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Intro: "Two United States senators on Wednesday accused the Justice Department of making misleading statements about the legal justification of secret domestic surveillance activities that the government is apparently carrying out under the Patriot Act."

Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon, above, and Senator Mark Udall of Colorado, have questioned the Justice Department about surveillance activities, 09/22/11. (photo: Joshua Roberts/Bloomberg News)
Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon, above, and Senator Mark Udall of Colorado, have questioned the Justice Department about surveillance activities, 09/22/11. (photo: Joshua Roberts/Bloomberg News)



Justice Dept. Accused of Misleading Public on the Patriot Act

By Charlie Savage, The New York Times

22 September 11

wo United States senators on Wednesday accused the Justice Department of making misleading statements about the legal justification of secret domestic surveillance activities that the government is apparently carrying out under the Patriot Act.

The lawmakers - Ron Wyden of Oregon and Mark Udall of Colorado, both of whom are Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee - sent a letter to Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. calling for him to "correct the public record" and to ensure that future department statements about the authority the government believes is conveyed by the surveillance law would not be misleading.

"We believe that the best way to avoid a negative public reaction and an erosion of confidence in US intelligence agencies is to initiate an informed public debate about these authorities today," the two wrote. "However, if the executive branch is unwilling to do that, then it is particularly important for government officials to avoid compounding that problem by making misleading statements."

The Justice Department denied being misleading about the Patriot Act, saying it has acknowledged that a secret, sensitive intelligence program is based on the law and that its statements about the matter have been accurate.

Mr. Wyden and Mr. Udall have for months been raising concerns that the government has secretly interpreted a part of the Patriot Act in a way that they portray as twisted, allowing the Federal Bureau of Investigation to conduct some kind of unspecified domestic surveillance that they say does not dovetail with a plain reading of the statute.

The dispute has focused on Section 215 of the Patriot Act. It allows a secret national security court to issue an order allowing the FBI to obtain "any tangible things" in connection with a national security investigation. It is sometimes referred to as the "business records" section because public discussion around it has centered on using it to obtain customer information like hotel or credit card records.

But in addition to that kind of collection, the senators contend that the government has also interpreted the provision, based on rulings by the secret national security court, as allowing some other kind of activity that allows the government to obtain private information about people who have no link to a terrorism or espionage case.

Justice Department officials have sought to play down such concerns, saying that both the court and the intelligence committees know about the program. But the two lawmakers contended in their letter that officials have been misleading in their descriptions of the issue to the public.

First, the senators noted that Justice Department officials, under both the Bush and Obama administrations, had described Section 215 orders as allowing the FBI to obtain the same types of records for national security investigations that they could get using a grand jury subpoena for an ordinary criminal investigation. But the two senators said that analogy does not fit with the secret interpretation.

The senators also criticized a recent statement by a department spokesman that "Section 215 is not a secret law, nor has it been implemented under secret legal opinions by the Justice Department." This was "extremely misleading," they said, because there are secret legal opinions controlling how Patriot Act is being interpreted - it's just that they were issued by the national security court.

"In our judgment, when the legal interpretations of public statutes that are kept secret from the American public, the government is effectively relying on secret law," they wrote.

That part of the dispute appeared to turn on semantics. The department said that while the national security court's opinions interpreting the Patriot Act are classified, the law itself is public.

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0 # TTDM 2020-10-01 10:58
Russia, Russia, Russia.

Here's the real list of groups that control our elections and our politicians.

https://itep.org/corporate-tax-avoidance-in-the-first-year-of-the-trump-tax-law/
 
 
0 # tedrey 2020-10-01 15:20
Worth reading anyway.
 
 
-4 # Rodion Raskolnikov 2020-10-01 12:27
"Writers were paid from $50 to $75 per an article, and money was sent promptly via online transfer."


Where is Farafalla? His smoking gun has now appeared. So it may be that everyone who disagrees with him is getting paid -- $50 per RSN post! Gee, with that kind of money, maybe I could buy something.
 
 
0 # Farafalla 2020-10-01 16:42
Knock yourself out troll.
Point is Russia, Russia, Russia indeed meddling again in the election.
 
 
+1 # Farafalla 2020-10-01 16:45
Knock yourself out troll,

Point is, it's Russia meddling in the election again. And you continue to be a pro-Putin operative.

BTW: Are you still anti-vax or did you back off from that?
 
 
0 # Rodion Raskolnikov 2020-10-02 09:09
FF -- "BTW: Are you still anti-vax or did you back off from that?"


It depends on the vaccine and who's pushing it. If Gates is pushing it, then I'm against it. Too bad there isn't a vaccine against Gates.

In general, vaccines are very good. In most cases they are miracle drugs that have really improved the quality of life for a huge number of people. But the vaccine business has become tainted by capitalist profiteers who are not creating vaccines just for the money that is in the. They have also persuaded (i.e., bribed) congress to absolve vaccine makers of all liability for damages that vaccines may cause. I'm against that.

I am also very skpetical of the high number of vaccines given to babies and small children. I think the work done by Robert F. Kennedy and the Children's Health Defense is very good. They are not anti-vax just pro-good science.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/just-many-shots-cdc-schedule/
 
 
0 # tedrey 2020-10-01 15:47
I want some idea of what Russian citizens would like Americans to know. What sources am I supposed to accept as acceptable reading?

Russian sources that Russians write for and read?

Sources in other countries' media that print Russians' opinions?

Opinions printed in U. S. media with acknowledged ('left or right wing') stances?

Articles attributed to American commentators or U.S intelligence 'leaks' in American main stream media?

Letters from acquaintances, Russian, American, or other countries, who have lived or traveled in Russia recently? My own memories are outdated and rusty.

Or what sources?

The same questions, of course, can be asked of other countries.
 
 
+2 # davehaze 2020-10-01 15:48
Everything in this article contributed to Russians could just be contributed to any old American writing on the internet or anywhere without anyone's prompting or fifty bucks. If Russia wants to send me $50 for my shit I'm all in.

Why would Russia even bother? Do they think Americas need help figuring out that the police are shooting us?

The original Russiagate was long ago debunked and the newer stuff bountygate and vaccinegate laughably unproven and also debunked. But just wait until Trump's tax returns prove that he's been getting money from the Russians all along!...oh, nevermind.
 
 
0 # johnescher 2020-10-01 21:46
Debunked by whom? Bill Barr and other people of close to equal worthlessness? I have to say "close to" because nobody else could be as bad as him. Well, Mitch McConnell. And Trump himself, the most dangerous man in the world. Amazing how quickly one has to contradict oneself.

Not on Russian interference though. We got a couple of stooges right here in this thread. Give up. You lost that argument.
 
 
+1 # davehaze 2020-10-02 09:59
Johnescher
Re Russiagate there never was a discussion, let alone and arguement. The intelligence services offered unsubstantiated stories the mainstream media presented as fact, and repeated ad nasium. Any journalist who questioned the Trump/Putin narriative -- and there were many-- were not given a forum to be heard: no MSNBC guest slot, no NYT opinion column, no the Atlantic magazine article...

But as years went by proof was conspicuously abscent from every accusation, so (nothing) new accusations are substituted.

The Nation's journalist Aaron Mate, on YouTube at The Greyzone, has successfully dismissed Russiagate piece by piece. Try him. You may be surprised.
 

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