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Kucinich writes: "The most consequential statement by Secretary Clinton in last night's debate was her pronouncement that a no-fly zone over Syria could 'save lives and hasten the end of the conflict,' that a no-fly zone would provide 'safe zones on the ground' was in 'the best interests of the people on the ground in Syria' and would 'help us with our fight against ISIS.'"

Dennis Kucinich. (photo: Facebook)
Dennis Kucinich. (photo: Facebook)

War or Peace?

By Dennis Kucinich, World Beyond War

22 October 16


he most consequential statement by Secretary Clinton in last night’s debate was her pronouncement that a no-fly zone over Syria could “save lives and hasten the end of the conflict,” that a no-fly zone would provide “safe zones on the ground” was in “the best interests of the people on the ground in Syria” and would “help us with our fight against ISIS.”

It would do none of the above. A US attempt to impose a no-fly zone in Syria would, as Secretary Clinton once cautioned a Goldman Sachs audience, “kill a lot of Syrians,” and, according to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General Dunford, lead to a war with Russia. If the US has not been invited into a country to establish a “no-fly zone” such an action is, in fact, an invasion, an act of war.

It is abundantly clear from our dark alliance with Saudi Arabia and our conduct in support of jihadists in Syria that our current leaders have learned nothing from Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya as we prepare to plunge head-long into the abyss of a world war.

Our international relations are built upon lies to promote regime changes, the fantasy of a unipolar world ruled by America, and a blank check for the national security state.

As others prepare for war, we must prepare for peace. We must answer the mindless call to arms with a thoughtful, soulful call to resist the coming build up for war. A new, resolute peace movement must arise, become visible and challenge those who would make war inevitable.

We must not wait until the Inauguration to begin to build a new peace movement in America. your social media marketing partner


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+177 # guomashi 2016-10-22 12:00
Powerful and 100% true.
Who is going to start it?
Are you ready to die for it?

The fascist state of US cannot be trusted to respect constitutional guarantee of the right of citizens peacefully to assemble for redress of greivances.
+79 # anarchteacher 2016-10-22 18:06
"We must not wait until the Inauguration to begin to build a new peace movement in America."

This is precisely why Dennis Kucinich and former Colin Powell chief of staff, Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, serve on the advisory boards of The Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity.

The Institute continues and expands Dr. Paul’s lifetime of public advocacy for a peaceful foreign policy and the protection of civil liberties at home.

The Institute mobilizes colleagues and collaborators of Dr. Paul’s to participate in a broad coalition to educate and advocate for fundamental changes in our foreign and domestic policy.

A prosperous America is profoundly linked to a foreign policy rooted in peaceful relations and trade with all. With peace, comes real prosperity.
+52 # RMDC 2016-10-22 20:06
anarch -- thanks for this. I did now know about this but it is very good and useful. It is so good to see the link between Kucinich and Paul. Wilkerson is good too. What a turn this guy has made.
+76 # jdd 2016-10-22 20:38
In 2008 Congressman Kucinich presented 35 articles of impeachment of Bus that were subsequently taken off the table by Nancy Pelosi.The failure to impeach Bush gave us Barack Obama, who continued and expanded the wars Bush/Cheney began. The failure to impeach Obama for his war crimes has now led to Hillary Clinton, who is even worse. Because a Clinton victory will be used by Obama as a mandate to continue his provocation of Russian and China, it is imperative that in the lame duck session Obama and then HRC have their feet held to the fire.
+19 # Majikman 2016-10-23 07:26
jdd, how do you propose that BHO & HRC have their feet held to the fire? Once upon a time in a land far away, holding their feet to the fire meant lots of pissed off citizens peacefully demonstrating in front of the WH or other important venue. Today, such activity will get your ass hauled off to jail, your head busted and the FBI etal. harassing you.
Letters,phone calls & petitions to congress persons are considered annoyances and have no effect unless you have LOTS of money.
So every time I hear someone talk about "feet to the fire" I know they are clueless.
+4 # Capn Canard 2016-10-23 11:59
Yeah. We must never protest like those in Mexico protesting the missing 43 student teachers.
Protesting bad.
Cowardice good.
Capitulate, check.

Got it Majikaman.

+14 # Majikman 2016-10-23 16:18
Who's talking capitulate? I'm just questioning how they propose to hold feet to the fire. Worked great with Obama, right?

Now if I had my way, we'd have massive civil disobedience and strikes, like France.

Strikes and walkouts don't get people killed or beaten like demonstrations.
+5 # Johnny 2016-10-24 12:46
There ain't no fire to hold them to.
+31 # librarian1984 2016-10-22 20:56
Very interesting -- and heartening. Thanks for the links and information.
+35 # indian weaver 2016-10-23 06:25
Thanks for this reference. Although I've always been Democrat or more "liberal", I almost voted for Ron Paul solely on the basis of his anti-war / anti-invasion policy in his presidential campaign. Same for Rand Paul. Both men are outliers in the GOP and their non-aggression policy outweighed all of their negatives to me. That one policy alone, if that road were taken, the nation would be an incredibly different nation. We would have the money to rebuild the infrastructure and mass public transportation this nation so desperately needs. The Pentagon budget could be axed significantly and those savings alone would easily pay for universal, single payer health care; for free higher education for anyone who qualified for it (most of us who want it, like Europeans have), and other major projects that might move my country out of its increasingly 3rd world status. That Paul has a peace foundation does surprise me, but doesn't surprise me. Ron Paul was one of the few real humans to run for president in my lifetime. No wonder he was minimized, like Bernie, but from the GOP side.
+22 # Anonymot 2016-10-23 06:59
Both Pauls have their problems. I couldn't forgive Ron for not believing in evolution in the XXI Century, but the reality is that they have a number of very bright, strong positions re war, military spending, the Fed, etc. that far outshine their fellow politicians.
-2 # Montanan 2016-10-24 14:16
You're obviously not a woman or you wouldn't think so highly of either Paul.
+4 # wrknight 2016-10-24 18:22
Both Pauls are in the wrong party. They should be libertarians (i.e., the Ayn Rand party).
+10 # Interested Observer 2016-10-23 10:01
Dr. Paul indeed. The last time I saw his name was on an internet promotion "Crisis coming - Gold will not be enough" for a variety of fiscal and physical survivalist products. That is spelled: "S-o-l-d o-u-t". I also read his book End the Fed, and continue to be amazed at his nostalgia for untrammeled financial panics and bank runs, "caveat emptor" as regulation, and quasi-religious faith in that popular deity the "Invisible Hand of the Free Market". Describe how we separate the "Dr." from the elderly crank.
+20 # Henry 2016-10-22 18:31
Quoting guomashi:
Powerful and 100% true.
Who is going to start it?
Are you ready to die for it?

The fascist state of US cannot be trusted to respect constitutional guarantee of the right of citizens peacefully to assemble for redress of greivances.

Are YOU ready?
+37 # AshamedAmerican 2016-10-22 20:11
Those who support Clinton must be ready. Those who advocate Stein are trying to avoid it.
+29 # John Puma 2016-10-23 03:21
To Ashamed:

I too am ashamed, and have been increasingly so for five decades.

I'd suggest those voting for Stein are "not wait(ing) until the Inauguration to begin to build a new peace movement in America."
+16 # AshamedAmerican 2016-10-23 13:35
Thanks for the comment, Mr. Puma.

As far as building a new peace movement, there isn't much left in my area to start with. The peace community used to consist of older folks who are now gone. Much as I perceive most of the wise and good people on this list, the handful remaining are in their mid to late sixties. If I were still young, and still significantly involved, I would still be the only young person. A new entity has taken over. It sucks what money it can from those who are willing to give for peace. It does not protest war and it does not educate. It celebrates a non-existent peace, and aids the MSM in misinforming any whom are interested. I went to college late. I now work in a college and in a fast food place. I see very little interest in young people/students , and very little comprehension among the middle-aged/pro fessors. Nationally, in '03, we had hundreds of thousands in DC protesting the upcoming invasion of Iraq. We had no impact. Now we face a much more empowered police state. Above, jdd gives a good analysis and expresses the imperative of putting their "feet to the fire". He is right. But Majikman is also correct in that there is little hope in successfully doing that. He asks how do we propose to do that. I ask the same.
+10 # marigayl 2016-10-23 16:55
Not at all sure what you mean by "new entity." Also what precisely has it "taken over?" I'm old, too--enlightene d by the civil rights movement, activated by the Viet Nam war, supported by feminism. Those were special, nightmarish times, about which the only reason to feel nostalgic was our lively youth. But now haven't you heard of the Occupy movement; haven't you seen the demos against free trade, fossil fuel pipelines, police assassinations? The millenials have been screwed by low wages and the high cost of college, but don't tell me they're asleep. Great crowds of them are courageous, they know the score, and they have means of communication at their disposal that we could only dream of.
+7 # AshamedAmerican 2016-10-23 21:06
The new "peace" group arose as most of the older folks had passed on, moved to retirement villages or in with their children elsewhere or became unable to get out. It immediately became the spokes-entity for the local peace community. The media would go to it for a "balanced" view occasionally. And their events would be deemed newsworthy unlike any that anti-war protesters could dream of. It received the publicity so it receives the resources. It has also divided the remains of the peace community.

