Excerpt: "We might ask ourselves how we would be reacting if Iraqi commandos landed at George W. Bush's compound, assassinated him, and dumped his body in the Atlantic. Uncontroversially, his crimes vastly exceed bin Laden's, and he is not a 'suspect' but uncontroversially the 'decider' who gave the orders to commit the 'supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole' (quoting the Nuremberg Tribunal) for which Nazi criminals were hanged: the hundreds of thousands of deaths, millions of refugees, destruction of much of the country, the bitter sectarian conflict that has now spread to the rest of the region."
Portrait, Noam Chomsky, 06/15/09. (photo: Sam Lahoz)
My Reaction to Osama bin Laden's Death
07 May 11
We might ask ourselves how we would be reacting if Iraqi commandos landed at George W. Bush's compound, assassinated him, and dumped his body in the Atlantic.
t's increasingly clear that the operation was a planned assassination, multiply violating elementary norms of international law. There appears to have been no attempt to apprehend the unarmed victim, as presumably could have been done by 80 commandos facing virtually no opposition - except, they claim, from his wife, who lunged towards them. In societies that profess some respect for law, suspects are apprehended and brought to fair trial. I stress "suspects." In April 2002, the head of the FBI, Robert Mueller, informed the press that after the most intensive investigation in history, the FBI could say no more than that it "believed" that the plot was hatched in Afghanistan, though implemented in the UAE and Germany. What they only believed in April 2002, they obviously didn't know 8 months earlier, when Washington dismissed tentative offers by the Taliban (how serious, we do not know, because they were instantly dismissed) to extradite bin Laden if they were presented with evidence - which, as we soon learned, Washington didn't have. Thus Obama was simply lying when he said, in his White House statement, that "we quickly learned that the 9/11 attacks were carried out by al Qaeda."
Nothing serious has been provided since. There is much talk of bin Laden's "confession," but that is rather like my confession that I won the Boston Marathon. He boasted of what he regarded as a great achievement.
There is also much media discussion of Washington's anger that Pakistan didn't turn over bin Laden, though surely elements of the military and security forces were aware of his presence in Abbottabad. Less is said about Pakistani anger that the US invaded their territory to carry out a political assassination. Anti-American fervor is already very high in Pakistan, and these events are likely to exacerbate it. The decision to dump the body at sea is already, predictably, provoking both anger and skepticism in much of the Muslim world.
We might ask ourselves how we would be reacting if Iraqi commandos landed at George W. Bush's compound, assassinated him, and dumped his body in the Atlantic. Uncontroversially, his crimes vastly exceed bin Laden's, and he is not a "suspect" but uncontroversially the "decider" who gave the orders to commit the "supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole" (quoting the Nuremberg Tribunal) for which Nazi criminals were hanged: the hundreds of thousands of deaths, millions of refugees, destruction of much of the country, the bitter sectarian conflict that has now spread to the rest of the region.
There's more to say about [Cuban airline bomber Orlando] Bosch, who just died peacefully in Florida, including reference to the "Bush doctrine" that societies that harbor terrorists are as guilty as the terrorists themselves and should be treated accordingly. No one seemed to notice that Bush was calling for invasion and destruction of the US and murder of its criminal president.
Same with the name, Operation Geronimo. The imperial mentality is so profound, throughout western society, that no one can perceive that they are glorifying bin Laden by identifying him with courageous resistance against genocidal invaders. It's like naming our murder weapons after victims of our crimes: Apache, Tomahawk ... It's as if the Luftwaffe were to call its fighter planes "Jew" and "Gypsy."
There is much more to say, but even the most obvious and elementary facts should provide us with a good deal to think about.
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Comments
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While I share your outrage about the lack of due process for the evicted and the homeless, the implication that wrongdoing in one sector somehow justifies wrongdoing in another is logically flawed, not to mention ethically. Everyone deserves due process. If it does not work for the worst of us, it cannot be depended upon for the best of us.
Wow, that "innocent till proven guilty" DOES seem to work! Perhaps we should try it more often...
Al Qaida and Clinton worked very well together during Bosnia and Kosovo, sending moujahedin volunteers, arming them, etc.
Have you heard that four 9/11 terrorists were Bosnia war veterans? Majority of Madrid and London bombers also, plus a few were in KLA!!! Btw, bin Laden was a proud carrier of Bosnian passport.... Things are, obviously, much dirtier that we can even imagine.
Quoting countrygirl:
Quoting countrygirl:
Quoting countrygirl:
Yes, He speaks the minds of millions of middle Eastern people , Who have been tortured, killed, terrorized, vanished , executed, exiled by all of United State's appointed dictators and their dictatorship governments and Islamic fundamentalists creatures like KHOMEINI, TALIBAN, ..
US does not bring any democracy and freedome to anyone and anywhere except war, horrors , killing millions of indecent people. So no one believes all fabricated CIA's shows ...
