RSN Fundraising Banner
FB Share
Email This Page
add comment
Print

Eisler reports: "The US government is building a treatment plant to stabilize and contain 56 million gallons of waste left from a half-century of nuclear weapons production. The radioactive sludge is so dangerous that a few hours of exposure could be fatal. A major leak could contaminate water supplies serving millions across the Northwest."

As much as 1.7 trillion gallons of contaminated wastes were dumped into unlined soil trenches at Hanford during the Cold War years. (photo: CongressmanAdamSmith.com)
As much as 1.7 trillion gallons of contaminated wastes were dumped into unlined soil trenches at Hanford during the Cold War years. (photo: CongressmanAdamSmith.com)



Hanford: America's Nuclear Nightmare

By Peter Eisler, USA Today

25 January 12

even decades after scientists came here during World War II to create plutonium for the first atomic bomb, a new generation is struggling with an even more daunting task: cleaning up the radioactive mess.

The U.S. government is building a treatment plant to stabilize and contain 56 million gallons of waste left from a half-century of nuclear weapons production. The radioactive sludge is so dangerous that a few hours of exposure could be fatal. A major leak could contaminate water supplies serving millions across the Northwest. The cleanup is the most complex and costly environmental restoration ever attempted.

A USA TODAY investigation has found that the troubled, 10-year effort to build the treatment plant faces enormous problems just as it reaches what was supposed to be its final stage.

In exclusive interviews, several senior engineers cited design problems that could bring the plant's operations to a halt before much of the waste is treated. Their reports have spurred new technical reviews and raised official concerns about the risk of a hydrogen explosion or uncontrolled nuclear reaction inside the plant. Either could damage critical equipment, shut the facility down or, worst case, allow radiation to escape.

The plant's $12.3 billion price tag, already triple original estimates, is well short of what it will cost to address the problems and finish the project. And the plant's start-up date, originally slated for last year and pushed back to its current target of 2019, is likely to slip further.

"We're continuing with a failed design," said Donald Alexander, a senior U.S. government scientist on the project.

"There's a lot of pressure � from Congress, from the state, from the community to make progress," he added. As a result, "the design processes are cut short, the safety analyses are cut short, and the oversight is cut short. � We have to stop now and figure out how to do this right, before we move any further."

Documents obtained by USA TODAY show at least three federal investigations are underway to examine the project, which is funded and supervised by the Department of Energy, owner of Hanford Site. Bechtel National is the prime contractor.

In November, the Energy Department's independent oversight office notified Bechtel that it is investigating "potential nuclear safety non-compliances" in the design and installation of plant systems and components. And the department's inspector general is in the final stages of a separate probe focused on whether Bechtel installed critical equipment that didn't meet quality-control standards.

Meanwhile, Congress' Government Accountability Office has launched a sweeping review of everything from cost and schedule overruns to the risks associated with the Energy Department's decision to proceed with construction before completing and verifying the design of key components.

The "design-build" approach "is good if you're building a McDonald's," said Gene Aloise, the GAO's director of nuclear non-proliferation and security. "It's not good if you're building a one-of-a-kind, high-risk nuclear waste facility."

The Defense Nuclear Facilities Safety Board, an independent federal panel that oversees public health and safety at nuclear weapons sites, is urging Energy Secretary Steven Chu to require more extensive testing of designs for some of the plant's most critical components.

"Design and construction of the project continue despite there being unresolved technical issues, and there is a lot of risk associated with that," said Peter Winokur, the board's chairman. The waste at Hanford, stored in 177 deteriorating underground tanks, "is a real risk to the public and the environment. It is essential that this plant work and work well."

Energy Department officials acknowledged that the design questions are a significant challenge and likely to inflate the project's cost and timetable.

"We've got tough technical issues to deal with," said David Huizenga, acting assistant Energy secretary for environmental management. "Each one of these issues that gets raised, we take it on and we work it until we've solved it. It might take a little longer than we'd hoped and cost a little more � (but) we will not operate a plant that cannot be operated safely."

Bechtel managers also insisted that all of the plant's designs will be verified before it begins operations. "When complete, the facility will meet all safety and regulatory requirements," communications manager Suzanne Heaston said.

Monumental Mess

Everything about the waste treatment plant at Hanford is unprecedented - and urgent.

The volume of waste, its complex mix of highly radioactive and toxic material, the size of the processing facilities - all present technical challenges with no proven solution. The plant is as big as the task: a sprawling, 65-acre compound of four giant buildings, each longer than a football field and as tall as 12 stories high.

