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Anders writes: "In support of this harmful bill, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) explained that the bill will 'basically say in law for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield' and people can be imprisoned without charge or trial 'American citizen or not.' Another supporter, Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-NH) also declared that the bill is needed because 'America is part of the battlefield.'"

A razor-wire fence at Guantanamo, where 'enemy combatants' are being held indefinitely. (photo: Brennan Linsley/Reuters)
A razor-wire fence at Guantanamo, where 'enemy combatants' are being held indefinitely. (photo: Brennan Linsley/Reuters)



Senate Bill: America Is Now Part of the Battlefield

By Chris Anders, ACLU

26 November 11

 

Quietly, the Senate is pushing through a bill that would radically redefine the extrajudicial powers of the military and, apparently, allow for the indefinite detention of US citizens. -- JPS/RSN

 

Senators demand the military lock up American Citizens in a "Battlefield" they define as being right outside your window.

hile nearly all Americans head to family and friends to celebrate Thanksgiving, the Senate is gearing up for a vote on Monday or Tuesday that goes to the very heart of who we are as Americans. The Senate will be voting on a bill that will direct American military resources not at an enemy shooting at our military in a war zone, but at American citizens and other civilians far from any battlefield - even people in the United States itself.

Senators need to hear from you, on whether you think your front yard is part of a "battlefield" and if any president can send the military anywhere in the world to imprison civilians without charge or trial.

The Senate is going to vote on whether Congress will give this president - and every future president - the power to order the military to pick up and imprison without charge or trial civilians anywhere in the world. Even Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) raised his concerns about the NDAA detention provisions during last night's Republican debate. The power is so broad that even US citizens could be swept up by the military and the military could be used far from any battlefield, even within the United States itself.

The worldwide indefinite detention without charge or trial provision is in S. 1867, the National Defense Authorization Act bill, which will be on the Senate floor on Monday. The bill was drafted in secret by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI) and John McCain (R-AZ) and passed in a closed-door committee meeting, without even a single hearing.

I know it sounds incredible. New powers to use the military worldwide, even within the United States? Hasn't anyone told the Senate that Osama bin Laden is dead, that the president is pulling all of the combat troops out of Iraq and trying to figure out how to get combat troops out of Afghanistan too? And American citizens and people picked up on American or Canadian or British streets being sent to military prisons indefinitely without even being charged with a crime. Really? Does anyone think this is a good idea? And why now?

The answer on why now is nothing more than election season politics. The White House, the Secretary of Defense, and the Attorney General have all said that the indefinite detention provisions in the National Defense Authorization Act are harmful and counterproductive. The White House has even threatened a veto. But Senate politics has propelled this bad legislation to the Senate floor.

But there is a way to stop this dangerous legislation. Sen. Mark Udall (D-CO) is offering the Udall Amendment that will delete the harmful provisions and replace them with a requirement for an orderly Congressional review of detention power. The Udall Amendment will make sure that the bill matches up with American values.

In support of this harmful bill, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) explained that the bill will "basically say in law for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield" and people can be imprisoned without charge or trial "American citizen or not." Another supporter, Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-NH) also declared that the bill is needed because "America is part of the battlefield."

The solution is the Udall Amendment; a way for the Senate to say no to indefinite detention without charge or trial anywhere in the world where any president decides to use the military. Instead of simply going along with a bill that was drafted in secret and is being jammed through the Senate, the Udall Amendment deletes the provisions and sets up an orderly review of detention power. It tries to take the politics out and put American values back in.

In response to proponents of the indefinite detention legislation who contend that the bill "applies to American citizens and designates the world as the battlefield," and that the "heart of the issue is whether or not the United States is part of the battlefield," Sen. Udall disagrees, and says that we can win this fight without worldwide war and worldwide indefinite detention.

The senators pushing the indefinite detention proposal have made their goals very clear that they want an okay for a worldwide military battlefield, that even extends to your hometown. That is an extreme position that will forever change our country.

Now is the time to stop this bad idea. Please urge your senators to vote YES on the Udall Amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act.

 

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+139 # Barbara K 2011-11-26 13:34
We MUST support the Udall Amendment in the Senate to stop this Greedy Old Pig movement to make our country a "battlefield" now. Geez, just when we think they can't get any more stupid, they do.

NEVER VOTE REPUBLICAN !!

You just can't fix stupid!
 
 
+82 # CTPatriot 2011-11-26 14:30
It's really way past time that you remove that annoying tag line of yours. In case you didn't notice, Dick Durbin, a Democrat, is co-sponsor of the bill. "Never vote Republican" implies that you should always vote for a Democrat. In most cases, now, you can't vote for either. Which means we are F'd.
 
 
+33 # Glen 2011-11-26 17:25
Thank you, CTP. I have mentioned that myself to no avail. Folks just can't accept the sold out congress and senate, and that there is no longer two parties.
 
 
+22 # dorianb@fuse.net 2011-11-26 18:22
CT Patriot: You are right about that annoying tag and about our broken governemnt on BOTH sides. It is so obvious, why can't people see this?
We need a third party; don't you think?
 
 
+35 # readerz 2011-11-26 20:41
Not a third party as long as the Electoral College exists. What we need is new rules (at least get rid of the 60 vote rules in the Senate), and also Constitutional Amendments to stop the Electoral College in every state at the same time, and also winner-take-all in every state. The only thing that third-party does with the Electoral College is take away votes from whichever Party most resembles the third party. Therefore, Perot took away votes from Repubs, and Green Party took away votes from Gore (kinda ironic). That being said, 2/3 of my family voted Green in that election, but I voted for Gore in the vain hope that the vote wasn't totally engineered... it was 2000, and not enough was known about the vote fixing in Ohio yet. But get rid of Electoral College, give real one-person one-vote, stop making elderly produce I.D. when they can't get a birth certificate from states that didn't have them, and things might actually work... a little. And then I will also vote Green or whatever seems progressive.
 
 
+1 # Texas Aggie 2011-11-27 17:09
Yeah, that's right. We need a third party. It worked so well when Gore lost because of Nader thereby giving us Iraq, the Bush deficit, and the present economic situation. And don't tell me that it was the SC that was responsible. If Nader hadn't been on the ballot, it wouldn't have been close enough to even involve a recount.
 
 
+18 # GeeRob 2011-11-26 20:43
The co-sponsor is Carl Levin, not Dick Durbin.
 
 
+6 # Regina 2011-11-26 22:37
Then my diatribe against Durbin (above) applies to Levin.
 
 
+11 # LessSaid 2011-11-26 21:46
Quoting CTPatriot:
It's really way past time that you remove that annoying tag line of yours. In case you didn't notice, Dick Durbin, a Democrat, is co-sponsor of the bill. "Never vote Republican" implies that you should always vote for a Democrat. In most cases, now, you can't vote for either. Which means we are F'd.


This bill was drafted in secret by two Republicans and it's not much chance it will past. However, anything is possible that why we all contact out respective representative and let them know, that right vote is "NO'.

Therefore, I don't think it’s time to remove the tag 'NEVER VOTE REPUBLICAN!'

Also, 'never vote republican' don't mean you’re only option is to always vote for a Democrat.
 
 
+13 # mwd870 2011-11-27 06:17
Agree completely. Never Vote Repubican is especially true in 2012.

With so many issues facing our country, the last thing to waste time on is worrying about whether someone wants to express a perfectly legitimate view at the end of her comments. wtf? Or I could say "get a life."
 
 
+3 # Barbara K 2011-11-27 13:50
We cannot stress enough how important it is to never vote republican, especially next election. We have everything to lose and nothing to gain if they take over even more than they have. We must be sure to vote this election. We are in this mess because too many sat on their hands last year. It is easy to pick out the Republibaggers on here, isn't it? They are of the same ones who don't even want us to vote at all, and think they are the only ones with the Freedom of Speech. Selfish lizards.

NEVER VOTE REPUBLICAN !!
 
 
+5 # Regina 2011-11-26 22:35
Some weak-bellied Democrats need to be reeducated. Durbin is getting long in the tooth and short in the cranium.
 
 
+15 # Barbara K 2011-11-27 05:42
Do you really want a country run by the Koch Brothers, Karl Rove, and the Republibaggers? That is what you'll get, along with the demise of SS, Medicare, and Medicaid, Union Rights. The only reason I think you would is if you are a republibagger yourself?

NEVER VOTE REPUBLICAN !!
 
 
+4 # Texas Aggie 2011-11-27 17:05
Go ahead and vote republican if that is what you want to do, but don't expect any sympathy when you get royally screwed by the people you voted for.

That you seem to think that not voting for republicans means voting for Democrats indicates you aren't thinking.
 
