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Parry writes: "For many Americans the progression toward war with Iran has the feel of cattle being herded from the stockyard into the slaughterhouse, pressed steadily forward with no turning back, until some guy shoots a bolt into your head."

The USS John C Stennis is one of three US carriers reportedly in Persian Gulf region, 12/29/11. (photo: US Navy)
The USS John C Stennis is one of three US carriers reportedly in Persian Gulf region, 12/29/11. (photo: US Navy)

Herding Americans to War With Iran

By Robert Parry, Consortium News

13 January 12


or many Americans the progression toward war with Iran has the feel of cattle being herded from the stockyard into the slaughterhouse, pressed steadily forward with no turning back, until some guy shoots a bolt into your head.

Any suggestion of give-and-take negotiations with Iran is mocked, while alarmist propaganda, a ratcheting up of sanctions, and provocative actions – like Wednesday’s assassination of yet another Iranian scientist – push Americans closer to what seems like an inevitable bloodletting.

Even the New York Times now acknowledges that Israel, with some help from the United States, appears to be conducting a covert war of sabotage and assassination inside Iran. "The campaign, which experts believe is being carried out mainly by Israel, apparently claimed its latest victim on Wednesday when a bomb killed a 32-year-old nuclear scientist in Tehran’s morning rush hour," Times reporter Scott Shane wrote in Thursday’s editions.

Though U.S. officials emphatically denied any role in the murder, Israeli officials did little to discourage rumors of an Israeli hand in the bombing. Some even expressed approval. Brig. Gen. Yoav Mordechai said he didn’t know who killed the scientist but added: "I am definitely not shedding a tear."

The latest victim, Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan, was the fifth scientist associated with Iran’s nuclear program to be killed in the past four years, with a sixth scientist narrowly escaping death in 2010, Fereydoon Abbasi, who is now head of Iran’s Atomic Energy Organization.

As might be expected, Iran has denounced the murders as acts of terrorism. They have been accompanied by cyber-attacks on Iranian centrifuges and an explosion at a missile facility late last year killing a senior general and 16 others.

While this campaign has slowed Iran’s nuclear progress, it also appears to have hardened its resolve to continue work on a nuclear capability, which Iran says is for peaceful purposes only. Iranian authorities also have responded to tightening economic sanctions from Europe and the United States with threats of their own, such as warnings about closing the oil routes through the Strait of Hormuz and thus damaging the West’s economies.

Target: USA

Another front in Israel’s cold war against Iran appears to be the propaganda war being fought inside the United States, where the still-influential neoconservatives are deploying their extensive political and media resources to shut off possible routes toward a peaceful settlement, while building support for future military strikes against Iran.

Fitting with that propaganda strategy, the Washington Post’s editorial page, which is essentially the neocons’ media flagship, published a lead editorial on Wednesday urging harsher and harsher sanctions against Iran and ridiculing anyone who favored reduced tensions.

Noting Iran’s announcement that it had opened a better-protected uranium enrichment plant near Qom, the Post wrote: "In short, the new Fordow operation crosses another important line in Iran’s advance toward a nuclear weapons capability.

"Was it a red line for Israel or the United States? Apparently not, for the Obama administration at least. In a television interview Sunday, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said: ‘Our red line to Iran is: do not develop a nuclear weapon.’ He asserted that Tehran was not trying to develop a weapon now, only ‘a nuclear capability.’ The Revolutionary Guard, which controls the nuclear program, might well take that as a green light for the new enrichment operation."

While portraying Panetta as an Iranian tool, the Post suggested that anyone who wanted to turn back from an Iran confrontation was an Iranian useful fool. The Post wrote:

"The recent flurry of Iranian threats has had the intended effect of prompting a new chorus of demands in Washington that the United States and its allies stop tightening sanctions and instead make another attempt at ‘engagement’ with the regime. The Ahmadinejad government itself reportedly has proposed new negotiations, and Turkey has stepped forward as a host.

"Almost certainly, any talks will reveal that Iran is unwilling to stop its nuclear activities or even to make significant concessions. But they may serve to stop or greatly delay a European oil embargo or the implementation of sanctions on the [Iranian] central bank - and buy time for the Fordow centrifuges to do their work."

The Post’s recommended instead "that every effort must be made to intensify sanctions" and to stop Iranian sale of oil anywhere in the world. In other words, continue to ratchet up the tensions and cut off hopes for genuine negotiations.

A Vulnerable Obama

The escalating neocon demands for an ever-harder U.S. line against Iran - and Israel’s apparent campaign of killings and sabotage inside Iran - come at a time when President Barack Obama and some of his inner circle appear to be looking again for ways to defuse tensions. But the Post’s editorial – and similar neocon propaganda – have made clear that any move toward reconciliation will come with a high political price tag.

Already, a recurring Republican talking point is that Obama’s earlier efforts to open channels of negotiation with Iran and other foreign adversaries proved his naivete and amounted to "apologizing" for America. Obama also has faced resistance within his own administration, especially from neocon-lites such as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

For instance, in spring 2010, a promising effort – led by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Brazil’s then-President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva – got Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to agree to relinquish Iranian control of nearly half the country’s supply of low-enriched uranium in exchange for isotopes for medical research.

The Turkish-Brazilian initiative revived a plan first advanced by Obama in 2009 – and the effort had the President’s private encouragement. But after Ahmadinejad accepted the deal, Secretary Clinton and other U.S. hardliners switched into overdrive to kill the swap and insist instead on imposing harsher sanctions against Iran.

At the time, Clinton’s position was endorsed by editors at the Washington Post and the New York Times, who mocked Erdogan and Lula da Silva as inept understudies on the international stage. If anything, the Post and Times argued, the United States should take an even more belligerent approach toward Iran, i.e. seeking “regime change.” [See’s "WPost, NYT Show Tough-Guy Swagger."]

As Clinton undercut the uranium swap and pushed instead for a new round of United Nations’ sanctions, Lula da Silva released a private letter from Obama who had urged the Brazilians to press forward with the swap arrangement. However, with Washington’s political momentum favoring another confrontation with a Muslim adversary, Obama retreated and lined up behind the sanctions.

Over the next nearly two years, the sanctions have failed to stop Iran’s work on enriched uranium which it claims is needed for medical research. Israel, the neocons and other American hardliners have responded by demanding still more draconian sanctions, while promoting anti-Iran propaganda inside the United States and winking at the murder of Iranian scientists inside Iran.

In this U.S. election year, Israel and the neocons may understand that their political leverage on Obama is at its apex. So, if he again searches for openings to negotiate with Iran, he can expect the same kind of nasty disdain that the Washington Post heaped on Panetta on Wednesday.

