Gelb writes: "I'm giving away the deepest, darkest secret of the foreign policy clan: even though we sound like we know everything, we know very little, especially about the intentions of bad guys and the consequences of war. But since the media keeps treating us like sages and keeps ignoring our horrendous mistakes, we carry on with our game, and do a lot of damage."
Senators Lindsey Graham and John McCain. (photo: The Conservative Treehouse)
Dangerous, Ignorant Warmongers
09 March 12
'm not supposed to tell you this. I'm violating the code. I'm giving away the deepest, darkest secret of the foreign policy clan: even though we sound like we know everything, we know very little, especially about the intentions of bad guys and the consequences of war. But since the media keeps treating us like sages and keeps ignoring our horrendous mistakes, we carry on with our game, and do a lot of damage. Let me give you of few of the more recent examples of how ignorant and dangerous we are, and why you should be wary of any flat out “truths” and certainties uttered by my clanspeople.
Take Iran. Those who can't wait to start a war with Iran tell us that Tehran is within three seconds, three months, or a year of developing a nuclear weapon. I promise you they don't know this for anything near a fact. They're trying to push Israel and the United States into a military attack against Iran.
Here's all we do know for sure: Iran is enriching uranium and has the capacity to enrich enough of it to a level of purity sufficient to make nukes - maybe, perhaps, in a year or two or more. Iran may have or may be developing related capacities to place this uranium into explosive form in a bomb or missile warhead. We have suspicions about the latter based on various kinds of imaging and listening intelligence.
Now, are these activities something to worry about? Absolutely! But it is not a basis for going to war now or soon. It is a basis for Americans, Israelis, and others to find out more as quickly as possible through better intelligence and diplomacy. Yes, diplomacy, because we can argue forever about exactly what the Iranians have and intend, but making diplomatic proposals allows us to test our hypotheses. If Tehran rejects reasonable proposals, then there are grounds for raising suspicions and waving the war wand.
By the way, this isn't just my view. It is the consensus position of U.S. intelligence agencies. Equally telling, it is what retired senior Israeli intelligence chiefs and military officers have been shouting from the rooftops publicly, totally contrary to the code of silence on these matters.
Israeli and American hawks are also proclaiming that we need not worry about the consequences of an attack on Iran, that the Iranians could not or would not do anything that should trouble us deeply. Hold on to your wallet here. How do they know if Tehran will strike back at, say, Saudi or Iraqi oil fields and drive oil prices into the stratosphere, or launch terrorist attacks against American, Israelis, and others worldwide? Of course, I don't know either. But these are real risks that we must accept and reckon with before attacking Iran.
Take Syria. The war twins, Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham, along with the usual cohort of neoconservatives and humanitarian interventionists, are urging military action. They want airstrikes and arms for the Syrian rebels, no-fly zones, and so forth. They can't stand President Bashar al-Assad killing his people. None of us can. But why are the neocons so riled up about several thousand Syrian deaths, when they are practically mum about the millions killed and being killed in Africa? Why don't they advocate arming the Tibetans? Well, we know why they don't want war with China. For the time being, all they desire is to beef up U.S. military spending and presence in Asia. Then, we'll see.
So, one might suspect that their passion for Washington "to lead" on Syria and get into another war there turns on something other than saving lives. Try Iran. They want to weaken Iran's position in the Arab world, with its great Syrian ally, and with Iranian-backed extremists like Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza. It is a noble goal.
But again what of the consequences, or better, the risks? The interventionists, for example, plead to arm Syrian rebels. But who are those rebels exactly? Oh, former Syrian soldiers. Oh, people fighting against Assad's tyranny. That's fine. But who else are they? Are there major al Qaeda elements among them, or other Muslim extremists? Would they be a bigger threat to Israel and to Arab neighbors like Jordan than Assad himself? The warmongers say not to worry, but they don't know the answers to any of these questions. Nor do they have any idea what these "freedom fighters" would do with Assad's chemical weapons. Nor have the interventionists begun to explain how they would conduct air operations over Syria, and what more they'd be prepared to do if those air attacks failed to stop Assad's killings.