 
+2 # Magars 2011-11-28 19:47
Quoting CTPatriot:
It's really way past time that you remove that annoying tag line of yours. In case you didn't notice, Dick Durbin, a Democrat, is co-sponsor of the bill. "Never vote Republican" implies that you should always vote for a Democrat. In most cases, now, you can't vote for either. Which means we are F'd.

That's right! Did you read the article about the military in our universities.An d this is happening under this administration. Time to move forward and think wider,XXI Century way.
 
 
+150 # michelle 2011-11-26 14:47
There should not be an amendment, they should scrap the entire bill. What nonsense to compromise on something this dangerous. I'm outraged.
 
 
+58 # Reductio Ad Absurdum 2011-11-26 15:32
EXACTLY what I thought the moment I read it. And this is from the supposedly "more cautious, more deliberative" Senate.
 
 
+41 # Merschrod 2011-11-26 16:53
I agree Scrap the whole nonsense and start to roll back the overreach anywhere. No reason for indefinite detention - a trial must be speeding and just.
 
 
+11 # Bluesguy 2011-11-27 09:49
Quoting michelle:
There should not be an amendment, they should scrap the entire bill. What nonsense to compromise on something this dangerous. I'm outraged.

Exactly; we must: call your senators and rep's also, for good measure-althoug h we know how the House (of ill repute) vote will go.
I will tell Boxer and BlumStein/Feins tein (her hubby is a BIG defense AIPAC guy, of course) not only to stop this Nazi bill, but to come back with the opposite kind of bill, a reassertion of our Bill of Rights, maybe ?? what say ye ??
M, I am thinking I'll bring The Secret Life of Nature, the Tao of Physics; perhaps we may decide that becoming the book will be necessary, or more effective a la Fahrenheit 451.
James Howard Kunstler-the Long Emergency, and World Made by hand-possible manuals for the coming darkness
I just hope my darling granddaughter has no reason to curse the names of these "public servants."
As was uttered in the Seven Samurai=Brace up !!!
"Decay is inherent in all compounded things...Strive on with diligence" Buddha's last advice.
 
 
+14 # Bluesguy 2011-11-27 10:24
Quoting michelle:
There should not be an amendment, they should scrap the entire bill. What nonsense to compromise on something this dangerous. I'm outraged.

ANY "legislator" even considering this dangerous bill is shameful; anyone supporting it is treasonous, period.
"Watch the Nazis run your town..." FZ
 
 
+9 # Smiley 2011-11-27 18:15
I totally agree! Why pass any of it? It scares the Hell out of me. Only a traitor to everything our country stands for would support this bill in any form.
 
 
0 # Magars 2011-11-29 06:03
Quoting michelle:
There should not be an amendment, they should scrap the entire bill. What nonsense to compromise on something this dangerous. I'm outraged.

That's right,but this is the way that our legislators play politics,from both parties Democrats and Republicans.
 
 
+16 # rhp 2011-11-26 14:56
I'm starting to get that "never vote republican" is a tag line, considering this bill has rep and dem sponsors!
 
 
+20 # LessSaid 2011-11-26 21:57
Yes, but, only Democrats have voiced any opposition to the Bill at all, no Republicans (that I can find).
 
 
+4 # Magars 2011-11-28 08:33
Quoting rhp:
I'm starting to get that "never vote republican" is a tag line, considering this bill has rep and dem sponsors!

THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT!
 
 
+48 # RussellB 2011-11-26 15:37
Didn't you read this carefully. It was put through by a committee controlled by the Democrats and McCain is supposed to be a "moderate" Republican. When are people in this country going to begin to understand the true nature of our political system. NEVER VOTE REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT! It's time for a Third party and stop complaining about Ralph Nader!
 
 
+20 # Magars 2011-11-26 16:52
Quoting rhp:
I'm starting to get that "never vote republican" is a tag line, considering this bill has re[quote name="RussellB"]Didn't you read this carefully. It was put through by a committee controlled by the Democrats and McCain is supposed to be a "moderate" Republican. When are people in this country going to begin to understand the true nature of our political system. NEVER VOTE REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT! It's time for a Third party and stop complaining about Ralph Nader!

Exactly!!! Sad but is the truth,it is time to start thinking according to the reality and forget about XX Century slogan..
 
 
+8 # dorianb@fuse.net 2011-11-26 18:24
RussellB: How do we start a third party and get enough support prior to 2012 election?
 
 
+7 # readerz 2011-11-26 20:45
You know, folks, he has a point: but we are talking long-term here. We must do what we can now, throw out the Democrats that are starting to sound Republican, get a Constitutional Amendment to stop the Electoral College, and also develop a strong Third Party. It will work, but it has to start somewhere, and we can start it. I had no hope before the "Occupy" movement, but I think it could happen, maybe in my lifetime. (I'm not young, so people better get this done within 20 years.)
 
 
+1 # AMLLLLL 2011-11-27 14:12
the only successful way to run a third party is if the Tbaggers run someone. That would even the field on the left to run a progressive who won't be bought.
 
 
+3 # Texas Aggie 2011-11-27 17:16
A third party hasn't had any influence to speak of since before Teddy Roosevelt. All that they have done is draw off votes from whichever party was closer to them. Witness Reagan/Anderson , Clinton/Perot, Bush/Nader.

The Tea Party got what it wanted without starting a third party. They did it by sending their people into primaries, and that has been the only successful political strategy in the last couple centuries for changing things at the Federal level. If we want to actually get our people into Congress, we need to have them run in the primaries and then support them.
 
 
+37 # Magars 2011-11-26 16:36
Will be a good idea,if you check how members of Congress vote daily. This bill have a lot of supporters from Democratic Party. Again ,no because they are Democrats they are Progressive. Check how many Democrats voted for P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act, (only 2 voted No) All of them knew that the American citizens will believe that the name of the act has something to do with patriotism . And because of this act, Blackwater is allowed to act without consequence , the CIA has secret jails overseas where they torture people,because is out of American jurisdiction, and any house in America can be searched without warrant. So, don't feel so confident with democratic vote in Congress. People should check on them too.Check Mr. Anders work in Guantanamo on torture,or as human right observer at military commision.Check ACLU website and you'll find out how a lot of Democrats voted in the past and what they said.
 
 
+18 # futhark 2011-11-26 17:24
Anybody other than me going to credit Rep. Dr. Ron Paul with speaking out and voting against the PATRIOT Act, simply because he calls himself a Republican? Don't be so certain that every politician with a "D" after his or her name represents your best interests, your rights, or Constitutional processes.
 
 
+6 # Magars 2011-11-26 19:20
Quoting Barbara K:
We MUST support the Udall Amendment in the Senate to stop this Greedy Old Pig movement to make our country a "battlefield" now. Geez, just when we think they can't get any more stupid, they do.

NEVER VOTE REPUBLICAN !!

You just can't fix stupid!


You want to check President Obama's reaction when OWS protestors wanted to call his attention, WATCH YOU TUBE "CHECK MIC" IN NEW HAMPSHIRE. SERIOUS PROBLEMS DEMAND SERIOUS ACTION AND THESE ACTIONS ARE NOT IN OBAMA'S AGENDA. SUPPORTING OWS AND ACCEPTING OBAMA'S APPROACH ARE TWO INCOHERENT THINGS.
 
 
+9 # Barbara K 2011-11-27 06:22
I watched the speech as this Mic Check happened and I thought he handled it better than anyone else has, especially the likes of Michelle Bauchman. He has never spoken against the OWS. Are you one who wants a Koch, Rove, Republibagger-r un country? That's the other choice. Third party has no chance and just takes away votes from the candidate you may want.
 
 
+5 # Magars 2011-11-27 10:52
It is not about "handled better or worst,is about use the opportunity to take side and expose his ideas about what he is planning to do in order to protect the 99%. Accepting that we have to live the rest of our lifes under two parties is pessimism. United State of America always criticize dictatorships around the world because they are incapable to offer options to their citizens. Dictators always repeat the frase: Or you are with me or against me,no alternative option, and believe me I know what that means! Because I say Obama betrayed his own promises ,that doesn't mean the Tea Party has any chance.People win intellectual battles with facts no with offenses. To see that young generations can change the status quo,one has to be open minded.OWS could be the new beginning for a new political spectrum ,but again,to see it one need to be open minded. Your pessimistic idea about third party is a consequence of years of political manipulation of both party,and as you said it has no chance because the way both parties worked everything out.
If we all accept,as I'm sure you do ,the incredible OWS Movement,we all can start believing in more than a two parties and then all candidates should start working harder to earn people's trust. Two years ago nobody could imagine OWS! And this, Dear Ms. K could be the change we need.
 