The Carter-Begin Precedent

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and other Likud leaders appear to fear a second Obama term – when he’d be freed from the need to seek reelection – much as their predecessors feared a second term for President Jimmy Carter in 1980. Then, Prime Minister Menachem Begin thought that Carter in a second term would team up with Egyptian President Anwar Sadat in forcing Israel to accept a Palestinian state.

Begin’s alarm about that prospect was described by Israeli intelligence and foreign affairs official David Kimche in his 1991 book, The Last Option. Kimche wrote that Begin’s government believed that Carter was overly sympathetic to the Palestinians.

"Begin was being set up for diplomatic slaughter by the master butchers in Washington," Kimche wrote. "They had, moreover, the apparent blessing of the two presidents, Carter and Sadat, for this bizarre and clumsy attempt at collusion designed to force Israel to abandon her refusal to withdraw from territories occupied in 1967, including Jerusalem, and to agree to the establishment of a Palestinian state."

Extensive evidence now exists that Begin’s preference for Ronald Reagan led Israelis to join in a covert operation with Republicans to contact Iranian leaders behind Carter’s back and delay release of the 52 American hostages then being held in Iran until after Reagan defeated Carter in November 1980. [For details, see Robert Parry’s Secrecy & Privilege or’s "The Back Story on Iran’s Clashes."]

Today, Obama’s relationship with Netanyahu seems as strained as Carter’s relationship with Begin was three decades ago. And already many American neocons have signed up with Obama’s Republican rivals, including with GOP frontrunner Mitt Romney whose foreign policy white paper was written by prominent neocons.

So the question now is: Will the President of the United States take his place amid the herd of cattle getting steered into the slaughterhouse of another war? your social media marketing partner


A note of caution regarding our comment sections:

For months a stream of media reports have warned of coordinated propaganda efforts targeting political websites based in the U.S., particularly in the run-up to the 2016 presidential election.

We too were alarmed at the patterns we were, and still are, seeing. It is clear that the provocateurs are far more savvy, disciplined, and purposeful than anything we have ever experienced before.

It is also clear that we still have elements of the same activity in our article discussion forums at this time.

We have hosted and encouraged reader expression since the turn of the century. The comments of our readers are the most vibrant, best-used interactive feature at Reader Supported News. Accordingly, we are strongly resistant to interrupting those services.

It is, however, important to note that in all likelihood hardened operatives are attempting to shape the dialog our community seeks to engage in.

Adapt and overcome.

Marc Ash
Founder, Reader Supported News

+115 # RMDC 2012-01-13 17:34
I noted this in response to another column but perhaps it is even more relevant here. The neo-cons are applying tremendous pressure to Obama and the american people. They would not be doing this if Obama had opened criminal investigations and prosecutions of them in 2008. Most of the neo-con leaders who worked in the Bush administration lied to congress or were complicit in fabricating the lies. They also were part of a conspiracy to torture POWs. All Obama would have had to do is put a few of them in jail and the rest would think twice about lying the way they are now.

If you don't punish criminals they will keep on committing crimes. They will think you don't mind being lied to. Obama said that he would focus on looking forward and not looking backward. Well now the past has caught up to him and the neo-cons are boxing him into a war against Iran. The past never leaves us. It may be too late for Obama to neutralize the neo-cons. Obama must know that a war against Iran would be a disaster for the US. Now that Israel has gotten itself so committed to a war it cannot back out. It wants the US to bear all of the burden. Obama will have to tell Israel "NO" and that won't be easy. No president has ever done it.

This is a real test of American independence. Does the US get to make its own decisions or does it follow orders from Israel?
+28 # Activista 2012-01-13 22:08
" Obama will have to tell Israel "NO" and that won't be easy "
Obama is in the corner - and is 100% responsible for his situation.
IF he says NO - without AIPAC money (and AIPAC media) he will NOT get reelected.
There is a conspiracy going on to put AIPAC Hillary on the ticket -
It will be dirty - look what they did to Carter.
BTW - off topic - but check "liberated" Libya situation -
"Libya S.O.S. resistance news: 14. January 2012.
01h/ LIBYA and the NTC: 12,000 U.S. troops to Libya[by Cynthia McKinney] - Now, from Libya, reports are that even while the Misrata rebels (NATO allies responsible for the murder of hundreds of Libyans, including Moatessem Qaddafi) attempted to scale the petroleum platforms in Brega (an important oil town in Libya), they were annihilated by the Apache helicopters of their own NATO allies. A resistance Libyan doctor-become-j ournalist reported yesterday that all of the petroleum platforms are occupied by NATO and that warships occupy Libya's ports. Photographs show Italian encampments in the desert with an announcement that the French are to follow"
NEOCONS are Obama/Clinton/S arkozy .. crimes
0 # Fight the Reich 2012-01-15 09:04
To understand AIPAC and it's deep tentacles in American / Israeli foreign policy, not the least being the very nature of this webpage's article; Google "AIPAC+sourcewa tch" and click on and read the sourcewatch AIPAC article. Near the bottom of the article on AIPAC read the links for 'Related Sourcewatch Articles', particularly the 'Iran-Conta II' link.

If people and Patriots are going to be able to depose and rid our dear country of the neo-CON MIC / Amairka Inc / Fourth Reich vermin, then we MUST become evermore informed and in turn inform as many like-minded people and Patriots as we can. AIPAC's $-political-$ clout is a prime example of funding Obama's campaign will need Patriots to match and overcome IF we expect Obama to be able to overcome MIC / Israeli lobbyists from buying the American / Israeli foreign policy Israel / AIPAC desires such as dragging the U.S. into war with Iran. Matching AIPAC's $-blackmail-$ of American / Israeli foreign policy amounts to about $10 each for 2.5% of the adult U.S. population, ...not unsurmountable IF people / Patriots desire to provide Obama the fuel he needs to make headway against the MIC / Amairka Inc / Fourth Reich; And if not then we get what we didn't do.
+1 # Fight the Reich 2012-01-15 09:09
Obama could get elected without AIPAC; But it would take American Patriots with brains and souls above room temperature and motivated enough to match AIPAC's insurgency into $-prostituted-$ U.S. political decisions. We must also understand that the MIC and Israeli politics are a $-bedfellow-$ $-partnership-$ in a $-river-$ of weapons flowing to the oil $-rich-$ Middle East. The American public is all too willing to ignorantly send their sons and daughters to fight and die in the Reich's wars; But I'm afraid that's a very good sign that a critical mass of the American Public are entirely too lazily brainwashed to come anywhere close to knowing, much less being, the motivated Patriot character they only wish they were merely by chest thumping decree; Thus AIPAC will likely remain a major $-force-$ in bringing the U$A to Armageddon.
+15 # MidwestTom 2012-01-14 09:33
Instead of calling the warmongers Neoconservative s, please start referring to them as Israeli-America n citizens. A man can only serve one master, and they serve Israel. The United States of America has NO complaint with Iran, they are not threatening us in any way. Culturally we are closer to themthan we are to the Saudis.
+5 # John Locke 2012-01-14 10:25
MidwestTom: Maybe, just maybe Isreal is a tool of the US, did you ever consider that?