My understanding is that the Occupy movement has been successfully squashed. No, I do not know of the demonstrations against free trade. I do know, to a degree, of the Dakota events and the Black Lives Matter movement. But I do not get your point with this.

Yes, it has steadily gotten worse since about 1973. I figure you are a generation older than me. In a very general way, I would say that your generation was awake. And every generation of youth since has been asleep.

I read about the crowds of young Sanders supporters. I saw no hint of them. Those I see and those I know are mostly asleep. Most exceptions have an interest in, and some knowledge of, one or two issues. A very large percentage live in a fairy land and don't even know there is a score.

They certainly do have the means to communicate, but how many are much communicating about issues of importance? Potential for building a peace movement in the current climate seems extremely limited.
+11 # indian weaver 2016-10-23 06:26
It is a great song in any case. Fits with "Time Has Come Today" by the Chambers Bros. Turn up the volume. Start dancing.
+56 # wrknight 2016-10-22 19:22
"It is abundantly clear from our dark alliance with Saudi Arabia and our conduct in support of jihadists in Syria that our current leaders have learned nothing from Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya as we prepare to plunge head-long into the abyss of a world war."

With all due respect Dennis, I have to disagree. Our current "leaders" have learned a whole lot from all those previous wars. They have learned how they personally can benefit from the wars they drag us into. They have learned how to hold on to a cushy life style, getting re-elected year after year after year simply by pandering to those who profit from war without incurring any personal risk to themselves or their loved ones. For them, the cold war was the greatest invention ever conceived - to have all the fruits of war without the slightest inconvenience to themselves.

No, I don't believe our "leaders" are dumb enough to want a real, hot war; a cold war is so much better. The threat of war without the real war - or maybe just a nice, little war on someone else's turf - a proxy war - that's where the profit is greatest.
+55 # RMDC 2016-10-22 20:08
wrk -- you are right. So they are not stupid. They are criminal and pathological. What you say is much worse than simply being stupid.
+40 # Texas Aggie 2016-10-22 20:24
The problem comes when they miscalculate as they have inevitably done from the Korean conflict through to our present conflicts in just about everywhere. Then their cold war turns into a hot one, and we cannot always depend on the Russians to be the adults in the room.
+31 # Douglas Jack 2016-10-22 20:35
Texas Aggie Yes! See Loren Bliss below for psychopathic details, "Frankly I think Hillary is truly mad"
+19 # librarian1984 2016-10-22 20:59
Sorry, DJ. Meant to vote you up but missed.

Right on, TX Aggie. The goons are mean AND stupid. A bad combination for the rest of us.
+3 # wrknight 2016-10-24 17:01
No, lib. Being stupid limits one's ability to be mean. These goons are mean and clever (or, if you prefer, evil and clever) - and that is the worst combination.
+6 # RICHARDKANEpa 2016-10-22 23:59
Quoting wrknight:
our dark alliance with Saudi Arabia

The Saudi's are pushing or pulling the US around. so is Israel and and now Russia. Meanwhile ISIS and al Qaeda are pushing us toward bankruptcy and war with more moderate Muslims
+13 # indian weaver 2016-10-23 06:31
What do you mean "and now Russia". Russia, and to a lesser degree China, India and Brazil, still have enough clout to challenge the lies of Obama / the Pentagon / Congress people. All I can say is thank God for Putin and Lavrov. I'd support them in a heartbeat when Obama / Clinton create and cause a hot war. I'm afraid to say that this country needs to be destroyed in war, the White House and the Capitol building in smoldering ruins, to have any hope of this country once again being a respectable player on the world stage. We deserve the worst at this point and as I see it, the sooner the better for our Great Mother Earth and all life.
+3 # wrknight 2016-10-24 21:16
Armageddon is on it's way. Let's not hurry it along.
+3 # Patriot 2016-10-24 13:01
No, Richard Kane--our "leaders" are dong that themselves, pushed by their avarice for profit, power, control of the entire dying planet.
+7 # Juanbaltimore 2016-10-24 06:23
What has been learned by the ruling elite of this country is to not show the human costs of war to the American people. No showing of coffins coming home to Dover Air Force Base. No showing of the results of drone strikes on TV. The images from the Vietnam War were too powerful for Americans to resist it sinking into collective consciousness. Now we have drone strikes in multiple countries with no visual images seen by everyday people.
Wake up brothers and sisters. The consequences of what our government is doing will come home to roost. It won't be pretty.
-17 # ericlipps 2016-10-23 06:33
Quoting guomashi:
Powerful and 100% true.
Who is going to start it?
Are you ready to die for it?

The fascist state of US cannot be trusted to respect constitutional guarantee of the right of citizens peacefully to assemble for redress of greivances.

If the U.S. were a "fascist state," this website would not exist and you and I would be dead, in prison, in hiding or in exile.
+18 # librarian1984 2016-10-23 06:46
That is what makes rsn a beacon in the darkness, despite its too frequent shilling for Hill articles.

Fascism is the unified agenda of government (and therefore the military) with business and the media.

Make your case that this is not EXACTLY what we're seeing right now.

And BTW, wouldn't the fascists let venues like rsn operate precisely so they could monitor their opposition?
+5 # wrknight 2016-10-24 09:01
Well said, lib. That is exactly what fascism is. That was the basis of power for Benito Mussolini who was leader of the Fascist Party after which fascism was named. And that is exactly what we are looking at today.

Fascism in the U.S. may not have progressed to the state it ultimately reached in Italy, but it's on its way. 1984 is overdue, but we probably won't have to wait much longer.

PS One should watch the BBC/Masterpiece production of "The Last Enemy".
+17 # Majikman 2016-10-23 08:03
Ever hear of steam valves thigamajiggies? Sites like RSN are necessary to allow the likes of us to vent. If people are free to bitch and moan about conditions they are less likely to act out. Shut off the steam valve and the pressure builds until the system explodes. That's also why the PTB throw us a bone every once in a while to fool us into thinking we may be turning the corner into a progressive social system. Uninformed people are so easy to fool.
+22 # EternalTruth 2016-10-23 08:19
Isn't it interesting that the Hillary trolls have almost nothing to say about this? Her position is so indefensible, they have to just keep their mouths shut.
+6 # kkartha 2016-10-24 02:26
+118 # RMDC 2016-10-22 12:13
Thanks for this. Dennis Kucinich for president. In the Clinton Democratic Party, Kucinich as been all but driven out. He was once a leading voice for the left wing of the party. He was sought out by most news organizations when they wanted to hear what the true democratic party views were. Now he has been silenced, as the Obama/Clinton regime has moved the party to the right-wing and people like Debbie Wasserman-Shult z are its spokespersons.

Kuninich is right. In order for any no-fly zone to work, the US would first have to destroy all of Syria's air defense system, all of its military aircraft, and all of its radar. This is what Clinton led "no fly zone" did in Libya. By now everyone knows that "no fly zone" is just a cover term for all out invasion or war of aggression.

Clinton is frustrated that she has not been able to overthrow Assad with her proxy or mercenary forces of al Qaeda and ISIS, so she is going to escalate to all out invasion. Let's just hope people in the Pentagon have the courage to tell her flatly "no."

Russia really cannot stand by and allow the US to destroy Syria's air defense system. Russia will have to respond in some way. I know there will be extensive "talks" with Russia and the US will attempt to buy out Russia so that is abandons Syria, but I"m not sure Russia can be bought out now, with the double crosses in Ukraine and elsewhere.
+58 # librarian1984 2016-10-22 13:28
I don't think the Pentagon wants to tell her no. At least not Ash Carter.

The Joint Chiefs of Staff may be less enthusiastic.
+14 # lorenbliss 2016-10-22 19:48
@Lib1984: So very good to see you back on RSN. Was wondering about you, hoping you were not ill or otherwise indisposed.
+19 # librarian1984 2016-10-22 21:02
Thanks very much loren. I think I had two bad colds, one after another. I missed you guys but honestly it was good to be away from the trolls for a while.

I had two fever dreams about a post-apocalypti c Clinton world -- like Mad Max without the cool cars. Not fun.

Hope you're well.
+11 # lorenbliss 2016-10-22 21:42
Lib, you just gave me the coldest chill I've ever gotten via the Internet: assume you know of the Jungian hypothesis of dreams as prophecy.

Apart from that, am as well as can be expected thank you, though I too am recovering from a truly wretched cold.
+10 # librarian1984 2016-10-23 00:47
My dreams are never predictive, mainly an expression of anxiety.
-11 # ericlipps 2016-10-23 06:35
Quoting librarian1984:
Thanks very much loren. I think I had two bad colds, one after another. I missed you guys but honestly it was good to be away from the trolls for a while.

