Stuart writes: "After the dust settled Wednesday, Rolling Stone sat down with Jane O'Meara Sanders to discuss this roller coaster of a week - and year - and to find out where she and Bernie will go from here."
Jane Sanders. (photo: AP)
Jane Sanders: Why Bernie Voters Shouldn't Get Over It
29 July 16
Bernie's wife discusses her proudest and most difficult campaign moments, the DNC email leak and the future of his revolution
n Tuesday, Bernie Sanders formally nominated Hillary Clinton to be the Democratic nominee for president, officially drawing to a close a hard-fought, 14-month campaign that brought him within spitting distance of the White House. It was a bittersweet moment — not just because he came so close and fell short, and not just because his brother, Larry, was there to say publicly how proud their parents would be, but because it came just a few days after evidence surfaced that the Democratic National Committee had, as Sanders claimed months earlier, favored the Clinton campaign while claiming to remain neutral during the primary.
Inside the DNC convention hall Tuesday, many of Sanders' delegates walked out in protest. Outside, supporters from all over the country marched and chanted. But sitting in his box inside the Wells Fargo Arena, Sanders never betrayed his frustration.
Neither did his fiercest defender, staunchest ally and closest adviser: his wife, Jane, who was by his side all week, and throughout the campaign.
After the dust settled Wednesday, Rolling Stone sat down with Jane O'Meara Sanders to discuss this roller coaster of a week — and year — and to find out where she and Bernie will go from here.
Last night during the nomination roll call, Bernie's brother, Larry, had the chance to cast his vote for Bernie on behalf of the delegation of Democrats living abroad. What was that moment like?
That was emotional. It was a surprise. I knew he was going to be with the Democrats Abroad. I didn't know that they were going to ask him to cast his vote separately. Bernie and Larry lost their parents when they were young — Bernie was 19 when his mom died, and 21 when his dad died. So, you know, to be thinking how his parents would feel to see Bernie over this last year and then Larry, as a delegate, to vote for his brother for president — that was an unbelievable moment.
Bernie got a little choked up.
Yeah! And that's not like him — he tends to be very serious and rational. But, I mean, you talk about your parents at a time like this, and your brother is there with you, and your whole family is with you — four kids and all the grandkids. It was pretty amazing.
That was the last real obligation Bernie had this week. How are you feeling now that most of the work is done?
Relieved, a bit? Though all the work is not done. We're moving to a new chapter.
There was a period of time where we were working with the Clinton campaign to have her agree, and the Clinton delegates agree, to the most progressive platform in a number of areas, and to hammer out a health care bill that provides a public option and doubles funding for health centers, and a higher education bill that allows people making under $120,000 a year — that's 83 percent of our population — to be able to send their kids to college tuition-free at public colleges and universities.
He could have conceded long before, and people — the media — were asking every time we saw them, "When are you going to concede? When are you going to endorse?" That was difficult, because we stayed in as long as we could to use as much leverage as we could to get everything we possibly could get, including the rules committee, where we rethink how we run these elections.
He's not going to win the presidency, we've known that since June 7th [the day of the last big primaries, in California and New Jersey], but we had to do as much as we possibly could on the issues to honor all of the work that so many people have done, and that we did. So that's why I say it's a bit of a relief now — now we can move to the next chapter.
How granular did those discussions with the Clinton campaign get?
Very, very, very. This is not conceptual at all. It's policy. Where is the money coming from? How are we going to do it? All of it is in stone. It's good.
What kind of assurances did you get to ensure they'll follow through on these agreements?
It's funny. My daughter was speaking to somebody with a spiritual background, and he said, "Bernie lit the flame — now we'll hold their feet to the fire." And that is exactly what we need, from all the people. Bernie can do some of it, but, just like the campaign, it's not about him — it's about all of us.
Can you tell me about some of the hardest moments for you on the campaign trail?
Learning what I didn't know was hard. To see people suffering unnecessarily was just unfathomable. Why? Why is this being allowed? Going to the Native American reservations: Pine Ridge, Oak Flat, where they sold the copper mine deposits to a Russian company and it was on sacred ground. Why? Hearing all of the stories of people being treated unfairly by people in power, no matter what way, whether it's in their state governments, in their local government, in the federal government. Looking at Native Americans and looking at how they don't have education equity there, they don't have good health care, they don't have economic development, they don't have housing. I'm married to someone who is all about the people. He hears about a problem, and he wants to fix it; he does everything humanly possible to do that. It's just so foreign to me. So that was the hardest part.
