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Parry writes: "After Secretary of State Kerry lashed out at Russia's RT network over its reporting on Ukraine, a senior aide assembled a list of particulars, which have backfired by showing how weak Kerry's case is and how hypocritical Kerry's State Department has been."

The US secretary of state John Kerry (left) meets the Ukrainian foreign minister, Andriy Deshchytsya, in Geneva. (photo: Pool)
The US secretary of state John Kerry (left) meets the Ukrainian foreign minister, Andriy Deshchytsya, in Geneva. (photo: Pool)


Who's the Propagandist: US or RT?

By Robert Parry, Consortium News

01 May 14

 

he U.S. State Department, which has been caught promoting a series of false or dubious stories about Ukraine, is trying to give some substance to Secretary of State John Kerry’s counter-complaint that Russia’s RT network is a “propaganda bullhorn” promoting Russian President Vladimir Putin’s “fantasy.”

In a “Dipnote” of April 29, Richard Stengel, under secretary of state for public diplomacy, made some broad-brush criticisms of RT’s content – accusing the network of painting “a dangerous and false picture of Ukraine’s legitimate government” by citing examples of fascism, anti-Semitism and terrorism surrounding the Kiev regime.

Stengel claims he knows the difference between news and propaganda because he spent seven years as managing editor of Time. He defines propaganda as “the deliberate dissemination of information that you know to be false or misleading in order to influence an audience” and asserts: “RT is a distortion machine, not a news organization.”

But Stengel offers no specific citations of the supposedly propagandistic stories done by RT, making it impossible to ascertain the precise wording or context of the RT content that he is criticizing. One basic rule of journalism is “show, don’t tell,” but Stengel apparently didn’t learn that during his seven years in the top echelon of Time magazine.

Nevertheless, Stengel accuses RT of “disinformation” ranging from “assertions that peaceful protesters hired snipers to repeated allegations that Kiev is beset by violence, fascism and anti-Semitism, these are lies falsely presented as news.”

Though it’s impossible to fully assess Stengel’s complaint because he doesn’t specify the offending stories, the first complaint is an apparent reference to the mystery surrounding the identity of snipers who opened fire on protesters and police during the Maidan protests in Kiev on Feb. 20.

The U.S. government, the U.S. press and the Maidan protesters were quick to blame President Viktor Yanukovych although he denied giving an order to fire on the protests and suggested the shootings may have been a provocation. That suspicion of “false-flag” violence – as a way to spur on the coup against Yanukovych – also was expressed by some neutral observers on the ground in Kiev.

Two European Union officials, Estonia’s Foreign Minister Urmas Paet and European Union foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton, were revealed discussing in a phone call their suspicions that elements of the protesters were responsible for the shootings.

“So there is a stronger and stronger understanding that behind snipers it was not Yanukovych, it was somebody from the new coalition,” Paet told Ashton, as reported by the UK Guardian.

In other words, if Stengel is referring to RT’s reporting about the sniper attacks, his assumption that RT was knowingly lying when it referenced a possible role of the Maidan protesters in the sniper shootings is itself false. Further, Stengel must have known that not all the Maidan protesters were “peaceful.”

Hide the Neo-Nazis

Although the State Department has tried to hide the crucial role of neo-Nazi militias in overthrowing Yanukovych’s elected government, it was well known at the time (and acknowledged by the Maidan protesters themselves) that far-right groups had organized 100-man brigades to carry out the final attacks. There was also widely broadcast news footage of these Maidan protesters hurling Molotov cocktails at police, more than a dozen who died in the clashes.

Is Stengel really unaware of the involvement in the coup by neo-Nazi storm troopers from the Right Sektor and the Svoboda party, which both lionize World War II Nazi collaborator Stepan Bandera? Does Stengel really not know about the prevalence of banners honoring Bandera, Nazi insignias at rallies and even the appearance of the Confederate battle flag unfurled at the Kiev City Hall as the universal symbol of white supremacy?

Just because virtually the entire U.S. press corps has joined in the U.S. government’s propagandized version of what happened during and after the violent overthrow of Yanukovych doesn’t mean that RT and other news organizations have to shut their eyes, too.

For instance, the BBC, which is funded by the British government much as RT is funded by the Russian government, had the courage to run a segment on the Maidan’s neo-Nazis, noting that the far-right groups were given four ministries in the new government in recognition of their important contribution.

Most significantly, the new chief of national security, Andriy Parubiy, was one of those neo-Nazis. He founded the Social-National Party of Ukraine in 1991, blending radical Ukrainian nationalism with neo-Nazi symbols. Parubiy also formed a paramilitary spinoff, the Patriots of Ukraine, and defended the awarding of the title, “Hero of Ukraine,” to Bandera, whose paramilitary forces joined with the Nazis in exterminating Poles and Jews during World War II.

During the months of protests aimed at overthrowing Yanukovych, Parubiy became the commandant of “Euromaidan,” the name for the Kiev uprising. Then, in mid-April as the new regime’s national security chief and facing growing resistance in eastern Ukraine, Paubiy warned that he was siccing some of his paramilitary veterans, now incorporated in the National Guard, on the anti-regime protesters. On Twitter, he wrote, “Reserve unit of National Guard formed #Maidan Self-defense volunteers was sent to the front line this morning.”

Some leading neo-Nazis have been brazen in their assertion of Ukrainian racial superiority over other ethnic groups in Ukraine, including the ethnic Russians in the east. Like their hero Bandera, these modern-day storm troopers would prefer an ethnically pure Ukraine.

