find Putin - a man better known for jailing critics, persecuting gays and steamrolling smaller countries. Since the Syrian crisis began, Putin has stood by Russia's long-time ally, blocking any U.N. criticism of Assad's regime, while upping arms shipments to the war-torn nation. For two years, Russia has had to play the role of the big, bad bear.

But Russia's proposal last week that Syria's government place its chemical arsenal under international control has turned the situation on its head. Suddenly, Putin is speaking the unaccustomed language of peace and international law - and, even stranger, finding he can actually more or less mean it.

"We must stop using the language of force and return to the path of civilized diplomatic and political settlement," wrote Putin, whose ruthlessness against Chechen terrorists is legendary. The man who has been accused of presiding over a series of politicized show trials in his own country wrote, "The law is still the law, and we must follow it."

Putin has found himself on the right side of public opinion in the U.S. when he writes, "It's alarming that military intervention in internal conflicts in foreign countries has become commonplace for the United States." This week, the unlikely hashtag #PutinforPeace has been trending.

Many found it hard to stomach Putin's holier-than-thou attitude. U.S. Senator Bob Menendez (D-New Jersey), chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told CNN, "I almost wanted to vomit." Sen. John McCain (R-Arizona) tweeted: "Putin's NYT op-ed is an insult to the intelligence of every American."

These critics are right not to take Putin at his word. The Russian leader's overriding motive is to shield Assad from U.S. military strikes - Russia sees no possible gain from Assad's defeat, and it does not care if Syria is democratic or not. Putin doesn't have much interest in international law, except where it constrains America, as his desolating war in Chechnya proves. As he recently told a Russian paper, "We're not an NGO. We have national interests."

Those interests in this case are stopping militants seasoned in Syria from returning to Chechnya and Dagestan in southern Russia, and preventing a precedent for regime change, which the Kremlin fears might one day be used against them.

So why write about Syria in The New York Times? Because in some ways Putin does mean what he wrote - he has no affection for U.S. dominance or military intervention, and more importantly, he's discovered that many others agree with him. Russia is now setting the global agenda in a way it hasn't done since the fall of the Soviet Union. The Times' decision to publish shows Putin's personal importance on the world stage is at all-time high. Unexpectedly back in the same ring as the U.S., and finding much of the world in his corner, Putin is milking this moment for all it's worth.

The Kremlin has scented a chance to re-establish itself as the leading alternative to the U.S. in the world. Russia's key role in the flight of NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden; the G20 economic conference, which Russia hosted last week; and Russia's dealmaking role in the Syria crisis are all being used as tools to portray Putin as a statesman of global stature. The past two weeks have seen a flurry of frank statements from Putin at home, setting out his worldview. Gloating in The New York Times is the finishing touch.

Pushing back on the idea of American exceptionalism, the Russian leader wrote, "We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord's blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal." In a week like this, Putin must love his job.


 

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+107 # DaveM 2013-09-15 07:58
I believe that, despite the changes in Russia during the past 25 years, some are still haunted by the specter of the Red Menace. The idea that a Russian leader could have a good idea, or, God forbid, a better idea than the United States remains foreign (pun intended) to many Americans.

It seems to be that more people, including our government, need to do some serious work on being open to the principle that a good idea, tested on its merits, remains a good idea, regardless of its source.
 
 
-18 # Timaloha 2013-09-15 10:20
Having Assad admit to having chemical weapons and giving them up under international supervision wasn't just a good idea, it was a GREAT idea. But it was an idea first expressed by SecState Kerry, NOT Putin. The notion that this was some inspired brainchild of Putin's
 
 
+22 # tigerlille 2013-09-15 13:38
Timaloha, Kerry threw his great idea out as an example of a notion that was so ludicrous, no one would take it seriously. Don't get too carried away with giving Kerry credit.
 
 
-1 # Timaloha 2013-09-15 10:22
Continued......

Is disingenuous.
 
 
+49 # Smiley 2013-09-15 11:23
What does it matter whose idea? The Syrian government has chemical weapons, the rebels have chemical weapons. Heck, WE still have giant stockpiles of nerve gas what is it 10 years after we said we'd get rid of them? Yes, I think it's time to put the UN in charge of getting rid of ALL the chemical weapons, white phosphorus and depleted uranium too.
 
 
+22 # James38 2013-09-15 12:55
Getting rid of chemical weapons is fine, but don't equate DU with the rest of them.

Instead, collect all DU in a secure stockpile and use it as fuel for the next generation of Nuclear Reactors.

The LFTR (Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor) was built and tested between 1965 and 1975. It uses a molten salt fuel mixture that can not explode or melt down. The reactors need no backup generators and no huge cooling towers. They are so safe that they can be left unattended and no matter what happens, all they do is shut themselves down (cold shutdown) automatically. That is not just "fail-safe", that is "walk away safe".

LFTR do not cause proliferation potential; instead they can be used to "burn" existing stockpiles of DU, plutonium, weapons grade materials, and present stockpiles of "Nuclear Waste" as fuel, solving the storage problem.

Using the DU as fuel, along with the rest of the existing materials (Nuclear waste, etc) will provide the world with energy for many years without mining more fuel. Also, Thorium is about as abundant as lead, and represents a nearly inexhaustible energy source.

We need to push the government to restart the LFTR/MSR (Molten Salt Reactor) program immediately.

Climate Change is a far worse problem than most realize The IPCC in its latest report has once again been too conservative. Saying Climate Change is 95% likely to be human caused is like saying you are 95% pregnant.
 
 
+7 # Unicorn144 2013-09-15 13:33
Utterly brilliant; no doubt you will be ignored by all and sundry, as those who make as much sense as you do are usually fated to complete rejection and permanent pariah status: guaranteed, and automatically.. ..my prayer? don't stop, and don't give up...

..Bless thee in the Name of my Father Jesus
 
 
+9 # Michael Lee Bugg 2013-09-15 18:45
James38, I hate to digress from the story, but I read a little about the Thorium for fuel thing a few months ago and the article I read said we decided to stick with Uranium because we could not make bombs out of Thorium! We just love war too much in this country.
 
 
+5 # James38 2013-09-16 00:24
Michael, your information is correct as to the history. Uranium reactors can convert U238 to Plutonium, which is weapon material.

However, now the situation is different. The world has tons of plutonium that need to be disposed of. The LFTR reactor can "burn" plutonium, and other "Nuclear Waste" as fuel, eliminating the storage problem.

Also we are now faced with the global threat of severe disasters due to Climate Change. Human Society, presently an oxymoron, must advance to the level where we give up our war games and international cut-throat competition, and work together to combat the universal threat of Climate Change.

If we fail to do so, we will suffer immense damage, starvation, drought, land loss due to ocean level rise, etc. Just the threat of the expense of losing all major sea level cities, airports, and shipping facilities will hopefully wake our leaders up to the necessity for true cooperation. If we achieve that degree of awareness and maturity, the LFTR will clearly emerge as one of the essential tools for energy production in a cooperative world.

There is simply no other viable alternative - either to development of the LFTR, or the cooperation necessary to do so.

Read "Thorium - Energy Cheaper Than Coal" by Robert Hargraves

"Super Fuel - Thorium, the Green Energy Source for the Future" by Richard Martin

Martin's book has the history of the development of Nuclear Reactors, including the problem you mention. Very interesting.
 
