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Moore writes: "So Roseanne Barr woke up [Tuesday] morning and posted hateful, slanderous tweets about me, Valerie Jarrett, George Soros and Chelsea Clinton - and within hours, ABC fired her."

Michael Moore. (photo: The New York Times)
Michael Moore. (photo: The New York Times)


Rosanne and Trump: One Down, One to Go

By Michael Moore, Michael Moore's Facebook Page

31 May 18

 

o Roseanne Barr woke up [Tuesday] morning & posted hateful, slanderous tweets about me, Valerie Jarrett, George Soros & Chelsea Clinton — and within hours, ABC fired her. The same ABC who hired her after years of her posting other tweets saying Hillary was running a child sex abuse ring out of a pizza restaurant in DC, that the Clintons had murdered people, and anyone who criticized Benjamin Netanyahu was a Nazi. The same Roseanne who referred to black people (even back then) as apes, and Arabs as, well, every racist thing you can imagine. That Roseanne. Like Trump, she went on a Wild White Racist tear during the Obama years.

Did you ever wonder why, in 2011, NBC didn’t fire Donald Trump when he launched his racist birther movement, declaring the President a Kenyan and a Muslim?

Roseanne, the viscous slur at me you retweeted [Tuesday] — if I had the time I’d sue you and drain you of every dime you have. But I’ve got a better idea. As they say in the movies: one down, one to go.


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-103 # Rodion Raskolnikov 2018-05-31 10:47
Good questions. Obviously, times have changed. The media has changed. Now it is get Trump 24/7. Rosanne could be associated with Trump and so she can get the axe. In 2011, Trump was not president so his attacks on Obama were just good publicity and made money for ABC.

Now let's see if TBS fires Samantha Bee for calling Ivanka Trump a "feckless cunt."
 
 
+16 # evolver 2018-05-31 14:56
Samantha Bee has already apologized and said "I crossed the line." Bravo for her! Let's have more of it!!
 
 
-2 # librarian1984 2018-06-01 08:39
Well I say "Fuck the Clintons, especially that c*nt Hillary, and the horses they rode in on. I'm sorry."

Is that okay? Are you going to applaud that?
 
 
0 # tclose 2018-06-03 08:09
Only if you apologize for saying that.
 
 
0 # librarian1984 2018-06-03 14:33
I already did.
 
 
+27 # sus453 2018-05-31 16:07
Quoting Rodion Raskolnikov:
Good questions. Obviously, times have changed. The media has changed. Now it is get Trump 24/7. Rosanne could be associated with Trump and so she can get the axe. In 2011, Trump was not president so his attacks on Obama were just good publicity and made money for ABC.

Now let's see if TBS fires Samantha Bee for calling Ivanka Trump a "feckless cunt."


Really? You don't see that Roseanne and Trump are both out and out racists? I'm not a fan of Samantha Bee (re: her treatment of Bernie Sanders), but at least she was telling the truth in this case.
 
 
+43 # Texas Aggie 2018-05-31 19:17
As you are well aware, what Samantha Bee called Ivanka doesn't even begin to reach the depths of Roseanne's name calling. And furthermore, Roseanne has a long history of this kind of behavior, while Samantha only goes there in extraordinary circumstances, like when little kids are being kidnapped from their mothers who are legally in the US requesting asylum.
 
 
+16 # lfeuille 2018-05-31 20:06
And, what Bee said was true. It is only her choice of words that can be criticized. Ivanka IS feckless.
 
 
-9 # kyzipster 2018-06-01 00:24
Samantha Bee is a woman, it's like an African American using the 'N' word, this context does matter in my opinion.

It's like Roseanne Barr posing for a cover of a magazine dressed like Hitler serving cookies that represented baked Jews. About as offensive as it gets but she's Jewish. It was for a Jewish satire magazine, questioning when it's OK to make jokes about the Holocaust.
 