I had two fever dreams about a post-apocalyptic Clinton world -- like Mad Max without the cool cars. Not fun.

Hope you're well.

Try imagining Trumpworld.
+21 # librarian1984 2016-10-23 06:55
Eric, do you think we WANT Trump world? I fear it too. That's why I'm so angry with these two corrupt parties. Neither one of them is fit to be president, and I am afraid of what Trump will bring to this country.

But we differ in our determination of who is the lesser evil. Trump is a buffoon, a W without a D!ck, a man who will embolden the worst among us. We get that.

But Hillary is worse. She wants war and war and more war and she, being so eminently capable, will be much more difficult to control.

Trump will be a one-term president and not even his own party likes him, so he can be contained.

Hillary heads the Clinton machine and the DC crowd is afraid of the Clintons, and rightly so. They will do much more damage, especially in the relentless war that a Clinton administration promises.

But it's certain that if either one wins we cannot go back to business as usual and withdraw for four years. Either one promises disaster and we have to stay active to combat it.

But the number one thing that would calm Trump's supporters? Decent jobs.

When's the last time you heard HRC give a meaningful address on jobs? To her, full employment is called 'enlisting'.
+3 # wrknight 2016-10-25 07:39
You're right, lib. The war on terror, sponsored by the neoliberals, has morphed into the war for(profits)eve r. We enlist the jobless (volunteers) into our mercenary army to go and kill people in foreign lands which creates hostility towards Americans and spawns terrorists so that we can go and kill terrorists (and anyone else who happens to be at the wrong place at the wrong time).

Meanwhile, those "fuhrers" who dragged us into this never ending war sit back in their comfortable and safe environments (surrounded by armies of armed thugs) and ensure that neither they, their children nor anyone in their circle of friends ever gets in harm's way.

And while I detest Trump and everything he stands for, I fear him much less than I fear Hillary who is definitely a much more capable person. It's her capability that I fear the most.
+9 # Depressionborn 2016-10-23 19:51
hope so ericlipps 2016-10-23 06:35

Trump says he will reduce gov and stop the warmongers. maybe he can do it. We will know when the web goes down and Hillary is in charge that hope lost.
+3 # Vintor 2016-10-24 07:26
ericlipps, the problem that you're having is that it's your imagination that you are using. Hillary on the other hand is a prideful warmonger and corporate puppet. No imagination is required. It's her history and you would know that if you took your head out of her butt, turn off CNN and MSNBC and trying reading.
+5 # marigayl 2016-10-23 17:06
Has it ever occurred to you that Ash Carter and the Joint Chiefs of Staff may be the ones in charge? I believe JFK once thought he was boss.
+69 # Radscal 2016-10-22 18:24
Dennis was gerrymandered out. His Congressional District was "disappeared."

When he ran for the Democratic nomination, he was marginalized exactly like Sanders just was. I remember one debate where he was only given ONE question, and that was about his having said he saw a UFO once.

For perspective, Saint Ronnie saw UFOs twice, and intimated that he and Nancy might have been abducted by extraterrestria ls in one of those sightings.
+39 # RMDC 2016-10-22 20:09
Rads -- I remember all this very well. I was a strong Kucinich supporter then and now.
-4 # ericlipps 2016-10-23 06:36
Quoting RMDC:
Rads -- I remember all this very well. I was a strong Kucinich supporter then and now.

I voted for him in the '08 primaries and watched his campaign sink like a stone.
+2 # wrknight 2016-10-25 07:48
Good for you.
+14 # librarian1984 2016-10-22 21:04
Nancy's astrologer warned him not to tell!
+16 # LionMousePudding 2016-10-23 01:19
Hillary already said there are UFOs a year ago and she is going to open the archives. I was shocked that there seemed to be zero negative reaction at all. If Bernie had said it it would have been tinfoil space suit for him.
+3 # wrknight 2016-10-25 07:57
Oh, good. There's something else she can declare war on. It's truly manna from heaven for the defense-industr ial-government complex.

Just think. The war on terror limits our war making to this god-blessed but human forsaken earth. But a war on UFO's? WOW! We'll be able to export war all over the galaxy.

George Orwell, RIP. Your dream is about to come true at last.
+12 # John Puma 2016-10-23 03:23
Let's not forget the Reagan White House astrologer.
+30 # Texas Aggie 2016-10-22 20:28
If our vaunted air force cannot tell the difference between Syrian army forces and ISIS, then do you think that they'll be able to tell the difference between a Russian plane and a Syrian one? What happens the first time they shoot down a Russian jet, and then the second time?
+15 # John Puma 2016-10-23 03:31
The US vaunted air force can certainly tell the difference between Syrian army forces and ISIS. We publicly alleged to be fighting ISIS but in fact we are fighting the Syrian government to replace it (with what is not yet clear.)

The Russians have said they will retaliate for our next attack on Syrian troops. I presume they credit us with enough sense to not shoot down Russian planes. I do not give the US that credit with the "Queen of Chaos" as commander-in-chief.
ISBN 978-0989763769
-9 # ericlipps 2016-10-23 06:39
That "next attack" at come before the election, and almost certainly will come before Clinton (or Trump) is inaugurated, so blaming Hillary for it amounts to a knee-jerk response.
+30 # randrjwr 2016-10-22 21:25
Yes, Kucinich for President--if we survive to 2020!

The Dems did have some help in marginalizing Kucinich from the Reps who gerrymandered him out of his district and his seat. My dream ticket was Sanders/Kucinic h in either order. Now we are all in mortal danger, thanks to DWS's subversion of the democratic process in the (?)Democratic Party.
+3 # Patriot 2016-10-24 13:13
Well, well, well! Randrjwr, a fellow-traveler ! Years ago I wrote to both Kucinich and Sanders and begged them to campaign together, in any order, for the White House. Still have a copy of the letter, too. What a shame they didn't take us up on it!

Another "what-if" in American history, to go with, "What if Lincoln had lived to serve out his second term?" and, "What if JFK had lived to be elected for and complete a second term?"...and, "What if the DNC had been neutral, or at least even-handed, during this year's primaries, and Sanders had been--as he almost certainly should have been--named the Dem Party nominee for President?"
+3 # randrjwr 2016-10-25 18:32
Sigh. So many "what if"s. Another is "What if the 2000 election had been decided honestly and Gore, having been elected, would actually have been president?" It couldn't possibly have been any worse than Bush.

P.S. Nice to see another Kucinich fan; there don't seem to be many of us.
+86 # librarian1984 2016-10-22 13:20
Thank you so much, Mr. Kucinich, and prepare to be trolled!

Since the media has relinquished its role as government watchdogs (because Trump) it's great to have SOMEONE mention that Hillary seems unapologeticall y intent on war.

In a recent speech Clinton also said that ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS she will do as Commander in Chief is to make sure our nuclear arsenal is ready and prepared. Really? Because with Flint and schools and levees and jobs and police shootings and wealth inequality and childhood poverty and climbing infant mortality and declining life expectancy, one of the first things we really need to worry about is being ready to launch, yeah?

A no-fly zone promises direct conflict with Russia and the end of Syria .. but Obama and General Dunford are wrong because .. it worked so well in Iraq and Syria? She will not listen on these issues. She wants war and she's not even hiding it. I used to think Americans were just ill-informed but that's not it. They really just do not care.

Besides the fact we intend to kill lots and lots of people (and Clinton has admitted this means lots of civilian casualties), there's also the effect on America -- continued austerity, stress on our soldiers, lots of money for weapons manufacturers .. oh, there it is.

So all these Hillary supporters are really for arms manufacturers. Now it makes sense.

But why?
-34 # Jaax88 2016-10-22 19:46
Are you kidding 1984s? Can you back up your claims that Hillary "WANTS WAR?" Cite to me her quotes or writings that can be verified please.

"... we intend to kill lots and lots of people..." Please do not include me in your fear mongering and false "WE." I for one have no intention of killing anyone.
+33 # AshamedAmerican 2016-10-22 20:32
Clinton always wants war. She doesn't much try to hide it. She openly admits (her "public policy") that she wants a no-fly zone. And that can be counted on to be a prelude to regime change (her "private policy").

And we always kill lots of people. We routinely target infrastructure so that the survivors cannot rebuild, which leads to many more dead. By "we", I imagine that Librarian means our government. If you support the Obama's regime's foreign policy and that of Clinton, you are part of her "we". A vote for Clinton is a vote for the death of many innocent foreigners. Few things are so easily predictable.
+30 # librarian1984 2016-10-22 21:09
In the Wikileaks emails she says that a no-fly zone will result in many civilian casualties -- yet she still insists on it, despite the disastrous results of no-fly zones in Iraq and Libya. She has said she would consider launching a nuclear first strike. She pushed for the coup in Honduras. She pushed for toppling Qaddafi. She wants to go to war with Russia.