We want their Oil, and we will take what we want that is what an empire3 does!
+5 # Activista 2012-01-14 11:35
"Neoconservativ e s, please start referring to them as Israeli-America n citizens"
there are many factions - MANY Israeli-America ns (by default) know how bad Netanyahu government is - if I want information on Israel I go to Haaretz NOT New York Times.
"'Israeli Mossad agents posed as CIA spies to recruit terrorists to fight against Iran'
Foreign Policy magazine cites CIA memos from 2007-2008 that the Mossad recruited members of Jundallah terror group to fight against Tehran; U.S. was reportedly furious with Israel and moved to limit joint intelligence programs."
+16 # tomo 2012-01-14 14:16
"The United States of America has NO complaint with Iran, they are not threatening us in any way." As a teacher, I have met and talked at length with many Iranians. They make a very positive impression on me. The leadership of Iran is something else. But I agree with you, Midwest. The responsibility to clean up the politics of Iran is an Iranian responsibility.

From 9/11, if not earlier, we Americans have an obsession with national security. We seem to be committed to a Planet Earth in which Americans are absolutely secure. It is a will-o-the-wisp . Pursuit of it will undermine what real security is possible. Just as we cannot threaten Pakistan into some form of total submission to the American Will, so, increasingly, we must find some way of accommodating many nations a place in the sun--and without assuming that we are the planet's angry landlord.

I have a very secret heresy which I would like to share with my fellow Americans: America is not God.
+17 # John Locke 2012-01-14 09:35
RMDC: It is sounding very similar to "your either with us or with the enemy" Hillery Clinton would have already been at war with Iran, and Obama is going to go along with it. I believe he has been ordered to do so, if not he would have fired Hillery when she went against his attempt to negotiate with Iran... There was a bill to reinstitute the draft a few years back, this will be the excuse to pass it...I hope people are smart enough to get their children out of harms way, but all evidence suggests they are not...
+15 # artful 2012-01-14 10:37
True, sadly true. The neo-cons should all be in prison, along with our war criminal ex-Prez and his war cabinet.
+1 # Fight the Reich 2012-01-15 09:00
The 'alarmist propaganda' link in para. 2 of the article is a should-read. Whether deliberate or not, the Obama Administration is being evermore reeled-in closer to the MIC / Fourth Reich's neo-CON agendas. With deep cuts in military spending a handwriting on the wall, the MIC needs more war to feed their $$$$$ IV tubes; And in an election year you can bet the MIC will make points of job and tax losses it will cause.

It's obvious that Obama is not going to prosecute guilty parties in the geeeeduhb administration for their crimes; And will deter anyone else from doing so; And yesterday 1-13-12, SOS H. Clinton said the U.S. would prosecute to the fullest any other U.S. Soldiers "peeing" on / desecrating enemy corpses. HUH??? Prosecute Soldiers for "peeing" on enemy corpses, yet never a word about prosecuting the filthy, lying bush administration criminals for hosing "roasted hamburger BBQs" upon about 1 million innocent men, women and children??? Might it be because the Obama Administration is edging evermore closer to similar guilt? Hillary really showed her true colors: Why-of-course, don't we dare tarnish the image of the U.S. war machine's pawns (that our govt, pentagon and VA all too often treat like disposable diapers). Sure looks to me like the MIC / Amairka Inc / Fourth Reich is playing the Obama white house like a piano, and the tune sure ain't 'chop sticks'.
+48 # Activista 2012-01-13 19:48
Israel (Begin) help select Reagan over Carter:
" evidence now exists that Begin’s preference for Ronald Reagan led Israelis to join in a covert operation with Republicans to contact Iranian leaders behind Carter’s back and delay release of the 52 American hostages then being held in Iran until after Reagan defeated Carter in November 1980. [For details, see Robert Parry’s Secrecy & Privilege or Consortiumnews. com’s "The Back Story on Iran’s Clashes."]"
+36 # rsnfan 2012-01-13 23:10
I think this will be a suicide war for the US and I am as mad as hell that I have to be part of that.
+14 # John Locke 2012-01-14 09:39
RSN Fan we don't have to be part of this, but we will need to keep quiet on the net because of the new Homeland defense bill, we will be arrested as traitors and domestic terrorists, once the war begins, so now in the time to speak up, but unfortunately Wall Street wants this war, that is a big bone to them...and yes there is no way to stop it if that is what they want and they will use all their media puppets to help
-3 # HJ7 2012-01-15 13:51
You have a problem with traitors and domestic terrorists being locked up? Appears to be a sound and rational move move to cut of that fifth column before it can strike.
0 # Anarchist 23 2012-01-15 16:01
Quoting HJ7:
You have a problem with traitors and domestic terrorists being locked up? Appears to be a sound and rational move move to cut of that fifth column before it can strike.

But exactly who will be those 'traitors and domestic terrorists'? first of all, to go off after Muslims and 'Al Qaeda' is to be taken in by the 911 'Official History' myth-unless you believe that jet-grade kerosene really can melt steel-all 100,000 tons f it in each tower, falling at free-fall speed-i.e. No resistance between falling floors. It is more likely to be you and I locked up because we disagree with further wars or job loss or loss of services including Social Security or something like that. The camps are there: empty, waiting and ObombO just signed the NDAA Bill-Homeland Battlefield bill. Somewhere we are probably already on a list.

BTW_I thought there was a presumption of innocence and probable cause in the Constitution-no w we have gone to lock-up first/trial after in your best world? As far as I know 'PreCrime' is a bad idea but I do think we have reached the point of 'Sentence first, trial afterward' as the Duchess said to Alice.
+1 # Ken Hall 2012-01-16 19:45
Anarch: HJ7 is a provocateur, don't let yourself be baited.
+13 # grouchy 2012-01-13 23:45
Well, I'm betting on Obama caving in to whatever is being schemed here. However, would someone in the know please blast out to the world the answer to the question "WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON WITH THIS DESIRE FOR A WAR WITH IRAN?"