Though it is true that most of the Maidan protesters were there in support of closer European ties and anger over government corruption, it is also true that the neo-Nazi militias surged to the front of the protests for the final clashes on Feb. 20-22. [See Consortiumnews.com’s “Ukraine, Though the US ‘Looking Glass.’”]

And, as for Stengel’s insistence that RT’s reporting that “Kiev is beset by violence” is further proof of RT’s “propaganda,” there’s the inconvenient reality that far-right forces have been clashing with other Maidan protesters over the past few days. Some of these ultra-nationalists want more rewards for their role in Yanukovych’s ouster and some want a harsher crackdown on the uprising in the ethnic Russian east.

Who’s Playing Terrorist Card?

In his unspecified litany of other purported RT offenses, Stengel also cites “the constant reference to any Ukrainian opposed to a Russian takeover of the country as a ‘terrorist.’ Or the unquestioning repetition of the ludicrous assertion last week that the United States has invested $5 billion in regime change in Ukraine.

“These are not facts, and they are not opinions. They are false claims, and when propaganda poses as news it creates real dangers and gives a green light to violence.”

However, regarding the use of the word “terrorist,” which Stengel finds so offensive, it has actually been applied promiscuously not by RT but by the Kiev regime and the U.S. State Department against the anti-regime protesters in eastern Ukraine though they have not engaged in behavior that is traditionally considered “terrorism.”

The Russian ethnic protesters in the east have engaged in no indiscriminate killing of civilians for political purposes, the classic definition of “terrorism.” Yet, the post-coup regime in Kiev has repeatedly announced plans for an “anti-terrorism” campaign against the east. In other words, Stengel’s “side” is guilty of what he accuses RT of doing.

As for RT’s “ludicrous assertion” about the U.S. investing $5 billion, that is a clear reference to a public speech by Assistant Secretary of State for European Affaris Victoria Nuland to U.S. and Ukrainian business leaders on Dec. 13 in which she told them that “we have invested more than $5 billion” in what was needed for Ukraine to achieve its “European aspirations.”

Nuland also was a leading proponent of “regime change” in Ukraine who personally cheered on the Maidan demonstrators, even passing out cookies. In an intercepted, obscenity-laced phone call with U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt, Nuland said her choice to replace Yanukovych was Arseniy Yatsenyuk, who ended up as Prime Minister after the coup.

If Stengel wants to quibble about whether Nuland’s $5 billion remark was a reference to “regime change” or not – although the European association was a key issue in Yanukovych’s ouster – the under secretary can make his argument. But to ignore the obvious context of Nuland’s $5 billion reference is again either a sign of stunning ignorance or willful deception.

As for Stengel’s office of “public diplomacy,” it is a segment of the State Department that I have personally dealt with since the 1980s during my days covering the Reagan administration’s Central America policies for the Associated Press and Newsweek.

Back then, some of us referred to the “PD” office as “the office of propaganda and disinformation” because of the endless distortions and lies generated in support of U.S.-backed “death squad” regimes in El Salvador and Guatemala and for Ronald Reagan’s beloved Nicaraguan Contra rebels who fairly could be called “terrorist” given their proclivity for slaughtering and raping Nicaraguan civilians and for collaborating with cocaine traffickers to make money on the side.

The Earlier Brave Kerry

Ironically, in those days, a younger version of John Kerry was a U.S. senator who bravely investigated these Reagan-affiliated crimes and faced attacks from the State Department’s public diplomacy operatives.

Part of Kerry’s punishment for being early in his investigation of White House skullduggery in Central America was to be excluded from the Iran-Contra investigation when some of Reagan’s crimes and lies surfaced dramatically in late 1986.

Because Kerry had been ahead of the curve, he was judged “biased” on the issue of Reagan’s guilt and thus passed over for the “select committee” investigation. Only Democratic senators who had been fooled by the lies or were asleep at the switch were deemed “objective” enough for the high-profile inquiry. [For more on the contrast between Kerry's past and present, see Consortiumnews.com’s “What’s the Matter with John Kerry?”]

Another irony of Stengel’s defense of Kerry’s anti-RT outburst is that one of the senior “public diplomacy” operatives on Central America back in the 1980s was a young neocon named Robert Kagan, whose State Department team developed propaganda themes to undercut Kerry and various journalists, like myself, who would not toe the line.

At one point when Kagan realized that I would not play ball with the administration’s propaganda, he informed me that I would have to be “controversialized,” that is become the focus of public attacks from pro-Reagan attack groups and thus have my journalistic career damaged, a process that was subsequently carried out.

The irony in this is that Robert Kagan went on to become a leading light in the neocon movement, a Washington Post columnist, a co-founder of the Project for the New American Century, a star proponent of Iraqi “regime change” – and the husband of Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, the recent cheerleader for “regime change” in Ukraine.

That Stengel, the current master of the State Department’s “public diplomacy” operation, is now offended by what he considers “propaganda” by RT has to be considered one of the purest expressions of hypocrisy in the long history of U.S. government hypocrisy. [For more on this topic, see Consortiumnews.com’s “Kerry’s Propaganda War on Russia’s RT.”]

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Comments   

A note of caution regarding our comment sections:

For months a stream of media reports have warned of coordinated propaganda efforts targeting political websites based in the U.S., particularly in the run-up to the 2016 presidential election.

We too were alarmed at the patterns we were, and still are, seeing. It is clear that the provocateurs are far more savvy, disciplined, and purposeful than anything we have ever experienced before.

It is also clear that we still have elements of the same activity in our article discussion forums at this time.

We have hosted and encouraged reader expression since the turn of the century. The comments of our readers are the most vibrant, best-used interactive feature at Reader Supported News. Accordingly, we are strongly resistant to interrupting those services.

It is, however, important to note that in all likelihood hardened operatives are attempting to shape the dialog our community seeks to engage in.

