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Ackerman writes: "Deep antipathy to Hillary Clinton exists within the FBI, multiple bureau sources have told the Guardian, spurring a rapid series of leaks damaging to her campaign just days before the election."

Hillary Rodham Clinton, campaigning for president, attended a town hall event in Nashua, New Hampshire, in July to speak with potential supporters. (photo: Ian Thomas Jansen-Lonnquist/The New York Times)
Hillary Rodham Clinton, campaigning for president, attended a town hall event in Nashua, New Hampshire, in July to speak with potential supporters. (photo: Ian Thomas Jansen-Lonnquist/The New York Times)


Animosity Towards Clinton Runs Deep at the FBI

By Spencer Ackerman, Guardian UK

04 November 16

 

Highly unfavorable view of Hillary Clinton intensified after James Comey’s decision not to recommend an indictment over her use of a private email server

eep antipathy to Hillary Clinton exists within the FBI, multiple bureau sources have told the Guardian, spurring a rapid series of leaks damaging to her campaign just days before the election.

Current and former FBI officials, none of whom were willing or cleared to speak on the record, have described a chaotic internal climate that resulted from outrage over director James Comey’s July decision not to recommend an indictment over Clinton’s maintenance of a private email server on which classified information transited.

“The FBI is Trumpland,” said one current agent.

This atmosphere raises major questions about how Comey and the bureau he is slated to run for the next seven years can work with Clinton should she win the White House.

The currently serving FBI agent said Clinton is “the antichrist personified to a large swath of FBI personnel,” and that “the reason why they’re leaking is they’re pro-Trump.”

The agent called the bureau “Trumplandia”, with some colleagues openly discussing voting for a GOP nominee who has garnered unprecedented condemnation from the party’s national security wing and who has pledged to jail Clinton if elected.

At the same time, other sources dispute the depth of support for Trump within the bureau, though they uniformly stated that Clinton is viewed highly unfavorably.

“There are lots of people who don’t think Trump is qualified, but also believe Clinton is corrupt. What you hear a lot is that it’s a bad choice, between an incompetent and a corrupt politician,” said a former FBI official.

Sources who disputed the depth of Trump’s internal support agreed that the FBI is now in parlous political territory. Justice department officials – another current target of FBI dissatisfaction – have said the bureau disregarded longstanding rules against perceived or actual electoral interference when Comey wrote to Congress to say it was reviewing newly discovered emails relating to Clinton’s personal server.

Comey’s vague letter to Congress, promptly leaked by Republican congressman Jason Chaffetz, said the bureau would evaluate communications – subsequently identified as coming from a device used by disgraced ex-congressman Anthony Weiner, whose estranged wife Huma Abedin is a Clinton aide – for connections to the Clinton server. Comey’s allies say he was placed in an impossible position after previously testifying to Congress it would take an extraordinary development for him to revisit the Clinton issue. Throughout the summer and fall, Trump has attacked the FBI as corrupt for not effectively ending Clinton’s political career.

A political firestorm erupted, with Comey and the bureau coming under withering criticism, including a rebuke on Wednesday from Barack Obama. Even some congressional Republicans, no friends to Clinton, have expressed discomfort with Comey’s last-minute insertion of the bureau into the election.

The relevance of the communications to the Clinton inquiry has yet to be established, as Comey issued his letter before obtaining a warrant to evaluate them. Clinton surrogates contend that Comey has issued innuendo rather than evidence, preventing them from mounting a public defense.

Some feel Comey needs to address the criticism and provide reassurance that the bureau, with its wide-ranging investigative and surveillance powers, will comport itself in an apolitical manner. Yet since Friday, Comey has maintained his silence, even as both Clinton and Trump have called for the bureau to disclose more of what it knows.

Leaks, however, have continued. Fox News reported on Wednesday that the FBI is intensifying an investigation into the Clinton Foundation over allegations – which both the foundation and the Clinton camp deny – it traded donations for access to Hillary Clinton when she was secretary of state. The Wall Street Journal reported that justice department officials considered the allegations flimsy.

The leaks have not exclusively cast aspersions on Clinton. Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign manager, is the subject of what is said to be a preliminary FBI inquiry into his business dealings in Russia. Manafort has denied any wrongdoing.

The Daily Beast reported on Thursday on ties between Trump surrogate Rudy Giuliani, the former New York mayor, and the FBI’s New York field office, which reportedly pressed the FBI to revisit the Clinton server investigation after beginning an inquiry into Weiner’s alleged sexual texting with a minor. The website reported that a former New York field office chief, highly critical of the non-indictment, runs a military charity that has received significant financial donations from Trump.

Comey’s decision to tell the public in July that he was effectively dropping the Clinton server issue angered some within the bureau, particularly given the background of tensions with the justice department over the Clinton issue. A significant complication is the appearance of a conflict of interest regarding Loretta Lynch, the attorney general, who met with Bill Clinton this summer ahead of Comey’s announcement, which she acknowledged had “cast a shadow” over the inquiry.

“Many FBI agents were upset at the director, not because he didn’t [recommend to] indict, but they believe he threw the FBI under the bus by taking the heat away from DoJ [Department of Justice],” the former bureau official said.

All this has compounded pressure on Comey, with little end in sight.

Jim Wedick, who retired from the bureau in 2004 after 35 years, said that if Clinton is elected, she and Comey would probably find a way to work together out of a sense of pragmatism. He recalled both his own occasional clashes with federal prosecutors and Bill Clinton’s uneasy relationship with his choice for FBI director, Louis Freeh.

“Each one will find a way to pick at the other. It’s not going to be good and it’s not going to be pretty. But they’ll both have to work with each other,” he said.

Senator Ron Wyden, an Oregon Democrat on the intelligence committee, said: “The continued leadership failures at the FBI are another reminder we can’t let intelligence agencies say ‘trust us’ and then give them a blank check to probe into Americans’ lives.

“While I’ve argued for years that Congress must create ironclad protections for Americans’ security and privacy, we also need vigilant oversight of agencies that have the power to deprive citizens of their liberty or change the course of an election.”

The FBI would not comment for this story.

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-15 # anthraxripple 2016-11-04 10:02
"The currently serving FBI agent said Clinton is 'the antichrist personified to a large swath of FBI personnel,' and that 'the reason why they’re leaking is they’re pro-Trump.' "

So I guess the takeaway is that the F.B.I. is partisan for actually responding to Clinton's corruption.
 
 
+24 # librarian1984 2016-11-04 10:57
Yea, no one is saying they manufactured evidence. Only that the timing is bad.

And now the FBI will leak something bad about the CIA.

See, this is what I LIKE about a possible Trump presidency. The people who are saying Trump will end America somehow, are the same people who told us it was okay to elect an idiot like W because D!ck Cheney would be there to guide him. They're the same people who told us Brexit would end Europe. The same ones who said Trump would never be the nominee.

Why do we listen to ANY of this? It is all agitprop.

The real story is undoubtedly much more complicated and much simpler than any of these stories. There are details and double-crosses and leaks and blah blah, but it all boils down to an age old struggle for power.

The people in Washington are STILL looking inward and the media is focused on the celebrities and the race and every unimportant thing, while NONE of them give a rat's arse about ANY of us -- not kids, the poor, elders, the middle class, workers, parents, consumers -- they don't care at all.

If Trump wins Washington will be in chaos. People like Sanders might take advantage of it. It won't be pretty but it's not going to be the end of the world. The parties maybe, the media ... I would be okay with that. One term of Godzilla in DC.

But we can't go back to our couches. Now that the roaches are coming out of the woodwork we need to get to work .. with dialogue: Adopt-a-Conserv ative.
 
 
+11 # MainStreetMentor 2016-11-04 16:43
I am NOT a fan of Hillary R. Clinton. I refuse once again to be forced between choosing the lesser of two evils when it comes to voting. There MUST be some things, some events, some indiscretions, some wrongs, some misdemeanors, no matter how large or slight, which have been observed, recorded or archived, (if not in a formal manner, then at least in the minds of those who have served with/under her authorities over the years). Because somewhere there are evidently latent, clandestine histories which have “stuck in the craws” of those who are so adamantly against her. Especially those in positions of current, or past, authority. Neither am I an advocate of Donald Trump. Won’t vote for either of them. I’m writing in my choice as Bernie Sanders. Too bad, Hillary – you should have let an open, honest primary election transpire, but you thought “cheating”, again wouldn’t be “caught”. It was.
 