Now, I'd guess it likely (yes!) has something to do with oil but does anyone have another idea? :-)
+5 # John Locke 2012-01-14 09:47
Grouchy: The main reason is the control of oil, Try and find the PNAC Report from about 1999 (Project for a New American Century)there were (5) countries that have been in the planning stage for invasion Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia and I forget the fifth country...some of the members you know well...Elliott Abrams,Richard Armitage,John R. Bolton,Richard Cheney,Zalmay Khalilzad,I. Lewis Libby,Donald Rumsfeld,Paul Wolfowitz, just to name a few, each believes we have to control the Mid East Oil, and they require a series of wars to do so.
+6 # John Locke 2012-01-14 09:50
Grouchy: and YES, Obama will do as he is ordered...after the election there will be some alleged event (true or made up) to invoke a war passion, perhaps another "alleged" trade center type attack? you will know it when it happens.
+14 # ganymede 2012-01-13 23:56
I just can't believe the Isreali leadership could be so crazy and out of touch with reality that they would attack Iran in any way asides from the low level espionage warfare that's going on right now. An attack would destroy Israel and much of the Middle East. Yet, we live in crazy times and the neocon Jews both here and in Israel can be as greedy, power hungry and self-detsructiv e as the rest of the evil people causing pain and strife in the world. I'm a Jew and am really disappointed in the small number of my warmongering brethren. Still, the vast majority will vote for Obama because most Jews still have their heads screwed on right, and Obama did get the Nobel Prize because he, at least, does have peaceful instincts as seen in our finally getting out of Iraq and soon Afghanistan, especially after the urination debacle. Americans have become so brutalized by hard times and bad propaganda that they don't even get what is wrong with this foul symbol of our inhumanity to ourselves and others.
+15 # RMDC 2012-01-14 08:46
ganymede -- i share your disbelief. But I felt this way about Cheney and Bush and their needless wars. These people are psychopaths. they look and sound quite normal, but they are delusional with power and hate. Netanyahoo is particularly bad. He's a classic megalomaniac. I once saw him at a press conference in response to a reporter's question about how he would get the US to go along with some plan he had and his answer was that "we make the decisions, not the US."

Bush used to be fond of saying "I'm the decider." Natanyahoo feels this way to. They have no sense that they are responsible to their populations or to law. They are above people and above law.

It is too bad there is no way to remove psychopaths from power. We are always stuck with our Hitlers, Netanyahoos, Cheneys, Reagans, and so on. This is a real flaw in democratic systems.
+6 # Activista 2012-01-14 11:48
Netanyahu (from the dog psychology) - has passive aggressive behavior - yes PSYCHOPATH.
Scared and unpredictable - and US congress jumps and applauds.
US is in the similar situation.
They have no sense of reality - I still believe that Israel will have internal regime change. At least Israel has opposition mass media - that US lost long time ago.
+1 # Fight the Reich 2012-01-15 10:04
If Iran was actually presnting a nuclear threat, it wouldn't take a war to clinically amputate the threat; Western Intelligence knows exactly where Iran's nuclear programs are and can reach deep into the ground and clinically turn Iran's nuclear programs into obsidian, and have practiced it to precision. Ahmedinejad is little more than Iran's version of Rush Limbaugh, and the Imams and R. Guard chiefs aren't retards and remember being slaughtered by Saddam Hussein well. But treated as equal human beings, Iran would choose a more benevelant image game IF the U.S. Fourth Reich were not such perverted greedy psychopaths deserving themselves of what they dish out.

Obama's speak of downsizing our military and consolidating government agencies is quite a contrast for gearing up for another war; But looks like some serious public relations competition between the Obama Camp and the MIC / Reich to bolster their hands in negotiating how to deal with Iran; And I dare say no Presidential administration alone stands a chance to defeat the MIC / Reich's dead-serious agendas, capabilities and resolve; No white house since JFK has been ignorant of JFK's demise. Like R. Parry admonishes us, we'd damn sure better get our voices and butts in gear before the Reich's vast & expert propaganda machine takes us right back into yet another war for no REAL reason than the MIC / Reich's Afghan heroin logistics, oil, and filthy rich $-war-$ $-contracts-$.
+27 # redjelly39 2012-01-14 00:24
So we didn't like the democratically elected PM they had (cuz he wouldn't give us the oil prices we wanted) so we had him removed and replaced him with the Shah. The people hated the Shah but we got our cheap oil prices. Once the Iranians had their fill, they removed the Shah and told us to go F ourselves (deservedly so) so we armed Iraq to bomb Iran. That didn't quite work out either as we had some crazed dictator in power and then we blew up the Twin Towers and blamed Saddam so we could have a WAR. Citigroup, General Dynamics, Halliburton, Carlyle Group really love WAR and they are calling the shots, so now that Iraq is dwindling down, we need another WAR. Well, spin the wheel and looks like it stopped on Iran - who will be the next casualty for our ever thirsty War-Mongering Corporations to continue the money siphoning from our pockets - schools, roads & infrastructure be damned.
Why are we worried about Iran with Nukes, we should be worried about ourselves since we are the only ones to use them on another nation. Why cant Iran just be Iran ? They are a sovereign nation that doesn't need us or anyone else to tell them how to live. We (The US) are the bad guys are hell-bent on World Domination.
The writing is on the wall and War with Iran is inevitable as we have no government in place that can stop it - they all work for Citigroup, General Dynamics, Halliburton & the Carlyle Group.
+1 # Ken Hall 2012-01-16 19:43
RJ: A clever synopsis of five decades of colonialism, hats off to you, and many "thumbs up"! Messing around in other countries has unintended consequences and, it seems, usually causes more trouble for the perpetrators than if they had let indigenous populations set the course of events. Viet Nam, for instance, seems to be doing fine under it's "communist" regime. It is a peaceful, thriving, country. Iraq might be, too, if it hadn't been the victim of US/Israeli colonialism. When will US citizens ever learn from events and history? The majority now favor a retreat from Afghanistan and Iraq. They were bad ideas from the start! The whole electorate should have been in the streets protesting in 2001 an 2003, but I guess they were too busy watching TV. Democracy is not a spectator sport, and "the revolution will not be televised".
+22 # Archie1954 2012-01-14 00:25
The Washington elite are sick, perverse and sociopathic beyond belief. The Post and other right wing nutcase media are just itching for another war for the US to lose. Only this time the stakes are higher than any other war since WWII. We are discussing here the end of American world supremecy if they attack Iran. Their economy is already so battered that it will not stand the shock of an oil price spike, a spike that will make all others pale in comparison. It won't be able to withstand its major creditor calling in its loans. It won't be able to handle both Russia and China backing Iran when the America stool pigeons once more do Israel's dirty work for them. Oh no this time is for real. The only good that could come out of this for the world as awhole is putting the US in its place which should have been done long ago.
+7 # John Locke 2012-01-14 09:53
Archie: They only see $$$$ and are not concerned about our economy, war makes for great profits if you are invested in military suppliers...We are all expendable when profits are on the table...
+16 # Rick Levy 2012-01-14 00:41
Americans had better realize that Iran is not Iraq or Afghanistan. A war with Iran would not be a walk in the park. Aside from the casualties resulting from that country's military prowess, such a conflict could be fraught with unintended consequences.
+7 # RMDC 2012-01-14 08:49
Rick I think you are right and I think the Pentagon knows this. They are not planning any sort of ground invasion. This will be more like Libya -- a pure air campaign with mercenaries running all over the country killing people. The son of the former Shah lives in Egypt and has been training a mercenary army for many years. He's supported by the US and claims he's ready to go into Iran and resume power as Shah any time.