The plant will separate the waste's high- and low-level radioactive materials, then blend them with compounds that are superheated to create a molten glass composite - a process called "vitrification." The mix is poured into giant steel cylinders, where it cools to a solid form that is safe and stable for long-term storage - tens of thousands of glass tubes in steel coffins.

Once the plant starts running, it could take 30 years or more to finish its cleanup work.

The 177 underground tanks at Hanford hold detritus from 45 years of plutonium production at the site, which had up to nine nuclear reactors before it closed in 1989. Some of the tanks, with capacities ranging from 55,000 gallons to more than 1 million gallons, date to the mid-1940s, when Hanford's earliest reactor made plutonium for the first atomic bomb ever detonated: the "Trinity" test at Alamagordo, N.M. It also produced the plutonium for the bomb dropped on Nagasaki, Japan, in World War II.

More than 60 of the tanks are thought to have leaked, losing a million gallons of waste into soil and groundwater. So far, the contamination remains within the boundaries of the barren, 586-square-mile site, but it poses an ongoing threat to the nearby Columbia River, a water source for communities stretching southwest to Portland, Ore. And, while the liquid most likely to escape from the older tanks has been moved to newer, double-walled tanks, the risk of more leaks compounds that threat.

"Each day without progress (in treating the waste) further threatens the Columbia River and its surroundings." Washington Gov. Chris Gregoire warned in November. "There are critical public health and environmental issues at play."

A 1989 legal agreement among the Energy Department, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and the state of Washington sets strict timetables for stabilizing the tank wastes, including a 2011 deadline to get the treatment plant running. Two years ago, a negotiated extension pushed the start-up date to 2019. But a November review by the Energy Department reported that the deadlines are at "significant risk," because of both engineering and budget concerns.

The deadlines "were put in place to ensure the health and safety of the people of Washington and that commitment must continue," Gregoire said, urging that the federal government commit whatever funding is necessary to address the project's technical hurdles and keep it on track. "Falling behind schedule � is not an option."

Technical Difficulties

Most of the technical issues still vexing the project involve moving waste through the plant.

The thicker, high-level waste doesn't flow according to usual laws of physics; it glugs like ketchup spurting from a bottle. The challenge is to keep it moving: If particles in the material accumulate, they can cause clogs, trapping potentially explosive hydrogen gas or, if too much plutonium masses together, triggering an uncontrolled nuclear reaction that generates extreme heat and radioactivity, threatening workers and the plant's operation.

The challenge lies in the plant's huge pre-treatment building, where the waste traverses an intricate set of pipes and vessels as its radioactive streams are separated and sent to separate facilities for conversion into glass. To keep the waste agitated, many of the pre-treatment vessels contain "pulse jet mixers" that act like giant turkey basters, sucking the waste into tubes and expelling it through jet nozzles.

"No one can stand up and say with any certainty that (the mixers) will work," said Walter Tamosaitis, who spent seven years as a supervising engineer on the project for URS Corp. before being reassigned in 2010. During his tenure, he filed memos and reports to top officials questioning the mixers' design.

Some of the high-level waste has turned out to be more complex than anticipated, with plutonium particles up to 10 times larger than expected. That has heightened concerns among several scientists, including Tamosaitis and the staff of the nuclear facilities safety board, that the systems designed to churn that waste need further testing to address the threat of hydrogen buildup or a nuclear reaction.

The mixers will be nearly impossible to repair or modify if they fail, because they will be too radioactive - they're in fortified rooms, known as "black cells," that will be sealed permanently when the plant begins operating. If the system malfunctions, Tamosaitis said, "the plant is dead in the water."

Alexander, the Energy Department scientist, also worries about the pre-treatment mixing system. Because the mixing jets and vessels were not designed to handle the larger plutonium particles and other abrasives in the high-level waste, he said, the material is likely to erode the vessels' lining. Alexander, who has detailed his concerns in official filings, has run simulations showing that the vessels could fail well before the end of the system's 40-year design life, potentially causing a leak inside the plant.

When the jet mixers expel waste into the vessels, they're "like a liquid sandblaster," and the mixing system needs years of extra testing and refinement to account for the problem, Alexander said. "If they don't make any changes and just move ahead, it lasts maybe 10 years."

Tamosaitis and Alexander aren't alone in their concerns.

The mixing system "is not necessarily a solid design," said Donna Busche, a URS employee who serves as manager for environmental and nuclear safety at the site. "The research isn't done, the design isn't done, and there are numerous technical and safety issues � to address."

Testing on the Fly?

The Energy Department has agreed to do more testing of the mixing system's design, but is moving ahead with construction of the vessels before tests are complete. That means the equipment might have to be re-engineered and modified, or replaced entirely, if it fails.

