Tomasky writes: "It's hard to see why Obama should give something to get a win he stands a good chance of getting at no price a few weeks later."
President Barack Obama in Tucson, Arizona, 01/12/11. (photo: Jewel Samad/Getty Images)
Will Obama Screw Liberals?
12 December 12
If Obama is really considering hiking the Medicare eligibility age, he's off to a bad start with the base. Michael Tomasky on the potentially colossal blunder.
unday afternoon I received an email from Howard Dean. Not a personal one, but nevertheless seeing his name there made me look twice, because I never get emails of any kind from Howard Dean. This one warned me ominously about the looming cuts to Medicare, and while the Deanian digit of outrage was pointed at the Republicans, the email also noted that my voice was needed to ensure that the Democrats stood united against the assault. Translated, this means that liberals are terrified that the White House is about to agree to increase the Medicare eligibility age to 67. I don't personally feel quite as strongly about this as many others do, for reasons I'll get into. But my own views aside, I think the White House ought to know that by all existing evidence, if it agrees to such a deal, Barack Obama will lose liberal support far more quickly, more despondently, and more, if I may put it this way, ferociously and furiously than he ever lost it over the public option.
Here's the talk that started over the weekend: That the White House was ... well, the correct verb is an interesting question here ... contemplating? Pushing? Offering? ... a deal that quickly was dubbed 67-for-37. The Democrats would agree to raise the Medicare eligibility age to 67 from the current 65, and Republicans would agree to hike the marginal tax rate on taxable dollars earned above $250,000 to 37 percent (down from Obama's desired 39.6 percent). Both sides give, both sides get. It looks, to your average person, reasonable. It could be done before the New Year. As we say in Appalachia, Bob's your uncle.
Except that it isn't that simple. As clean and balanced as this might look to the unschooled eye, it would actually constitute a huge win for the Republicans-the party at the table, remember, that is presumed to have little to no leverage here. Why would that be? Because it's a lot easier to change marginal tax rates around than it is to go back in and fiddle with an entitlement rule. Tax rates aren't easy to change, mind you. But entitlement changes are really, really hard and rare. If the Medicare age got bumped up to 67, I can't imagine a force in the future that could bump it back down, what with the deficit-obsessed establishment that we have in this town. So Obama would be giving the Republicans something much more likely to remain permanent in exchange for a thing the Republicans can change pretty quickly the next time they have a president and majorities in Congress.
But that's only the start. It turns out that raising the eligibility age by these two years doesn't really save any money. The economist Brad DeLong explains that spending in Medicaid and other subsidies would have to be increased to help cover the 65- and 66-year-olds who fall through the cracks.
Neera Tanden, head of the Center for American Progress, made this points and others on Chris Hayes's MSNBC show over the weekend. Tanden is a powerful figure in Washington progressive circles, and CAP is close to the administration-a formula that usually means that a person in Tanden's position would be sheepishly imploring viewers to see both sides of this complicated question. That she did not shows, well, that she has backbone (and she worked on Obama's campaign!), and it reflects just how unhappy Obama's base, even his establishment base, would be.
Those troublesome 65- and 66-year-olds, of course, raise not merely a fiduciary question, but a moral one. What about the people who fall through the cracks and are stuck without insurance for two years? And that raises the Really Big Issue here, which is what really has liberals climbing a tree: a Democratic president, fresh off a convincing reelection, is going to be the guy to take a huge bite out of the social safety net? You've got to be kidding me.
And so, we're hearing it, or I'm hearing it, from some quarters already. He's going to sell us out. He was never that liberal anyway. He said back in 2009 that he wanted to do big entitlement reform, so why shouldn't we take him at his word? And so on and so on. Liberals, or at least some liberals, have already returned to the normal crouch position of anticipating the not-at-all theoretical day that Obama sells them out in one beat of their bleeding hearts.
