Haidt writes: "Why on Earth would a working-class person ever vote for a conservative candidate? This question has obsessed the American left since Ronald Reagan..."
Newt Gingrich supporters listen to his stump speech at a campaign event in South Carolina. (photo: Christopher Anderson/Magnum Photos/NY Magazine)
Why Do Working-Class People Vote Conservative?
07 June 12
hy on Earth would a working-class person ever vote for a conservative candidate? This question has obsessed the American left since Ronald Reagan first captured the votes of so many union members, farmers, urban Catholics and other relatively powerless people – the so-called "Reagan Democrats". Isn't the Republican party the party of big business? Don't the Democrats stand up for the little guy, and try to redistribute the wealth downwards?
Many commentators on the left have embraced some version of the duping hypothesis: the Republican party dupes people into voting against their economic interests by triggering outrage on cultural issues. "Vote for us and we'll protect the American flag!" say the Republicans. "We'll make English the official language of the United States! And most importantly, we'll prevent gay people from threatening your marriage when they … marry! Along the way we'll cut taxes on the rich, cut benefits for the poor, and allow industries to dump their waste into your drinking water, but never mind that. Only we can protect you from gay, Spanish-speaking flag-burners!"
One of the most robust findings in socialpsychology is that people find ways to believe whatever they want to believe. And the left really want to believe the duping hypothesis. It absolves them from blame and protects them from the need to look in the mirror or figure out what they stand for in the 21st century.
Here's a more painful but ultimately constructive diagnosis, from the point of view of moral psychology: politics at the national level is more like religion than it is like shopping. It's more about a moral vision that unifies a nation and calls it to greatness than it is about self-interest or specific policies. In most countries, the right tends to see that more clearly than the left. In America the Republicans did the hard work of drafting their moral vision in the 1970s, and Ronald Reagan was their eloquent spokesman. Patriotism, social order, strong families, personal responsibility (not government safety nets) and free enterprise. Those are values, not government programs.
The Democrats, in contrast, have tried to win voters' hearts by promising to protect or expand programmes for elderly people, young people, students, poor people and the middle class. Vote for us and we'll use government to take care of everyone! But most Americans don't want to live in a nation based primarily on caring. That's what families are for.
One reason the left has such difficulty forging a lasting connection with voters is that the right has a built-in advantage – conservatives have a broader moral palate than the liberals (as we call leftists in the US). Think about it this way: our tongues have taste buds that are responsive to five classes of chemicals, which we perceive as sweet, sour, salty, bitter, and savoury. Sweetness is generally the most appealing of the five tastes, but when it comes to a serious meal, most people want more than that.
In the same way, you can think of the moral mind as being like a tongue that is sensitive to a variety of moral flavors. In my research with colleagues atYourMorals.org, we have identified six moral concerns as the best candidates for being the innate "taste buds" of the moral sense: care/harm, fairness/cheating, liberty/oppression, loyalty/betrayal, authority/subversion, and sanctity/degradation. Across many kinds of surveys, in the UK as well as in the USA, we find that people who self-identify as being on the left score higher on questions about care/harm. For example, how much would someone have to pay you to kick a dog in the head? Nobody wants to do this, but liberals say they would require more money than conservatives to cause harm to an innocent creature.
But on matters relating to group loyalty, respect for authority and sanctity (treating things as sacred and untouchable, not only in the context of religion), it sometimes seems that liberals lack the moral taste buds, or at least, their moral "cuisine" makes less use of them. For example, according to our data, if you want to hire someone to criticize your nation on a radio show in another nation (loyalty), give the finger to his boss (authority), or sign a piece of paper stating one's willingness to sell his soul (sanctity), you can save a lot of money by posting a sign: "Conservatives need not apply."
In America, it is these three moral foundations that underlie most of the "cultural" issues that, according to duping theorists, are used to distract voters from their self-interest. But are voters really voting against their self-interest when they vote for candidates who share their values? Loyalty, respect for authority and some degree of sanctification create a more binding social order that places some limits on individualism and egoism. As marriage rates plummet, and globalization and rising diversity erodes the sense of common heritage within each nation, a lot of voters in many western nations find themselves hungering for conservative moral cuisine.
Despite being in the wake of a financial crisis that – if the duping theorists were correct – should have buried the cultural issues and pulled most voters to the left, we are finding in America and many European nations a stronger shift to the right. When people fear the collapse of their society, they want order and national greatness, not a more nurturing government.
Even on the two moral taste buds that both sides claim – fairness and liberty – the right can often outcook the left. The left typically thinks of equality as being central to fairness, and leftists are extremely sensitive about gross inequalities of outcome – particularly when they correspond along racial or ethnic lines. But the broader meaning of fairness is really proportionality – are people getting rewarded in proportion to the work they put into a common project? Equality of outcomes is only seen as fair by most people in the special case in which everyone has made equal contributions. The conservative media (such as the Daily Mail, or Fox News in the US) is much more sensitive to the presence of slackers and benefit cheats. They are very effective at stirring up outrage at the government for condoning cheating.
