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Taibbi writes: "The most recent contribution to the broadening canvas of dysfunction and incompetence surrounding the SEC is a whistleblower complaint."

Matt Taibbi. (photo: Current TV)
Matt Taibbi. (photo: Current TV)


Madoff and the "Aggressively Clueless" SEC

By Matt Taibbi, Rolling Stone

02 June 13

 

ore and more embarrassing stories of keep leaking out of the SEC, which is beginning to look somehow worse than corrupt - it's hard to find the right language exactly, but "aggressively clueless" comes pretty close to summing up the atmosphere that seems to be ruling the country's top financial gendarmes.

The most recent contribution to the broadening canvas of dysfunction and incompetence surrounding the SEC is a whistleblower complaint filed by 56-year-old Kathleen Furey, a senior lawyer who worked in the New York Regional Office (NYRO), the agency outpost with direct jurisdiction over Wall Street.

Furey's complaint is full of startling revelations about the SEC, but the most amazing of them is that Furey and the other 20-odd lawyers who worked in her unit at the NYRO were actually barred by a superior from bringing cases under two of the four main securities laws governing Wall Street, the Investment Advisors Act of 1940 and the Investment Company Act of 1940.

According to Furey, her group at the SEC's New York office, from a period stretching for over half a decade through December, 2008, did not as a matter of policy pursue cases against investment managers like Bernie Madoff. Furey says she was told flatly by her boss, Assistant Regional Director George Stepaniuk, that "We do not do IM cases."

Some background is necessary to explain the significance of this tale.

There are four main laws that the SEC uses to regulate the financial sector. At least as far as numbers go, the agency has a fairly extensive record of enforcement actions with the first two, which are aimed at the securities markets.

The first of those is the Securities Act of 1933, also commonly known as the "Blue Sky laws," which among other things set down the rules mandating public disclosure of pertinent information to investors in securities. The second is the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, which governs securities already issued, and includes the laws barring insider trading. Both of these laws are primarily intended to prevent fraud in the securities markets.

But the agency's record is a little spottier when it comes to the other two key pieces of legislation, the Investment Advisers Act of 1940 and the Investment Company Act of 1940. These are the agency's main tools for prosecuting fraud and malfeasance involving people who manage other people's money - mutual funds, hedge funds, investment managers. Somebody like Bernie Madoff, who took billions from investors and simply stole the money instead of investing, would largely be regulated under the latter two acts.

Kathleen Furey joined the SEC in September of 2004, starting as a law clerk in the Enforcement Division. She steadily rose within the agency and was promoted three times over the next three years.

Then in 2007, Furey started work on a case that involved Value Line, a high-profile family of mutual funds that was being accused of charging tens of millions of dollars in bogus commissions. The company had appeared on the SEC's radar via a referral in 2004, but the agency's higher-ups had not yet approved a formal investigation, which is necessary for the issuance of subpoenas.

When she tried to take that next step in the Value Line case, Furey says she was denied. This is when she says Stepaniuk filled her in on his "We don't do IM cases" policy. Upset, and convinced that the Assistant Director of the New York office did not have the authority to unilaterally non-enforce two major portions of the SEC's regulatory mandate, Furey appealed to Stepaniuk's superior in the NYRO.

According to Furey's complaint, this official, instead of helping her and paving the way for the investigation to proceed, gave Furey two options. He said she could either recant her statement about being told not to pursue "IM cases," or she could go to the SEC Inspector General.

Incidentally, Furey in her internal arguments over this case specifically warned that the agency needed to begin enforcing section 206 of the Investment Advisers Act, which barred money managers from employing "any device, scheme, or artifice to defraud any client or prospective client." She warned that pursuing cases under that statute "may save the agency from future embarrassment." Section 206 was the exact statute that the SEC ultimately employed both in the Value Line case (many years later), and in the case against Bernie Madoff.

This background is key to understanding the timeline of the SEC's response to both the Madoff story and Investment Management cases in general.

In Furey's complaint, she cites statistics that provide unsettling evidence that there was, in fact, some kind of policy in place that prevented her group from going after investment advisers. During the period from January 1, 2002, through January 20, 2009, Stepaniuk's group did not file a single case under the Investment Advisors Act (IAA) or Investment Company Act (ICA).

During this time frame, Stepaniuk reportedly approached the SEC's Commission 60 times with requests to to file cases or to open formal investigations, which, again, is necessary to file subpoenas. Out of those 60 cases, only one, the Value Line investigation opened on April 18, 2008, was an Investment Management case.