The alternative is to "take the pieces and parts that are sitting in the middle of a vendor's shop and leave them there, not have the vessel completed, while you wait for the results of a large-scale test," said Dale Knutson, the Energy Department's project director. Under the current plan, if the designs pass muster, "you haven't lost the ability to complete the work" on time.

"We would not operate the facility in an unsafe condition," Knutson added. "The question is: Do you have an appropriate hold point in place, a place where you can stop" if the design proves to be inadequate? "In this particular case � that hold point is defined as prior to installation."

The decision reflects the Energy Department's "design-build" approach: To speed completion, construction occurs while some features still are being designed.

That strategy has fueled a progress-at-all-costs climate that discourages scientists from raising design concerns, said Winokur, the safety board chairman. "The safety culture is flawed."

Project managers were too slow to address questions about the plant's mixing systems, Winokur said, noting that proper testing will take "several years" and should have started sooner. "Management is not adequately surfacing and resolving important technical and safety issues."

Last week, a report by the Energy Department's health and safety office echoed many of the safety board's assertions. Assessing the treatment plant project, the report identified "significant concerns" about "processes for nuclear design � and for managing safety issues."

Busche, the safety manager, said concerns about the potential for hydrogen buildup in components at the pre-treatment facility were pushed aside.

The question is "how likely would an explosion be and would the equipment survive (and) contain the waste?" she said. The safety office raised "significant issues" about the mixing system's design because assumptions on hydrogen buildup were "not conservative enough" to account for all the risks, she added.

In October, after many of the system's components already were being installed, Energy officials warned Bechtel in a letter that some of the piping had not been shown to meet safety requirements, records obtained by USA TODAY show. In a November response, Bechtel said it had ordered a "suspension of work" on the piping system pending more design review - a move the company described in a statement as a "conservative approach."

Busche shares many of the concerns raised by Tamosaitis, Alexander and the safety board. "We're all coming at these issues in different ways," she said. But when they're raised, "the first question that gets asked is not 'how are we going to solve it?' It's 'how much is it going to cost?' � I've never seen this sort of flagrant disregard for technical issues."

Project managers said that disagreements over risk and safety assumptions are to be expected on such a complex undertaking, but rejected the notion that concerns aren't taken seriously - or that money drives the response.

It's in everyone's interests to build a plant that works properly and safely, said Richard Kacich, an assistant project director for Bechtel. "The earlier you know about (a safety issue), the earlier you can deal with it. � The culture of our company is highly supportive of bringing issues forward."

"On a first-of-its-kind project, are there (design) challenges? Of course," he added. But "as with any nuclear undertaking, the way a project delivers is to focus on safety � and quality."

Explosion in Costs

Each challenge requires more work and more time - and more money.

In its November construction report, the Energy Department warned that it's on a path to spend $800 million to $900 million more than the plant's current, $12.3 billion budget. When the project was launched, on what was expected to be a much smaller scale, it was budgeted at about $4 billion.

"I can't give you an exact number or sense of what I think the project is ultimately going to cost," said Huizenga, the assistant Energy secretary, adding that managers are seeking ways to offset the projected cost overruns. He also declined to estimate when the plant might start or finish treating tank waste, though he reiterated that deadlines for both tasks are "at risk."

The overrun figures may be just a hint of what's to come: They don't include major modifications that officials now are contemplating to address some of the technical problems that have emerged.

Because of the complex nature of some of the tank waste, including the larger plutonium particles, Energy Department officials including Huizenga acknowledge that a portion of the material probably will require some sort of preliminary processing before it can be sent into the pre-treatment facility. Potential solutions include reconfiguring the pre-treatment facility or designing and building equipment to filter the waste as it's removed from the tanks.

Any changes would cost money unaccounted for in current budget projections.

"They will need to find alternative ways to treat some of that material," Winokur said. "There will need to be additional investments."

That's not the only problem that would require more spending, he said. He noted, for example, that the treatment plant's current design, which has been modified several times, has the capacity to treat only about 50% of the less complex, low-level radioactive liquid waste that it's supposed to handle.

And no plan has been finalized - or budgeted - for how to process the rest.

Tamosaitis and Alexander said they believe it will take billions of dollars in added funding to complete the project.

Congress already is showing frustration with the plant's escalating cost and engineering problems.

The 2012 appropriations bill that funds the Energy Department directed officials to do a major review of "contract management" for all nuclear facility cleanups with budgets over $1 billion. The study is due in May, according to the bill, and must assess whether practices "foster a positive nuclear safety culture or resolve nuclear safety-related design issues."

Lawmakers also balked at the department's 2012 funding request of $840 million for the project - a 22% increase from the $690 million a year that was projected. Instead, lawmakers agreed to $740 million.

