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Klein writes: "According to a new analysis by the consulting firm Health Management Associates (HMA), the Covid-19 crisis could lead to between 12 million and 35 million people losing employer-sponsored health coverage due to job losses."

The coronavirus shows tying health insurance to jobs is a disaster. (photo: iStock)
The coronavirus shows tying health insurance to jobs is a disaster. (photo: iStock)


It's Time to Move Past Employer-Based Health Insurance

By Ezra Klein, Vox

09 April 20


The coronavirus shows tying health insurance to jobs is a disaster. Let�s fix it.

ccording to a new analysis by the consulting firm Health Management Associates (HMA), the Covid-19 crisis could lead to between 12 million and 35 million people losing employer-sponsored health coverage due to job losses.�

Not all of them will tumble into the ranks of the uninsured. Some will be caught by Medicaid, by Obamacare, or by other safety net programs. Some will find new jobs, with new insurance. But millions will fall through the cracks, particularly in states that have refused to expand Medicaid. In a scenario where unemployment hits 25 percent � calamitous, but plausible � HMA forecasts that as many as 11 million people could find themselves uninsured. That wipes out about half of Obamacare�s coverage gains, practically overnight.

Here, as elsewhere, Covid-19 is worsening a policy problem that long predates the virus. Tying health insurance to employment is now, and always has been, a disaster. It gives bosses too much power over workers, reduces entrepreneurship, saddles businesses with health costs they can�t control and insurance problems they don�t understand, makes the tax structure more regressive, reduces wages, bloats administrative spending, and drives up costs throughout the system.�

It has also, as Paul Starr writes in Remedy and Reaction: The Peculiar American Struggle Over Health Care Reform, created a �policy trap� that has stymied health reformers over and over again: About 160 million Americans get insurance through their employers, and for all the system�s flaws, they are mostly pretty happy with that insurance, which makes them resistant to disruptive change.�

But disruptive change is here, whether anyone wants it or not. It won�t just be felt in the rising ranks of the uninsured, in the millions of people who lose the insurance provided by their workplace and have to scramble, desperately, for an alternative. It will also be felt by those who keep their job-based insurance, only to see it degrade as their employer rushes to cut costs.�

According to the Kaiser Family Foundation, average premiums for employer-based insurance have risen 54 percent over the past decade � far outpacing wages or inflation. Cost-sharing has increased, too: Average annual deductibles have doubled in the past decade. Employers have been shunting health costs onto employees in both good times and bad, and these are the worst times. Many of those who keep their employer-based insurance will see their premiums and deductibles rise, their networks narrow.

This is a crisis. But it is also, perhaps, an opportunity to solve the policy trap and finally move beyond employer-based insurance.�

The two poles of the Democratic health care debate

The Democratic primary was defined by the debate over Bernie Sanders�s Medicare-for-all plan, which, in its expansive and uncompromising ambition, rolled a number of health reform debates into one. But one of its best features, substantively, was that it ended employer-based insurance forever.�

The problem is that canceling 160 million insurance plans is likely to be a political catastrophe. When polled, it routinely turned people against Medicare-for-all. Most members of Congress � including some co-sponsors of Sanders�s bill � blanched at that level of disruption. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi dismissed it, as did the Senate Democrats who will lead the next health care push. The logic was straightforward: If the problem you�re trying to solve is that people hate losing the insurance their employer gives them, forcibly taking it away from them isn�t likely to go over well.�

Moreover, the tax increases necessary to move the entirety of the employer-based system onto the federal budget would be eye-popping. That�s what killed the statewide single-payer push in Sanders�s home state of Vermont, and Sanders never said how he�d solve it nationally.�

But if the political weakness of Sanders�s plan is that it upends too much of the current system, the substantive weakness of Biden�s plan is that it does too little to transform the current system.�

Biden�s plan leaves the current system more or less intact, but adds a subsidized, Medicare-based public option available to individuals and small businesses. Under the Biden proposal, the employer-based system remains, but if you lose your job, or simply don�t like or can�t afford the insurance offered by your employer, you have another option. The plan would also serve low-income Americans in states that refused to expand Medicaid, giving them an option they desperately need.�

