Gertz reports: "Mike Vanderboegh recently predicted that if the Supreme Court declared the health care reform bill to be constitutional, it would lead to violent insurrection against 'government tyranny.'"
The justices of the US Supreme Court, 10/08/11. (photo: Pablo Martinez Monsivais/AP)
An Armed Insurrection Over Health Care Decision?
01 July 12
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ike Vanderboegh, the ex-militia blogger who calls himself one of the "midwives" of the Operation Fast and Furious scandal, recently predicted that if the Supreme Court declared the health care reform bill to be constitutional, it would lead to violent insurrection against "government tyranny."
The blogger posted the statements, which come from a recent unpublished interview, the same day the House of Representatives voted to find Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt over his unwillingness to release documents related to Fast and Furious.
In the excerpts Vanderboegh posted on his blog "which deal with the decision today," he says of a then-potential decision upholding the health care law, "You may call tyranny a mandate or you may call it a tax, but it still is tyranny and invites the same response." He further predicts the response of his ilk: "If we refuse to obey, we will be fined. If we refuse to pay the fine, we will in time be jailed. If we refuse to report meekly to jail, we will be sent for by armed men. And if we refuse their violent invitation at the doorsteps of our own homes we will be killed - unless we kill them first. ... I am on record as advocating the right of defensive violence against a tyrannical regime."
Vanderboegh gained fame in 2010 when he urged his readers to respond to the passage of health care reform by breaking the windows of Democratic offices, then took credit after vandals struck several such offices. The Alabama-based blogger has previously been part of the militia and Minuteman movements, and leads the Three Percenters, a group which claims to represent the three percent of gun owners who "who will not disarm, will not compromise and will no longer back up at the passage of the next gun control act" but will instead, "if forced by any would-be oppressor, ... kill in the defense of ourselves and the Constitution."
Vanderboegh was one of the first to break the story that ATF whistleblowers said that they had been ordered to knowingly allow gun trafficking suspects to take weapons across the border into Mexico. The operation was intended to allow law enforcement to identify other members of the trafficking network that for years has directed assault weapons into the hands of Mexican cartels, with the goal of bringing those cartels down. He has said that he and a fellow blogger were the "midwives of the scandal" who introduced the whistleblowers to congressional investigators. He has theorized that the operation was part of a secret plot against the Second Amendment directed from the highest levels of government.
Last year Fox repeatedly hosted Vanderboegh on their air to provide expert commentary on the story. Then in November, four Georgia men were arrested in connection with an alleged plot to kill federal employees and civilians using explosives and the biological agent ricin. According to the criminal complaint against him, one of the alleged domestic terrorists repeatedly cited Vanderboegh'snovel Absolved as the inspiration for their plot. Media subsequently noted that Vanderboegh had, in the words of the Associated Press, "appeared as a commentator on Fox News Channel." He has not done so since.
Vanderboegh's exchange with the unnamed reporter from today's blog post:
Question: You said in an interview with the Washington Post that a handful of Americans "are armed and are capable of making such resistance possible and perhaps even initiating a civil war." Would you support a civil war over health care law?
"Initiating a civil war" is a misquote. All of my work has been focused on preventing a civil war by making the clueless understand that one is possible. Their Weltanschauungs prevent it. I'm trying to get them to understand that we are in fact two countries now. We share a common language (most of us) and border, but we disagree on the critical question that the Founders answered with defensive violence against King George's violence - shall the people serve the government of the government serve the people? Does it matter if we agree on traffic laws or the rules by which our kids play soccer if we disagree on something so fundamental? The health care law carries with its meeching platitudinous promises the hard steel fist of government violence at the center. If we refuse to obey, we will be fined. If we refuse to pay the fine, we will in time be jailed. If we refuse to report meekly to jail, we will be sent for by armed men. And if we refuse their violent invitation at the doorsteps of our own homes we will be killed - unless we kill them first. It is Nancy Pelosi who first plunked the threat of violence on the table like Goering reaching for his revolver. How should principled, free people react to such threats? I am on record as advocating the right of defensive violence against a tyrannical regime. The Founders would agree. If someone on the street threatens to break into my house and steal my property or kill me, and I tell them, "If you do this, you will be killed," am I the violent one? Or is it merely good manners to warn the miscreant of the probable outcome?