 
+1 # ericlipps 2016-11-05 16:12
Quoting MainStreetMentor:
am NOT a fan of Hillary R. Clinton. I refuse once again to be forced between choosing the lesser of two evils when it comes to voting. There MUST be some things, some events, some indiscretions, some wrongs, some misdemeanors, no matter how large or slight, which have been observed, recorded or archived, (if not in a formal manner, then at least in the minds of those who have served with/under her authorities over the years).

Why MUST there be? Because you are take it on faith that Clinton is corrupt and are now working backward, dumpster-diving for anything, ANYTHING, to support what you already believe?
 
 
0 # MainStreetMentor 2016-11-06 15:31
Why MUST there be? Because to hear/read as much dislike as I do against her is totally out of proportion. Surely there is a real reason for the quantity and depth - and I don't mean just the dislike by her opposition on political grounds. I maintain there has to be some basis of fact for this out-of-proporti on dislike.
 
 
+2 # Radscal 2016-11-04 19:26
Here's an interesting take. A long-time, high level (right wing) US Intelligence official says there is a coup/counter-co up going on.

Basically, the Clintons had arranged the hostile takeover of the White House we've all been seeing play out the last couple of years, but once some in the NYPD/FBI saw the Weiner documents and realized just what vile creatures they all are, they decided to take action to stop the coup, but in a bloodless and semi-covert way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kZ4tBx_IZ4
 
 
+10 # ericlipps 2016-11-04 20:07
Ah, yes. Don't worry about Hitler, said the German business elite; we'll get rid of him once he's knocked off the socialists and the labor unions for us.

Now, Trump is no Hitler (he's more of a Mussolini with hair), but the point is that counting on him to unhorse the political establishment so that ****BERNIE**** or Jill or somebody can gallop to victory is a fool's gamble. Even if he does overturn the applecart, it will be only for his benefit and that of other bullying bigots.
 
 
+8 # Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref 2016-11-04 12:03
Quoting anthraxripple:
So I guess the takeaway is that the F.B.I. is partisan for actually responding to Clinton's corruption.
Alleged corruption.
 
 
+1 # anthraxripple 2016-11-04 13:38
Only alleged by people who've been paying attention. Those not paying attention to the mountains of evidence that have streamed at us for years, can continue using words like "alleged".
 
 
+2 # JSRaleigh 2016-11-05 16:07
Quoting Diane_Wilkinson_Trefethen_aka_tref:
Quoting anthraxripple:
So I guess the takeaway is that the F.B.I. is partisan for actually responding to Clinton's corruption.
Alleged corruption.


You apparently refuse to understand the two basic underlying principals of 21st Century law enforcement in the U.S.:

Rule #1. Anyone named Bill or Hillary Clinton is automatically GUILTY!

Rule #2. Anyone who attempts to defend Bill or Hillary Clinton is obviously a lying, commie co-conspirator and is just as guilty as they are.

Any evidence suggesting the Clintons might NOT be guilty violates both Rule #1 & Rule #2.
 
 
+33 # RLF 2016-11-04 13:51
This is what the dems get when Obama left a bunch of Bush appointees in all kinds of high and midlevel jobs in the cabinet. Hillary should clean house really good and get rid of EVERY republican that is appointed and she can get rid of. Put the rest in shit positions. My uncle was at interior when Raygun came in and he said that in his 40 years there he had never seen the number of political appointees that went way down the ladder. There is precedent for cleaning house. the Republicans left have behaved badly...give them their reward!
 
 
+13 # GoGreen! 2016-11-04 14:20
RLF can only focus on a two party system. If one is bad, then we support the other--so we bounce back and forth between the two evils. Let's wake up and kick the two corporate parties out of our leadership positions. Time to clean out the corrupt and start over before these people start World War III against Russia. That is another war WE WILL NOT WIN.
 
 
0 # candida 2016-11-06 00:50
Quoting GoGreen!:
RLF can only focus on a two party system.


RLF is focused on a two-party system because s/he is sane and rational and able to see that is all we have, especially in the next several days. I'm as disappointed as anyone with the two-party system but, please, people, let's get real!!
 
 
0 # randrjwr 2016-11-06 10:05
Quoting candida:
Quoting GoGreen!:
RLF can only focus on a two party system.


RLF is focused on a two-party system because s/he is sane and rational and able to see that is all we have, especially in the next several days. I'm as disappointed as anyone with the two-party system but, please, people, let's get real!!


Yes, we have now what is effectively a two-party system, but there is a way to bolster the importance of third (and more) parties that is on the ballot as "Question 5" in Maine this very election (see "The Nation," Nov. 14, 2016, p. 4, "The Wind from Down East.") It is called "rank-choice voting" (RCV). In this system, voters rank candidates as 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. choices, and if no candidate gets a clear majority, the second-choice votes cast by those whose first choice was the last place candidate are allocated to the appropriate candidates. If there is still no clear majority, the 2nd-choices of those whose first choice was the next-to-last candidate are reallocated. This process continues until one candidate has a clear majority. Thus, for example, if we had RCV in this election, a voter could vote for, say, Jill Stein with HRC as second choice and the vote would not be totally wasted.

In addition, the real, underlying support for one or more "third" parties could be revealed and become an impetus for such parties to rise further and become viable alternatives to the establishment parties.

Check it out.
 
 
+12 # geohorse 2016-11-05 07:28
I attended a short course in vulcanology with Carter's science adviser. His disgust with Reagan, years later, for trashing all the good work they'd done by firing all the honest, excellent government people along with the programs was truly chilling. What a shame we didn't keep the best president we'd had in the last 40 yrs. The world would be a much better, cleaner, safer place.
 
 
+8 # ericlipps 2016-11-04 20:02
Quoting anthraxripple:
"The currently serving FBI agent said Clinton is 'the antichrist personified to a large swath of FBI personnel,' and that 'the reason why they’re leaking is they’re pro-Trump.' "

So I guess the takeaway is that the F.B.I. is partisan for actually responding to Clinton's corruption.

No, the FBI is partisan for manipulating the timing and presentation of ongoing investigations in order to hurt one party's candidate.

Don't think they wouldn't have done it to ****BERNIE*** if he'd been the nominee. They wouldn't have had the emails to kick around, but trust me, they'd have dug up something. Or if they couldn't dig it up, they'd make it up. The FBI is GOP Land.
 
 
+7 # anthraxripple 2016-11-04 20:35
No. They dug up so much on Clinton, because there's so much to dig up. If Sanders was that corrupt, he wouldn't have gotten my vote either.

Clinton is absolutely corrupt, and pretending she's no worse than anyone else is based on a bald faced lie.
 
 
+3 # virtualaudio 2016-11-05 13:06
Quoting anthraxripple:
No. They dug up so much on Clinton, because there's so much to dig up. If Sanders was that corrupt, he wouldn't have gotten my vote either.

Clinton is absolutely corrupt, and pretending she's no worse than anyone else is based on a bald faced lie.

abthraxripple (I love you handle!).. I have no love for HRC; I was a Bernie supporter during the primaries.. but I think that dealing in absolutes is dangerous and mentally limiting: e.g. 'absolutely corrupt'.
I agree HRC & company has engaged in all manners of corrupt behavior. I don't doubt that Trump has too. I simply (and respectfully) take issue with the black and white outlook you have indicated in you statement. It is unworthy of a Monty Python fan.
That said, I am happy to be voting for Jill Stein & the green party in an effort to elevate a sane 3rd party in US politics (I live in La. so it is an easy choice; HRC will not win Louisiana). I would write in Bernie's name if I thought it would be counted and/ or make a difference, but I don't think it will. I don't think write in's are even allowed in my state.
 
 
0 # candida 2016-11-06 00:54
Quoting virtualaudio:
I agree HRC & company has engaged in all manners of corrupt behavior. I don't doubt that Trump has too.


You don't have to doubt about Trump's business and political, not to mention moral, corruption. There's plenty of investigative news reports about it that RSN has published from the NYT and Rolling Stone, just to name two sources.
 
 
-1 # ericlane 2016-11-05 05:05
What corruption, ripple?
 
 
0 # CL38 2016-11-06 17:51
Animosity Towards Clinton Runs Deep in a majority of VOTERS!
 
 
+11 # Bryan 2016-11-04 10:20
Animosity towards Trump in Obama and his Justice Dept run even deeper.
 
 
+21 # jdd 2016-11-04 10:34
Animosity towards Clinton also runs deep among the American people. And deservedly so for a candidate who is willing to risk WWIII in order to overthrow the legitimate government of Syria.
 