We expanded NATO to Russia's border and now we are running extensive war games there. We have said we intend to send Russians home 'in body bags'. Oh, and BTW, they are our ALLIES in Syria.

Why do you think Paul Wolfowitz and Henry Kissinger and multiple neocons support her?
-2 # Jaax88 2016-10-25 22:24
Give me some actual quotes 1984 and context, not she said and then put in your own rendition.
Give me some facts to back up your charges,
otherwise this is no better than stuff in the supermarket tabloids.
+18 # lfeuille 2016-10-22 22:35
She knows a no fly zone will make it harder, not easier to defeat ISIS. She want's it anyway. Connect the dots.
+24 # librarian1984 2016-10-23 06:06
'Please do not include me in your fear mongering and false "WE".'

Jaax, That is exactly the point. If you vote for Hillary, you ARE part of the "WE" who will be bombing civilians and Arabs. You are complicit because she makes no secret of her intentions.

Honestly, if you haven't figured out that this is one of Hillary's defining features that's a testament to your inability to acquire and analyze information, dude.

Why do you think so many of us are upset, because we don't like her pant suits? We are desperately trying to stop this precisely because she intends to be more warlike than Obama, even more than D!ck & W.

Ex SecDef Robert Gates made the talk show circuit in the summer when there were still twenty people in the primaries (an unprecedented move for the close-to-his-ve st Gates) to say that she was the most hawkish of ANY of the candidates.

In the third debate she DEFENDED her desire for a no-fly zone in Syria. She goads Putin relentlessly. This is what she is and what she wants.

If you vote for her you are saying you're okay with that. You cannot turn a blind eye and say you're not part of it. By voting for her you ARE part of it, whether you admit it or not. SHE has said, explicitly, WE will kill many civilians.

Maybe THAT is why her supporters are in denial. They, like you, don't want blood on their hands. But guess what? Hiding your head in the sand doesn't wash it away.

A vote for Hillary is a vote for war.
+3 # wrknight 2016-10-25 08:07
It's hard to know what Hillary truly WANTS. But what she INTENDS to do is clear from her own statements and from her past behavior as Secretary of State. She intends to continue the war to its bitter end - which could possibly be the end for all of us.
+23 # lorenbliss 2016-10-22 20:06
Frankly I think Hillary is truly mad -- insane -- with a combination of Goldwater Girl ambition (to be the first ever conqueror of Russia) and a fanatical vision of herself as the angel of death triggering the Christian Apocalypse ("better dead then Red" because this way -- so they believe -- all their sadistic god's chosen zealots go directly to heaven).

No, I am not exaggerating: read pages 272-277 of Jeff Sharlet's "The Family: the Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Governance" (Harper: 2008), which expose Hillary's clandestine collaboration with Sam Brownback (and therefore presumably also with all the other JesuNazi fanatics in the fundamentalist leadership cabal).

Were she not herself a secret believer in the Christian "End Times" dogma, she would never have been accepted by Brownback and his ilk.

Moreover, were the cause of her war-mongering merely her debt to the military-indust rial complex, she would want to perpetuate the profits generated by the new Cold War she and Obama have started. But instead -- her intent undeniable -- she wants thermonuclear Armageddon: that is, the end of all sentient life on this planet.

As I said, her warmongering proves she is insane: a homicidal maniac with her finger moving ever closer to the doomsday button.

And -- yes -- I am frankly terrified, many times more so than during the Cuban Missile Crisis: not for me, as I am old and chronically ill, but for all the world's children and young adults.
+31 # Texas Aggie 2016-10-22 20:34
For what it's worth, she still says that she has Bible studies with the women in the C St. Family.

The rest of her history shows her to be what was called a Cold War liberal, someone who sees the US as some sort of noble god that should be in control of the world because we are just so good and awesome. Scoop Jackson is the prototype of the group. They regard it as our obligation (not theirs) to go to the military aid of anyone who is being persecuted as long as it furthers our foreign policy objectives of control.
+28 # librarian1984 2016-10-22 21:16
And how about the new motto, "America is great because we are good"?

That phrasing would be right at home in a Nazi rally. Or the Democrat convention.

The arrogance. The inability to assess their own mistakes. The dishonesty. The blood lust. It is a horrific cocktail that will kill millions.

I agree with you, loren. She is insane. The ones I'm angriest with are the ones around her who know what she will bring yet still insist we all vote for her. Why?

It's not a mistake that Chomsky, Moore, Reich, even Sanders, don't bring up her foreign policy. It is indefensible, and anyone who recognizes it is wrong to vote for it, for American empire and more of the bloody neo-duopoly.

She is going to beat Trump or steal the election, so why can't they leave us alone? Plain, dirty fascist cruelty. A demand that we comply, smile and give cover to the election theft.
-17 # ericlipps 2016-10-23 06:45
Oh, stop moaning. Your hero lost fair and square--by his own admission. And Clinton won't destroy the world, no matter what you think (hope?) she'll do. Assuming, of course, she's elected.

And what if she ISN'T elected? You'll spend the next four years, at least, blaming her for everything Donald Trump does, because, you'll say, ****BERNIE**** would have easily have beaten Trump and led the world into a new era of unparalleled peace and prosperity.
+22 # librarian1984 2016-10-23 07:43
F^k you, eric. You dare to say I HOPE Hillary will destroy the world?

No one packs more misinformation into a post than you, so where to start?

Sanders' victory was STOLEN, not lost.

HRC doesn't need to win, she'll just steal the election.

Yes, Sanders would have beaten Trump easily -- and helped the Dems and progressives down ticket -- unlike Clinton, who is courting the GOP and will hurt Dems down ballot because she motivates the right and (literally) depresses the left.

Yes, we could have had an era of peace and prosperity. What is wrong with you that you sneer at that?
+4 # wrknight 2016-10-25 08:16
Quoting ericlipps:
Oh, stop moaning. Your hero lost fair and square--by his own admission. And Clinton won't destroy the world, no matter what you think (hope?) she'll do. Assuming, of course, she's elected.

And what if she ISN'T elected? You'll spend the next four years, at least, blaming her for everything Donald Trump does, because, you'll say, ****BERNIE**** would have easily have beaten Trump and led the world into a new era of unparalleled peace and prosperity.

So you think that being shunned by the DNC while Hillary is given every bit of monetary and publicity support constitutes fair and square? And being pooh-poohed by the media for more than a year while promoting Hillary at every opportunity is fair and square?

I'm sure you also believe that the high school football team, which was defeated by the pros, lost the game fair and square.

You have a strange sense of what's fair and square.
+22 # librarian1984 2016-10-23 07:04
PS If any of them would be honest about it, it would be refreshing. Can anyone come up with a plan on how to stop her going to war and bombing more people?

Instead of the relentless droning about how she's better than Trump, how about some strategizing about how we're going to prevent her from starting WW3?

As long as this parade of HRC apologists continues to evade any discussion of how we can thwart her military ambitions, they can bleat until the cows come home. (Mixed metaphor, Jaax. Deal with it.)

I am voting for the only candidate who is calling for peace, Dr. Jill Stein. Go Green!
+7 # Depressionborn 2016-10-23 19:57
ya, I got a plan.
Make it so whoever wants the rest of us to go to war gets to ride point.
+5 # AshamedAmerican 2016-10-23 21:20
Nice thought, but that is yet one more thing we cannot control.
+2 # Depressionborn 2016-10-24 03:38
Quoting AshamedAmerican:
Nice thought, but that is yet one more thing we cannot control.

why not?
+4 # Bryan 2016-10-25 08:38
'' Nice thought, but that is yet one more thing we cannot control.''

We have a volunteer army these days.
Convince the population not to volunteer.
+2 # Depressionborn 2016-10-25 18:24
yep, or take away the money. That worked once when Congress wanted to invade Canada.
+4 # EternalTruth 2016-10-24 16:16
"Can anyone come up with a plan on how to stop her going to war and bombing more people?"

It seems to me that if there's nobody to drop the bombs, then the bombs would stop falling. I don't know what efforts have been made in this direction in the past, but what about an effort to educate soldiers about the purpose and effect of US military action in an attempt to get them to quit en-mass or better yet, engage in satyagraha in efforts to shut down the machine? And there's always action against the arms manufacturers etc. But we need a lot of people willing to put their lives on the line in order to be effective. Once my kids are in college, I'll be there. In the meantime I'll be bitching in the internet and calling politicians.
+1 # Patriot 2016-10-24 23:28
Eternal Truth, education is long overdue. But what else you proposed is sabotage--and would result in charges of treason and the execution of the perpetuators. I cannot encourage anyone to commit sabotage or treason. I hope no one else will, either.
+4 # EternalTruth 2016-10-25 11:43
Apparently I was unclear. I'm talking about non-violent action. I'm talking about work stoppage. I'm talking about human chains around/across the roads and machines that produce and transport weapons and their parts. And yes, I'm talking about the willingness to be jailed and executed, but only for peaceful action which sheds light on the nature of our fascist masters. That is the level of commitment necessary to stop the the war machine. Until we place as much value on the lives of the children of our brothers and sisters in the Middle East, Africa and Latin America as we do on ourselves and our children, we cannot win this struggle.
+5 # wrknight 2016-10-25 08:37
Quoting EternalTruth:
"Can anyone come up with a plan on how to stop her going to war and bombing more people?"