When were you most proud of Bernie this past year, if you can pinpoint one moment?
There were so many moments where I was proud of Bernie. I probably sound silly, but that debate where he said, "I'm sick of hearing about your damn emails," he didn't think of that [ahead of time]. It wasn't a plan. He's not a politician who thinks of things and plans it all out. He just answers the questions, truthfully. I was very proud of him there because it was an easy hit, and yet all we were hearing was speculation, speculation, speculation every single day, and nobody was talking about the real issues that are affecting people's lives. He said it, and he meant it: We'll wait and see the process. I remember thinking, People are going to say that's a political mistake, but it's a principled point of view. And I don't think it was a political mistake, because people understood: This man is for real. He's a principled person.
What about you? You're one of his closest advisers — what are you, personally, the most proud of this campaign?
I can't claim credit for this: My daughter told me about Oak Flat, and then we had a meeting in Arizona — a rally— and a 14-year-old girl stood up and talked about the sacred site. I went to Flagstaff around the same time, and met with the Navajo Nation, met with the Apache-Stronghold, and came back and talked to Bernie about all this and said, "We have to do something, we have to do something." And he said, "OK." And since then, we met [with Native Americans] every single time we could. We have the strongest Native American platform. It is something that Deborah [Parker, a former vice chairman of the Tulalip Tribes in Washington State, named to the platform committee by the Sanders campaign] fought for beforehand, and could get nowhere. At the main [Democratic Party platform] meeting she said, "They want me to water it down." We said, "No. You don't start at a compromise. Go in there for what you want." She went in, she wrote this magnificent piece, and started to cry in the middle of [reading it to the platform committee]. Jim Zogby, another member of our people on platform committee, read the rest of it. It passed unanimously, when they were refusing before, because people understood how heartfelt it was.
A year and a half ago, what would you have never expected?
I would never have expected that he would have won the vast majority of people who voted in the Democratic primary under age 45. Blacks, Latinos, Asians, whites, it didn't matter: he won the vast majority of people under 45. I was surprised at how fast they knew him on a gut level. Vermonters know him that way. They know they can trust him implicitly. They know what he says is what he means, and that is what he does, and he come from a core of strong values. I was surprised at how quickly the nation got to know that. The last two years he's been voted the most trusted United States senator — number one. So people have been watching him, but I was surprised by that. I was surprised to see stadiums of 28,000 people. That was kind of shocking, and it's also been gratifying to watch.
What was that like for you? He turned into kind of a rockstar.
It was funny. When I started to see that, I thought, Oh, god, I'm going to have to keep his feet on the ground. What was surprising was he became more humble. He's not a humble man, really [laughs]. But he became more humble because he felt such a sense of responsibility. It was exactly the opposite of what I was afraid was going to happen. So I really just am filled with pride. I'm the luckiest woman on the planet I think.
Was there a moment, early on in your relationship, when you realized he was capable of something like this?
We never thought about this. In the Senate, the joke is: Every senator looks in the mirror every morning and sees the next president. But Bernie never thought about that. He's just a public servant. But I knew he was an unbelievable public servant. When I met him, I was a community organizer and he was running for mayor [of Burlington]. I brought all our small community groups to meet with the five-term incumbent and ask some questions, and they started to evade the questions that the community was asking. So I stood up and I followed up and followed up, and [the mayor] said, "Now you sound like Bernie Sanders." And I sat down and said, "Who's Bernie Sanders?" And they said, "I think he's running for mayor." So I organized a debate, and I listened to him, and I thought he embodied everything I ever believed in. I had turned away from politics. After Nixon got reelected I was like, I can't do this. I can't be a part of this. And he inspired me right there. I immediately said, I have to work for him, and that's how our relationship began. All we were looking at was [him becoming] mayor. I would have been happy ending there. Then he ran for [the House], and the Senate — and I never expected this.
It seems like he's inspired similar feelings in a lot of his supporters this year.
I really like our supporters. The joke was always at the end of [every event], "Where's Jane? Where's Jane?" Because I'm always staying [behind, chatting with supporters]: "OK, I'll take a selfie! Tell me about yourself."