You must agree that Mr. bin-laden had the where-withall to deni and defend himself in a court of law, being that he was a member of one of the most wealthy and influential families in the entire world. I can't say and I don't think any body can, that he was the sole planner of 9/11. I would bet that he was a the bankroller of the project and the Leader of Al-Queda at the time. He could have talked to any number of journalists and denied the alligations against him. He could have hired the most talented defence lawyers money can buy. And he didn't.
A not guilty verdict; even a guilty verdict in the World-Court at the Hague would have done more damage to American influence through out the world then any number of terrorist acts.
Finally Dr. Chomsky, with all due respect, on this one, I think you got it wrong...
I guess we could start with Wall Street and the Bankers since they have at last as much money to defend themselves with as Osama bin Laden had. If we play our cards right, we could probably get rid of the DoJ completely and save a lot of tax dollars.
And since you seem to be such a great judge of guilt, I'm sure having studied all the evidence connecting bin Laden to 9/11 (something the FBI has not even done yet), we could appoint you to give a thumbs up or thumbs down as to who gets executed.
Nothing serious has been provided since. There is much talk of binLaden's "confession," but that is rather like my confession that I won the Boston Marathon. He boasted of what he regarded as a great achievement.
Quoting chris eberle:
On May 23 2006 OBL released a message stating among other things "I am certain of what I say, because I was responsible for entrusting the 19 brothers -- Allah have mercy upon them -- with those raids, and I did not assign brother Zacarias to be with them on that mission,"
That's a lot more than "boast[ing] of what he regarded as a great achievement."
Chomsky blew it.
Deal.
are you in the market to buy any real estate?
Just as a take his statement from Oct 29 2004 that "as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children."
And that "we had agreed with the Commander-Gener al Muhammad Ataa, Allah have mercy on him, that all the operations should be carried out within 20 minutes, before Bush and his administration notice."
Both messages were widely reported when they were released.
Chomsky (and you) seemed to have missed them.
Another, these are not police men trying to apprehend citizens but soldiers storming a seemingly well defensed compound hiding the most wanted man in the world. Making this a capture mission sounds risky to say the least.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So, with all their state-of-the-ar t equipment, these guys didn't have tasers...or concussion grenades...or tear gas? The last thing "our" government wanted was for OBL to be taken alive. "Dead men don't tell tales."
So, what decides when the law should be applied? When you are directly affected? On days when your morning coffee is not great? When it is raining? .....
The trial itself would have done the damage, regardless of the verdict. That is why OBL was assassinated. An open trial would have exposed many more crimes than those of al Qaeda.
The U.S. has already done more damage to American influence in the world than bin Laden ever dreamed of maybe causing. I say 'maybe' because there is no proof of anything, other than what our own government has outlined.
The U.S. has wantonly assassinated many world leaders after their usefulness was over, or because the government deemed another leader much more willing to do their bidding. Some of those leaders then proceeded to kill thousands and the U.S. let it happen.
Just how much credibility does the U.S. really have?
The situation is too complex and deadly.
What's troubling about this response is the apparent presumption that the US could not have proven a case against Bin Laden successfully. If that is the case (and I am not at all sure I agree that it would have been) then simply killing him outright would be even LESS legally or morally justified, right?
Moreover, if US "influence throughout the world" would suffer due to an inability to successfully prosecute and punish Osama Bin Laden, perhaps that ought to be a signal that we need to reconsider our presence in the world. People danced in the streets on 9-11 for a reason. I do not for one second think such conduct is defensible. But having been to a number of third world countries and seen US military and global corporate interests at work, I can readily understand how the resentment engendered by those intervening forces might produce the reactions we saw. The argument that people resent us for our freedoms is simplistic and unfounded. They resent us for the abrogation of THEIR freedoms.
The mafia usually
pursues 'justice' by dumping bodies in the sea and wherever. The drug lords may dump you in a land fill. But really, is this the kind of 'justice' that we should emulate? What if every criminal in a jail cell invokes this definition of justice in their defense?
I never expected a lawyer to equate revenge with 'justice'- in such an unprofessional manner. What' s on the curriculum in law school?
I now know that Prof. (Emeritus) Chomsky hast willfully conspired to make me believe the incredible and laughably false stories regarding the livelihood, whereabouts, and activities of one "Osama Bin Laden", fmr. US/CIA ally in the 1980s Afghan-Soviet war, from 2001-2011.
I know not his motives for this undertaking, and do not pretend otherwise. While I do not particularly like being fooled, I take fully responsibility for my own false beliefs.
O.K. - we assassinated the old guy - did not thank him for his glorious young days as Reagan freedom fighter when he was killing Afghan invaders (Soviets) - but his death NOW did not change anything. We are wasted in Afghanistan and Iraq - and waste goes on.
IThe logical course would have been to instruct the commandos to capture Obama alive at all costs, and to kill any witnesses that saw him captured.