 
0 # Cassandra2012 2016-11-04 11:01
Apparently, flagrant misogyny runs deep among insecure males afraid of articulate powerful women who stand up for themselves & other women!!
 
 
+8 # librarian1984 2016-11-04 11:06
You crack me up. Are you a bot? :-D :-D

xxx: Climate change ..
Cassandra: Misogynist!

yyy: War ..
Cassandra: Misogyny!

zzz: Syria .. no-fly zone ...
Cassandra: Misogyny!
 
 
+14 # anthraxripple 2016-11-04 11:14
Is that the code Clinton is using to program the bots? It seems simple enough.
 
 
-3 # Cassandra2012 2016-11-04 13:29
Librarian, you sometimes have intelligent things to say but alas you seem to suffer from Hillary-Derange ment-Syndrome, which is neither attractive nor convincing.
I do not make comments on the No-fly Zone, and War is MUCH more likely if thin-skinned Der Drumpf gets in!

Oh, and Drumpf thinks Climate Change is a Chinese hoax, dontcha' know?
 
 
+15 # anthraxripple 2016-11-04 13:41
Yep. Trump calls it a hoax. Luckily Clinton knows it's real and STILL promotes fracking, the TPP, NAFTA, war for oil profit, and an "all of the above" approach to energy policy.

Trump calls climate change a hoax. Whereas Clinton has a climate change policy that's a hoax.
 
 
+19 # librarian1984 2016-11-04 14:18
Thank you for actually talking to me, Cassandra. I love that name. I identify with that heroine.

I think that is where we disagree. I believe war is more likely with Secretary Clinton in office. She is being endorsed by Paul Wolfowitz and many architects of the Iraq War. She counts Henry Kissinger among her mentors. She refused to say she wouldn't launch a nuclear first strike. I find those things worrisome.

She laughed at Qaddafi's death and she argued FOR having sent Honduran children back as a 'lesson', even though we had already learned some of those children had been killed. She voted to allow cluster bombs. Her campaign has voluntarily taken the low road day after day, and may have benefitted from election fraud. That speaks to a cruelty I do not want to see leading the country.

We need peace. We need to rebuild our strength and quit selling arms to everyone. I just don't see Hillary Clinton having the vision we need.

On the other hand I am with you in wanting a woman to lead us. You should look at the Green Party's web site and see if you could support their platform.

It looks like Hillary's going to win so this is a good time to vote your conscience. Working Families is good.

I don't care about Vince Foster or Benghazi, or even the emails. I am worried about her judgment and thinking of war as a first option.

I think there are seventeen candidates running for president. Let's all send a message to the parties.
 
 
+5 # dipierro4 2016-11-04 22:59
Very well said, librarian1984. Thank you.
 
 
+1 # CL38 2016-11-06 00:42
IYO
 
 
+14 # jdd 2016-11-04 11:12
No matter who wins, the real action begins on Nov. 9.
 
 
+22 # anthraxripple 2016-11-04 11:14
Yep. I like Stein because I hate women.
 
 
-12 # Cassandra2012 2016-11-04 13:12
Quoting anthraxripple:
Yep. I like Stein because I hate women.


No bc she really has no chance of winning and no experience.
 
 
+15 # anthraxripple 2016-11-04 13:41
You sound like a misogynist.
 
 
-11 # Cassandra2012 2016-11-04 15:50
Quoting anthraxripple:
You sound like a misogynist.


You obviously wouldn't recognize a misogynist if he grabbed at your *pu$$y* ....
 
 
+6 # Patriot 2016-11-04 18:26
Perhaps not--although I've met enough of them!

But I can recognize crudity, rudeness, and immaturity. I tink you owe anthraxripple and the rest of us an apology.

Check your mirror; you'll see a misandrist.
 
 
+6 # anthraxripple 2016-11-04 20:36
Thank you. You hit the nail on the head.
 
 
-4 # Bryan 2016-11-05 09:33
We get it---you HATE men...especiall y rich men.
I doubt men like you either.
Maybe that's why you hate men.
 
 
+1 # librarian1984 2016-11-05 11:10
Now you've COMPLICATED the matter by proving Cassandra's point.
 
 
+1 # Bryan 2016-11-06 12:12
Yea the obvious has a way of 'complicating' thing for people who dont want to acknowledge the obvious.

If your new goal here is to win over the Hilary militants --quit wasting your time, cozying up to their whines and angst wont work on them. All it does is re enforce them.
 
 
+9 # grandlakeguy 2016-11-04 17:08
If the American voters knew everything about both woman candidates then I think that Jill Stein WOULD actually win!

Sadly Jill has been marginalized and ignored by our media while the actual record of Hillary Clinton has been whitewashed and covered up at all costs.
 
 
-3 # ericlipps 2016-11-04 20:14
Quoting grandlakeguy:
If the American voters knew everything about both woman candidates then I think that Jill Stein WOULD actually win!

Snicker.

Sorry. Seriously, Stein's trouble isn't that she's a woman; it's that she's chosen to run as the nominee of a party with el zippo chance of winning.

Quote:
Sadly Jill has been marginalized and ignored by our media while the actual record of Hillary Clinton has been whitewashed and covered up at all costs.
Have you actually been paying attention either to the media or to the posts right here on RSN? "Whitewashed and covered up" indeed!

But then, I suppose that to you, the fact that Hillary Clinton's corpse isn't swinging from a lamppost, just down the street from her husband's, counts as proof of a coverup.
 
 
+16 # Merlin 2016-11-04 12:32
Cassandra2012 2016-11-04 11:01

Have you ever listened to yourself and questioned what you are saying and writing? Librarian is showing you something important that you need to think about. She is not "an insecure male" with "flagrant misogyny" as you well know.

Personally, I enjoy and love strong women. They pose no threat to me and in fact I grow from my relationship with them. Until the day she died at 49, my daughter was a powerful woman and the love of my life. To believe I was insecure around this woman who graduated with honors with a degree in psychology, is just silly, and yet you make that blanket condemnation of all men, which includes me.

For me to respect a strong woman, she must be basically honest, (no one is perfect,) and live by a positive set of ethics. HRC is powerful and may even be strong, but I can not respect her based on her record in politics since she was a "Goldwater Girl."

So, no, I will not vote for her. I am voting for Jill Stein who is a strong, (successful medical doctor,) woman who I respect and whose philosophy and party platform matches my beliefs.

Not all men who disagree with you are insecure and bathed in misogyny. You embarrass yourself by saying this. You are better than this. Please think about it.
 
 
-5 # Cassandra2012 2016-11-04 13:14
And who luckily for your claim of not disliking strong women... cannot win....

And you embarrass yourself with your man'splainin' . Allowing a walking, bloviating neo-fascist Narcissistic Personality Disorder like Der Drumpf to take over the presidency bc you have antipathy towards a woman like Clinton is neither rational nor logical, and decidedly shortsighted. Ignoring history is not particularly admirable either.
 
 
+6 # Merlin 2016-11-04 13:40
Cassandra2012 2016-11-04 13:14
"And you embarrass yourself with your man'splainin'"

Thank you for proving the point.
 
 
+4 # RLF 2016-11-04 13:56
Merlin...Haven' t yo u figured it out...all women are good, all women act charitably, all women are smarter, and if you say you are not a misogynist...th at proves you are!
 
 
+7 # economagic 2016-11-04 15:32
Yes, as in the old logic puzzles where members of one group always lie and members of the other group always tell the truth. We've come a long way. Really. Sure we have.
 
 
+11 # anthraxripple 2016-11-04 13:43
Ignoring recent history (like everything we've learned about Clinton over the past 8 years) isn't admirable either.
 
 
-7 # Cassandra2012 2016-11-04 15:53
Learned from whom? the RNC?, the lamestream media? the FBI boy's club? , Trump's ever-lying mouth?
 
 
+4 # anthraxripple 2016-11-04 20:37
No. I resent the insult to my intelligence. I think for myself. Perhaps you should try it. Who feeds you your information?
 
 
+4 # anthraxripple 2016-11-04 21:06
Exactly when is it ok for Clinton supporters to pay attention to the news? If you hear something against Hillary you start quoting Sarah Palin ("lamestream media" is a phrase SHE invented because she didn't like news about herself either).

What facts are ok for us to hear? Should we only listen to Hillary herself? I've never taken any politician strictly on their words before. Why would I start now?

Tell me the sources I SHOULD be trusting.
 
 
+4 # CL38 2016-11-06 01:22
I'm not a Trump supporter and would never vote for the likes of him.

Two inappropriate candidates have been pushed on voters in this election. Have you read about Clinton's past positions starting in the 90's and moving forward? Her decisions as SOS? Look at her history.