 
+1 # mjc 2013-09-16 07:31
Because the US knows just how we acquired chemical or nuclear weapons, they are completely suspicious of Iran, just as Israel is. When you have your own, you don't anyone else to have some sort of equitable system of their own. But climate change is still...to most Congresspersons ...just a liberal threat that CANN'T be real. Some of the world's biggest hypocrites live between the Atlantic and Pacific ocean.
 
 
0 # robcarter.vn 2013-09-18 23:08
[quote name="James38"] Michael, your information is correct as to the history. Coincidentally James 38 it was James the 1st caused the start on USA ANYHOW.
Pilgrims (US), or Pilgrim Fathers (UK), is a name commonly applied to early settlers of the Plymouth Colony in present-day Plymouth, Massachusetts, United States. Their leadership came from the religious congregations of Brownist English Dissenters who had fled the volatile political environment in England for the relative calm and tolerance of 16th–17th century Holland in the Netherlands. Concerned with losing their cultural identity, the group later arranged with English investors to establish a new colony in North America. The colony, established in 1620, became the second successful English settlement (after the founding of Jamestown, Virginia, in 1607) and later the oldest continuously inhabited English settlement in what was to become the United States of America. The Pilgrims' story of seeking religious freedom has become a central theme of the history and culture of the United States.
By this time, non-English European colonization of the Ame
 
 
-2 # Cassandra2012 2013-09-16 10:42
hmm. this site is infiltratec by s.o. who just wiped away my comment before I could send it....
still, my coment was yes, but "verify" --remember this is still Putin (the ex-KGB head who a,ong other things exiled minimally dangerous Pussyriot girls to Sibeeria!) He is hardly a 'man' to be trusted. Tread carefully!
 
 
+95 # Merschrod 2013-09-15 08:04
For folks who found Putin's critque distasteful or sickening it is time for reflection - were you ill just because of from whom it came, or was it that plus the fact that it was the truth about what the US has become compared with our image of self?
 
 
-13 # tonenotvolume 2013-09-15 10:30
What Putin says about the US is mostly true but c'mon all you Putin for Peace people. Do you really think that the "plea" was not just a quasi-dictator using the situation to his advantage? A brilliant PR strategy possibly but a real gesture towards peace? Not a chance. In this case Reevell reveals the reality.
 
 
-10 # hammermann 2013-09-15 16:19
No, Putin is a big and unreconcilable thug- he couldn't care if a million die in Syria, as long as his precious naval base- the ONLY one outside of Russia and in the strategic MED- is safe. The Assads are his buddies, and where did their chemical weapons come from initially? Even a broken watch is right twice a day, but seriously, I think the slaughter will now escalate, since Bastard Bashir realizes he has 2-3 month grace period- they already are gloating how "Russia defeated the US".

On the other hand, forcing Snowy to STAY IN RUSSIA with their full-court press threats + bullying is one of the most retarded things the US gov has ever done. Those secrets are worth hundreds of millions, esp to Russia, and Snowy is living on borrowed time- from Mafiya freelancers to CIA hitmen (see SafeHouse) to FSB to Chinese, his life is meaningless if they can get ahold of them.
 
 
+3 # pros54 2013-09-15 17:22
"Even a broken watch is right twice a day,"

It takes a person not blinded by idealism to recognize those times when that broken clock is correct.
 
 
-7 # hammermann 2013-09-15 18:54
It takes a person who recognizes violent hypocrisy to discount self-serving moralizing from a guy who turned a messy but thriving democracy into a barren monoculture of one-man rule. Syria is a horrendous conundrum BECAUSE Vlad the Impaler blocked any action that might have helped the rebels and stemmed the slaughter BEFORE the jihaddis got involved. He has alot of blood on his hands. And spare me the drone analogies- those target people who mostly are mass killers that would love to vaporize your city. Slowly removing these nasty chemical weapons (till a UN inspector is killed and they flee) won't stop the mad dentist from blasting his people with anti-personnel bombs, napalm, incendiaries, etc.

The hyperbole about WW3, war spreading in some domino effect, etc is foolish- no such thing happened with Bosnia/Kosovo/S erbia, instead a vicious 6 year civil war was ended cleanly in 2 weeks. We have no such clear or determined policy here, so the effect will just be a mild deterrent to using gas.
 
 
-2 # James38 2013-09-16 00:28
Well said, hammermann.
 
 
+18 # Vincent L. Guarisco 2013-09-15 16:50
@ tonenotvolume - Nope. I woefully disagree. Pat Reevell is full of it. Putin did the right thing and took the "legal" high ground. Thus, just like many others around the world (including a majority of my citizens here in the U.S., our voices were heard: We are sick and tired of America fighting dishonorable wars of choice for profit. How about our own country using illegal banned weapons that cause undue suffering and death of millions? Depleted uranium (death unlimited), phosphorous in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc...

Even my own father who bravely fought WWII and Korea was used as a test animal in the Bikini Atoll in 1946 when the war department decided to drop two bombs bigger than the ones we shamelessly dropped on Japan. And don't forget about the countless others exposed to radiation after several hundred more detonations during the cold war. I would add, after my father got exposed to radiation, they denied he was exposed and heartlessly swept him under the carpet and waited for him to die.

Truth is, the world needs to reign-us-in. Sadly, our politicians do not serve our best interest. This ongoing war scenario is a national disgrace. Our own worst enemy is within.
 
 
+66 # guomashi 2013-09-15 08:31
This article is an embarrassment to America and Americans. It is hard to believe anyone can read this without suffocating from the irony. The author writes:

"...wrote Putin, whose ruthlessness against Chechen terrorists is legendary"

oh really? compared to America's drone program which is merely just, honest and never hurts the innocent?

further:
"The man who has been accused of presiding over a series of politicized show trials in his own country wrote, "The law is still the law, and we must follow it."

if it weren't so tragic it would be funny after recent revelations about the NSA etc. etc. etc. America has nothing to say that can place itself above Putin in this or any other regard.

The fact is most of what Putin wrote is true: we need to follow the rule of law (are you listening America?) and pursue peaceful diplomatic methods as much as possible.

As for his final statement: "we must not forget that God created us equal"...
it would not surprise me to learn that most Americans don't even know the source of that reference, which is our own founding document.

Those politicians who feel the need to vomit at being schooled in good behavior are nothing more than simple minded jingoistic demagogues whose mental capacities are as weak as their poor little abused tummies. Sadly, Americans elected them.
 
 
+58 # marigayl 2013-09-15 10:18
And let's not forget our "show trial" of Chelsea Manning and the refusal to release Lynn Stewart from prison (and hers was a show trial for what was only nominally a crime) in order that she could die of terminal cancer at home. The American system of justice is what makes me puke.
 
 
-18 # James38 2013-09-15 13:01
Guomashi, In reference to "...wrote Putin, whose ruthlessness against Chechen terrorists is legendary"

You say "oh really? compared to America's drone program which is merely just, honest and never hurts the innocent?"

Comparing the drone program, which has killed some innocent people, to the massacre by Putin in Chechnya, is absurd.

The rest of your argument is nonsense, since you gloss over the fact that Putin is a dictator who wants more power, and is supporting a madman (Assad) who is massacring Syrians only to cling to power.