There's an even longer list of questions that the war humanitarians should be made to answer before any president lifts his sword. Americans need protection from these snake-oil salesmen, and that protection depends almost entirely on Congress and the media. They have got to be much tougher with the experts, pin them down on what they know and don't know and what facts their views are based on. They've got to demand real answers, and not let the experts escape with slogans like "lead" and "take action," or "that will all work out." But it is the rarest of occasions when legislators or journalists bear down on the experts. If the questioners don't do their job once again, as with Iraq and Afghanistan, then we'll be in wars once again. And once again, we'll be very sorry. But the interventionists won't be. They never are. They'll just want to keep fighting every war forever until we "win."
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Evidence of War Lies Public Pre-War This Time
http://warisacrime.org/content/evidence-war-lies-public-pre-war-time
excerpt:
"When President George W. Bush was pretending to want to avoid a war on Iraq while constantly pushing laughably bad propaganda to get that war going, we had a feeling he was lying... Now President Barack Obama is pretending to want to avoid a war on Iran and to want Israel not to start one, while constantly pushing laughably bad propaganda to get that war going. ....
given the ongoing protection of Israel at the U.N. from any accountability for crimes, given the embrace of sanctions highly unlikely to lead to anything other than greater prospects of war, and given Obama's refusal to take openly illegal war "off the table."
However, we now have Wikileaks cables and comments from anonymous officials that served as the basis for a report from the Israeli newspaper Haaretz:
"..the United States approve the sale of advanced refueling aircraft as well as GBU-28 bunker-piercing bombs to Israel
I can't find anything factually wrong in this post.
It doesn't matter whether it is factually correct or a new social language which a HIDDEN COALITION of oppositionists show up for a NEGATIVE VOTE, but too cowardly to reveal who they are or what their counter arguments are about.
Go on my site: A SOCIAL MANIFESTO AND THEORY OF HISTORY.....http://asocialmanifestoagainstclasshistory.com.
And you will discover on the HOME PAGE, that there was an, or several organized, totalitarian groups who drove out social thinkers from social sites like NEWSVINE.
There are so many strange totalitarian bedfellows who have their own deformed class/Empire agenda. My own hunch is that the Zionist Christian and Jewish Fascists are at the top of the list, followed by U.S. military propaganda secret outfits and last the class whoring Obama community, mostly sell out African Americans who want a Fascist African leader because he is black.
This combined hierarchical corrupt reactionalry coalition of strange bedfellows will never reveal who they are or what moral arguments they have, because they HAVE NONE.
I disagree with his support (albeit unenthusiastic) for sanctions because they harm people, and don't affect the government as much.
GW likes his father always wants War. World is a Risk Game...only this time I believe the GOP/TP Kids should be the ones only to go. They want to Kill...let them go to War. If they are witnin the age of being drafted and hold Public Office, than they must be drafted there is not allowance for not going into War. When all their kids go, than the moral majority must be drafted also.
I am tired of the Have's not going to War. No exemptions for Koch Bros, Exxon, or any Political Ties. Draft means Adios
But even worse, Gelb accepts the premise of both imperialists about the problem of not knowing what Assad or Achmadinejad or other "bad people" so-called might do. They are not the problem. The imperialists of both liberal and neo-conservativ e camps are the problem. And we know exactly what they will do -- they will start as many wars as they possibly can. As Bush said, some of these wars you will see and some you will not see.
The US has been involved in 183 military conflicts in its 225 years of existence. And this includes only the overt wars fought by US troops in uniform. It does not include the 1000s of covert wars fought by mercenaries, surrogate armies, CIA assassinations, and covert ops.