For my own part, I'm not there yet. Matt Yglesias wrote last week that cutting a deal with this element is conceivable provided Obama gets in return something health-care related, and something that covers those 65- and 66-year-olds who risk getting caught in the cracks. Such a deal, depending on its particulars, wouldn't be insane. But this too would be politically difficult. Raising the eligibility age to match the increasing Social Security retirement age (67 in 2028 under current law) could make sense provided the Affordable Care Act has been fully implemented and the new health-care exchanges are up and running, so people can buy into those at affordable rates. But Republicans, of course, are still looking for ways to kill off the ACA. And governors aren't setting up the exchanges. Signs aren't encouraging that the Republicans would bargain in good faith on this point, but at least in policy terms, a rationale would exist for going to 67.
But for Obama to accept a 67-for-37 kind of deal would be madness. Especially before January 1, when the tax rates go up. It's hard to see why Obama should give something to get a win he stands a good chance of getting at no price a few weeks later. (I doubt the Republicans can afford politically to let all taxes go up, so they will be eager for a deal-almost any deal-very soon.)
Obama faces enormous establishment pressure to consummate a deal-from Wall Street, from much of the mainstream media, etc. I'm more willing than most liberals to concede that he has to take that pressure seriously. But he might also keep in mind that two thirds of the public, including a hefty majority of Republicans, opposes going to 67. And he might also remember his voters. The market might not care much about lower-income senior citizens, but he was elected to do just that.
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I find this statement offensive. Camus you are bringing in the race card. Why jump to this ridiculous conclusion. It is YOU who are doing the stereotyping. Knock it off will you. You may analyze Obama's ideology based on his track record and the writer may be doing this and never uses the race card in his piece.
If his actions determine the latter legacy, then why should anyone who believes in progressive values ever vote for a Democrat again? It would not be a "waste" of a vote, to vote Green or other Progressive choice, if the only difference between D & R is the rate at which they will destroy our society, prostituting themselves for campaign cash.
Forcing seniors to pick through an array of provate plans (Medicare "Advantage") with all sorts of costs and bennefits is a poor way to serve people many of whom are on a fixed income and have no idea what will happen next to them medically. Why not just put everyone on a single payer system and our costs will fall to the levels found in every other industrialzed nation AND our mediocre outcomes will improve. Afre we going to continue mucking around with this issue for ever?
His efficacy (and ability to leave a 2nd-term legacy) will decline steadily over the next four years. He needs to retain broad-based public support if he wants to forestall lame-duck status as long as possible.
He is most assuredly going to screw progressives.
You're unfortunately correct. "Liberal" has been redefined and shoved well to the right, resulting in its becoming a synonym for "right of center", a lot of these DINOs are the majority of commenters on RSN. But the funny thing is that they would still like to be perceived as caring, socially responsible progressives. Sorry, one cannot support Obama and be mistaken for a socially responsible caring person. That's just not compatible.
I mean, really, would Social Security have lasted this long if it had been called FDRicurity.
"The Elderly" - and by that I mean the retired who have to live on ONLY SS, b/c corporations (really, ALL employers) systematically destroyed their ability to save by the statistically DEMONSTRATED stagnation of wages, increased periods of unemployment, and upward wealth/income consolidation LEGISLATED into effect over the last 60 years.
Glaring Examples: the erosion of the successful 92% TMR (which CREATED the middle class consumer economy) down to 34%,numerousoth er reductions of taxes on extreme unearned wealth, and the Gramm/Leach/Bli ley "Finance Modernization" Act that repealed Glass Steagall.
There were also numerous de facto corporate coups tolerated; like creating derivatives, "hedging" risk, corruption of regulators and nonenforcement of loophole abuses, safety and environmental regs, and antitrust.
It appears to me the working seniors have shared ALL the pain. "Balance?" would mean some VERY extreme and ruthless PAYBACK - and Fast. We're dying soon - in constant worry; actual, statistical Sub-FPL poverty, after a lifetime of nothing but work.
In the eyes of our shadowy masters, it's a tuning problem. They want the cattle to still be there forever, while they suck out as much blood and treasure as possible. Romney would have destroyed the feast by being too heavy handed. Obama is just right to continue the torture of our society forever. Who says that torture doesn't work? Clearly it does for the ownership class.