In a not-so-amazing coincidence, April 18, 2008 happened to be the same day that the SEC's Inspector General released a report that in part addressed the office's apparent mishandling of that same Value Line case. In other words, the SEC seemed not to move on Value Line until it became a public issue.

Even more damning, however, was the reaction after the Madoff story broke, toward the tail end of 2008. The scandal was incredibly embarrassing to the SEC, which had failed to investigate Madoff despite being tipped off in extraordinarily detailed fashion by investigator Harry Markopolos over eight years before.

It came out that Madoff had not merely stolen from his clients but not conducted any trades at all, simply bilking money in the most primitive conceivable Ponzi scheme. This meant that the SEC would have been able to uncover the fraud with even the most cursory examination at any time during the fund's existence.

Unsurprisingly, by the start of 2009, the SEC was being hammered by members of Congress in both parties - institutionally a terribly troubling development, given that Congress controls the regulator's budget.

So how did the agency respond? After having conducted no "IM cases" at all for years, that NYRO group's next nine cases from January 2009 on were all IAA or ICA cases.

When I contacted the SEC, I made it clear that if they could produce any evidence that Furey's statistics were off, that Stepaniuk's unit had in fact filed IAA or ICA cases during the relevant time period, then I probably wouldn't write about her complaint.

But when I pressed the agency for specifics on that question, they responded with red herrings.

First, they sent a list of 14 IM cases pursued by the SEC's New York Office between 2006 and 2009. When I asked how many of those were pursued by Stepaniuk's group, it turned out that only one of them was - a case against Henry "Hank" Morris, a top fundraiser for New York City Comptroller Alan Hevesi. But that case was charged in March 2009, right after the Madoff story broke. This was completely consistent with what Furey had claimed, that her group had essentially not pursued IM cases until after Madoff.

When I pointed this out, they sent yet another list of cases, two of which appeared to have been filed by Stepaniuk's group prior to the Madoff case. One of those, SEC vs. Kevin Dunn, involved a stockbroker for MetLife who was accused of swindling the widow of a Port Authority policeman who died in 9/11.

While no doubt a worthy matter to pursue, this, too turned out not to be an "IM case." Dunn was exclusively charged with violations under the old-school '33 and '34 Acts. The only references to the IAA in the entire case were two totally extraneous facts.

One was that MetLife, which was not charged in the case at all and merely happened to be Dunn's employer, was a registered Investment Adviser. Two was that Dunn, as a condition of his punishment, agreed to be barred from any affiliations with any registered broker-dealer or investment adviser in the future. This is a common regulatory/punitive throw-in and had nothing to do with what kind of case it was.

Claiming that this was an IM case was not much different than sending on a case involving a stockbroker who had committed insider trading while flying over a registered Investment Company office in a hot air balloon - and claiming that was an "IM case." It was silly.

The other case I was sent was . . . SEC vs. Value Line!

The fact that the SEC would try to discredit Furey and sell its own sterling record of investigating investment management cases by citing the same troubled investigation that had caused Furey to blow the whistle in the first place should tell you a lot about how disorganized the agency now seems to be.

The SEC did note that the Inspector General, years back, could not find corroborating evidence for Furey's claim that Stepaniuk had told her there was a policy against "IM cases." But what was or wasn't said is not of primary relevance to the story.

What is highly relevant is that Furey was unquestionably on record - in emails and other complaints - complaining about the lack of action in this arena even before the Madoff story broke. And there's little doubt that this unit's actual record of pre-Madoff IM cases in the rest of the 2000s is essentially nonexistent.

This being the SEC, the story unfortunately did not end with a key unit of the agency merely failing to regulate an entire sector of the finance world until a $60 billion Ponzi scheme exploded in its face. In this incident they've also continued to show an inability to deal with whistleblowers, a problem that of course has been epidemic in the last two presidential administrations, but has been particularly acute in the SEC.

Noted author William Cohan described Furey's post-whistleblowing struggles within the SEC in great detail in a Bloomberg piece.

As Cohan explains, Furey went through all the usual nonsense after coming forward and complaining about the failure to bring "IM cases": She was shunned by superiors, kept away from sensitive work and taken off the promotion track.

Moreover, when Furey in 2010 asked then-NYRO director George Canellos if her career was being held back by her whistleblowing, he gave an interesting answer. She says he responded by saying that there were people in the New York office who were "not fans" of what she had done.