[It's gratifying] how committed they are to the issues they believe in, and to bettering this country, and how a lot of them, really, are very pure at heart. And that's what's hard for them right now. To recognize that, yeah, you know, we didn't get the presidency, but we made a lot of progress, and we're going to keep fighting, and the world doesn't change overnight.
We didn't change the world overnight, but that's never happened. And the amount that we have changed already — we have changed the trajectory of this country and the Democratic Party. So, good work everybody!
I'm curious what it's been like for you watching those supporters inside the arena this week.
I've had a lot of reactions to it. We met with the delegates the first day, and there were 2,000 people there, and it was really heart-wrenching. I couldn't not let tears come down. I tried not to, but all I could think was, We let them down.
How do you mean?
[Tearing up] We did everything we could, but we didn't win. And they were so sad about it. People have been making it sound like they're mad, and they should just get over it. No they shouldn't! They shouldn't just get over it! What do you expect? How do you turn on a dime? We understand that. We understand that we earned their support and their trust. Now Hillary Clinton has to earn their support and their trust. And we will hold [the Clinton campaign] accountable because we are endorsing her. We are that much more committed to making sure [she follows through on her promises], instead of saying, Oh, it's politics as usual, people change. We're not going to let that happen. Not without a big fight, if anything. If the Democratic Party starts backing away from the platform, ever, we will fight like crazy to support the work that all of these millions of people did.
It's been hard in that respect. That's the only time it's been hard for me and Bernie. We've come to peace. You know, he won his first election by ten votes. He lost this election by more votes than can be explained by the things that people are concerned about — the voting irregularities, or the DNC. If it was closer, we might have done something differently, but there is no choice. It's not like we're stopping because we want to. We're stopping because those are the rules of the game. That's democracy. There is a winner and a loser in every election.
We are focused on the issues, and we're winning momentum. And I think some people might not understand that. He had no choice but to step down. His feeling was that Donald Trump is too dangerous to not defeat. So his choice was to endorse — but, at the same time, fight like hell to keep the revolution alive, and keep alive the issues that we all stand behind. So we need [our supporters]. We need them engaged, and we need them to participate. And whatever they decide, it's their conscience, and they should decide whatever they want. Our job is to defeat Donald Trump; our conscience says we can't have that.
Speaking of the DNC, I want to know what it felt like to learn about these internal emails just as you were preparing to come to Philadelphia.
That was hard. It was a roller coaster ride because of that. As I said, I'm more emotional than him, so I was like [shakes head in disbelief], Wait a minute. Wait a minute. But the difficulty is — and he was right, reading [the emails], he said, "Nothing's changed." We said six months ago the DNC is favoring Clinton. The media didn't pay any attention — most of the media. It's nothing new. There is nothing new here for us. But for other people, there is. And now there is proof, and so there will be change. The chairwoman is stepping down. I believe there will be other changes, and there have to be other changes, in the DNC. We can't just say, "What are you going to do?" We have to say, "How are you going to make this better going forward." That's the point. It's not about him.
And the thing is, you know what? If he was president, he'd have to be dealing with everything that came at him. I'm a great rationalizer. We can focus completely on the issues that we fought for and keep moving forward.
What about what's next for you? Are there things you're excited to do now that you'll have the time?
Oh yes, [I'm excited] to have some time — extended time — with our family. Even though we haven't been together, [the campaign] has brought us closer because they all supported us in whatever way they could. Not just politically, but cleaning the house, getting the groceries when we came in at one in the morning; there was fresh milk and bread for the morning. That type of thing. So that's one thing that I'm looking forward to.
And more broadly, what are your plans?
Starting yesterday, we have two new organizations: the Sanders Institute, which will convey the lessons we've learned as we've traveled this country and met with so many people. [And Our Revolution, which will help craft policies and elect new leadership.]
I was in Birmingham, Alabama, and Bernie and I had a closed-door meeting. We had a lot of those before rallies, where we had just people in the community and listened to them, not in front of the press because we wanted them to talk about things that affect their lives. And in Birmingham, a police officer can go up and give them a fine if one shade was high and one shade was low on the building. Oh, you're not taking care of your [property] — $75 fine. And these things would build up, and people would be arrested because they didn't have money to pay the fines, and they'd have a record. "Have you ever been arrested?" [on job applications]. All of these things — the new Jim Crow laws.