The reduced amount probably is not enough to keep the construction on schedule given the engineering challenges that have emerged, Huizenga said. Still, he added, the project "is an extremely high priority for us," and the department will push ahead until it is complete.

Ultimately, "cost and schedule are less important than the quality and safety of the plant," said Tom Carpenter, executive director of Hanford Challenge, a public interest group that monitors the project and works with whistle-blowers to see that safety issues are addressed. "It's got to work."

e-max.it: your social media marketing partner
Email This Page

 

Comments  

We are concerned about a recent drift towards vitriol in the RSN Reader comments section. There is a fine line between moderation and censorship. No one likes a harsh or confrontational forum atmosphere. At the same time everyone wants to be able to express themselves freely. We'll start by encouraging good judgment. If that doesn't work we'll have to ramp up the moderation.

General guidelines: Avoid personal attacks on other forum members; Avoid remarks that are ethnically derogatory; Do not advocate violence, or any illegal activity.

Remember that making the world better begins with responsible action.

- The RSN Team

 
+40 # pjbrunner 2011-08-16 14:11
So in other words, 25 percent of the entire national debt is attributable to these two wars. Incredible!
 
 
+32 # radil 2011-08-16 16:28
Over 90% of the total debt accumulated since 1916 is due to all our wars.
 
 
+22 # Rita Walpole Ague 2011-08-16 19:27
And guess the name of the family who has profited beyond belief from both oil, oil oil, and war, war, war since WWI.

I'll give you a hint: rhymes with tush.
 
 
+5 # Carbonman1950 2011-08-17 00:07
Quoting pjbrunner:
So in other words, 25 percent of the entire national debt is attributable to these two wars. Incredible!


By some accountings, if you include interest on the portion of the national attributable to military spending, military pension and post-service medical expense, and all the other military expenditures larded into other non-military portions of the federal budget, military spending absorbs more than 50% of the annual federal budget. Visit http://www.truemajority.org/csba/priorities.php for one version of that view.
 
 
+5 # Capn Canard 2011-08-17 09:50
That 50% was the number I heard way back in college. I am not surprised that it hasn't changed. This is why the profit motive is a truly a horrible incentive for true "economic" growth. The profit motive doesn't account for things like human death, destruction of habitat, villages, culture, environment or any type of long term sustainability both economic or ecological or cultural. It is extremely short sighted and extremely egomaniacal.
 
 
+9 # NanFan 2011-08-17 03:17
I want my money back! I want my $12,000, because I do not condone these or any wars. I protested Vietnam, the Gulf War, Iraq, and Afghanistan. I voted for people in Congress who voted against these illegal "invasions."

I want my money back!!

N.
 
 
+1 # CommonSense 2011-08-22 07:02
Its not incredible.
Its par for the (early) Modern course, for those into history.
The PRIVATE CENTAL BANK CARTEL, since the days of Adam 'the invisible hand' Smith, has worked, and conspired (but pls. don't say "labored"- these people think for a living) to perpetuate their own dominance of ALL western nation's monetary/curren cy systems, largely (among other strategies) by means of the military-indust rial-complex, perpetual wars & sky-high 'public' debt, payable of course, mostly to themselves- the intellectual creators of the trick/system.

Today's 'public' debt in USA is not substantially different from 18th century Britian's... Same (old) game; slightly different (new) place.
 
 
+37 # fredboy 2011-08-16 14:15
A 10 year war, an 8 year invasion, and messy accounting.
And what happened to the USSR after it tried to conquer Afghanistan?
 
 
+25 # Virginia 2011-08-16 16:57
Anybody doubt this was on the backs and sacrifice of the America homeowners? President Eisenhower warned against the "military industrial complex" - ultimately it is the trifecta of military, industrial and financial that have done us in... I can hear the conversation now..."ramp it up, we need war money - what better way than to scam the homeowners out of every dime and then sell it to investors - since they won't support or donate to our wars..." $600 Trillion and they still can't win the wars.
 
 
+34 # maddave 2011-08-16 15:06
In this piece, it wasn't until the last couple od paragraphs that the specter of worn, used up and obsolete equipment was even mentioned. We went into Iraq & Afghanistan with a well equipped Army, Navy & Air Force, and now, here we come out with our war-fighting equipment beat all to hell. A major part of todays equipment is beyond economical repair/rehab and will be, most likely, abandoned where it sits today! Consequently, if we want to regain our pre-Iraq/Afghan istan military capabilities, the cost will be astronomical. Given no other foreign wars or police actions for the next decade-or-two, we still will not be out from under the HIDDEN costs of this senseless adventure.
 