Then the logical thing to do would be to dump a bag of garbage into the Atlantic, in view of the crew of the ship, and announce to the world that Osama was dead and buried.
Then the logical thing would be to interrogate Bin Laden using all the horrible techniques developed at Guantanamo, with no knowledge or criticism from the rest of the world.
Why kill the most important intelligence goldmine in US history?
I believe a very unhappy Bin Laden is sitting in a room somewhere and a bag of garbage is at the bottom of the Atlantic.
ive it a break
It's interesting... A few days ago I gave the Bush assassination example to a college language class that i teach, and several students' response was that that would be fine with them because Bush deserves it (but that Bin Laden deserved it too). What to make of this new, War on Terror-infused logic of liberal equivalences that bypasses the rule of law altogether? Almost makes me nostalgic for the Enlightenment.
What an excellent point ! Why kill Osama at all if he really is the mastermind of international terrorism ? What better way to use this opportunity? You sir, have a brain !!
Quoting chris eberle:
Well I believe there are two Bin Ladens. There is the Bin Laden with an oval face and another one with a round facial structure. Have another look, folks.
GG
The Towers did not fall from aircraft and jet fuel, another obvious fabrication. Nano Thermite found in the dust along with the volume of molten metal pooled in the footprint prove planned professional demolition. Any other assertions are smoke and mirrors.
Admit it, you're a nutter yourself, and a fake, Mr. Ad hominem.
And to be perfectly honest, I would have no problem if they'd done the same thing to George W. Bush. They'd have saved us a hell of a lot of heartache, and he richly deserves the same fate.
One can only imagine how high the Navy Seals hold President Bush.
I can only imagine what the Navy Seals would like to do with someone like Perilous.
But to demand 'legal' proof? That would let off half of the terrorists in the world - especially the masterminds and behind the scene planners. There can only be circumstantial evidence - which is not accepted in most courts.
I am no fan of George Bush, but by no stretch of imagination can one equate him with Osama bin Laden.
Are you implying that Osama is not a terrorist, since that too has not been proven in any court of law!
By the way, murderers and other criminals are routinely tried and convicted based on circumstantial evidence. You apparently don't know much about our court system.
Osama bin Laden was never tried in a court of law for 9/11 partly because that incident wasn't treated as a criminal act (as it should have been) but as an act of war.
It's on video tape - it was distributed in written form - and he acted on it - and then he took credit for it.
It doesn't.
The acts of bin Laden were nothing more than criminal - he wasn't an enemy commander, he wasn't a leader of a country, he was just a criminal. Hell, he wasn't even Goldfinger (although I still have to laugh at one drawing of bin Laden's underground lair that had everything save the shark tank).
And we STILL have a policy of "innocent until proven guilty" - or do we just do away with that as well?
Thinking that way, is akin to being a birther, or a 9/11 inside job conspirator nut.
huh? every jury trial in the u.s. the judge instructs that circumstantial evidence is just as good as direct evidence
"to demand 'legal' proof" is the bedrock of our democratic justice system. It is not reserved for some, it is for all. Justice is blind, remember?
Okay... 'nuf pain...
You are not the only person to declare there is only circumstantial evidence concerning certain terrorists, which makes it all the more likely that the U.S. government can name their terrorists and assassinate them even publicly - including U.S. citizens.
Oh, sorry, that's right - that has already been done.
The word "terrorist" is pretty meaningless these days. Terrorism is a method that most parties to the current war engage in. Bin Laden advocated, planned, and financed violent acts against the US and its puppet governments around the world. He admits to that. So that makes him a terrorist. But he's a small scale terrorist. Bush, Cheney, Obama and the whole US military are terrorists on a truly huge scale. Terrorism is only a method, and everyone uses it. You'd have to renounce violence as a solution to problems in order not to be a terrorist.
There are differences, however. The 4th Geneva Conventions recognizes the right of colonized or oppressed people to use violence to throw off their tyrants. The US is occupying or at least controls the governments in many Muslim nations, esp. Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Afghanistan, Iraq. These people are legitimate on the grounds of self-defense and self-determinat ion in using violence against their oppressors. The oppressors are never legitimate in using violence against the oppressed. In some sense, bin Laden was a freedom fighter. That's what Reagan called him (indirectly) when he fought with the Mujahadeen in the Afghanistan in the 80s. Bin Laden wants the US out of Saudi Arabia and the Royal Family out of power. That's a liberation struggle.
I'm surprised that no one has said anything about Timothy McVey
dintinguished professor. I believe there is ample evidence that Osama BinLaden
was a key conspirator behind the attack
on the Twin Towers on 9/11. BinLaden did not give those 3,000 victims
the benefit of a court trial to determine
"guilt" before their "assassnation".
Tit for tat. If the evidence was good enough for Pres. Obama to authorize the SEAL action, it is good
enough for me. Fanatical Islamic Jihad does not compare with Nazi Germany any more than it does Vietnam, and its actiions and perpetrators did not
deserve a Nurenberg trial!