Remember that Assad started the violence by murderously attacking peaceful demonstrations of Syrians who were only asking for free and honest elections.
 
 
+2 # Unicorn144 2013-09-15 13:38
Shall we also mention the fact that Czar Putin clandestinely ended democracy in Russia? And that any journalist or writer or reporter who gets too close to him or the power structure vanishes or is killed by paid thugs: liquidated, KGB style, almost immediately? Don't forget that stunt where he walked off with a fellows Super Bowl diamond ring, and never eve looked back??? he's a bold-faced thief and murderer: period...
 
 
+12 # Phlippinout 2013-09-15 14:08
MY murderer is better than your murderer. Oh really?
 
 
0 # Eddie G 2013-09-16 12:44
"Remember that Assad started the violence by murderously attacking peaceful demonstrations of Syrians who were only asking for free and honest elections"
The CIA has been messing around in Syria since at least 2006. The demonstrations were neither peaceful nor spontaneous. I will post a link below.
 
 
+1 # Eddie G 2013-09-16 12:52
Here's the link I mentioned in my other reply: http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2013/09/u-s-backed-syrian-opposition-years-before-uprising-started/?utm_source=The+Big+Picture+Updates&utm_campaign=dd08f009c2-big_picture_email&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_662cf1de86-dd08f009c2-39136013
 
 
-2 # Cassandra2012 2013-09-16 10:47
The same 'rule fo law' that exiled the girl singers of PussyRiot to Siberia?? Because Putin is so small a man that his is threatened by a sing8ng group of women? or using them to further his ends with the Orthodox church? or ...
 
 
+31 # nohbagg 2013-09-15 08:38
Let's make something perfectly clear: The American People do not want to join the fighting in Syria. Just because Russia agrees does not give us credibility. We give Russia credibility. We believe our decision is correct for America and those joining our cause might deserve our gratitude for their support but they are not hijacking our decision and our call for peace.
 
 
+20 # indian weaver 2013-09-15 08:54
No matter Putin's history, he can legitimately humiliate Obama and his cabal of assassins, torturers and terrorists. I'm cheering Vladimir for his opposition to Obama's continued illegitimate lawlessness domestically and internationally . No one can say it with a larger international stage than Putin, for good and / or bad reasons, who cares. Obama needs to be humiliated constantly until he flees office in a few years. Obama will have to hide in internal exile, hoping to evade assassination, same as dubya and dick the prick.
 
 
-12 # James38 2013-09-15 13:10
Comparing President Obama to the war criminals GW Bush, Dick Cheney, and Condoleezza Rice is just plain foolish.

Obama has steadily tried to create a more rational policy.

He is correct to threaten Assad with force. The murder of children along with innocent adults with chemical weapons is something that should make any sane human want to do whatever it takes to stop the madman Assad.

Putin wants to ignore this? He is just another dictator. Only he is more clever at propaganda. He has identified and manipulated the confusion of US citizens, many of whom are making excessive criticisms of President Obama.

Is President Obama perfect? No, but he is so much better than what went before, the stupid lunatic war criminal Bush, that what we should focus on is finding someone even better to replace him, not exaggerating criticism of him.
 
 
+1 # hammermann 2013-09-15 16:28
well lets see I vote thumbs up and it registers as thumbs down. Then the next one doesn't register. Is the anti-American bias now cooked into comments too? Obama has done some bad things, esp to journos and whistle blowers but I lived in Russia for almost 3 years, and Putin puts people who challenge or protest him in jail for decades. Search for terror99.org to see what ol Vlad is really capable of. Not sure it still exists- it was pet project of Berezovsky, #1 on VVP's hit parade- oh... what happened to him??
 
 
+1 # Rick Levy 2013-09-15 19:06
The "progressives" who vote thumbs down against those who challenge their adoration of Assad among other positions are symptomatic of how the left has strayed so far from its roots. To their thinking, America and Israel can do absolutely no right while Assad and his ilk can do no wrong, ever.
 
 
+5 # James38 2013-09-15 21:17
Hammerman, the up/down voting on this site needs to be changed. Now all we see is a running total, which tells us very little. What we need is simply the total up votes and the total down votes. We then see all activity, and we can actually tell which number is higher. We don't need RSN to do our adding and subtracting for us.

I have mentioned this numerous times and have thus far been ignored.

How about it, RSN??? Can we hear from you on this issue??
 
 
+11 # Kootenay Coyote 2013-09-15 18:16
"He is correct to threaten Assad with force. The murder of children along with innocent adults with chemical weapons is something that should make any sane human want to do whatever it takes to stop the madman Assad."

How about the madmen Bushs in Iraq with their White Phosphorus & DU? What sane human beings have been allowed to deal with them?
 
 
+3 # James38 2013-09-15 20:58
Kootenay, one of the decisions by President Obama that I do not agree with was not to prosecute GW Bush, Cheney, and Condoleezza Rice as War Criminals. They obviously would be convicted if they ever were taken to the world Court.

It is evidence of the immense power still held in the US by the combination of the Far Right and the AynRandian crazy wingnut part of the libertarians that prosecuting Bush et al for War Crimes has not happened. The US needs to come clean within and for itself, and for the world.

We have had too much of sweeping grotesque crimes, by various US administrations , under the rug.

Perhaps we could start by admitting that the horrible mistake we made by removing Mohammed Mossadegh, the first Democratically elected president of Iran, from office, was the beginning of the present horror show in Iran. We caused that mess by the worst foreign policy gaffe until Vietnam, and that has been nearly equaled by the grotesque "War of Lies" imposed on Iraq by GW Bush and company.

We need to clean house and move on.
 
 
-11 # James38 2013-09-15 13:27
Indian weaver, your comment is over the top. Could you discuss real issues so we could actually see what is behind your condemnation of President Obama?

Putin is backing a madman, Assad, who is massacring Syrians only to cling to his power.

Assad started the violence in Syria by murderously attacking peaceful demonstrators who were only asking for free and honest elections.

Assad's father massacred thousands of Syrians who rose up against him. Assad is just continuing the family tradition of bloodthirsty power.

Do you object to efforts to stop Assad? Do you think Assad should be considered a legitimate President of a legitimate government? Or is he a war criminal and murderer who should be ousted and tried for crimes against humanity?
 
 
+4 # pros54 2013-09-15 17:28
Indian weavers comment about Obama is over the top, and calling Assad a madman falls into that category too.

Do you think the house of Saud is a legitimate government?
 
 
+1 # James38 2013-09-15 21:42
pros54, you think Assad is not a madman?

What, then, is he? A nice successful dictator who is managing to cling to power by murdering thousands of people? Just what a nice dictator needs to do when his power is threatened?

Aside from that, what does the House of Saud have to do with it? That is an unrelated question, although an interesting one.

The "House of Saud" is a "Family dictatorship" in a somewhat different sense from that of Assad. Legitimate? Should any dictatorship be considered legitimate?

I don't think so, and if not, what does that imply about the de-facto dictatorship of Putin?
 
 
+62 # ChristopherCurrie 2013-09-15 09:02
In fact, it is in Russia's "national interest" to attempt to halt a sequence of events that could easily trigger World War III.
 