I'm a long time feminist. I won't be voting for either Clinton or Trump. Does that' make me a misogynist?

Assuming that anyone who doesn't support her is a misogynist, is dangerous and short sighted.
 
 
-6 # Cassandra2012 2016-11-04 15:52
ah but she has been repeating and repeating her (?) over-the-top irrational hatred of Clinton since way before the primaries... .
 
 
+6 # anthraxripple 2016-11-04 20:39
Really? Give me an example.

Are you accusing Jill Stein of "misogyny" now too?
 
 
+3 # CL38 2016-11-06 01:26
Disliking and not trusting a female candidate due to her past and current positions, her tendency to avoid being straight with voters and a history of corruption, is not 'irrational hatred'. It's common sense.
 
 
+10 # GoGreen! 2016-11-04 14:27
Maybe Cassandra2012 is talking about Jill Stein. She is an articulate powerful woman who stands for herself and other women.

Hillary seems to only care about the upper class woman. She, who helped us 'Get rid of welfare as we know it", and takes children away from parental care, and put them in a day care center where real 'care' is rare in the high turnover of the low paid staff.
 
 
-1 # candida 2016-11-06 01:04
Quoting jdd:
Animosity towards Clinton also runs deep among the American people. And deservedly so for a candidate who is willing to risk WWIII in order to overthrow the legitimate government of Syria.


Ignorance also runs deep among the American people (and RSN commentators) who find Trump more trustworthy than Clinton (by double digits) even though Trump is found to lie 68% of the time vs. 10% of the time for Clinton, according to fact-checkers (recent NPR reports).
 
 
+22 # librarian1984 2016-11-04 10:26
Okay, I now see Hillary's point. Incrementalism has its advantages.

This is what the next four years will be like, investigations and obstruction and revelations and drama. Who will have time for the work of the people? I imagine there will be WH internal struggles too, between Hillary's people and Bill's people.

OR we get the WH painted gold with a Presidential Suite up on the new 8th floor.

During the tumultuous Gingrich years Rep. Bernie Sanders was known as the 'amendment king' for getting massive amounts of legislation through, benefitting veterans and others, working with both sides of the aisle.

I am hoping he, with new influence, will get some important laws passed, or prevent bad ones from passing. Let's give him a Senate that will help him. Whoever you vote for for president, vote third party as much as you can - and if you can't think of a single good thing your incumbent has done, vote them out.

For now we need to trust Sanders and his allies to cover a decent domestic agenda, and we need to support them, but WHO is going to be the 'adult' on foreign policy? Trump or Clinton, who will talk them down?

Reagan said government is the problem and then he set about making it come true. At last I see my conservative brothers' and sisters'point. We need to make sure that restraints on government are enforced, and part of those checks and balances is US.

Vote! Vote like your life depended on it, and your kids' lives.
 
 
+19 # grandlakeguy 2016-11-04 10:34
This cannot end well for Clinton regardless if she is elected or not.
Now is the time for her to drop out and urge everyone to write in Bernie Sanders.
Bernie can pardon her when President and she can retire into private life.
I do not care what happens to Hillary Clinton I just do not want to see her be our President.
 
 
+8 # librarian1984 2016-11-04 11:02
Haha, yes -- you were prescient! If Bernie agrees to a blanket pardon she steps down .. from your proverbial lips to her ears, glg!

:-D
 
 
-9 # Cassandra2012 2016-11-04 11:05
Who will pardon Comey & the rest of the shamelessly partisan FBI boys for violating the Hatch Act??
 
 
+17 # anthraxripple 2016-11-04 11:15
Are you referring to the same FBI whom Clinton praised a month ago, when she thought she was off the hook?
 
 
+16 # jdd 2016-11-04 11:16
Is there not a penalty for pushing WWIII while opposing Glass-Steagall? We know Obama will try to ram through the TPP in the lame duck session. The action begins Nov. 9?
 
 
+10 # banichi 2016-11-04 11:06
Agree. But I sure as hell do not think she deserves a pardon. She should be tried on a number of counts, including but not limited to the rigging of the primaries, pushing the TPP (treason in my book) and the neoliberal regime change policies she made happen. This is verifiable and proven, and doesn't even come near the corruption of the Clinton Foundation(s) and the play-for-pay issues.

No pardon for her.
 
 
+5 # librarian1984 2016-11-04 12:39
I agree. I don't want her pardoned. But I would be willing to take that bargain if it meant she would step down and give the spot to Sanders.

And she really REALLY wants to be president. I think you'd have to give her something that big to get her to step down.

Heck, I'd be willing to see her on Mount Rushore if she'd only step down.

Tick tock, Hillary!
 
 
+10 # grandlakeguy 2016-11-04 12:42
Dear banichi, I agree that she does not deserve a pardon but my main priority is to see a positive outcome to this terrible choice we are facing.
Neither Trump nor Clinton are acceptable and Jill Stein has been so ignored by the media that most people do not even know who she is.

Seeing Hillary and Bill Clinton face justice is absolutely secondary to achieving a better future with a real progressive like Bernie.
 
 
-6 # Jaax88 2016-11-04 15:58
Boy where do you get your info? Straight out of the "Hate Hillary" book it seems. You make a lot of hateful claims. Easy to say, but way off the mark as to Hillary's personal lawful responsibility.
 
 
+4 # lfeuille 2016-11-04 18:38
If it's the only way to keep her out of the White House, I'll go for it. Not ideal, but better than having her as president. Of course, this is fany. It is too late to replace her with Bernie. If she is elected, she can be impeached, but I doubt it will happen and then we would get Kaine, not Bernie.
 
 
+21 # Johnny 2016-11-04 10:52
Violation of laws related to leaking "classified information?" See nothing policy for millionaire crooks like Clinton, prosecution for patriots like Snowden.
 
 
+23 # Citizen Mike 2016-11-04 10:41
The FBI has always been partisan of a racist fascist bent. All us old Peaceniks know that.
 
 
+8 # Radscal 2016-11-04 19:55
Yep, the FBI has been a vicious, anti-progressiv e organization since its founding. Same with CIA. Don't even get me started on NSA, let alone all those NGOs the Deep State creates to stir up horrible problems around the world.

Now, what was it that HRC has said or done to rein in these fascists in her "40 years of public service?"

Because, near as I can tell, she's been a big fan up until the moment one group of them actually acknowledged the possibility that the Clintons are corrupt and dangerous people.
 
 
+11 # tr4302@gmail.com 2016-11-04 10:43
+1 # grandlakeguy 2016-11-04 10:34
This cannot end well for Clinton regardless if she is elected or not.
Now is the time for her to drop out and urge everyone to write in Bernie Sanders.
Bernie can pardon her when President and she can retire into private life.
I do not care what happens to Hillary Clinton I just do not want to see her be our Presiden Amen grandlakeguy!!
 
 
+3 # CL38 2016-11-06 01:32
problem is, Hillary is obsessed with becoming President. I can't imagine her stepping down. She would fight that to the end.
 
 
+18 # Johnny 2016-11-04 10:44
"Animosity towards Clinton runs deep" everywhere that Americans don't want to see our country reduced to a radioactive cinder.
 
 
-8 # Cassandra2012 2016-11-04 11:08
Quoting Johnny:
"Animosity towards Clinton runs deep" everywhere that Americans don't want to see our country reduced to a radioactive cinder.

Yet you wd. feel safe with know-nothing bully Trumpf 's teeny fingers on the nuclear buttons?
 
 
+16 # jdd 2016-11-04 11:18
Trump is calling for collaboration with Russia to crush ISIS. That is not the path to WWIII. Give it up. She is still the Goldwater Girl.
 
 
-13 # Cassandra2012 2016-11-04 15:55
collaboration, huh?

More like toadying submission to KGB- boy, Putin.
 
 
+4 # anthraxripple 2016-11-04 21:08
Yep. It's the Russians' fault that Clinton has been caught in this scandal. It's their fault that the FBI just revealed a 1 million dollars donated to her campaign by Qatar (it's called "pay to play" and it's a federal crime).

Damn Russian tattle-tales!
 
 
0 # Phillybuster 2016-11-05 13:15
Do you know anything about Putin? He rose quickly from a nameless apparatchik to attain high office by, among other things, promising Yeltsin that he would protect Yeltsin's family after he died. Since obtaining office he has been the head of Murder, Inc. in Russia. All his opponents are assassinated, die mysteriously (polonium poisoning) or are sent to the gulag. Trump is his useful idiot. Putin will run circles around him while Trump will think he's making "unbelievably great deals" with Russia.