I was once asked by a gun prohibitionist my thoughts on his desire for my disarmament. I began to explain as best I could and he cut me off with an impatient, "Give me the short answer." "Okay," I said after pausing briefly, "If you try to take our firearms we will kill you." He left quickly, muttering oaths about my sanity. Yet you will get the same answer from that other half of the country that such people make no attempt to understand, only deride and name-call. Such ignorance can get a whole lot of people killed. That is the point I'm trying to get across. If the Constitution as crafted by the Founders and the rule of law no longer applies, that is, if we now have the law of the jungle, then my half of the country is far better prepared to live and thrive in that jungle others force into than they are. Another formulation: If the rule of law no longer protects us from government tyranny, it no longer protects that tyranny and its acolytes from us. It is a two-way street and I hope desperately that Nancy Pelosi and her ilk understand that before it is too late.
Question: What are your thoughts about how the Supreme Court will rule on health care Thursday? What do you see as the potential implications of its decision?
See above. If the individual mandate is upheld, me and a few million of my friends will not comply and we will make ourselves so obnoxious in our refusal that sooner or later some government agent is going to try to kill us. Because the one thing a tyrant cannot tolerate is the example of someone being unafraid and saying "No." It's a bad example for the rest of the sheep and might encourage noncompliance. When that happens, you have only to read history to predict the outcome. To believe anything else is to whistle past the graveyard of history.
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President Hillary will, no doubt, continue and escalate this bloody record of wealth redistribution to the top 1% and mass murder abroad.
Trump's Neo-fascism will simply finish off what all the previous war criminal administrations set in motion.
Why is the spotlight constantly shone on the enemy-of-the-we ek but never on the chosen winner? The continued bleating of danger hype would be more believable if the same people weren't so assiduously ignoring Her Worshipfulness' problems.
Why aren't we hearing about Clinton's possible health problems? Is anyone trying to verify or deny these claims? Would rsn tell us if they were? Where is the balance anywhere?
Americans are supposed to be honest, inventive, brave, adventurous, straightforward . What happened to our country?
Oligarchs, that's what. A precious few on NYC's UES and elsewhere who decide their limo's minibar upgrade is more important than hungry kids or crumbling bridges or jobs. They, like the many fatuous pundits who spout off for them, have decided that all this great country's resources should go to them, while the rest of us fight over crumbs.
I understand the impulse. Most of us, as beneficiaries of the robber barons' fortunes, would find a way to justify using our power and influence to gain more and more.
But I think at some point most of us would, wisely, say, Wow, I'm pretty happy with that. I should relax. Get to know my family again. Get a hobby.
But no. They are, instead, a bunch of inbred megalomaniacal sociopaths who think, despite abounding evidence, that they're qualified to run things.
What a bunch of inept morans. THIS is the best they can do?
Oligarch: Oh look! I won! I have EVERYTHING!
Dying Friend: But we're all dead. You're the only one left .... (gasp)
Oligarch: (looks around) Oh. (looks around) But who will wipe my bum?
These people THINK they're brilliant but they are not. Also not brilliant, the fools who buy it hook, line and sinker. HRC has ALREADY told us Superpredator Bill is going to be in charge of the economy, so she gets the military. She's telegraphing war, TPP, fracking.
Would you vote for a donkey if they told you to? Geez.
Moran oligarchs are shoving Hillary: Warrior Princess down our throats. That really makes me NOT want to do that.
Trump is a pig in a poke, yes. But Hillary is a known commodity, literally. Maybe if we can all chip in and BUY HILLARY from the oligarchs and make her work for us we might have a chance but otherwise we should be plenty worried about what's coming.
And the 'rulers', the ones pulling HRC's and everybody else's strings? Unfit to rule. We need to weaken them and this is a good opportunity to do that.
I often feel blind going in to some elections where there are a lot of judges running, say, who I don't know much about. I'm embarrassed to admit I sometimes vote for the letter or the gender if I'm not informed and that's a stupid way to vote. Sometimes there are no opponents. I need to find out what my options are if it turns out they're a bad candidate.
Recently Chaka Fattah lost his primary after allegations of financial misconduct and trial. (He was found guilty on almost all counts.) After 22 years and a lot of affection Philadelphia voters kicked him out. Good for them.
I think all of us are WEARY TO TEARS of this corruption and greed, these politicians who enable all manner of mischief against the citizens. They are too corrupt to feel shame. And the ones who still have a conscience should listen to it. Expose the system.
This is a propitious moment. Bernie has exposed their weakness and gathered the troops. The oligarchs have sent out their champion, HRC, and she is using her Fool as a smokescreen.