The US, Nato, and Israel will bomb Iran into the stone age. There will be no water, electricity, bridges, food, sewage, communications, etc. After not too long, the mercenaries will control the nation.
+7 # Activista 2012-01-14 11:57
"more like Libya -- a pure air campaign with mercenaries running all over the country killing people"
"Liberated Libyan people" are pretty well colonized by NATO and Qataris and Emiratees are the engineers now at the oil plants ..
Wonder why NYT/mass media are so quiet about "new" Libya.
+7 # tomo 2012-01-14 14:25
"The US, Nato, and Israel will bomb Iran into the stone age." What you say is conceivable, RMDC. I can believe it because, so far as I can see, our general public feel no remorse for smashing Iraq. In fact I recently heard a member of our military command in Iraq express his bitterness that the "Iraqi people are so ungrateful for what we have done for them." With hubris of that order of insanity, our leaders can lay no claim on our confidence.
-4 # HJ7 2012-01-15 14:04
Let us hope you are right. Of course at a legal and political level they are already back in the dark ages so a shift to the stone age is not a big jump.

The strange thing is that so many liberals support an Iranian regime that treats women like cattle and demands death for homosexuality and stoning for rape VICTIMS. Strange bedfellows!
+14 # angelfish 2012-01-14 01:01
This, if true, is DISGRACEFUL! When will we stop being tools for other Country's (in this case, Israel's) Wars? We cannot and MUST not go to War with Iran. How much more blood has to be shed before these Cretins will look for peaceful means to achieve their goals? The REAL reason for these Wars in the Middle East is, of course, OIL. Until they realize that it is a finite commodity that is inedible, we will be slaves to it. A POX on all the War Mongers. Wouldn't it be JUST if it is THEIR sons that are the cannon fodder, rather than the 99%ers? Of Romney's five (5) sons, NONE of them has seen Military service. What's up with THAT? Thankfully, I have no sons or grandchildren at risk, none the less, I grieve for all the young men and women who fight old men's Wars, most of whom have only been armchair warriors at best..
+4 # John Locke 2012-01-14 09:59
Angelfish: we are not a tool for Israel, this is what the Neocons want, Israel might in fact be a tool here for the US... the neuclear potential is just an excuse, if not that there would be another contrived excuse, it has already been planned its now only when....The US wants the Oil and control of the shipping routs, and the Neocons are fully focused on this and nothing else...
-29 # Larry 2012-01-14 02:13
Israel understands all too well that a nuelear-armed Iran is tantamount to a national death sentence; Holocaust II, if you will. Question: Should Israel wait for a nuclear missle to be launched against Tel Aviv before it defends itself?
+16 # RMDC 2012-01-14 08:53
Larry -- I don't know why you believe that Iran is a death sentence for Israel -- nuclear armed or not. I know that is what the war mongers in Israel say, but just as many Israeli analysts say the opposite.

Isreal has supported Iran in the past. Don't forget the Iran-Contra scandal. The US sold weapons to Iran via Israel and used the money to support the Contra war. Israel was Iran's main supplier of weapons during the Iran-Iraq war. There were pretty close ties between the nations after that and even today.

This war crap is just the dream of the neo-cons in the US and Israel. Some are dual citizens. All are psychopaths.
+6 # John Locke 2012-01-14 10:01
Larry, a neuclear war in the region would take out the entire middle east and all the oil, I don't believe that is a reality
-2 # HJ7 2012-01-15 14:14
1. It would not take out the whole Middle East, look at a map. The Middle East is a huge area.

2. The oil is deep underground, it would still be there. Some disruption, possibly. Total destruction, no.
+23 # maddave 2012-01-14 02:51
In one way or another, we have been bullying Iran and interfering in their internal affairs ever since 1953.
...The CIA deposed Mohammed Mosadegh;
...We installed the feckless, prodigal, puppet Shah & organized & trained the dreaded SAVAK;
...We instigated & supported Iraq's war of agression on Iranm;
...We impose sanctions aimed at shutting down Iran's oil production and crippling her financial stability;
... We (obviously) work w/Israel to sabotage Iranian industrial equipment w/electronic worms;
We are certainly involved in the assassination of (to date) five Iranian nuclear scientists & engineers;
... we provoke problems by continuous saber rattling and routing US warships through Iranian territorial waters;
...We revel in irresponsible, loose talk by would-be, presidential candidates regarding bombing Iran
... Etc.,

Our most irresponsible, egregious action, however is our refusal to sit down at a table w/Iran to negotiate in good faith as equals. It costs nothing to talk, but the to-date-cost of our arrogant, imperial, insolence of dismissing Iran as negotiating partner is growing by the day with no end in sight.

Some cabal of egotistical assholes is rapidly shepherding us into a war that we cannot afford to fight and that can never win . . . in a quagmire that will entrap us for decades and cost trillions of dollars & overall, hundreds-of thousands of lives.
-5 # HJ7 2012-01-15 14:18
How can you sit down and negotiate with people who kidnap and imprison the very diplomats that are there for that purpose? Peace with Iran is very possible if they simply abandon their plan to acquire nuclear weapons and arrest and incarcerate those who participated in the seizure of the US diplomats and the US embassy.
+3 # maddave 2012-01-15 17:21
HJ7. You are obviously living on a different planet from the rest of us, and you are categorically wrong - if not insane - when you you state the the Iranians ". . . kidnap(ed) and imprison(ed) the very diplomats that are there for (the purpose of negotiating with them)."

The hostage crisis under Carter had nothing to do with negotiating with the Iranians. The people taken prisoner were not there to "negotiate - they were the Americans (CIA, et al) who were there to control the Shah and train his SAVAK thugs.

The USA has NEVER made any serious efforts to negotiate ANYTHING with Iran. . . as a matter o fact, we flatly refuse even to consider negotiations.

As for Iran's nukes: Israel is hovering over the area with +/- 150 on-the-shelf bombs and flatly refuses any inspections by IAEC. I'll let Leon Pinetta speak for me: quote: Iran IS NOT building a bomb! unquote..Iran is allowing IAEC inspections.