In addition, Trump and his family have extensive business dealings in Russia and thus have a stake in maintaining the authoritarian status quo there.
 
 
+2 # virtualaudio 2016-11-05 13:35
Gee anthrax, I criticized a statement you made earlier as being black and white / absolutist. But after reading numerous posts by Cassandra, I think my critique was directed at the wrong person. My apologies.
Cassandra2012 - I know you won't but I will say this anyway: get over it.
I don't subscribe to the view that Clinton is absolute evil and/or corrupt, not do I desire a Trump presidency, but I do think the two major parties, along with the media and the donor class have let us down. We are presented with two seriously flawed and undesirable major party candidates for president (for more insight on the genesis and failings of the modern DEM party, please read Thomas Frank's recent book 'Listen, Liberal'; for insight on the GOP disaster, check out 'Dark Money' by Jane Mayer).
As for the recurring claim that a vote for Stein (or any 3rd party) is wasted, this will never change if people do not vote for 3rd party candidates. The same thing keeps happening: the media ignores 3rd party candidates, the people don't hear about them, then their chances of winning are declared nil; case closed.
Time to break this cycle.
 
 
+1 # anthraxripple 2016-11-07 20:29
Thanks. You're right too.

I really don't subscribe to the 3rd party philosophy, but I won't vote for Clinton under any circumstances, because we need to revitalize the Democratic Party rather than killing it.

The only way I can see that happening is if she loses.

Now, the only question is whether I'll vote my conscience and go with Stein, or chose the LOTE and vote for Donald FREAKIN' Trump.

We're in bizarro world.
 
 
-1 # ericlipps 2016-11-05 16:22
Quoting jdd:
Trump is calling for collaboration with Russia to crush ISIS. That is not the path to WWIII. Give it up. She is still the Goldwater Girl.

Oh, for God's sake, get over it. Hillary was a Goldwater Girl" FIFTY YEARS ago.

Fifty years before he (mercifully) left the White House, Ronald Reagan was an FDR Democrat. (Fifty years before he reached the White House, Reagan was too young to vote.)
 
 
+3 # dquandle 2016-11-06 00:45
Over fifty years ago, and Hillary still wants to start WWIII with Russia.. or China... or both.
 
 
+15 # librarian1984 2016-11-04 12:41
During the third debate Trump said he would not launch a nuclear first strike.

Hillary would not say the same thing.
 
 
-10 # Cassandra2012 2016-11-04 13:16
And you just believe what Der Drumpf 'says'?
(Even though he only lies when he opens his mouth and speaks?) ROFL
 
 
+13 # librarian1984 2016-11-04 14:24
He's been consistent throughout his campaign on the issue. He's talked about withdrawing some military bases and renegotiating treaties. I'm okay with that.

He says he wants a diplomatic relationship with Russia and Putin has been saying the same thing, while Clinton has been openly and explicitly provoking Russia, as are women who've been mentioned for cabinet positions. So yes, I think we'd have a better relationship with Russia under Trump.

I do think that's relevant.

Do I trust his word? Let's say I trust them both the same. ;^D
 
 
-2 # candida 2016-11-06 01:20
Quoting librarian1984:
[Trump''s been consistent throughout his campaign on the issue.

Do I trust his word? Let's say I trust them both the same. ;^D


Yes, he's been a consistent liar. So, you trust him the same even though Trump lies 68% of the time and Clinton 10%, according to fact-checkers (recent NPR report)? Of course, to any rational soul, those figures sound just about right. But to those with rich-white-male delusional syndrome, this will probably come as a surprise.
 
 
+2 # CL38 2016-11-06 01:36
Johnny didn't say he would feel safe with Trump. He's concerned about Clinton 'reducing our country to a radioactive cinder'.

The GOP/DNC Party controlled this election to prevent Sanders from winning and gave us two corrupt candidates.

Please do research on Clinton.
 
 
-3 # carytucker 2016-11-04 16:05
Quoting Johnny:
"Animosity towards Clinton runs deep" everywhere that Americans don't want to see our country reduced to a radioactive cinder.

Somewhere Lee Atwater is taking great delight at the portrayal of candidate Trump as an advocate for world peace. It's so easy to Willie Horton RSN contributors. They spend so much time thinking of snarky nicknames for Pres Obama, Sec'y Clinton, Sec'y Reich, PaulKrugman, et al., it's no wonder they can't count the ships in Mr Trump's proposed Navy or the battalions in his desired Wehrmacht. Four more days of misplaced concreteness until arithmetic intrudes.
 
 
0 # Phillybuster 2016-11-05 13:43
Yes, so easily manipulated by the RW agitprop. After 30 years of throwing mud at Hillary Clinton, “There must be something to it!"

People should ask themselves, have you ever had false rumors spread about you? Felt good, didn't it? Did someone ever accuse you of having an affair when you didn't? Did someone ever accuse you of stealing something that you didn't? Accuse you of saying something terrible that you didn't say? Accuse you of double dealing, dishonesty, lying, backstabbing when you didn't? Now imagine being the subject of hundreds of false rumors over 30 years. How do you think you would be holding up?

We don't need a President who will go to DEFCON 1 if he receives a tweet containing something critical of him.
 
 
-4 # Citizen Mike 2016-11-04 10:50
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING RIGHT NOW IS TRUMP PREVENTION AT ANY COST!
 
 
+14 # anthraxripple 2016-11-04 11:10
Trump bad ≠ Clinton good.

Trump bad.

Clinton bad.

(Trump bad) + (Clinton bad) = America fucked.

Don't vote for evil. Don't vote for Trump. Don't vote for Clinton. If you must vote, do so responsibly. All the caps lock in the world won't save it from a Clinton war on Russia.
 
 
0 # ericlipps 2016-11-05 16:23
And won't need to, because she won't start one.
 
 
-3 # candida 2016-11-06 01:25
Quoting anthraxripple:
Trump bad ≠ Clinton good.

(Trump bad) + (Clinton bad) = America fucked.

Don't vote for evil. Don't vote for Trump. Don't vote for Clinton. If you must vote, do so responsibly. All the caps lock in the world won't save it from a Clinton war on Russia.


Trump bad ≠ Clinton just as bad or worse.

False equivalencies ≠ truth or a Clinton war on Russia.
 
 
+20 # banichi 2016-11-04 11:11
Not accurate. Trump is a POS, but does not have an agenda of provoking the Russians into a nuclear war like Clinton does. That makes him the LOTEs, though still an evil. Since we were cheated out of having Bernie Sanders as candidate, our choices are very limited. Vote for Jill Stein - if only because the two-party system needs to be replaced with some people power that neither the Democrats or Republicans are able or willing to provide.

I was a Democrat all my life (69 years old now) and never missed voting. DemExit after the farce of the primaries and the Convention.
 
 
-9 # Cassandra2012 2016-11-04 13:17
Trump is silly putty in Putin's hands.
 
 
+12 # anthraxripple 2016-11-04 13:46
All the children in Russia and the United States will be turned into melted silly putty at the hands of Hillary's nuclear threats.

Clinton will have blood on her hands, just like her professional supporters.
 
 
+4 # lfeuille 2016-11-04 18:42
Look, I don't really like defending the creep, but that is just ridiculous. Lack of sputtering hatred = silly putty in your eyes.
 
 
-8 # revhen 2016-11-04 11:35
Misogyny rules! Project everything you hated about mommy onto Hillary. We are suffering from mass insanity!
 
 
+11 # anthraxripple 2016-11-04 13:47
Mommy didn't love me.

That's why I'm voting for Jill Stein.
 
 
-2 # candida 2016-11-06 01:27
Quoting anthraxripple:
Mommy didn't love me.

That's why I'm voting for Jill Stein.


Well, finally, some truth!
 
 
+2 # Merlin 2016-11-04 15:37
# revhen 2016-11-04 11:35
"Misogyny rules! Project everything you hated about mommy onto Hillary. We are suffering from mass insanity!"

Hahahaha…Great stuff!

And you are suffering from a serious case of projection and emotionally blind ignorance. Mass insanity??? Speak for yourself.
 
 
-6 # Cassandra2012 2016-11-04 15:58
Quoting revhen:
Misogyny rules! Project everything you hated about mommy onto Hillary. We are suffering from mass insanity!



More likely mass memory loss. Anybody remember the 1930s or actually read about them in a *book*--->?
 
 
+3 # anthraxripple 2016-11-04 20:41
You can't even seem to remember Clinton's own record. Why should we listen to lectures about the 1930s from someone who can't even remember 2008?
 