We can't fall for this again because next time they'll make it even harder to overthrow them. We need to get rid of this parasitic ultraminority. They are bleeding us dry.
Each of us needs to learn about our local elections.
As usual, you've got the whole dreadful thing pegged. You're embarrassed? I'd say you're human, doing the best you and I've done the same thing regarding local elections.
Weary to tears is right. And you can add a few exclamation marks for good measure. Weary with what begins to feel like Sisyphean labors but labors which we can't afford to give up on.
Propitious, yes. If enough of us seize this moment with our ballots for all elections.
At least we know Putin is healthy and energetic. Maybe Hillary should adopt some of his practices.
Are you serious or is this a sick joke? Putin is totalitarian to the core - product of KGB and Soviet Union.
Re Trump's status as a fascist, see Merriam-Webster 's second definition of that term.
Trump (Der Drumpf) is the embodiment of
all that is to be dreaded in a NEO-fascist renewal of anti-democratic authoritarianis m,reckless militancy, bigotry, xenophobia, misogyny, racist false sense of 'supremacy' ,& belligerent lack of empathy towards other human beings.
Mr Reich knows exactly the meaning of fascism - neo and otherwise.
# its authoritarianism
# its overt muzzling of dissent
# its denial of democracy
# its personal cruelty
# its contempt for national self-determination
Obama ticks only two of those boxes incontrovertibl y - his pursuit of whistleblowers is overt muzzling of dissent and his continued pursuit of permanent war to change regimes in Africa and the Middle East is contempt for national self-determinat ion. Hillary Clinton is similar but threatens physical destruction of the population of America itself and the rest of the world by extending permanent war to nuclear-armed Russia.
ISIS ticks all five of the boxes. I would share Jimmyjames' uncertainty whether the wily Donald Trump is a fascist.
For me, Obama's cruelty is paramount. His determination to overthrow the government of Syria no matter what the cost to innocent civilians goes down in the world book of records as cruelty. Why can't he just give up the regime change idea?
America is a very authoritarian nation for everyone other than white people. African Americans are harrassed by the police daily. Immigrants often live in terror of the police. Mexicans or others who look as if they may not have citizenship papers are often harassed. There are 2.5 million people in prison and another 15 million on parole, probation, or some other form of criminal justice control. Half of African Americans have a felony convictions which means they've lost many civil rights.
Nationalism is rampant in the "exceptional nation." The US does not abide by any international laws it chooses to violate just because it is the #1 Nation.
But none of this gets to the real heart of fascism which is the corporate control of the state. Fascism is anti-democratic because corporations control the government and use it for their own goals. War is often one of those goals. The wars are resource wars.
On this last point, Hillary is 100 times more fascistic than Trump.
Trump is a populist, or at least his campaign is playing that role. I don't want to confuse populism with fascism.
There are many parallels between the rise of Trump and that of Hitler. It was the support of greedy German and American industrialists and bankers in the early days that helped Hitler eventually take over.
The great good change in Americans is why Clinton is foolish if she thinks she can win and then do what she really wants. And whatever the reason that most Americans are reluctant to directly criticize Obama for trying to push through TPP in the lame duck session, this evil effort will have so many people curse him far into the future if he succeeds. The objection to the TPP must be open and aimed at Clinton and Obama, or the right wing fascists (corporatists and banksters with no scruples at all) will have the best chance of taking over the country.
I wouldn't quite call it "open revolt" YET -- except for Trump's followers, and there's the rub.
Unfortunately?
This doesn't sound realistic at all to me!
Well, we seem to be doing a pretty good job of it. With a lot of help from politicians, rampant election fraud, and the main stream media.
In other words, as difficult it may be to accept, Ron Paul was right. But so was Denis Kucinich. And so is Elizabeth Warren. As is Ellen Brown and all and any who want the Federal Reserve replaced with community, public banking.
As it was once said:
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."
quote attributed to Thomas Jefferson
"U.S. Considers Its Citizens Cowards"
By Dmitry Orlov Via SomethingFeelsWrong
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article45326.htm
General paranoia? Perhaps, though that is the standard operating procedure of the MSM. They expect us to be paranoid of anything un-American. The American MSM is beyond childish and most are so sacred witless of the powers that be, i.e. the monetary system.
https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/114/x418
But PopVox continues:
"Last Friday, the Obama administration issued formal notice to Congress of intent to sign the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), by submitting a draft statement of administrative action [SAA]."
