Taibbi writes: "I think both candidates lost. I think they both sucked. Romney told a series of outright lies - the bit about the pre-existing conditions was incredible - while Barack Obama seemed unaccountably disinterested in the intellectual challenge of the exercise, repeatedly leaving the gross absurdities hurled his way by Romney unchallenged."
President Obama (r.) greets Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney during the first presidential debate at the University of Denver on Wednesday. (photo: David Goldman/AP)
Mitt Romney Wins All-Important BS Contest
06 October 12
didn't watch the debate - I just couldn't. I read it in transcript form afterwards. I know it is widely believed that Mitt Romney won, but I don't agree. I think both candidates lost. I think they both sucked. Romney told a series of outright lies - the bit about the pre-existing conditions was incredible - while Barack Obama seemed unaccountably disinterested in the intellectual challenge of the exercise, repeatedly leaving the gross absurdities hurled his way by Romney unchallenged.
Romney's performance was better than Obama's, but only if you throw out criteria like "wasn't 100% full of shit from the opening bell" and "made an actual attempt to explain who he is and what his plans are." Unfortunately, that is good enough for our news media, which drools over the gamesmanship aspects of these debates, because it loves candidates who sink their teeth into the horse-race nonsense that they think validates their professional lives.
For instance: in my local paper, the Star-Ledger in New Jersey, I read an analysis entitled, "Romney's debate performance was presidential game changer, analysts say."
The unnamed authors of this analysis delivered a blizzard of sports metaphors about Romney's performance. "It's a new race for the White House," they said, after Romney "changed the game with an aggressive, confident performance" - needed, because "Obama's forces had hinted earlier that all they needed from the debate was one good punch to knock Romney out," after the challenger "spent the summer and early fall stumbling."
On the internet, they complemented this keen analysis with a cartoon picture of the two candidates as superheroes punching each other, complete with "Pow!" and "Bam!" Batman-style effects.
Why was Romney so effective, according to the Star-Ledger? Because "the Romney viewers saw during the nationally televised debate from Denver was the one his friends have long known: a conversational, smart, decent-on-his-feet guy, eager to defend his plans to cut taxes and change government health insurance for future generations."
Obama, meanwhile, came off as "wonky and lacking punch," because he was "so intent on answering questions."
The piece literally had nothing to say about the substance or accuracy of the two arguments. Like, not one thing. It did, however, speculate that Obama might be in trouble if his performance ended up getting parodied on the Daily Show, because he might end up with a reputation for being "too academic, too cold and uneasy with being challenged."
What the hell does any of this have to do with being president? It's one thing for reporters to talk shop behind the scenes about which candidate they think is doing a better job of slinging bull. But to legitimize it as real is just nuts.
Analysts like this were, however, right in a way. Romney did come across as the more confident and aggressive candidate, and Obama did come across as "wonky" and "lacking punch." Just visually and dramatically, Romney met the spectacle on its terms better than Obama did, much the way John F. Kennedy did in his celebrated debate with Richard Nixon. In that legendary meeting, radio viewers thought Nixon won, but TV viewers, blown away by Kennedy's smile and tan, thought was a landslide for the Democrat.
Journalists who cite that Nixon-Kennedy debate always forget that the lesson of that night is that the new broadcast media technology made superficiality and nonsense more important - that thanks to the press, it was now possible to get someone elected to the most powerful office on earth because he had a superior tan. Reporters love this story because it reminds everyone that the medium they work in has the power to overcome substance and decide elections all by itself. What's amazing is that they don't have the good sense to be ashamed of this.
I read the transcript of the debate and all I got from Romney was either outright factual lies, or total rhetorical dishonesty. He even tried out a version of the for-years-debunked death panel business:
In order to bring the cost of health care down, we don't need to have a - an - a board of 15 people telling us what kinds of treatments we should have.
Really? Hey, Mitt - what do you think health insurance is? It is, by definition, a bunch of people deciding what kinds of treatments we should have.
Of course, Romney's point is that there's allegedly going to be a bloodless government board somewhere deciding upon treatment options, as opposed to some bloodless corporate board making those decisions, but even that's not true at all. Romney was talking about the Independent Payment Advisory Board, which exists solely to make cuts in Medicare if its costs rise beyond a certain level and congress doesn't do anything about them.
That board is specifically barred by law from making the kinds of care decisions Romney is talking about. Obama did at least point this out, but weakly, and that's not even the point. I mean, practically in the same breath of his "unelected board" attack, Romney criticized Obama's plan because it cut Medicare. So he's clearly not against government bureaucrats making decisions about treatment, because what the hell does Romney think Medicare does? He should try getting an eye job and billing Medicare for it. The whole thing was a non-sequitur, insincere and substantively meaningless - but if you had no clue what you were watching, it looked like Romney was confidently attacking and Obama was backtracking.