We know exactly what the imperialists in the US will do because they always do the same things. They will invade Syria and Iran and destroy both nations, just as they did in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, and hundreds more.
By being "tough" on experts, Gelb should have said we need to prosecute our imperialists in the International Criminal Court. Some should be executed and some should spend a very long time in jail.
Does it Matter Whether Obama "Wants" War on Iran?
http://warisacrime.org/content/does-it-matter-whether-obama-wants-war-iran
excerpt:
I've been hearing, since Obama's remarks this week that, "The one thing we have not done is we have not launched a war" on Iran, that Barack Obama doesn't "want" a war. That could be true.
But every speech he has given on about Iran shows the one thing he won't give up on: domination of Iran, and the whole region. If that takes war, then, Obama says, he will wage it. He said to the AIPAC meeting a few days ago,
"Iran’s leaders should understand that I do not have a policy of containment; I have a policy to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon. And as I have made clear time and again during the course of my presidency, I will not hesitate to use force when it is necessary to defend the United States and its interests."
Larry Everest...writes,
This narrative is built on lies, half-truths, innuendos, and distortions. In reality, top Western politicians know there's no proof that Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons, and that there is no definitive evidence that Iran has a nuclear weapons program..."
If Iran is not pursuing weapons grade nuclear material, why are they going to such lengths to hide their activities? Why not be above board, and above ground, and let any inspector who wants come and take a look? Why is Iran pursuing nuclear electrical generating capacity when they sit on an ocean of oil? I think concern for global warming is unlikely.
I for one believe Iran is developing a nuclear weapons capability. Not to blow up Israel, that would be suicide, but, taking a lesson from North Korea, to use as a big stick to manipulate the West. That is what the West cannot tolerate; a powerful oil-rich nation among other oil-rich nations, that is not subject to their control. A nuclear armed Iran would be the dominant nation in the Middle East. Saudi Arabia, more precisely the Saudi royal family, is more terrified of a nuclear armed Iran than Israel is.
This is the realpolitik of the real world, and Obama is following the most sensible course of action.
That, globalcitizen, is the reasoning behind my negative vote on your rant.
There's a lot of cognitive dissonance in the US, especially around election time.
I feel good about these red marks, negative votes, who never come up with counter arguments, except to hide their disproval, leaving no trace of any arguments for discussion, or who they might be. Confidence about one's position requires engagement and testing of one's logic and moral stance.
Israeli and American hawks are also proclaiming that we need not worry about the consequences of an attack on Iran, that the Iranians could not or would not do anything that should trouble us deeply.
Unquote
Only one word fits in here: HORSESHIT!
At this moment 90+% of our mine-sweeping capability is focused on the Straights of Hormuz. This is common knowledge!
With little or no risk, ANY foreign organization (Hezbolla, for instance) with a access to a commercial fleet has only to CLAIM that they just mined all of our major harbors on both coasts. Within minutes of that announcement, all harbors will be locked down and all shipping into and out of the USA will shut down until the USN declares all harbors free of mines again.
An even worse scenario would be "someone's" kicking surplus Russian time delay, counter, multiple influence mines off of the fantail of cargo ships in various strategic ports here and abroad. . . and keeping their actions secret until the explosions begin. That would stop all shipping everywhere: oil, grain, everything.
The fact is that we CAN be hit hard in many ways, and the very idea - especially coming from the likes of McCain Lieberman & Lindsey - that "Iran can't hurt us" is ludicrous, insane. irresponsible . . . and ought to be grounds for impeachment.
Does this mean they would have us attack EVERYONE who can't strike back?
We get militarily involved overseas only if there is oil or some other strategic material to be gained by such attacks---but we're talking, primarily, about oil right now/. ;
Unfortunately, this unbelievable degree of Ignorance, Dooms-Day Folly, Dream-like, in the worst way, is somehow truly upon us.
Our Mainstream Morons, Republicans, Democrats and Most Media Outlets, alike, are marching In Step. Angry Children with Lethal Toys.