But the Biden team made a series of policy choices to limit the impact their public plan would have on employer-based health insurance. Large employers are not allowed to buy into the new public option. Individuals can�t use the money their employer is spending on private health insurance to buy into the public option. What they�ve built isn�t a glide path to Medicare-for-all, or even to a new hybrid system. Instead, they�ve created a backstop to reinforce the current system, with all its flaws. And over the next year, the coronavirus is going to make those flaws gruesomely apparent.�

The Biden team�s fear is that opening the public option to all employers would destabilize the employer-based system � companies with sicker, older workforces would rush into the public system, driving up its costs, or perhaps they would nudge their older, sicker employees to enter into it so they could offload their spending onto taxpayers. These concerns are reasonable, but they�re also manageable. Whether you choose to solve them reflects whether you think the American health care system is fundamentally broken or just needs to be patched up.�

Biden�s plan would require far less in new taxes than Sanders�s plan � the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimated the 10-year cost of Biden�s proposal at $2.25 trillion while Sanders�s bill clocked in at $30.6 trillion � but even pre-coronavirus, CRFB estimated that it would still leave 10 million to 15 million people uninsured. Post-coronavirus, it will leave millions more uninsured, and it will have little to offer those who keep their employer-based plan but find themselves paying more and more for less and less.�

With Sanders�s exit from the race, Biden is a lock to win the Democratic nomination. But his win will leave many progressives disappointed. Biden needs a way to reach out to them. A good place to start would be a better health care plan � one that�s truly universal and that ends employer control over health insurance.�

Biden isn�t going to embrace Sanders�s Medicare-for-all plan. But he can do better than his current health care proposal, and he should. I can even suggest a place for him to start.

Medicare Extra is the middle ground Democrats need

Back in July, the Center for American Progress released its �Medicare Extra� proposal. As I wrote at the time, the plan was, and is, an intriguing synthesis of left and moderate ideas on health reform. It�s universal, it uses Medicare�s pricing power to hold down costs, it rebuilds the health system around public insurance � and it gives everyone, everywhere, a true choice between public and private options, no matter what their employer is offering. In all those ways, it goes much further than Bidencare.

At the same time, Medicare Extra retains private insurance options, allows employers to continue offering insurance to employees if they think they can provide something better than the public option, and it holds the total price tag to somewhere in the $2.8 trillion to $4.5 trillion range. Which is to say, it�s not nearly as disruptive as Sanders�s Medicare-for-all bill, and it only requires about a tenth of the tax increases.�

Here�s how it works:

  • Medicare Extra builds a new public insurance program called, well, Medicare Extra. The new plan shares Medicare�s name, but its benefits are much more expansive: It includes, for instance, vision, dental, and reproductive health coverage.

  • Everyone in the system, from individuals getting insurance from their employer to traditional Medicare enrollees, could choose to purchase Medicare Extra instead, and they�d be eligible for normal subsidies and employer cash-outs if they did so. So unlike in Biden�s plan, employers could buy Medicare Extra for their employees, and even if they didn�t, employees could take the money their employer is spending on private insurance and use it to buy Medicare Extra.�

  • Premiums are on a sliding scale, with Americans under 150 percent of the poverty line paying nothing and those making 500 percent of the poverty line or more seeing their total contribution capped at 9 percent of income. Cost-sharing, too, varies by income, with total out-of-pocket spending, even for the richest, capped at $5,000.

  • Newborns would automatically be enrolled in Medicare Extra, as would the uninsured and every legal resident upon turning 65. Medicaid and Obamacare would be folded into the new program, and anyone on traditional Medicare, Medicare Advantage, Tricare, Veterans Affairs coverage, the Federal Employee Health Benefits Program, the Indian Health Service, or employer-sponsored coverage could opt in.�

  • The plan saves money by expanding Medicare�s pricing power throughout the system � including to employer-provided private insurance. It�s the first of the major Democratic proposals to rely on a version of all-payer rate setting.�

There are plenty of details and decisions in this plan worth debating. But something like Medicare Extra offers a middle ground that this moment demands. It eases the disruption of reform without reinforcing the dysfunctions of the status quo; it makes employer-provided health insurance one option people can freely choose, if they prefer it, rather than making it the only option most people have; and it creates a system that, while not single-payer, is far more integrated than anything we have now: a public system with private options, rather than a private system with fractured public options.�

So far, Biden has done a good job releasing plans and making statements about how he would manage the coronavirus crisis. What he hasn�t done is reveal a vision for rebuilding in its aftermath. He�s offering a candidacy to feel relieved about, rather than inspired by. But coronavirus, and the damage it will unleash on an already broken health care system, demands more than that.�

Finding a synthesis in the health reform debate, one that respects the moderate�s fear of disruption, the leftist critique of the status quo, and the post-coronavirus reality that now surrounds us, would be a good place to start.�

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+18 # librarian1984 2017-01-13 13:26
I request that rsn put a picture of a soothing landscape or mischievous kittens at the head of a Hayden article or, better yet, don't run any more.