He doesn't need "his base" anymore. Besides, you CAN fool SOME of the people all of the time.
but, but, but... he's "the lesser evil"... isn't he????? LMAO!
With all of the other catastrophes he's handled valiantly I'm willing to cut him some slack and still call him a Liberal and put him on the side of the "good guy".
Now this whole medicae thing. I'm 30 and have insurance through my wife's employer so I'm not going to act as if I know anything about this really. But I'll wager that if BO said anything about MC co sessions to Boehner it was just a ploy to give him some meat to toss to the rebub followers he controls and to get some lubrication in their joints. I may be wrong though.
What's 2-5 years going to do??
Please, let me know cause honestly I don't.
Just seems as if it was this way (65y old inception of MC coverage) for so long that is the reason raising the age a bit is labeled sacrelidge.
I'm all for universal healthcare too as a person who has been living with type 1 diabetes since the age of 13, I can hardly imagine not having insurance and retaining the standard if life I currently enjoy. Seems like MC and UH are the same, perhaps they should be unified in order to create a cheaper pool somehow???
Enough already.
If he fails to do right by us, in 2016 Obama could just cool his heals (maybe even teach neoliberal economics at the CIA-influenced University of Chicago) while his Congressional flunkies get tossed to the curb and thereafter forced into other deceptive fields of wealth gathering.
Hear us Durbin, Warner, Bingham, Baucus, and Conrad?
OB - don't do it. If you give into the Repugs/TP at all - we'll go down so fast ... and your legacy will not be what it could have been.
Progressives/liberals - and even Republicans who are against the 67 will surely put your reputation in the toilet forever
What do you want to bet that HE is the one who suggested it to the Rethugs, in the first place? Why do you people always assume Obama is on your side? He isn't!
I am left with a sick feeling that he will once more give away to the Repugs what they want in exchange for what he thinks will keep the citizens who voted for him quiet even if we really get screwed in the process. I see no reason to trust him since I voted for him as the lesser of two evils this time.
One thing that occurred to me as I have read this and other articles, is that while his base of voters have been hoping that he will step up and address their interests - since he does not have to worry about being re-elected now - whether he addresses those interest or not, he does not have to be so concerned about whether THEY will vote for him again, either. And so far, his 'legacy' is not going to be anything to be proud of, what with Guantanamo, the NDAA, and various giveaways.
So far, I'm not impressed, and since I haven't seen any sign of bankers going to jail yet, what has changed?
We should all stay tuned and vocal.
Well, then you don't have a very good imagination, 'cause he already spent 4 years selling us out!
This time I fear that the "transformation " will be a neglect to preserve, a chipping away at, one of the most beneficial institutions Americans have enjoyed. Instead of Medicare For All it will become Medicare for fewer.
Medicare Advantage was dropped because its claims of efficiency (and eventually coverage) turned out to be nothing but a foot in the door for ever-increasing subsidy demands, which actual Medicare recipients have to pay for. It became WAY more costly than Medicare and pproved to provide nothing more than traditional Medicare in the way of actual health care results, just a way of scamming the Medicare fund for some to get free or low cost health club memberships.
What he should do now is call the Republicans' bluff. If they are so concerned about Medicare costs, why not go for a national health plan for everyone and get corporate, profit-making, medical insurance out of the picture completely? It would also put "Obamacare" on an even better track and help all Americans, not just seniors.
But the sad reality is that the Republicans are just what they have been for decades, namely interested only in business and profit for their backers, so let's not count on their support. Besides, they wouldn't want America to be "socialized" like those civilized countries anyway!
Nixon and Agnew
in '72
why change Dicks
in the middle of a screw?
He will do whatever it takes to the Liberal community to further his personal plans !
His redeeming quality seems to be his care and love for his children. In the political arena - just the opposite.
Yes.
He does NOT "cave".
When someone continually and repeatedly goes along on everything with someone else he "claims" to be opposing, it's not "caving".
It's the plan. The INTENTIONAL plan.
But even though he promised transparency there are still some people who are still unable to see through him.
Why do you think he's always grinning?
A Trip Down Memory Lane With Senator Obama
"The only bills that I've voted for, for the most part, since I've been in the Senate, were introduced by Republicans or by George Bush."