 
+16 # GeeRob 2011-08-16 17:31
We did NOT go into Iraq with a well-equipped Army. U.S. soldiers were dumpster diving for armor. Remember when a soldier asked Rumsfeld about their lack of protection and Rummy replied "You go to war with the army you have..."?
 
 
+13 # cadan 2011-08-16 18:41
I think maddave's remark is very important.

Our military is much worse off today than 10 years ago. And not just in terms of hardware worn out during our pointless wars.

Officers' training has also been sacrificed.

It used to be that our Air Force officers would get a chance to study subjects like foreign affairs in places like Georgetown. This provides so many benefits, from greater integration of our officers into our society, to just having a more professional and well rounded corps. But this sort of thing is being drastically curtailed due to the expenses of our wars.

So we are descending into banana republichood in more than one way.

I think that no matter what you think our role in the world should be, these pointless crusades against Moslems and Arabs are the wrong way to go about it.

Nobody, no matter how conservative or how liberal, should support our crusades. It does not benefit our people, our military, our standing, and certainly not our victims.
 
 
+8 # Carole 2011-08-17 06:08
In Iraq, even with the overall costs of the war declining and the US military scheduled to withdraw its remaining 46,000 troops by the end of this year, the cost per service member spiked from $510,000 in 2007 to $802,000 this year.

These figures take military spending and divide it by the number of troops we have. Total stupidity.

It is CONTRACTING that eats the money. In the past 8 years, most of the billions of dollars have gone to military contractors, who do less than the troops, and make sometimes 50 times the money, and to contractors tasked with fulfilling the unrealistic demands of the "combatant commanders". The proof is in the pudding--nothin g worthwhile except protection against IEDs has been produced.
 
 
+26 # hms 2011-08-16 15:14
Congrads on this piece. Since the average American can't compute such figures because they are so massive, what you did in the introduction is give the figure of $12,000 per taxpayer. Now that is something the average American can understand. And I can't understand why such figures per citizen taxpayer are not used for all the items we are paying for--everywhere!

This $12,000 figure should be pasted on billboards nationwide and run on t.v. too. Let us all understand how much and what we are paying for!
 
 
+22 # angelfish 2011-08-16 15:22
The money that this Country has PI**ED away, MOSTLY under Bush's Watch, then bequeathed to Obama, could have, in ALL likely-hood, maintained Clinton's Surplus, funded a DECENT, single Payer Option Health-Care Program for Americans and kept us on an even Financial Keel! Sadly, the Republican Party has been over-run with HARD Right-Wing Ideologues and Fascists who serve ONLY their Wealthy Handlers. No longer Republicans, they are now the K.N.F.P (Koch/Norquist Fascist Party)! Hopefully, they will be given their walking papers on Election Day 2012!
 
 
+3 # Capn Canard 2011-08-17 09:56
angelfish, nice. Of course this is power and control run amok. Like the crazy Id on a jagg with a GOP Tea party pushing and a retarded group of Dems laying down there is no counter balancing force to the wanton dismantling of the middle class and GOOD SENSE.
 
 
+1 # GeeRob 2011-08-17 12:20
Capn, please leave the word 'retarded' out of your comments. It's insulting to the many people of the world with Downs Syndrome and their families and friends.
 
 
0 # Texas Aggie 2011-08-17 19:14
Well, the projections at the beginning of Shrub's term were that we would be completely out of debt by this time if we didn't do anything to change the economic trajectory. You may have noticed that Shrub started two wars and did a bunch of tax cuts that sort of wrecked havoc with the projections.
 
 
+36 # America 2011-08-16 15:22
Of course the cost is known.

The incredible committment of resources to a lost cause and our inability to escape from it.

The destruction of the US economy

Loss of world-wide credibilty

High unemployment

Collapse of the housing market

Massive loss of human lives

Just add it all up. The cost goes much further than just dollars and cents.
 
 
+8 # NanFan 2011-08-17 05:31
Quoting America:
Of course the cost is known.

The incredible committment of resources to a lost cause and our inability to escape from it.

The destruction of the US economy

Loss of world-wide credibilty

High unemployment

Collapse of the housing market

Massive loss of human lives

Just add it all up. The cost goes much further than just dollars and cents.


And Bush/Cheney and cronies have been given immunity from prosecution by the US government for these crimes!

I say, arrest the bums. Do a Brattleboro, VT, and pass a law that says if Bush or Cheney even step a TOE into their city, they will be arrested for their crimes against the US, humanity, and the planet!

We sit in their quagmire of hate and greed, while they bask in their fortunes.

I truly hope there IS a payback day for them, even if it comes via the International Court.

N.
 
 
+15 # AML 2011-08-16 15:38
Why don't they distinguish the 'military budget' from the 'defense budget'?