I walked out of that meeting, and I just said to Bernie, "Can we go in this other room next door for a second?" He said "OK, what, do you want to write something down?" I said, "Yeah," and I went in, and I just cried. I just said, "How did we not know this? Where is the leadership?" I said, if our [congressional] delegation — Peter Welch and Bernie and [Patrick] Leahy — were there, and this was happening, it would not be happening. They would be banging on every door and changing it, so we need to do that.
McDowell County, West Virginia: seeing that they had a life expectancy in the area 18 years lower than people two hours away in Fairfax, Virginia, because there are no jobs, there's a lot of stress. And these people are smart and interested in controlling their own lives, and nobody is doing anything. They knew 20 years ago that the coal would be depleted in 2017, and they didn't understand that the country would move away from coal [even sooner]. Where was the leadership? How is it that — forgetting the environmental insanity — they knew that coal was going to be depleted, and no one bothered to invest in a new economy in the area?
Those are the things we're going to tackle. We don't have all the answers, but we have the perspective right now. And we're not going to lose it. We're going to put it to good work.
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Comments
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Jane causes rivers of pain to flow.
He lost this election by more votes than can be explained by the things that people are concerned about — the voting irregularities, or the DNC. If it was closer, we might have done something differently, but there is no choice. It's not like we're stopping because we want to. We're stopping because those are the rules of the game. That's democracy. There is a winner and a loser in every election.
In some states the exit polls varied by more than 15 points from the reported results (2% usually flags results). In those same states with the same interviewers -- the GOP results were within the 2% margin of error.
Anomalies were NOT reported in counties that used paper ballots or hacker-unfriend ly machines.
The president of the American Statistical Association has called the election results 'suspicious'.
"The data indicates, in particular, that the totals reported on the Democratic side in the race between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders may not be correct. In state after state, independent examination by two separate analysts found suspect statistical patterns giving Clinton inflated percentages, that in all likelihood, are not fully based on actual votes, and showing Sanders with what appear to be artificially depressed totals."
electionjusticeusa.org
We need to deal with the pain and come together to carry on.
I don't agree with him that the Democrat party or CLinton should be the next projects, but the rest of the program is clearly in our interest and on our side.
1. Vote for Jill Stein or write in a quality candidate of your choice.
i.e. exercise your full rights and vote your conscience.
2. Don't vote for anyone. None of the above.
i.e. Withhold giving your consent to those who may increase war as they also decrease health care and simultaneously they increase burden of debt on the poor Americans.
Me, I am voting for Jill Stein.
Jill, not Hill.
Next time (2020) I hope Stein follows my advice and challenges Clinton in the primary.
If Clinton steels that primary, I'd have NO problem voting for Stein on a 3rd party ticket.
We need to fix this. It's FUBAR.
Since I have no other option available, Jill Stein it is.
Fact two: Voting for Trump means you are voting to destroy the Supreme Court for generations.
Fact three: Any Bernie supporter who votes for Trump (either directly or by voting a third party candidate with ZERO chance of winning) is betraying Bernie. Bernie has asked us to support Hillary. He understands the system and has worked extremely hard to have the influence on Hillary and the rest of the US government that he has.
Bernie has demonstrated that the Democratic Party can be improved and made to truly serve the people - and he is not alone. Elizabeth Warren, Al Franken, and other courageous and honest progressives in Congress are all working on the same project.
Get real. Saving the Supreme Court is worth doing. It is far more important than clinging to unrealistic and petulant emotions.
Jill2016.com/pl an
Voting for a 3rd party candidate is similar in effect to not voting, and almost half of us did that. But there are major moral and political implications in a 3rd party vote not present in mere abstention.
In 2000, I voted for Nader in a safe state, Illinois, but drove democratic voters to the polls.
Looking back, I am glad I voted for Nader. As you recall, Gore won a decisive victory, but the people were cheated out of a President by low down dirty politics at the highest levels of government.
Voting my conscience was the correct move. Ralph and I were not in any way responsible for the Bush Cheney debacle.
My only regret is that the green party barely moved off the dime at that point and did not go on to form the basis for a new progressive politics.
And THAT is where true LANDSLIDE victories await.
The vast majority of people clearly believe voting 3rd party is futile, thereby self-fulfilling their prophecy.
And a vast majority know that neither party flavor of the duopoly really shares their values or will represent their needs and desires.