Adapt and overcome.

Marc Ash
Founder, Reader Supported News

 
-31 # beachboy 2014-05-01 13:46
...the pro-Russian storm troopers in the east are definitely terrorizing the population! Look at today's photos of seriously bloodied pro-Ukrainian demonstrators, chased into backyards and beaten up badly with clubs by entire gangs of pro-Russian thugs. Their 'crime'? The carrying of a flag of their own country in the demonstration. The selfappointed, macho 'Mayor' Ponomaryo orders the citizens around to stay inside, threatening by standing orders to execute anyone who is found with a government leaflet!!! That's terrorism. Please, look closer and revise analysis.
 
 
-29 # akarpiej 2014-05-01 15:40
I agree, Parry covers the reality with the cloud of his own ideological thinking. It's one thing to make arguments about good or bad policy, it's quite another to distort or ignore facts. Parry is good ideologue and propagandist... a prolific writer of words...
 
 
-1 # akarpiej 2014-05-01 15:53
NA
 
 
+17 # jojo5056 2014-05-01 13:46
nonsense! "whose paramilitary forces joined with the Nazis in exterminating Poles and Jews during World War II." Again false USA propaganda. Zionist Germans/America ns were involved in the mutual deal to over populate Palestine with Polish Jews. How do you account for over 175,000 Jews were forced to settle into Palestine by Germans prior to 1938.
Ever Questioned how,when (Benzion
Mileikowsky) Benjamin Netanyahu's Polish family arrived into Palestine. Sure didn't freely immigrate.
 
 
-22 # bmiluski 2014-05-01 14:51
jojo5056....you are mixing up several different events. Do you think you can possibly stick to one topic preferably the topic of today's column.
The russians are using para-military forces to over-throw an Ukranian government. The pictures and taped interviews are self-evident.
 
 
-7 # akarpiej 2014-05-01 15:42
I agree, JoJo seems to be confusing the 1940s and the present.
 
 
+22 # Steve B 2014-05-01 13:53
Kerry sold his soul to the military industrial state more than two decades ago when he pulled the plug on the Iran Contra hearings in exchange for the privilege of being a presidential candidate down the line. We see how well that went.

This encounter is clearly empire vs. empire and calls forth the question, "What if they gave a war and there were no good guys?"
 
 
+3 # wantrealdemocracy 2014-05-01 20:34
Kerry had no soul to sell after his fine time killing anyone that moved in his short time in Vietman. He was an opportunist when he came home dripping questionable metals with no physical damage. When he realized the people of this nation had turned against the war, he stood up and threw his worthless metals over the fence at the White House.

Kerry is an opportunist and has no soul. That wes not blood on his shirt. It was Katsup. Kerry the Catsup King!
 
 
-30 # akarpiej 2014-05-01 14:00
Parry is clearly a journalist with an ideological axe to grind. That's a whole other matter that makes his writing so tiresome for me, especially as I read his "analysis" of the political turmoil in Ukraine and the respective involvement of the US/"West" and the Russian Federation. Now in this commentary, decrying propaganda, he compares the US and RT, the latter being a media outlet. US behavior can be compared to Russian Federation behavior as nations/governm ents. But the comparison of a nation/governme nt and a media outlet is illogical. I would love to have Parry spend some of his analytical brain cycles comparing something meaningful -- like reports on Ukraine by US/Western vs Russian media outlets... then we might actually learn something about the role of propaganda in this conflict. With what Parry serves us, we just learn what he wants us to learn from his ideological standpoint.... oh, and that sounds like propaganda. Good analysis of the propaganda war that is being conducted by both sides?
 
 
+28 # curmudgeon 2014-05-01 14:18
Sounds like all the 'good Germans' have jumped on Parry's analysis.

Administration stooges is a more apt description.
 
 
-21 # akarpiej 2014-05-01 15:46
Interesting way of pursuing an "argument." Like Parry's, the rhetoric of a propagandist.
 
 
+4 # Majikman 2014-05-01 23:51
curmudgeon, I thought I was the only one who picked up on that. Silly me.
 
 
+44 # GrittedTeeth 2014-05-01 14:18
"Who's the Propagandist: US or RT?"

There is a British expression in answer - it is "stating the bleeding obvious". US is the more craven propagandist, shameless in its barefaced hypocrisy. They have lost all moral standing.
 
 
+2 # mighead 2014-05-03 06:37
Our ethics in this one stink to the heavens!!!
 
 
+35 # rglorioso 2014-05-01 14:22
Kerry is just carrying out the long time policies of the US to "spread democracy," most recently Iraq and Afghanistan and you know how that has turned out. And our efforts since the 50s to undermine states that side with anyone but us, like Iran and Vietnam and you know how that has turned out. Now, after we drove the overthrow of the DEMOCRATICALLY elected leader of Ukraine, what else can Kerry do? We have to cease our imperialist ways before Kerry or any other leaders can do anything different. This is especially difficult with the "Bundy like" neo-con war mongers and their faux noise machines screaming things like "Bomb, Bomb, Bomb Iran.
 
 
+31 # Guy 2014-05-01 14:37
Good to see some true journalism in this day and age of propaganda ,lies and deceit.
 
 
+10 # JSRaleigh 2014-05-01 14:41
Of course, there's no chance that they're both lying through their teeth.

Mercutio: A plague on both your houses
 
 
+4 # bmiluski 2014-05-01 14:54
JSRaleigh...... ..absolutely... .
 
 
-24 # sergeart 2014-05-01 16:04
Once again - another glorification of Mr. Putin - a dictator with the dream to restore the Soviet Union.