Canellos today mans one of the SEC's top jobs. Along with Andrew Ceresney, who worked with new chief Mary Jo White as a partner at her old firm Debevoise and Plimpton, he runs the SEC's enforcement division.

Furey contends that for a time, she was being compensated at a level not commensurate with her actual duties - without getting too wonky, Furey believed she was being paid as an "SK-14"-level civil servant while she was in fact handling the duties of an "SK-16." When Canellos and other officials did not respond to her complaints directly, she requested an external "desk audit," a government procedure in which an outside official assesses the duties of an agency employee.

Furey received a perfect score of 1,760 out of 1,760 from the outside auditor, who agreed that she was working at the SK-16 level and recommended that, if she remained in that position, she be promoted.

The SEC and Canellos instead stripped her of her duties, essentially demoting her and not implenting the recommendation of the desk audit, an action rare enough that the agency's human resources department apparently had to do research to see if it was legal (according to Furey's attorney, this checking was done only after the demotion).

The SEC, meanwhile, contends that Furey only temporarily held the higher position, filling a spot vacated by a promoted official, and that the agency had to demote her. "As a general matter, managers are not permitted to indefinitely assign work above an employee's grade level," says SEC spokesman John Nester. "If there is not a higher level position that has been approved for filling, managers are required to remove the higher level duties."

Beyond that, neither Stepaniuk nor Canellos has any comment on Furey's allegations.

While a lot of this will seem like a meaningless intramural squabble to outside readers, it points to a larger pattern within the agency. For years, people who come forward and try to press the SEC to pursue important cases have often been treated very poorly, if not with outright hostility.

This has been true of people outside the SEC, like Harry Markopolos or Leyla Wydler, who came forward with information about the Stanford Ponzi scheme, only to be ignored by the SEC. Both the Madoff and Stanford cases, which incidentally were both "IM cases," snowballed into far bigger disasters than was necessary because the agency identically blew off those two whistleblowers.

The agency also has a poor record with whistleblowers within the SEC, like onetime investigator Gary Aguirre, who famously won a $755,000 wrongful termination settlement against the SEC after he was fired for trying to press an insider trading case against future Morgan Stanley chief John Mack.

Aguirre, ironically, now represents Furey, and it sometimes feels like we're re-living the same stories over and over again with this agency. The same kinds of blindly political creatures keep getting promoted to the top jobs, while hardworking line investigators who are just trying to do the work keep running into the same kinds of ludicrous intra-office difficulties. They have to get a clue eventually - don't they?


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+88 # tbcrawford8 2013-06-07 17:49
Judge Lind should be disbarred for her flagrant miscarriage of justice...and it's now clear why a regular courtroom was unacceptable to the military. Feeling more and more like a dictatorship in the making. And, of course, the gun owners are threatening a revolution...bu t I suspect it won't be for we the people!
 
 
+109 # lbarish1 2013-06-07 18:25
This is not the country I was born into. The degree of corruption is deeply distressing and mind boggling.From the present to the supreme court, to congress, the military, the FDA, the ERA, Big Pharm, Wall Street, etc. there is no sense of justice. Bradley Manning is not a criminal. We have laws to protect whistler blowers who protect our right to know what this government is doing. Very sad.
 
 
+29 # Califa 2013-06-08 07:44
The corruption has been there for quite some time, at least a century or more. The corruption is not hidden as it used to be. Nowadays they shamelessly shove it right in your face.

**Is nowadays are real word? Ah that's one of the great mysteries of the universe....
 
 
0 # Texan 4 Peace 2013-06-08 16:41
Yes, "nowadays" is a real word. Could you be any more trivial?
 
 
+5 # Nominae 2013-06-08 19:53
Quoting Texan 4 Peace:
Yes, "nowadays" is a real word. Could you be any more trivial?


"Nowadays" is NOT a 'real word'. Except for the fact that "usage" determines acceptable English, and this bastardization "Nowadays" has infiltrated Standard English from "somewheres" in the Ozarks.

I know that it probably *sounds* perfectly acceptable in Texas.

Could you BE any more snarky ? What is more trivial, the question, or someone wiling to take valuable time out of their day to lift a leg on the person asking the question ?
 
 
+2 # Nebulastardust 2013-06-09 16:20
Nowadays has become perfectly acceptable in the USA, at any rate. Languages live and grow and change. It's a natural thing.