But I don't believe Chomsky is saying that Osama is not an evil terrorist. The comparison is there to show that Osama and Bush are both evil terrorists.
You made the cardinal sin of meaning to say Bosch instead Bush in the critical line in the fifth paragraph of your piece . I would not normally make such comments as it is not done to raise this as a issue . However those that are copywriters will and wont forgive you. They expect more of a world famous linguist. They expect you to be word perfect.After all the typos could confuse people with no idea of context.Just kidding.LOL
What an heroic beautiful human being!
The U.S. Supremes' decision to give corporations 1st amendment rights has and will continue to allow them through their puppets getting elected (I believe the Koch brothers support GOP) ... to become KING of the world.
You know how the flu spreads? Corruption spreads as easily -- and the take over will not be pretty bc there will be nobody to rescue us and kill the King (Koch brothers),
One last chance in 2012 - vote Dem (I know Obame did this assassination to bin-ladin) -- but "W" and gang are worse (and that is my opinion)
IF you are a believer in the word of LAW, then you have no other option, to allow the LAW to run it's course, that is, INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY IN A COURT OF LAW BY THEIR PEERS. I'd put money down, should YOU ever find yourself in a defensive position, you'd be yelling loudly for the rule of law to apply to yourself, I bet.
Under such laws, you CANNOT condemn anyone with circumstantial evidence, and in the case of Osama, even that was very weak indeed.
tortured, then the U.S. turns around and does exactly the same thing, only WORSE.
Whilst still, loudly proclaiming to hold the moral high ground.
Clearly, events of the past ten years, and these latest events have demonstrated very clearly indeed. THERE IS NO RULE OF LAW ANYMORE, ANYWHERE.PERIOD.
Your last question implying Osama is not a terrorist, can also be clearly applied to the Western nations waging terrorist wars against defenseless nations for pure greed, when an individual from such a nation makes a stand, he's called a terrorist ? EXCUSE ME ?
What was I saying about LAW no longer applying World wide ?
Guy DeBord reminded us: "The society based on modern industry is not accidentally or superficially spectacular, it is fundamentally spectaclist." How much these events seem part of a society of the spectacle. Osama a spectacular icon?
DeBord: "The spectacle obliterates
[...] the boundaries between true and false by repressing all directly lived truth beneath the real presence of the falsehood maintained by the organization of appearances."
bopsecrets.org/SI/debord/index.htm
Our job is to get beyond that.
High-minded intellectuals tend to put me off mainly because like their counterparts, they tend to simply pass judgments and present everything in simplistic black and white, semantically crafted terms.
I read this article, and although with the exception of the Geronimo analogy, I already knew what you had to say.
As for myself, I probably would have made the same decision as Obama.
I for one would wave my flag and dance in the streets for weeks should the traitor Bush be given justice!
Has anyone ever considered what the reaction of our fellow americans would be if a group of "them" sneaked into the "mansion" of one of "ours," and murdered the unarmed person in his home in front of his wife and children? Let's pretend it was Bush, lolling around in his pjs and robe, imbibing of course and watching the cartoons, with Laura in attendance, and all of a sudden, an armed group of avengers (relatives or countrymen of the victims of this mass murderer) popped in and cut his throat--then dumped his body in the castle moat. Oh my oh my--!
No "dancing on the grave" in this scenario, no matter how well-deserved his "assassination, " especially in the hearts and psyche of the survivors of the hundreds of thousands of innocent victims left in his wake. He's one of "ours" after all.
WHY are americans so blind? What goes around comes around. If it is a necessary strategy for us to torture, bomb to ashes their people, murder their leaders-- in order to steal their resources, then it is perfectly permissible for them to do likewise to OURS. And we have LOTS for them to purloin...LOTS!
Someday the shoe will be on the other foot. It has already begun.
This is what drives the affect and idea behind some of what al-Qaeda is, represents. It's the political reality Americans fail to understand.
“Come and see our overflowing morgues and find our little ones for us...
You may find them in this corner or the other, a little hand poking out, pointing out at you...
Come and search for them in the rubble of your "surgical" air raids, you may find a little leg or a little head...pleading for your attention.
Come and see them amassed in the garbage dumps, scavenging morsels of food...
Half of them are under-nourished or dying from disease. Cholera, dysentery, infections of all sorts....
Under nourished does not mean on a diet like your fat little kids. It means not having food to eat. [...]
Come and see, come....
See them being trafficked, raped, sold and "finally" killed by your brave boys. The "final solution." Remember that one ? It was not so long ago...Except this time it is carried out by the "greatest Democracy on earth."
Come and see, come....”
It should be plastered on all the windows and windshields of the powers that be.
But then, ... ya gotta HAVE a heart..........
Thank you for this article, for every honest human being is this analysis so clear and hopeful. We can only hope that many peaceful citizens of your country will stand up and. And make it clear to the Warlords that its enough.