Similarly for liberty. Americans and Britons all love liberty, yet when liberty and care conflict, the left is more likely to choose care. This is the crux of the US's monumental battle over Obama's healthcare plan. Can the federal government compel some people to buy a product (health insurance) in order to make a plan work that extends care to 30 million other people? The derogatory term "nanny state" is rarely used against the right (pastygate being perhaps an exception). Conservatives are more cautious about infringing on individual liberties (eg of gun owners in the US and small businessmen) in order to protect vulnerable populations (such as children, animals and immigrants).
In sum, the left has a tendency to place caring for the weak, sick and vulnerable above all other moral concerns. It is admirable and necessary that some political party stands up for victims of injustice, racism or bad luck. But in focusing so much on the needy, the left often fails to address – and sometimes violates – other moral needs, hopes and concerns. When working-class people vote conservative, as most do in the US, they are not voting against their self-interest; they are voting for their moral interest. They are voting for the party that serves to them a more satisfying moral cuisine. The left in the UK and USA should think hard about their recipe for success in the 21st century.
Jonathan Haidt is a professor of psychology at New York University's Stern School of Business. He is the author of The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion. To take the survey described in this essay, visit www.yourmorals.org/express_welcome_sacredness.php
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But why is it not a moral good to question authority? Is it really immoral to ponder how much economic inequality derives from the deservedness of the rich, and how much from cheating? Would Haidt allow that it is a moral concern whether laissez faire serves liberty or threatens it? What if one doesn't find sanctity in a young earth church, but in Darwin's cathedral?
Understatement of the week: Haidt is not a moral philosopher. He's a marketing guy who has taken up a vocabulary for discussing how the electorate might be manipulated.
It may be ethically good to question authority if that authority is objectively bad. But I don't think that is the point of this article - its about questioning authority figures within an established (supposedly fair) system. Moral conservatives are loathe to go against authority figures even if not doing so is to their detriment.
Yes! And that's how we end up with horrors such as the Holocaust---peo ple afraid/lazy/too ignorant to question authority.
Davidr makes Haidt's point. Liberals are swayed by intellectual argument but the conservatives are not. The liberals need to repackage their arguments into a "more satisfying moral cuisine" as Haidt puts it. "Freedom to marry who we want" or "Fair shot at earning a decent wage", for example, might sell a lot better than the standard liberal fare.
It's kind of based on selfishness, which of course, the GOP has masterfully manipulated language to make it "OK" to be selfish and even greedy! The right has sanctioned everything most of us would find morally objectionable by re-packaging it and selling it as something else - PRIVATE ENTERPRISE AND FREEDOM.
That's why you'll find a KY family voting Republican and yet be totally dumbfounded when they take away their social security disability..... .
Identity philosophers, may say that ‘truth’ is meaningful and that it means correspondence to the facts. They may even acknowledge the existence of foolproof criteria by which to determine whether or not a statement is true. But they believe, and this is what makes them identity philosophers, that they owe their primary allegiance to some group to which they belong. The thrust of their attack against truth is not that we cannot know what is true. It is that truth is but one "value" amongst many, and not the one that counts most for building a just society. They believe that when it comes to a choice between truth and solidarity, it is solidarity that counts — so that we are not merely justified in misrepresenting the truth, but that it may actually be our duty to do so if the solidarity of our community hangs in the balance.
But no one, I hope, would accuse identity philosophers of tolerating or respecting the views of others.
For example; when Haidt offers this,"yet when liberty and care conflict, the left is more likely to choose care", he ignores this; when Liberty and Tribalism conflict, the right will choose Tribalism. And they do it all the time. It's a question of framing Professor Haidt.
Its more important to be comfortable than to be moral. Its more important to be loyal (to the tribe) than to be moral. Its more important to be successful than to be moral. All ironically un-Christian positions. Conservatives prefer simplistic, fanciful explanations to complex questions (creationism) to scientific inquiry (evolution).
They don't want to be confused with facts. This is what the right has successfully exploited.
Truth be told, conservative have no problem with slavery (economically highly advantageous) as long as they are the masters. Racism helps to justify this.
On the left we tend to find people who are curious about the world around them, who are stimulated by the new and different, who will take risks rather than exploiting a sure thing.
Lefties tend to prefer cooperation to competition, compassion to punishment and incarceration, looking ahead for better solution rather than back to the same old mistakes.
Its an uphill battle to win over the fearful and socially un-evolved among us. They want what they have. Pandering to the moral low ground has been a successful strategy for conservatives.
In case anyone hasn't cleared up previous grammar misinformation, allow me to give my input as an English teacerh of 30 years: Democratic is an ADJECTIVE, Democrat is a NOUN. A Democrat is a person who chooses to vote for individuals in the Democratic Party. There is no verb, unless you're comfortable with, "We will Democratic those uninformed people!"
I've lived in KY for the past 21 years, and I can tell you that Haidt is right on the money. Most of the poor vote Republican. And they do it for what they perceive as "moral" reasons.
People cling to their religion here. (KY is the only state to have a "Creation Museum" - I kid you not). What matters to these people most IS their perception of morality - and whichever political party sticks up for that is the one that gets their vote.
Democrats just don't get it. I've been a Democrat for over 40 years & I say that as sure as I need air to breathe.
