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Excerpt: "The Obama administration warned Monday that a judge's ruling last week blocking a statute authorizing the indefinite detention of terrorism suspects has jeopardized its ability to continue detaining certain prisoners captured during the war in Afghanistan. ... Bruce Afran, one of the attorneys representing the plaintiffs, argued that the government's 'concern is unfounded' because Judge Forrest's actual injunction 'does not touch' the government's separate powers under the authorization to use military force."

Obama abandoned a commitment to veto a new security law that allows the military to indefinitely detain without trial American terrorism suspects arrested on US soil who could then be shipped to Guantanamo Bay. (photo: Brennan Linsley/Reuters)
Obama abandoned a commitment to veto a new security law that allows the military to indefinitely detain without trial American terrorism suspects arrested on US soil who could then be shipped to Guantanamo Bay. (photo: Brennan Linsley/Reuters)


Government Files Emergency Appeal of NDAA Decision

By Charlie Savage, The New York Times

18 September 12

 

he Obama administration warned Monday that a judge's ruling last week blocking a statute authorizing the indefinite detention of terrorism suspects has jeopardized its ability to continue detaining certain prisoners captured during the war in Afghanistan.

In an emergency appeal of the ruling, the government asserted that United States District Court Judge Katherine B. Forrest went beyond enjoining the statute - enacted last year as part of the National Defense Authorization Act - and potentially curtailed detention powers it has been exercising for years under its interpretation of the authorization to use military force against the perpetrators of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

Judge Forrest's order "threatens irreparable harm to national security and the public interest by injecting added burdens and dangerous confusion into the conduct of military operations abroad during an active armed conflict," the government wrote in a 38-page filing with the federal appeals court in New York.

The motion focused on language used by Judge Forrest that rejected interpreting the original use-of-force authorization as including the ability to detain "substantial supporters" of Al Qaeda and the Taliban, as opposed to people who are actually part of those groups. The judge also called into question the idea that the United States could detain members or supporters of "associated forces" that had no involvement in the Sept. 11 attacks.

"If, following issuance of this permanent injunctive relief, the government detains individuals under theories of ‘substantially or directly supporting' associated forces, as set forth in" the National Defense Authorization Act, "and a contempt action is brought before this court, the government will bear a heavy burden indeed," she wrote.

The United States is holding about 50 non-Afghan prisoners, most of them Pakistani, at the Parwan detention facility at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan, as well several hundred Afghans. The legal imbroglio comes during a diplomatic tussle with the government of President Hamid Karzai over control of the Afghan prisoners.

The indefinite detention provision in the version of the annual National Defense Authorization Act enacted last year was contentious because lawmakers did not make clear whether American citizens could also be held without trial as wartime prisoners, and they did not specify what kinds of conduct constituted the "support" that could make someone detainable, nor which "associated forces" were off-limits.

Judge Forrest raised the question of how to interpret the original Authorization for Use of Military Force, or AUMF, passed by Congress in 2001 because the government argued that the National Defense Authorization Act did not expand the scope of its detention authority. But she disagreed, saying that the government's interpretation went beyond the text of the 2001 authorization.

The 2001 authorization and the new statute, she wrote, "are not the same; they are not co-extensive. Military detention based on allegations of ‘substantially supporting' or ‘directly supporting' the Taliban, Al Qaeda, or associated forces, is not encompassed within the AUMF and is enjoined by this order regarding the National Defense Authorization Act."

The lawsuit that led to the ruling by Judge Forrest, whom President Obama appointed to the Southern District of New York last fall, was brought by several journalists and activists, including Chris Hedges, a former reporter for The New York Times who interacts with terrorist groups as part of his reporting work, and several prominent supporters of WikiLeaks.

They say the statute's existence harms their First Amendment rights by creating a basis to fear that they might be detained under it. The Justice Department contends that they lack standing because they would not be detained under the statute for their activities – although earlier in the case, it initially refused to make such assurances.

The legal dispute in New York has opened a new chapter in years of wrangling by executive branch attorneys and judges in the District of Columbia circuit over the outer bounds of the government's authority to hold people, indefinitely and without trial, as wartime prisoners. The issue turns on how much and what kind of contact with Al Qaeda is sufficient to make someone on the fringes detainable - and, in some cases, targetable - a knotty problem in a war against a loose-knit, far-flung terrorist network.

The executive branch has long relied upon the authorization to use military force against the perpetrators of the Sept. 11 attacks, and those who harbored them, as the basis for its ability to detain people. It has applied judicial rulings about the scope of that authority from habeas corpus cases brought by detainees at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, to its detention operations in Afghanistan, where courts do not have jurisdiction.