-- Senator Barack Obama @ 2min 18sec
Video of him saying it:
http://antemedius.com/content/trip-down-memory-lane-senator-obama
He suckered the people who voted for him. Intentionally. The grinning is him laughing at them
EXACTLY CORRECT!!!
What I am afraid does have a likelihood of Obama agreeing to is, means testing.
I wish that was a good choice, but it is only worthwhile if we get rid of the debt ceiling crapola, restore unemployment benefits, and pell grants. Means testing is oddly enough the usual Republican punt when they can't win an argument. But what it really does is to add layers of bureaucracy at additional cost with no benefits along with a clear path to a two tier health care system for elderly.
I really hope that someone can come up with the bone to throw the Republican dogs, since one is necessary to get legislation passed.
The bone is that there will be no cut to the military.
............
"This is a confidential document, last offer the president -- the White House made last year to Speaker Boehner to try to reach this $4 trillion grand bargain.... what it shows is a willingness to cut all kinds of things, like TRICARE, which is the sacred health insurance program for the military, for military retirees; to cut Social Security; to cut Medicare."
Document here: http://presspass.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/11/15089281-white-house-grand-bargain-offer-to-speaker-boehner-obtained-by-bob-woodward
...............
Barack Obama, October 24, 2012:
Obama laid out an astoundingly ambitious second-term agenda in an interview published Wednesday...
"It will probably be messy. It won't be pleasant," Obama told the Des Moines Register's publisher and its editor by telephone. The daily made the exchange public after the White House dropped its insistence that it be off-the-record.
...
"I am absolutely confident that we can get what is the equivalent of the grand bargain that essentially I've been offering to the Republicans for a very long time...
"We can easily meet—'easily' is the wrong word—we can credibly meet the target that the Bowles-Simpson Commission established of $4 trillion in deficit reduction, and even more in the out-years...
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-vows-debt-cutting-grand-bargain-immigration-reform-142348400--election.html
This what obama supporters approved and voted for. They won. They got what they wanted.
Along with his murdering of innocent children in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and his material support of the terrorists attacking civilians in Gaza, and now his economic terrorism against Americans.
The President of the United States is a terrorist.
Anyone who voted for and is supporting the President of the United States is a terrorist sympathizer and supporter.
I cried when they shot Medgar Evers
Tears ran down my spine
I cried when they shot Mr. Kennedy
As though I'd lost a father of mine
But Malcolm X got what was coming
He got what he asked for this time
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I go to civil rights rallies
And I put down the old D.A.R.
I love Harry and Sidney and Sammy
I hope every colored boy becomes a star
But don't talk about revolution
That's going a little bit too far
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I cheered when Humphrey was chosen
My faith in the system restored
I'm glad the commies were thrown out
of the A.F.L. C.I.O. board
I love Puerto Ricans and Negros
as long as they don't move next door
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
(to be continued)
The people of old Mississippi
Should all hang their heads in shame
I can't understand how their minds work
What's the matter don't they watch Les Crain?
But if you ask me to bus my children
I hope the cops take down your name
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I read New republic and Nation
I've learned to take every view
You know, I've memorized Lerner and Golden
I feel like I'm almost a Jew
But when it comes to times like Korea
There's no one more red, white and blue
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
I vote for the democratic party
They want the U.N. to be strong
I go to all the Pete Seeger concerts
He sure gets me singing those songs
I'll send all the money you ask for
But don't ask me to come on along
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
Once I was young and impulsive
I wore every conceivable pin
Even went to the socialist meetings
Learned all the old union hymns
But I've grown older and wiser
And that's why I'm turning you in
So love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal
and, Jello Biafra helped bring this one much more up to date....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGDT7wKvdRk
How well did hoping for change work during his first term, when he needed you to re-elect him for his second?
You got what you voted for. Deal with it. You won.
And now he's going to give Wall Street control of Social Security, as well as cut TRICARE and Medicare.
ROmeny would have been horrible. Romney would never have a hope in hell of getting away with the things Obama gets away with while people cheer him for doing things they would scream for impwachment for if a Republican tried it.