So just exactly whom do you suppose is the rogue state involved here?

Try listening to something other than Rush Limbaugh & FOX News, Brother. You might learn something of value. You are making a good start by checking rsn out.
0 # HJ7 2012-01-16 19:09
Quoting maddave:
HJ7. You are obviously living on a different planet from the rest of us, and you are categorically wrong - if not insane - when you you state the the Iranians ". . . kidnap(ed) and imprison(ed) the very diplomats that are there for (the purpose of negotiating with them)."

The hostage crisis under Carter had nothing to do with negotiating with the Iranians. The people taken prisoner were not there to "negotiate -

I meant negotiate in the sense that that is the purpose of diplomats in general.

It has long been a fact that a number of diplomats may in fact have other duties beyond attending the cocktails and canape circuit. If the host nation objects to that they can ask for them to be recalled always with the risk that their diplomats in Washington with "other duties" may also have to go home.

There is a long recognized international rule that diplomats have diplomatic immunity, what Iran did to those American diplomats was a crime yet no one has ever been punished for it.

Do you actually believe Iran is not trying to develop a nuclear weapon?
0 # maddave 2012-01-18 00:58
You are just digging yourself in deeper, HJ7:

The purpose of diplomats is to advance and protect a country's trade interests abroad. Historically, if the diplomate cannot advance or protect our interests, we go to war. "War is diplomacy carried t a different level." (Bismark & Von Clauswitz)

The diplomats that you ar speaking of were elbow deep in trying to hold back a revolution whose time had come. Yes diplomate are granted immunity, but when faced with the chaos of more-or-less violent spontaneous revolution, the rule (which our sanguine "diplomats" totally ignored) is is "Get the hel out of Dodge!"

Iranian nukes? Leon Pinetta sez "No (for now).", but if you were an Iranian looking down the barrel of the Israeli's 150+ operational, on-the shelf nukes, would you be building a nuclear arsenal for self defense? You bet your as you would, just as quickly as you could,
+19 # maddave 2012-01-14 03:07
Quote rom basic article: Though U.S. officials emphatically denied any role in the murder, Israeli officials did little to discourage rumors of an Israeli hand in the bombing. Some even expressed approval.Unquote

This is terrorism in its truest sense and yet we - unlike the statements of condemnation & support for the USA issued by the It Iranians on the day following 9-11 - the USA has issued not one word of condemnation. What hypocrites we are!

What we sew, so shall we reap.
+8 # J. Glenn Evans 2012-01-14 03:28
It is better to be a one time president and act like a true patriot who has the best interests of all the American citizens, than to be a Zionist lapdog. The war crimes that have been committed in our names, without being held accountable and the ongoing war crimes demand that American citizens stand up and kick those responsible for tolerating such conduct by this government out at the the next election. Do we want to answer to the world as the German people had to after the Nazi had their way?
J. Glenn Evans
+28 # seeuingoa 2012-01-14 03:57
and one thing is for sure:

The soldiers being killed in battle and
the civilians being killed in their beds
are never the sons, daughters and families of the people in power who
started the war.
+5 # Glen 2012-01-14 06:09
Thank you for your contribution to the discussion, Activista and RMDC. It illustrates the power of individuals and countries outside the influence of U.S. citizens on our government. The chance of citizens forcing policy changes is nil. The course has been set.
+15 # futhark 2012-01-14 06:41
Why do we have to see the same stupid tragedies played out over and over again? What was not learned in Vietnam had to be relearned in Iraq and Afghanistan. Now it appears that Americans who have just had a belly full of ruinously expensive and immoral warfare in the Middle East are being snookered again by the war mongers into yet another catastrophe.

Look back yourself over the last 40 years and tell me that the demonstrators marching in the streets against all these wars have ultimately not been proven to be more presciently correct than the CIA, the Pentagon, the State Department and the White House. The "best and brightest" indeed!
+19 # Barbara K 2012-01-14 06:44
There are warmongers making lots of money off war. Too bad they can't care more about the kids who have to fight the wars they send them to. We don't need another war right now, and certainly don't need a war with Iran. These people so anxious to bankrupt the country will have to find another way, killing more of our kids is not it. Send those who vote for war and their families over to fight for it. Leave ours alone, they've been thru enough already.


our future is at stake
+4 # John Locke 2012-01-14 10:04
Barbara K: you don't have to vote republican, Obama has them all around him in his cabinet, Remember he kept the Bush appointees! Why do you think?
+11 # lcarrier 2012-01-14 07:21
It's Israel that should get the sanctions, not Iran. Their assassinations, their trampling of human rights in Gaza, and their brazen defiance of UN warnings put them in the position of South Africa before Nelson Mandela. No more military aid to Israel. They just sell what they don't want to China.
0 # karenvista 2012-01-16 18:10
Quoting lcarrier:
It's Israel that should get the sanctions, not Iran. Their assassinations, their trampling of human rights in Gaza, and their brazen defiance of UN warnings put them in the position of South Africa before Nelson Mandela. No more military aid to Israel. They just sell what they don't want to China.

So do we get indefinite detention without charges for supporting Israel, Israeli groups or Israeli charities under NDAA?
+9 # Skeeziks 2012-01-14 08:04
Not sure I'd trust Israel to be our PALlies in the Mid East any longer.