 
-11 # Citizen Mike 2016-11-04 11:38
HILLARY IS THE LESSER EVIL BECAUSE TRUMP IS AN OUTRIGHT FASCIST! DO NOT WASTE YOUR VOTE ON JILL, SHE IS THE NEW NADER! HILLARY WILL NOT START A WAR WITH RUSSIA, SHE IS A SKILLED NEGOTIATOR. SORRY FOR ALL CAPS, I AM INJURED AND TYPING LEFTY.
 
 
+13 # Merlin 2016-11-04 12:48
Citizen Mike 2016-11-04 11:38
HILLARY IS THE LESSER EVIL BECAUSE TRUMP IS AN OUTRIGHT FASCIST! DO NOT WASTE YOUR VOTE ON JILL, SHE IS THE NEW NADER! HILLARY WILL NOT START A WAR WITH RUSSIA, SHE IS A SKILLED NEGOTIATOR. SORRY FOR ALL CAPS, I AM INJURED AND TYPING LEFTY.

No problem with the caps. Sorry you are hurting. Hope it isn't serious.

That said, you are simply wrong about Nader, wasting my vote on Jill and that HRC is a skilled negotiator. Your fear is misplaced in my view.

On war with Russia, what do you think the "no fly zone" over Syria is going to do? What will happen if Russia continues to fly its planes there and we shoot one down? (Because they are violating that "no fly zone.") What do you think Russia will do? Be a big pussy and back down. ("Hey its OK! You can shoot our planes down. We won't fire back. We don't want to provoke you! You are the most powerful country in the world! We are scared of you!")

Tell me how you think HRC will handle the "no fly zone" she plans to impose. How does she "negotiate" this?
 
 
-7 # Citizen Mike 2016-11-04 14:01
I think the no-fly zone statement is mere puffery and will never be actually implemented. I expect we will stand back from Syria and let it be Putin's headache to manage Assad as his puppet. And from that position he can battle Islamist terrorism. It is not in the US interest to expand warfare in the Mideast and neither the public nor congress will support that. We may rattle sabers but realpolitik will
prevail. Watch and see.

I had rotator cuff repair surgery, it is not a big deal but thanx.
 
 
+12 # lorenbliss 2016-11-04 14:59
@Citizen Mike: Alas, "mere puffery" is precisely what far too many German Jews thought of Hitler's antisemitism.
 
 
+8 # Merlin 2016-11-04 15:18
Citizen Mike 2016-11-04 14:01
"I had rotator cuff repair surgery, it is not a big deal but thanx."

Glad it isn't serious!

On no fly, we will have to agree to disagree, I guess. I find way too much evidence to see this as just political puffery. Challenging Russia is a very serious issue and no one, not even a political candidate, should be threatening them. From Honduras to the Ukraine, HRC has proven her war mentality. The Ukraine was a serious challenge to Russia and was not puffery. That HRC engineered "regime change" really happened. And it was at Russia's border and in violation of the agreement we made with Russia regarding the West's moving in on the former block nations. Her history says I should take her "no fly zone" talk seriously.
 
 
-5 # Citizen Mike 2016-11-04 17:09
She is rational and has caution and would not rule alone by fiat. Trump has no caution and thinks an American president is a dictator who can rule by decree without restraint by the legislature and the courts and does not trust any advisors. So Hill is the lesser evil.
 
 
-5 # Citizen Mike 2016-11-04 17:09
She is rational and has caution and would not rule alone by fiat. Trump has no caution and thinks an American president is a dictator who can rule by decree without restraint by the legislature and the courts and does not trust any advisors. So Hill is the lesser evil.
 
 
+3 # Citizen Mike 2016-11-04 17:12
I do not know why this was repeated after it appeared to not transmit at all but seemed stalled, sorry!
 
 
+4 # Radscal 2016-11-04 19:59
Because you hit "Send" again (and again) after it stalled. I've done it, too.
 
 
-2 # Citizen Mike 2016-11-04 17:09
She is rational and has caution and would not rule alone by fiat. Trump has no caution and thinks an American president is a dictator who can rule by decree without restraint by the legislature and the courts and does not trust any advisors. So Hill is the lesser evil.
 
 
0 # Phillybuster 2016-11-05 13:54
Trump's peacenik buddy, Bareback Putin, is getting ready for him...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russia-reveals-chilling-first-images-9118075... "Russia has revealed its biggest ever nuclear missile which is powerful enough to destroy a country as big as France with a single strike."
 
 
-2 # Phillybuster 2016-11-05 14:36
Note that France is about the size of Texas.
 
 
-5 # Citizen Mike 2016-11-04 17:09
She is rational and has caution and would not rule alone by fiat. Trump has no caution and thinks an American president is a dictator who can rule by decree without restraint by the legislature and the courts and does not trust any advisors. So Hill is the lesser evil.
 
 
+8 # lfeuille 2016-11-04 18:49
If you pay attention when she talks about it, you can see by her demeanor that it is one of the few things she advocates that she really believes in.
Not so much for the protection of Syrians as she claims, but because it fits in with the neocon/pnac plan to keep the middle east in turmoil forever to the benefit of Israel.And, she has accomplices in the State Dept. and Pentagon ready to help her implement it.
 
 
+7 # Radscal 2016-11-04 20:02
Exactly. She's been consistently calling for the destruction of Syria, and the imposition of a no fly zone for years.

In her latest speech to AIPAC, she specified that the reason she wanted to destroy Syria was for Israel.

She even got those threats put into the Democratic Party Platform.
 
 
-2 # ericlipps 2016-11-05 16:27
She has been calling for the "destruction of Syria"? When and where?
 
 
+1 # anthraxripple 2016-11-07 20:32
"Duh, Syria? What Syria? Duh, me not know 'bout Syria".

GOOD ARGUMENT!
 
 
-12 # Jaax88 2016-11-04 16:04
Actually Merlin I think you are making up things to sue your whims and purposes.
 
 
+7 # Merlin 2016-11-04 16:29
Jaax88 2016-11-04 16:04
Actually Merlin I think you are making up things to sue your whims and purposes.

Of course you would think that.

BTW, my "whims and purposes" have no money, so it isn't worth suing them.
 
 
+6 # Citizen Mike 2016-11-04 17:26
Don't you love it when someone types "almost sounds right" but it is the wrong word? I am an editor and lament how we are losing our culture.
 
 
+6 # lorenbliss 2016-11-04 18:29
@Citizen Mike: Hear, hear! Indeed, here is one matter upon which we most emphatically agree.
 
 
0 # Jaax88 2016-11-04 19:23
Oh maybe the correct word is "suit."
 
 
+2 # Radscal 2016-11-04 19:38
"SORRY FOR ALL CAPS, I AM INJURED AND TYPING LEFTY."

lol. Perfect Hil-bot excuse that is not an excuse whatsoever.

Or perhaps it's a brain injury that prevented you from realizing you could type in all lower case instead of yelling at us.
 
 
+6 # Citizen Mike 2016-11-04 21:17
Aww, be nice, I just had surgery and tried initial caps but it got stuck and I did not want to type it over, first day back on line. Could happen to anyone,
 
 
+6 # Radscal 2016-11-04 21:40
OK. My apologies then. Get well, soon.
 
 
-3 # kalpal 2016-11-04 13:13
Obama needs to declare that no one will be permitted to retire from the FBI till an investigation is concluded in this matter and that all agents who ignored the Hatch act will be permitted to retire only if they agree in writing in front of a court toforego all retirement pay unless they are willing to serve a 5 year sentence in a penitentiary in order to retain any retirement pay.
 
 
+9 # librarian1984 2016-11-04 14:42
Obama sure looks chill! Maybe he'll have a talk show.

I'll bet he gets a bonus if they can get Hillary elected.

Man, she can't even beat Trump without every institution and individual propping her up. But who's going to pay the price for her misjudgments and follies? The people and the soldiers, and those who are going to get bombed, that's who. Not her. Not Bill. Not Chelsea. None of their friends. US.

We need to end militarism. We should not be supplying armament to everyone. America -- profit off of war? That is wrong.

America -- torture? No. Wrong.

America invade, kill, bomb, drone, arm, train? No no no.

We should lead the world in training engineers and inventors to combat climate change. We should employ day care workers to help American families. We should rebuild our infrastructure. We should close down most of our bases and leave most countries. We should drop the military and intelligence budgets by 80%

We need to lead the world in sustainability. Americans are clever, optimistic and hard-working. People used to love us before we became bullies, and for good reason.