 
+18 # RobertMStahl 2013-09-15 09:08
This is NOT about Syria. There is a fool born every minute. Could anything be more sickening than supporting the agenda of Washington where Norman Dodd proved, since 1909, has bringing about the end to civilization?
 
 
+66 # Oscar 2013-09-15 09:09
"I almost wanted to vomit." Sen. John McCain (R-Arizona) tweeted: "Putin's NYT op-ed is an insult to the intelligence of every American."

This is (in Putin's Op-Ed) what makes SOME Americans feel insulted:

"It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal."

Americans' declaration of exceptionalism lend itself to ridicule. Putin put it very well.
 
 
+46 # guomashi 2013-09-15 09:49
Quoting Oscar:
"I almost wanted to vomit." Sen. John McCain (R-Arizona) tweeted: "Putin's NYT op-ed is an insult to the intelligence of every American."

This is (in Putin's Op-Ed) what makes SOME Americans feel insulted:

"It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation."
There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal."

Americans' declaration of exceptionalism lend itself to ridicule. Putin put it very well.


Let us not forget that Russia has direct experience and therefore the absolute right to make this true statement. They were invaded by a self-proclaimed "master race" and suffered some 30 million dead as a result. It is a lesson they know only to well and one we have yet to learn.
 
 
+37 # John Escher 2013-09-15 10:51
Quoting Oscar:
"I almost wanted to vomit." Sen. John McCain (R-Arizona) tweeted: "Putin's NYT op-ed is an insult to the intelligence of every American."

This is (in Putin's Op-Ed) what makes SOME Americans feel insulted:

"It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal."

Americans' declaration of exceptionalism lend itself to ridicule. Putin put it very well.


Yes, Menendez, McCain, Graham and the other warmongers are "an insult to the intelligence of every American."
 
 
+42 # jwb110 2013-09-15 09:10
Is having a long term plan about Chechnya and Dagestan any different than the Bush/Cheney reasoning that if we fight them over there we won't have to fight them over here.
I am not a big fan of Putin but he is no more cunning, more or less, then the average Washington Politician. Russia's human rights history has been bad since the Tzars. They are used to a system of oppression that suits their world view. Whoever is in power becomes the Father of All the Russias.
Politics is the art of the possible. I think that a sole Super Power identification has led the country astray. Russia may proved that balance. And lord knows, Washington played right into his hand.
All we are really looking at is geopolitics the way it really works. Washington thought they could rule by holding the world in stasis. Time change, the world moves one, and the US has to stop shoveling shit against the tide.
 
 
+24 # guomashi 2013-09-15 09:54
[quote name="jwb110"]I s having a long term plan about Chechnya and Dagestan any different than the Bush/Cheney reasoning that if we fight them over there we won't have to fight them over here."

Yes, it is profoundly different. Dagestan and Chechnya are Russian republics. The situation there is more akin to America's civil war than to America's economic imperialism.
 
 
+2 # hammermann 2013-09-15 16:34
Yes, Russian Muslim republics that were murdered and oppressed for 200-300 years. It's like if we invaded and took over Mexico- killed half (easily true over the centuries), but the insurgency never died over 2 centuries. Russians think the Chechens are animals (and they are pretty fearsome mofos) or cockroaches- the only good one is a dead one.. and Chechens feel the same way. I wrote a bit about them in the first Chechen War and the Boston Bombing.
 
 
+7 # Douglas Jack 2013-09-16 08:23
hammerman, In case you are not aware of American & Mexican history, USA did invade & take over 2/3rds of Mexican territory through false-flag wars. Mexicans are some 85% 1st Nation blood, so they represent many 10s of 1000s of years of history. We still treat these 1st Nation Hispanic speakers as persona non-gratis in the land of their ancestors, while we put up our 'Amusement-Park s & massively consumptive unhappy 'burbs'. Americans treat the original inhabitants like animals, exposing them to massive doses of pesticides & now GMO's, poor water as they try to make a living from their traditional knowledge of the living world. Then again, the lies we are telling about Syria while we are the Sarin Nerve Gas manufacturers, arms merchants, biosphere destroyers etc., need our attention. We can do something about our country! https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/e-history/8-nuclear-war
 
 
+4 # hammermann 2013-09-16 09:27
Yes, you're right- we did take a huge chunk of what was Spanish? and Mexican lands, and I guess our genocide, thanks to the Indians lack of immunity, was far more effective. When I was a kid they said there were 1 mil Indians on USA when the white man landed, now they think 20 mil, but 85% perished in the first 40 years after first contact. Cortez? landed around the Gulf in 1519, never went more than 100 mi inland, 20 years later the entire rich advanced Mississippian culture was gone 900 miles up the river, villages abandoned cause of the white man's plague.

I read the actual 1840 books about it in a Hawaii library, in Kealakekua where Cap Cook landed in 1778 (where I lived)- by the time of the book 85% had died of smallpox, chicken pox, VD, flu, measles, etc.
 
 
+12 # Saberoff 2013-09-15 09:30
Well well: A friend of a friend is my friend(?)

Perhaps the answer to the dilemma of Americans siding with dictators is for our own leaders to stop being dictators(?)

What is Reevells point in this column? That we should come to our senses and hate the Russian menace: the way it should be?

We, The People of the World, recognize truth whenever and wherever we find it.

Obama comes out looking fine in this (unless Kerry's supposed quip really was just accidental). Our lauded two parties will decide the answer (oppositely, of course), and we can take our respective seats behind them.
 
 
+40 # wrknight 2013-09-15 09:41
So what? That doesn't invalidate his plea for peaceful negotiations in Syria.

There's a lot of things about Putin that I dislike and a lot of his policies that I disagree with. But when he's right, he's right. The same thing is true about every American politician. Obama has done some good and he's done some harm. He was right on health care, but he was wrong on the banks and he was wrong on bombing Syria.

So Putin won't be the first "holier than thou" politician and he won't be the last. But it appears to me that the author is being somewhat "holier than thou" in his criticism and, in so doing, he is only distracting readers from the real issue which is why we shouldn't bomb Syria.
 
 
+12 # Kasandra 2013-09-15 11:05
This is Putin's chance to speak up from his point of view. If we really want Democracy, then let him speak without criticism!
 
 
-3 # James38 2013-09-15 21:45
Huh? We are not to criticize Putin?

Meanwhile every halfwit is slamming Obama for being every kind of stupid, awful etc?

How does that work?
 
 
+28 # David Starr 2013-09-15 09:44
Quoting: "U.S. Senator Bob Menendez (D-New Jersey), chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, told CNN, "I almost wanted to vomit." Sen. John McCain (R-Arizona) tweeted: "Putin's NYT op-ed is an insult to the intelligence of every American.""

Friggin idiots!

Although "having skeletons in his closet," Putin at came out with courteous gesture. U.S. leaders act like they don't peace by dismissing Putin's remarks.

Idiots!
 
 
+30 # photonracer 2013-09-15 10:00
John McCain the lying liar of all lying liars! As an Arizonan I know it well. The "Maverick" is just leveraging this for another run. Please just let nature take its course and let him die. Put us out of his misery!
 
 
+9 # Phlippinout 2013-09-15 14:16
He's too old to run and cannot win, ever!
 