Israel knew Iraq had no WMD, says MP
Associated Press

The Guardian, Wednesday 4 February 2004 03.55 EST
Article history

"...A prominent Israeli MP said yesterday that his country's intelligence services knew claims that Saddam Hussein was capable of swiftly launching weapons of mass destruction were wrong but withheld the information from Washington.
"It was known in Israel that the story that weapons of mass destruction could be activated in 45 minutes was an old wives' tale," Yossi Sarid, a member of the foreign affairs and defence committee which is investigating the quality of Israeli intelligence on Iraq, told the Associated Press yesterday..."
Go figure...
+10 # 666 2012-01-14 08:08
It makes you wonder if obama was the kind of grade-school kid who got bullied into giving up his lunch money every day. His whole presidency reads he's afraid the repubs are going to give him another "swirly".
-13 # uglysexy 2012-01-14 09:13
there is no alternative to war with or will happen
-22 # Doctoretty 2012-01-14 09:15
That's right, just blame Israel for everything! The only real democratic government in the middle east; the one that in a short time has made huge contributions to the world in science and the arts, the tiny country that has it's very existence threatened by neighbors surrounding it on all sides and whose people live in fear on a daily basis. Sure we don't always agree with what it's government is doing, as we don't always agree with our own. But that is no excuse to demonize it as many do, or to desert it as some leftist would have us do. I am not a neocon or a even a traditional conservative, but a lifelong liberal, and I have been to Israel. I do not like war, and I agree that we must try all diplomatic means possible. But if push comes to shove with some of these middle east maniacs, especially Iran, I say we stand with Israel!
+16 # Activista 2012-01-14 12:13
" I say we stand with Israel! - whose people live in fear on a daily basis"
Who is creating fear? Netanyahu government.
Netanyahoo is NOT Israel - but represents Terrorist State of Israel.
When polls are made - MOST of the Israelis and MOST of the Palestinians WANT negotiation/Peace.
Poll: Most Palestinians want peace with Israel - Haaretz Daily ...
Jun 20, 2010 – Fafo poll conducted in West Bank and Gaza finds that 89% ..
+12 # angelfish 2012-01-14 16:42
In my opinion, Israel has become what it once abhorred. Netanyahu and his ilk are like Nazi Pit-bulls, always on the attack, never looking for peace. Until they are replaced with peace loving Israelis and Palestinians the bloodshed will continue and WE will support it. I can't help but feel sorry for the Palestinians who were pushed off of their ancestral homelands when the State of Israel was created. I guess they were seen as expendable like the American Indians were to the Founders. In reality, Might DOES seem to make Right. You got it? I WANT it! I'm bigger and more powerful than you. Bingo! Now I'VE got it! "It's been burnin', burnin' since the world's been turnin'."
+3 # Skeeziks 2012-01-14 12:44
That's the problem Doc. It's always push comes to shove with Israel.

People push for land that belonged to them 'cause they want land to build on and Israel shoves back with a big no.
+8 # walt 2012-01-14 09:16
The USA is condemned to a life of being used by Israel! We are completely controlled by their Washington lobby!

Can Obama stand up to them and still be reelected? Big question.

It's sickening!
-7 # Doctoretty 2012-01-14 09:23
Obama is NOT Carter. I didn't vote for Jimbo the second time, and it had nothing to do with Israel. Although a good man, he was not a good Pres. in many ways, domestic as well as international. Obama has been weak on the domestic agenda, mostly because of Republican obstructionism. But I have no problems with his foreign policy actions so far. He is far and away our best choice in 2012. That being said, we must keep up the pressure to deal with the middle east situation diplomatically to the ultimate extent possible to avoid any more wars. But we must also remember that not all wars are unnecessary like Bush's Iraq war.
+15 # jooberdoober 2012-01-14 10:04
Who is the real terrorist here? Car bombing a 32-year-old nuclear scientist in Tehran’s morning rush hour? Sounds like terrorism to me.
-1 # HJ7 2012-01-14 15:43
No that was clearly a targeted assassination. Detonating a car bomb in a crowded market is terrorism. The aim being to kill innocents and cause terror.

Clearly whoever took out the Iranian nuclear scientist did their best to minimize collateral damage. Suggests they have first rate intelligence.
+10 # reiverpacific 2012-01-14 11:35
Well duh!
Israel's Mossad -the equivalent of the C.I.A., are one of the best-trained and efficient covert forces in the world. They are heavily funded by the US and have been working against Iran more and more steadily and provocatively since the last part of the Bush presidency, including recruiting known terrorists (so much with "No dealing with terrorists") as you can read in:
One hope I have for the US/Israeli push to war, if a small one, is that so many troops a.k.a "Cannon Fodder for the owner-capitalis ts" like the recently addressed on RSN Carlyle Group, the Koch's an their ilk, will be coming home disillusioned, damaged and deflated from a phony war based on lies and may refuse to repeat the dose against Iran -which is a Theocracy much better armed and organized than Iraq.
Of course perhaps this is the real meaning of the "exit" or "drawdown", much of the force currently being re-directed to Israel.
And again, this could be a long-planned strategy to justify the biggest embassy in the world in Baghdad -to control the entire Mid-East.
But the ghost of Suez hovers and Edmund Burke's wise observation that, "Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it."
Israel and the UK -as former perpetrators with France- could be well advised to recall the result of that former debacle on their own national status.
-4 # HJ7 2012-01-14 15:38
Quoting reiverpacific:

Israel and the UK -as former perpetrators with France- could be well advised to recall the result of that former debacle on their own national status.

There was only a problem because the USA failed to back it's principal allies. Militarily it was a success, but it was a political failure and as a result Egypt had to endure years if dictatorship.
+2 # reiverpacific 2012-01-15 11:52
Quoting HJ7:
Quoting reiverpacific:

Israel and the UK -as former perpetrators with France- could be well advised to recall the result of that former debacle on their own national status.

There was only a problem because the USA failed to back it's principal allies. Militarily it was a success, but it was a political failure and as a result Egypt had to endure years if dictatorship.

It was a "Success" initially as Nasser (Not a dictator but in fact like Mossadegu in 1953, only wanted a certain amount of revenue and benefits from the canal for Egypt) was outgunned and overwhelmingly outnumbered but after retreating within his own borders, took the simple expedient of sinking 40 ships in the canal, thereby making it impassable and forcing the aggressors to abandon their ambitions, which retreat was at the urging of the UN -and the US went along with that, possibly because they were busy engineering a coup against democratically- elected Arbenz government in Guatemala (thereby plunging the country into a long murderous nightmare from which they are only now trying to emerge) and propping up other right-wing violent dictatorships in S. & Central Americas at the behest of the Dulles Bro' criminal dynasty and United Fruit (Now Chiquita Brands).
Get y'r facts right mate -and watch where you buy y'r bananas!
-3 # HJ7 2012-01-15 14:28
Quoting reiverpacific:
at the behest of the Dulles Bro' criminal dynasty and United Fruit (Now Chiquita Brands).
Get y'r facts right mate -and watch where you buy y'r bananas!

I am already boycotting Chiquita because they are boycotting Canadian oil.
+8 # tomo 2012-01-14 13:56
We learn nothing. The inertial momentum of American history is toward invasion of Iran. WE decide who can and can't have nuclear weapons. (In the past, we were party to treaties in which we forged agreements over how many battle-ships per nation. Even Teddy though, the Father of the Great White Fleet, would not have thought he could tell other nations they could not have ANY! Within the century since, our arrogance has grown. Billions are now allocated for further refinement of American nuclear weaponry--even as we feel free to tell other countries they cannot have any, and even as we freely invade countries that do not have any --Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan.)

One can have no trust at all in Obama to stand tall for patience with Iran. The man is incapable of standing tall. We who campaigned to nominate him rather than Hillary the Hawk have long since learned how futile our effort was; for what we got was Hillarization.