Yes. Un-elect every member of Congress who supported the war powers and other acts giving the President unbridled authority to bomb the crap out of anyone he/she doesn't like. Insist that their replacements repeal those acts, cut the war budget and rein in the President as they were given the authority to do by the Constitution. Give them two years to accomplish that or they will join the ranks of the jobless.

Additionally, you can vote for Jill Stein.
+4 # EternalTruth 2016-10-25 13:44
I agree with everything you said, but how do we do that? How do we reach and convince the masses over the roar of the MSM?
+21 # lfeuille 2016-10-22 22:39
She reminds me of the horrible hymn "Onward Christian Soldiers".
She is "marching as to war with the cross of Jesus going on before" and marching our services members into war.
+1 # Depressionborn 2016-10-24 16:51
how about "mine eyes have seen the glory..."
+3 # wrknight 2016-10-25 08:26
Quoting lfeuille:
She reminds me of the horrible hymn "Onward Christian Soldiers".
She is "marching as to war with the cross of Jesus going on before" and marching our services members into war.

Almost, but not quite. "...marching as to war with the cross of 'democracy' going on before."

Don't forget, America is spreading the pseudo religion of democracy.
+18 # Majikman 2016-10-23 08:16
loren I agree. I watched her eyes during the last debate and there was something definitely amiss. Her head was turned toward Trump but her eyes were not focused on him, they had more of an opaque glaze. (I'm acutely aware of body language since I use it in training & communicating with dogs & horses.) Insane? Too much meds? Whatever--the girl ain't right.
+23 # AshamedAmerican 2016-10-22 20:52
"But why"? They are for their own comfort.
Upton Sinclair: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it". I revise it to say "It is difficult to get a person to understand something, when his/her comfort depends on his/her not understanding it". Therefore, HRC supporters must not allow themselves to understand the hideous agenda of their candidate, or much of what the US has been doing in the world-all of which would prevent any otherwise decent human from being comfortable.
+75 # Ted 2016-10-22 17:23
THANK YOU Dennis Kucinich!!!

And thank you RSN for choosing this piece!!!

Finally, honest, clear, forthright 'Truth to Power'

THIS is why we, mere citizens, must continue to voice our opinions and demands in any format available to us (such as RSN).

All is not lost.

In the words of Jill Stein; "It is in OUR hands".
+14 # Ted 2016-10-23 07:27
I sincerely hope that the independent media (you know, ACTUAL journalists) and young public office-seekers, and yes even the "Our Revolution" folks are noticing the overwhelmingly strong positive reaction and response this one short writing is getting from the politically active and voting public on this site alone.

Despite the usual onslaught of "thumbs-down" votes intended to minimize our stands on progressive issues that the status-quo consistantly bombards our little chat board with, as of this writing I am noticing for the first time "Thumbs-UP" counts in the triple digits.

HONEST, STRAIGHTFORWARD , "TRUTH-TO-POWER " is what America demands now.

Our perserverance in demanding a reversal away from the festering political corruption that is getting dangerously close to killing us all, not to mention the 100s of thousands of lives it has already devastated, is beginning to pay off, although we still have the hardest, ugliest part of the fight ahead of us.

Listen up, sleazebags, WE, THE PEOPLE, are done with your crap and will continue to build our resistance until your selfish, unethical, inhumane, UNAMERICAN, and murderous tendencies are reduced to the non-tolerated, prosecuted, dispised, and socially shunned activities cease, so that even the mere suspicion of your attempts to fulfill personal greed at the expense of the public at large will expose you to the treatment that you deserve as the social pariahs that you are.
+69 # Femihumanist 2016-10-22 17:29
Dennis Kucinich for Secretary of State!!
+18 # AshamedAmerican 2016-10-22 20:34
That is nearly as pleasant of a fantasy as Stein being President.
+45 # dipierro4 2016-10-22 17:52
He is right.

And he's a good public speaker, too. And vastly underappreciate d.

He's a paradigm victim of one of the last prejudices to make it onto the political map: Short people. Six inches taller, and he might be the Prez today. Damn shame is isn't.
+17 # Majikman 2016-10-22 19:55
He was my 1st choice with John Edwards 2nd. I reluctantly voted for BHO, alas.
+5 # Anonymot 2016-10-23 03:35
But Hillary is a shrimp. Huma said she was surprised by how short she was. Anybody know her height?
+10 # librarian1984 2016-10-23 06:28
Just looked it up. She's 5'5".

Interesting. Like Napoleon, another self-conscious short person who wants to rule the world? Or is she doing this to show up Bill, or make her conservative (deceased) father proud, or ???

I think the scariest place on the planet must be the inside of Hillary's head.
-6 # ericlipps 2016-10-23 06:48
Quoting librarian1984:
Just looked it up. She's 5'5".

Interesting. Like Napoleon, another self-conscious short person who wants to rule the world?

Cheer up. U.S. history shows that the taller candidate almost always wins the presidential election. Hello, President Trump. BUT AT LEAST HE'S NOT HILLARY!
+5 # librarian1984 2016-10-23 07:46
Yes, eric! NOW you've got it.
+2 # AshamedAmerican 2016-10-23 21:22
How tall is Stein?
+1 # Patriot 2016-10-24 13:56
Physically, as well as ethically, intellectually, taller than Hillary Clinton!
+49 # Anonymot 2016-10-22 18:02
Glad to hear it from someone with a greater authority than those of us who have said it repeatedly over the last 6/8 years.

At the same time, I don't think Hillary's position emenates from her brain. I doubt that she grasps anything of substance on foreign affairs. Her domain is vote-getting and she's excellent at it especially with a Trump as her opponent or someone a bit naive and honest like Sanders.

I'm reading a most astounding book, THE DEVIL'S CHESSBOARD by David Talbot about how the OSS was converted to the CIA by the neocon Allen Dulles. They were very close to the Nazis during WW II and right on into the '50s and their mindset continues to rule DC.

Their goal was Russia and Joe McCarthy was their political ideal. I'm convinced that has continued and coagulated into what Bill Clinton designated as the New World Order which he sees as America ruling the world literally. It was Bush Sr who installed the group we know as Deep State in the Oval Office and they have controlled foreign policy ever since.

The Clintons and Obama have been given leeway to provide lip service on domestic matters, but I don't believe either of them know anything beyond what they are primed to say by their Deep State handlers.

The Deep State people are ruthless, shallow and dumb. They are the moneyed elite who have as little interest in the public & domestic policy as the Clintons have on foreign policy.

They are slippery, slick, killers, and heading for War with glee.
+44 # Douglas Jack 2016-10-22 18:10
Thank you Dennis for your many decades of public service & personal integrity. I know, you know much more & could have shared a full length article on this but chose to put only 2 cards on the table, face-up. Will it be War or Peace?

I hope readers also know that; Peace & indeed a liveable biosphere on earth involves much more than each of us placing an X for Dr. Jill Stein. We need to align personally, our every: opportunity, moment, dollar, resources, talent, goods & services towards local intimate economy which includes & welcomes everyone. We need to stop buying whatever we don't absolutely need from the trillionaire oligarch multinational cabal which Hillary serves nor working for it by preparing other livelihood as we can. Hillary represents some very despondent, schizophrenic sick oligarchs, who are pushing for nuclear war. Every person who realigns with love & life can stop their march to war. We have to become the change we want to see in the world & as such stop feeding the beast which oppresses us.
+26 # Douglas Jack 2016-10-22 18:42
Important western corralling which everyone should be aware of:
Real Purpose Behind the "Liberation" of Mosul? Robert Fisk 18Oct’16 "Information Clearing House" - "The Independent" Corralling ISIS. When Mosul falls, Isis will flee to the safety of Syria. But what then? The entire Isis caliphate army will be directed against the Assad government & allies – a scenario which will cause satisfaction in Tel Aviv & Washington.
+11 # economagic 2016-10-22 20:25
Glad to see you back, Douglas Jack. The trolls are in abeyance for the moment, but all the other problems are still here. I've been meaning to contact you, and should have some slack this week.
+8 # Douglas Jack 2016-10-23 09:36
economagic, Great to have contact with you. We can email & phone, when you know your timing. Our indigene community team is laying the basis for what will be powerful fund raising tools for communities such as we are developing & for RSN & other media, independent of oligarch trickle-down. Its time now to change the 'money' (Greek 'mnemosis' = 'memory') paradigm as quickly as possible in this human-sphere about to explode.
+43 # MarkGonzalez 2016-10-22 18:12
Thanks so much for the courage of this article.
+35 # dotlady 2016-10-22 18:33
A note about "no-fly zone": I keep hearing people espousing the idea as some kind of logical solution. When you ask if they know what it entails, they have no clear idea.
This article spells it out. Why don't more people understand this?
+15 # Texas Aggie 2016-10-22 20:37
Because half the population is below average in intelligence, and the other half doesn't bother to use the brains that god gave a goose.
+37 # Inspired Citizen 2016-10-22 18:34
A peace movement will be too little, too late. Clinton intends to start a war with Russia. There is deep state, Cold War "chatter" with the militarists of the neoliberal establishment.