Republicans LONG AGO found the vocabulary with which to manipulate the electorate! And they are masters at it. Democrats can't seem to get that and can't seem to wrap their heads around the concept. Which is why we're on the way to becoming a one-party country, unfortunately.
the rich benefit and the poor get a lot of talk of morals. Gee where do I sign up?(sarcasm) I think only a fool would vote for fake morals while getting their livelihoods stolen out from underneath them and shipped to other countries. But keep voting for the right wing nut jobs then blame the dems when you have nothing, its so predictable.
The opposite - pointing out that precious few of the 1% "earned" anything, ever, is seriously divisive and dangerous socially. Higher taxes are potentially the 1%'s biggest friend. Warren Buffet is a canny old bird and called it pretty clearly. Neither he nor any of the other ultrawealthy can do enough useful things with that money to counter the seriously bad effects it has economically (and socially if we don't watch out). Lurking out there on the books but not moving, not paying wages, buying materials, lubricating the creation of new real wealth, and increasing inflation by accumulating interest, it threatens the economic stability of the planet. Taxing it would put it back to work. Historically similar social conditions ultimately lead to the French revolution, once the peasantry realized they had little hope of their "betters" doing anything useful.
I have morals, I find the GOP is disingenuous and they dont really care about morals, its just a cheap way for them to get votes. They are so immoral its ridiculous. I can tell you Im honest while stealing your wallet. Their talk means absolutely nothing, because they do the opposite of everything they say the stand for.
$250,000 a year is the NET number...do you have any idea what the gross volume is for a small business person to NET that kind of income? I bet not...hint...a fair profit at the end of the day is in the 8-12% (net taxable income) area...do that math to make that 250k...and don't forget to account for that discretionary expenditure all small businesses enjoy called 'advertising and promotion'...
But they're being told by "authority figures" whom they trust (because they believe we should ALL trust those in authority. They got their position because they EARNED it so they must KNOW more than the rest of us....) that Dems want to raise THEIR taxes. That if the wealthy people have their taxes raised, they'll be even LESS jobs - and they might lose theirs!
It's fear-mongering tactics that the GOP has taken from fascism, particularly Hitler's regime. Remember that G.W. Bush's grandfather, Prescott Bush, actually helped finance Hitler - until the U.S. govt. put a stop to it. Prescott Bush admired Hitler - so, I think those fascist principles have been ingrained in the Bush family and now passed on down to us. With the help of Dick Cheney and his ilk, who believe in a "master-slave" society, with the rich being the masters and the "masses" being their slaves.
Kind of live medieval feudalism. Which of course, most working class, uneducated people know absolutely nothing about, so they are easily fooled.
I understand it takes money, but there must be something else to be done, only I can't imagine how to fight this campaign that has no relation, not to mention respect, for the truth. Obama need to sell the idea that Romney can't be trusted with our economy, yes, but how about the idea that Romney can't be trusted at all.
spenel334
Any Ideas?
spenel334
IMO, it is an aspect of education and conscious awareness and for people who lack a certain amount of empathy for others and the deeper implications of not being courageous, and then we will all suffer until they realize the foolishness of the fear based morality/values . I keep hoping for some kind of shock wave of awareness so people finally "get it", instead they're worried about all those meaningless non-issues, like gods, guns, gays, and abortion etc.
Patience, patience... you can't beat smart into stupid.
"Fair taxes for all Americans" vs. "Higher taxes for the rich".
"Liberty to marry" vs. "Same sex marriage".
"Four years of solid job growth" vs. "Weak recovery".
It can be done. Liberals just have to wake up and smell the coffee.
..and who is going to propagate this message for the democrats?. The republican right wing machine owns most of the media; TV, talk radio, major newspapers and a host of small local media outlets all over the country. Hell, they even own most of the journalists. The "liberal media" has been a hollow fraud since "saint Reagan". That they own the media has been the result of 40 years of deliberate efforts towards that end. They have succeeded but continue with consumate hypocrisy and almost "venereal" dishonesty to claim victim status vis a vis the "liberal media". These people are "deep"; too "deep" for the average working class white male/female.
I left the Republican party about the same time Elizabeth Warren did, when Gingrich issued his GoPac Memo "Language: A Key Mechanism of Control" see http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1276
He,used the Cato Institute described Leninist tactics, declared all opponents, their records, proposals and their party should be described in negative contrasting words "decay, failure (fail), collapse(ing), deeper, crisis, etc, while Republicans are in optimistic and positive contrasting words, "share, change, opportunity, legacy, challenge, control, truth, moral, courage, reform, prosperity, crusade, movement, children, family, debate, compete, active(ly), we/us/our, candid(ly), humane, pristine, provide, liberty, commitment, principle(d), etc."
Gingrich's memo didn't include the Leninist tactic of covertly sabotaging all programs associated with the opponents (even if they were originally Republican ideas), but they did start practicing the tactic that could create blow-back even worse than the use of language as a cynical weapon should provoke. Before Kevin Phillips had a change of heart, he helped develop the Southern Strategy, with older "code words" see http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Code_Words
What are the chances other Republicans will have a change of heart? Prepare a translation list for the positive comparisons of the dismissive terms Republicans use.
"Good Samaritan Care" vs. "Obamacare."
Perhaps that's a phrase the right will understand.