The RT is Russian government (read - Putin) owned and fully controlled propaganda machine. Comparing a Russian TV station and US government official is kind of intentionally deceiving. You can compare official against official or TV station against TV station. This type of comparison will not suit Mr. Parry, especially when Putin is simply lying through his teeth - when he said there is no Russian troops in Crimea, for instance, or that Russia has no intention of annexing Crimea. Why Mr. Parry is doing this type of comparison?
 
 
+39 # Anonymot 2014-05-01 16:10
It must be a good and accurate article if only because it brought out all of the State Dept. shills who write "Comments" to news articles.

Parry is clear and specific. Anyone who knows the neocon team of Stengel & Nuland know the unfortunate role they have played in the Ukraine affair, among others. What I wish someone could come up with is 1. the money trail of Nuland's admitted expenditure of 5 BILLION DOLLARS to set up this Ukraine debacle and 2. why our "Democrat" President keeps so many neofascists in his entourage.
 
 
+17 # mighead 2014-05-01 17:37
Re: the money trail...

I believe Nuland's words were:
"$5B in CONTRACTS"...

My take is whenever the US agency The National Endowment for Democracy (NED - a CIA spinoff) gets involved...and Ukraine is THEIR agenda...they move in on several fronts.

First is PR: they give briefings and 'teach-ins' on their 'projects' to the mainstream press - so they keep the press mouthing their story through their whole 'project'. That's why all of the news media sounds the same and spouts the same PR.

Second is the 'action items': for Ukraine it was months of 65 special projects in the target zone including training. These are designed to cover all the local bases. The people in power. Setting up protests and demonstrations. Working with the local media to foment unrest and control the 'spin'. Likely the neo-Nazis were trained many months before the actual violent takeover. They took over army barracks and weapons. I'm guessing they were one of the critical elements on NED's 'to do' list.

Third is corporate support: Corporate contracts/deals are the key to the whole business. They fund the efforts and enable the whole process and reap the rewards. The corporations follow in the wake of these takeovers to plunder the assets and take over day-to-day control.

Likely there were $5B in contracts already lined before the takeover. First are Shell and Chevron getting fracking contracts. I'm also hearing that Monsanto and other corporations are in line for deals.
 
 
+23 # mighead 2014-05-01 17:51
I could care less about Russian PR and lies.

My concern is OUR government lying to us; basically throughout the entire Ukraine story; from our initial involvement to present.

This was totally arranged within the White House, State Dept, CIA, NSA and other government agencies. And coordinated internationally with the EU and NATO as well other 'friendly allies' such as 5 Eyes (UK, Canada, New Zealand, Aussies and us).

It is probable that our actions in Ukraine will ignite a civil war there and could easily result in a nuclear WW3 and the end of the world as we know it.

All without the knowledge and consent of Congress or the American people.

And our purpose is to de-stabilize a stable nuclear state???!!!

Straight out of Dr. Strangelove - including the Happy Ending!!!
 
 
+11 # m... 2014-05-01 19:41


''This was totally arranged within the White House, State Dept, CIA, NSA and other government agencies. …''

Lets not forget to put Wall Street's long, hard and successfully fought for ad hoc title of
'PRIVATIZED' Government Agencies in front of today's reality of what used to be OUR Government…

It begs the bigger questions: Who are actually the WHOs behind all of this here, there and everywhere.. and what is the actual reasoning for such an obscured, skewered, multilayered, multidimensiona l confrontation ?

Maybe part of it is an East West confrontation of OLIGARCHS…

...
 
 
+11 # mighead 2014-05-02 01:54
Good point...

When we convinced Gorbachev and Yeltsin to 'privatize' Russian assets...we CREATED those very same Oligarchs!!!

That's the whole point of privatization!! ! That's all we really wanted in Iraq - was to privatize the oil industry so we could get our hands on it...but unfortunately for us...it's still sitting in limbo somewhere...so I guess Wall St and the Bankers have had to move on to other wars...
 
 
-1 # bmiluski 2014-05-02 08:59
No, mighead. Those oligarchs were already around. They just weren't so overt.
 
 
+2 # mighead 2014-05-03 04:12
and since Iraq's oil is still in limbo...

We'll just have to frack and drill every state in our own country to gain worldwide domination in Energy...

and to H. with the water, air, land, human health and climate problems...and our environment...a s long as we can supply LNG to Europe so they aren't dependent on Putin...it's the right thing to do!!!???
 
 
+10 # Douglas Jack 2014-05-01 21:23
Mighead & m..., Great explicit, well-referenced article by Parry, drawing upon his decades of research & active involvement.

Patterns emerge from the 5 Eyes: UK, Canada, New Zealand, Aussies & US colonial legacy of unrepentant insatiable genocide, occupation & biosphere destruction worldwide. Notice that elections don't change policy. History books, museums, media, schools etc glorify brutal genocidal myths ad nauseum. Behind every colonial enterprise are moneys typically financed by the British crown & Vatican. Those behind these enterprises were richly rewarded with plunder starting 1st with crusade plunder (gold etc) of the Middle-east & then hitting the jackpot in the America's for gold as well as linear extraction & destruction of every other living & inanimate resource.

Plunder is part of a control game, which some families & institutions have manoeuvred over many centuries & become trillionaires. Difference between Russian subservience to billionaires & US subservience to a couple of trillionaires. There's no financial comparison between Brazil, Russia, China, India & S. Africa BRICS billionaires & financial world dominance by the 5 eyes trillionaires. Trillionaires controlling: US, Canada, UK, N.Zealand & Australia are pushing for WW3, actually believing that they can win regardless of billions of inevitable deaths all based in a Jetsons (cartoon) artificial (colonial) concept of the future. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/relational-economy
 
 
-5 # m... 2014-05-01 19:27


…………………. -- ''Who's the Propagandist: US or RT?'' --………………….