I have a visceral urge to regurgitate on seeing this repulsive individual.
 
 
+2 # CDMR 2017-01-13 20:32
librarian -- my feelings exactly. I will be so happy to see all of these "intelligence community" types gone. Most of Obama's intelligence chiefs are hold-overs from the Bush regime. Hayden came into the NSA in the 90s under Clinton. All of these people have invested their lives in the Bush-Clinton political machine. They know things are now changing and their life's work may be thrown in the trash. Trump's people will be different. He's not part of the Bush - Clinton political team.

I welcome the change. The 90s up to 2016 have been the worst years for democracy and human rights in the US. Hayden is right at the center of the destruction of our democracy.
 
 
-17 # Robbee 2017-01-13 22:06
Quoting librarian1984:
I request that rsn put a picture of a soothing landscape or mischievous kittens at the head of a Hayden article or, better yet, don't run any more.

I have a visceral urge to regurgitate on seeing this repulsive individual.

- we'll look into it!

while you're at it? any more requests?
 
 
-5 # Jaax88 2017-01-14 00:51
So Hayden''s looks not being up to standards reminds me trump bashing his only female primary opponent. Oh dear!

There is an interesting piece about the "only Stein progressives" and other some other leftist progressives and Russian games. It suggests Russia has been playing some progressives or taken them as useful idiots. Not saying I know enough to vouch for the article, but there are significant facts set out that give weight to the claims.
 
 
+7 # HowardMH 2017-01-14 11:03
Go here and join the protest group against Trump. Even without much publicity over 675,000 have accessed the site. We are just getting started.

Sat. Morning update the new number that have accessed the site is 1.7 MILLION. This is OVER a million more in JUST 2 Days. Thank you Rachael Maddow and all the people so very much. A week later there are OVER 3000 Groups organized.

http://www.occupy.com/article/indivisible-practical-guide-resisting-trump-agenda#sthash.JrOQ45dY.dpbs

Thank Daily Kos and go here to get the phone number of ALL in congress and CALL, CALL, CALL.

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/1/3/1616776/-The-simplest-resistance-tactic-is-right-at-your-fingertips-and-it-only-takes-a-minute

It just keeps growing and growing. Check out the Daily Kos article on Indivisible
 
 
+4 # librarian1984 2017-01-14 12:48
There are marches in 40+ cities tomorrow, Sunday 15 January, for healthcare .. though, knowing the liberals, the message will be diluted by signs for 101 causes, bless their unfocused pointy little heads.

Let's do try to stay on topic. There will be PLENTY of protests. This one is about healthcare. Let's see some great signs. Let's make the news.

This is Sanders' first show of bodies. We can scare the hell out of DC tomorrow. Show up.

For information go to BernieSanders.com

See you there!
 
 
+2 # librarian1984 2017-01-15 16:37
The rally in Philadelphia was a mixed crowd of about 600-700 people and covered by local media.

Sen. Bob Casey, one of thirteen Dems who voted against Sanders' amendment allowing people to purchase prescription drugs from Canada, was the first speaker. About twenty people booed him. He spoke to a woman carrying a sign against the thirteen and told her he was working with Sanders on a number of issues.

The woman had heard from friends at a rally in NJ that 2/3 of the crowd booed their senators, Booker and Menendes, who also voted against the amendment.

Then-Sen. Barack Obama hung Clinton's Iraq vote around her neck like an albatross. I think a few senators ambitions may have just died this week, though they don't yet know it.

This .. on the verge of millions losing their insurance.

This is not the way to win back progressives. Oh no, it is not. 2018, DP. Tick tock.

People seemed excited about the protest in Washington on January 21st. I think that is the place to be.

About 8000 attended Sanders' rally in MI.
 
 
+7 # wrknight 2017-01-14 12:43
Hayden and Clapper: birds of a feather.
 