What a joke. You can say that about the democrats in the 60's and 70's but since then and especially now the democrats do little or nothing for the "most needy" and have sold the poor down the river by kow-towing to republicans instead of standing up and fighting for the little guy. No matter which political party poor people vote for they get screwed. At least republicans hate and blame the same people you do for your bad economic situation. Democrats just don't get that and are too stupid to figure out why the right-wing uses the term dumocrats.
It is much more likely that Conservatives have so-called their taste buds implanted by the likes of the Conservative media repetition. Over the years their mantras are drilled into their brains and if you notice any conversation with a Conservative is circular, that is, they go from one to the other all the way around and then start up again.
It make them feel personally empowered and validated, and puts them right in line if they want it to be a bully just like stand your grounds puts someone who is looking for it the right to kill someone.
He writes: "When working-class people vote conservative, as most do in the US, they are not voting against their self-interest; they are voting for their moral interest. They are voting for the party that serves to them a more satisfying moral cuisine."
I think he's dead wrong. They ARE voting against their self-interest, because Republicans will take everything away from them including their work and they will pat themselves on the backs for it. These people may be voting for what they think is "moral cuisine" but they will end up bankrupt and that moral cuisine they voted for is going to taste like the crap it really is.
Haidt is well named. He hates liberals. That's obvious. He's a shill for the Repugnants. He tries like hell to make them sound good. But I for one do not buy what he's selling.
That is exactly how his take ends up...dry, cynical gamesmanship... only winning matters...the end justifies the means is surely THE republican't motto and so goes Haidt...interes ting last name...ey?
If being in favor of potable water, breathable air eatable food, minimum wage, overtime pay safety standards for workplace, and consumer goods public education a safety net for unemployed the impoverished and elderly being against child labor makes me a radical than so be it !!!
I keep seeing this "I used to be a liberal" line as the opening statement in comments from obvious right wing ideologues.
It is usually followed by several very weak attempts to discredit any "liberal" idea (even if the idea was proposed by conservatives; Romneycare in Mass. comes to mind).
I'm sure this sort of nonsense works on conservatives, But I doubt that Haidt's message will resonate with swing voters, who tend to mistrust both major parties.
An unfortunate truth that Haidt misses (and can be verified by a look at the products on supermarket shelves and the high incidence of diabetes and heart disease in the USA) is that peoples' palates, without the benefit of a knowledge of good nutrition, will lead to an unhealthy consumption of sugar, fat and salt. Letting conservatives determine the moral high ground is like letting children do all the grocery shopping.
Yet even 'naive psychology' theorists recognize the potential for everyone to subscribe to learned systems of meaning. Psychologists should read other subjects in the social-science cannon; they just might get some insight.
Having studied psychology at an elite college - Reed College - I've noticed a slant toward studying the psychology of rich white Americans, and an aversion for studying anyone else.
Having grown up in the lower middle class, I've always recognized that there is a disgust for what the upper class believes, and this disgust fuels the poor's attitudes toward whatever the rich say.
The GOP has gone through great pains to identify themselves with the average American. GW was a master: "Jesus is the philosopher that I follow" - absolutely brilliant! The Democrats are so off message, they don't know what to say.
As someone who has straddled both worlds, I'm quite disgusted with the Democrats fear of talking to the poor. What are they afraid of?
I don't care about gay marriage or an abomination of a health care reform or balancing the budget.
Come on, Democratic Party, start standing up for us...and we'll vote for you. Lead us out of this apathy.
I hated to see Elliot Spitzer get taken down by a madam who wound up dead. So many signs...if you trust your eyes.
It's like always eating oatmeal with butter on it because that's you were brought up, or wearing white socks with sneakers because your mom and gym teacher told you that colored socks would cause infections. This, like the mistaken notion of spending, in classical economics, has nothing to do with rationality -- it's more like how lab rats have been trained to navigate a maze (and how people are manipulated by advertising and snake oil barkers) -- and just stupidity and ignorance.
It's not just conservatives; many liberals do the same thing but with a different set of conditioned responses.
Against stupidy the very gods contend in vain. __ Schiller
What are breath of fresh air!!..in this awful forum of moral and intellectual dishonesty. Bravo!!!
http://www.yesmagazine.org/issues/5000-years-of-empire/the-great-turning-from-empire-to-earth-community-1
Basically, we tell a radically different story than that told by domination culture. One that appeals to all the moral concerns held by people. It's possible to tell an inspiring story of possibility, collaboration, partnership, creativity, and caring while affirming all these so called "conservative" ethical values. Indeed ethical values like honesty, responsibility, accountability, belonging, fairness, liberty, sovereignty, and the sanctity of life are vitally important to creating a world where everybody wins.
Bravo!! well said.
Attorneys, judges and all affiliated with the system get to know each other and DEFINATELY have back channel conversations.
Colusion amongst the players is the rule...find out how deep the pockets and then use the system at 3-500 OR MORE an hour...corrupti on and dishonesty are the rule not the exception.
Which provides fertile ground for fascism.
Bravo!! another intellectually honest comment.
I couldn't agree with you more. As it is education in America has come to mean ONLY "vocational training". The fact that one is trained in a vocation such as Law or medicine or engineering etc., etc..does not one an "educated person"; Vocationally trained yes; educated? not necessarily. Alioto Scalia and Thomas should make this clear.