 
+3 # propsguy 2011-11-26 19:38
indeed, i sometimes want to agree with your comments but i can't because of your tag line "never vote republican" which i cannot agree with across the board. both parties are completely and hopelessly corrupt. "never vote" might be better
 
 
+14 # Regina 2011-11-26 22:43
Sometimes we have to vote for the lesser evil, just to stave off the greater evil.. The Republican Party as presently constituted, with its "Tea Party" cancerous growth, is the greater evil. We progressives wouldn't look good with our noses cut off to spite our faces. Yes, it's NEVER VOTE REPUBLICAN across the board. The next step is to get better Democrats.
 
 
+9 # NanFan 2011-11-27 08:13
To never vote at all is ceding power we, the people, have in our form of democracy, battered as it is by overt, corrupt, conspicuous capitalism.

If we begin to just not vote, to just not come up with changes that will put better candidates in office who will actually enact the changes we are fighting for (even if for the short time we have to live with those who are "less worse")...well. ..then we'll never, EVER win the revolution. And that would be astoundingly devastating. Why?

Because it's not just the US, it's the entire world.
 
 
+23 # maddave 2011-11-27 00:22
Quoting Barbara K:
We MUST . . . stop this Greedy Old Pig movement to make our country a "battlefield" now. . . . You just can't fix stupid!


Let's see. Over ten years ago 19 men, known at the time to the CIA & to a lesser extent by the FBI, attacked the WTC & killed 3,000 Americans citizens & friends. Subsequently, we attacked "them" and - directly or indirectly destroyed the Iraqi infrastructure & culture; killed or caused to be killed 1 millon Iraqis; wounded three times that number;displace d another three million; and pissed away the lives of 4,000 Americans & (when its al over) a total of about $10 trillion US dollars . . .

Meanwhile there have been no further serious attacks here in the USA.

And let's not forget the HSA and our Patriot Acts I & II, as modified & secretly interpreted by the DOJ. (The secret is from We The People, by the way!)

I maintain that foreign terrorists don't need to attack us. Why would they even want to while we are doing such a good job of dismantling our Constitution all by ourselves?
 
 
+3 # arachneabroad 2011-11-27 19:29
At this point, outrage and scorn are not enough. We need to forward this piece to every online news site we can and demand that they make this front page. The vote is on Monday. Short of publicizing this militaristic legislation, yes, support the Udall Amendment.
 
 
0 # boudreaux 2011-11-28 05:07
Quoting Barbara K:
We MUST support the Udall Amendment in the Senate to stop this Greedy Old Pig movement to make our country a "battlefield" now. Geez, just when we think they can't get any more stupid, they do.

NEVER VOTE REPUBLICAN !!

You just can't fix stupid!



And when you'e born dumb, you're gonna die dumb.....
 
 
+114 # dfvboulder 2011-11-26 13:49
Isn't that special? An indefinite war, during which American citizens can be held without due process.

Why not just repeal the Bill of Rights?
 
 
+10 # KittatinyHawk 2011-11-26 19:40
They will soon enough...
 
 
+17 # mtravis 2011-11-26 20:39
I guess many didn't notice that the Bill of Rights was repealed with the Patriot Act. No longer does habeus corpus exist. Obama renewed the Patriot Act while "out of town" in Paris a few months ago.
 
 
+6 # heraldmage 2011-11-27 00:10
The GOP Congress reauthorized the Patriot Act. The President is just a rubber stamp it, that's all he can do at this point, until 2012 when we get rid of with few exceptions like Kucinich every member of the House & 1/3 the Senate replacing them with 99% signed on candidates.
 
 
-1 # Barbara K 2011-11-27 14:05
Absolutely!! He doesn't run the country, he is only a part of it. The Congress makes and passes the laws and Obama can sign only what makes it to his desk, or not. I'm sure he will Veto this if it makes it to his desk. We need to call on the SENATE, not representatives to stop this Bill. All the Rs in the House will vote for it, where they have the majority. The Senators are our only chance to get it stopped. This Bill is in the Senate. We need to rid ourselves of all the republibaggers and the blue dogs if we ever want to get America going again. Obama is being blocked at every thing he tries to do. Get rid of the blockade and see how soon we come back to life in this country.
 
 
+3 # NOMINAE 2011-11-27 00:15
Quoting dfvboulder:
Isn't that special? An indefinite war, during which American citizens can be held without due process.

Why not just repeal the Bill of Rights?


Take cheer, sir, that's right around the corner ! It is effectively null and void now. Ask OWS Oakland, Davis, NY, etc.
 
 
0 # barbh 2011-11-28 19:27
It doesn't cover American citizens, despite what this article says. Doesn't mean I like it, I just like to be accurate as possible and not spread second-hand rumors.
 
 
+89 # pernsey 2011-11-26 13:56
I hope Obama isnt ramping up to sign this crap into law!
 
 
+15 # Susan W 2011-11-26 16:41
Since it is going to be crammed into the huge defense bill he will sign it because there is no way to selectively delete it.

Of course he would sign it anyway even if it was separate since he has taken to heart the mantle of Chief of the Empire and already feels he has the power to order and carry out executions whenever he wants to. With this bill he has one more flimsy rationale to use as political cover for his "manly" stance against "terrorists".
 
 
+89 # Mouna 2011-11-26 14:01
OMG! The WHOLE WORLD A BATTLEFIELD? John McCain? Carl Levin? Indefinite detention? Insanity? National Defence? From our own military? No trial? Politics? Action?

OCCUPY LIFE! NOW!
 
 
+39 # mike/ 2011-11-26 14:02
another step closer to Margaret Atwood's "The Handmaid's Tale" coming into reality...
 
 
+20 # squawcraw 2011-11-26 14:14
Here is a synopsis of SECTION 2031 of the bill in question:
It “affirms ... the authority of the President ... to detain covered persons (persons “who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the [9/11] attacks, or harbored those responsible” OR persons who were “a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces … including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces.”)pendin g disposition under the law of war.” Disposition Under Law of War may include:
(1) Detention under the law of war without trial until the end of the hostilities.
(2) Trial under chapter 47A of title 10, United States Code.
(3) Transfer for trial by an alternative court or tribunal having jurisdiction.
(4) Transfer to the custody or control of … any other foreign country, or any … foreign entity.
(d) Construction- Nothing in this section is intended to limit or expand the authority of the President or the scope of the Authorization for Use of Military Force.
(e) Requirement for Briefings of Congress- The Secretary of Defense shall regularly brief Congress regarding the application of the authority described in this section, including the organizations, entities, and individuals considered to be `covered persons' for purposes of subsection (b)(2)."
 
 
+10 # KittatinyHawk 2011-11-26 19:42
End of hostilities is like saying whne there are no more wars...never happen with these war mongers
 
 
+4 # squawcraw 2011-11-27 01:25
That's ONE of the problems with how this Section is written....
 
 
+3 # 666 2011-11-28 04:56
so let's count:
1) post-9/11 Bush/Cheney create the possibility of mass detention camps in the US
2) the MCA strikes habeus corpus
3) the anti-conspiracy theory folks deny such "detention camps" could exist because of constitutional protections
4) 2011-12 1st & 4th amendments effectively destroyed in police crackdowns as protesters declare "class WAR"
5) this bill re-defines scope of military powers and empowers indefinite detention (e.g. creates the legal mechanism to fill those non-existing camps)
6) [pending, dec 2011, perhaps around Christmas] Obama signs bill passed largely in secret by both houses
7) [pending, 2012?] the Occupy movement is re-defined as a terrorist organization; its leaders and supporters are rounded up and sent to indefinite detention until the class war is over. Fox news cheers and Obama continues to rationalize
 
 
+2 # in deo veritas 2011-11-29 18:15
You cannot rationalize or compromise with evil without becoming part of it and being destroyed with it. Too bad for our country that there are few if any of our so-called leaders (better defined as Judas Goats) who realize this.
 
 
+93 # ejf3 2011-11-26 14:18
Don't they see they are just accelerating the revolution? I know I'm more revolted by these idiots than I was before I read this crap. And don't think for a moment that they aren't ready to use this to target those freedom fighters on the Occupy homeland battlefields! This kind of crap is how things got started by those other fascists in Germany just a few decades ago. Frighten people enough and they'll give away all their freedoms and rights just to feel safe. If we don't stop them NOW, in a short time this kind of crap will seem mild.
 
 
+45 # CTPatriot 2011-11-26 15:34
Exactly! It wouldn't surprise me at all if this wasn't intended as a preemptive strike against the revolution that they are making more inevitable with each passing day.
 
 
+65 # AlWight 2011-11-26 14:29
We have the disrespect of most of the world now. Why are we trying to make it worse. The Senators who vote for this are idiots.
 