When the procurement of a hammer is $200., I'm thinking I'd love to sell hammers to the military...
 
 
+11 # mrbadexample 2011-08-16 16:02
The costs are extremely hard to break down but $12K per family probably isn't close. The Gulf War was fought 'on the cheap' except that now a third of the troops that were in-theatre are on disability from exposure to DU or the poison gas residues. Once all the PTSD and TBI/SCI injuries are totaled from these two wars, there's well over a hundred thousand vets who'll be on some form of disability for life--and the costs will be dispersed for the Section 8 and WIC and child support their families are entitled to.
 
 
+14 # in deo veritas 2011-08-16 16:11
We should start by DEMANDING that everyu one of the a-holes in Congress who voted for these fiascos cough up $12000 out of their pocket change to help pay for them. It wouldn't hurt them a bit! What would really hurt is voting them out of office since we won't put them in prison where they should be.
 
 
+17 # janutb 2011-08-16 16:24
Add to that, Bush never paid for the wars, he borrowed from China. We are now paying 'interest' on top of the actual war debt. What is the total after interest?
 
 
+19 # Isar 2011-08-16 16:28
For shame--for shame--for shame. How can Obama justify staying in Afghanistan and Iraq, spending all that money that we need back home? Yes, Bush-baby started it because War is Big Business...Chen ey's company made millions...Reme mber-"Guns and Butter"...Howev er, in today's world, there is no excuse for this kind of thinking....the thinking that old men send young men to die in foreign lands for causes that make no sense. The Taliban in Afghanistan don't want us in their part of the world. IF we would leave, they would forget about terrorizing us. Pakistan doesn't want us either, and as we learned, they were willing to hide Osama Bin Laden!@!!...and look at the money we have given them. We are being played for fools....but IF WE BRING THE TROOPS HOME...we jsut gotta find another war....because the Pentagon has to keep the money flowing into it's budget....LOTS OF BIG money goes into the Pentagon....Lot s of Big People live very well on that money. Think of the Pentagon as the Largest Corporation in America....and they don't pay ANY taxes!!! Shame on us. We are in the 21st century fighting the same kind of wars we fought in the 20th century. Young American men and women are still dying--NOT to PROTECT THIS COUNTRY....but to feed the monster--the Pentagon Monster. For shame--for shame--for shame. We refuse to learn from history and continue to repeat our mistakes.
 
 
+14 # MEBrowning 2011-08-16 16:28
There's our economic nightmare in a nutshell. Just think what a booming economy we might have had if the feds had simply given every American $12,000.
 
 
+13 # Regina 2011-08-16 16:36
And let's not forget the pork of obsolete equipment the Pentagon no longer needs or wants, but it feeds a Congress member's obligations for election campaign support. Nobody is calculating the cumulative cost of every quid pro quo.
 
 
+12 # ABen 2011-08-16 17:30
As a nation, we really need to have the "guns vs butter" debate again. Also, we need to drive a stake through the heart of the Bush/Cheney doctrine of preemptive war!
 
 
+10 # jwb110 2011-08-16 17:45
I seem to remember troops complaining, one specifically to Rumsfeld at a press conference, that the force was under fully armed when the war started. No armored vehicles, no flack-jackets, not enough helmets, etc.
 
 
+5 # giraffee2012 2011-08-16 17:55
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-14553039

Ecuador police to take lie detector test.

Each person in W.H. and Congress should take lie detector tests -- so we can figure out HOW much $$ they know went to what/who
In fact, we know when they say "my constutients" want blah blah -- is not true -- those who funded their elections demand "what they say the people want" -- THE PEOPLE want jobs, their homes, and equal tax for all.

NO elected person who tries to legislate law on a religious basis is OUT -- we have a constitution and it is not the bible of any religion.

I want an accounting of ALL those (70K) checks the government sends each month.

If a company makes their goods in a foreign country (jobs overseas is becoming epidemic) -- they MUST pay a tarif tax to sell product in USA. This might equalize their choice to keep their $$ off shore to dodge taxes.

This article is not a surprise -- but brings up what the 12 specials must consider: Bring everyone into a medicare system - along with some of the CORRECT parts of the Heaalth Care Reform.,

Vote 2012 -- get the RepugNUTS out -- Register now and get mail-in ballots (deliver them to the polling both on election day and make sure they are put into the slot with machine votes)
 
 
+7 # JohnLoth 2011-08-16 18:29
I'll bet Osama bin Laden is up in Muslim Heaven with his 72 virgins just laughing his ass off.

How would he say MISSON ACCOMPLISHED in Arabic?
 