 
+6 # wrknight 2017-01-14 12:47
Between Clapper and Hayden, I'm beginning to have hope for Trump.
 
 
+31 # DongiC 2017-01-13 13:57
Hayden is an old time intelligence operative. You gather material to make America safer assuming our leaders are on our side. With Trumpster you never know where he stands and whose side is he on? Very, very confusing.
 
 
+17 # Radscal 2017-01-13 19:07
Hayden is the main operative behind decades of illegal and unconstitutiona l surveillance of law-abiding US citizens and both individuals and the political leadership of not only our "adversaries," but also our allies.
 
 
+5 # Greg Scott 2017-01-14 15:23
I have no great sympathy or trust for US intelligence agencies but Trump is just a blatant liar.

Not sure why they would put it out there if there wasn't something to it. If the agencies really are corporate capitalist tools, why would they bother...ultima tely Trump will be a corporate capitalist tool.

I have no great love or trust for Putin and Russia. He just reads to me like an old style Russian dictator. Just because we do not like our intelligence agencies does not mean that Putin is somehow our friend. Russia, with or without Communism, is pretty much Russia. They want to expand their sphere of influence and I don't see much in that for ordinary Americans...or ordinary Russians for that matter.

By the same token, I don't see ANY good in a Trump administration for ordinary Americans. Outrage is pretty much missing the point. Take back legislatures, reverse gerrymandering and get some real progressives in charge...don't care if they're Dems or Indies for No Party affiliation. It's the policies that matter.

Keep fighting among ourselves and we just make it easy for the oligarchs.
 
 
+7 # Radscal 2017-01-14 16:32
"If the agencies really are corporate capitalist tools, why would they bother...ultima tely Trump will be a corporate capitalist tool."

And then you answer your question:

"Keep fighting among ourselves and we just make it easy for the oligarchs."

Since no evidence has been presented that Russia, or Russians, let alone Putin himself had anything to do with the documents published by Wikileaks, your negative stereotyping of Russia is irrelevant, but frankly frightening. I had hoped that the one positive thing from HRC losing was the cancelation of Cold War II and the march to war with Russia. This CIA narrative is keeping those plans alive, and that is terrifying.

The now infamous 25-page CIA/NSA/DHS "Report" on alleged Russian hacking says this:

"Disclosures through WikiLeaks did not contain any evident
forgeries."

They admit that they could find no false information. But again, we are only discussing who might have leaked or hacked the information, and not the content.

Which again, is the answer to your question.
 
 
+4 # Greg Scott 2017-01-14 21:45
I think my point was pretty much that...

It's all bread...well, not much bread...but plenty of circus.

I'm neither for nor against Russia, but I certainly don't trust them just because neo-cons are against them.

What really matters are domestic policies that really work for ordinary Americans. If we made a serious commitment to becoming energy independent with renewable sources, a lot of our foreign policy nightmares would be irrelevant.

People criticized Bernie for lack of foreign policy but if you really followed his domestic agenda, so much of our big oil driven intervention would be meaningless.
 
 
+6 # Radscal 2017-01-14 23:20
If we go to war with Russia, domestic energy production will be the least of our problems. Well, except for finding firewood to heat our caves.

But, one of the ways I don't trust Putin is that he could be in on the circus, too. The psychopathic 0.01% who are pulling the strings here, could well be puling strings in Russia, too.

Given what we do see though, it certainly appears that Russia, China and a few other countries are working together to defend themselves against decades of AAZ Empire expansionism in both wars and economics.

Clearly, in terms of body count, the US is, as MLK noted 1/2 century ago, "the greatest purveyor of violence in the world."
 
 
0 # Greg Scott 2017-01-17 02:31
Once you start a fight, especially with nuclear weapons in the mix, it tends to take on it's own life...human nature.

Trick is not to start the fight. As far as China goes, they're pretty much kicking the US butt right now economically.

I'm sorry but I refuse to romanticize Russia. I think I agree with the old school Revolutionaries I met in Cuba in 2000 who had gone to the Soviet Union for cultural exchange. They thought that the Russians got Communism wrong, that they were too dark about it...and these were believers in Communism.

(When we're counting bodies, don't forget Stalin's contribution.)