 
+32 # reiverpacific 2013-09-15 10:06
"Putin's NYT op-ed is an insult to the intelligence of every American."(quote).
That's a good one, especially comin' from "Mr PTSD untreated" McCain.
What intelligence would that be exactly, when referring to most socio-geographi cally ignorant citizenry on the face of this beautiful globe, which they and their government is doing it's best to desecrate and massacre for fulfillment of their shallow values and greed for instant gratification?
How else would somebody like Dimwits come to occupy and disgrace the most powerful office: Mr. "Is our children learning" and "O' I thought they were all Arabs" when told that he'd be facing Sunnis and Shiites in Iraq.
Putin is certainly no sweet shrinkin' violet but can't we at least embrace anybody in a position of power and quit trying to second-guess their motives, who is trying to keep the match from being lit in the tinder box which is Syria, with the entire region and beyond poised to jump in to the looming conflagration for many reasons and motives, from theocratic anger to pure internecine hatred and the ultimate long-planned control and policing of the region -if anything is left of it- from the massive US embassy in Baghdad.
At least Putin is able to see this and try to do all he can to avoid it.
What's Obama/Kerry's excuse?
 
 
+29 # srpmmp 2013-09-15 10:12
Preoccupied with personalities, we're losing sight of the forest for the trees. In comparison to the possibility of a Syria without chemical weapons, who cares if Putin, Obama, Kerry, or whoever initiated this step? If successful, such weapons might be destroyed, be out of hands of Assad and not fall into hands of rebels, including al-Nusra, a faction allied with al-Qaeda among the rebels McCain is keen on helping. In the end disarmament requires cooperation of all players, and bravo to all if they succeed.

All the speculation on Putin's reasons for op-ed piece is trivial compared to opening a door for disarmament. Or was Kerry's comment in London the beginning of it all? But why care when an agreement might be reached and distruction of CW accomplished?

Russia arming and backing another nation is hardly unique: US has unbalanced equation between Israel and Palestine for 70 years, still does so. We overthrew Mosadeq in Iran to crown the last Shah and supplied him arms for decades.

We should look to see how far the world can run with this move in Syria and see if we can't reduce arms and tensions in the area. Forget the game of personalities and look at the history possibly being made. And we aren't bombing Syria, which violates UN Charter, could backfire, and which we cannot afford. Thanks to one and all responsible!
 
 
+24 # Kasandra 2013-09-15 10:18
He didn't "plead," he negotiated and took a stand for peace!
 
 
-7 # tpmco 2013-09-15 10:34
Well that article was 10 pounds of horseshit in a 2 lb can.
 
 
+6 # dlalji@hotmail.com 2013-09-15 11:23
Putin is no angel among his herd but he can call a camel when he sees one.
 
 
+4 # Saberoff 2013-09-15 12:28
If it walks like a duck......
 
 
+21 # Inspired Citizen 2013-09-15 11:27
John McCain is an insult to American's intelligence. He's a knee-jerk hawk with ZERO credibility on peaceful resolutions of conflict.
 
 
+20 # L H 2013-09-15 11:43
I'm not sure Patrick Reevell came close to stating the real reasons for Vladimir Putin's Syria Op-Ed piece. Did Reevell mention the financial world, the bankers, the IMF and its historical intent to create debt in every country in the world for control of same? Putin is smart enough to keep track of this source of power. Could the real reason for Putin's Op Ed piece be the battle going on for Financial Dominance in the world when the West's banking dominance is slipping badly? China now has power, so the Western bankers do not rule supreme. The US has been used by the corporate and banking cartels until it is on its last legs of belief in the dollar.

Maybe, Putin has broader vision to negotiate with all the Asian, SA, and other countries realizing that this has to be done for a reasonable future.

Obama's and Kerry's reaction to Syria looks like a desperate attempt to use war to keep the dollar alive. Everyone hears the hollow and faked emotional cry they make about moral reasons to invade yet another country when the US is guilty of using chemical weapons in multiple invasions and wars.

It's time for the US to accept a humbling in the world and stop thinking we're special. We're not. Putin's right. The only thing exceptional is the human spirit to persist in spite of tyrants, war mongers, and power cartels. The world has had enough of killing, war, manufactured diseases, and bankers manipulating everything for profit and control.
 
 
0 # brux 2013-09-17 05:21
How do you know that this story about the world bank and debt and all the surrounding mythology has anything to do with the problems of the world? How do you know it is not just a distraction floated by the CIA to manipulate you?

Throw in a few flowery comments against fascism and tyranny and you can sell the people here at RSN anything and spike the vote count.

What is it you think you are talking about when you say the US?
 
 
+2 # Sheilah 2013-09-15 12:08
I am thrilled with Russia and the UN being involved and hopeful that this may bring more sanity to the Middle East - especially some kind of agreement about Al Queda and the Muslim true believers.

My hunch is that this was planned at least a week before Kerry's comment. We are the bad cop and Russia is the good cop. Kerry is not one to have a loose mouth. If true I think it is brilliant. I also believe that the threat of the US bombing some part of Syria just once did have a huge influence on Russia and Syria.
 
 
-1 # brux 2013-09-17 05:22
The UN really has not worked very much since its inception ... it's kind of hard for me to get thrilled by that.
 
 
+6 # aljoschu 2013-09-15 13:26
No, the moral high ground is certainly not where you would usually find Putin - it is certainly where you would find people such as Obama, George W. Bush and John McCain, et. al.

It is because Putin has not been such a brazen loudmouth on the international stage of human rights propaganda and manipulation of the public as his American counterparts. America should be aware that the world is disgusted and fed up with the prayer wheel type pseudo-moral justifications of their middle-east policy which cannot be called anything else than imperialistic and autistically focussed - as usual - on their own national interests of expansion of power and influence - at any price. To pursue this goal, America is willing to break national and international law, human rights and international conventions.

Patrick Reevell, the author of this article, seems to have lost all sensible measure of reason and appropriateness .
 
 
+10 # tigerlille 2013-09-15 13:46
I don't take what Putin or Obama says at face value.

But Putin's obvious delight does give me a chuckle.
 
 
+7 # aljoschu 2013-09-15 23:17
Quoting tigerlille:
I don't take what Putin or Obama says at face value.

But Putin's obvious delight does give me a chuckle.


Very wise to not take both autocrats at face value.

However, what gives me a chill is the American mandra of "all options are on the table" - no matter from which US president of the last 50 years. And with those "options", there is no doubt, you guys certainly don't mean peace talk or gummy bears - you mean the use of weapons of mass destruction. Don't kid yourselves, Americans, that message has been unmistakably understood by the world.

And meanwhile all of you take it for granted that the rest of the world will accept that you spy on our private letters, our bank accounts and even on our elected government officials. Don't take it for granted that we will continue to accept that forever, Americans.

The recent Iraq war, which you ignited based on lies and deception killed about 1 million people.

Putin made it possible that Assad agreed to have all his poison gas depots registered and hopefully destroyed. Already Obama wants to pressure Iran to abandon their alleged atomic weapons program. At the same time, America's ally in the Middle East, Israel, is stock piling WMD of all kinds - A, B, and C.

Dear tigerlille, this is what gives me a chill!
 
 
+8 # Vincent L. Guarisco 2013-09-15 14:47
Don't blame Putin for taking the high ground that made our own U.S. politicians look like a horses ass.