Time For Intervention, if this planet is to be preserved for any Future Life (as we know it).
It's a frightening time, with demagogues ascendant. We're all quick to suspect perfidy and anger easily.
It'd be nice to keep this park civilized.
Pre-emptive WAR is never the answer.
What can you expect from a one-track minded bone-head like McCain. He lost his voice when Obama shut down Iraq, .. ending soon Afghanistan.
With the moderate but steady gains in the economy the Republicans are slipping into irrelvance and they are at the brink of panic.
Obama may have slipped on a few things re foreign policy but not this one.
AMEN Leslie
Can someone who is voting thumbs down please give a reason so that there can be some sort of discussion on the topic?
There is a tool called 'dialectics' ('both-sides') or 'debate' (French 'de' = 'undo' + 'bate' = 'the fight'), which is a basic human obligation and right. With suspicion comes the obligation to approach the other party with concerns & give them the time to respond in an equal-time recorded and published dialogue. Why do we ignore this obligation?
Dwight Eisenhower identified the Military Industrial-Medi a Complex as having economic interest in war at all times. MIMC has a 2-dimensional linear self-imposed ignorance & inability to reach out. Mohandas Gandhi's 'Satya-graha' (Hindi = 'truth-search' grew from his dialectic training as a lawyer. Gandhi's understanding led him to always ask, even of the British beasts who were impoverishing & massacring Indian people, "What are your best intentions and how can we help you achieve these?" The following 'Both-Sides-Now , equal time recorded & published dialogues' is a tool which can be used by anyone anywhere with or without a mediator. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/structure/1-both-sides-now-article
IT'S CALLED OCEAN ACCESS.
The first part of the job was colonizing Iraq. That's useless unless that pillaged oil makes it to the shipping routes of the Mediteranian and Indian Ocean. Check out a map and tell me what two countries are now in the way of acces to the Indian Ocean and the Mediteranian Sea....
I'll wait....
Weird "coincidence" huh?
"The first part of the job was colonizing Iraq. That's useless unless that pillaged oil makes it to the shipping routes of the Mediteranian and Indian Ocean. Check out a map and tell me what two countries are now in the way of access to the Indian Ocean and the Mediterranian Sea...."
Weird "coincidence" huh?
Billy Bob, not a weird coincidence at all. You are to the heart of the matter. Those countries you refer to are Syria and Iran. It's always been about the oil and control of finite resources. Everything else was smoke and mirrors.
The geopolitics of the Middle East has everything to do with shipping lanes and access to oil.
The "Dangerous, Ignorant Warmongers" know this. (perfect title btw)
And they are so beholding to Big Oil that they will gladly cut loose the dogs of war rather than pour money and brain power into research for alternative renewable energy. It's insane.
Draft must be reimplemented and no exceptions, no job is good enough including Senator/Preside nt. You are under 45 you can be drafted. Law School, Med can all get their internships, credits by working in MASH Units, Triage, Legal can get some first hand learning in Liaison, other ICS posts.
No Kids left behind your are 18 to 45 (remember social security age went up so does service age). You are fit to serve and die for your Country, everyone else and their kids have
The IAEA does want to revisit a site they have visited at least twice in the past. For a reason I do not understand, IAEA does not want Iran producing heavy water (which is not required for nuclear weapons, but is required for nuclear power plants). And IAEA says it cannot confirm things it does not know about, which is an obvious declaration for all of us about virtually everything.
Please read the actual November 2011 and February 2012 Status Reports on Iran, available at the IAEA website. They are neither too long nor too technical (for the most part) to understand. Among things you will notice are that IAEA is not only visiting numerous sites and concluding that all is as Iran declares, but IAEA is also sampling the air in, apparently, many places.
However, the reality is that many people are convinced by flimsy excuses tied to national pride. It is neither bad nor irrational for people to love their country. So, it does little good to challenge people's love of their country by imagining that the most obvious thing is for most everyone to recognize how wrong they have been.