Obama inherited a huge mess from Obama. So did everyone else.
But he'll be fine. He'll aim high for 2016, for a nice well paying job on a high floor with a corner office on Wall Street from where he can look down and grin at all the starving peasants below, and an SS protected armored chauffeured limo in the basement to get him safely through the crowds at the end of the day.
I suppose you could always hold your nose and threaten to not vote for him for his next term to pressure him if he doesn't straighten up and fly right?
Oh, wait. He doesn't need your vote anymore? There is no next term? You blew your only chance because you couldn't bring yourself to threaten him with withholding your vote when it would have produced some results from him?
He's laughing at you and you're begging him to be nice? You can find sympathy in the dictionary.
Give up the excuses.
For any disaster you can always say there could be worse disasters, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a disaster.
To give him some credit though, wall street and weapons manufacturers and the insurance industry would agree with you. And do.
Obama must read drivel like this and laugh his arse off like a hyena! You are an unconscionable enabler of evil.
Quoting Michael_K:
Quoting Michael_K:
The GOP should NOT be allowed to renege on the price they AGREED TO pay for idological concessions which NEVER should have been given in the first place.
And to even agree there is a crisis is to give inappropriate gifts to a minority that already wields oppressive, corruption-base d power.
We need to get off our sofas and Barcaloungers, and STOP this madness - with extreme prejudice. Our government DOES NOT WORK.
But we digress - who is Barack Obama and what does he stand for,really? ElliotH
Answers:
1) The right spent the 1970s and 1980s building think tanks like the Heritage Foundation that spit out right-wing policy papers all the time.
2) The right built organizations that focus entirely on persuasion and messaging. The left never built that.
3) The right has "experts" who can go on at a moment's notice 24/7 to a TV show.
4) The right knows how to make their positions seem reasonable to most people.
5) This is why, even when Republicans lose elections, their ideas still manage to win most of the time.
I wouldn't be surprised if Obama caves in, but there is a greater lesson here to be learned. The answer isn't anger, but rather organization. The answer is developing a movement with an effective messaging strategy that operates like a well-run corporation. The key is to develop parallel organizations that focus solely on messaging and persuasion.
They have plotted unceasingly ever since to control the government as a "vast, right wing conspiracy," in the haunting words of Hillary Rodham Clinton.
The cabal, now termed the neo-cons, appear to have won the hearts and minds of close to half the American people, 47% anyway.
It is almost as if the Republican Party is the South and the elections are the Civil War. Win or lose, it doesn't matter. Somehow they plan to take back the things they perceived given up by virtue of losing that devastating war.
Single payer would cost everyone at least fifty percent tax rates. Now I know that some math illiterates in New York City would yell at that statement.
So let's do the math. New York has city state and federal taxes. comes to about fifty percent WITHOUT HEALTH CARE AND COLLEGE AID.
A decent healthcare policy costs about 13-15k a year for a family plan? for a 100k a year salary that is 15% more or sixty five k in expenses. And how about college costs?
In those terrible socialist countries, health and college is picked up by the state and that is why their taxes are so high.
As a retired teacher it kills me how uneducated the America public is, and how words like socialism (sometime we already have in tons of things like free schools, libraries, s.s medicare, and medicaid, fire departments, etc.) scare the uninformed.
And please stop with the Jill thing. Nadar didn't hurt us enough?
We need single payer, but the public option was a good compromise.
And one more thing, a global economy means that many millions are now going to settle for slave wages. That or starve. That is reality for the next ten years. Our educational system failed us, and the "charter" schools stink for the most part. For every good one I can give you ten public schools who are as good or better.
We didn't DEMAND Jill and we GOT a corporatist. We were suckered by EXACTLY your "Nader" claim.
We need to smarten up and MAKE IT HAPPEN - ALL of it.
-IT HAS TO START SOMEWHERE-
and it can't happen AT ALL without voting your EXACT values, because "compromise' is a tool of your enemies - BUSINESS, more by definition and opportunity than by its design.