The needs, desires, and opinions of the American public are *way* down on the government's list of priorities.
1. Tedrey,
Say WHAT?? Virtually everyone is against this thing and Obama's going with it--ANYWAY?!
2. BB,
When I moved back stateside all I knew was that the Rebubs were finally out and a Dem was finally in the W H., so everything was supposed to be ok, right? And for the same reasons you gave.
3. eco,
Ditto. Granted, I'm still not a Repub. But I'm learning the hard and agonizing way that labels and don't necessarily mean shit.
Thanks for listing the website. I never heard of it before. Would it do any good to register and say that I'm against it? Although, if it's already 97% against ...
Damn. And damn Obama. Never, in a million lifetimes did I think I'd say that. Or that he'd put me in the position to say that.
Obama, be very careful, my brother. Not one soul escapes karma.
So who are the crushed ones? everybody who feels denied access to the goodies of life.
The 'Losers' of Trumps's universe. Yes, there are equal and opposite reactions. And nobody knows when the more powerful reactions are coming, but most assuredly the have-nots will 'get even'.
As lazy and comfort-loving as I am, I can't believe that all the speedboat rides, helicopter views, trips to foreign lands, attention of beautiful women...how could the life of privilege ever compensate for the feeling of walking around with a large target on your shirt?
You're point is....
Here's Reich talking about Trump soaking up the media while contributing to soak up the media with more Trump.
You know, I gotta tell ya: I think it's quite amazing I have to explain myself all the time on this site(?) Seems like a lot of great thinkers here, and then... "What are you talking about? Must be nefarious!!!"
Ya, Trump Trump Trump and more Trump.
FCS
"Trump. Trump. Trump. Trump. Trump. Trump. What do you think?"
I saw 6 of them, and thought to myself, "Gee! How many more could there be?", and then, BOOM! Out came SEVEN!
I got chills!
Vogonity? Ok, I had to google that one. Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy, I've read. To the Universe, I haven't. Thus, what you've said makes zero sense to me right now.
...except your last line. Which I gather is your well made point.
Y'all crack this gal up! :-)
Roger Ailes is 76
Donald Trump is 70
Hillary Clinton is 69
These people will NOT be doing this "decades" into the future.
In 10 years, the demographic shifts will make baby boomers look like dinosaurs, and their "me" generation selfishness will give rise (out of necessity) to a dominant demographic concerned with providing basic necessities for all of us and dealing with the profit-driven mess the baby boomers caused (more than any other generation in history - especially considering the fact that they did this while better information was available).
My children will inherit a terrible mess to clean up, but they're the only ones whose slate is actually clean enough to do it - and they AIN'T conservatives.
Trump's nomination is a good thing (even IF Clinton was largely behind it). It showcases the stupidity of the far right, and just how far it's driven itself away from objective reality.
Hillary, on the other hand, won't be governing more than another 8 years, but the wake of her legacy WILL haunt us for decades to come. We're at a turning point, and rather than pulling away from the waterfall in front of us, Hillary is saying "FULL STEAM AHEAD!"
You know, the more of this I read, the more I want to say fuck you.
Perhaps BB meant only those specific baby boomers?
What a macabre inheritance, which I fear might go beyond a mess. A mess suggests that something-one is actually still there. I fear a complete absence, i.e., nada, rien, nichts, zilch.
As I looked at the ages you listed, my thought(s): Please bear in mind that increasingly advanced years guarantee nothing. I don't know the expiration dates of any of the people you've listed. By the same token, Biden outlived his son. My mom will be 82 early next month and is still a very active activist who outlived her 1st born.
What I do know, for me: Write Bernie in, or go for Stein. With either Hillary Trump or Donald Clinton we're black-burnt toast.
The conglomerated corporate media will continue to get worse regardless of Trump's further existence. Meanwhile Clinton is leading the "fascist movement that will haunt America for decades". Her "gold standard" trade agreement(s) will give big business authority over government. That will result in leading fascism into environmental collapse. And she will continue to be a warmonger, and she will continue to pressure Russia and China. Given the "dystopian future" we can expect from HRC, even Donald Trump will likely "look responsible by comparison".
Gee, I wonder what he would call it? Just kidding. Pretty sure it would be something like TrumpTV or Trump Multimedia.
Trump Multimedia. That's not a recurring nightmare. That's a recurring night terror.
I mean this literally: well said, Sherlock.