 
+7 # librarian1984 2018-06-01 08:35
No question Samantha Bee went over the line. Now any critic can call HER the c-word -- and what defense does she have? It's not like it was a heated tirade and she slipped. At the moment she said it there was a huge "C***" plastered across the screen -- so it was planned, okayed and choreographed -- calling *not POTUS* but a *child* of POTUS the worst name anyone can call a woman.

It boggles my mind that supposed liberals and feminists defend this. The damage Trump and the GOP are doing can one day be undone, but Trump's fracturing our basic humanity is more difficult to repair -- and it is affecting the left. RR has 86 negatives? Trump Derangement Syndrome indeed.

In general comedians like Bee, Maher, Oliver, Noah, Colbert have been much less funny ADT (After Donald Trump). I miss Jon Stewart. He managed to combat W and Cheney while still cracking US up. He could bring people together, even open people's eyes.

But for some reason this group doesn't understand that strident nagging and shaming is not funny, even if you agree with the underlying sentiment. It doesn't awaken anyone. Instead it hardens their opinions. I truly believe much of the right's sticking with Trump comes from our relentless, sometimes unhinged, attacks.

The media, controlled by corporations, must think Bee et al are serving some purpose. But they would not give a voice to truthtelling comics like Bill Hicks, Lenny Bruce or George Carlin.

I miss comedy.
 
 
+3 # kyzipster 2018-06-01 13:53
I think Samantha Bee is brilliant and has some substance, call me a hypocrite if you want but I disagree. Her feminist credentials are very much intact, she has a solid record of truth telling. Comedy and satire are sometimes the only way to cut to the truth these days and Bee is good at it. Her history of the religious right was a bit amazing. Hilarious and educational. Younger people simply don't know how we ended up in this mess we're in, her method that came out of the Daily Show, might be the only way to reach some people. I could care less if she gets crude now and then.

The difference between what Roseanne did and Bee is apparent to me, and she's not the POTUS. I'm very sensitive to the 'F' word, zero tolerance in some instances, but if a gay person uses it, and some have, it's not the same as a gay hating straight person. What Bee did is not the same as some anti-feminism man doing it. I don't mind most of Roseanne's crudeness at all, I think it's funny, but she most definitely crossed a line this time. If Bee gets cancelled, she'll recover imo, I don't think Roseanne will.

Lenny Bruce and George Carlin were arrested on obscenity charges and Bruce was banned from England.
 
 
0 # librarian1984 2018-06-02 07:00
Respectfully disagree.

Bee derailed the real story, exposed liberals as hypocrites, gave conservatives fuel and used a term .. again, she's done it before .. that's been used to demean women for a long time, contemptuously reducing them to one body part.

And I'll forgive a lot if something's funny. This just wasn't, imo. It was incredibly lazy and shallow.

I believe Bee and Oliver, among others, with their rants against progressives last year, exposed themselves as corporate tools.
 
 
0 # kyzipster 2018-06-02 10:47
Their rants against progressives were probably nothing more than a difference of opinion. We saw very similar divisions right here at RSN. I'm somewhere in the middle, I was behind Bernie until he conceded the nomination, I was dismissed as a paid troll for defending my position. The same position that Bernie encouraged, to vote against Trump. Tax cuts and threats of deportations were at the top of my list to justify a vote for Hillary.

I disagreed with Bee's rants against Sanders supporters, I never saw Oliver.
 
 
+3 # librarian1984 2018-06-02 12:25
I really don't remember anyone calling you a paid troll. The Correct the Record people were pretty obvious, and I don't recall the word 'troll' getting tossed around much at rsn until the Russian trolls became a meme.

Most Sanders supporters thought people should make their own decision about who to vote for. It was Hillbots who attacked people for not wanting to vote for Hillary.

That's my memory but it could, of course, be wrong.
 