"Defending his battle for civil rights, Johnson cited the Southern senator who once noted that his state hadn't heard a Democratic speech in thirty years and exclaimed, 'All they ever hear at election time is n----r, n----r, n----r!'" While it gives me grief to say this, I think the white working-class Reagan Democrats can be explained by precisely that -- the Republican party has been shouting 'n----r, n----r, n----r!' at them since the passage of the civil rights act of 64, and most acutely since Ronald Reagan kicked off his 1980 presidential campaign at the Neshoba county fair in Mississippi -- giving a speech on "states' rights" (code for n----r, n----r, n----r!) in the very same place from which three civil rights organizers had been kidnapped and murdered in 1964. That (and his repeated references to "welfare queens" sent a message to every race-resentful white person in America that the people in the White House would now be on *their* side.
No, I'm not saying that every conservative voter is an out-and-out racist. I'm saying that the Republican Party has played to the lingering suspicion (against all factual rebuttal) among white working-class people that (a) black people have it better than they do, thanks to the govmint, and/or that black people are *responsible* for their hard times.
In short, dig down under the white working-class resentment, and you'll find racial uneasinessscape goating, or outright fear. And the Republicans, by playing up the supposed "foreign" nature of Obama, are still effectively shouting, "n----r, n----r, n----r!".
I wish I could have said it better. Thanks.
These are like Post WW1 Germans that facilitated the entire agenda of a psychotic little perv. In our era the little perv is Frank Luntz, a master of making people believe that their chicken shit bigotry is actually chicken salad.
We indulge in the pretense that history is not repeating itself with us playing the part of the Third Reich. We have legalized discrimination against every category of minority, have blown the threat of our "enemy" all out of proportion, and armed ourselves to fight a war against ALL of the other nations on the planet at the same time.
Obviously there is a like number of people in this nation who actually can assess their own long-term self interest, can figure out who is sodomizing them economically without the help of Rush Limbaugh, and live like Christians without benefit of either Bible or preacher.
e better pray that these real patriots stay in the game, and keep speaking the truth without the gloss or spin of being "polite" or "conciliatory". That has been tried and it is not even close to working.
http://wearerespectablenegroes.blogspot.com/2012/01/fear-of-black-president-love-of.html
@RFBeltran: Excellent analysis and critique. I would categorize the article as a right wing hatchet job. Which is not to say that the Dems. are doing a good job at taking the moral high ground. Assuming that human nature is inherently good and that people will see the light flies in the face of history.
While watching TV recently I heard promos about upcoming science-themed shows. The promo always ends with the words "Science; Question Everything."
In contrast, when I occasionally tune in to some Christian TV shows - for entertainment purposes only - what I hear is diametrically opposed to the Science programs and their search for truth. The twin watchwords of most religionists are "Faith" & "Belief"; in other words, believe unequivocally and above all, question nothing. If those who consider themselves believing Christians have been reared with this ingrained mentality is it any wonder they're such easy prey when all grown up? God wills it.
The writer of this article is is way off base claiming the neocons define the the moral direction, thereby gaining votes. I believe that the right exploits the religious, moral, and sentimentsl temperament of the hard working people in this country to gain their vote, and then does whatever the hell they wish, even when their actions are to the detriment of the people who put them in office. The right in its current incarnation is patently immoral, perhaps, amoral.
Thus, thinking about marketing and elections without analyzing how the ground itself has relentlessly drifted towards an overt corporate/imper ialist fascism strikes me as irresponsible. The mainstream "left" in the election this year will hold positions (cheering on the 'free' market while overtly doling out generous corporate welfare, shrugging shoulders at a widening chasm between the earning power of CEOs and workers, insisting on military interventions by executive order only, while watching basic infrastructure continue to decay) that no amount of marketing would have convinced Nixon's 'silent majority' was in their interests or their values.
The real reason is that the leadership of the Democratic Party has SO lost touch with the vast majority of "working class" people (of all colors). That anger has translated into most white working class folks going over to the Republican side because the "club" seems friendlier.
People of color, GLBTQ folks have no where else to go, so the party ignores us too. So we end up with a "club" that rarely sticks it's head out on behalf of "working" class people.
After years of working as an activist in the party, I'm fed up with the "deal making" and eternal compromises that have defined our Party for decades.
I don't know who is advising Obama, but it clearly is not ANYONE who cares about issues that affect my life. This is why most folks done even vote, and those who do usually see it as a coin toss.
Will SOMEONE in congress (besides Barbara Boxer or Barney Frank) PLEASE show some courage?
As progenitor of one of these evil Socialist countries. I have given up on even trying to explain these things and decided just to have fun with it. So, I strike up a conversation with someone who is adamant and quite vocal about his Conservative leanings.
I tell 'm I am from Europe.
And ask this good fellow what makes him think he is a true Conservative.
His answer: "Because I am the one holding down a real job and am expected to pay for all the stupid stuff".
And I followed up, if he meant that: The people that actually worked should be the ONLY ones making the decisions and that the people that didn't work should have to keep their mouth shut.
He wholeheartedly agreed that such would indeed be "the thing".
I continued: And have a little less of that touchy feely democracy and a little more blunt decision making like in a dictatorship. Again, he agreed that "such might be a better way to go", as far as he was concerned.