 
+12 # heraldmage 2011-11-27 00:23
Any Senator who votes for this should be recalled at the very least given notice to get his bags packed send out his resume and get ready to join the ranks of the unemployed because we the people will be firing them in Nov 2012 if not sooner.
 
 
+7 # Capn Canard 2011-11-27 07:23
if only...
 
 
+6 # Barbara K 2011-11-27 12:37
I agree and wish we could recall them. However, we cannot recall US Congressmen, only State congressmen.
 
 
+1 # in deo veritas 2011-11-29 18:17
Not idiots but traitors.
 
 
+22 # WLawpsh 2011-11-26 14:35
The War Powers Act of 1973 already purports to give the President the jurisdiction to make war against everyone everywhere if he feels foreign policy or the economy is threatened. All he does is declare an emergency as President and then as Commander in Chief order the military to make preemptive war. The Constitution's defence clauses that give the jurisdiction to declare war exclusively to Congress only if the US has been invaded have been repealed even though the mandatory amendment clause has not been complies with. Thus has the anti-imperial Constitution been replaced as the supreme Law by the federal imperial legislation. The wind up your skirts is too late by many years. for regardless what happens to this bill the world is in the age of American empire. Yet empire is the great evil decried by the Declaration of Independence. And the reason constitutional democracy is dead while unconstitutiona l empire thrives is that the Supreme Court refuses to do its sworn duty of office to uphold the Constitution by means of judicial review of just such imperial legislation. Marbury v. Madison (1803). Witness the obstruction and ignoring of the the Mahican and Mi'kmaq Tribes' court case to prevent genocide by means of judicial review of the federal imperial statutes. See, website "Might Is Not Right" at http://mightisnotright.org/.
 
 
+16 # futhark 2011-11-26 16:26
I think there are logical and historical rationales that the Framers explicitly designated the Legislative branch as the one responsible for declaring war, which is a tremendous ethical, financial, and logistical burden on the people. In European countries the royal executives usually made the decisions about war and peace and the populace just had to sacrifice their money and their children to satisfy the whims of the king. America was supposed to be an experiment in a new kind of political arrangement, with the status of sovereignty resting with the people and the people deciding the form of government and the officers that would best serve their needs. Giving the executive branch the war-making power is a betrayal of the ongoing American Revolution and a reversion into feudalism.

We need to elect executives and legislators who will hold true to their Constitutional duties and honor the pledges they have made to the people to adhere to their Constitutional roles. We also need a Supreme Court that will check the tendencies of executives to overreach their Constitutional powers.
 
 
+1 # in deo veritas 2011-11-29 18:25
The War Powers Act is another of Nixon's legacies with everyone from both parties who supported it as accomplices. We have held our noses and closed our minds, eyes and ears so the ultimate blame should fall upon the general public and not just political parties or individuals. We have met the enemy and he is US! Check out the stats on the percentage of eligible voters actually voting over the past half century and it is obvious that millions just haven't given a damn what happens to the country.
 
 
+52 # CTPatriot 2011-11-26 14:36
Didn't we used to have something called Posse Comitatus, which forbid US troops from being deployed on US soil for anything other than disaster relief?

Oh wait, I seem to recall Bush getting rid of it, which apparently set the stage for this bill to be legal. No doubt it's all a part of the plan. And some Democrats are in on it too (yes, that's you, Dick Durbin).
 
 
+6 # GeeRob 2011-11-26 20:45
Get the perp's name right! It's Carl Levin, NOT Dick Durbin.
 
 
+8 # mwd870 2011-11-27 06:42
I can't imagine Dick Durbin sponsoring a bill like this. I just sent an email to Carl Levin because he obviously should be in the Republican Party.
 
 
+75 # Patch 2011-11-26 14:36
The reason this bill is coming up now is to curtail the Occupy movement. With a bill like this every Occupier can be labeled a terrorist at the will of the Government.

Twelve years ago I had a conversation with a young German woman in which we discussed what was happening in the U.S. at the time. I said then that "people think Nazi Germany can't happen here, but it can and it is." This bill proves it.
 
 
+10 # Nel 2011-11-26 16:00
Right, the "salame" strategy/tactic can happen anywhere with a public unwilling to leave the comfort zone.
 
 
+23 # Doubter 2011-11-26 16:26
How about:"The OSTENSIBLE reason this bill is coming up now is to curtail the Occupy movement."
It (repression)is all out in the open now.
Our "Tienanmen Square" is due any minute. Is there anything left for us to do besides lick the hand that beats us?
All that is left of our rights and freedoms is: Remembrance of Things Past."
 
 
+43 # Archie1954 2011-11-26 14:36
I know it's very silly to bring this up but how does US law presume to be effective in other countries such as th ones mentioned in the article? Are the British and Canadains supposed to just sit back and allow American military forces to pounce on unsuspecting individuals in their own countries and let them be dragged away because a bunch of blowhard senators say so? Wow now that's American exceptionalism brought to its ultimate absurdity!
 
 
+3 # KittatinyHawk 2011-11-26 19:48
This should be picked up by those Countries that are not in league put forth by GOP.
I believe that this could even bring about Wars to the North and South we do not even understand power to be in South who would bring in other Nations in Middle East, perhaps Korea.
GOP and morons known as Dems are certainly not thinking of the long term consequences.
promote Democracy abroad, hell no, they want the resources to see to whom I do not know as they are running out of people worldwide who will or can afford.
I do not believe any Alien would want a thing to do with any of them here, why should they, they have the Universe. Foolish Humans, undoing their lives before us all. Guess we will see the affects of Nukes soon enough.
 
 
+6 # Susan W 2011-11-26 21:22
Didn't that very thing happen in Pakistan when our "heroes" assassinated Bin Laden? I don't recall O asking permission.
 
 
+1 # in deo veritas 2011-11-29 18:53
Any country that deserves to be a nation state should regard the intrusion of foreign troops as an act of war unless their permission has been obtained beforehand. These narcissistic cretins who believe in exceptionalism will learn to their dismay that in the end God will not consider us as exceptional at all-just as rotten and undeserving as every other system that has perished because of its corruption.
 
 
+22 # michelle 2011-11-26 14:46
Chilling!! When this bill passes I guess I will meeting many of you commenting here in some sort of government camp after the round up. I'll bring the name tags and my old copy of The First Circle by Alexander Solzhenitsyn. At least the company will be good.
 
 
+12 # GaryE 2011-11-26 20:24
michelle: No so funny. I can imagine these internet conversations suddenly being brought to a halt. We would be cut off from one another. Each of us would be alone. Perhaps now is a good time to start holding private discussion sessions in our own homes as a possible alternative in case that comes about. The Powers who are calling the shots would be uncomfortable not knowing what's being said in these private discussion groups.
 
 
+13 # michelle 2011-11-26 22:58
Exactly my point. I stated it lightly but I'm getting really worried about about our cultural shift. Take a look at the actions of the police departments around this country, especially Davis close to where I live. It is as if the police have become some sort of cult. This behavior is more than following orders. Look at their faces, look at their targets--women, children the elderly. I think they are enjoying the power and can see them turning against the people very quickly. I understand what happened in Germany now. Ordinary folks just can't conceive that it can go that far. I am not seeing any discussion of police training or the how and why of arming police like a military unit. No indepth reporting on the coordination of the crackdown on Occupiers across the country. Meanwhile ordinary Americans are only willing to do battle in aisles of Walmart digging in for the few pennies they can save. How do we raise the consciousness of the masses? How do people get real information? It is nearly impossible to emigrate once you reach a certain age so I'm stuck here.I take some solace in knowing the people rounded up will probably be more interesting, more informed, than those left on the outside. I'll save a name tag for you. In the meantime I recommend The First Circle.
 
 
+6 # Smiley 2011-11-27 18:49
How soon we forget! I saw the police do far worse things at a Vietnam war protest march at Century City in LA. Rescinding the march permit, blocking the escape routes and clubbing as many of the 30,000 men, women and children as possible...memo ry images: old people in wheelchairs dumped over, pregnant woman clubbed in the stomach.. 4 or 5 cops beating an about 14 yr old girl lying on the ground...one cop just standing still and crying.
 
 
+4 # michelle 2011-11-27 20:36
OMG, the 1966 protest against the war and Johnson? I was there, my very first protest and it was indeed scary. I saw the guy in the wheelchair. We went through the hotel to escape the violence. You are right. How quickly we forget. This time I think the authorities have a much tighter, scarier infrastructure in place. I also remember the West Hollywood one where a 1000 people were arrested and it never made the news. Small world, even in cyberspace.
 