Romney's entire debate performance was like this. He said absolutely nothing, but got lots of credit for style points. Here's Romney's answer on what budget cuts he would make, addressing perhaps-soon-to-be-ex-PBS employee, Jim Lehrer:
I'm sorry, Jim. I'm going to stop the subsidy to PBS. I'm going to stop other things. I like PBS. I love Big Bird. I actually like you too. But I'm not going to - I'm not going to keep on spending money on things to borrow money from China to pay for it. That's number one.
Number two, I'll take programs that are currently good programs but I think could be run more efficiently at the state level and send them to state.
Number three, I'll make government more efficient, and to cut back the number of employees, combine some agencies and departments. My cutbacks will be done through attrition, by the way.
So the answer to the question, "What will you do to rein in the biggest budget deficit in history?" comes down to, "I'll cut PBS, which is about one millionth of the federal budget, and some other stuff."
For God's sake - "I'll take programs that could be run more efficiently at state and send them to state"? Is that a joke? That's worse than a Bill Belichick answer: "What's our plan against the Broncos? We're going to watch the film and do what's best for our football team."
Reporters should have instantly pelted Romney with bags of dogshit for insulting the American people with this ridiculous non-answer, but he was instead praised for the canny "strategy" hidden in the response. Despite the fact that Romney is running as a budget hawk and yet has refused to name any actual programs (except Obamacare and PBS) he will cut, reporters gave him credit in the debate for being willing to be the bearer of bad budgetary news, because he essentially advance-fired Jim Lehrer on TV. Many also complimented the "humor" of the line about Big Bird.
Typically, Obama is the recipient of the breathless media plaudits for meaningless imageering and iconography, but Romney scooped it all up this time. Ugh. At least there are only two more!
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The one party two-faced system we have would come to an end.
Great analogy ! I thought Mitt must have just downed his first cup of coffee !
Aside from all the lies on both sides, I have to take Matt to task for a second.
Really, Matt .."radio viewers"? I know you weren't around at the time you discuss, but your fact checkers used to be better than Mitt's !
People who used radios back in the day were "listeners" rather than "viewers" most of the time. Trust me, I was there.
Just sayin'
WoW ! Bit of a monster stretch there.
Enough to make a spin doctor proud.
BTW, I know nothing about soulardave's personal case, but have you ever noticed how many people who *aggressively* "don't have TVs" *DO* have computers upon which they can view televised content by the hours?
Just sayin'
Bye bye Romneyhood.
It was very telling that he said his Social Security plan and Romney's were about thesame ... he will not do what is necessary to fix social security for good ... that is raise the ceiling on contributions.
I'd wager he is going to maintain the Bush tax cuts again if he can get himself re-elected through some kind of sad BS story like last time.
Maybe what had Obama so down was his realization that he has stabbed in the back the very people he has to claim to be fighting for every day ... and he is not as good at fooling himself as Romney and was having guilt pangs.
This is why it is soooo important to vote the right people into Congress, and that's really where our efforts should be the strongest. It could take another 4 years to eject the radical t-party reps from the House. We have neither the time nor the patience to wait for them to go. I suggest that we start recall procedures to get rid of them A.S.A.P.
1.I am a CEO. Obama is only an ordinary person, who cannot comprehend how superior I am.
2.I have a terrific agenda for what I will do in office. I won't actually define it for you little people. So don't prod me for details.
3.Just ask anyone on Fox News about what Obama is doing wrong.
4.I just love William F. Buckley. I adore his sophisticated disdain for bleeding heart liberals. Practice the look of disdain. Wear it like a mask.
5.If Obama brings up anything I have said, just Etch-a-sketch.
6.Don't let anyone, especially that television whatshisname, try to tell me what to do.
7.Spend a lot of time in the makeup room. Don't get suckered with another cheap tan job.
8.Remember, no matter what I do or say, my media people will declare victory! That's what they are paid to do.
I wonder what he is saying this cycle?
"WHOA! Stop right there. Gov. Romney, I know you and the people whom you represent don't like me. But then you like so few Black Americans. But remember, I am STILL the President of the United States and I ask that you treat me with respect and let me finish speaking."
Want to make a bet that Obama will "win" the next debate?