Last year, Congress wrote a new statute codifying a definition of the scope of detention authority derived from the Guantánamo litigation. It said the United States could detain not only members of Al Qaeda and the Taliban, but also their substantial supporters as well as associated forces engaged in hostilities against the United States and its allies.

In issuing its ruling rejecting some of those categories, the administration said, the district court "has taken it upon itself to disagree with an interpretation of the military's detention authority that had previously been endorsed by all three branches of government. What is more, the district court expressly invites actions for contempt sanctions if the military exercises detention authority in a manner inconsistent with the court's deeply flawed understanding of that authority."

Judge Forrest had previously issued a preliminary injunction against enforcing the statute. While the government had appealed, it did not seek a stay of her preliminary order, which lacked the more expansive language.

But after she made the injunction permanent last week, the Obama administration immediately asked her for an emergency stay, arguing that she was making an "unprecedented" judicial intrusion into wartime matters. When she declined, the government signaled it would go straight to the appeals court.

Robert Chesney, a professor at University of Texas, Austin, who specializes in the laws of war, said that if the Second Circuit appeals court upholds the injunction - even if by narrowing its scope - rather than overturning it on standing grounds, it could potentially set up a split on detention authority with the more conservative District of Columbia appeals court.

That outcome could persuade the Supreme Court to intervene again on detention matters, something he said executive branch officials "don't want at this point because they can't do any better than they've done" with the District of Columbia circuit.

In an e-mail, Bruce Afran, one of the attorneys representing the plaintiffs, argued that the government's "concern is unfounded" because Judge Forrest's actual injunction "does not touch" the government's separate powers under the authorization to use military force.

"The general thrust of their argument seems to be that the president and the Congress are immune from judicial review," he said.

 

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+40 # SMoonz 2012-09-18 09:08
"The general thrust of their argument seems to be that the president and the Congress are immune from judicial review..." sounds like a Bush/ Cheney type argument.

How pathetic that the Obama Administration continues fighting to keep the Indefinite Detention clause.

What is equally pathetic is my fellow liberals who still continue to be apologists and are willing to forgive the President on such an attack on liberty.
 
 
+30 # Small Family Farmer 2012-09-18 11:19
At this point I'm not sure we're apologists who are "willing to forgive the President on such an attack on liberty." I think we're becoming liberals who are aware that if the meat puppet Romney is elected then basically game over without a revolution.

Since I've yet to read about a revolution that didn't get nasty with a lot of innocent people hurt or killed I'd really like it if we could take a pass on that sort of action.

We, the people, stand a chance of influencing an Obama administration. Not a chance in Hades of having any influence on a Romney administration.

Yet another election of choosing between the lesser of two evils. Sucks to be us right now.
 
 
+12 # Erdajean 2012-09-18 12:25
How pathetic is right! It would seem to this non-apologist that Mr. Obama is afraid he might win this coming election, so he is making sure to alienate as many people who love the Constitution and democracy as he possibly can.

What better way to appall and get rid of us than to insist upon his "right" to imprison us forever, for no more than expressing some opinion in conflict with his Bush-clone ideals of human rights?

Who on earth is giving him such advice? Karl Rove? This is just plain ludicrous.
 
 
+1 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-18 14:03
Imprison Us what are you talking of...If he wanted to imprison us for railing at him, for degrading a President He surely could have Yet I am not imprisoned.

I believe as did the Judge, that the wording should be re evaluated so as to stand up to Criticism if challenged. I agree with her. Too many Laws, not enough interpreters? Or too many interpretations as seems fit on that day.

If OB doesnot like her decisions than perhaps he should with legal personnas, review the laws and make them more readable, understanding to those who may need to get an Atty due to prosecution by them.

The Consitution as good as it is, can be somewhat see sawish as we have seen with the some of the Idiots that are supposed to interpret it.

Again I believe you all want him do do everything for you...however, it is not possible to please everyone, everytime they jump up and down? Let us get thru the Election and I will expect to see you and so many others on here start organizing to save the USA from itself. See you in say January to reinvent some wheels. That goes for all of you...start figuring out what we need to change, get some meetings started. People do it every day. There is a Fracking Day in Phila coming up ...are you goin to be there or do you think it won't affect you????
Put your money where your mouth is..or at least your ideas put forward so we can all work together.
 