One contemptible addition some decades back was the inclusion of "DoctorWelbyish " (since removed) in the USA.
 
 
+5 # bingers 2013-06-09 16:22
Well, I'm from upstate NY originally, and as far back as I go (the 40) nowadays was a common word there. So while I do feel Texas is, generally, a subpar place in nearly every case other than size, belittling Texans for using nowadays is the snarky thing here. And, is snarky a legitimate word. ;o)
 
 
+43 # Kathymoi 2013-06-08 08:59
When I was a kid, there was a joke that contrasted the right of Americans to protest their government with the nonright of Russians (then of the Soviet Union) to protest their government. It went like this: An American says to a Russian, "I can stand in front of the White House and say, 'The president of the United States is a jerk." The Russian replies that he has the same freedom; he can stand in front of the Kremlin and say the president of the United States is a jerk. It used to be a funny joke that made us Americans feel good about the freedom of speech we had. That has changed. To protest our government today is not a freedom that is protected today. It is a crime and likely to be called terrorism.
 
 
+60 # Lowflyin Lolana 2013-06-07 19:05
History will show that the "officials" persecuting Manning were not real judges, generals, Presidents. The hacks serving up tripe about whether Manning is a "hero or a traitor" will be shown to be other than journalists, to a man. All of them are just #%$holes. Each with a role in a deeply toxic farce.

Thank you for your important and very interesting coverage.
 
 
+58 # soularddave 2013-06-07 20:21
This is just NUTS! Please keep trying. Your stay in Washington must be sort of expensive, so let me start off the June appeal for support with a cash donation.

Anyone else want to chip in right now?
 
 
0 # Dion Giles 2013-06-15 01:17
Right on. Disgusted at exclusion of RSN from witnessing the Bradley Manning witch-hunt. Coverage will be costly. Just doubled my monthly RSN contributions for June and July.
 
 
+33 # blizmo1 2013-06-07 21:55
Wow. Renee my monthly subscription despite previous issues I've had with you PLEASE GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS ALL, WE ARE ALL BEHIND YOU. GO, RSN!!!!! You WILL bring on this conversation, whether they like it or not. Bless you.
 
 
+23 # DPM 2013-06-07 22:29
Keep up the pressure. I don't have much money, but I am a monthly subscriber.
 
 
+37 # Richard1908 2013-06-07 22:43
Our Australian Minister for Foreign Affairs, Minister Bob Carr, has washed his hands of Julian Assange (an Australian), Wikileaks and Manning. No surprise there - our Government does as it is told by the American Government - but another indication of how the cards are stacked in every way against Bradley Manning.
 
 
+42 # Billy Bob 2013-06-07 23:19
The military industrial complex will trump the American Constitution until change is demanded.
 
 
+36 # Kathymoi 2013-06-08 08:52
We are demanding. We are demanding. And we are being tasered, arrested and jailed for our protests. And, as in Turkey so in the US, our protests are ignored by the US major media. In Turkey, penquins were covered on major media news shows while millions of people were in the streets of Istanbul protesting the corporate grab of their country. In the US, fashion flaws of actresses get the spotlight while Occupy and Move to Amend are treated as nonexistent. ---We continue to demand.
 
 
+17 # Billy Bob 2013-06-08 13:30
I agree. But, "we" needs to mean ALL OF US. And "demanding" needs to mean MORE than just words, but serious acts of non-violent protest that will have a major impact.

There's only one thing I can think of that can do that: GENERAL STRIKE.
 
 
+6 # Nebulastardust 2013-06-10 08:17
You're not even close to getting a general strike happening and likely never will be. America, Canada and the West in general is full of people suckling the teat of propaganda fed to them on a daily basis.

We've a long, long way to go to protect people in foreign lands from the continued war and war crime from the West and most importantly the USA.

Predator Drones murder on a continued basis in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen and Somalia for certain. How many other places we do not know.
 
 
+15 # grouchy 2013-06-07 23:24
I wonder if they are taking instructions from experts in this kind of activity from previous members of security forces in the Soviet Union countries? Sounding more and more like it's a possibility.
 