I was so stunned by Obama's docility and lack of fight at this moment that I was yelling at the TV. Then, when the Mormon prince seized control of my television set and also of the moderator who sat there like plankton, when (mendacious) shit for brains babbled about killing kiddie icon, Big Bird, all I could think of was that this was had to be an outer body episode of Twilight Zone. What Romney won was the motor-mouth award for spewing the most propaganda in the least amount of time because the leader of the free world was obviously playing with his Blackberry or otherwise engaged.
The makeup artists for both men need to be fired - no life on those grey skins.
Or, perhaps the lighting manager switched colors on them?
This non-comment, and the few before it sound
exactly like the ones the ridiculous pundits were making about Mitt winning on "style points." Who cares about the lighting colors on their faces? Did you miss the whole point of Matt's piece?
Master Obama, on the other hand, must have a beautiful belly button: He stared at it on national TV last Wednesday for 90 minutes. And left each lie unchallenged. Occasionally uttering "uh, uh" as if passing gas. If that was Presidential, we are in one hell of a mess.
Makes one think that someone inside provided information to the terrorists, but unconfirmed to date.
Have you ever heard of the Civil Rights Movment? Feel sorry for you!!!!!!!!!!!
Obama shifted around, and he looked uneasy, and, finally he declared that the "free enterprise system" makes America great. That made the conservatives smile. Of course, the big corporations don't really want free enterprise - what they want is government protection, subsidies, and rescue money - but that's a secret.
Romney did his usual flip-flop routine. He said that he loves government regulation and he loves Medicare. So he's moving towards the political middle and, already, he has betrayed his supporters in the Tea Party,
So the liberals, too, can celebrate.
Everybody gets to be a winner! Gosh, that's really nice.... I've thought about the recent debate. At first, I thought that it was a gigantic bore and rather pointless. Maybe I was right.
However, the debate was good for a few laughs. Keep smiling, America.
Hopefully voters will look beyond the facade of the wind-up Ken doll and give Obama another four years to finish the job he has executed so ably with dignity and perseverance in spite of a viscous and mean-spirited congress.
VERY Good ispeakup, you can speak for me, ANY day!
By the way, Paula Kerger, the head of PBS says pointed out that PBS raises six times as much money as it gets via federal funding.it is privately funded, and technically, it's the stations that get some government assistance: "We receive about 15 percent of our funding from the federal government. Thats an aggregate number. The funding actually goes to our stations, it doesn't come to PBS. Some of our stations get a much smaller percentage, seven or eight percent. Others, particularly in rural parts of the country, it can be as high as 40 and 50 percent.
Obama may have been affected by the 5,000 feet altitude. Romney had been in Denver for several days--long enough to become acclimated. Obama flew in from sea-level for the debate which might explain his lethargy.
But until or unless that time comes, nothing will even have a snowball's chance in hell of changing our rottenly corrupt politics and our corporate controlled federal election system.
Romney won on style and Obama on
substance, and in America style will
always win.
How sad for the rest of the world.
I go back to a very wise man of who said in the mid 1960s: "Politics is the entertainment division of the military industrial complex." Thank you Frank Zappa for explaining what otherwise cannot be explained.
My blood has finally had time to return to normal from its near boiling point. I now fully understand the usefulness of the expression, "You make my blood boil."
I've written some revised dialogue for the debate; what I would have liked to hear from President Obama. I present it to everyone, and look forward to your comments.
The scene opens about 1/3 into the debate. It's President Obama's turn to start answering the question. He turns to Romney and says:
..."Are you going to continue to interrupt me while I'm speaking? I address you as Governor even though you are no longer a governor. I AM your President; I AM your Commander-in-Ch ief. Show me some respect, and respect the ground rules of this debate. For the remainder of this debate, please DO NOT interrupt me while I am speaking.
Now Mr. Lehrer, to answer your question..."
President Obama turns away from Mr. Romney, and addresses Mr. Lehrer directly, in a calm, clear voice.
The debate continues with a different tone in force.
Romney, the patrician whose religion allows light-skinned males to go unchallenged, would have been undone by actually having to go toe-to-toe in a pit fight where the challengers have to take blows one at a time.
What was Obama thinking of? Not wanting to look like an angry Black man doesn't explain tolerating intentional humiliation. I want to see agressive verbal return fire to see what these guys have going for themselves outside of the comfort zone of memorized, canned remarks prepared by others.
My one word reaction to the "Debate" is "Rude" and it applies exclusively to Willard.
As a woman, I see the debate differently than white male pundits. For me, domination and bullying are never signs of leadership. They're character traits of authoritarians who have no respect or consideration for others. Authoritarians USE people.