In short, your being "right" and $1.50 will get you a pint of Coke.
It is more important to work early and often at challenging the flimsy excuses as they emerge...by learning and widely sharing the facts that counter flimsy excuse in the making.
Instead of focusing on how stupid everyone is, you can help inoculate people against flimsy excuses. And then you can make a real contribution to Peace.
Spread Facts. Create Peace.
Can anyone imagine that Israel would allow international inspections of their already well developed nuclear war arsenals?
I wonder!!!
Iran got rid of him in the revolution, (when they took our embassy and kept the people for a long time. Khomeni became the ruler.
and shortly after,.. Saddam attacked Iran,.. and since we hated Iran, WE HELPED Saddam, and supplied him with CHEMICAL weapons, which killed and maimed many thousands Iranians.
Iran was choked by the 9-11 attack, and through the Swiss embassy offered to help train the Afghan police, when we attacked Afghanistan. Not only did Rumsfeld not bother to answer Iran's letter. Bush shortly after called Iran, Iraq and North Korea the AXIS OF EVIL, and THEN attacked Iraq.
Knowing that N. Korea had Nukes and Iraq did not. The message was clear: If you want to be left in peace: GET NUKES IN A HURRY.
Are they acting in self defense: HELL YES.
The terrible part is that few Americans know history, so it is easy for war mongers, to whip up the hatred.
When I tell people this they are in total disbelief, and I make a point of telling these facts, for IT IS IMPORTANT.
I have some ability to persuade,... maybe they can see that I am dead serious in trying to do what I can to make people see the light before we end up in disaster?? You seem like such reasonable people......You MUST be women...ha, ha, just joking, but I am not joking when saying that we must talk to as many people as possible.
If you agree with me, please talk with other people, .....It ia the first day of spring let's make it a happy spring. (remember daylight savings time tonight)
I have read plenty about your miserable governor and his emergency managers.- Sickening.- Can you not try to recall him??
I think the Wisconsinites will be able to kick out their terrible governor, Walker, and some state senators too. It is good to know that there are committed people and "meet" some of you HERE.
They are as complacent as a seriously,
senile, elderly person.
And how can it be different,when there
are so few investigative journalists
writing mainly for alternative media,
that the average American never see.
Earth is creatiive. It nourishes us. As human beings, we are All totally dependent upon it for our every breath, for water, for food.
We, too, have the ability to be creative. We use our creativity not to nurture but to create thermonuclear weaponry for the destruction of life and earth -- our minds to divide.
I certainly don't have confidence in his avoiding war on any of the grounds you mentioned: that it’s 1) stupid, 2) immoral, or 3) located in the Middle East.
Regarding the lesser of two evils, it has gotten to the point where distinguishing which is the lesser has gotten too difficult. Obama is responsible for killing hundreds of children and innocent adults with drones, initiating aggressive wars – both covert and overt (even when Congress voted against going to war), sanctioning other war crimes such as torture by American leaders and other regimes, promoting indefinite detention and assassination by fiat and in secrecy, targeting whistleblowers while protecting the actual high-level corporate and government criminals… I could go on and on. Yes, the Republicans (except Ron Paul) are horrible on every conceivable issue that exists, but Obama is horrible on so many issues of vital importance to the future of Americans, people of the world, and the planet itself that I genuinely don’t see how distinctions among them are meaningful.
Re: how easy it would be, according to the war mongers to attack Iran, remember when Jimmy Carter tried to rescue the hostages and all American soldiers landing in a remote place
in Iran were killed by the Iranians in their defense against the invasion. Very tragic since no hostage was killed. And remember how, just a few months ago, Iran was able to intercept one of our super secret drones with very little damage.
I think it would be suicide for our kids in the military if we get involved in any way in an attack on Iran.
Dr F.Dejahang uk
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