I have been saying since the DNC, HRC is more dangerous than Trump overall. I'll take inexperience over intention to start WWIII any day.
+32 # dipierro4 2016-10-22 18:44
...HRC is more dangerous than Trump overall. I'll take inexperience over intention to start WWIII any day...

But every time The Donald has an opportunity to show us his Better Self, he not only fails, but does the opposite. And although he sounded half like Sanders a few months ago, he now increasingly speaks like a representative of the pure Republican Right. Which has implications for our relations vis-a-vis Russia, Honduras, etc. Worse, we really don't know who his advisors are in regard to this stuff.

I will vote 3d party, with no hard feelings toward fellow progressives who choose differently.

(For every slot on the ballot aside from Prez, I'll vote Dem.)
+16 # librarian1984 2016-10-22 21:34
Quoting dipierro4:
(For every slot on the ballot aside from Prez, I'll vote Dem.)

I think you can do better than that :-D

Vote Green, Working Families and progressive whenever possible.

My advice, worth absolutely nothing, is to vote against incumbents unless you can think of one specific good thing they've done.
+9 # Anonymot 2016-10-23 03:43
Problem! Hillary is clearly going to beat Trump. If she has a fully complying Congress there's nothing to slow down her charge to war. If she has to deal with a Republican majority in the House or Senate things won't be so smooth and quick.

Although, granted, that certainly didn't stop the Hillary/Obama wars.
+11 # librarian1984 2016-10-23 06:33
I have been thinking about this as well. If Trump gets in there we definitely need a Democrat Senate, but if Hillary 'wins' she would do just fine with a GOP Senate because she is a DINO or a Dem Senate because they're scared of her and will comply.

So it makes sense to vote for the most progressive Congress possible for either one of them, to impede either one. And if by some miracle Stein is elected, a progressive Congress also makes sense, so there is not much strategy required.

A Republican Congress would hamper Sanders but not Clinton. They would go after her but many things she wants will go through because their interests coincide.

Also we are probably stuck with a GOP House, which is a drag, but they will impeach her, so it's not all bad.

Does that seem right? Or, knowing she's the likely winner, should we (gulp) vote for a GOP Senate?

What a mindf^ck this all is.
+13 # Anonymot 2016-10-23 06:51
When all's said and done, your last sentence is the definitive one.
+3 # Bryan 2016-10-25 08:43
Trump is a egomaniac.

Hilary is a sociopath.

Which one is more dangerous to the US and the world.
-8 # ericlipps 2016-10-23 06:50
...HRC is more dangerous than Trump overall. I'll take inexperience over intention to start WWIII any day...

But every time The Donald has an opportunity to show us his Better Self, he not only fails, but does the opposite.
On the contrary. That IS his "Better Self."

Be afraid. Be very afraid.
+29 # 2016-10-22 19:01
Who needs to restore the G,W. Bush/Chaney regime when we have HRC to do the job?
+31 # diamondmarge7 2016-10-22 19:08
Dear Librarian 1984,
You end your excellent post w/"Why?" I think I have an answer: It is because she/they is/are deeply hypnotized by the patriarchal mindset. They see everything as a dichotomy; an either-or, enemiy-friend. IMO that is why we must work for PEACE, for a return to matriarchal thinking. In Michael Moore's excellent film, "Where to Invade Next," he shows the great successes of countries that have elevated their societal conversation to feature the wisdom of women. Iceland booted out shyster bankers, jailed them, and elected a woman president. Moore interviewed brilliant, competent women who have an important and honored sayso in their country. Ditto Tunisia.
The problem in the US of A is that what we have elevated is "our troops," our=what Mark Twain called our only "natural criminal class,' Congress w/its millionaires and domination by corrupt officials like McConnell, Ryan, DW Shultz, McCain, Furthermore, we've elevated MONEY as our god, along w/the BIG FAT LIE of our exceptionalism -which means everyone else is lesser...more dichotomous, patriarchal lies.
As I've written before, I've joined CODEPINK and am donating like crazy to groups that are AGAINST WAR. Dennis Kucinich speaks for me, not HRC nor the Democratic Party. Do y'all know of the principled stand Kucinich took as Mayor of Cleveland-in defending against water privatization? He's the real deal.
+10 # Douglas Jack 2016-10-22 19:49
diamondmarge7 Yes restoration of women governance! Domestic 'economy' (Greek 'oikos' = 'home' + 'namein = 'care-&-nurture ') & essential-servi ce functions can be recognized, through accounting for all contributions, including women fully in all professions.
Balanced matriarch / patriarch 'indigenous' (Latin 'self-generatin g') cultures organize intergeneration al-interdiscipl inary Multihome-Dwell ing-Complexes as economic units. 70% of us live in multihomes, yet because of violent colonial invasion, have lost memory of how to collaborate. Corporate right & Cooperative left don't recognize contributions which all make.

Indigenous peoples account for Domestic, Industrial & Commercial contributions through the string-shell used within Production-Soci ety/Guilds on every continent & island of the world.

'If Women Counted' book by Marilyn Waring & the film Who's Counting? Marilyn Waring on Sex, Lies and Global Economics by Terre Nash - NFB (National Film Board of Canada) on Marilyn's life & work?
Marilyn's thesis is that human power flows from accounting recognition systems.

Indigenous collective economies integrate left & right wings, enabling collaboration with limited resources for everyone to gain ownership within our multihomes & businesses. Multihomes average 32 units with 100 people in 1 - 30 million $ economies. Strength is investing where we already are.
+10 # lorenbliss 2016-10-22 21:13
@diamondmarge7: Hear, hear.

Were I a believer in alien visitation, which I most assuredly am not, I would have to regard the sudden imposition of patriarchy (via talking snakes, "divinely" inscribed tablets, burning bushes, fiery wheels, etc. ad nauseam) as the intergalactic equivalent of the smallpox-infest ed blankets with which European Christians began the destruction of the American First Nations. In either case, the result is deadly: in the latter to the indigenous cultures of the American continents, in the former -- unless we are saved by some genuine miracle -- to all sentient life on this planet.

(If perhaps the UFO-philes are correct in their assumptions, then it follows logically the creatures who infected us with the toxins of patriarchy are some species of super-cockroach , since only roaches can survive in the thermonuclear wasteland the suicidal madness of patriarchy now threatens to make of our Mother Earth.)

All of which, whether one rejects or accepts the notion of extraterrestria l intervention, raises the most vital question of this entire election (and perhaps of all human history): who -- or what -- does Hillary Clinton truly serve?

And no, I am not being the least bit facetious.
+16 # librarian1984 2016-10-22 21:46
Diamond, you raise a lot of good points. The love of power and money, the loss of a desire for peace, the craven greed of our representatives . I would add a loss of the belief in a social contract. A dog eat dog, might makes right, greed is good mentality.

I loved that movie too, though it was more than a little heartbreaking. Maybe we, the women, should stage a protest for peace against Clinton. The Icelandic women's strike was inspirational. Maybe we could Lysistrata Bill :-)

I am frustrated by our leaders' lack of vision. This country could be so great, this world could be so much better. But the parasitic inbred oligarchs have decided war is profitable and sustainability is overhyped, and their goons are happy to go along. The CIA has killed many leftist leaders, in America and abroad, so that those who desire peace are without hope or leadership. Kucinich is a good, brave man.

+24 # djnova50 2016-10-22 19:56
I voted for Dennis Kucinich during the 2008 primary. In 2016, we have another peace candidate who is a member of a party that promotes peace and human rights. Medea Benjamin, one of the co-founders of Code Pink has endorsed Jill Stein. It makes sense. For anybody who does not know of Code Pink, this is where you can learn about the organization:
+28 # lorenbliss 2016-10-22 20:16
We should all thank Marc Ash for the bold defiance of the Hillaryites it required to publish Mr. Kucinich's breakthrough essay. Perhaps RSN is at last returning to its former self...
+13 # Ted 2016-10-23 09:44
I absolutely agree.