 
+5 # margpark 2011-08-16 18:49
Of course those wars are costing trillions. These endless wars have put us in the awful (except for the rich) financial situation we are in. And we still are not taking good care of our wounded veterans.
I am starting to loose hope for any sense in our government.
 
 
+15 # jtom 2011-08-16 19:07
Osama bin Laden told us years ago he didn't need to fighty us he would just bankrupt us. He won didn't he.
 
 
+9 # giraffee2012 2011-08-16 19:16
Quoting jtom:
Osama bin Laden told us years ago he didn't need to fighty us he would just bankrupt us. He won didn't he.


Norquist must be in bed with Al Quaeda + GOP/TP in bed with Norquist --

The GOP now says Obama's fault for no jobs when GOP has not allowed one JOB CREATION bill to be in front of Congress. And the GOP/TP says Obama has a spending problem - when the CONGRESS HOLDS THE PURSE!

Something is wrong with media that they allow these people to talk - none give facts/figures.

I'll go for a run and hope I sweat out all my anger!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!
 
 
+4 # Sallyport 2011-08-16 20:16
The Pentagon cannily protects its provisioning by ensuring that its many contracts get spread around the country into as many regions (& congressional districts) as possible, so that any time a program is scheduled to be struck off, congress comes to the rescue. This way the Pentagon gets credit for being willing to cut back but at the same time gets to keep everything in perpetuity. What we need is a re-commissioned Pentagon devoted to peace making, infrastructure building & maintenance, and support of education. A lot of this work would go to contractors as before. Homeland security (renamed, of course, to something sounding indigenous to the US) could be redirected to public and workplace safety, & protection of the food supply, among other things. A small standing army technologically well-equipped would round out this enterprise.
 
 
+6 # Roy 2011-08-16 20:30
Soon the military retirees may likely be under a 401k system managed by the Wall Street boys. Watch out folks because the federal cuts will be coming and pointed directly at the American people's SS, medicare, and military retiree benefits. Congress will of course have their own retirement and medical system apart from the 401k or medicare. The political foxes will be guarding their nests during these coming federal cuts.
 
 
+4 # pierre 2011-08-16 22:04
And the Oligarchs and their minions are laughing all the way to the bank while AmeriKa remains dumbed down and fearsome/cluele ss. What a concept!
 
 
+3 # Activista 2011-08-16 22:16
There is NO WAY that we can recover with present MILITARISTIC policies.
Likely it is too late even IF we stop ALL the WARS next 24 hours.
And populist Obama believes ... what a joke.
Is there ONE rational being in Washington DC?
 
 
+5 # shesap 2011-08-16 22:18
Never thought I'd say it but I long for the good old days when wars were fought for the freedom and protection of our country not to put money into the pockets of America's rich. Bring our troops home and let's put that money into infrastructure!
 
 
+2 # Glen 2011-08-17 16:40
When was that, shesap? Profit has always been a motive in U.S. attacks on countries. Check out WWII, and probably WWI, and who profited from those attacks. The rah rah, support of war is a disgrace, and rarely for the protection of the country.

What is lacking is a true education for our students so that they would know the truth.
 
 
+4 # Carbonman1950 2011-08-17 00:12
On the day we invaded Afghanistan my 80 year old mother said "D.H. Lawrence warned us about getting involved in that area. Now we will be there for a hundred years."
 
 
0 # Activista 2011-08-17 20:04
Quoting Carbonman1950:
On the day we invaded Afghanistan my 80 year old mother said "D.H. Lawrence warned us about getting involved in that area. Now we will be there for a hundred years."

Within 5 years we will be NOT there - bankrupted USA will be worse than CCCP in 1989.
 
 
+2 # sabiha1 2011-08-17 00:35
Look at the emblem of the US. One olive branch held in one claw and a quiver of 13 arrows in the other!! War will always be a way of life with the establishment of this country until the whole great country unravels. And moral downgradation added to the ultimate cost of war. Remember the photographs of young soldiers killing civilian kids and cutting off their pinkies as souvenirs!
 
 
+6 # SOF 2011-08-17 00:35
Military/Indust rial complex? Chaney was Halliburton.....
Chaney and Bush both oilmen... I remember that Bush announced the war could wind down about a week after the 'benchnmark' to divide Iraq's oil. We thought that meant Sunni, Shi'a, and Kurd. But it was BP, Shell? a Dutch oil co. and ?? Still looking for that info. And where are the media stories about it?
OSB won like he said he would.
And if they won't tax for war, they won't tax for keeping newly poor American's alive. We are either screwed or on the verge of revolution. Fat chance since we no longer have rights or even free speach, much less an informed populace. And there are all those private jails now.... We're screwed.
 