How can Romney WIN a debate by YET AGAIN erasing & redrawing his etch-a-sketch to show completely different positions and descriptions of what he'll do. Night and day different from what he promoted for a year??? He can't. He's lying. Do we really want to declare that he honestly won the debate for the office of President of the United States of America? Have we really sunk that low???
What amazes me is that Romney doesn't seem to understand that his shape shifting has been duly noted. Message received loud and clear. Repeatedly. He apparently has such low regard for the intellect of average Americans that he thinks they are not capable of tracking his position swerves. I find him insulting. Where I am from, we have a saying that captures the essence of people like Romney. They are "like piss on a plate," rolling around all over the place.
Romney is a slick, dangerous, greedy, psychopath corporate raider, who has shown for decades he will say or do anything to grab the Presidency. He learned well from his father, George Romney. Despite Mitt's father's reputation as a liberal Republican and a “champion” of civil rights, he used the power of the Mormon Church to publicly denounce supporters of the Equal Rights Amendment as “moral perverts,” labeling the movement a homosexual conspiracy to destroy the American family.
Most political analysts believe that had the LDS Church not taken such an aggressive position against the ERA, it would have been easily ratified by the required thirty-eight states, and would now be part of the U.S. Constitution.” http://www.alternet.org/blowin.... Romney's father was a bigot.
Think about that for a moment. Women would have had equal rights as a part of the constitution, if it weren't for Mitt Romney's father! Today we struggle to hold onto rights we fought for in part, because of George Romney's actions and extreme right republicans.
I don't want the son of George Romney to practice his own version of dirty tricks in 2012 and take the Presidency.
We need to respect ourselves and hold political candidates to a much higher standard. Most Republican politicians only represent straight white males. They're failing most of their constituencies! They rarely, if ever, legislate on behalf of women, people of color, gays, Latinos, etc. They pass legislation that only benefits corporations, the rich and straight, white males. It's past time for them to go.
We've had enough of hate, discrimination, racism, misogyny and homophobia. We've had enough of the view that only the wealthiest deserve rights or benefits, at the expense of everyone else. Let's continue moving forward by standing up for ourselves and for Obama, against a Romney Presidency.
Let’s move forward to reelecting a humanitarian President and voting out the racist, misogynist, homophobic obstructionists from the bottom up--anyone who is holding back the country because a black man is reelected President.
What's with these wingnut, chinless, homophobes, the Roves and the Larry Craigs, who bat for both teams? Hypocrisy is not an endearing quality. From the standpoint of truth telling, the GOP elite seem to be without scruples, morality or even the ability to summon either. Wonder what Bible they read that sanctions violating most of the 10 Commandments? I would rather be a pagan that an adherent to the gospel of evil.
What they got was a president who took the entire defense department bureaucracy of a previously discredited administration into his administration inclusive of the Generals, Secretary of Defense and all the rest ( this has never happened before); then gave us more phony war. While president Obama was receiving the “Nobel Peace prize” he simultaneously and successfully defended the architect of torture in a San Francisco federal court. In addition, he sidetracked attempts of the ACLU to remove the illegal overseas prisons and never gave even a feeble attempt to close the infamous Guantanamo prison. He has never tried to return our revered habeas corpus or remove the immoral, illegal, Patriot Act. As this is written he has placed ill advised military intimidation and economic sanctions over innocent Iranian people and continues to fund the illegal Zionist settlers three generations removed from WWII, (many from New York) in the Middle East. Recently Obama signed a law (National Defense Authorization Act) making the “Patriot Act” permanent and the USA is now officially a military/police state with the habeas corpus long gone.
Case in point:
Mitt Romney provided an easy decision point in the first Presidential debate when he called for a gigantic increase of the military budget. His promise is nothing short of insane. No, this is not too strong a word: As with his monstrous tax cuts this boondoggle is unfunded. Most importantly, it's not needed: The US military is already bigger than the next 10 countries' combined. This is crazy.
The mere fact that such an absurd plan was stated by Romney (and approved for release by his team) completely discredits him as a credible leader.
Especially since it highlights that Romney only ever alludes to "plans" while never allowing us to see any details that would enable us to assess its viability.
Now, this is actually NOT crazy but the only way a flimflam politician can sell empty for full. It's disgusting.
So many men,even the good ones,think that chest bumping is what matters. NOT!
AND,don't forget we woman know the value of Big Bird,Sesame Street and PBS/NPR. This is not over. 81% of children watch these shows. They have been proven to enhance children's learning. Watch how mother's, grandmother's and great-grandmoth ers like me show up at Romney's campaign to protest what he plans to do.
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