 
+36 # reiverpacific 2011-11-26 14:51
America (that is the Fragmented States of NORTH America and not Canada) IS a battlefield.
Note the term "Drafted in secret"! That's the nub of the matter. When the people YOUput in power (I know, I know, not all of you) have to keep closing their doors to transparency in legislation, aided and abetted by a corrupt and cynical supreme court, we HAVE to be a critical mass.
Occupy must grow to include the senate, congress the judiciary and a new manifesto for the rights of all presented to the president! I'll kick in my pen (or keyboard).
Or fall the whole experiment in Democracy we all had hoped for.
 
 
+11 # charsjcca 2011-11-26 14:56
The only way out of this quagmire is to de-fund our government. Do no produce a budget and shut it down. The Udall bill will not change anything. The corrupt do not honor laws. They intend to violate laws
because they can and we can not do anything about. So, boycott the funding of this charade. Then watch it fall from grace.
 
 
+4 # NOMINAE 2011-11-27 00:32
Quoting charsjcca:
The only way out of this quagmire is to de-fund our government. Do no produce a budget and shut it down. The Udall bill will not change anything. The corrupt do not honor laws. They intend to violate laws
because they can and we can not do anything about. So, boycott the funding of this charade. Then watch it fall from grace.


Gotta luv your moxie, charsjcca, but I must assume that you have not yet discovered the fact that the IRS has been totally above the law for centuries.

Does a nice Federal Prison sound like a good place to start a revolution ?

The first rules of effective strategy require that we consider the battlefield as it is, not as we would wish it to be.

"De-funding" is a fantasy simply because we do not "voluntarily" fund the Government to begin with. Please note ..... they take the funding away from us before we ever see it, and it is impossible to get it back.

IRS Law is another one of those laws that you mention that we cannot do anything about.

Reality must rule the day.
We can't fight back without a realistic understanding of the opposition.
 
 
+1 # in deo veritas 2011-11-29 19:03
In a word the opposition is the antichrist. It is a collective not an individual. Failing to understand that we are living in the presence of consummate evil is a fatal error. Most of the Jews didn't believe that the Nazis could do the things they did and look at what befell those who did not leave when they still could. Learn from their example.
 
 
+4 # Barbara K 2011-11-27 08:45
charsjcca: Defunding and shutting down our government is exactly the playbook of the Tbaggers. Is that really what you would want to be done?

NEVER VOTE REPUBLICAN !!
 
 
+4 # Magars 2011-11-27 11:03
Your right,some people think that because this comments you are pro Tea Party, this is totally wrong. At the present time Government is controlled by corporations,so Tea Party represents corporations.Th ey were afraid of changes Obama promised in his campaign,the same that we,that voted for him wanted. When we wanted look back to the Bush Administration wrongdoing,we were thinking about change the way people were doing business in DC,as Obama promised once.
 
 
+30 # Ellioth 2011-11-26 15:10
Graham and others in the Senate who wrote and support this are insane. We have a bunch of Senators and House members who are over the top sick - the inmates are running the asylum. This is why our country and government is screwed up with now.

Please - someone call the men/women in white and bring on the straight jackets. America as battlefield? Yes - between the elite and everyone else.
 
 
+14 # sandyboy 2011-11-26 15:19
I'll say it again: Alan Moore's V for Vendetta has become reality, fascists versus the Occupy folks in the masks. He wrote it about the UK (and we're getting there too) but it's happening in the USA. Forget Never Vote Republican - the new catchphrase is V for Vendetta has come to pass!!
 
 
+25 # tinkertoodle 2011-11-26 15:37
What ever happened to the bill of rights? Did these idiots forget about a slight hinderance called the Constitution?
 
 
+22 # CL38 2011-11-26 16:00
Bush did and GOT AWAY with it, so now the right (and a few Democrats???) continue to
push the limits. We've all got to protest over things like this.
 
 
0 # in deo veritas 2011-11-29 19:06
They took an oath before Almighty God to protect and defend the Constitution. Those who have betrayed that oath are traitors and deserve what they will get for it-temporary disgrace and then permanent damnation. The sooner the better.
 
 
+20 # jwb110 2011-11-26 15:39
It is as though the Senate is trying to start some sort of counter-revolut ion in this Nation! What are they so afraid of....maybe being found out?
 
 
+20 # giraffee2012 2011-11-26 15:41
I hope we SPLIT the USA into separate countries (hell with borders)

Those who want the Koch Brothers to run their country can be together and the rest of us will form a NEW Country without the Supresmes (Scalia/Thomas/ Aliota are out for sure) and any state that thinks guns are more important than looking for the bad guys in govt/banks/1% and who thinks they can vote on "abortion, choice of being openly gay - however it's worded and all those "religious" laws while we have people starving and looking for a place to sleep ) "get the picture"? They can be with the Koch brother country.

The OWS have started the movement. We can finish it.

I'm losing it? But the GOP/TP is controlling the demise of our freedoms guaranteed by our Constitution etc.

We're still paying for 2 unfunded wars, tax cuts, and the ire of most countries toward the hoodlums that occupied the W.H. from 2000-08 ..

For now - register early + get mail in ballots and VOTE DEM VOTE OBAMA (unless a 3rd party emergers that doesn't steal votes from Dems (like Nader did 0 although Nader would have an ok president)
 
 
+29 # angelfish 2011-11-26 15:42
We are being over-run by Fascists and Nazis in our Congress! This is Bull-Puckey! Lindsey Graham should be IMPEACHED along with any other Bozo that supports this Tripe! WHAT ever happened to "land of the Free..."? We're NOT free if they can arrest, detain and imprison ANYONE without due process of Law! We are American Citizens! That USED to stand for something in this World. Sadly, it no longer does if this travesty is allowed to pass. Call, Write, Tweet your Congressperson to decry this outrageous, undemocratic piece of garbage!
 
 
+25 # Inland Jim 2011-11-26 15:44
Singer's Second Law of Politics: The assholes never rest.
 
 
+23 # Kootenay Coyote 2011-11-26 15:48
I imagine there will be some resistance to this. But should this Bill pass & not be vetoed by Obama, the USA will by definition become a military dictatorship in which martial law is the rule & the US Constitution is effectively dead. & do not for a second imagine that Here in Canada Harper is not watching this closely, as it fits in beautifully with his Dominionist & totalitarian ideology.
 
 
+13 # hairybearded 2011-11-26 15:50
Pernsey, I read the line that the White House is threatening to veto this, so I do not see how President Obama could be "ramping up to sign this crap." Ever since we elected a constitutional scholar, we now have millions of arm chair constitutional experts and evangelical teabagger constitutional fundamentalists . So how could this remotely fly with them?? How enough provisions could enable me to trust my "leaders" to only use this type of power in justified situations is never going to happen. As an American, I demand my right to counsel and to know of what I am accused, no matter what! To trust electing reasonable congresspeople, or other leadership to issue-illiterat es who vote into office narrow, fundamentalist, extreme right wingers based on the nasty attack ads televised and mailed by Rove-Armey-Koch et al funds and the lies on Fox fear,smear, spin network, is worrisome. When elected officials in Tenn or Ky, etc, glibly talk about "2nd amendment solutions to the Occupy Wall Street bunch," we need to hang on to our rights, not suspend any in the name of false security of safety. Shame on ALL senators who proposed this in secrecy without any transparency of public awareness until they could spring it without any publicity to citizen discussion is sneaky, creepy and disgusting. Fire all senators who support this PROCESS putting out such important legislation.
 
 
+11 # futhark 2011-11-26 17:17
Hairybearded, your last sentence was enough for me to give you a "thumbs up", but the rest of your verbiage was difficult to comprehend. I take it that you lack confidence in our reputed-to-be constitutional scholar president. The Patriot-Act-pro moting and drone-attack-co mmanding chief executive seems to me to be going down the well-worn path of serving the plutocracy at the expense of the goals and ideals of the American Revolution, not to mention his own 2008 campaign promises.
 
 
+4 # pernsey 2011-11-27 12:49
I said I HOPE hes not ramping up to sign it, I didnt say he was. I was just voicing my opinion and apparently a lot of other people are hoping hes not going to sign this crap also. I made a statement of what I hoped would not happen.
 
 
+21 # Nel 2011-11-26 15:51
The idea is to keep us terrorized, mindless so they can use us at (their) will.
The antidote: Occupy Congress, TV, radio, newspaper stations and let all voices speak their mind.
 
 
+35 # CL38 2011-11-26 15:59
This is one of the most dangerous bills ever proposed in the US. Please contact your reps and raise holy hell about this before it's too late.
 
 
+25 # lorenbliss 2011-11-26 16:02
As Patch noted above, it is obvious this bill is in direct response to the Occupy Movement.