And THAT'S a Glass Ceiling that needs to be shattered. For, as HRC said in her acceptance speech, anytime a barrier is broken, it creates opportunities for everyone.
It's pointless to engage in debate about 'blame'. Of course everyone is entitled to vote their conscience without feeling guilty but denying cause and effect is a very different thing.
No one will ever convince me that we would have invaded and occupied Iraq had Gore won the election. Countless dead as a result and much of the turmoil in the Middle East today is a direct result of it. The lesser evil is dramatically less evil at times.
It's simply a fact that a vote taken away from Clinton is a vote that empowers Trump. That's fine in a solid blue state but it could matter elsewhere. Believing that a 3rd party has no chance in the coming election is nothing but reality based logic based on polls, history of US elections, apathy of the electorate, majority support for the two major parties, etc.
It is amazing how the propaganda machine can misdirect reality with fear and lies. Trump is the 'opposition', not the devil. The enemy of democratic progressive politics is the status quo of income inequality. Insider exchange of back-room compromises that undermine progress and exploit resources and effort for profit and power.
Bernie Sanders "experienced" this politics for a half century and dedicated his morality and intelligence to exposing and fighting it. The people and interests behind the Clintons, and many like them, work to maintain that system BECAUSE IT WORKS FOR THEM.
The Supreme Court is an "at risk" experiment in representative democracy BECAUSE it has become part of that politicized 'process' of money and special interest working through selected hacks who promote and sell propagandized philosophy rather than seeking and selecting equitable judgment. It has become, like the Presidential nominating process, a "win/lose" contest rather than a selection of greatness.
It may be true that the 'ideal' is difficult to achieve. But it is only impossible if we are too busy, too lazy, too self-righteous, or too indifferent to bother being "fellow" citizens. When we look for someone or something to FEAR or BLAME rather than working to find solutions. Bernie offered solutions. Hillary offers experience at compromise. Trump offers "Trump".
You, James38, and I offer opinions, not "FACTS".
James, you are right and you are wrong. Yes, votes for third party candidates take votes away from the two major parties. But voting for third party candidates is voting FOR an alternative to the two major parties and NOT a vote for any of the two major parties. It is a vote for what you want, and NOT a vote for something you don't want.
And so long as you and your ilk continue to believe and act as you do, you will guarantee that we will be dominated by the corporate owned two party system forever.
By voting for the lesser of two evils (which is still evil), you are voting FOR the two party duopoly. I hope that is what you truly want, because that is what you will truly get.
And finally, think about this. If you take away enough votes from the two major parties, the bastards will never win.
If you want Jill you need to work real hard between the elections not just when the election takes place.
Now would be a good time to get to work!
Oh, please put that stupid argument away. If you vote for Stein you vote for Stein.
Hillary thinks she can spit on the Sanders supporters, because she doesn't need them. Well, she won't get them and she can win on her own neofascist merits or lose to Stein or Trump or whoever.
There hasn't been a more disgraceful Democrat candidate in the last 50 years. The main thing she will bring to the Oval Office is nuclear war. She can head for the Cheney ranch in Paraguay. We can't.
MY OLD ARGUMENT!
Yes, I said the same thing 9 months ago.
I'd been saying it ever since 2000.
I've changed. I'm fighting AGAINST the evil now.
NONE of the things you say are FACTS. They are OPINIONS and you're welcome to yours..
If anything, Sanders' attempt proved her correct, so if you hope to vote for her in 2020, you might want to register as a Green.
You wouldn't be leaving the Democratic Party. It left you.
A long time ago.
No need to be desperate, Billy Bob. Jill Stein's a stronger candidate with more integrity and FAR less baggage than Clinton (or Trump).
For those of you who concerned over the asinine argument that "a vote for Stein is a vote for Trump" please read this:
http://www.inquisitr.com/3359928/seven-key-ways-jill-stein-is-not-ralph-nader/
You say "Withhold giving your consent to those who may increase war as they also decrease health care and simultaneously they increase burden of debt on the poor Americans", but avoiding voting for Hillary means you are voting for Trump. See my comment answering Billy Bob.
If you have not thought about this clearly, you should do so. Voting for Trump (directly or by voting for Stein) is NOT going to achieve any of your goals. What, you think Trump is a fine ideal candidate?