And I finally asked him: How should we call such "dictatorship of the workers" ?
Communism maybe ?
You should have seen the disbelief on his face.
So there you have it, American Conservatives are closet Communists according to their own rhetoric.
Or they just don't get it.
We are all, to some extent, prone to this kind class consciousness, tribalism, group affiliation, what have you. In contrast to Haidt's tribalistic, myopic concept of morality, true morality consists in trying to overcome these ethnocentric barriers and appealing to higher, more universal values.
Why -- I will tell you why.
Because we fiscal conservatives understand that government is not a magical genie that can grant any ones wishes, we do not believe in the church of state.
We understand that government must take by force from some before it has anything to give to others.
We understand that government has a legitimate function of protecting every ones inherent rights but it does not give government a right to force some to live for the sake of others -- that is slavery.
We understand that no man has a right to the life of another.
how well do conservative candidates stick by those premises .. poorly mostly, but not as poorly as those who think that they can and are entitled to use government to force their version of utopia on every one else.
The right wing has been organizing on the ground for over 30 years. It is time we hit the ground. We shall overcome.
A well dressed man was then sent into the crowd and did the same thing. On pretty much every occasion this time, the bill was returned to him.
The conclusion? No reward from a poorly dressed man could be gained, but the thought of a reward from the well dressed man was the reason for returning the bills.
It's easy to extrapolate, then, why the middle class believes voting against their own interests: they still believe trickle down will work. Kindfa proves evolution, doesn't it: we did come from monkeys, and the intelligence level hasn't risen that far above them.
The right wing does understand better mass psychology, but a lot of the psychology of Americans has been created by their propaganda system.
The big problem for socialism and communism has always been the general servile and slave mentality of the masses. They simply do not want to accecpt their power. People still are fascinated by Kings, Queens, billionaires, rock stars and all forms of social hierarchy. They have not yet learned to see presidents, senators, judges as public servants. They do not understand democracy.
Democracy is really a very new idea (Athenian democracy was really aristocracy), and the masses have not yet intellectually gone that far.
The neo-cons believe that monarchy is the natural form of goveernment as in by human nature people always look to a king or strong leader. Republicans know all this and play to it. Progressives appeal to people's democratic ideals and those are not as basic.
Seriously... Democrats have always been the party of the other class, the old line money and snobs that pretend their education and family ancestry makes them better than new immigrants and working people.
Maybe because I remember what I see, remember what I encounter FIRST HAND as I have grown up in the TWO CLASSES, and I CAN'T BE HYPNOTIZED by the media or propaganda ... I speak out and tick off the liberals/ progressives among the media but simply put ... taxes suck, too much welfare sucks, in general Democrats want the people to GIVE THEM POWER and take away the freedom of the little people because they think we are too stupid to run our own lives.
You want to know why working people tend to vote Republican? Simply put ... if Republicans who are MOSTLY from working people and supposedly conservative by the words and some deeds of the party platform ... it is because working people expect CONSERVATIVES to use common sense to make laws and programs that have the least damage to the PAYCHECK and LIVES Of Working people. GET A CLUE!
However, the Democrats have long been considered the party that purports to support working class goals, and the GOP as the party that serves the agenda of big business.
There is ample proof that these are to a certain extent true, though not entirely.
However, your viewpoint is skewed and contradictory. Poeple do want Social Security and Medicare, and generally the other things they believe the Democrats stand for.
They aren't against welfare or any other part of the safety net, except to the extent that GOP propaganda turns them against these things through fear and lies.
The only blue collar workers I've known who were spontaneously pro-Republican were racists.
Repugs are only tough on the internet. In real life they're pussies! I give you Draft-Dodgers Cheney & Limbaugh, and War Deserter Bush.
Courage is not measured by one's willingness to kill people.
That's right---There is a big difference between people like Clinton who were against the Vietnam War, and dodged the draft, and people like Cheney & Limbaugh who supported the War, and dodged the draft. Also people like Bush who supported the War, but went in the Air National Guard to stay out of Vietnam. Then he missed meetings & would have been sent to Vietnam as punishment, so he deserted.
Peoples' decisions are only driven by monetary concerns.
I know what other people need better than they. "Those poor people. They're not even smart enough to vote for their own interests." Actually, you're all too stupid to see that they do and that you seek to define other peoples' interests from your smug place of moral and intellectual authority.
I vote Democrat, why I don't know, according to your worldview, because I work in a field and have a socioeconomic standing and background that puts me in the other camp. Some things are more important than my wallet to me, and what you all fail to acknowledge is that economic concerns are not everybody's primary motivation in life. You should all be thanking God that that is he case, or none of you would be able to read this post. That teacher who taught you to read and write would have gone and done something in their own exonomic interests instead.
party called "99%" that will win with
an overwhelming majority.
There was a revolution in the 1770'es
and it is time to start another one.
There are progressive billionaires. Why are they silent when the Kochs get so much air time and open their wallets? Those of us who are very short on cash cant keep sending $10 here and there to fund campaigns. Soros,Buffett,e t al:
Open your wallets. You have more wampum than the kochs.