Its DESIGN has to be changed and that means Flushing the current system entirely. The Occupy movement has show us it CAN be built from the ground - BUT the police state has to be vanquished first. And yes, just as in the union revolutions in he 20's, it WILL cost blood, unless we PAY the lesser price first - the one you fear. We have to accept that politics - THIS kind- will have to be the entire OCCUPATION of this generation, FULL TIME in the streets.
President Obama, we all beg you to keep your promises to us and to uphold the values that got you re-elected, those values are anti-Republican values. (Republican values are really Rape-Public values as we see time and again, not just on the national level with the bogus "fiscal cliff" non-crisis, but also in the sneak attack on labor and laborers in Michigan.)
President Obama, stand strong! You have all the leverage. Your opponents have NO leverage!
Bob Locke
Sacramento CA
.....................
It is not Obama's fault that even though he promised transparency there are still some people who are still unable to see through him.
...
on July 27[2011]...
At a press conference held by members of the House Out of Poverty Caucus Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich), the second most senior member of the U.S. House, was pointed in his criticism of the White House regarding jobs and cuts to Social Security the President put on the table last week.
“We’ve got to educate the American people at the same time we educate the President of the United States. The Republicans, Speaker Boehner or Majority Leader Cantor did not call for Social Security cuts in the budget deal. The President of the United States called for that,” Conyers, who has served in the House since 1965, said. “My response to him is to mass thousands of people in front of the White House to protest this,” Conyers said strongly.
http://antemedius.com/content/it-not-obamas-fault
Until Obama realizes that the people who elected him care. We want Peace, and freedom from federal raids on medical marijuana distributors sanctioned in the states where they operate.
And, Yes, you must keep Social Security and Medicare in tact--as cornerstone legislation by our civilized nation. Indeed, we would like to expand, extend and strengthen the program by re-making it as Medicare for All. It's the right thing to do. Its what Americans want.
We, the people, must take a stand--form a Ring Around the White House until President Obama does what the people want--not what John Boehner and Grover Norquist want.
The demonstrations against the Vietnam War had a profound effect on LBJ. Obama needs to be made to feel the pressure.
Then look at jillstein.org/i ssues and the OCCUPY websites.
There is no question THAT'S what America wants. We need to stop wishing to call ourselves "conservative" or "Moderate"
There is nothing "moderate" about what corporations will do, have done, and are doing; to get ALL your money and lay complete waste to the world just for this quarter's profits.
Don't surround the White House and Congress, and demand "SOCIALISM" and you will GET a dictatorial, Fascist, Feudal Corporatist Police State -
oh, wait - It's already HERE!
WHOEVER....LIB. OR CONSERV. ---- READ THE BOOK "THE AMATEUR" BY ED KLEIN
FACTUAL, ACCURATE, AND CAUSES THE MEDIA TO AVOID IT.
And my question: There also must be programs that can be cut, aside from so called entitlements. Can someone suggest possibilities?
Defense- 50% (end contracting)
The OMB has found that in reality, privatization essentially doubles (1.8X) costs.
http://www.ombwatch.org/node/11865
I just cannot play the little game. If your life does not depend directly, 100%, on a policy that Obama supports, then go ahead and spend your time and energy that way. I guess. But you need to think about people whose life and health and suffering and death depend on those policies.
There is no question here.
He is already screwing liberals….at every turn.
Just look at the people he is appointing and look at the backing of things or corporations like Monsanto or Keystone. His hesitation at opposing Keystone surely indicates that he will approve it, Not closing Guantanamo, not supporting alternative energy, drone warfare, supporting more intrusions into our privacy, etc, etc.
Obama, it seems, is all about screwing liberals. And I voted for him twice.
Just rec'd notice of what you wrote. As a conservative, I really try to keep open mind. Did not vote for him either time....worked against him - AND - his beliefs.
As a Liberal who voted for him, you MUST read "The Amateur" by Klein. It is not filled with emotionally charged epithets. It is a factual account of how he methodically and premeditatedly "screwed liberals" including Oprah herself !!!!!!
In the end. Everyone left and right will be disillusioned with his anti-constituti onal actions.
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