Truth is, they don't need no help.

Putin did the right thing. Pat, Please take that Israeli paycheck and shove it where the sun don't shine.
 
 
-10 # James38 2013-09-15 14:51
I have been trying to understand all the anti-Obama sentiment. So much of it brings up logically indefensible points that wind up ignoring the horrific massacre that Assad has been conducting in Syria.

Assad started the murders by attacking peaceful demonstrations by Syrians who were only asking for honest and open elections.

The world should have immediately stepped in and stopped the attacks by the dictator. If Assad had been held accountable for those first murders, none of the rest of this horror would have happened.

I now think that much of this confusion may be the result of the insidious lingering effects of the Koch (and other similar) financing of the extreme Ayn Randian hyper-libertari an ideas.

Please read the article

http://www.alternet.org/economy/11-questions-you-should-ask-libertarians-see-if-theyre-hypocrites?paging=off

If you have been fervently slamming President Obama on the Syria issue, to the point that the human tragedy there seems less important than ideas of self and national protection and isolation, read this article. You may be surprised at how much influence Koch and friends have purchased - even over what you have been regarding as your own self-determined opinions.
 
 
+1 # James38 2013-09-15 16:16
Here is a better address for the article:

http://www.salon.com/2013/09/12/11_questions_to_see_if_libertarians_are_hypocrites/

Please read it. It is very informative and very important. We all need to look deeply at the hidden influences on our thinking.
 
 
-4 # ladymidath 2013-09-15 15:58
I'm sorry but I think that Putin has shown his true colours with his war against gays and trans people.
His vicious treatment of Pussy Riot is an international shame and he is cracking down even harder on the people that don't tow his line.
The fact that he has done what everyone believes is the right thing concerning Assad just makes me wonder what is in it for him.
Putin is a leftover from the old Soviet days and it shows.
 
 
+2 # Cassandra2012 2013-09-16 10:58
Yes, what is in it for him!? Indeed.
However, even if it is going to benefit him, a good idea is still a good idea!
 
 
+5 # PoloniusMonk 2013-09-15 16:41
I agree with Senator Menendez in one respect:"We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord's blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal" made ME almost want to vomit.

Pretty much everything Putin said (up until that) is quite true, and pretty mildly put, too, compared to the way I've expressed myself on the same topics in a zillion emails to friends (right, NSA?). The difference between what the US is and does in the world -- and has done for as long as it has had the power to do it -- and the American people's perception of the US is a disconnect all but unimaginable in the modern world, yet there it is. Millions of Americans in miserable poverty -- some of them in prison -- nonetheless have the idiotic notion that theirs is the best country in the world and a force for good everywhere.

Putin is as much a criminal as Bush or Reagan or Obama, but when he's right, he's right. If only there were American politicians somewhere who would speak that truth. If Dr. King were alive he would be saying all those things. All those mealy-mouthed politicians who purport to honor his life's work have got to be secretly glad he isn't around any more to say what he thinks of their wars and their nonstop work for the one percent.
 
 
+4 # geraldom 2013-09-15 17:17
Bill Maher is one of those perplexing people where there are times I like what he says, and there are times when I don't. Like many people in the limelight, he fears looking like a fool. He automatically accepts things as fact that come out of Washington.

For example, Bill Maher accepts at face value the official BS story put out by the Bush admin as to what happened on 9/11, that Bin Laden was behind the 9/11 attacks using 19 hijackers with boxcutters. If you even attempt to prove otherwise to him, he won't even listen and laughs in your face. He absolutely refuses to look at the videos or photographs taken that fateful day of which there are many which completely contradict the BS story put out by the Bush admin.

Based on this article, just because the Obama admin claims that Assad was the culprit in last months chemical attack, a president that has been caught lying almost as much as George Bush, Bill Maher has already found Assad guilty as charged. This is very dangerous because someone like Bill Maher has the ears of the nation, and there are many gullible people out there who trust virtually everything that he says.

Assad and Putin would be damn fools to allow people in to inspect their chemical weapons cache, even UN personnel, without some oversight to make sure that they're not spies to gain access to Assad's military secrets.

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/458-syria/19414-focus-what-if-the-rebels-spread-some-of-the-poison-gas-in-syria
 
 
+9 # bcmarshall 2013-09-15 17:32
Reevell writes, "These critics are right not to take Putin at his word. The Russian leader's overriding motive is to shield Assad from U.S. military strikes - Russia sees no possible gain from Assad's defeat, and it does not care if Syria is democratic or not."

And the US does? Really? Since when? Remember Iran in 1953, Guatemala in 1954, Allende in Chile, the failed Venezuelan coup against Chavez, and Honduras a couple of years ago, among dozens of others?

This is ridiculous. We don't care any more about democracy than Putin does. We want puppets. We want to disrupt the Iran-Iraq-Syria -Lebanon-Greece gas pipeline. We want to follow what Israel wants like the good doggies we are.

For this clown to suggest that the US is the beacon of democracy means he's either on the payroll of someone who wants him to say that or he hasn't looked at history at all in the last 60 years. Either way his conclusions aren't worth the monitor ink they're written in.
 
 
-9 # brux 2013-09-15 18:57
> And the US does?

It's easy to say that, or imply that the US does not have an agenda of democracy, but a lot of the nations the US was accused of bullying now have a democratic tradition, including most of South America. The world is changing and though the US may not be doing everything right there are no nations that are doing very much right.

It's the people of these nations that have to connect, get empowered and speak up, and it is arguable that the US has empowered this more than any nation in history with the Internet and World Wide Web.

You act like the US is on the wrong side of history simply because it has made the same mistakes along with every other country.
 
 
+13 # geraldom 2013-09-15 20:00
brux, your statement implies that any damage caused by the U.S. in the past to other nations wasn't done by design or on purpose, that we simply made a lot of mistakes, that our intentions were all well & good, but that, in the end, we simply weren't aware of the so-called unintentional consequences to our actions.

I'm sorry, brux, but our political leaders aren't that stupid or naive, and common sense alone should've dictated to them that millions of innocent lives would be lost as a result of our actions.

When you state that a lot of the nations the U.S. was accused of bullying have now become democracies, including most of South America, you are once again wrong. These South American countries that have developed into what can be labelled democratic nations like Bolivia & Ecuador & Venezuela have done so in spite of U.S. intentions. The U.S. didn't support these changes & when the U.S. gets the opportunity to do so, it will do to these nations what it did to Honduras in 2009 & in Paraguay in 2012, forcibly overthrow the govt of a democratically elected leader.

brux, the U.S. today just happens to be the biggest terrorist nation in the world. I know that's going to get a whole lot of Americans who think that I'm totally unpatriotic pissed off at me, but, as an American who totally believes in the tenets of our Constitution & our Bill of Rights, I believe that any American who supports whatever the U.S. govt does, even when it's wrong, is being unpatriotic.
 
 
+1 # brux 2013-09-17 05:05
What you feel is your business, it's your associations to what I wrote.

You like to sound democratic, saying you believe in the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights ... but they do not work do they.

Whatever has the hope of working is going to have to evolve by seeing things in a new way, so that is what my comments are usually meant to convey.

The constant droning of the US as the biggest terrorist nation in the world - DOESN'T WORK. No change results from looking at things that way. It is a think Chomsky has said that people pick up because it gets echoed around.