…………………..………………...BOTH..!!……………………………….

...
 
 
+7 # m... 2014-05-01 21:48
For those of you thumbing me down--- ever watch RT…?
I do many many times when I travel. Its shown all over the world. You get much broader exposure to far more numerous and diverse news sources than in the states.
Larry King is on RT now. Lots of good news shows, especially Business and Economics Shows… But in my opinion, some of it is quite often and openly very slanted and talking up a very proRussian-proP utin narrative every bit as much as Corporate News is slanted in the States…
So, I say Both sides are filling the airways, cableways, cyberways and printways with plenty of propaganda to fill an ocean. Both sides are experts in it and you're kidding yourself to think only one side OR the other is engaging in such.
 
 
+11 # ganymede 2014-05-01 20:07
For the past few weeks I've seen nothing to refute the thesis that Putin had no intention to take control of the Crimea, at least for now, and that our machinations in fomenting an uprising against the Ukrainian president gave Putin the pretext for taking control of the Crimea, with its Russian majority. That is a reality that our government has not been able to dispel, and I'm quite sure is what history will record as to what actually happened.

From "Remember the Maine" to the Gulf of Tonkin and WMD's, we have a lot to answer for and history will not forget our bloody warmongering. I love my country but facts are facts and I still hope we will change before we destroy ourselves.
 
 
+12 # Third_stone 2014-05-01 20:36
I admire RT for letting Julian Assange be heard, unlike our own media, who formed a solid bloc to boycott him.
I am sure we have no propaganda networks, only the 6 owners of broadcast stations in the country. Our politics lives by propaganda, pouring out deliberately misleading stories for the purpose of getting control of the people. I am less disappointed than I once was that Kerry was not able to take power after he was elected president.
 
 
+11 # Activista 2014-05-01 20:50
Robert Parry is open and effective critic of USA politics/propag anda re Ukraine crisis.
rt.com is of course "representative " of Russian government - BUT jouranlists there are much more professional than NYT or WSJ.
Parry critics PLEASE provide ONE REAL example of rt.com LIE .. and I give you dozen form US mass media.
 
 
+4 # Activista 2014-05-01 20:55
what is censored in the USA? - read rt.com
rt.com/usa/156272-epa-dow-agent-orange-herbicide/
EPA advances approval of powerful weed killer for Dow’s ‘Agent Orange’ GMO crops ..
who controls our media?
 
 
+5 # geraldom 2014-05-01 23:48
My comment is not exactly on topic, although what I will say has a lot to do with the breaking news that I heard on RT tonight.

I don't want to say that I told you so, but I'm telling you so. When Putin keeps on incessantly telling the world, including the U.S. and NATO and the illegitimate Kiev govt that it has absolutely no intentions of interceding militarily in Ukraine over and over again, constantly reassuring the western powers and the Kiev govt that it would be perfectly safe to attack the eastern and southern cities where the pro-Russian separatists have taken over, what do think the illegitimate govt of Ukraine will do? They invade of course!

The Kiev govt has launched a full scale attack on the city of Slavyansk with ground forces and with helicopters dropping Ukrainian forces outside as well as right into the center of town. There is a full scale war now going on in and around the city of Slavyansk and the anti-Kiev govt forces are no match against the forces attacking them.

So, Activista, please tell me where the Russian forces are right now? Is Putin going to allow the city of Slavyansk to fall into the hands of the illegitimate Ukrainian govt? And. if so, what's to stop the illegal Kiev govt from going on to the next city when Slavyansk falls, and the next, and so forth and so on?

I'd betcha dollars to doughnuts that U.S. and/or NATO special ops are also involved. I kind of wish that Russia would either put up or shut up at this point.
 
 
0 # Activista 2014-05-02 01:35
Harold - there is article how impotentent is Kiev govt -
readersupportednews.org/news-section2/318-66/23427-ukraines-government-has-lost-control-of-east-says-acting-president
and/or
www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/01/vladimir-putin-ukraine-troops-withdrawal-angela-merkel
anti-Kiev govt forces are no match against the forces attacking them?
The most interesting was comment:
No more sanctions on Russia. German Chancellor Angela Merkel is carrying a clear message from Germany's business lobby when she meets President Barack Obama at the White House to discuss the Ukraine crisis
-- Wall Street Journal, May 2 2014
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303948104579535983960826054?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303948104579535983960826054.html
 
 
+3 # mighead 2014-05-02 02:05
From MoonOfAlabama:
http://www.moonofalabama.org/
April 30, 2014

Part 1:

Ukraine: Coup-Government Acknowledges Defeat

Pushed by CIA Director Brennan and Vice President Biden the Ukrainian government twice tried to use its military against federalists in the east. The second time, when it pushed to blockade the city of Slovyansk, the Russian Federation announced a snap maneuvers of its border troops and threatened to intervene. Kiev called back its forces and the federalists occupied state buildings in more cities in east. Some 23 cities and towns in the Donbass region, which delivers a third of Ukraine's GDP, are now in their hands. More will be by tomorrow.

The coup government in Kiev has, for now, given up:

Ukraine’s president warned Wednesday that its police and security forces are “helpless” to subdue unrest in the country’s east, even as pro-Russia militants seized government buildings in another city in the restive region.
“I will be frank: Today, security forces are unable to quickly take the situation in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions under control,” said acting President Oleksandr Turchynov ...
 