We can be a force for good. But we have got to unload these parasites, these inbred oligarchs who think they're better than the rest of us .. when all evidence says quite the opposite.

Let's lead or let's get the hell out of everyone else's way. Soon the world is going to sanction us, build a wall around US if we're not careful. Never Hillary.
 
 
-5 # Jaax88 2016-11-04 16:07
Are you not paying attention 1984? trump is in love with torture.
 
 
+4 # lfeuille 2016-11-04 18:58
Hillary is in love with disinformation and stealth. Trump is all on the surface. We will know what he is doing and what we have to fight. Hillary is sneaky. She will try to do things she knows people won't like under the table. It will be very hard to keep up with her various outrages. Some things will escape detection until it is too late.
 
 
-1 # dquandle 2016-11-05 17:07
Indeed, and it may prove to be her downfall. She wouldn't be facing any of the electoral problems she has now, if she had not attempted to secret away all of her and her revolting State Department's activities from the American public, as the law required her to divulge them. She's vicious and stupid, just like her co-conspirator and mentor, the heinous gorgon, Albright.
 
 
+6 # Radscal 2016-11-04 20:09
I heard Tyrel Ventura on "Watching the Hawks" say it in an inverted way I enjoyed.

We don't elect our leaders. We elect our followers.

That rings with optimistic truth. National leaders pick themselves from amongst themselves. But if electoral politics has any force, it is in showing the elite the path we want.

So, vote for the candidates that genuinely share our goals.
 
 
-2 # Phillybuster 2016-11-05 14:11
Trump and his most rabid adherents don't believe in climate change or, if they do, don't believe human actions are a factor. Hillary is far from the best advocate for dealing with climate change but Trump is a complete know-nothing.

This will be the 16th Presidential election in which I have voted. I have never found the perfect candidate because he/she doesn't exist.

If somehow Jill Stein became POTUS, the purity trolls would be all over her within six months.
 
 
+6 # lorenbliss 2016-11-04 15:10
Has it occurred to anyone else we are perhaps witnessing the opening moves of a soft coup by factions of the Ruling Class who are rightfully terrified by Hillary's (Goldwater Girl/Christian fundamentalist) intent to bring about the Apocalypse?

(In which context it is perhaps useful to remember how, in the final six months or so of the Nixon Regime, the military in the person of Gen. Alexander Haig was actually running the country, making certain Tricky Dick didn't try to hide his crimes by starting World War III with the Soviet Union.)
 
 
+3 # Merlin 2016-11-04 16:25
lorenbliss 2016-11-04

“Has it occurred to anyone else we are perhaps witnessing the opening moves of a soft coup by factions of the Ruling Class…”

I hadn’t considered that. Currently my feeling is that the controlling powers exert pretty much total control over our politicians and the direction of the world. (For instance, I believe that the ME wars, ending with Iran, have been scripted, and are proceeding exactly as planned. There is nothing “out of control” happening, from our droning, to nuttyahoo doing what he is told…and which he agrees with.) I see HRC as the PTB choice because she is totally controllable…gi ve her a sniff of money and faux Presidential celebrity, and she will break both legs doing what she is told. Also, she will be surrounded by people who will control her, in the event that she tries to go “too far.” The PTB want to control the world, not destroy it. I consider her “fundamentalism ” as pursuit of that vote which normally goes rethug. (She must “win the election” so we the people can continue to maintain the fantasy of a Democracy…er…a Democratic dictatorship.) I don’t see her as having any religious beliefs, or much morality at all. Making Russia cower on bended knee? Yup. Apocalypse…no.

Yes, I would agree that there are power struggles at the top. Jt makes more sense to me that there will be negotiation rather than a coup. After all, those at the top of the heap all want the same thing (the ends). Only the “means” are debatable.
 
 
+5 # lorenbliss 2016-11-04 18:36
@Merlin: Except -- precisely as taught by the very history Hillary ignores -- Russia has never "cower(ed) on bended knee" to any conqueror. Mother Russia has cringed before some of her own despots, yes, but never to any invader of the Motherland.
 
 
-2 # Jaax88 2016-11-05 13:38
Never cower(ed)
I wonder what the Swedes would say when they owned Russia around 1700.
 
 
+2 # lorenbliss 2016-11-05 21:32
@Jaax88: Not for long. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
List_of_wars_between_Russia_and_Sweden

Note too it was Russia ended forever Sweden's imperial ambitions.
 
 
+5 # Radscal 2016-11-04 20:17
Check out the videos I posted below Loren's comment.

There are surely "palace revolts" at the top. Sometimes they're bloody, but this one is being explained as a "soft coup."

The real PTB would remain in power - at least for now.
 
 
+5 # Radscal 2016-11-04 20:14
OMG! I just watched a 3 min. video by Steve Pieczenik (high level government/inte lligence guy from the Ford Administration through GHW Bush) who said exactly that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ_CYS-KMjM

Here's a slightly longer explanation of his take on this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kZ4tBx_IZ4
 
 
-2 # ericlipps 2016-11-05 16:30
Quoting lorenbliss:
Has it occurred to anyone else we are perhaps witnessing the opening moves of a soft coup by factions of the Ruling Class who are rightfully terrified by Hillary's (Goldwater Girl/Christian fundamentalist) intent to bring about the Apocalypse?


Where the hell do you folks GET this stuff? Never mind the Goldwater Girl drivel about her politics of half a century ago; I'm talking about the "Christian fundamentalist" "bring about the apocalypse" nuttery. Don't you know the CF's hate her guts?
 
 
+1 # lorenbliss 2016-11-06 13:49
@ericlipps: Don't you read anything but Hillaryite propaganda? She is -- and has been for 24 years -- a regular attendee at The Family's women's bible-study group, the ideology of which is not only prosperity-gosp el fundamentalist but genuinely JesuNazi in its (biblically supported) clamor for the world to be tyrannized as an USian Fourth Reich.

References (if indeed your malice and closed-mindedne ss will allow you to read anything but Democratic [sic] Party handouts):

Jeff Sharlet, "The Family: the Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power" (Harper: 2008), especially pages 272-277;

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2007/09/hillarys-prayer-hillary-clintons-religion-and-politics

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barbara-ehrenreich/hillarys-nasty-pastorate_b_92361.html

http://www.religionandspirituality.com/view/post/12082179981585/Doug_Coe_the_Fellowship_Hillary_Clinton_and_Why_You_Should_Care/

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120746516
 
 
-2 # dascher 2016-11-04 16:26
Trump is a complete fool who knows nothing, cares about nothing except himself appearing to be the alpha male - great brain, great businessman, etc. etc. but apparently has no idea what has just come out of his mouth a moment after he's said it. He has the vocabulary of a 3rd grader, reflecting when he last read a book.

He is also a shameless liar, a thin skinned bloviator, a bully, and an amoral, disgusting excuse for a human being.

Ms. Clinton is a 1950's Republican. She knows what she is saying and has, on occasion, even apologized for what she has said (unlike Trump who has nothing to apologize for - in his very very good opinion). She's not delusional and her supposedly terrible crimes have been investigated ad nauseum with no indictments, let alone convictions. No criminal is that "lucky" or that "smart". Her "corruption" is a fiction that has been echoing around the right wing since she showed up in Arkansas. No serious 'conservative' believes any of that crap.

To those who believe that Trump would not get us into a war with Russia, I might accept that he would not do so knowingly. However, since he is so unbelievably ignorant and unintelligent, he is likely to do so unwittingly.

Reagan was scarey (remember his idiotic blatherings about what he did in WWII? or his 'start bombing Russia in 5 minutes' joke?); GW Bush was a scarey idiot but not delusional -he knew he was stupid; Trump is a scarey, delusional idiot who cannot be allowed to have power.
 
 
-2 # candida 2016-11-06 01:52
dascher, a very competent summary of the two candidates!
 
 
-4 # Jaax88 2016-11-04 16:58
It seems to me that many here who choose to vote for Stein/Green or are out and out anti-Hillary, that is supporting trump covertly or openly, are the next iteration of the "Good German." Ignoring the absolute clear and present danger of a person like Trump to our country and to us personally by turning a blind eye to his evil, destructive character is a failure of citizenship.

What will Trump do when the pressure is put on by competitors/ene mies of America? Start a war because he can't control his immature thoughts and emotions or grovel like a coward to phony strong men like Putin? If Trump wins, America will not have to worry about Russia as Trump will prove to be a Quisling as he is already on the way to becoming. What about the Chinese when they tell Trump to stuff it. The Chinese leaders are not wimps; they have been tested by their living conditions over centuries, their environment and system. They will not be cowed by Trump's attempts
to bully. They will work on his weak character. So what will Trump do when the Chinese say no to him? Call the Chinese names like ugly, slant eyed, yellow midgets similar to what he has said about his political rivals or reporters he does not like?
 