Unapologetic, straightforward "Truth-to-Power " writing such as this piece from Kucinich is ESSENTIAL to combat the "pay-as-you-go" for-profit media that is devastating our culture, our society, and our (worldwide) lives.

Thank You Marc for your bravery and integrity in presenting this powerful piece of truth.
+4 # Citizen Mike 2016-10-22 20:36
In my opinion it is in our best interest to get the hell out of this area of the world and not take part in its endless factional wars. If we leave Isis alone, then Isis will have no reason to take a position of enmity against us and will confine itself to fighting in its own part of the world. The Arab culture seems to involve splitting into myriad factions that wage endless war against each other. They will continue to do slaughter each other no matter what we do. Why is it in our interest to take sides? Beats me. But if they are free to exhaust themselves killing each other they will have neither reason nor energy to spare to attack the US. We do not need to make more enemies for ourselves.
+17 # Douglas Jack 2016-10-22 20:57
Citizen Mike, There is little factionalism in Syria. Assad wins elections by huge margins. This is about western oligarch financed foreign mercenaries feeding Zionism's Oded-Yinon-Plan for a greater Israel (aka US daughters Project-for-a-N ew-American-Cen tury & New World Order efforts to destabilize all Islamic countries towards a Greater Israel.
General Westley Clarke describing when he was informed of the US role in OYP.
OYP Introduction by Michel Chossudovsky & its Mossad, Hasbara, AIPAC
War Is Realizing the Israelizing of the World, Dan Sanchez, 22Dec’15
West's Covert Origins - creation of ISIS. Storm Clouds Gathering Video Link
Netanyahu Was on Verge of Attacking Iran 3 Times 2010-12 By Juan Cole
Israeli Colonel Leading ISIL Terrorist Captured in Iraq, 22Oct'15. Yusi Oulen Shahak, ranked colonel in Golani Brigade of the Zionist regime army
US Army Special Operations Forces Unconventional Warfare
+20 # AshamedAmerican 2016-10-22 20:59
Which wars in the Middle East in recent generations were not encouraged, if not begun, by the US and/or Israel?
+15 # futhark 2016-10-22 21:53
This is exactly what Ron Paul has been saying for several years. Here is a column on the subject he wrote over a year ago:
+6 # Texas Aggie 2016-10-22 20:42
Mr. Sanders asked which of the two likely successful presidential candidates is more likely to be influenced by progressives. It isn't Drumpf, but in order to influence a hard head like HRC, we need to start putting on the pressure on right now.
+15 # Anonymot 2016-10-23 08:57
Uh, yes, like a fireman with no water in the hose. Exactly what "pressure" do we have. I find no leverage that affects Hillary except $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$!Starti ng at 7-figures. If I had an extra 2-figures I'd give it to RSN or Jill.
+19 # futhark 2016-10-22 21:49
Hillary Clinton has openly declared her unconditional support for the state of Israel. What many people sympathetic to the continuance of Israel as an independent nation do not realize is that Zionist ambitions are to extend its territorial borders far beyond the current ones.

Take a look at the Zionist vision of a "Greater Israel":
+8 # ericlipps 2016-10-23 06:55
Quoting futhark:
Hillary Clinton has openly declared her unconditional support for the state of Israel. What many people sympathetic to the continuance of Israel as an independent nation do not realize is that Zionist ambitions are to extend its territorial borders far beyond the current ones.

Take a look at the Zionist vision of a "Greater Israel":

No U.S. presidential candidate who wants to actually get elected can afford to get elected.

And no, this is not because of the (largely imaginary) power of Jews in this country. The Israel lobby derives most of its power not from Jews but rather from evangelical Christians who support Israel for reasons of end-times prophecy. there are a lot more of them here than there are Jews in the whole world, and they have plenty of clout within the political and military establishments.
+3 # Bryan 2016-10-25 09:03
'' The Israel lobby derives most of its power not from Jews but rather from evangelical Christians who support Israel for reasons of end-times prophecy. there are a lot more of them here than there are Jews in the whole world, and they have plenty of clout within the political and military establishments.''>>>>

Actually you are wrong. Evanglicals and ther religious groups,churchs, TV God Merchants (con artist) and such cannot contribute $$ to political groups without losing their tax deferred status.
All the religious Israel fanatics can do is use their vote which they do mainly in state elections and elections to US congress.
And the actual number of doomsday and Israel centric evangs is very overestimated and concentrated mainly in Texas and the very lower southern states.

It is still the $$$ from the Uuber Jewish zionist that rules foreign policy in Washington.

Any money raise by evangs such as the Pat Roberson group is 'donated to Israel to fund their settlements'--- not to politicians.
+17 # lamancha 2016-10-22 21:55
OMG - if only Dennis had more clout with Democrats - perhaps aligned with Sanders or Stein to foment a New America. We're a doorstep away from Armageddon with a Clinton presidency. Her no fly zone policy is the final straw. Is there any way out of the cataclysm?
+22 # Old Uncle Dave 2016-10-22 22:06
A Presidential candidate has announced she wants to commit a war crime. Why didn't that make headlines?
+23 # davehaze 2016-10-22 22:34
No wonder the Democratic party kicked Kucinich out, lead by Obama himself. He speaks truth to power, something they cannot abide.
+12 # elkingo 2016-10-22 23:11
With either of the two morons in the White House, we are headed toward Armageddon, unless some vast populist force appears. Think consciousness change from capitalism.
+18 # Activista 2016-10-22 23:18
Great statement/thoug ht by Kucinich -
good record on foreign policy - peace has to be our priority.
-3 # jzacksmd 2016-10-22 23:21
The decision of whether or not to create a "no fly zone" is not a binary one...yes or no. There are potent reasons not to do so and some equally compelling reasons for it. There are innocent persons being killed or maimed while a decision is pending. And the world is aware of those perishing. Which means the world should respond. Not the US as "savior", but the world as a community. And the UN, under its new leadership, is the one world body with a structure in place for the necessary dialogue to create the humanity plan to stop the fighting and bring in real help. Will they have the will and support to do it? Although one should not hold ones breath counting on the UN, one can hope and encourage a focus on the humanitary objective at stake.
+12 # librarian1984 2016-10-23 07:12
Yes, we're increasingly at the point where we need to count on the international community to stop this madness, and new revelations that Hillary ordered spying at the UN (going so far as to acquire finger and retina prints!) may motivate the UN.

But I recently watched a video of an ex-Clinton insider predicting that Clinton will appoint Bill UN ambassador and then they will strongarm that body to make him secretary general -- a truly frightening thought.
+11 # Majikman 2016-10-23 08:27
If a no fly zone is declared over Syria, it should be the Russians to do it. They were the ones invited by the Syrian gov't to assist as allies, not the infernal meddling USians.
+17 # janie1893 2016-10-23 00:01
Lets see---sleeping bag in good condition, extra set of undies, warm mitts, watch cap. down jacket, rain gear, ground sheet, okay. I'm ready for a sit-in. Tell me when and where. I am ready to do about anything for world peace.

+10 # librarian1984 2016-10-23 07:17
:-D I am with you. But do we go to stop war or the TPP or the Dakota pipeline or ...

I think many of us are going to become quite familiar with the DC mall in the next four years. Maybe I'll see you there!

PEACE IN OUR TIME. What a wonderful thought.
+12 # LionMousePudding 2016-10-23 01:36
THANK YOU DENNIS!!! All the Progressives (and I refuse to decide what another person is) who are prostrating themselves to beg us to vote for Hillary...

You would be a LOT MORE CONVINCING if you addressed the international issues!

That's the thing. Our, my heroes are basically lying to us, unless they are lying to themselves. They think we will forget why we are against Hillary if they do not mention it.

I want to hear a Progressive who can ANSWER to Kucinich, explain why, and I mean this quite seriously, explain why she is still the LOTE.

I RESPECT these people like Moore and.. Bernie! But is it really necessary for them to ignore reality and try to trick us?

Bernie!! If you HONESTLY think Hillary, with international baggage (understatement of the decade) is better than Trump, with national Hitler-type baggage, TELL ME! Trust me to make the same connection! We believe in the same things. Moore even more, sorry about the pun ;). Explain it. Please!!!

There are, despite the black and white, hatred filled war in these pages, MANY people on the fence. So for God's sake the people we trust the rest of the time have to trust us and be honest.

Dennis I MISS YOU!!!!
+11 # LionMousePudding 2016-10-23 03:19
Who is down voting my request that someone like Moore or Bernie talk to Bernie Progressives honestly??

I didn't say they would or would not succeed. I just said it's dishonest to pretend there isn't a problem.

Usually I can figure out what contingent hates what I write.

But can anyone here defend a down vote on that?

