Rich writes: "Like many, I was chilled by that Times investigation last year essentially saying that President Obama and John Brennan took the position that since they were moral, Bible-reading guys, their assassinations were above reproach (or the law)."
Obama's drone killing policy doesn't seem to have caused an uproar. (photo: Reuters)
America Yawns at Obama's Assassination Policy
09 February 13
Every week, New York Magazine writer-at-large Frank Rich talks with assistant editor Eric Benson about the biggest stories in politics and culture. This week: Obama's assassination memo, Karl Rove's attempted GOP purge, and Tim Geithner's new non-banking job.
arlier this week, NBC News reported on a confidential Justice Department memo spelling out the legal justification for assassinating U.S. citizens affiliated with Al Qaeda. During the Bush years, you were very critical of administration lawyers like John Yoo and Jay Bybee who gave legal cover for torture. Does this new memo concern you?
The good news is that the NBC scoop increased pressure on the White House to do what it should have done long ago - the Justice Department will now permit the Congressional Intelligence Committees to examine documents laying out a fuller legal justification for these assassinations. Of course it's been a concern that the Obama administration, having promised more transparency than its predecessor, had reneged on that vow. If there are going to be targeted killings of American citizens abroad (or anywhere, for that matter) who are charged with no crimes, there must be a legal rationale, and needless to say, a constitutional one. Like many, I was chilled by that Times investigation last year essentially saying that President Obama and John Brennan took the position that since they were moral, Bible-reading guys, their assassinations were above reproach (or the law). Today's Senate confirmation hearings for John Brennan as CIA director must be tough.
In your essay in this week's magazine, you noted the "quiet acquiescence of most Americans, Democrats included, to the Obama administration's embrace of drone warfare." Has that acquiescence surprised you?
Not really. Of course many in the party's liberal base, and many investigative journalists and liberal commentators, have been tracking the Obama administration on this, and in some cases vehemently protesting its actions. These are the same voices that have been debating the movie Zero Dark Thirty. But as I wrote in my piece in the magazine, there are few signs the broader public, Democrats included, shares that op-ed/blogging outrage. Why? Part of it is partisanship: Some Democrats are willing to give Obama a pass on issues that were enraging in the Bush years - they like their president. But I'd argue two other factors are more significant: (1) Obama doesn't advertise what he's doing with the "dead or alive" cowboy rhetoric of Bush and Cheney; (2) Americans turned away from almost all national security issues, from domestic surveillance to the war in Afghanistan, during the Great Recession. Neither the alarming rise of Islamic terrorism in northern Africa nor the Republicans' ceaseless attempt to transform Benghazi into a crisis of 9/11 proportions has made the public pay any more attention to any related issue, from drone warfare to rendition to targeted assassinations.
The Karl Rove-affiliated American Crossroads super-PAC announced that it will be diving into GOP primaries in 2014 in an effort to prevent tea-party insurgents from knocking off more electable Republicans. The far right, unsurprisingly, howled bloody murder. Does the American Crossroads plan have a chance of working? Or is the Establishment fighting a losing war against its own base?
Your last question answers itself: No, because the base of the GOP is a radical right-wing base, and it is going to keep voting for right-wing candidates that share its views in Republican primaries no matter what alternative candidates Rove puts his super-PAC's ad money behind. Besides, there's some Todd Akin even in the candidates favored by the Establishment; Mitt Romney's novel concept of "self-deportation" for undocumented immigrants did at least as much damage to the national GOP last year as Akin's novel theory of "legitimate rape." There's no evidence that Rove knows the difference between a winning and losing candidate, in any case. In 2012, he spent some $100 million of his donors' money on various races and not a single one of his American Crossroads candidates won. Rove was so certain of victory for Romney that even actual returns on election night couldn't convince him that Mitt had lost. So why would he do better at picking winners in 2014? This latest stunt is just an attempt to fleece his disheartened investors out of more cash. Dick Morris - newly jettisoned by Fox News - must be killing himself that he didn't think of it first.
Tea-party insurgent turned Hope of the Party Marco Rubio was chosen to deliver the Republican rebuttal to Obama's State of the Union. These addresses haven't always been kind to the opposition speaker (see Jindal, Bobby). Was it wise of Rubio to accept the slot?
It was inevitable the GOP would turn to Rubio for this spot. Realizing that its radical base will not get behind bipartisan immigration reform even now, the Republican leadership has turned to Plan B: try to persuade Hispanic voters that the GOP is on their side by putting Rubio on TV as much as possible (speaking Spanish as well as English, as he will on State of the Union night). This is the same thinking that led the GOP to throw gospel singers and break-dancers onstage at its 2000 national convention to try to disprove the (accurate) national perception that the party is all white. Rubio will give a far better performance than Jindal's riotous impersonation of Kenneth the Page, but there's no way he'll accomplish the mission of fooling the fastest-growing demographic in the electorate that the Republican party is on its side.