 
0 # kyzipster 2018-06-02 16:16
Maybe it was Hillary bot, or something like that, but it happened quite a bit. It wasn't a big deal but conversation came to a halt if a person stepped outside of certain boundaries, like not voicing absolute condemnation of a vote for Hillary. All kinds of assumptions made about a person, like we bought into the whole Dem establishment, too stupid to see the truth. I pretty much gave up having any kind of dialog. The tax cuts were my biggest issue and of course, they sailed through.

I come here for that sort of stimulation, mainstream liberal chatting is pretty boring, and I come off as far left in those forums. It was a very passionate election.
 
 
+8 # Michaeljohn 2018-06-01 15:13
"I miss comedy."

Amen ... we have to stop the division
 
 
+21 # Barbell 2018-05-31 14:06
Samantha Bee has the perfect defense: TRUTH!
 
 
0 # librarian1984 2018-06-01 08:43
Bullshit. NO WOMAN is a cunt.

That language is unacceptable. All Bee did was show conservatives what hypocrites we are.
 
 
-9 # HenryS1 2018-05-31 14:31
I don't often agree with RR, but he is right about Samantha Bee. That insult is over the line, and it is also unfair to criticize Ivanka for not controlling her father's actions.

The operative difference that makes one cause for firing is probably that racism DOES carry some consequences that ugly nastiness in the pursuit of the limelight doesn't. But I put both as about equally "wrong" in my personal opinion. And the Samantha Bee one is more calculating. Also, less people are likely to defend Ivanka, but a lot of people are angered by slurs against black people.

I didn't know about that particular Samantha Bee quote. Ouch!

I'm ready for the red!

On the main topic, I can understand Michael Moore being pleased at Roseanne's firing. Everybody has someone they disagree with strongly enough that one is tempted to question free speech, and what Roseanne says gets under my skin, painfully. But being called the name SB used, for no better reason than to make ratings, has got to be a painful experience.
 
 
+18 # Trumpistheswamp 2018-05-31 16:03
Sue her Michael! RSN can use the money. Bernie too, and the Greens!
 
 
+11 # goodsensecynic 2018-05-31 19:20
At least Sam (under pressure, no doubt) apologized.

Frankly, I don't care about the language used by Roseanne or Samantha.

I do think, however, that some of the hyperbole/hypoc risy coming from the President's supporters should be tempered. After all, he is the President of the United States ... which is (last time I looked) not supposed to be a joke.
 
 
+5 # HenryS1 2018-05-31 20:33
I guess I just lack the killer instinct here. It looks like everyone wants to support Bee's comment. I just read this:

Jimmy Kimmel Live! comedy writer Bess Kalb tweeted, “It’s absolutely wrong to call Ivanka a “feckless c–t.” She’s a lot more than that. She’s a feckless c–t WIFE. She’s a feckless c–t SISTER. She’s a feckless c–t DAUGHTER. And she’s a feckless c–t BUSINESSWOMAN. She contains feckless c–t MULTITUDES.”

A lot of anger here. But viciousness is just going to shift people in the middle right, and I hate to see that. Not that there are a lot of people left "in the middle".

Sigh.....
 
 
+3 # kyzipster 2018-06-01 14:07
That is pretty funny, the political incorrectness and all. Again, coming from a woman, I think she's allowed.

I don't disagree with your comment necessarily and it's something I've thought about a lot recently, but to play devil's advocate I'll post the Paradox of Intolerance: "Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. "

It seems to me that if we don't take a stand, we're accepting the horrific state of the Republican Party as a legitimate POV. That is happening more and more in the media. If people in the 'center', whatever that is, don't understand what's going on, can't distinguish between right and wrong, I don't know what can be done about it. Hopefully it will run it's course but I don't see value in not speaking to the hate.

Samantha Bee's comment wasn't necessary, but I think you're touching on a larger issue.
 