 
+3 # mighead 2014-05-02 02:07
From MoonOfAlabama:
April 30, 2014

Ukraine: Coup-Government Acknowledges Defeat

Part 2:

"Western" media call the protesters in the east "separatists" or "pro-Russian". Those concepts are wrong. Unlike in Crimea there is no majority in the east that wants to join the Russian Federation. These people want autonomous states within the Ukraine with locally elected governments and some control over their foreign relations. They want a federal Ukraine with a weak central government that does not interfere in their affairs.

As things proceed now they may well get what they, and Russia, want. With no authority over the east and no reliable security forces the Kiev government can do nothing to prevent that. The U.S. public is against further U.S. intervention in Ukraine and six month before midterm elections public opinion will for once be noticed. There is also no support in Europe for any escalation like further sanctions on Russia.The "west" and its stooges in Kiev have run out of valid instruments to achieve their goals.

The neocon plan to capture the Black Sea harbor Sevastopol for NATO was defeated when Russia snapped Crimea away. The NATO plan to include Ukraine into its containment ring around Russia has failed. The European Union plan to devour what is left of Ukraine's natural richness is in tatters.
 
 
+2 # mighead 2014-05-02 02:09
From MoonOfAlabama:
April 30, 2014

Ukraine: Coup-Government Acknowledges Defeat

Part 3:

Ukraine will become, as an elder statesman (and war-criminal) advised two months ago, a Finlandized federal nation between the east and the west.

But there are still possible spoilers. The neocons and humanitarian interventionist s will fume about their loss and they may still plan some mischief. They could, using their connections with the Ukrainian fascists, try to start a civil war in Ukraine. If only to keep Russia busy and to distract it from other issues.

This is the end of the MoonOfAlabama article...but I should note here that Crimea also has important oil and gas resources in the Black Sea...all of which were part of the original Ukraine takeover...and all of which are now Russia's. So I'm guessing there will soon be some very lucrative Black Sea (especially near Odessa?) oil and gas contracts up for auction in Russia!!!

The Big Three that are 1st in line for them are Exxon, Shell and ENI. They were lined up with Yanukovych before his ouster. According to Bloomberg, the first 2 wells are worth $735M...

That's likely the first $1B of Nuland's $5B; and it's only the first 2 wells.

Shell was visiting Putin at his home a couple of weeks ago.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-10/ukraine-crisis-endangers-exxon-s-black-sea-gas-drilling-energy.html
 
 
+2 # geraldom 2014-05-02 08:36
Activista, believe me, I've heard it all. I've heard the statement by the illegal Kiev govt two days ago when they first made it that it has lost control of the east and southern regions, and I also heard the news yesterday that Germany does not want any more sanctions pressed against Russia. I watch the news very closely, but that has not stopped the illegitimate govt of Ukraine from launching a full-scale attack on the city of Slavyansk.

RT may be somewhat biased in support of Russia, but they are a whole lot more honest and accurate than Fox News and CNN and the rest of America's mainstream media who are towing the U.S. line.

For an illegitimate government in Kiev to act like they have given up on the separatist areas of Ukraine, they're putting on one hell of a show in this massive invasion of the city of Slavyansk.

You can be sure that the U.S. and its western puppet allies in Europe are behind this invasion of Slavyansk, that the U.S. is the so-called orchestra leader here, that Arseniy Yatsenyuk wouldn't make this move without the U.S. right behind him, and you can also bet that if Russia doesn't stop feigning a threat that it doesn't intend to carry out, that is to intercede in eastern and southern Ukraine under the current circumstance, that it could very easily lose eastern and southern Ukraine to Arseniy Yatsenyuk and therefore to the real power-hungry entity behind the scenes, the U.S., the puppet-master.
 
 
+1 # geraldom 2014-05-02 08:46
By the way, Actavista, I know that you are aware of the massive riots taking place in the streets in Kiev itself right now against the current illegitimate government of Ukraine, not in the east or the south, but right there in Kiev, and yet not one mainstream news organization in the United States has covered it or even mentioned it, not even Democracy Now has mentioned it on their program.

I'm curious as to whether or not even the foreign news channels in Europe have even covered it or mentioned it. Arseniy Yatsenyuk has the huevos to send an army against Slavyansk while, at the same time, violent rights are taking place in Kiev against the illegitimate Kiev government.
 
 
0 # geraldom 2014-05-02 16:23
The very last part of the last sentence should read:

".........while, at the same time, violent riots are taking place in Kiev against the illegitimate Kiev government."
 
 
+1 # Activista 2014-05-02 11:27
"RT may be somewhat biased in support of Russia, but they are a whole lot more honest and accurate than Fox News and CNN and the rest of America's mainstream media who are towing the U.S. line."
agree - to get as objective news from Ukraine read rt.com, not USA propaganda.
 
 
+1 # Activista 2014-05-02 11:34
"but that has not stopped the illegitimate govt of Ukraine from launching a full-scale attack on the city of Slavyansk."
two helicopters are down ... six armored carriers are someplace on the road - sad but pathetic. It is interesting to watch photos of "armed" pro Russians ... mostly hunting rifles. Yes - neocons want civil war on the border of Russia - like in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Libya .. but I think that EU is waking up - Putin is a master of judo in politics.
 
 
0 # geraldom 2014-05-02 16:20
Activista, Putin may be a master of judo, both literally and politically, but if he allows the illegitimate government of Ukraine to succeed in taking full control of Slavyansk without so much as lifting a finger to prevent this from happening with the Russian military (and screw the U.S. and NATO if they bellyache about it), then it won't matter how much of a judo expert he is, it will further embolden the illegitimate leadership of the illegal Kiev government to continue on with their crusade of taking back control of other eastern and southern Ukraine cities that have been taken over by pro-Russian Ukrainian citizens who want absolutely nothing to do with the new Kiev government, one city at a time.