Historically speaking, this is a logical progression. The One Percent's fears of revolution intensify in direct proportion to their escalations in capitalist tyranny, whether in terms of the economic malevolence that was supposed to crush us (homelessness, starvation and death), or the suppression of dissent intended to silence us forever -- Homeland Security's use of local police against various Occupy groups.

But there's another teachable point here too. The collaboration of Democrat Levin and Republican McCain clearly demonstrates the magnitude of the capitalist scam -- the fact that behind the proverbial curtain, there is no meaningful difference between the parties.

As to Barack the Betrayer's alleged opposition, I'm sure that will prove as reliable as his alleged opposition to Guantanamo. In other words, he undoubtedly supports the bill.

Lastly, huge kudos to JPS and RSN generally for having the foresight and courage to expose this atrocity-in-the -making.
 
 
+20 # universlman 2011-11-26 16:13
will the president veto this bill if it gets that far?

he kept guantanamo open, killed all hope for universal health care, extended the "patriot" act and let the banks off scott free with pallets of our cash AND bonuses to boot - honestly, we already know the answer to this and it stinks
 
 
+25 # cordleycoit 2011-11-26 16:30
Fascism is America with this law. The Repugs have betrayed the roots of America. This law must be resisted by and with what ever power is necessary in the spirit of Tom Jefferson, Francis Marion and the Resistance.
 
 
+17 # papabob 2011-11-26 16:30
Albert Einstein once said that there are "just two constants in this world, the universe and human stupidity - and sometimes I'm not so sure about the universe".

I think we just found the first prize in stupidity!
 
 
+10 # Bruce Gruber 2011-11-26 16:31
Bumper sticker politics for NASCAR advertising consumers in an anti-intellectu al six pack world ... who could figger?
 
 
+28 # arachneabroad 2011-11-26 16:36
At this point, outrage and scorn are not enough. We need to forward this piece to every online news site we can and demand that they make this front page. The vote is on Monday. Short of publicizing this militaristic legislation, yes, support the Udall Amendment.
 
 
+17 # Torvus 2011-11-26 16:55
Have American politicians gone stark raving mad? Is this what virtually unquestioned power has done to them? Are the wimps so terrified by the Occupy-ers' success and determination that the politicos must openly show their contempt for the citizens of the USA? These polunatics are not running but sitting(! OK so use the Other Word) scared, having no doubt sat(!) for many an hour in their dark secret corners, not only counting their money but also plotting revenge on Americans who disagree with them - under normal civilised conditions called the opposition but now labelled The Enemy - who seriously threaten their position and power. Any problem with the status quo? Change the law to suit themselves. They are looking for a fight. Future outlook: Grim grim grim.
 
 
+24 # Kayjay 2011-11-26 16:56
Sadly, that this bill is even being considered is evidence that the America of the mid-twentieth century and earlier is atrophying. Can gulags in North Dakota be far off?
 
 
+15 # minkdumink 2011-11-26 17:10
why is it these South Carolinians always want to throw the Nation into some crises,and feel the need to restrict americans of our constitutional rights? Americans are free,and whats more, they know it. Take away that freedom and you might get a ''battlefield'' of your worst nightmare.
 
 
+14 # bubbiesue 2011-11-26 17:41
One could also vote NO. Failing to do that is un-American.
 
 
+6 # Brewsir 2011-11-26 17:45
While you are at it Lindsey ol' chap, let's get that miscegination thing back in place. Let's prevent 'em before conception. We can hide that little law back in the place where them "bridge to nowhere' folks used to live. Let's also put this Right to Vote facade back into the waters just round the place where our support lives...remembe r ol' Medgar and them five little girls who was prayin' when that bomb hit dat place? Who cares about Susan B and MLK rolling over in their graves? Let's return to the good ol' days when many in that same Chamber had the guts to maintain the legality of Lynching. Weren't those days the best?
 
 
+8 # Archie1954 2011-11-26 20:04
Crazy even if a bad case of irony.
 
 
+28 # Carbonman1950 2011-11-26 17:57
All I can say is that every person who sponsors or votes for this legislation HAS broken the legal oath to "Defend the Constitution Against All Enemies Foreign or Domestic" they took when they were sworn into their public offices. Not only that they have BECOME an enemy of the Constitution.

It is past time to impeach the bastards.
 
 
+8 # Archie1954 2011-11-26 20:03
You hit that nail head on!
 
 
+10 # Carbonman1950 2011-11-26 17:59
What is the bill number for this bit of subversion?
 
 
+13 # heraldmage 2011-11-27 00:54
S 1867 Nation Defense Authorization Act
The Udall amendment removes the arrest without cause and indefinite detection, but I'm not sure if it gets rid of the worldwide war which includes USA & its citizens as enemies.
Time to bring all troops, weapons, naval vessels, aircraft, tanks, rockets, bombs, all armaments of all types back to USA, cancel all contracts except food & clothes for troops & vote no on S1867 until "we the people" have had a full accounting of military equipment & determine what is required to defend the borders of the USA not the world. Why exactly do we have scores of bases in Europe & Britain? Can't they defend their own nation? If not, why not, and why should we defend them?
 
 
+2 # Doubter 2011-11-27 18:23
DEFEND!?
Who from?
 
 
0 # in deo veritas 2011-11-29 19:19
Evidently from themselves.Also who will defend them from US?
 
 
+10 # Okieangels 2011-11-26 18:18
Well, kids, at this rate we'll be damned lucky if we even have an election a year from now....just sayin'.
 
 
+12 # Timaloha 2011-11-26 18:34
On the plus side, now, if your neighbor's dog keeps shitting on your lawn, you can make up a story, call the stormtroopers and have him hauled off for cupcakes and waterboarding! indefinitely!
 
 
+16 # oakes721 2011-11-26 18:52
A Plot Was Cooking While Your Turkey Was Roasting. With the Intestinal Fortitude of Rabbits, Congressmen, Senators & Presidents Are Not Who Are Making These Decisions. Occupy Has Touched a Nerve. FEAR is Being Legislated to Prevent the (Victims) Public's Presence, to Silence the Voices of Free Speech Which Speak Now of Justice. If this FEAR of Being KIDNAPPED by Government Militias Doesn't Stop the People, Then Be Aware That Cornered Rats are Dangerous Animals.
 
 
+12 # BettyFaas 2011-11-26 19:38
All I can do is shake my head in disbelief and petition my senators to vote right Monday when I read such proposals for laws as this travesty of a proposal!
 
 
+14 # Bodiotoo 2011-11-26 19:45
Support ythe admendment? Are you crazy? This bill should be voted down period...and the sponsors should be hung in effigy...if not out right Tarred and Feathered!
Homeland Security smacks od FACISM...
Is Reid actually allowing this bill on the floor...don't we have at least 51 Senators that are sane?
If this thing passes...we need a presdiential VETO...You hear that Obama...Veto it!
 
 
+8 # cynnibunny 2011-11-26 19:57
While it is true that you cannot 'trust' a political party to do your work for you, your response should not be, "We're F'ed" and give up.

What OWS is demonstrating is that remaining non-partisan, and countering all attempts to co-opt them, can work! Having been part of the social change movement in the early 80's, I know that remaining non-partisan can keep your message 'pure', and that getting involved in partisan politics can mean the movement 'sells-out', the reality is actually more complicated.

There must be a balance between maintaining purity, and getting dirty. In other words, the deception that many attribute to politics (and everyone from Nixon to GW like to harp upon to keep us apolitical) is part of the practice of politics.

Keep your message pure OWS, and stay unaffiliated. Promise the parties the world, and don't actually, officially support anyone. Simply encourage your members to get involved on their own.

Politics evolves with each new generation. It's not the same now cause of the new tools. Good luck young generation!
 
 
+11 # readerz 2011-11-26 20:51
I am against this act, but I can think of a few who should be imprisoned right away: George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Sarah Palin, Blackwater execs...
Of course, they won't be.
 
 
+14 # MainStreetMentor 2011-11-26 20:59
My word! This is insanity! How is it possible that elected representatives , whose offices they hold were created under the very Constitution which this proposed legislation slices to pieces, could consider EVEN DISCUSSING such anti-democratic treason – much less putting such lunacy to paper as a potential legal document of the Unites States Congress?! This can NOT be happening in the halls of the same Congress who declared war to protect that very same constitution and democracy from the tyrants of World War II – a conflict in which thousands upon thousands of Americans gave their lives to preserve! Those brave patriotic souls preserved and saved America – now, in my lifetime, I am witness to dastardly conduct from internal members of our OWN COUNTRY – WHO intend to blatantly disregard all those lives-of-paymen t, and destroy from within that which tyranny could not. The authors of this pending legislation are, I submit, treasonous traitors to our Constitution, our Democracy and even politics itself. Note the names of the sponsors and co-sponsors of this pending legislation, and help make sure that every citizen knows of their shameful, destructive intentions.
 