With kind regards
Willy Loots
The gleeful reactions from J.Q.Public reflect a lack of thought...bin Laden may be gone - who can really say at this point, conclusively - but our own 'sins', of omission as well as commission, are not hanging round his neck as he allegedly sinks to the bottom of the sea like some aquatic sacrificial goat....there is no Get out Of Kharma Free Card...we WILL reap the harvest we sow.
What's happening inside our country is among other problems, BIG OIL. So big, that our government is helpless to control it. So big, that when the Taliban denied it access to build a pipeline from the east side of the Caspian Sea to the Indian ocean, the oil companies got the US to go to war so they could build it.
Any efforts Al-Qaeda makes to stop them are futile. The war in Afghanistan will go on and on until that pipeline is built. Or until the US economy collapses, whichever happens first.
And in the meantime thousands upon thousands of people will die.
http://sajepress.com
From slaughter to mass murder to a war on lies and for nothing to the killing of a pregnant woman. The perpetrator is below human absolution.
What is the "war on lies and for nothing"? You're saying fighting a war on lies (for nothing?) deserves the death penalty? Please explain what you mean.
China is the only bulwark against the West although it's leadership is also tainted by dictatorial control of its own people and its own interests WAKE -UP and smell the Coffee bro.
But the US has a policy of "American Exceptionalism. " According to this, America is the exception to the rule of law. It and its leader are not subject to the laws or the moral arguments that everyone else is. This principle seems to satisfy many right wingers or America firsters. But it is a clear confession that the US is a lawless and rogue state. I am sure that the reactionaries in the US like it that way. It is just the rest of the world -- 97% of the world's people -- who don't like it.
What was the reaction of the Arab world?
They smartly held hostages gotten through kidnapping, etc. and offered them in trade. We have done that throughout history.
However, it is now America's stance that we do not negotiate with terrorists.
So, put yourself in the President's position. Does he want his daughter's kidnapped and held for trade for Bin Laden? This was certainly taken into consideration when giving the execution order. What would you do?
Noam Noam No No. The former is recognition of heroism and strength whereas the latter would have been dispective under those circumstances.
JUSTICE SERVED:)
The only reason I can think of for him to make this bizarre statement is to protect Israel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoDqDvbgeXM
BUT if it was the ONLY crime these people ever committed then it would be a big deal but they have committed and continue to commit crimes so let's work on stopping the next ones instead of tying ourselves in knots worrying about the previous crimes.
If you think he would be lying to protect Israel you haven't read much Chomsky. Sheesh!
Neither of these attacks were defensive in nature, they were wholly offensive and designed to conflict maximum deadly force.
Bin Laden was assassinated as a result of his decision making while Bush enjoys retired life on the ranch where life is surely restful without having to tote a chainsaw about to create a photo-op.
Only partial eye for an eye justice has been met at this point; the remainder of justice due will never be balanced.
History truly is written by the victors.
You can always make comparisons with "worse" people, but that is never a legitimate defense.
Chomsky is obviously not the only one, but in his arguments he always seems to work backwards from his conclusion.
P.S. If they print this, I promise to make a donation to RSN. I'm not a crook,Bob!
I would argue that the U.S. should have conducted a special operations "mini war" initially after 9/11/01 to capture or kill Al Quada members. I have reason to believe the CIA had the intelligence all along to make this a very productive "counter operation". It would have fed the frenzied citizens with their desired blood. It would have also prevented the bloodshed of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans.(And, of course, a few thousand American soldiers.)
Perhaps Bin Laden's death will expedite the end of this empirical war. I believe that may be the intent.
No, what this looks like is Obama being given a huge boost towards re-election by the war establishment in exchange for even further expansion. And the notion of "armed might" and global intervention unfettered by law has been reinforced into the bargain. A "win-win" deal for all concerned...
Hitler, George W Bush, Bin Laden, Pol Pot, etc. rose to power because people let them play on their fears and prejudices.
Why is it that the execution and dismemberment of resistors to state tyranny and injustice such as Spartacus and William Wallace or the crucifixion of Jesus is seen as unjust and reprehensible yet it is acceptable treatment for Bin Laden?
Rather than being informed by fear, perhaps we should locate our response in principle. As people and societies we can't progress beyond our murdering ways if we can't see the fallacy in most of our fears.
I bet that all who support the assasination would be the first to cry foul if Obama ordered the assasination of one of their family members, with or without apparent justification.
As Ghandi said, "An eye for an eye leaves the world blind."
This can only be interpreted as hegemonic hybris. First shoot - then ask questions! Or kick those guys in the ass who dare to ask questions.
In fact, the USA is not even trusting its own constitutional laws - not to speak of its fundamental religious beliefs.
By the way: It is not christian, to order or even celebrate the assassination of a human being - be it a christian, a muslem or a hindu.
I conclude: We have drifted far far apart - Europe and the USA.