The American character is not monolithic. There is a deep seated regard for the idea of shared community among a lot of different groups of people. I have worked in shops and factories...sin ce shipped to low-wage countries...wit h a lot of so-called blue collar Americans and they were very decent people. Some became life-long friends. But often, their cultural prejudices get used by monied interests for their own ends.

Countries have interests, and our legitimate ones may not be the same as Russia's, or China's for that matter. I don't see Trump owing money to Russian investors...of whatever character and if it's true...as a good thing for an American president.

I look around and I see a lot of people who have lost hope, and pride in what they do. I don't really think a Putin-Trump bromance will do much to change that.
 
 
+1 # Radscal 2017-01-17 17:11
Of course, the Soviet Union "got communism wrong." They became a totalitarian regime run by and for the few. Quite the opposite of a Marxist, stateless communism.

But of course, the USSR has been gone for a quarter century now. What remains are the nuclear weapons, and a firm resolve NOT to be invaded again.

Yes, a lot of USians have lost hope and pride in what they do. This is true from what I read in much of the world. And that is totally appropriate response to the global fascist world order that has been growing for decades (with bipartisan resolve in the US).

I do NOT trust Trump. I do not believe him to be "an outsider." His persona was created by the corporate media over the past 30 years. His wealth comes from Wall Street and Organized Crime. He is beloved by Netanyahu and the most right-wing Zionists.

And I certainly don't believe there is any "bromance" between Trump and Putin. The Zionists HATE Russia, and have since their founding in the late 19th century.

Buying into the CIA narrative about Trump being a "Putin Puppet" is dangerous because it excuses "liberals" to be pro-war against Russia.

I am more certain by the day that putting him in the White House has been the goal of the psychopathic 0.01% from the start. Insuring that HRC took the Democratic Nomination was part of that goal.

And therefore, war with Russia may well be in the cards anyway.
 
 
+1 # Greg Scott 2017-01-18 02:14
Rad...

I'm mostly with you on all of this...

The last little bit though, I think that Hillary's team was just incompetent.

Just had a thought, I was considering the idea that the 0.01% really wanted war with Russia. It occurred to me that scaring people with Russia is far more effective for them than actually going to war. That they could not control for their own ends.

On a more fun topic...I just got back from the UK playing with the band Breakwater that I joined in 1975. You can search it on Youtube, it's the funky one. Not sure if I said before but that is a neighborhood Philly R&B/Funk band that started writing it's own material and did 2 albums on Arista that did pretty well in 1979 and 1980.

Band broke up in 1981...bands do that...but we got back together in 2009. Older and grayer but still had the feeling.

Well, seems like a lot of people in Britan had been big fans and we hooked up a couple of concerts over there. Amazing... A couple of thousand fans had been waiting for us for 35 years. Did a live 'unplugged' performance on BBC radio. Band killed but I didn't get more than about 7 or 8 hours of sleep in 5 days.

Totally worth it. I guess sometimes there are second acts in life.

Sweet...take care.
 
 
+28 # economagic 2017-01-13 21:15
I have not felt like our leaders were on our side in at least fifty years.
 
 
+6 # wrknight 2017-01-14 12:50
Quoting DongiC:
Hayden is an old time intelligence operative. You gather material to make America safer assuming our leaders are on our side. With Trumpster you never know where he stands and whose side is he on? Very, very confusing.
What on earth makes anyone willing to assume our leaders are on our side?
 
 
+10 # Winston Smith II 2017-01-13 14:12
This Hayden guy needs to study the US constitution and general theory about democratic governments. Hayden and all the rest of the so-called "intelligence community" works for the presidents and is subject to congressional oversight. They are not permitted to do ANYTHING on their own and they should not speak unless asked to.

The arrogance of the "intelligence community" is just disgusting to see. Lots of people have called Trump a fascist, but the real fascism in the United States is centered in the "intelligence community." These are the ministries that make up much of the Deep State. They work for corporations, banks, and foreign governments, not for the US. They are all military institutions. Hayden above is a general in the US Air Force (now retired).

Hayden, Brennan, Clapper and the rest are just dead-enders. They want to make some noise and strutt their stuff before they all leave government and go to work int he weapons industry for millions of dollars a year. Ignore them. They are noisy and ugly dead-enders.
 
 
-3 # olpossum 2017-01-13 19:39
Nice syntax, "Winston".
 