 
+22 # reiverpacific 2013-06-07 23:29
The public is at least entitled to a list of those "approved" for access. Still no list!
This alone is heavily indicative of what is to come.
But they can't hide forever from a better-informed world outside of the "approved" US Corporate State chowderhead media.
There is a lot more than just P'v't Manning's fate riding on this show trial.
It might just serve to plunge the US back into further isolation as experienced during the Dimwits/Chain-g ang reign of error and terror and shoot it down to the bottom of the world trust and popularity list, where it is currently at the lower-middle (source; BBC).
Gawd knows how Manning is bearing up during this prolonged lynching but his stoicism and perhaps resignation (or is he being drugged?) should be a spur to world support for his Nobel prize nomination. Sign on at http://act.rootsaction.org/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=5459.
Stuff it all back down their hypocritical throats!
And I hope that they enjoy reading this on RSN's surveilled database.
"Ah fart in their general directions" (Monty Python's Holy Grail). I hope they get a chuckle at some of my daffy scribblings on RSN.
Abb-abb-abb-t-th-th-at's al ffolks: He-heh-heh!
 
 
+20 # LandLady 2013-06-08 07:12
Thank you, Bill Simpich, for your great report. Especially your list of all the foreign media trying to cover this! It is comforting to know that the eyes of the world are on this trial, even while the U.S. military and much of our domestic media are doing all they can to downplay it for American consumption. I sent RSN a check yesterday. Keep on keeping on.
 
 
+10 # RobertMStahl 2013-06-08 07:49
RANDOM?

Complicity to murder and genocide is on trial, and Manning refuses to be complicit. Do we, as human, also? We are the ones on trial, but you cannot call it one. Should we let them convict us without our knowledge?

Hierarchies have lead to garbage gathering police who are deputized to 'take it out,' the garbage which is provided in droves by the central media outlets as lies, or, as a paper-trade. They have to produce so much garbage to successfully alter the cultural landscape permanently, or tectonically, hollowing out under our feet instead of being hallow, or having any predisposition for that. Purposefully, they drive people from their evolutionary design to learn and to participate.

Learning leads to learning-to-lea rn (Bateson) where we would, then, know the 'container' relevant to the learned where both exist together as form, not word. "In the beginning, all was mush and without form," Denial allows proceeding upon no truth at all. This is usury.

We make up for missing truth when being instructed to be in a container that contains none, or, maybe is 50/50. Tricks are not epistemology, or real knowledge, in any event. One needs imagination. Learning, in reality, is not a trick. It would be an oxymoron. If there is any distinction to made, any leap for cognitive powers we could possess, for the power that makes it all just, this is another drama designed, solely, to make us shudder, and is not random.
 
 
+23 # Kathymoi 2013-06-08 08:34
Complicity to murder and genocide is on trial, and Manning refuses to be complicit. Exactly. And that is his crime. He should not reveal the US army secret of inhumanity, lawlessness, and irresponsibilit y, of murder, tortue and sadism. And we should not object to these things done in the name of the US of Exxon Mobil, Citibank, Wells Fargo, etc. Evidently, acceptance of atrocity and criminal abuse is our obligation and if we dare to shun our duty, we risk arrest ourselves.
 
 
+40 # walt 2013-06-08 07:58
This statement may be filled with meaning:

"..A military spokesman said that the media operations center located half a mile away from the courtroom was "a privilege, not a right...."

It seems amazing to hear someone in the US military advise us that they grant privileges. And all while the US tax payers fund their entire lives from salaries and health care to retirement.

This is an indication of the power we have given to a group that is supposed to defend the USA. Now they tell us what our privileges are. And even more frightening will be the day that an American civilian is arrested by the military and indefinitely detained as allowed by the NDAA.

One more clear indicator of Eisenhower's warning about the "military-indus trial complex. It's all out of control!
 
 
+20 # reiverpacific 2013-06-08 11:31
Quoting walt:
This statement may be filled with meaning:

"..A military spokesman said that the media operations center located half a mile away from the courtroom was "a privilege, not a right...."

Well, that's the US attitude to healthcare too and education, innit!? It's only for the elite and privileged.
There's a long way to go before this country joins the "civilized" world -if ever!
 