Here, with the Republicans in an Alpha Male pissing contest over Iran, we can trust Obama to wiggle toward a position in which he is not an easy target. If you would prefer not to see your days on planet earth conclude with Armageddon, it may be time to line up whatever energies you have in order to resist.
+5 # Activista 2012-01-14 14:21
"Billions are now allocated for further refinement of American nuclear weaponry--"
yes - and this is not in "defense" budget - but energy department ..
US military budget is $1.63 trillion (2x the official budget)
Led by U.S., world military spending rises 1.3% – This Just In - CNN ...
Apr 13, 2011 – ... out $1.63 trillion in military spending last year, a 1.3% increase over 2009, ... The United States is the world's biggest military spender by far, ...
Deficit was $1.3 trillion ...
And we lie about military cost as CCCP did before collapse/bankru ptcy.
-15 # HJ7 2012-01-14 15:28
While no one wants a war the choice may be a war now with a non-nuclear Iran or a war in the near future against a nation prepared to detonate nuclear bombs in suicide subs or flag of convenience Q-ships just off shore from US coastal cities. With naval base support no doubt available from places like Venezuela, Central America or Cuba, a plentiful supply of suicide bombers from Hammas and Hezbollah, subs already in their inventory or for sale from North Korea that may be the alternative facing the US and Europe.
+1 # Archie1954 2012-01-14 17:02
Did you ever pause for one moment to ask if such a potential scenario as you describe was in fact a made in America Karma that is now impossible to prevent. You know the US has committed terrible and evil acts of muder, terrorism, destruction and mayhem across the width and breadth of the earth accumulating bad Karma and the hatred of billions of people all at once. Now is the time the US must reap what it has sown and there won't be too many who will grieve the end of the true evil empire.
-5 # HJ7 2012-01-15 13:06

Could it be possible that you are looking forward to seeing millions of Americans incinerated. What would be the most monstrous crime in human history and you appear to relish the thought. As for the purported things you blame on the USA. Hogwash. How much loony left Coolaid have you ingested?

My own view is that the USA is a shinning light in this world and those who post here and enjoy US citizenship should get down on bended knee and thank whichever deity they worship (Marx, Mao, one of the Kims?) for their good fortune.
-3 # dennywerk70 2012-01-14 15:40
First, thanks to RSN for giving me a chance for comment.
Now, in my 70s, having been born in Europe, shortly after the beginning of WWl1, seen and participated while in military at numerous actions, our present 'conflicts' do not differ much from the previous. There are too many similarities to not consider this next effort to be a continuous struggle of humanity to assert itself. We must remind ourselves that history will indeed repeat itself, i.e. war and other like games, regardless of what the current issues might be; we will make up what best suits our conscience for the immediate posterity and future. Check with your great-grand-chi ldren for verification or go back to the Babylonians forward for historical truth. My non-confrontati onal comment is why there'll be no responses, except perhaps from a clergy. Our psyche near the end of this millenium is confrontational in nature, just as the Big Book predicts. Read it with understanding and discernment, and tell me I'm not right, and correct me. If, in the next 50 years, we are not wiping us from the face of this earth, there might be hope for this humanity to a slight degree. If, on the other hand, we might wish to seek the true integration of our species and the future of homo sapien through unbiased assimilation, perhaps we have a greater chance of exploring the world beyond. Because, we will have problems with expansionism in less than 250 years! Hopefully, in the interim, we'll not ruin our home in the next 50!
-3 # sokolowmus 2012-01-14 23:00
Whatever you think about Israel, how can you imagine this little country dictates US foreign policy? Isn't it obvious the US uses the conflict for its own imagined benefit? Why would the US be beholden to Israel? Sounds like typical fear of the Jews, the old "they run everything" BS.
+4 # Fight the Reich 2012-01-15 11:30
"This little country's" PAC (AIPAC) is the second largest campaign funding Lobby in the USA; And the first 60% (or-so) of the republikans rationale propaganda manual (aka Bible) is the very history of Israel.

I love my God and his Word dearly; But I despise men who abuse it for their own vulgarly selfish, power and war mongering agendas that are quite the opposite of the Bible and Old Testament they thump; Not a bit different than those that abuse the Koran for same.
-5 # Larry 2012-01-15 10:21
With all respect to my friends who disagree with my belief that Iran will soon pose a very real nuclear threat to Israel, I offer the following from the Washington Post:

The Associated Press
Thursday, August 3, 2006; 10:49 AM

PUTRAJAYA, Malaysia -- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Thursday the solution to the Middle East crisis is to destroy Israel. In a speech during an emergency meeting of Muslim leaders, Ahmadinejad also called for an immediate halt to fighting in Lebanon between Israel and the Iranian-backed militant group Hezbollah.

"Although the main solution is for the elimination of the Zionist regime, at this stage an immediate cease-fire must be implemented," he said.

Ahmadinejad, who has drawn international condemnation with previous calls for Israel to be wiped off the map, said the Middle East would be better off "without the existence of the Zionist regime."

Israel "is an illegitimate regime, there is no legal basis for its existence," he said. --end of quote--

This same hate-filled war monger has also denied the Holocaust, standing in solidarity with an assortment of neo-Nazis and psychopaths who long for nothing less than a second Holocaust. I ask again, why should Israel not believe
itself to be in grave danger? How can we ignore the huge, radioactive mad elephant on the couch?
-4 # HJ7 2012-01-15 13:12
The sooner someone takes his nuclear toys away from him the better for humanity and Iran.
+4 # sheila Cee 2012-01-15 14:37
This drive to war with Iran seems to be driven by the same comments we heard about Iraq....WMD.

We have become the world's most aggressive country and frankly, if I were Iran I'd probably be looking for a deterrent to attack by the US. Remember MAD during the cold war with the USSR?

Surely, Iran knows that if they used nukes against the US first they would be wiped off the face of the earth by a barrage of nuclear bombs from the US.
+4 # David Starr 2012-01-15 15:43
"This drive to war with Iran seems to be driven by the same comments we heard about Iraq....WMD."

Exactly. It IS the same. In fact it's a similar, sickening imperial refrain that' been spouted for many years against many countries, usually poor, WMDs or not; at times wrapped up in a "new & improved packaging."

Neocons & other Righties like Israel's need a reality tour, being thrust into an imperial war unarmed & of their own making. They could directly see & experience the horrors firsthand among the recipient local populations w/ the real risk of being gunned down or bombed by U.S. &/or Israeli weapons; or experience a torture scandal, ironically being called a terrorist (not tourist) in the process.
+2 # boudreaux 2012-01-16 09:54
We need to fix our own country before we think about going into another war that we have no business in...Seems like we are the first to jump into any war that is going on and I just can't figure out why unless congress is just gung ho about war.
This is just crazy, fix our own country first and let the troops come home to regroup and rest. We treat our troops like they are so despensable and not even human. I'm sick of these wars that are killing our own people....I can't even count how many times we have gone into other countries to fight or start a fight or just keep the shit going. One angry American...

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