You cant argue with a person whose world view is rigid and fixed without a lot of effort. The progressives in America (and the UK perhaps) need, if possible and I hope it is, to please study industrial history, then read Adam Smith and J.M. Keynes, understand both, and then find a way to shout out the true landscape of political corruption. Attack the right wing use of hate and bigotry as distracting wedge issues. DNC, fire your PR firms and find someone with talent and energy. Please.
Maybe it’s me but how does Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and their ilk fit into his theory...No conservatives need apply?
I think the Right only has to find a societal sore spot and inflame it. Then they have something they can use as a diversion. It is something the people can understand and get upset about. It is the smokescreen/non -issue that is covering the pro-corporate agenda these corrupt bastards are actually displaying in the shadows. People, especially the elders are more apt to just go vote a republican ticket because they are republican. It’s easier than paying attention to issues and current events. They are so terribly depressing after all.
This is total crap...The conservatives are incredibly hostile to small businesses which are much more efficient than big ones...and when I talk small business...i mean 5 or less employes.
They run a year-long version of "Celebrity Gong Show", complete with a dozen "debates" that have the gravitas and educational value of toothpaste commercials, populated by their clown circus of faux-candidates , and end up putting Romney up, perhaps the most inauthentic, wooden doofis to ever compete for president (his wife says he's a card). He makes Nixon, Dole and Bush43 seem like the Marx Brothers. But this guy Haidt is telling us these transparent, self-promoting fools have offered Americans a preferred "moral vision" of the future, compared to feckless lefties misguidedly focused on fairness, justice and the shredded remnants of the "common good"?
Mr. Haidt, you'd better re-read Lakoff's "Moral Politics" before you attempt to plagiarize its core arguments.
Remember when the Hussein statue was pulled down? Now THAT was a perfect example of paid, posted, and prepared audience.
This pseudo-psycholo gical study does not even get close to analyzing the reasons for the phenomena it questions. It is amazing to me that the Republicans BELIEVE in "getting the government out of their lives" but have such a group think loyalist belief in their destructive platforms/polic ies. It is like they never left home and still BELIEVE that "Father knows best." That the authority over them is the means to security. Their philosophy or lack there of is based on fear and the inability to to understand what makes a society function as a whole.
Reagan was a great example of talking down to his audience and playing the grandfather/par ent to a clueless mass. To combat inflation, he devised a tactic of story telling, and comfort words to quell the fears of those who could not think for themselves and had little compassion for the less fortunate. Those who BELIEVE that it is all about themselves are easily duped into wanting someone with more power to take care of them. That is the working class Republicans.
The opposition knows just what button to push to get those so caught up in their racist attitudes to put a gun to their own head, or an ax to their own foot without critically thinking about what they're doing to themselves.
However, the opposition doesn't care as long as you go along with their agenda: which will more than likely be to your own demise and to their benefit.
Simply put far to many of us are just plain self-inflicted and detrimentally stupid! The rules of engagement have never change, and the first rule of conflict is "divide and conquer!" What's left out is, "By any means necessary."
In any case , so-called "economic" bases for actions or attitudes, helpful though they may be, are much too narrow.
If you consider what the parties do, as opposed to what they say, it is clear that the one party represents private corporate interests and the other party represents public corporate interests, hardly a real choice.
Folks tend to see the world through their own mind and heart and assume political parties reflect those views. Good folks who tend to support certain values and character traits want very badly to believe there are those in the government who consider them in the agenda. We all know that is not the case.
Political parties behave in different styles simply to promote the highly lucrative game of politics. The art of propaganda is highly developed in the U.S. but due to those personal views of citizens, they are unable to see the level of propaganda and their susceptibility to it.
You can file these three under obedience to authority. These are not about morality, but use the appearance of morality as a prod to enforce submissive behavior. This is submission to group authority, a religious or self-appointed moral authority who 'pre-sanctifies ', or a de facto authority.
This lock-step conformity makes things like going off to war very easy.
And it's ironic that the party of the Independent Man, standing Alone and Free, is anything but.
The morality that is fed to the conservative masses has a peculiar and familiar flavor. It's fear. Take a close look at the photo at the top of this article.
Really? Sounds like something a conservative would come up with. And in fact, I caught him on Bill Moyers recently. At the end of the interview, he was asked by Moyers where he himself stood politically and his response was that he leaned more to the right.
In any event, I'll easily take George LaKoff's ideas over (Moral Politics: How Liberals and Conservatives Think) Haidt's. Lakoff traces the different worldviews of conservatives and liberals back to the family. Hence, the "Strict Father" model that conservatives subscribe to and the "Nurturant Parent" model that liberals subscribe to.
As for the hierarchical authority of the father, I'd add this: where have we seen that embraced? Not a particular conservative interpretation (read: fundamentalist/ evangelical) of our Judeo-Christian tradition by any chance?
what Haidt identifies as the left/progressiv e basis of thought: "...caring for the weak, sick and vulnerable above all other moral concerns." is the core of the right's beliefs citing their Jesus over and over and over.
i'm not sure if this is an oxymoron or more hypocritical...
The sad part is that conservatives routinely increase the numbers of the opposition by seeking out these perceived "threats" and declaring war on them - completely unprovoked. The conservatives are the continual antagonists and live in a hell of their own making.
I am not saying that Liberals are totally blameless, we do tend to go overboard and like to eat cake for dinner on occasion but our zealous attitude is fueled by that of conservatives. You can't very well save someone who isn't in distress. Bullies cause constant distress and in reality, disrupt any progress toward any harmony - who does that sound like?