 
-14 # ericlipps 2017-01-13 21:18
Would you be saying all this if it were a President-elect Hillary Clinton under fire? And if not, why not?
 
 
+5 # wrknight 2017-01-14 12:53
Absolutely! It doesn't matter who's president, the deep state will control them.
 
 
+2 # Caliban 2017-01-14 00:28
Hayden, the intelligence community, and dozens more government advisory agencies work for the President -- but not as his slaves.

PLease recall that in Trump we have a new thing in US governmental history -- a President who has never before held either an elective position in government (or any government position for that matter).

Hayden and Donald's other advisors must of necessity go that extra advisory mile to guard against the pitfalls of presidential procedural ignorance and arrogance.
 
 
+9 # wrknight 2017-01-14 12:56
They sure as hell didn't work for JFK.
 
 
+6 # librarian1984 2017-01-14 13:07
The intel agencies supposedly work at the pleasure of the president. It shouldn't matter if he calls them names or humiliates them publicly. POTUS is under no obligation to buy them dinner or tell them they're pretty. What are they, snowflake princesses?

Since when does the president have to show THEM the proper respect or risk unsupported defamatory material coming out?

Good manners are nice, but toward the nation's propagandists and assassins, and a prerequisite for them to do their fracking job? I don't think so!

Are we not seeing the CIA blackmail a president right before our eyes? People may not like Trump -- but is this acceptable behavior from a (supposedly) government group with an unlimited budget and no accountability -- toward our elected executive?

Aren't we watching, in real time, the CIA go rogue? I hope Trump splinters those m-f-ers and farms them out to scattered DMVs across the land until allowed, if they show the proper gratitude, to retire without prosecution.

By 'guard against .. presidential ignorance" are you saying the intel agencies 'know better' and should act against presidential orders? Or should they just release more tapes .. and to what end? To install Pence or even Ryan?

I've taped Pompeo's hearing but haven't watched it yet. Whose man is he? What will the organization pull on him? Is it justified because they don't like Trump?

What about POTUS 46, with whom you might agree? Is that ok too?
 
 
-2 # Jaax88 2017-01-15 21:03
Can't agree with your premise. POTUS is not a king or dictator (yet.) Fortunately the American people do not have to bend down and OBEY any politicians.
 
 
+5 # citizenpaine 2017-01-14 10:54
...but the real fascism in the United States is centered in the "intelligence community."

I absolutely agree. I've often wondered how such a nice guy as Obama (and he really is a nice guy) could pursue such bloodthirsty and entropic military policies. I've concluded that he simply has implicit faith in his "intelligence" briefers, and through him he has been manipulated into implementing the Deep State's "war is good" perspective. Now they have to deal with Trump, who is rightfully suspicious. Whoa---loose cannon! Hope he knows how to maintain his personal security.
BTW, I don't like Trump; he's NOT a nice guy. Maybe it just takes one to know one, but Hayden is so obviously a snake that it's amazing he's so "wholesomely" accepted by the press.
 
 
0 # Anonymot 2017-01-15 14:55
Obama was controlled from Day 1, but the foreign policy was not his thing. It was not much Hillary's thing, either, but since the Intelligence Community owned the Clintons since Bill signed in, she said whatever she was told to say. So they had 2 rubber stampers and an aquiescent military and "security" apparatus at their command. That didn't happen yesterday. Read THE DEVIL'S CHESSBOARD, Talbot, a brilliant, deeply document about how we got here!
 
 
-2 # mmc 2017-01-14 11:11
Now we know: Adolph survived the bunker and now call s himself Mr. Smith.
 
 
+2 # mmc 2017-01-14 11:27
Does the name Lt. Calley mean anything to you?
 
 
+7 # Radscal 2017-01-14 17:03
Yeah, it means "fall guy."

Though even at that, he did end up with a minimal sentence. Literally a few days in prison and then 3 1/2 years of house arrest.

As Nick Turse made clear in his fully substantiated book, "Kill Anything that Moves," the order to commit such atrocities (or at least to permit them) came from very high up.
 
 
-2 # Jaax88 2017-01-15 20:52
Everyone with an interest in world affairs after WWII knows that following an illegal military order (Calley) is a punishable crime. Hardly a fall guy.
 