 
0 # Glen 2011-08-17 16:46
Nicely said, SOF, except for the comment on Osama bin Laden. He had nothing to do with the downfall of the U.S. The U.S. government did that to the country.

The government should be warned to not tax for war or we will have a revolution for sure. Privatization is a real consideration and than you for keeping us on that subject.
 
 
+5 # Habib Khan 2011-08-17 01:51
 
 
+3 # rf 2011-08-17 06:07
How many hundreds of thousands could we have given every man, woman, and child in afganistan and iraq with all of this money? Problem would have been solved with a marshal plan solution rather than the pharmaceutical solution!
 
 
+3 # boudreaux 2011-08-17 08:26
No accountablity aagin, no one seems to know shit about this money, it is no wonder that we are in the debt that we are in. If they would just stop all of this war shit like people want them to, we could pay off the deficit in no time...It could have been paid off years ago.....all down the drain and still going......
 
 
+1 # Nick Gallup 2011-08-17 12:04
No one has even mentioned how much the 15,000 killed has cost us. Each family of a KIA is given $100,000. That's $1.5 billion. And don't forget to factor in the costs of recovering the bodies, packing them in body bags filled with ice, and then flying them to Delaware. Estimated cost - about $10,000 per KIA, or $150 million. At Delaware the bodies are embalmed, cleaned up, cosmetics applied (a thoughtful gesture,just in case the widows or parents want to take a last look,) fitted into a military dress uniform, placed into a government furnished coffin, and then flown to the survivors , where they are buried at government expense in a national cemetary. Estimated cost - about $50,000 per KIA, or another $750 million. Oh, the flag, you know the one presented to the widow or parents, that only amounts to a million dollars or so. Forget that, but lets not forget that we, in many cases, have to pay survivors' pensions. There's another big cost. Figure half of the KIAs' survivors are entitled to a pension averaging $20,000 per annum, with a survivor life expectancy of 50 years. Cost to taxpayers for that alone - about $7.5 billion dollars. Grand total - just over $10 billion. Damn, we could buy three aircraft carrier for that! Now, consider the cost of our wounded. Aw, forget that. You get the picture.
 
 
+1 # holdcraftm 2011-08-17 23:28
One correction to your article. You mention the DoD Budgeting System can't account for all the costs of these wars. That is incorrect. The Budgeting system was never designed to account for DoD expenses. The system you should be citing is the DoD accounting system. That is the system that account for all costs within DoD, not the Budgeting System. They are separate systems and that is one reason why no one can ever figure out where all the money actually goes. I know, I spent 4 years in the Pentagon in the Budgeting System for the USAF trying to figure out why the two systems never were coordinated to properly report expenses, so we could use that baseline to accomplish our annual budgets. The Budgeting system is centered in the Pentagon, the finance system is centered in Denver, Colorado and several other locations by each Armed Service.
 
 
+1 # reiverpacific 2011-08-19 08:33
"holdcraftm" Thanks very much for that valuable information. It's good to get this sort of data from an informed source, and thanks to RSN for making it possible to get such revealing words out to we of the "lower 95".
No way would this be reported on mainstream.
 
 
+1 # reiverpacific 2011-08-18 08:53
And this is only the stuff that can be accounted for!
What about the "Missing Billions" in Iraq and Afghanistan? And the "No-Bid" contracts? And the biggest Embassy n the world in Baghdad which can be seen from space (if they were supposed to be even considering leaving)? And the "Black Budget" (CIA, surveillance, assassinations and now renditions worldwide) which is not even accountable to Congress nor the president but which is apparently almost 0.5 of the total "official" defense (Ha, ha!) budget. And THAT'S just recent.
Oh yes -and throw in the recent recruitment and use of "Private security firms", many made up of the scum of the earth from death squads and banana republic police.
As General Smedly Butler put it in his book of the same name "War is just a Racket" and the old "Fighting Quaker" should know this better than anybody.
 
 
+4 # old man 2011-08-18 15:36
These wars would be over if we would have re-instated the draft.
You don't fined wealthy people signing up to go to the middle east to fight, only people that need to feed their families.
End these wars now, put these people to work on our decaying infrastructure.
 
 
+1 # Don Thomann 2011-08-22 12:08
Take note, the "terrorists" knew all along that a nation's mania for "security" would destroy that nation!
Take note, the military-indust rial complex knew all along that a nation's mania for "security" would fill their coffers!
And, they were both right!
Why don't Americans see it? Duh!
 

THE NEW STREAMLINED RSN LOGIN PROCESS: Register once, then login and you are ready to comment. All you need is a Username and a Password of your choosing and you are free to comment whenever you like! Welcome to the Reader Supported News community.

RSNRSN