It's not rocket science but people like to make it seem that way.
I'd like to see how conservatives in the UK would react if their universal health care was suddenly taken away, probably the way working class conservatives in the US would react to ending SS & Medicare. Cut them a check for the money they paid into the system and leave them to fend for themselves in old age. I'm sure the free market will work it all out.
The conservatives I've known simply resent welfare, even when they receive it, it's the sum total of their ideology, it's usually thinly veiled racism. It's my opinion that the conservative movement of the last 30 years in the US has been based on this simple truth. Throw in gays, guns and abortion and you have a cult.
Welfare is a very small percentage of the budget and Republicans never do much to make cuts, they couldn't survive politically if they did. These facts will not influence a conservative and today they're really pizzed off about the $14 trillion debt from the Bush years while supporting politicians promising even more tax cuts. They seem to believe that cutting food stamps will pay for it all. They're quite delusional, this study is meaningless.
Everything they supposedly stand for comes wrapped in a lukewarm package.
People don't have only moralistic interests. They want to know that their Social Security and Medicare are protected, that their jobs won't be outsourced. And a majority want the rich taxed higher and the wars ended.
The Democrats state (some of) these things, but by no stretch do they sell them. They have no urgency to pick up on and proclaim loudly what the majority has already says it wants.
So single-payer healthcare was never on the table, nor a jobs bill, nor ending the wars, nor prosecuting the war criminals, and so on.
Romney is ahead in the polls. Romney would cut taxes further for the rich and reintroduce the Ryan budget. Where is the Democratic outrage at these things, the president's bully pulpit, the populist agitation on behalf of people's own class against the predatory rich?
Being reasonable is not enough. But then, the Democrats are in many ways no better than GOP-lite, so their message is a not a compelling counter to the demagoguery of the right.
How will the conservatives with this value address this oppression? Can I get LIBERTY from the MARKET? Will the MARKET please leave me alone to do what I need to do?
If we actually had a free market in health care and insurance then you would see the virtues of Liberty in keeping prices down and quality up.
http://andrewgelman.com/2012/06/stop-me-before-i-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa/
http://andrewgelman.com/2012/06/stop-me-before-i-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa/
That is being successfully done at this time by the very skillful myth makers of the Right combined with the endless pots of money of their bosses. "Liberals spit on the sanctity of marriage and human life!" "Obama is a Muslim, secretly disloyal to America and capitalism; an European style Socialist!" Say that often enough and a conservative will vote accordingly.
Liberals need to stay with the caring and fairness PR agenda, but need to add loyalty (to the Constitution, the military etc) sanctity and respect for tradition in their message. I see that Obama is doing at least some of that.
This is the essence of contemporary "conservatism". The ability to believe one is promoting constructive policies while faced with irrefutable evidence that those policies are harming millions of people including themselves.
Only a catastrophic consequence of right-wing political success can change anything, regrettably.
Here are some additional thoughts. Under the care/harm, many conservatives do care about the weak and the vulnerable. However, when caring for the weak and vulnerable also means tax dollars for Planned Parenthood, which provides abortions, many conservatives also care about another weak and vulnerable population - the unborn. Yet when conservatives don't want tax dollars to go for Planned Parenthood, conservatives are accused of being uncaring towards women and the weak and vulnerable. Does private donations to AAA Center for Pregnancy Counseling come into consideration? Or other ministries and private funding towards other groups that care for the weak and vulnerable? Apparently, it's only tax dollars which go specifically for that which the left supports that counts as being caring. I know many caring conservatives who care very deeply about the weak and the vulnerable and know the difference, too.
I don't see any liberals complaining that some very wealthy people who "vote against their economic interests."
It's a good thing that not everyone is just motivated by money because nobody would be able to read or write if that were the case.
bacteria for billions of years
Yes because of the simple design they adapt to adversity but adapting to adversity is not advancing and unless the proper precautions are taken the society could resemble the movie idiocracy . Yes standards should be raised but elimanting summer school and tutoring programs is no way to acheive the higher standards especially for the most disadvantaged folks !!!
We're living in a communist state (sarcasm)
What freedoms being stole are conservatives raving about .Even with a libertarian regime taxes would be collected via a burden some un fair sales taxes . What to exploit and abuse the workers and the enviroment cheat consumers. The freedom to let the undserving pershish the freedom to have unliceance contractors do shoddy work and quack physcians and remedies run wild . To all Ron Paul supporters put down the drugs and pick up a history books.Nobody sane would want to go back to the overly romanticized era of the 19 the century with it's Sweet shops slums and slavery Dicken's sagas were good stories not economic role models .
hash. But just stop and think about what he's saying in his little the-tongue-is-t he moral-mind metaphor. He says the most important moral values are loyalty, respect for authority and a new social order that promotes people taking care of themselves and not depending on the government. He says, "The left has a tendency to place caring for the weak, sick and vulnerable above all other moral concerns." He says that as if it's a bad thing. Sounds like the same Jesus they profess to worship and in fact demand people worship if they want to be a real American; but oddly enough they hate you if you actually do the things Jesus taught. Have I mentioned how much I hate Republicans?
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