You can't actually just claim that your points are obvious; you have to prove it.
According to the lancet, a leading medical journal in Britain using data collected by Johns Hopkins University 650,000 Iraqis dead, many woman and children.
Our forces lost under Bush in Iraq exceeded 4,000.
9/11 2,996 died by the attrpocious attack and continuing cancer deaths are attributable to mercury posioning of rescue personal and those that inhaled contaminants.
By the numbers you can see the ease at which Chomsky can make his argument. We did use cluster bombs, white phosphorus bunker busters, and denuclated artillery shells all throughout the campaign certain to have systematically murdered civilian populations. Video evidence from Falluja alone is horrific. We can only imagine what went on not captured on tape. The recountings of attrocities are endless, and they come from both our beleagured troops and the surviving Iraqi population.
Finally, here is something to ponder: soon after the towers fell the evidence was hurriedly carted away and destroyed before it could be examined and similarly OBL's body was quickly disposed of before dispassionate investigators could examine it to determine if in fact the body was that of the infamous OBL. We are simply told something and we are expected to believe it. Forget that we have a brain and senses to examine. As a people we were lied to about WMDs being in Iraq. We were simply told by "our leaders" that the reason why "we" had to attack and invade Iraq was because Al Qadea was in Iraq and there were WMD cached there. And even when it was admitted by the Bush Administration to have been a fabrication many Americans continue to believe that there were actually WMDs there! What a shame.
Even Tony Blair went down for admitting lying..
As i wrote earlier we need to start watching documentaries and read more independent journalism.. What you will see/read is not far from the truth!
Bush on the other hand is on a wanted list in some European countries and other countries around the world and had to cancel several trips last one to Switzerland few months ago. This guy should be a comedian seriously he has the face for a start. A former president of the US cancels trips because is on a wanted list.. really funny!
I think B.Laden knew too much (former CIA agent) and the time was right to "go".
About 9/11... because a lot of people still believe whatever the media shows to them, an everyday brainwash for them, the people behind 9/11 was B.Laden or some other religious group AND an inside job. This could not have been done without the help from the US "puppeteers". An excuse for invading 2 countries that in the future could help for an easier IRAN invasion (look map), Iraq's oil and the precious land of Afghanistan for the so important pipelines and maybe the new middle east-Asia map but for that i'm sceptical..
Thanks for your time guys..
and before you start "plunging" my comment and facts take some time and watch a few documentaries out there or read some independent journalism..
That's my guess too. We couldn't afford to put him on trial and let him spill all the beans. I was always very suspicious about the almost immediate execution of Saddam Huessein. I suspect the U.S. ordered it. He really had a lot to tell us that our country did not want brought to light.
It makes no sense to kill an unarmed man surrounded by family with dozens of NavySeals there.
During the Fall of the Roman Empire toothless old men would be sent it to fight ferocious lions as the crowds roared with glee while the air was heavy with the smell of blood
Dead?
We have no idea when he died, why he died, or if he died.
We do know that a failing empire bypasses the rules, skips due process, thereby making a big show de force with a gangland style hit. A big production for a people desensitized by the 3 ring electronic propaganda circus.
Have we lost our ability to analyze information?
Have we lost our humanity?
What we have here is yet another elitist serving flunky.
Chomsky's entire essay was critical of President Obama and the operation to kill bin Laden; I guess you didn't read it. And if by "change" you mean actually fighting terrorism by using intelligence to track down and take out terrorist leaders instead of invading a nation that had nothing to do with 9/11, killing a million innocent civilians and proving to the Muslim world that everything OBL said about the United States is true, then yes, this is precisely the change I voted for.
It should have been CIA/Special Ops from the get-go.
And a captured bin Laden would have been an impossible pain in the ass, creating a threat to Americans everywhere.
And now Osama bin Laden, a man who (if he had been brought to trial) might just have been able to shed some light upon the darkness that surrounds the mysterious events of that day has been unceremoniously executed.
(To be continued)
Silence is Deception’s most precious ally and Deception is the very Father of Tyranny.
As for legal grounds for extradition OBL (along with Muhammad Ateef) were wanted for embassy attacks prior to 9/11. Also OBL declarations of responsibility for the 9/11 attacks are not limited to the videotaped "confession" from 2002 but include any number of messages the last being his declaration that Moussaoui had nothing to do with 9/11 and that he was in a position to know to know this.
Bottom line: the bad guy is dead.
Now let's get the hell out of Iraq and Afghanistan while the getting is still good!
Well evidently you weren't looking too carefully. In his public statements he made it clear he sought a restoration of the Caliphate and his ideal was Saladin. (See "Messages to the World" edited by Bruce Lawrence, which collects OBL's statements from 1994 to 2003.)
.. Bring 'em on.
Please do not insult intellectuals by describing yourself as one. Self praise is no praise at all. No self respecting intellectual would choose to be in your company Kumar.