 
0 # johnescher 2018-06-02 10:14
Quoting HenryS1:


Jimmy Kimmel Live! comedy writer Bess Kalb tweeted, “It’s absolutely wrong to call Ivanka a “feckless c–t.” She’s a lot more than that. She’s a feckless c–t WIFE. She’s a feckless c–t SISTER. She’s a feckless c–t DAUGHTER. And she’s a feckless c–t BUSINESSWOMAN. She contains feckless c–t MULTITUDES.”

A lot of anger here.


No anger. After first use of the word it's just running with the idea.
 
 
+7 # Adoregon 2018-05-31 22:30
Roseanne seems not to have been paying attention to what has been afoot over the past year or so regarding the treatment of women and "people of color," especially black people.

Roseanne's comeuppance was the best, most satisfying example of instant karma I've seen in a long time.

However, Resident Rump's recalibration will be epic, will be truly Shakespearean in its vast humiliation and impoverishment.
Great pride precedes the fall, even for the Donald.
 
 
+5 # thehodges1 2018-05-31 23:25
This too sad. Watching a young country being turned into nothing but a blind dictatorship this is really sad. Only the rich survive when all who are not native believe this country is theirs to destroy.
 
 
+2 # janie1893 2018-06-01 01:25
Much as I dislike Ivanka Trump, no woman deserves to be called by the C word. That truly is not forgivable.
 
 
+5 # Jim Young 2018-06-01 09:34
Roseanne Barr, Samantha Bee, and Kathy Griffin (a year ago) at least apologized, as did Al Franken and numerous others.

Trump asks where his call of apology is from Iger and ABC?

By my count he should only get one apology and that should be from Bernie Sanders, who said Trump "NEVER" apologized. According to Factcheck, in the second presidential debate:

"...Trump, Oct. 10, 2016: This was locker room talk. I am not proud of it. I apologize to my family, I apologize to the American people. Certainly, I am not proud of it. But this is locker room talk. … Yes, I am very embarrassed by it and I hate it, but it’s locker room talk and it’s one of those things..."

Now Trump only owes us several thousands of apologies before he gets another.

I'd suggest he start with apologizing for NOT SHOWING US HIS TAX RETURNS, before starting down the list of so many of his toxic cesspool of political appointees.
 
 
+8 # librarian1984 2018-06-01 10:11
Sally Field, 71, tweeted:

"Roseanne was wrong to call Ivanka Trump a cunt.
Cunts are powerful and nurturing."

There were more descriptors I don't recall. While I disagree with Bee's use of the c-word, this was a pretty clever response.
 
 
+2 # librarian1984 2018-06-01 10:58
I thought Bee -- and liberals -- were smarter than this.

Why do this right after Barr got fired? Now, if TBS doesn't fire her it gives fuel to social conservatives -- not for a day or a week but through the midterm elections. It allows them to claim moral superiority and victimhood. Brilliant, Bee.

Why was she willing to detract from the real story? It was reprehensible and tone deaf when Ivanka posted a picture WITH HER CHILD while immigrant children are being torn from their parents -- but now the story is about Bee instead.

THAT IS STUPID.

And it just wasn't funny. It was lazy and added nothing. All it did was derail legitimate criticism of Trump's policy. It will be used by conservatives over and over again to illustrate the left's intolerance and hypocrisy.

And what hypocrisy! We criticize how Trump talks about women, the vile language he uses, and then -- rather than setting a better example -- we do the SAME thing?!

YOU DON'T DEFEAT TRUMP BY JOINING HIM.

Bee has already apologized -- so why on earth are supposed feminists defending it? Because Trump justifies any behavior? That is short sighted and counterproductive.

People who can't see the problem with what Bee did will never be part of the solution.
 
 
+2 # kyzipster 2018-06-01 14:23
Nobody called on Roseanne to get fired, there wasn't time, ABC did it without hesitation. It only took a few hours.

Roseanne apologized. Trump came to Roseanne's defense along with his supporters from what I've seen.