 
0 # Radscal 2017-01-16 00:49
Everyone with an interest in the history of the Vietnam War knows what I wrote is exactly true. Most of the atrocities were covered up, and My Lai would have been too, had not a brave enlisted man gone to Sy Hersh. Then Major Colin Powell had already buried the report, as usual.

Because that one horrible atrocity became public knowledge, the Brass had to make a show court martial of Calley and a few others.

And again, as I wrote, even with that, Calley was the only one sentenced, and he spent a couple days in jail, and was ultimately pardoned.

The Pentagon and White House did NOT want the genie to come out of that bottle, since atrocities were so widespread, so they presented it as a "few bad apples." i.e.. a fall guy.

Perhaps you should look up what a "fall guy" is.
 
 
+17 # Winston Smith II 2017-01-13 14:40
 
 
+50 # mashiguo 2017-01-13 15:06
Assange is a known liar?
Coming from the US intelligence community?

Does anyone else see the irony in this?

As for the intelligence community being unafraid?
Why would they be?
They have already gotten away with murder.

...no happy ending indeed.
 
 
+5 # kath 2017-01-13 18:33
In my opinion the "intelligence community" should be intimidated by Donald Trump. Like it or not, he is the next president. It's to be hoped that Trump is not intimidated by our swollen spider web of spy shops and Homeland "Security" honchos, whether they clumsily leak a tape of his alleged escapades (a threat if I ever saw one) or not.
 
 
+14 # Jim Rocket 2017-01-13 21:22
There are no "good guys" in this scenario.
 
 
+15 # dandevries 2017-01-13 19:07
And we're supposed to believe anything Michael Hayden says? Give me a break!
 
 
+20 # acomfort 2017-01-13 19:13
Hayden States:
"Assange is a known liar, and how would he know the ultimate provenance of the emails, anyway?"

Maybe someone at RSN will list in detail Assange's lie or lies?
Alongside of that, list the "American intelligence community's lies.

Do that and Assange will come out most trustworthy.

Or look at how many times the American intelligence community has been wrong compared to how many times Wikileaks has been wrong. You should get the same results . . . Wikileaks is more trustworthy than the American intelligence community.

I await your response.
 
 
+17 # Noni77 2017-01-13 19:43
General Hayden was put in charge of NSA in the 1990's after the Iron Curtain fell to eviscerate their numbers. Instead, a plan was hatched that would be known as "9/11". His deputy, Barbara McNamara would NOT go along with the False Flag attack so she was "moved" to GCHQ in London and replaced by the criminal Bill Black Jr., who had no problem like Hayden, murdering thousands of Americans to keep the power and budget of the Cold War Intelligence Community they were accustomed to. So the traitorous, self-serving IC is NOT afraid of Trump? They're lying or planning to assassinate.
 
 
+3 # ericlipps 2017-01-13 21:20
You have what evidence for this? It would make a nice political thriller if it were properly written, but that doesn't make it true.
 
 
-6 # Kiwikid 2017-01-14 01:53
Yep, Eric - we're back in the twilight zone
 
 
+5 # Radscal 2017-01-14 17:05
Speaking of Twilight Zone, you never replied to my posting about the CIA coup of Australia in the 1970s. You good with that?
 
 
+11 # m... 2017-01-13 20:54
When are the 'TRUMPELTHINSKI N- President of Crazyland' T-Shirts going on sale..?
 
 
+16 # Vardoz 2017-01-13 21:02
Anything goes with this mob. Bill Clinton foiled an attempt on the WTO. I remember. They didn't have to have a 911 to go in Iraq. But they did create the Patriot Act which stripped us of our right to due process. I think the military could have hatched a less dramatic and less murderous event to get what they wanted. But they are a mafia and when they want to get something done they just do it. Anybody is considered collateral damage.
 
 
-9 # Kiwikid 2017-01-14 01:55
Seriously? How many of you are there that believe this nonsense? - It seems like an epidemic.
 
 
+8 # mdmcdmd 2017-01-13 21:45
Don't fall for Trump's gaslighting.

The degree of narcissism and ignorance about to take office is off the scale.

Suddenly the voices of Hayden, Graham, McCain, McConnell, etc.,are sounding relatively sane and reasonable. Wow.

What a mess.
 
 
+6 # Winston Smith II 2017-01-14 08:45
 
 
+3 # wrknight 2017-01-14 12:59
Quoting mdmcdmd:
Don't fall for Trump's gaslighting.