While few will mind the death of bin Laden, the way this was apparently carried out sets a frightening precedent.
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikileaks_obtains_10_years_of_messages,_interviews_from_Osama_bin_Laden_translated_by_CIA
"Following the latest explosions in the United States, some Americans are pointing the finger at me, but I deny that because I have not done it. The United States has always accused me of these incidents which have been caused by its enemies. Reiterating once again, I say that I have not done it, and the perpetrators have carried this out because of their own interest," said bin Laden on September 16, 2001, just five days after the attacks.
Bin Laden also states that he was living in Afghanistan at the time of the attacks and that "I have held talks with His Eminence Amir ol-Momenin [Taleban leader Mola Mohammad Omar Mojahed], who does not allow such acts to be carried out from Afghanistan's territory." Again on September 28, 2001 in an interview with Karachi Ummat, bin Laden denies any involvement with the attacks and further denied that al-Qaeda had anything to do with plotting and carrying out the attacks."
http://english.aljazeera.net/archive/2004/11/200849163336457223.html
On May 23rd 2006 he went further by saying he personally assigned the 19 hijackers
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/05/23/binladen.tape/index.html
I had an exchange with Dr. Chomsky years ago regarding abortion. He refused to even define what an abortion was (is)!!
He simply stated that it was irrelevant to do so!! Yet he can delve into the apparent comlexities of geopolitics making definitive statments.
As our government has offered the world zero evidence that they just killed bin Laden and then claimed to dump his body in the sea before anyone from the international press could verify the kill, I choose not to believe this little story and I am surprised that Chomsky, if not the American people, is so gullible. We have been lied to many times about the events of 9/11 and have yet to have a real investigation of the crime, why believe one more facet of this fable?
He is dead, move on and let's fix the real problems...econ omy, terrorism, aren't those related?
Now it is Osama Bin Laden.
Wonder who will be number three ?
Muammar Gadaffi perhaps !
The American cowboys are doing just fine.
No secret tunnels and booby traps meant that if a joint US Pakistani team had decided to search every mansion in Pakistan they never would have suspected he had been there. A tied up bin Laden in a crowded helicopter possibly trying to push out of the helicopter and/or push one of the others out, as the helicopter was trying to avoid bullets from the ground and perusing planes would be problematic.
However I am disappointed he’s dead for a reason I haven’t heard elsewhere. Humans tend to honor the dead. In a prison that looked like a hotel room, with video, suffering fellow jehadists going to bed with a suicide belt on would have started to be jealous of the mansion and the prison.
I am glad Charles Mansion is still alive, though I hate his dream of helter-skelter, I think bin Laden’s dream is closer to Mansion’s than bin Laden’s supporters or distractions realize.
The cheering isn’t a blow for the peace movement except as a self-fulfilling prophecy. For more reasons why please see,
http://readersupportednews.org/pm-section/21-21/5878-a-new-change-to-build-toward-peace-before-bankruptcy
Assassinating Bin Ladin in this grotesque way was eye opening for many Americans but in line with the values of the Bin Laden followers and in many of the Middle East territories at large. Denying women basic human rights and living by ancient out of touch societal values, many parts of the Middle East live by the sword. It is regrettable that in the war on so called terror, the USA has embraced the same rudimentary values as its enemy, but short of withdrawing from the conflict, it is necessary. It’s hardly worth your distinguished reputation to write about such old news.
Also, the comparison with killing George Bush and dumping him in the ocean is misleading. The purported reason for dumping Osama in the ocean was to be in accordance with Muslim law so supposedly Muslims won't see it as an offensive act.
I am sorry that you lost a family member. Your FEELINGS are natural & understandable but your REASONING is skewed buy those feelings. The magnitude of a crime is not a rationale for lynching.
President Obama is the one continuing the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and starting a war in Lybia.
President Obama is the one that ordered Seal Unit 6 to infiltrate a sovereign nation and assassinate Osama Bin Laden.
I would oppose such an action, as well as such an analogy as ridiculous. Apparently the hate-filled liberal wing has no problem with violent rhetoric to imagine the death of an ex-President. How is this violent rhetoric at least not as bad as putting a picture of crosshairs on a state map?
I like to think that Noam Chomsky is tickling our funny bone.
1. Where can he be detained while awaiting trial? There are enormous security issues:
a. You have to make sure that he doesn’t kill himself, which he would probably try to do. He can’t be seen by his compatriots being paraded around in chains, so extreme care would have to be taken so he couldn’t kill himself
b. You have to protect him from the militants who would try to break in and kill him, just so they could brag that they were the one who killed Osama Bin-Laden
c. You have to protect him from terrorists, who might try to rescue him, or even worse, blow up the entire building to kill him and “release” him from his prison (and then turnaround and blame the U.S. for blowing him up)
2. There is no way that he could have a fair trial in the U.S. Even if you could find 12 brave citizens who could be impartial, imagine the enormous pressure on them to convict. If there was a hint that they might acquit, the jury and their family would receive horrendous death threats. He could not receive a fair trial in the U.S.