All they do is prove their support of racism over and over again, I don't know what form of racism they might be willing to distance themselves from. Honestly, I don't, they've embraced it all, the white supremacists at Charlottesville , all of it. They cannot bring themselves to condemn any of it, only a handful have had the courage. They insist they're not racist and act like victims when they see the word.

I don't see the value in worrying about their reaction to anything. Bee apologized, so did Roseanne, Trump will never apologize.
 
 
+1 # librarian1984 2018-06-02 07:11
Quoting kyzipster:
I don't see the value in worrying about their reaction to anything.
'They' are not monolithic. There were millions of Obama-to-Trump flippers, people whose support for him is squishy and don't like his crudeness and treatment of women. Bee just showed them there's not much difference on that score. That clip is going to be used to motivate conservative turnout in the midterms. Considering the left is notoriously bad in that regard, I'd say that's foolish.

If we expect moral courage from the right, in denouncing abuses on their own side, shouldn't we show a bit ourselves? Bee has already said it was a mistake, so why defend it?

Personally, as a female and a feminist, I don't want 'cunt' normalized.
 
 
0 # kyzipster 2018-06-02 11:00
Conservatives are masters at motivating conservative turnout. Fear of men wearing dresses and raping women at Target, if they have nothing else, we're all baby killers with our support of abortion rights. We're going to take their guns, etc etc. There's very little we can do to deflect that. I think Bee's comment will pass through the news cycle with little impact.

What progressives need to do is get behind Sanders' agenda to attract voters, Trump is doing plenty to repulse voters. I think we can agree on that, although I don't see that happening with the DNC.

You're right about Bee apologizing and I do believe she crossed a line, I should have made that clear. It wasn't needed. That's all it is imo, a comedian who made a miscalculation. Bee is not sexist but I believe Roseanne may have exposed herself as racist. I'm defending her comment as not as bad as Roseanne, not even close imo. I understand the reaction to it. I'm not criticizing the anger, not meaning to anyway.
 
 
+1 # librarian1984 2018-06-02 12:20
Agreed on all counts.

Maher lost it this cycle too, though he did actually have Sen. Sanders on last night. He also had on NeverTrumper-bu t-very-conserva tive-climate-de nier NYT hire Bret Stephens, who told us several times that Democrats can't afford to run too far left and shouldn't run progressive candidates.

Why we would take his advice I don't know. I wish someone on the show would have called him on it.
 
 
0 # kyzipster 2018-06-02 17:24
It's so frustrating, Democrats have been tiptoeing down the mythological center since Reagan threatened to wipe them out. So much has changed since the Bill Clinton years, we're living with the inevitable result of 40 years of neoliberalism/R eaganomics. Red state voters will never vote for the other tribe but enough swing voters will come over if Democrats offered something to vote for. I'm reminded of that pathetic picture of John Kerry walking through the woods, carrying a rifle. Like the NRA folks are really gonna change their minds because of a staged photo op!

I think we're experiencing a new Labor Movement, I wish someone would start calling it that. I don't mind 'socialism', I think it's healthy to throw that word into the debate, take it back, but it's a labor movement. A big part of our history, can't very well compare it to the USSR. It won't manifest by shutting down factories and unionizing workers, not much, it will be a federally mandated living wage, health care, college, etc.
 
 
+2 # librarian1984 2018-06-02 20:07
It IS frustrating. I feel like people have been conditioned to think this is what it's supposed to be like. We live in the richest country in the world but you wouldn't know it.

The statistics are horrendous. Two thirds of us can't scrounge up funds for a $1000 emergency, for example. That is not right.

My mother has worked hard, done everything she was supposed to her whole life, but she often chooses between heat and food or medicine versus gas for the car. But it's been going on so long she thinks that's normal.

If all the people who agreed with Bernie's policies would just vote for him we could start to get rid of the neoliberals, and turn things around.

It IS exciting to see the new labor movement rising up ... teachers, nurses, truckers ... really great.
 

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