The Twittersphere was sent into a tizzy yesterday when former Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner accepted a position at the Council on Foreign Relations instead of taking a high-paying job at a Wall Street bank. Are you surprised that Geithner didn't immediately cash in on his public service? And what does it say about the Wall Street-Washington revolving door that we're shocked when a Treasury secretary doesn't immediately move into a banking job?
I'm not surprised. Geithner is not stupid, and if he were to follow the example of his mentor, Robert Rubin, and quickly trade in public service for a job at, say, Citigroup, it would confirm every theory about how Wall Street got away with murder when he was at the New York Fed and continued to when he was at the Treasury after the financial meltdown. That said, the Council is a holding pen for public officials choosing future career options. Let's check in on where Geithner is a year from now.
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He won't be where he and all his bankster friends belong -- in Leavenworth.
Just look at the three stooges. Obama the Wimp, Holder the puppet of the Wimp, and Justice Thomas the mute who hasn’t said anything intelligent on the supreme court in many, many years.
What about the hearings on how bad Wall Street is screwing everyone???? Clinton put over 1000 Wall Street Crooks in jail, Bush put 1300 and Obama the Wimp has put Zero, “0”, nada, none, no one in jail! Hello – wake up people!!!
Wall Street, Wall Street, Wall Street. It is all just smoke and mirrors. Until there are two hundred thousand really, really pissed off people on Capital Hill (all at the same time – with base ball bats, or 2 x 2s) raising some serious hell against the Lunatics, absolutely nothing is ever, ever going to happen to these totally bought and paid for by the richest 50 people in the world that are becoming more and more powerful with each passing rigged election thanks to the stupid people.
During WWII, there were a number of Americans who went and fought for Nazi Germany. There was no hesitation about killing them whenever and wherever they were found. This is no different. Most people understand this and the stupid idea that this means the US will send drones over Europe to kill Americans is absurd and far fetched. Such concerns are about as rational as the ones on the right about the gumint is goin to call in the black helicopters.
Right On! Once they show up any place supporting those hairy-faced, sandal-wearing, bomb-making, camel-riding, goat-loving, raggedy-ass bastards, they have given up ALL rights as a US Citizen.
This attitude will continue until some future (?) President decides to "bring 'em home" do deal with our own problems.
Apropos side note: Our civic league recently scheduled a rally to protest apathy, but nobody showed up.
The latter's subsequent two "explanations" (read: "convolutions") in support of that banal title serve only to apologize for the former's failure to focus any of the article any better. Notice that rather than attempt to open up that mulish "reasoning," Rich changed the subject to the GOP's self-immolation . The interviewee loved making that switch.
"Today's Senate confirmation hearings for John Brennan as CIA director must be tough." Has anyone anywhere reported how that "tough" might justify such a bizarre claim? If so, where? Rich let this one go by also. Why is he so easy on the chief apologists for the status-quo-cons ervative banality cult?
This article's kind of writing and the interviewee's kind of talking reveals an obscenely inept rhetorical pattern: sound as if you have something helpful or somehow relevant to say/write while saying/writing nothing either helpful or relevant regarding anything that might matter.
What a disappointment. Frank, it is sad to see you go so dull so quickly.
Hell they've been ignoring or quietly going along with wars of aggression since the Spanish-America n affair, invasions of other nations, US armed and sponsored coups and assassinations or attempted same.
And of course the inevitable blowback will soon be coming to a target near you.
What's all this about the various shades of blue in the Rethugs anyway? They are bickering so hard they seem to be losing sight of the Totalitarian-Ri ght state they have been pursuing by all means necessary for decades. But all extremist stances and parties end up choking on their own bile eventually.
Pity that Obama is also lookin' the other way and turning cheek on those who voted for him, by escalating the Drone thing overwhelming opposed by his supporters, and targeted assassinations at home and abroad.
As they overwhelmingly voted for it.
i.e. approved it.
Lesser of two evils voting for decades is what got America into the pathetic shape it's in now.
You had a choice. Between voting for good, or voting for evil.
If you voted for romney or for obama you chose evil, with eyes wide open.
You won. You got what you voted for.
You won not having to spend 4 years pretending all over again to be opposed to imperial wars, murder of innocent kids around the world with hellfire missiles, global US Govt. state sponsored terrorism, huge handouts being shoveled out the Treasuries door for insurance CEO's and wall street, corporate ownership of a puppet in the oval office, torture of American prisoners in American prisons, etc., etc., and all the other bullsh*t obama has been getting away with so effortlessly that neither Romney nor any other republican would ever have a hope in hell of putting over on people without every democrat screaming for impeachment for 4 years, while the country continues it's ever more rapid slide over the edge.
And he won't have to listen to protests from his supporters while he forges a grand bargain to give Wall Street control of Social Security so they can get rich bankrupting it with fees till it's time for them to organize another "crash' so Obama can bail them out again. With guess whose money...
More people now have more hope for more real change they can believe in than ever before.