(continued)
3. So where do you move his trial. To a country that would be willing to try him, even with all the security issues noted above? How many countries, that could reasonably give him a fair trial, would be willing to accept him? And what if that country doesn’t have the death penalty, which many, many countries do not? Would we allow him to be tried in a country that doesn’t have the death penalty? What if there was no other choice?
4. And what would happen should he be acquitted in this other country? Would he just walk away as a free man? Wouldn’t every gun-toting psycho be after him, even though he was not guilty? Where could he go, who would be responsible for him?
Although Bin-Laden didn’t have due process, the alternative scenario would have been a nightmare. Does that mean the easiest solution is the best solution because justice would have been too difficult? Of course not, but given the circumstances, was there really a choice? Sometimes I wonder if the Bush Administration decided not to try too hard to find Bin-Laden just so they could avoid the difficulties that taking him alive would cause.
More generally, I don't think it's either fair or sensible to place the whole weight of our foreign policy misdeeds throughout history on this decision. Yes, invading Iraq was wrong, but it really doesn't bear on this issue at all. Should we not kill bin Laden because we supported a coup in Chile in the '70s? This was a decision that had to be made on its own merits. Messy and morally questionable as it was, I find it hard to disagree with the decision.
Bin Laden had plans to hurt the US in the future; his personal journal attests to that. President Obama made a decision along with other military officials. They did what was needed to keep this country and others safe. This was a unique set of circumstances and to compare it with people taking George Bush is RIDICULOUS! Bin Laden was NOT the president of any country, he was a leader of a terrorist group! How DARE you even BEGIN to compare the two! Compare apples to apples, then see what you get! You have been the voice of reason until now! I think of you as a silly clown! You must be losing your ability to think rationally in your old age! I will from now on stop reading your completely absurd and ill thought out "logic!"
* This list of crimes in America during the twentieth century ... Next to each crime history and number of victims and the scene of the crime:
1) in April 1916: U.S. Marines suppress an uprising in the Dominican and then occupies the entire country at the beginning of May and continue occupying eight years.
2) in May 1945: U.S. warplanes bombed the city (Dresden) German Although crawl Russian had violated no longer for this reason a military target, the bombing has led to the killing of 150 thousand civilians, and destruction of 60% of the premises.
4) August 6, 1945: American President (Truman) dropped an atomic bomb on the Japanese city of Hiroshima, which killed (78150), in addition to tens of mutilated.
5) August 9, 1945: American President (Truman) dropped the second atomic bomb on the city (Nagasaki) Japanese reaped (73 884) people, (60.000) wounded, with the complete annihilation of each animal and insect and plant.
6) September 28, 1945: ratified by former U.S. President Truman on the decision to establish an air base for American forces in Dhahran to be the first American military presence on the island.
7) seized by the Americans in 1946 to two hundred and fifty thousand tons of carbon (tabun) in the deadly (Giorgian) in Austria, instead of destruction was secretly transferred to the United States.
10) August 14, 1949: A group of Syrian officers under the direction of the U.S. embassy in Damascus, surrounded the house Hosni and killed him after he rebelled against their orders.
11) June 26, 1950: United States intervened militarily against North Korea for South Korea.
12) March 10, 1952: The United States supported General (Batista) to carry out a coup against the Republican government in Cuba. After seizing the authority to impose a totalitarian country and lags associated with the United States.
13) August 19, 1953: implement the CIA coup against Mossadegh government in Iran national. The planning and implementation (Kim Roosevelt) grandson (Theodore Roosevelt), President of the United States in the year 1901 in 1909.
14) June 27, 1954: Implemented and CIA coup in Guatemala.
Why do you kill Iraqis and steal their oil?
Why do you kill Afghanistan?
Why do you kill Pakistan?
Why Tsouron with the dead and laugh and have a souvenir!?
Why do people Tazbon Guantanamo prison?
Why Trqson to the news of the death of a man who had not been tried, but was killed in front of his young daughter?
Why or why
Why you so?
You Atdon terror itself to freedom You are the first proof of
The USA is not the pure and just country that some of you seem to think it is, and that's why some people are going on and on about how this is not the way we should have handled it etc. In the USA there is only a whole lot of lies and hypocricy!
The only reason for my still having some doubts as to whether they actually killed Osama,(the man who helped them with 9/11), is because of the conflicting reports and explainations about how they got him and how they got rid of him!
Yes, He speaks the minds of millions of middle Eastern people, Who have been tortured, killed, terrorized, vanished, executed, exiled by all of United State's appointed dictators and their dictatorship governments and Islamic fundamentalists creatures like KHOMEINI, TALIBAN, ..
US does not bring any democracy and freedome to anyone and anywhere except war, horrors, killing millions of indecent people. So no one believes all fabricated CIA's shows ...
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