It's not a particularly useful thing to say, especially when the facts and analysis stops there. If the US is the biggest terrorist nation in the world, what does that mean?

The biggest in a field of how many. Or is America the only terrorist nation in the world, is that what you really mean? If America stopped "terrorizing" how would that come about? What would happen - would another country pick up the slack?

In the time of Rome, Rome was the biggest terrorist country. I am trying to get people to understand that we do not sit at the end of history with a few minor problems to tweak, we sit at the active point of evolution that is going to go on and on.

Shift the US out, and any other country into the slot of the US ... do you think you get anything substantially better?
 
 
+1 # geraldom 2013-09-17 16:24
The only way that I can describe your response to my comment is a twisted and contorted justification by you for the United States to continue on its illegal destructive path in this world because the path cannot be changed. In other words, accept what the United States has become and do the best with it.

You admit in your posting that our Constitution and our Bill of Rights have gone the way of the dinosaur by claiming that they no longer work and I have to unfortunately agree with you on that point, but they still define to me what a true patriot really is in this country. Any American citizen that accepts and continues to support what our country has become, a criminal nation, a terrorist nation, again the biggest one of all, one that will lie and deceive its own people and the rest of the world with the sole purpose of taking over the whole world at whatever the human cost may be for its own personal benefit is in fact a traitor, not a patriot.

Any American citizen that accepts and continues to support what our country has become, a country that is more than willing to murder its own people as well as people in other countries by perpetrating false-flag events, as 9/11 was and as this chemical attack in Syria was last month, and blaming them on someone else in order to justify American expansionism throughout the world is as complicit in these crimes as our government is.

Cont
 
 
+2 # geraldom 2013-09-17 16:45
Cont

When I state that the U.S. has become the greatest terrorist nation in the world, I don't claim that other terrorist nations don't exist or never existed in the past. They do & they did. What I do claim is that the deaths caused by the U.S. in its history going all the way back to when we used biological warfare against native Americans in an attempt to kill them off and forcibly take their lands from them all the way up till now, dwarfs the deaths caused by virtually every other nation in the world that can be labeled a terrorist nation.

Once again I will unfortunately say that you’ve made a good point in that if the U.S. actually stopped being a terrorist nation, that some other nation would take its place, but that's no excuse or justification to continue to be a terrorist nation. Therefore, you conclude that since someone else would eventually take the place of the U.S. as the terrorist nation, that it’s perfectly okay for the U.S. to continue on its destructive & murderous path.

For the U.S. to stop being a terrorist nation, it would have to stop interfering in the internal affairs of other countries. It would have to stop arming dictators with weapons to slaughter his own people with. It would have to stop planning & supporting coups in other nations for regime change in order to replace the current leaders with people we approve of and whose interests lie more with the U.S. than with his own people. I think you get the gist.
 
 
+8 # Douglas Jack 2013-09-15 20:34
Brux, Do you act as an intentional foil on RSN in order to drive readers to greater good? 100,000,000 dead in the America's through colonial invasion including the USA, 1,000,000 dead in Iraq with no weapons of mass destruction, 1,000,000 dead in Afghanistan with no Afghani's involved in 9-11. 100's of 1000s dead in Guatemala through US CIA interference with democratic government, 1000s dead in the overthrow of democratically elected Allende by the CIA's Pinochet, Bay of Pigs, Cuba, shooting down of passenger jets, False Flag in Vietnam Gulf-of-Tonkin, 2,000,000 Vietnamese dead, 10s of 1000s dead, millions displaced permanently in Palestine because they happened to occupy the land where Europeans lay title to religious copyright, only nation to use nuclear bombs & twice, only nation refusing to be part of international court of Justice, non-recognition & use through Israel of Enhanced (aka depleted) Uranium in Syria, Sinai, Iraq etc, use of Agent Orange & Purple in Vietnam still with 100s of 1000s of birth defects & cancers, Foisting cancer causing GMO's upon the world, Creating a Syrian conflict by financing & arming 100s of 1000s of mercenaries to deliver Sarin-Nerve-Gas & bringing the world to a potential WW3 & nuclear arms crisis. I can go on with tens of millions of more deaths. There has never been a country in the history of the world who consume & kill to this level of death & destruction. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/e-history/8-nuclear-war
 
 
0 # brux 2013-09-17 05:08
I guess you think people don't know most of this stuff and you are the wise one to tell me, thanks for the lecture.

So ... I wonder if you think you know it all or is there something maybe you are missing? What is the point of showing up at a forum like this and popping off for you? What is it you are trying to accomplish?
 
 
+1 # Douglas Jack 2013-09-17 17:00
Brux, I've gave you thumbs up for "The public debate in the media between all countries ... should be more than welcome by all citizens of everywhere." & ". . . if the media and people would create a machine that could challenge them & correct them when they were wrong or add ideas that they did not think of - we'd all really have something here & the world might start progressing a little bit."

I'd be glad to collaborate with you on making this statement real. I believe you've the key here. The "machine" you're talking about is 'dialectics', the real foundation of journalism, academia, government & law to broadcast & listen to both sides simultaneously.

"I am trying to get people to understand that we do not sit at the end of history with a few minor problems to tweak, we sit at the active point of evolution that is going to go on & on."

I don't know it all & appreciate some of what you write except your tendency to support an American New-World-Order empire status-quo & what seems like a glorification of state violence & murder. Your statement above is important to me. Most don't understand humanity's worldwide 'indigenous' (Latin 'self-generatin g') heritage of peace, which integrated true capitalism, socialism, freedom-of-expr ession, abundance of food, materials, energy & water-cycle was brought about through a much deeper understanding of natural-science . We've turned off our gifts. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/structure/6-holistic-science
 
 
+4 # Khidr 2013-09-16 11:13
when US does not like who the people chose eg. Egypt Morsi's govt., it just pulls the rug from under and now we have the Army dictatorship back, somebody we and Israel can deal with. Shame on us.
 
 
0 # brux 2013-09-17 05:11
And that does not happen at all levels in all places in the world?

We are at the end of a long series of events that have brought us to this point where using the normative tactics of super powers the US has prevailed to the dominant power. Now, we have the luxury of questioning those tactics and discussing them freely ... do you wonder why that is, what brought that about?

Why can't you do this in Russia or China or the Islamic block?
 
 
+6 # Saberoff 2013-09-15 19:36
Right. Wisconsin Public Radio was disgraceful (with most all other U.S. media, I suppose) back on September 11 when all talk was anniversaries: first, and 12th year; But come on, please, public radio! what about 9-11-1973? Anything? Anything at all? Just another day in paradise?
 
 
0 # Khidr 2013-09-16 11:21
What happened in 9-11-1973, oil embargo and assination of King Faisal or something else?
 
 
+1 # Douglas Jack 2013-09-17 06:06
Khidr, 9/11/73, The USA CIA arms & finances General Augusto Pinochet to overthrow the democratically elected government of Salvador Allende in Chile. Many 10s of 1000s of leftists who supported their government were murdered & disappeared over the decades under Pinochet, which followed, all supported by the community (eg communist) paranoid US.