It's as simple as that, Activista. Putin will eventually be forced into a position (and very soon) to either put up or shut up, to either send in the Russian military to protect these regions, the eastern and southern areas of Ukraine from aggression by the new Kiev government possibly backed by U.S. and NATO forces, or forever hold his peace and lose all of Ukraine with the exception of Crimea to the United States.
 
 
+2 # Douglas Jack 2014-05-03 14:01
Activista & Harold, I appreciate the 'JUDO' (1889, from Japanese judo, from ju "softness, gentleness" {from Chinese jou "soft, gentle"| + do "way, art," from Chinese tao "way.") analysis which you are bringing.
REFERENDUM
The Crimea state government, activists who protested the illegal violent Kiev putsch & Putin as Crimea peoples' international advocate, were effective by holding Crimea's referendum immediately. As you both know war is over 95% psychological.
INTELLECTUAL COWARDS
One area we can support in this people's movement is by calling out the vacuous 'intellectual-c owards' in our midst who are aligned with financing, arming & training the mercenaries of western destabilization & overthrow in Ukraine & worldwide. We need to make a clear call for public non-violent encounters of the human mind, 'dialectic' ('both-sided') equal-time, recorded & published dialogues.
MIND & HEART JUDO
The judo we're called to is to empower these fearful, psychotic, paranoid institutionaliz ed minds to encounter & embrace truth from its many perspectives. The one-to-one 'debate' (French 'de' = 'undo' + 'bate' = 'the-fight'), which we create on this side of the pond will have far more effect in defusing western-led suicidal calls for nuclear Armageddon, than the victims of our foreign-hell programs can do on their own. We are closer to the heart of the beast. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/structure/both-sides-now-equal-time-recorded-dialogues
 
 
-1 # Saberoff 2014-05-01 21:09
Rick Rozoff (Stop NATO International) radio interview here:

http://www.wortfm.org/?page_id=1811

Find: Thursday, May 1, 2014

Find: A Public Affair - Thursday - 12:00pm

Choose: Podcast; Download; or Play

Interview follows BBC News
 
 
-7 # Patrice Ayme 2014-05-01 22:12
Putin mentioned he wanted to establish "New Russia". Putin condemned the May 25 Ukrainian presidential election and referendum. Putin requested the evacuation of East Ukraine... by the Ukrainian army. Putin refused to condemn the kidnapping of observers of the 57 nations OSCE by his goons. Enough.
 
 
+5 # albertchampion 2014-05-01 23:40
the most astonishing RT broadcast is max keiser's.

contrast his economic analysis with anything you read in the wall street journal, the financial times.

do that, and tell me who you found to be the propagandist?
 
 
+1 # Saberoff 2014-05-02 15:09
Really enjoy(ed) broadcasts. Thanks!
 
 
+3 # albertchampion 2014-05-01 23:42
the osce personnel are all nato officers.

appearing in the ukraine in mufti, they can be considered espionage agents.

in wartime, this would get you the blindfold and the assembly of shooters. or the hangman's noose.

in tudor times, a beheading by the axeman.
 
 
+5 # albertchampion 2014-05-01 23:46
oh, and let us not forget that it was the usa and nato that orchestrated a coup d'etat in the ukraine. replacing an elected government with a junta.

the usa and its allies have performed that villainy in so many countries over the decades. and few usa allies objected.

i like it when someone finally has the cojones to say NO. don't you?
 
 
+5 # mighead 2014-05-01 23:54
A place to find news - especially on Syria and Ukraine - that isn't covered anywhere else:

www.moonofalabama.org

For interesting articles on Ukraine - check the archives starting around Feb 20. They also usually cover news on RT: Russia Today (Voice of Russia) as well as other international media including the BBC.

They often correct US propaganda stories such as Merkel telling Obama that Putin was "in another world" - where what Merkel actually said was that "Putin had a different view" than Obama. McClatchy said the same thing.

They have a very interesting Mar 1 article on a Turkish Intelligence planned coup on Crimea that was synchronized with the Kiev coup.

Apparently it was stopped by Russian Intelligence. That's the reason Russia took over the airports in Crimea; Turkish Intelligence had troops flying in from Istanbul to take over Sevastopol.

Here's a link to that article:
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2014/03/the-crimean-anti-coup-move.html#more

They also have very interesting coverage on Syria.

It's their view that NATO wanted the Russian Naval Base in Crimea specifically because Russia was using it to supply and defend Syria.
 
 
+7 # jdd 2014-05-02 05:59
This counrty, led by its great president, so resolutely fought fascism in alliance with the Soviet Union 70 years ago. It is so disturbing that today we are backing a neo-Nazi regime. A new moral low, a terrbile decline which began with the assassination of our last real president.
 
 
-4 # bmiluski 2014-05-02 09:02
Personally, I hope Putin's invasion of the Ukraine works. Because Ukraine's financial woes along with the need for a military presence in the Ukraine to keep insurrection under control will be a big stone around his neck and that will drag him and his government down.
 
 
0 # Activista 2014-05-02 11:39
Personally, I hope NATO invasion of the Ukraine works. Because Ukraine's financial woes along with the need for a military presence in the Ukraine to keep insurrection under control will be a big stone around NATO neck and that will drag it and USA government down.
 
 
0 # Douglas Jack 2014-05-04 22:06
bmilusky & Activista, You can both be sure that before this recent CIA surrogate invasion of Ukraine by Nuland's NED, PNAC destabilization moneys, they calculate / evaluate resources such as oil, gas & other linear extractive resources for exploitation & export under contracts of servitude (ie foreign debt) trade. They carefully estimate costs & perceived benefits of extractables with the cost of war being paid by the US peoples & the costs of death & destruction (US externalities) by Ukrainians. Those extractables are worth something to the US regardless of the Ukrainian death toll.