 
-2 # robniel 2012-09-18 15:33
As a child I looked through the fence at Italian POWs in Camp Kilmer (NJ). They were detained and housed humanely until the end of WWII. Today, Guantanamo is a similar facility, a cross between a POW camp and a prison. Because Congress did not declare war, it's not a POW camp under the Geneva Convention. A number of detainees who were released have been re-captured on the battlefield. Essentially, the detainees are treated as POW prisoners, but since there will never be a formal "end" to jihadism, the problem becomes what to do with them. Many have been refused entry into their home nations. Do we try to apply civil law to these former combatants? They certainly should not have the rights of U.S. citizens. When jihads cease to occur I'm sure they will be released. Until then ... ?
 
 
+24 # fishmother 2012-09-18 10:54
Yes, there may be the room to use "...military force against the perpetrators of the Sept. 11 attacks, and those who harbored them, as the basis for its ability to detain people" but if we are to differentiate ourselves from those who pervert the meaning of Democracy such as those suspected of participating in 9/11, then detention should be for the purpose of holding a trial to determine guilt or innocence of the individual detainees. I voted to put President Obama in office because I loathed the un-American policies that Bush/Cheney exercised and here he is, after all this time, replicating their dehumanizing policies. By dehumanizing I do not just refer to the condition of the prisoners, but the electorate he failed to honor with this policy.
 
 
+12 # hjsteed 2012-09-18 11:41
For more information about the causes and effects of 911, watch the video at http://www.change.org/groups/architects_engineers_for_911_truth on 911 Explosive Evidence and sign the petition there asking President Obama to reconsider his detention, torture and assassination policies and legal/moral position.

Also please note that only one PBS station has broadcast the 911 Explosive Evidence video and no other major media source, including Reader Supported News.
 
 
+13 # Erdajean 2012-09-18 12:40
Thank you, hjsteed, for mentioning the Colorado Public TV video -- which, as you say, has gotten NO mention anywhere else, not even in the articles of RSN. It was in one of the comments here that some of us learned of it, and watched it, and our thoughts on what happened on 9/11/2001 are far better informed than ever before.
I hope this link still works:
CPT12.org/video/2270078138.
If not, everyone PLEASE go to CPT12.org and find another way to see it. It's
amazing -- and it's horrifying that no investigation has ever been allowed to bring out the truth -- and lead to justice for the millions of dead, injured and otherwise destroyed.
 
 
+5 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-18 14:05
Here is something you can start organizing. Work with the group to see that everyone can see the linkage.
 
 
+1 # futhark 2012-09-18 18:23
I watched it following a link from the Yahoo group 9-11-NeXuS. There is far more skepticism of the orthodox Cheney/Bush "19 Islamic Extremists With Box Cutters" explanation for the 9/11 attacks among libertarians and tea partiers than there is in the so-called "Progressive" community. The tea partiers are, in general, trying to be alert to cases in which their bogeyman "Big Government" has exceeded its legitimate bounds of authority and have, I am certain, found it in the 9/11 attacks. Liberals and progressives need to be at least equally skeptical of the 9/11 hoax as their supposed opponents, the libertarians and paleo-conservat ives. Yes, you might have to wade through a lot of birther hoakum to find the information, but it's easier to find there than at sites that are committed to unconditional support of the Obama Administration.
 
 
+20 # DPM 2012-09-18 11:52
This is not a Republican or Democratic issue. It is not about a Romney or Obama administration. It is about a government and it's citizen's. Do NOT "trust" the government to do the "right" thing. It will always do what benefits those in power. Their feet must be held to the fire! When the president signed this repugnant NDAA, he said he did so reluctantly. BULL! If you want to vote for him, fine. But, don't sit back and allow him to get away with this. And, if you honestly believe he won't abuse the NDAA, remember this, he won't be president forever!
 
 
+10 # Hot Doggie 2012-09-18 11:58
Just remember, We-The-People have the final say on this as well as any other issue. Even if the US Supreme Court rules against us, we can overrule their position. All power is vested in WTP. WTP wrote the laws in the US Constitutionand Bill of Rights by way of extention from our forefathers.

"[T]he administration said, the district court "has taken it upon itself to disagree with an interpretation of the military's detention authority that had previously been endorsed by all three branches of government." Key words are, "had previously been endorced". So the gov't admin is saying that it always had the authority to detain US citizens???

No wonder police are abusing WTP for frivolous acts: they think courts will back them up. Time to change that.

Thank God for Judge Forrest: she called it correctly. We should send letters to Judge Forrest thanking her for her adjudication in this matter.
 
 
-2 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-18 14:09
Again anyone who wants to start organizing meetings should. There are various subjects we are not happy with and the President should face them after re election...but no one is going to do it for you.
Most of us are tired for having to do it to begin with....with no help just sand heads griping.