 
+9 # Jack Gibson 2013-06-08 13:27
Yah, making RIGHTS(!) into so-called "privileges". They don't believe that we have any rights; but are saying, "Here, we're throwing you a bone". The whole system is controlled by evil. That's the way the entire globalist, corporate-fasci st, "international human 'rights'" system was designed. "If you're not privileged enough, we'll withhold rights from you", because they reserve that right to withhold them (see towards the end of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights). In others, the evil and corrupt believe that they are the only ones with rights; everyone else be damned. This is the madness that is now seeking to control us completely; and they expect, if you don't willingly bow down without question, you will be crushed. That is really what the entire world government system is all about, to bring us all to our knees in worship of evil, or be eliminated. Are you finally seeing the meaning of the whole writing on the wall? This is evil's time now, and they have every intention of destroying all independence, free will and sovereignty of human dignity, eradicating it all and turning us all into slaves. Those who don't go quietly will very soon simply be executed. They're already assassinating people who balk against the(ir) chains; and, thus, have begun to purge the resisters. We ain't seen nothin' yet; and, if most of us don't non-violently rise up en masse against the "Big Brother" system (which I don't hold my breath that we'll do), we're all screwed and tattooed.
 
 
+18 # Kathymoi 2013-06-08 08:26
thank you, RSN, for bravely continuing to TRY to tell us what is going on in our country. The headline on Yahoo news this morning was that Parker committed a fashion mistake with the shoes she wore yesterday. I don't know who Parker is, but her picture was there to help identify her if I should care. If you were not shining a light on the real issues of the day, how would we get information? How would we know? I guess that is, likely, the idea behind media control. Indeed, if RSN can be denied access to witnessing the Manning trial, then the public will have no way to know what actually was revealed by the trial. Keep marching!!!
 
 
-12 # charsjcca 2013-06-08 11:04
I have not knowingly talked on a secure telephone since 1963. I am not troubled by the notion. Life goes on. The next presidency will do as the past have done. SNOOP. It is the American way of life. The Unibomber said he had no solution other than what he did. The university system, in his mind, was corrupt and unable to be reformed. Between 1963 and 1978 he operated under the assumption that it was otherwise.
 
 
+5 # Billy Bob 2013-06-08 13:31
Time to just give up, curl in a corner and pick your nose, huh?
 
 
+10 # reiverpacific 2013-06-08 18:37
Quoting charsjcca:
I have not knowingly talked on a secure telephone since 1963. I am not troubled by the notion. Life goes on. The next presidency will do as the past have done. SNOOP. It is the American way of life. The Unibomber said he had no solution other than what he did. The university system, in his mind, was corrupt and unable to be reformed. Between 1963 and 1978 he operated under the assumption that it was otherwise.

What's a "secure telephone"?
I agree that life goes on" (Oobladee-oobla dah!) but this country is becoming more and more like Spain's Franco era and Suharto's Indonesia I'm tired of repeating this), both supported and armed by the "land of the faux-free-to-sh op and the home of the cowed and surveilled".
It's the QUALITY of life we are looking at here and which is endangered!
Te US is becoming more and more like one of these Sci-fi box rooms where the walls keep sliding in on and constricting it's occupants, or the four-poster bed that lowers it canopy in the night to smother it's sleeping occupants.
Wake up and smell the shite -then fight!
 
 
+13 # David Starr 2013-06-08 12:23
I have a strong feeling that there will be hell to pay, sooner or later; but inevitably.

The U.S. Army, as with other entities with the U.S. empire's power structure is ethically bankrupt. The more it protects an monetary empire's interests, the more chance for change.

There is also an NSA entity, PRISM, that is apparently being used to spy on the emails of who knows how many people, foreign and domestic.

The U.S. Constitution has been violated by the very status quo power brokers-and their supporters-who claim to support it. And it's nothing new.
 
 
-9 # egbegb 2013-06-08 20:26
So the IRS, FBI and ATF are progressive and attack conservatives and the Army (the armed forces) attack
progressives.

Is that the message?

Who do you think will win that 'discussion'?
 
 
+4 # bingers 2013-06-09 16:30
Quoting egbegb:
So the IRS, FBI and ATF are progressive and attack conservatives and the Army (the armed forces) attack
progressives.

Is that the message?

Who do you think will win that 'discussion'?


Well, the IRS hasn't attacked anyone since Nixon ordered them to, and that was the liberals, the FBI, for all its' faults has a long horrendous record of attacking liberal groups and still does, although they occasionally go after obvious criminal right wing groups, the brunt of their actions still falls on liberal groups. And the ATF goes after the people committing gun crimes, which is nearly 100% conservative. So, in this case, they do go after conservatives mostly, but it isn't targeting conservatives per se, it's targeting subversives.

And the military isn't attacking liberals per se, they're attacking the first and fourth amendments.
 

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