I want to see more articles about Jill Stein...and Gary Johnson. Voters have the right to get to know the candidates. I remember the days when political ad space or air time were given equally to all candidates, including third party candidates.
Dr. Reich, here is an article that you might want to read: http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/08/19/roaming-charges-prime-time-green/
It's about Jill Stein, Ajamu Baraka, and the Green Town Hall that aired on CNN on August 17, 2016.
Please repeat this every day. It can't be said too often.
The movement you refer to is not "neo" and it's not "Trump's".
It's been around for centuries, and it has already destroyed America.
What are you going to do about it?
Shill for Hill?
Make it worse, why don't you?
Of course because of tribalism or whatever, he has broad support from conservatives now but after he loses the election, he will become as boring as before. If he does form a network, it will be obscure, like Limbaugh's fan base.
The two party system is really screwed up, giving so much power to such a small slice of the population and our perceptions aren't accurate. It feels like half the population sometimes when looking at the media.
Another demographic shift is that, since 1980, the percentage of whites without college degrees has shrunk by a LOT. Whites without college degrees are the conservative base, in a nutshell.
You should stop talking about that which you know nothing about, son.
I do not understand him campaigning further, and especially against someone. If you cant say something good about hillary then perhaps say nothing.Instead , How about comments on Joseph Stiglitz pronouncing neoliberalism dead? Thats great news that trumps these lousy big party candidates.
People with a grudge...are they always wrongwingers? And the hopeful ones, the ones who are future-oriented ...are they always the lefties?
Are those guys still really angry that they lost the Civil War? is that what it's really about?
That's not to say that it's not about racism and xenophobia, much of it is. The racism in the South today looks very much like the racism in Chicago or in Michigan or Ohio or even the Northeast. It's also about cultural division and liberals calling red state voters uneducated, stupid and racist. Even though that's not entirely inaccurate by the looks of things. If someone is insulting you like this, why would you align with their politics? Especially since the Democrats abandoned Labor years ago. It's really a dilemma.
There's a best seller out called 'Hillbilly Elegy' I'm planning on getting it. It sounds like it gets into it with some depth. Written by an insider.
You say the most extraordinary things.
For the 1000th time, Fascism is about the control of government by corporations. They use the structure of a democratic government for purely corporate goals. A big part of this is the for-profit wars the US has been running since the end of WW II. The "military-indus trial-banking-i sraeli complex" is pure fascism. Call it "neo" if you like.
With this defintion, Hillary is much much more of a neo-fascist than Trump ever has been. The very fact that he's against the TPP, NAFTA, and off-shoring ofr production means he is not a fascist at all.
A lot of smart people like Reich, Krugman, Sanders, Warren and others have chosen to be stupid just to elect Hillary. They expect all of us to follow along. Why is that not neo-fascism? Heil HIllary!!!!!
Well, you sure know how to make a statement that gets everyone opposed. I can but assume you are bucking for a Cabinet-level post in her administration. You'd look good in a black uniform, but can you goosestep?
I think you've lost it, Mr. Reich. Hillary is the Third Reich reborn. Not that Trump is a jewel of democracy, but nothing indicates he is as fascistic as she is - nor a killer nor a crook.
If we actually had a liberal party in America, would address the needs of the Tea Party and explain why what is happening in America is happening. Unfortunately, we do not have a liberal party in America, we have the Democratic Party.
There were so many hopes when Obama was elected. Many people like myself who voted for him (twice) thought that he was going to lead the Democratic Party back the days of FDR or become even more liberal than that. Instead, Obama surrounded himself with advisers from Goldman Sachs and basically continued all of the economic and foreign policies of George W. Bush. Honestly, I see little difference, except for their I.Q. scores and rhetoric.
To me, Obama has been the biggest letdown in the history of the United States. Millenials have let him off the hook and his approval ratings are sky high for an exiting POTUS, but I have no idea why. Obama has been a major disappointment as far as I'm concerned.
We have an executive, in the form of the presidency, a legislative with senate and house of representatives , and a judiciary in the form of the Supreme Court that have acquired and disseminating fascistic tendencies in collusion with globalist/corpo rate/zionist interests to the point that peoples' wishes are roundly dismissed and ignored, while corrupting the very fabric of government and turning it into a useless instrument, useful only for the 1% and totally anathema for the rest of us.
Dr. Reich never mentions or discusses these realities while using dismissive verbiage such as "xenophobic" or "isolationist" whenever people express concerns for the creeping tentacles of globalism and that the damage that it visits on the country and its people.