 
+7 # Capn Canard 2011-11-27 07:21
MainStreetMento r, I agree it is beyond shocking... But many, if not most, members of congress are failures in their personal lives. The preponderance of sociopathic tendencies is above the norm for politicians and it is not uncommon to see narcissistic personality disorders amongst members of Congress. And that is just the tip of the iceberg.
 
 
+3 # Doubter 2011-11-27 18:41
It stands to reason one must be either a Statesman or a Megalomaniac to crave POWER.
How many statesmen do you know?
 
 
+5 # Doubter 2011-11-27 18:37
I agree with you but I also believe that I was sent to WWII as part of the "World Controllers" strategy of getting richer and more powerful by suckering the Germans and Japanese into thinking they could -and wanting to - conquer the world.
I almost got blown up by a hand grenade that bounced off of a Royal Dutch Shell sign and remember marching past a tremendous Ford Assembly plant making German tanks.

http://rationalrevolution.net/war/american_supporters_of_the_europ.htm
"A number of prominent and wealthy American businessmen helped to support fascist regimes in Europe from the 1920s through the 1940s. These people helped to support Francisco Franco during the Spanish Civil War of 1936, as well as Benito Mussolini, and Adolph Hitler.

Some of the primary and more famous Americans and companies that were involved with the fascist regimes of Europe are: William Randolph Hearst, Joseph Kennedy (JFK's father), Charles Lindbergh, John Rockefeller, Andrew Mellon (head of Alcoa, banker, and Secretary of Treasury), DuPont, General Motors, Standard Oil (now Exxon), Ford, ITT, Allen Dulles (later head of the CIA), Prescott Bush, National City Bank, and General Electric."
 
 
+15 # pernsey 2011-11-26 21:20
Our problem is our representatives no longer represent us, now they only represent the corporations. We vote them in only to have them represent the 1%. They are bought and paid for before they even start or shortly after.
 
 
+8 # heraldmage 2011-11-27 01:08
Enact legislation Publicly funding all political campaigns with absolutely no private money allowed.
Free the press by requiring all news & current events to be broadcast as a public serve & discussion programs labelled throughout "opinion, commentary, not based on fact". Modify the Fairness Doctrine to require alternate views to be aired without charge as public service for use of the peoples airwaves.
The truth has been hidden in propaganda & scare tactics for decades, it's time all the dirty laundry was hung out to dry and let the chips fall where they may. Maybe those detention center will be filled with the 1% to protect them from the wrath of the people once the entire truth is exposed
 
 
+2 # MainStreetMentor 2011-11-28 06:56
Yes, sadly, Pernsey, that's true. "Our" representatives have become "their" sycophants and disciples. The only "voice" we have now comes directly from the governed: the "Occupy Movement".
 
 
0 # Torvus 2011-12-01 17:08
Quoting pernsey:
Our problem is our representatives no longer represent us, now they only represent the corporations. We vote them in only to have them represent the 1%. They are bought and paid for before they even start or shortly after.

Thank you. In 3 short sentences you have pinpointed the very essence of the problem, no more, no less.
 
 
+10 # sebouhian 2011-11-27 02:05
1984? brave new world? entropy?
 
 
+10 # James Marcus 2011-11-27 02:12
Senators Levin, McCain, Graham and Ayotte should all be prosecuted For proposing this Violation of Constitutional (and Human) Rights.
A lawsuit might let them know we are watching and Seeing; and that they are vulnerable
 
 
+14 # hankgeorge 2011-11-27 02:17
The Nazis tried to seize power in Munich and failed. So they teamed up with the industralists and took power "legally."

Pro-fascist Americans tried to oust FDR and failed. Now they are teamed up with much of the 1% to get their ends legally.

Gore wins in Florida but Bush is appointed President. In 2004, Ohio voting machines take over and Bush "wins" again (and a recent investigation demonstrates that Bush lost, based on a recount of ballots).

Obama takes office and has the "facts of life" read to him at the Bilderberg Group meeting in suburban DC the summer before he is elected. Obama carries out their will, denying most of his promises to the people.

Does anypone perceive a trend here?
 
 
+10 # Carolyn 2011-11-27 04:52
thank you to the ACLU for opening our eyes, for bringing into the light the Change we have voted for and allowed to take place -- the war against humanity
 
 
+5 # RJB 2011-11-27 05:08
Why at this time??????

They don't know how to handle "Occupy." We just keep coming back and coming back. Recall that the Halliburton POW camps are waiting.
 
 
-8 # MylesH 2011-11-27 06:18
It would be wise for you Democratic Party addicts to remember the words of Pastor Martin Niemöller when you say never vote for Republicans.
 
 
+5 # Capn Canard 2011-11-27 07:15
This is the old battle of rich versus poor and it will increase in this economy that is based on debt. Perhaps it is time to eliminate the Fiat currency/money system and create a system based on tangible qualitative value rather than the false value of promissory notes often based on scarcity.
 
 
+11 # MainStreetMentor 2011-11-27 07:21
It’s as if the infected ghosts of Hitler, Mussolini, Goering, Hess, Himmler, Bormann and other tyrannical wastes of the past have invaded the minds of the sponsors and co-sponsors of this pending legislation. The implications of such enabling assassination of the entire ideology that is Democracy cripples and stuns the thought processes of every freedom loving citizen in this country. The elected officials whose names are affixed or associated with this potential legislation are most definitely sycophants of Greed. How is it possible that an entire nation can come to the point where they allow such destructive legislation to actually be considered on the floor of the Senate? The answer is of course the fundamental reasons the Occupy Movement exists: Corporate Greed and RepubTeacans blinded by the lust for power and control.
 
 
+4 # Doubter 2011-11-27 18:45
Hell, we don't even know the government's interpretation of the so called "Patriot Act." We've already "had it." They just want a little more frosting on their cake.
 
 
+14 # MainStreetMentor 2011-11-27 07:56
This isn’t “playing politics” any longer. This is an “in-your-face”, blatant, active, aggressive assault on the fundamentals of Democracy and a wanton, dangerous step toward the actual introduction of working fascism as a replacement of our governance. Citizens of every political affiliation need to react to the vicious “slap-in-the-fa ce” to their fundamental philosophical stances this potential legislation offers. This legislation is a thrust of the assassin’s dagger at the very heart and soul of Democracy. The entire bill and any suggestion of it, or any “modification” to it, must be struck down before it garners any more attention as to its’ potential passage.
 
 
+11 # Hank 2011-11-27 08:10
Bodiotoo is right on. We don't know what exactly the Udall amendment covers; it might be as bad as S. 1867.
Better to email the president and ask him to veto the bill and/or any amendment.
We do not need this.
 
 
0 # in deo veritas 2011-11-29 19:48
Ask-HELL! It is time to DEMAND what we need from government. Asking gets us nowhere. Money doesn't talk-it ROARS! We must roar louder. You only get as good a government as you demand and I cannot remember in the last 69 years of life the last time the people demanded anything. Thanks to our apathy and ignorance we are suffering in a corrupt society that we helped create by shutting our eyes,ears and minds and bending over rather than holding our heads high. Now holding our noses will not protect us from the evil stench that is increasing at an exponential rate. We have met the enemy and he is US!
 
 
+8 # cvm79 2011-11-27 10:01
"Tom Drake stepped forward with the integrity, the courage, and — let’s say it, the true patriotism — to blow the whistle. The Department of Justice retaliated by indicting and prosecuting Drake under the Espionage Act and, once again, became the laughing stock of the legal profession.

In Drake’s case, government attempts to abuse the law to intimidate those who would speak truth to power expose in a telling way what has become the military-indust rial-intelligen ce-surveillance -cybersecurity- congressional-m edia complex and its abuses, which drain our treasury, endanger our liberty, and make our country less — not more — secure."

http://consortiumnews.com/2011/11/27/what-country-do-we-want-to-keep/
 
 
+8 # Kindler 2011-11-27 13:11
This is not a republican or democrat issue it is a human rights issue. People wonder why we occupy and this is a good example. We are under constant watch and have no freedom to assemble without a permit and it's getting more out of hand everyday. Write your senators and let them know what you think of this bill. We have nothing to fear except our government, stop being so hung up on what party is doing what. We are all in this together and so are they.
 