Honest question.
+6 # LionMousePudding 2016-10-23 01:43
..and a shout out to Ron Paul too, despite his awful son; we all watched the Republicans shove him around and out of the race just like the Dems just did Bernie. I respect much of his beliefs greatly

Question, totally OT while I am thinking of the Pauls, does Ron support the slavery of women that Rand, in his extremely NOT libertarian way, does in his support for misogynistic, cruel, and patronizing laws meant to wipe out access to women's health care in this country? Because I'm thinking he doesn't support that crap.

I was kinda ready for a Kucinich-Paul ticket at one point. Bipartisanship in anti war sentiment is easy. All we had to do was put our anti war Dems with their anti war Repubs and let the two of them figure the rest out. I bet they would have done that very well!
-4 # ericlipps 2016-10-23 06:57
And gotten plowed under at the polls.
+11 # librarian1984 2016-10-23 07:26
You are always so concerned about winning, as if that is THE most important thing. But our votes can be used to protest as well and, more importantly, we can vote FOR something rather than, yet again, voting AGAINST something.

There is no better time to vote third party. BOTH major party candidates are despicable and the ruling elite (aka inbred oligarchs) have put SO MUCH money into this election .. wouldn't it be a treat to flush their blood money away for them?

To stand up to them and say, "I see you. I refute your ideology. I renounce your thirst for war and division."

If everyone who says they support the Green Party agenda would just VOTE for Stein, we could win. TPTB are counting on our fear, on our ignorance, on our complicity.

I would so dearly love to surprise them.
-8 # carytucker 2016-10-23 10:18
Quoting librarian1984:
You are always so concerned about winning, as if that is THE most important thing. But our votes can be used to protest as well and, more importantly, we can vote FOR something rather than, yet again, voting AGAINST something.

There is no better time to vote third party. BOTH major party candidates are despicable and the ruling elite (aka inbred oligarchs) have put SO MUCH money into this election .. wouldn't it be a treat to flush their blood money away for them?

To stand up to them and say, "I see you. I refute your ideology. I renounce your thirst for war and division."

If everyone who says they support the Green Party agenda would just VOTE for Stein, we could win. TPTB are counting on our fear, on our ignorance, on our complicity.

I would so dearly love to surprise them.

Winning is not sufficient, but it is necessary. If everyone who says they support the Green Party agenda votes for Dr Stein, she'll get her 2%. So what's your complaint?
+8 # indian weaver 2016-10-23 06:36
I'm 68 and grew up in Elkhart, IN, just east of Cleveland, OH where Kucinich was mayor when we were both young(er). In fact my brother was in the same hospital and born within days of Dennis with him - in Fall 1946, although I didn't figure that out until some years ago when I communicated with Kucinich about his birth details. I was born in that same hospital in 1948. For years, since the 60s, I've supported Kucinich and corresponded with him. I knew he would be minimized and driven out of the Senate because he is way too good of a person, like Bernie, for the establishment to allow him any power. He and Bernie, and to some degree Trump, are mortal threats to the war criminals who are represented by Obama, i.e., most of our government now (98% of it anyhow - you know what I mean). I am hopeless about Washington, DC ever been an acceptable player on the world stage. Now, I wait for the bombs to start falling on Washington, DC. I wrote a long letter to Putin and Lavrov about 2 years ago and copied Obama and Kerry on it, stating the support I think he has in America, and listed Obama's nearly infinite lies about what he has done and is doing, and how he is a 100% pathological lying coward. I provided a bibligraphy in my letter of some 75 articles describing Obama's flagrant lies regarding just about everything Obama and Kerry have said and done internationally . I doubt the letters ever even got to Russia, let alone Putin and Lavrov's offices.
+7 # Anonymot 2016-10-23 09:22
Wrong. I was having coffee one morning with Sergei and he said to me, "I got this crazy letter from___. Is he a friend of yours? Of course I said yes. "Smart guy," was his reply.

Then he coughed. He has a smoker's hack.

Only Chinese are Hillary hackers. She blows more smoke than a thousand Luckies..

He's a funny guy. Mentioned that his English isn't quite perfect. "I thought Hillary was getting her hair bobbed. I didn't know it was her whole head." Then I told him about the doggie in the window of my car - head only bobs on left turns. Lavrov laughs a lot.
+4 # Majikman 2016-10-23 16:25
+9 # Radscal 2016-10-23 16:03
Dennis was in the House, not the Senate. That's how he got gerrymandered out of Congress. One of the few honest and honorable Congress Critters we had, and he was disappeared for exactly that.
+3 # AshamedAmerican 2016-10-23 21:41
...yeah, and indian weaver, your town in Indiana is east of Cleveland?
+3 # joejoe 2016-10-23 21:38
This website censors you - despite what it says above. I noted that Marc (person who operates the blog) tends to post pro Hillary material and almost never discusses Jill Stein. The slant is definitely biased. On occasion I would post something like "Never Hillary and Never Trump." with a explanation as to why. I would also ask that people not donate to Marc as he is biased and probably gets donations from the DNC in any case. I think the worst word I used was "crap." I did not insult anyone except Marc for the sites clear Bias. All my posts were removed. I never got into any heated exchange with anyone on this site. My handle was jomo1. I call this censorship. I did not post often, no trolling at all. I though you should know. I suspect this will be pulled shortly as well.
-3 # Activista 2016-10-24 00:00
Stop this spam - joejoe ... jomo1
+5 # Radscal 2016-10-24 12:54
I generally abhor spamming, but when Billy Bob observed a sudden influx of trolls posting the most vile things, and duplicitously using screen names meant to make us believe they were coming from long-time RSN community members, I appreciated that he posted his comment on multiple threads to reach the maximum number of us.

Same with this. Some others have noticed covert censorship, and we who contribute to RSN deserve to know it.

So, my repeated reply:

I read and responded to a jomo comment yesterday, and got a message box saying the comment had been deleted. When I reloaded the page, it was indeed gone.

Unlike normal deletions, it was not replaced with the "Comment Removed by Administrator" box which normally appears even when the original poster deletes a comment.

So yeah. A covert censorship has arisen.
+5 # joejoe 2016-10-24 13:23
Thanks again - everyone should know what is going on here (even LionMousePuddin g) and that is why I posted it on numerous threads. Not a troll and not a spammer.
+6 # Patriot 2016-10-24 14:19
Others comments also have disappeared, including some of mine. I've asked repeatedly what happened to them--they were interleaved with comments from another reader--but received no response.
In fact, even our questions about what had happened disappeared--a total, I think, of six comments--none of which even concerned politics.

I closed this page, then decided I wanted to reread a comment someone else had made, and discovered that the re-opened page had several up/down comments still open for me to vote on, although the last thing I did before closing the page was to confirm that I had voted on all comments.

S-o-m-e-t-h-i-n-g-'s certainly amiss, but whether these are technical (computer) glitches or deliberate tinkering, none of us can state with certainty. But no one at RSN is addressing them, are they?
+6 # Radscal 2016-10-24 16:57
Yes, I remember you noting this earlier.

Not "kosher," Mr. Ash.
-5 # LionMousePudding 2016-10-24 00:49
Just *cough cough* choking on troll smell. Cleaning up behind him as best I can:

How dare you tell people not to fund this site! If these articles are worth nothing to you then get the heck out and never read them again. Certainly don't comment.

You have a sense of entitlement which says you may use a service for free and then cause it damage because there are some articles you don't like and others you don't see. It is disgusting.

Marc Ash owes you NOTHING. He does not owe you the articles you want. He puts out this incredible news site that I guarantee you are happily reading about other topics but hey, you deserve those for free because the rest of the articles aren't exactly what you want.

You disgust me. Telling people not to donate to something so important.

Who SHOULD pay? Or is your actual goal to make RSN disappear because it wasn't perfect?

You don't deserve this. I hope I never see your name again.
+4 # kkartha 2016-10-24 12:00
Few years back, I had a dream... Someday, Dennis Kucinich will get the DNC Nomination to represent the party for the presidential race to the WH.. Unfortunately, the corrupt DNC Right Wing "Establishment" sidelined Kucinich.. This election season made me abandon my affiliation to the party [DNC] as well..
+3 # Ojai Bill 2016-10-24 18:21
A new widespread peace movement in the US is desperately, urgently needed. Great to see more voices raising to express the need, before it is too late. Eugene McCarthy stepped forward during the Vietnamese disaster, who will carry the lead banner to counter the neocons now in lead government and media positions this time, hopefully before a major outbreak is initiated against Russia, other forces standing in the way of a unipolar dominated world, or misguided regime change targets. Hillary's hawkish leanings are well known, a strong peace movement needed now before any further provocation and risk of further war. Right on, Kucinich!
+1 # Patriot 2016-10-24 23:33 we are...all wondering who (ELSE) will start a peace movement.

But not one of us is saying, "I will...."

Guomashi, you have our answer to your questions, which opened this thread....
+3 # librarian1984 2016-10-25 10:16
Well janie1893 has said she'll be on the Mall protesting, and I'll join in.

I think we can see who a leader might be -- the Honorable Mr. Kucinich.

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