"Jill, not Hill" is a real cute way of saying "I, Capn Canard, am voting for Trump."
If you want to recommend "exercise your full rights and vote your conscience", you must take into account the practical reality of the situation. Using your power, your vote, to achieve anything that equates to promoting positive effects on our society in this election means following the request of Bernie - vote for Hillary. He is making that request of us for the very simple reason that he understands the practical reality.
I am optimistic that there is still a possible path for THIS election.
What will happen if emails emerge showing that the totals were electronically changed to allow Clinton
to declare victory in all of those states that had major exit poll conflicts with the "Reported Results?"
What if the American people see proof that the primary results were rigged? How could she continue to run a campaign?
She could not!
Now that the Queen of Chaos has been coronated, what would it take to get her supporters to vote for Sanders if she was forced out?
They'd be REALLY pissed off. If the rigging had been legally proven earlier, most of the Hil-Bots would have voted for whomever the Dems nominated. But now? We fear many would write her name in even if she was in prison.
On the other hand, they've done such a good job of scaring people about Drumpf, maybe they'd vote for the legitimate nominee even if they blamed him for HRC's crimes.
Dunno.
It would be interesting and would really put Stein in the driver's seat, possibly with Bernie.
The FBI investigation into the Clinton Foundation could be what will bring them down. IF DoJ permits it.
It is up to the Attorney General to indict.
We know who she works for.
Are you implying that she could have other than the purest interests in blind justice in mind?
Shocking!
SHE and the DNC have made it quite clear THEY are willing to risk a Trump presidency.
I know, people will try to show me crunched numbers or make up some other reasons to maintain the status quo but, no, I will be voting for Stein because she is the best opportunity we have to move this country forward. Period.
Jill2016.com/plan
That's true because you have any proof that it's true, or because you say so?
I say that at LEAST since the Supreme Court selection of 2000 (and even more-so since 9/11), any American who doesn't know that the "elections" are a controlled sham and staged TV show doesn't WANT to know.
Fasten your seat belts and hang on for dear life, folks: It's going to be a very bumpy ride.
I'm sorry my parents are dead--true, Dad would be 117, closing in on 118 years old and Mom zooming toward 112, but they would roll up their sleeves and get to work! Their generation (the LaFollette Progressives) fought for justice and peace. Mine (the Buttoned Down generation who were in college in the Crappy Days of the 1950s) didn't fight and were generally wimps. As Kurt Vonnegut used to say: "So it goes"--but the wimpiness can't go on much longer.
My money is on the Millennials, who know that unless they grab control and really Occupy--soon!-- there will be nothing left for them to grab and Occupy. GO FOR IT!
All due respect, Sir, but being the harbinger of bad times, times which loom nigh sixty-five years later, certainly gives you some level of wisdom. However, it doesn't make you Nostradamus. Personally, I feel like the "house of cards" is salvageable...b ut NOT if Jabba the Trump ends up in the White House.
If that should happen, I will be pointing my finger at all of you who will be voting with your gonads by casting your ballots to Jill Stein, handing just that many thumbs up to the GOP and screwing the entire nation. If not the world!
If the DNC cared about being pragmatic, they wouldn't have STOLEN the nomination.
I don't mean to sound superior. I apologize. But I am sick of being cowed by shills, and I would appreciate their leaving us to serious discussion. They are annoyances, like gnats, so I consider it an apt, and nonobscene, descriptor.
You wouldn't be the first to seem to believe that this is a closed forum open only to those like minded on every topic.
The 'establishment' and their media tools, along with 'bought and paid-for' shills in "public" office are as determined NOW to stop Trump as they were willing to commit crimes and invest $billions$ in preventing Bernie and a progressive revolution from gaining control of the White House. My own sense is that the Clinton Campaign obsession with Trump is a 'convenience' to allow progressive commitments made at the recent convention and across the months of campaigning can be ignored, left to wither and die behind the smokescreen of how fearfully an egotist with very few Washington insiders or "BIG" money investors can run a multi-trillion dollar complexity like the United States Government.
It seems too much hype about an unknown.
It's not even clear what you're trying to say.
Indeed it will. I'm already backing away from most of these forums, as the real work now lies elsewhere.
Now he asks to stop TRUMP. No 3rd party candidate has ever won and only put a person in office that should never of been in office Like the Shrub and Vader.