 
+1 # Kindler 2011-11-29 06:01
1
 
 
+7 # wilhelmscream 2011-11-27 13:32
It's like the Salem Witch Trials
 
 
+8 # cypress72 2011-11-27 15:26
Dear Barbara K:
Please note that S.1867 is co-sponsored by Sen. Carl Levin a DEMOCRAT from Michigan and since the DEMOCRATS control the Senate, it'll be the DEMOCRATS and not the stupid REPUBLICANS that will be responsible for this. Never vot for stupid politicians from either Party.
 
 
+10 # Magars 2011-11-27 15:39
IWASHINGTON — Minutes before a midnight deadline, President Barack Obama signed into law a four-year extension of post-Sept. 11 powers to search records and conduct roving wiretaps in pursuit of terrorists.
PATRIOT Act was fought in court by ACLU the 1st time and tried without success to convince the President not to sign it's extension .
 
 
+5 # Bodiotoo 2011-11-27 19:13
Quoting Magars:
IWASHINGTON — Minutes before a midnight deadline, President Barack Obama signed into law a four-year extension of post-Sept. 11 powers to search records and conduct roving wiretaps in pursuit of terrorists.
PATRIOT Act was fought in court by ACLU the 1st time and tried without success to convince the President not to sign it's extension .


That Obama signed this is inexcusable.
 
 
+6 # Kayjay 2011-11-27 16:07
Heaven help us if ever such a warped idea became law in this nation. We'd be in the same twilight zone the Soviet people lived in. This was a world where, those who chanced dissention often ended up in faraway gulags. Impeach John McCain!
 
 
+2 # CandH 2011-11-27 22:14
One, this is about Syria/Iran. Russia is positioning nuclear subs/assets off Syria's coast as we speak because the US is ramping up its rhetoric towards a "Libya II" scenario. Think "Japanese Internment Camps," for all persons related to this new front developing, including war protesters, peace activists, Middle East sympathizers, etc. Where are those FEMA camps everyone's been talking about?

Also, Europe is imploding as we speak as well. Germany has just been effectively silenced, whilst Goldman Sachs puppets are being directly placed and positioned to continue the implosion program. And from Europe's chaos will come our very own, Goldman Sachs planned implosion. This will be more difficult than most of us have experienced in our lifetimes. Notice the propaganda has already started: Time Magazine's recent cover was "Why Anxiety is Good for You."

This legislation is in anticipation of all that's to come soon, which will bring on an enormous strain on the 99% of the world, including death, disease, and starvation. This is our warning from Congress. Time to Wake up!
 
 
+2 # Electricrailwaygod 2011-11-27 23:49
As indeed I have no proof of this (except an old book that came out many years ago "Who Financed Hitler" and that Prescot Bush, GWB's Grandfather who turned out to be A. Hitler's private banker, ...and that Henry Ford financially SUPPORTED the NSDAP, this is just postulation): That the whole concept of Nazism was a covert American idea and publically made to appear as a German invention.

Thus a REHEARSAL sort to speak for future generations to actually put into place. Well it appears that this is that "future" time. Look at what is happening to this country right now!

Could I be correct in my postulation? Thus during Hitler it was the Jewish population as the target (along with some other groups of people) but today the target is the POOR OF THE WORLD! So sad if I turn out to be absolutely correct! GOD I hope I am in error here!
 
 
0 # in deo veritas 2011-11-29 19:59
Bravo!
Ford was a notorious anti-Semite. He received a medal from Hitler and refused to send it back.He wrote an anti-Jewish book. Today the 99% are faced with what the Jews were wherever Germany ruled. We are ALL the Jews in the Fourth Reich. There are many books worth reading in addition to the one you referred to. Oh also JFK's father Joe was so pro-German that the Brits demanded that FDR recall him and appoint a new ambassador. It looks like even if we had obliterated Germany and Japan, their fascist goals would still be alive and well in America today as indeed they are.
 
 
+3 # MylesH 2011-11-28 02:02
Whether 3rd parties are successful or not, or whether they only support one of the 2 main parties is irrelevant. Voting for either the D or the R creates the very problems we're faced with today. Supporting one over the other, because it's the lesser evil, is still supporting evil and one who does vote D or R has no justification for complaining. You got what you voted for if your party won, and if it lost, you have a different letter by his name, but the policies remain the same. Obama has out-bushed Bush. We see the liberal Carl Levin promoting such an anti-democratic and unconstitutiona l law with that nutjob McCain. At least with 3rd parties you can vote your conscience and not be guilt ridden with the consequences if you actually win. Hopefully, in time, the 2 main parties will merge, as they are of one main philosophy and agenda (capitalist/imp erialism) and 3rd parties will be the dominant voice of political expression.
 
 
+4 # tinkertoodle 2011-11-28 03:19
Unfortunately it may already be too late to defeat this. You can call the people in Congress but unless they get hundreds of thousands of dollars from you you will be ignored. Their true allegiance goes to those who line their pockets not the people they were elected to represent
 
 
+3 # MainStreetMentor 2011-11-28 08:26
Please make note that the S. 1867 Bill pending in the U.S. Senate is sponsored by three (3) Republicans and one (1) “Blue Dog” Democrat. Here are their names, (and thanks to James Marcus for providing those names in an earlier post herein): Carl Levin, (D-MI); John McCain, (R-AZ); Lindsey Graham, (R-SC); Kelly Ayotte, (R-NH). We need to assure that ALL persons we interface within our daily lives know what these four traitors of Democracy are attempting to do. The avenue for their attempt was paved by the “Patriot Acts” … (no, make that the “Patriot Ax”) – as a precedent. The “Patriot Ax” should have been actively pursued as being repealed by the Democrats – and championed by Pres. Obama. Ain’t-a-gonna-h appen.
 
 
+3 # Linda 2011-11-28 09:34
Magars perhaps you should have checked this out before you posted .

A measure to extend key provisions of the Patriot Act counterterroris m surveillance law through December failed the House Tuesday night, with more than two-dozen Republicans bucking their party to oppose the measure.

The House measure, which was sponsored by Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.) and required a two-thirds majority for passage, failed on a 277-to-148 vote. Twenty-six Republicans voted with 122 Democrats to oppose the measure, while 67 Democrats voted with 210 Republicans to back it. Ten members did not vote.

I suggest we find out who those 67 Dems were and vote them out ! We know we have Blue Dogs in the Democratic party and its those we need to get rid of . Still 122 is a far cry from your calculations of only 2 Magars.

What bothers me is why parents keep sending their kids into the military or why any of the 99% would think of joining the military . I am surprized they haven't figured out that they are being trained to fight corporate wars and against their own people.Get out of the military people and support your people at home !You are the 99% !
 
 
+2 # rhgreen 2011-11-28 14:12
Why don't Senators such as Levin, McCain, Graham and Ayotte just propose a bill which suspends all the constitutional rights that protect US citizens? Why don't they just be honest and up-front? Have they, or the readers here, read the 'Cities in Flight' trilogy by James Blish? It's still widely available. Its first book is about a future in which the US has become so much like totalitarian states that there isn't much to choose between them anymore. Let's get these guys out of the US Senate, especially McCain who might have become our President. Dear God.
 
 
+2 # giraffee2012 2011-11-28 15:29
The "tax on the rich" is 3.8 or 4% - it is not huge. Meanwhile many have so many loop holes that the rest of us don't have that many "rich" (top 1%) pay less total and certainly less percentage of their income than the AVERAGE American.

Those tax cuts have NOT created jobs - as can be seen by the online stats and still have not created jobs since the debate started in the lame-duck 2009 Congress.

All the hoopla by the GOP/TP and press is crap.

And the debt is money already spent (after those tax cuts went into affect).

Deficit spending is unclear since part of our govt's spending is PAYING OFF THE DEBT.

Register early + mail-in ballots and get dem districts registered also.
Vote Dem Vote Obama in 2012
 
 
0 # barbh 2011-11-28 19:14
I don't know why the writer did not provide a link to the applicable sections of the bill. I have seen it in full on other sites, and it does seem to eliminate American citizens from the military trial and detention. The bill is creepy for sure, but why did Chris Anders not put this out for people to see for themselves?
 
 
+1 # Kindler 2011-11-29 18:16
I have searched the comments and can't find mine, I wonder why it was removed? I am with occupy Pittsburgh and stand firmly against this bill. In my previous comment I said that this was not a republican or demacrat issue. It is a human rights issue and we are all in this together and so are they. I wonder how long this comment will stay up as the other was sensored off after two days.
 
 
+1 # Kindler 2011-11-30 06:22
Funny but my old comment is up again, go figure.
 
 
0 # LessSaid 2011-11-30 06:49
What is amazing is that the U.S. is criticizing what is going in Syria, but at the same time trying to establish the same kind of military and government power right here in the U.S.
 

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