In retrospect, we now understand the pattern of the US, Canada, NATO, Israel at any time being involved in destabilization in over 80 nations at all times, arming dissidents even with poison gas just to overthrow democratically elected governments everywhere. Way before western governments are up to mischief, our 1000s of corporations each with small armies are continually intriguing illegal stealing of lands & resources. We as well strategize to buy elections & place in our own lackeys. Only when these private resource extraction are losing, being exposed or overcome by popular resistance do our foreign western governments intervene militarily & with other coercion.

It seems from this pattern that the only reason is for the US to destabilize governments is for cheap resource acquisition, arms sales to dependent lackeys & the 'mediated' cheap thrill of war. Colonial nations always create False Flag events to blame indigenous peoples for the atrocities which their soldiers & lackeys perpetuate. www.indigenecommunity.info
 
 
+4 # Douglas Jack 2013-09-15 18:36
Putin has people on the ground in Syria. USA's Project for a New American Century & New World Order outlined plans to invade Iraq, Iran, Libya, Syria, Jordan etc. Here's a compilation 'Nuclear-War' of resources on US, Canadian, NATO, Israeli & Saudi deception over Syria's government's supposed use of Chemical Weapons. These are western financed, armed & sourced Foreign Mercenary (over 50% of the supposed 'rebels') delivered atrocities.
The official US government supply of weapons is only the tip of an iceberg generated through massive CORPORATION arms, munitions & false-security flows of Finance-Media-Military-Industrial-Legislative-Terror-Complex.
https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/e-history/8-nuclear-war

We've a case of 'Intellectual-C owardess', for western war-economy nations, who don't know how to engage perceived enemies in equal-time, recorded & published formal dialogues making all war is unnecessary.
Dialectic ('both-sided') equal-time, recorded & published dialogue approaches must become de rigeur in human relations as all humanity understood during our 100s of 1000s of years of 'indigenous' (Latin 'self-generatin g') peace & prosperity. We need to create a culture of dialectic rights in every home, school, company, institution, law & government with processes for every person having the right to challenge events & structures through dialogue. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/structure/both-sides-now-equal-time-recorded-dialogues
 
 
+2 # brux 2013-09-15 18:50
The public debate in the media between all countries ... should be more than welcome by all citizens of everywhere.

Now if the media and people would create a machine that could challenge them and correct them when they were wrong or add ideas that they did not think of - we'd all really have something here and the world might start progressing a little bit.

It's just a question of time until tech hits foreign relations and government.
 
 
0 # Saberoff 2013-09-15 19:46
What the hell are you talking about?
 
 
+1 # brux 2013-09-17 04:56
I'm talking about a public debate in foreign relations between countries implemented in high-tech that everyone can watch and participate in ... you can't understand that from what I wrote? Or did you bother to read and think about it before you pop off rudely? If you left the "hell" out of your comment I might even have taken that as a question, not a rude comment. One might call it democracy.
 
 
+1 # Global Canadian 2013-09-15 23:00
. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal."
Putin said this? Without choking on the bodies of journalists, Chechens, and the freedom of the 10% LGBT? No politicians' words should be accepted without deep and critical analysis. They make all kinds of things sound honourable. We might like that Putin is speaking against war in Syria, but it is SOOOO right to ask why because for sure it is not because he cares about Syrians......or he would not be arming anyone over there. Sigh. Everywhere I look we are taking sides against each other. Why didn't the NYT ask him a few questions and get the answers before they printed his article?
 
 
+3 # RMDC 2013-09-16 04:01
What's up with the snotty tone of this article. Putin has been on the right side of issues many, many times. This statement is just a lie -- "The moral high ground is not usually a place where you'd find Putin - a man better known for jailing critics, persecuting gays and steamrolling smaller countries."

Putin is a really great world leader, one of the best the world has had in a very long time. Try to suggest a better one -- Obama?? Bush?? Tony Blair?

Which smaller countries has Putin steamrolled. This author cannot name one. The war with Georgia was started by Georgia with CIA and Saudi help. Chechnya is not a country but part of Russia. the terrorists in Chechnya are part of the CIA/Saudi private army.

Pussy Riot were not critics. They were a creation of OTPOR, a criminal organization.

I'm sick of US journalists getting all snotty when a foreign leader does something good. This is jingoism at its worst.
 
 
0 # Khidr 2013-09-16 11:19
I hit thumbs up and from +2 the score went to +1, something is messed up with RSS scoring system
 
 
0 # geraldom 2013-09-16 13:50
Quoting Khidr:
I hit thumbs up and from +2 the score went to +1, something is messed up with RSS scoring system


I'll add another point to RMDC through you.
 
 
0 # brux 2013-09-17 04:51
The New York Time's Putin Op-Ed is
like the Nobel Peace Prize for Barack Obama ...
a lame attempt to motivate something in these
people at the top to do better than they have been
doing. It really doesn't seem to be working.

The real problem are the people who are distracted
by this nonsense.
 
 
0 # L H 2013-09-17 12:26
"The real problem are the people who are distracted
by this nonsense."

And who are you, Brux? A "Change Agent" trained to take apart what anyone says? And your contribution to a critical thinking process in a group of people having a discussion is... what?

"I'm talking about a public debate in foreign relations between countries"

Doesn't this begin with people expressing their thoughts and concepts like we are doing here? All of your comments are attacks against expression of personal thought. Do you think a public debate happens out of thin air without the people and all of our thinking?

If you want public debate in foreign relations between countries, then, it would be wise to begin to consider as valuable the thoughts and concepts of the individual people who make up those countries.
 
 
0 # brux 2013-09-17 13:41
> it would be wise to begin to consider as valuable the thoughts and concepts of the individual people who make up those countries.

I'd consider any Russian citizen's opinion more important and less biased than Putin's, that's for sure.
 
 
0 # punch 2013-09-17 16:53
Wow, RSN is a crazy place. I'm talking about its readership, or at least the readers who comment or vote on comments. Before the US election, I was in the minority in seeing Obama as little better than Bush, as a war criminal. But the Obama supporters were in the large majority, downvoting any Obama critical post to triple digit red.

Now, I'm just as skeptical of Obama as then, but I sure as hell know enough about the world to know that Putin isn't any better. Although I agree that the plan is good, and that it's great that it's being followed instead of the launching an attack, that doesn't mean I can't see through Putin's sickening pandering. There is nothing factually wrong in the article by Patrick Reevell, and he doesn't say anything positive about US foreign policy generally or about Obama's hard on for attacking Syria specifically. But it seems the majority of RSN commenters and voters have a naive black-and-white world view: If Obama is bad, then anybody "putting him in his place" has to be good, right? So if anybody says something negative about this good guy... DOWNVOTE!
 
 
0 # mjc 2013-09-18 06:44
Think many of us who post here have had a sort of epiphany as far as Obama is concerned. While never being a big fan, the last presidential election vote was based on one thing and one thing only: Mitt Romney and the cabal behind him is scarier than the Barack Obama on a good day. BUT now pretty sure that the DC system, the inherent focusing of power to the top, has taken hold of Obama. In addition, think he was too appreciative of his being the first black president, too cautious with the powerz that be in DC and not sure enough of the American electorate which has gone with some real kooks in the past twenty years. Putin doesn't have the problem of who likes him or doesn't: he has his power sources sewn up in the former Soviet Union quite well.
 

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