 
-5 # Jaax88 2016-11-04 17:04
Good Germans 2
So all the intelligent women who declare Stein or nothing and the guys who hatefully and wrongly blast Hillary as a murderer be careful of what you will get by voting your so-called conscience or hate for nothing but your self-satisfacti on. It will not be Stein or some hapless third party candidate. It will be someone you should fear.

I read that Trump has studied Hitler's writings/speech es. Does he take them seriously. I certainly do not know, but his approach to human relations is to take what you can from other people and attack the weak. And are you prepared for Melania to be FLOTUS? Yes she is an attractive woman and not doubt has her heart in the right place, however, someone who has to give scripted speeches written by others is not admirable to me. The ghost writers are so stupid they now have plagiarized parts of two speeches and this last one was so idiotic as to talk about how bad bullying is for the country, when her husband is the most prolific bully in the country without even recognizing how ironic or crass that is.

So all you "don't vote for Hillary fans" do not act surprised if trump and his wife are elected and the presidency sinks into thuggery, democracy loses its way and the country is run by authoritarians who won't mind getting their hands dirty and commit crimes against American citizens and residents. We have enough of that now in police departments around the country and in prisons and detention camps.
 
 
+7 # Radscal 2016-11-04 20:23
"I read that Trump has studied Hitler's writings/speeches."

Yeah, I read that, too. Supposedly, he keeps a copy of Mein Kampf in his nightstand or something like that.

Frankly, I don't think the guy's read a book in decades (if ever).
 
 
-3 # Jaax88 2016-11-04 17:08
Good Germans 3
So all you "don't vote for Hillary fans" do not act surprised if trump and his wife are elected and country sinks into thuggery, democracy loses its way and the country is run by authoritarians who won't mind getting their hands dirty and commit crimes against American citizens and residents. We have enough of that now in police departments around the country and in prisons and detention camps.

As Pastor Martin Niemoller wrote long ago:
“ First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

I am getting that feeling from trump's language and attacks on those he sees as hostile to him or he dislikes because he considers them to be lesser persons. Count me as someone who will speak out at the potential horror of a trump presidency and in support of those trump, his minions and thugs try to bully and dismiss as illegitimate persons.
 
 
-1 # candida 2016-11-06 01:46
You go, Jaax88! That you have net negative votes shows the number of Trump trolls on this site.
 
 
+3 # lorenbliss 2016-11-04 18:50
@Jaax88: "...those (Trump) sees as hostile to him or he dislikes...he considers them to be lesser persons..."

No doubt, just as Hillary considers anyone who is not Cosa-Nostra rich and Wall-Street omnipotent to be untermenschen, worthy only of exploitation for profit and then extermination when no longer profitable.

And apropos "democracy loses its way," that happened on 22 November 1963; everything since then -- all the additional assassinations and murders, the nullification of the Constitution, the conversion of "mainstream media" into the privetely-owned , for-profit equivalent of Josef Goebbels' Ministry of Propaganda -- has just been what the military calls a mopping-up operation, in this instance eliminating the remnants of our former (whites only) democracy.

Clearly, Dr. Jill Stein will not win the presidency. But if We the People can divorce ourselves from Moron Nation long enough vote for her, we might be able to expand her Green Party into truly effective resistance against capitalism and its wholly owned One Party of Two Names, i.e., Democratic (sic) and Republican. That's why I voted for Stein -- in Washington state we vote by mail with paper ballots -- and why so many people I know are doing likewise.
 
 
-4 # Jaax88 2016-11-04 19:37
Interesting, I delivered my mail in ballot in person to the courthouse in WA.

Say what you like, but before I would believe your accusation that she has no feelings for common people I would like to see some actual provable quotes of what she allegedly thinks along those lines.
 
 
+3 # Radscal 2016-11-04 20:24
It's not her quotes, Jaax. It's her record.
 
 
-1 # Jaax88 2016-11-05 13:45
Explain with details what you say her record is. Clearly I think much of the anti-Clinton rhetoric here is false or misrepresentati ons by cowardly anonymous RW (Trump) trolls.
 
 
+2 # Radscal 2016-11-05 15:52
For about the hundredth time:

As a senator she voted for:



a) Unlimited global war on terror (S J Res 23).



b) USA PATRIOT Act, 
and then twice more reauthorized and expanded it (HR 3162, HR 3199 Dec. 16, 2005, HR 3199 March 2, 2006).



c) Creation of the Department of Homeland Security
 the largest expansion of the Military Industrial Complex. (HR 5005) outside of WW II.



d) Invasion of Iraq 
(and all later authorizations to fund it “off the books”) (H J Res 114).



e) Bush II's NeoCon Artist appointments
:Condi Rice and Robert Gates. (PN 8, PN 2191).



f) Bush II's signature "No Child Left Behind" 
destruction and privatization of public education. (HR 1).



g) Like her hubby, she never met a "free trade" agreement she didn't love, and voted for 3 new ones. (HR 2739, S 3569, HR 3688).



h) Border Fence and Customs Appropriations (2480) 
that we all chided McCain over supporting.



i) Gulf of Mexico Energy Security Act (S 3711)
“Drill baby drill” sounds so much better when Hillary says it than when Palin did.


 
 
+1 # anthraxripple 2016-11-07 20:36
I'm sorry that you've had to do it a hundred times for these creeps, but, if it's ok with you, I've copied and pasted it. It's all true, well presented, and concise.
 
 
+3 # Radscal 2016-11-05 15:56


As Secretary of State, she brought the world:



a) Immediately maneuvered the coup in Honduras, calling it “legitimate” and then supported refusing asylum to all those children fleeing the violence (at least 10 of whom were murdered after we shipped them back to Honduras)

.

b) the bloody U.S. "interventions" to topple the governments of Libya, Sudan and Syria. 



c) the "troop surge" in Afghanistan. 



d) threatened to bomb Iran on numerous occasions (opposed Obama's attempts to work out the Iran deal, which didn't happen until she was out).



e) She brought back from the first Clinton Administration Victoria ("Yats is the guy…. F*ck the EU") Nuland as Asst. Sec. of State leading to the bloody coup and “civil war” in Ukraine.


f) Appointed Robert Ford as Ambassador to Syria, thus beginning the "protests" which led to the "civil war" for which she seeks to "regime change" their president, including through a no fly zone that the Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said would be a declaration of war against Russia.
 
 
+3 # Radscal 2016-11-05 15:58
And of course, many of those actions which I criticize were Republican, right-wing NeoCon plans.

That's why she has so many right-wing and NeoCon endorsements.
 
 
-2 # candida 2016-11-06 01:49
Radscal, I am inclined to believe your litany of abuses, violations and atrocities based on my knowledge of these things. I'm wondering, though, how many senators have a better voting record? Not many, I'm guessing. Why hold Clinton to a higher standard? I've also said before, if you're looking to bring down the empire through presidential elections, you're chasing the wrong strategy. It is, indeed, a sad state of political affairs when the only other viable presidential candidate is worse than the one you've just described. ericlane, below, states our dilemma well.
 
 
-1 # ericlane 2016-11-05 05:07
Vote Hillary or vote for the disaster that is Trump. That is your choice.
 
 
+1 # Radscal 2016-11-05 16:00
No thanks. I'm voting FOR someone who actually shares my progressive, anti-war and anti-Empire values.

Stein: 2016 for the whole earth.
 
 
0 # ericlipps 2016-11-05 16:33
That would be fine, if Jill had a hope in hell of getting elected. She doesn't.
 
 
+1 # anthraxripple 2016-11-07 20:37
Trump has a chance of getting elected. If I vote for him, that could prevent Clinton.

You're right. Guess I'll just vote for Trump instead.
 
 
0 # dquandle 2016-11-05 16:59
Animosity towards Hillary runs deep everywhere. She is a very dangerous, evil, vicious, corrupt, criminal, and staggeringly stupid candidate. If she loses it will be entirely her fault, because she and her loathsome DNC stole the primaries and pushed such a despicable candidate. If she wins we get WWIII. What a fucking bargain.
 
 
+1 # anthraxripple 2016-11-07 20:46
If she wins, she'll bring down what's left of the Democratic Party from the inside. We'll all take the blame for her, even if we didn't vote for her.
 

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