And if you think they were bad wait to your see orange Jesus and Mysonginist Pence. The Supreme court will all be Scalia types and the progs will be thrown to the lions in the Old Roman ways and means. The people are awake and now we will take it local and homegrown from dog Cather to the top. Policies will be changed when we put in the New Progs and Dems coming out of the strangle hold of establishment politics. Change does not happen easy and not quickly. Educating and leading is a very difficult and time consuming and will happen 1 day at a time. Never quit and somtimes we have to freeze where we are at and devise new ways to bring Change in difficult times and places. But we are as seen inth DNC as all that was addressed on teh Platform was that of Sanders and we will hold them to the heat of the fire that is the Bern!
If in 4 years we are betrayed then we have a reason to change. We seen already change in the DNC and we must allow it to grow and not bash it cause we do not want a TRUMP FASCIST Racist Mysoginist PIG who asks Russia's help
I hope she finally totally dumps her support for TPP, but the simple fact that Trump would be far, far worse makes voting for Hillary the only sane thing to do.
Saving the Supreme Court from Trump Scalia-Clones is sufficient reason, and there are lots more.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/tim-kaine-trade-tpp-226054
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/27/politics/hillary-clinton-trans-pacific-partnership-terry-mcauliffe/
And yes - Hillary DOES have to earn my vote - I won't do it just on somebody's say so without going over the facts - including Bernie's.
Wow!
Voting for a 3rd party candidate is similar in effect to not voting, and almost half of us did that. But there are major moral and political implications in a 3rd party vote not present in mere abstention.
In 2000, I voted for Nader in a safe state, Illinois, but drove democratic voters to the polls.
Looking back, I am glad I voted for Nader. As you recall, Gore won a decisive victory, but the people were cheated out of a President by low down dirty politics at the highest levels of government.
Voting my conscience was the correct move. Ralph and I were not in any way responsible for the Bush Cheney debacle.
My only regret is that the green party barely moved off the dime at that point and did not go on to form the basis for a new progressive politics.
What? You weren't aware that only 24 thousand Florida Democrats voted for Nader, while 308 thousand Democrats voted for Bush? And that several demographics that usually vote Democrat also voted for Bush? If anybody lost the election for Al Gore, it was Al Gore.
Vote Jill Stein.
Bernie gets it. That is why he is asking us to vote for Hillary. Not because he isn't furious about the DNC tricks, not because he didn't want to win, but because he wants to actually improve things.
I find it very hard to believe that the "vote Stein" or "vote Libertarian" folks fail to understand that 1. That means a vote for Trump (and Scalia clones on the Supreme Court), and 2. They are betraying Bernie.
If you want to vote for Hillary by all means knock yourself out.
But if you can't figure out why millions of people aren't voting for either of the most corrupt and despised front runners in recent memory then YOU are the one who needs to educate yourself.
Remember, google's your friend - use it!
Your fear mongering isn't going to work, either. 1. Your rational (a vote for Trump) is laughable and 2. Bernie doesn't own my soul. It's not a pact. Nor do I have any devotional ties to either party. If it seems like I'm betraying Bernie remember this; the DNC did that job quite well.
One more thing: Forty four percent of voters are registered as independent. With such flawed front runners expect that number to rise.
Millions of people are going to vote Green. The DNC just did more to help the Green Party than anyone ever.
The DNC just made the case that the Clintons are more dangerous than Trump.
The only argument for Hillary is that she's not Trump. The only argument for Hillary is that she's the lesser of two evils. Wow. What a remarkable admission. What a bankruptcy of reason and ethics.
NEVER HILLARY.
It's not about Hillary. It's about strategy.
Bernie was a yuuuuge threat to that plan and Trump is absolutely uncontrollable. While Bernie's policies are anathema to their corporate/fasci st 'business' plan, Trump's personal disrespect for the monied class is akin to unwashed homeless folk crowding into a country club dance. Same handful of aristocrats despising 'others' for "messing" where they have no 'right' to interfere. Return to a 90% income tax will re-orient their sense of superiority.
That would explain the hysteria and the GOP scrambling.
Therefore the one they really fear is Trump because he IS uncontrollable.
For now I've discarded the 'strategy' of writing in Sanders. For now I'm planning to vote Green.
Could things get bad enough I would actually vote for Trump? God I really hope not. But to me, it's imperative we keep the Clintons out of the WH.