The degree of narcissism and ignorance about to take office is off the scale.

Suddenly the voices of Hayden, Graham, McCain, McConnell, etc.,are sounding relatively sane and reasonable. Wow.

What a mess.

Actually, I was thinking the opposite.
 
 
+2 # anachronis 2017-01-13 21:54
 
 
+2 # anachronis 2017-01-13 23:40
*
A different point of view:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/01/13/guar-j13.html
 
 
+1 # anachronis 2017-01-13 23:45
*
Another instance of a different, and refreshing, point of view:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/01/13/cybe-j13.html
 
 
+5 # anachronis 2017-01-13 23:49
*
Still another refreshing, different point of view:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/13/did-the-russians-really-hack-the-dnc/
 
 
+6 # Wally Jasper 2017-01-14 10:29
This article in particular, through carefully detailing how emails are hacked, thoroughly debunks the notion that the US Intelligence community has any definitive evidence that Russia is behind the attacks.
 
 
-5 # Kiwikid 2017-01-14 01:58
Oh, come on! Even Trump and his team have now accepted that the Russians hacked the election process. Why is the obvious so difficult for so many of you to accept when it doesn't conform to your predetermined narrative?
 
 
0 # bardphile 2017-01-13 22:19
Hannity is not a Trump acolyte. Trump is a Hannity acolyte, more like. Remember those "interviews" before the election, with Sean leading the Donald around by the (figurative) ring in his nose? Hilarious, at least until the votes came in.
 
 
+7 # PaineRad 2017-01-13 22:55
Like you weren't intimidated by Darth Cheney into massaging, bending and twisting the intel so as to create WMDs in Iraq?
 
 
+11 # ronnewmexico 2017-01-13 23:19
 
 
+3 # librarian1984 2017-01-14 13:19
"they cannot understand the written or spoken word"

I think they cannot BELIEVE the written or spoken word. Imagine what their world is like. Everything is a calculated maneuver. Nothing is true, only verifiable. Nothing is authentic, only desirable or not.

Further, they do not believe we should judge them by their past words and actions because they perceive this as a game, with winners and losers.

Also, because they never have to worry about funding or accountability, they have developed a hyperbolic sense of entitlement.

What keeps them from recognizing truth is their culture .. and their arrogance.
 
 
-1 # chemtex2611 2017-01-14 01:29
you all sound pretty naive about spying and hacking. There is little or nothing that Mr. T knows about either. The Russians are smarter than you might think -- they are the proverbial rat in the corner. Russia is plagued by falling energy prices, their military is run by hazing, and the population is falling due to the high rates of AIDS and TB and alcoholism. The only thing Putin has going for him is his old spook nature, just like Bobby Inman and Daddy Bush. He has body doubles of Mr.T and has a spy team following him and listening in and having his computers. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if Mr. T likes Mr. P well enough to get rid of sanctions.
 
 
+7 # ronnewmexico 2017-01-14 13:30
 
 
+8 # MDSolomon 2017-01-14 13:12
Nice try, Michael Hayden, but not nearly clever enough.

You may want to pretend that the intelligence agencies represent some type of thoughtful council of analytic minds who serve the American people, but this has never been the case.

As is obvious from the time it was created by Allen Dulles, the CIA has been a tool of the Anglo-Euro-Amer ican banking cartel and its corporations, who not only aided Hitler, but hired many of his intelligence officers when the OSS morphed into the CIA and doubled in size.

So, we get that Trump, for all his misogyny and ego-maniacal behavior, is not under your control and that you need to invent stories to impeach him, or worse.

Luckily, more and more people are seeing through your pitiful charade and, let's be frank, treason, as your controllers include foreign nationals.

http://coloradopublicbanking.blogspot.com/2017/01/us-intelligence-reports-fail.html
 
 
+1 # rogerhgreen 2017-01-14 22:09
If I could, I would lock Trump, Hayden and Clapper in a small room and open the door when semi-liquid started running out under the door. Unfortunately I can't, not being able to get my hands on any of the three. Is what's going on good for the country? For that matter, would what I say I would do if I could be good for the country? I don't know. Is there anything anybody could do right now that would be good for the country? Sadly, it doesn't seem so.
 
 
0 # dquandle 2017-01-17 01:17
Translation: we ain't afraid of assassinatin' anybuddy
 

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