The colonial west's false-'capitali sts' (Latin 'cap' = 'head' = 'wisdom') are never interested in human intelligence, renewable living biosphere resources or the value of life. Both the failed capitalist west & failed socialist east need to understand the common ancient 'indigenous' (Latin 'self-generatin g') roots of collective intelligence. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/relational-economy/8-economic-democracy
 
 
+4 # mighead 2014-05-03 05:44
My total sympathies go out to the people of Ukraine here...

They do not deserve to be 'eviscerated' by the IMF and the West...

The IMF is apparently holding off the worst news until after the May 25 elections...the plea to them was to 'allow the country to stabilize'...

I wouldn't have done this to my worst enemy!!!
 
 
+4 # RMDC 2014-05-03 09:52
Good pointgs mighead. The IMF's history shows exactly what it will do. Greece is the most recent example -- a transfer of billions of dollars from Greece to banks in Western Europe and the US.

Ukraine is about to be looted.

The work of the IMF is to steal from the poor of the world for the rich of the world. Lots of people who have followed the IMF for many years know this, but the majority don't.
 
 
+4 # RMDC 2014-05-03 09:57
Let's see -- Kerry standing along side of RT and we are asked which one is the liar and which one tells the truth?

Kerry gets the award - He is the LIAR and the king of liars.
 
 
0 # PrinceDarrell 2014-05-03 13:57
Ukraine was being looted before the "ouster" which, honestly, it would be difficult to believe that the US had no knowledge of. As to whether or not Putin is calling the shots on the other side, of course he is. Those "protestors" pulled out anti aircraft missiles and shot down not one but two helicopters. In Crimea that vote was obviously staged... the numbers were too good.. nobody does that well.
If there was a legitimate attempt to wrestle power from yet another awful government in the Ukraine, wouldn't the move be to drum up support for a different candidate in the next set of elections... but no, force is being applied, by Russian special forces. RT does represent Russian viewpoints.. like ours represents our oligarchs' narrow view points, and the differenc between them is wide.
 
 
+2 # mighead 2014-05-03 15:33
Hate to keep quoting Moon Of Alabama...

but...

Here's their take on Kiev's 3rd attempt on rebels in Slovyansk on May 2:

"This morning a third "anti-terror" campaign was launched when some Ukrainian security forces encircled and attempted to storm the city of Slovyansk...

This attempt soon ran into problems.

Civilians blocked or held up troop movements. But supported by helicopters some troops managed to capture a few outlying road barricades. Then at least two of the helicopters were shot down by MANPADs. It was not expected that the armed federalists had such weapons ready but it is also not very astonishing.

When the Soviet Union was dissolved Ukraine ended up with a fully equipped force of some 700,000 men. Today, 23 years later, the Ukrainian military force has some 70,000 men. What happened to all the equipment? Most of it was sold off to third countries in shady deals but a lot was just taken away or sold by corrupt officers to anyone who would pay a decent price. I would therefore not be surprised to see more higher level weapons in the hands of the federalists who include some veterans of the Soviet campaign in Afghanistan and other well trained former soldiers and police forces."
http://www.moonofalabama.org/

Me: the total population of Ukraine is almost 46M...about 1/3rd the size of Russia. From a previous army of 700,000 and 70,000 now - it seems reasonable that there are probably a LOT of people in Ukraine that can use advanced arms.
 
 
+2 # Activista 2014-05-03 21:36
Thanks - excellent information ..
there are probably a LOT of people in Ukraine that can use advanced arms...
= high probability of civil war
 
 
+1 # mighead 2014-05-04 05:02
Agree...think civil war is inevitable...
especially with us egging Kiev on...
and Kiev taking a hard line...
and moving the Neo-Nazi 'storm troopers' into their army...not to mention giving them 4 depts. in the Kiev government!!!

I don't see anybody either standing down or willing to negotiate...

IMO: the right thing to do here is to go with a 'federalist' de-centralized government...th ere are just too many differing factions to be able to govern any other way...

but I doubt the US, EU and NATO see it that way!!! and will keep on pushing until they either get a Civil War...or a Putin moving troops across the border...or both...

can't believe we're doing this...utterly incredibly STUPID!!! FOR WHAT???!!! To teach Putin not to interfere with our moves in Syria and Iran???!!!

Sorry to say this...but I think our WH-StateDept-CI A-NSA and related agencies are totally NUTS here!!!

keep thinking I'm watching Dr. Strangelove here and it's not real!!!

But unfortunately it IS real!!!
 
 
0 # barbaratodish 2014-05-04 08:04
All around the world there is maxi "false flag propaganda", just as there is mini "false flag propagande," in families, in neighorhoods, etc. There are so many constant, but denied or overlooked provocations, lies etc., made about others, even within families. There are family members who are targeted if they hesitate or refuse to "go along, to get along"!. Just as developing nations are targeted as if they were the "black sheep" of the "family of man".The 1%, the Government, or heads of corporations, or heads of families, are all alike: BULLIES! They are bullies that PERFORM AS IF they are "paternalistic" (HA!) Just try making any "paternalistic" identity "uncomfortable" !"Paternalistic " emotional defensiveness too often results in declared as well as undeclared war, and outright physical offensiveness replaces consciousness from the macro to the micro level. Let's ALL opt out of all governments. Let's all opt out of "the grid" and become "kings and queens" to our self sovereignty and to our sovereign consciousness!
http://www.amazon.com/Barbara-Todish/e/B008CCIQ5E
 

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