Yes I believe the Government had rights to do anything they want as has been proven over and over. This law just seems as Judge Forrester said a better wording so that we know who can be detained, if found not to be linked to terrorism, they, must be released.
 
 
+12 # James Smith 2012-09-18 12:12
WHat the government wants is the power to detain anyone at any time for any reason or no reason at all. Driver's License expired? You must be a terrorist so off you go. No bail, no habeas corpus, no charges, just another "enemy" of the government has disappeared.

"So long Amerika, it was good to know ye."
 
 
-3 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-18 14:10
Sorry I really do not read it like that at all. But I do believe some of the holes should be sown with better wording.
However, that will be dismantled by the next Lawyer or Judge.

Too many of our Laws have too wide of loopholes, that just makes the victims have to pay the leeches more to defend us from the cretins.
 
 
+8 # RHytonen 2012-09-18 12:27
I consider myself more "liberal" than anyone here - and I do NOT forgive it.

I will be voting for Stein/Honkala.

(Of course here WV, my vote doesn't count. The omly candidtes to ever ruun n elections are Republicans. My neighbors appear to only ever have heard Limbaugh/Beck, 24/7, for GENERATIONS. And they never will listen to anything else. Racism, more through isolation, ignorance and hearsay, than from ever having actually seen or met a person of color. They don't even seem to know what Judaism is. "You're a Jew? What's that? But...you still worship Jesuschrist, right?")
 
 
0 # KittatinyHawk 2012-09-18 14:12
Lots of places like that. The Newspaper around here has less of education than a stew bum for informing people....and the Politicians aren't looking for any upgrade in future.

Pa like many other States thrive on Stupidity...and that makes them the Stupid ones....
 
 
+7 # tigerlille 2012-09-18 13:24
This is insuufferable! The constitution of the United States is jeaprodizing the ability of the Obama administration to wage war lawlessly!!! I am so glad we have a constitutional scholar as president.
 
 
0 # futhark 2012-09-18 18:24
;-)
 
 
+7 # David Starr 2012-09-18 13:25
Quoting: "The Obama administration warned Monday that a judge's ruling last week blocking a statute authorizing the indefinite detention of terrorism suspects has jeopardized its ability to continue detaining certain prisoners captured during the war in Afghanistan."

How long does Obama want to detain these prisoners? Is it absolutely necessary? This is sounding kind of Bushy. To hell with the NDAA. (Although Repubs probably like it.)
 
 
+7 # tigerlille 2012-09-18 13:28
And what is with that Obama appointee Judge Forrester actually daring to think independently and rule in favor of abiding by the constitution??? By God, that woman had better start toeing the line!
 
 
+5 # RobertMStahl 2012-09-18 13:35
Can you not see this pattern (of the Old Guard) for what it is apprehending the toys of a false legitimacy? Where is Indira Singh? We need a investigation of 9/11, not a cover up. 9/11 was equivalent to Y2K which was nothing except that it was part of the selfsame agenda we monkeys call our species, whether bonobos, chimps, or something more queer.
 
 
+7 # Celeste 2012-09-18 15:56
It's important to give The People the illusion of a choice, the illusion that they still live in a Democratic Republic even as all around them decisions are being made behind closed pro-corporate doors that affect the food they eat, the likelihood that their children will be well-educated (or educated at all), the safety of their air, water, and agricultural soils, added to the propensity for violent forms of blowback. These could well impact the Homeland due to so many foreign wars with the lives of others held so cheaply.

It is a sad day for our land... as each presidential administration seems to have run with the pro-corporate ball so that both have surreptitiously worked to slip-slide our liberties (along with necessary checks and balances on power) away.
 
 
+1 # noitall 2012-09-19 15:29
When we see conniving like this in order to maintain the new status quo (especially with something so dastardly) I tend to look for the REAL reason. Is Barack planning something so outrageous that he expects his citizenry to turn into "terrorists" in their outrage?! Watching Barack in Cincinnati was reminiscent of his first run. He says it all and says it right, which makes you destrust him more because you know that he knows what is right for the country but he follows his masters regardless. In all my over 40 years of voting I have never had such a lousy, distasteful choice and haven't felt worse about myself than how I feel voting for him to avoid another. Its like voting to step in a dog turd to avoid stepping in a cat turd. There are so many better candidates running that not enough of us hear about in order to ever expect them to get close to a win. And win "we" must so that we can again try to save this Republic. Americans had better smarten up or they'll no longer be Americans but "sponsored by (your favorite corporation)", and/or "terrorists".
 
 
0 # RobertMStahl 2012-10-04 08:50
Catherine Austin Fitts is just great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP6rny-E1Cw
 

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