Not where I live -the ones who are actually paying attention and keeping current by utilizing the alternative US and foreign press.
My guess is that they of little attention-span don't want to address it.
But I do agree that if Twit had won (shudder the thought) we'd have been getting armed up to attack Iran right now, if not into it already.
All I'm saying is that Ob' is looking the other way but those who voted for him are not but for a few who don't care to see the truth.
DO THEY REALLY THINK THEY CAN VAMBOOZLE THE HISPANIC'S TO THINK HE'S ON THEIR SIDE, IF HE
DOES THEN THEY ARE A PRETTY STUPID RACE
Cubans in Florida tend to be right wing.
CFR? Isn't that Rockefeller's bunch?
Anything threatening to disrupt and require questioning of their worldview will be resisted strenuously.
For the moment, most merely note that the assassinations are taking place "somewhere else, to someone else", and tell themselves that it will always remain that way.
Drone technology has been in the development stage for more than 40 years. First used for survelance to replace the Blackbird and now armed and used for killing. We've entered a new method of waging war. Now we've entered into a discussion about the rules of engagement.
If American's are yawning then perhaps we've decided to accept the most efficient way to track and kill our enemy's and our traitors?
Drone and robot technology is being developed and used for law enforcement. What rules of egagement will come of that?
http://blog.independent.org/2013/02/04/the-relentless-march-of-the-u-s-police-state/
http://lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts388.html
http://blog.independent.org/2013/02/07/now-we-know-war-is-murder/
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/british-courts-decide-us-drones-do-murder
Concerning Geithner's acceptance of a position at the Council on Foreign Relations, see these background articles:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/burris/burris17.1.html
http://lewrockwell.com/burris/burris21.1.html
While the Constitution's guarantees of our rights to due process are not a real guarantee, to toss those rights out the window altogether, is a chilling development - especially when done by a Law Professor.
Be scared or be quiet. Very quiet.
From what I read, the assassination targets are laboriously assessed and anything but arbitrary. Should they give us pause? Absolutely. Should there be a clear-cut legal rationale, iron-clad procedures and transparent policy subject to congressional oversight? Absolutely. But terrorism is a different kind of war and I believe the president is doing what is necessary to defeat our enemies with a dramatically reduced loss of innocent civilian life.
Even the highest estimates of civilian deaths and injuries via the use of drones is a tiny fraction of the death and injury that result from armies invading countries where the terrorists operate.
Where did you read it? In a court document where accusers are sworn and the accused is allowed to question them?
I don't think so.
From what I read, the assassination targets are laboriously assessed and anything but arbitrary."
The Arbitrary targeting, like the installation of a drunken cowboy Bush in the W.House, is a tactic used to instill mortal fear in all. The accompanying unpredictabilit y and defiance of international rules of war-making protect the culprits even from their own. Yes, even the collateral innocent deaths are carefully thought out. Drones do not necessarily commit suicide after their commands have been carried out.
False choice.
Drones are not "defense". You are promoting drones as some "acceptable" way of murdering people that you hope people with conscience won't complain about.
If you were serious about looking for a solution to the real problem, you would start by looking in the mirror.
The real choice is between attacking people around the world and creating hatred for American freedom to kill them, or not attacking them.
The WOT is a sham. A childrens horror story to create support imperial wars & resource grabs by the US.
To have a never ending war on terror requires that they do everything possible to create as many "terrorists" who hate Americans for their freedom to kill them as they possibly can to be "at war" against.
What better qualification could there be than someone whose mother or father or child has just been blown into bloody gobs of flesh in front of their eyes?
...
"3000 major operations, and 10,000 minor operations... bloody and gory beyond comprehension.. . we have organized death squads in countries around the world... we count at least - minimum figure - six million people who've been killed [by CIA ops] in this long 40 year war that we've waged against the people of the third world"
--Former CIA Stn Chief John Stockwell: youtube.com/wat ch?v=m3ioJGMCr- Y
...
The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced.
I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy.
The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn't respond.
In those difficult moments many hard-to-describ e ideas bubbled in my soul, but in the end they produced an intense feeling of rejection of tyranny, and gave birth to a strong resolve to punish the oppressors.
And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children.
-- www.marktaw.com/blog/FulltranscriptofbinLadins.html
The alternative to using drones is to stop giving people the need to defend themselves against US imperialism.
If he is not stupid...and smart enough to put his greed on hold(for a job well done for the 1% and their toadies - the Repugs)...then he is morally bankrupt...
Remember - intelligence and moral, or ethical, behavior can be mutually exclusive.
Intelligence without morals or ethics may be cleverness, but is not a very intelligent way to proceed through life.
But this isn't going to go away.
"Government being instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security, of the whole community, and not for the private interest or emolument of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, whenever the ends of government are perverted, and public liberty manifestly endangered, and all other means of redress are ineffectual, the people may, and of right ought to reform the old, or establish a new government. The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind."
- New Hampshire Constitution, 1784
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