Of course there's still 100 days to go. sob. Who knows what will happen.
If a President Drumpf tries to do the "wrong" thing, he could well have a Dealey Plaza moment.
It's about strategy? What's your strategy? To vote for a loser because she's not as bad as the other loser? That's a cool strategy.
You can say that you will lose if Trump wins, but what you fail to understand is that you are going to lose either way.
Voting for losers is a sure way to make you a loser.
Please consider using a search engine that does not track your searches and sell your data to the highest bidder or just hand it over to the surveillance state.
I'm not sure which search engines don't track your searches. I'm sure the main ones - google, bing, yahoo - do. If you know of any that don't I'd sure appreciate it. Thanks in advance!
Other RSNers have mentioned others.
Sorry to disappoint you Doc but we haven't won squat with Hillary - she'll move right back to her former positions prior to Sanders entrance in the race as she tries to outtrump Trump for independent votes.
The argument about "wasting your votes on third-party candidates" is as laughably outdated as the twist. There's a good reason why Clinton and Trump have such high disapproval numbers; millions of voters are refusing to vote for either one precisely because of their deep flaws as candidates. Can you blame them?
"Blue dogs that will be traitors to our cause" - what a wonderful and apt description of Hillary Clinton. If she loses, she'll have absolutely no one to blame but herself.
If voting Green puts Trump in office we can last through 2020 and get him out.
Hillary will start wars and privatize social security -- and make sure we're unable to vote her out in 2020. We have to stop her now.
He has also said explicitly, multiple times, that he would stop TPP.
I disagree with him on many issues, including the spread of nuclear weapons, and don't believe everything he says. But I don't believe what Clinton says either.
As for jobs, I don't think either one is bringing them back. Technology is just plain eliminating jobs and TPTB don't seem interested in addressing this dilemma. But I'm also puzzled by this. Americans are creative and talented. Why CAN'T we make goods that would be in demand. I think we could. Why not lead the world in alternative energy etc?
Bernie Sanders (and Ivanka Trump?) both mentioned a national day care system, which would employ many and offer a needed service. We need ideas like that, an end to austerity.
What do you think about jobs and austerity?
I think we have two horrible candidates and it's depressing.
Hope you're well.
Ditto for your buddy James 38
I won't just "get over it," not this time. I'm angry and so are the rest of us who have left the stinking Dems.
We're so lucky that they are committed to keep going, we desperately need their leadership.
Betray Bernie in your anger and you prove what? That you didn't understand that Bernie is asking us to support Hillary for very good reasons?
Like don't elect Orange Crush and Puritan Man?
The Dems aren't sinking. Bernie showed us that the Democratic Party can be revived as a force for social good.
If you wish to focus on the opposition rather than the enemy, have at it. YOU are a very real part of the justification for "things" the way they are.
You have no way of knowing anything about anyone's finances.
You have no way of knowing what Helga thinks about any "social" issues or how any of them affect her.
How on earth would supporting Jill Stein put money in anyone's pocket?
You still haven't done your reading, lights, and you need to: https://richardcharnin.wordpress.com/2016/04/13/17564/
I could write a better guidebook for Trolling For Hillary than the one you follow, but I won't. Eventually, she'll get tired of paying you per red mark and stop the paychecks.
Did you READ the article above?
THAT's how your girl treats great people.
Oh and she lets children go hungry and plans to bomb them.
What a girl, amiright?
I don't put pure spite and vindictiveness past Hillary, but Brock wants to earn his blood money too. Undoubtedly has charts up the yazoo.
Hey brock-aaak, I hope those charts are up yer yazoo.
Take minute, stock up the fridge, run the vac around yourselves...ri tual is healing.
Then please get the Our Revolution site cooking. I joined, I threw in $27 but the last time I went back, the only thing up there was the joining page and the contribution page.
First thing I want to know is which of the hundreds of Democratic candidates who send me fund raising emails are close enough to your principles that you'd recommend them. As soon as you contribute anything through Act Blue, it seems like every Dem in the world comes calling for $$$. They've started to talk the talk but I want to know which ones you think will walk the walk. You can be wrong about some and it'd be OK...but I haven't a clue. So help there would be appreciated.
Next...let me/us know what we can do to:
1) Keep TPP from passing in the lame duck session...and
2) ..actually hold her (Hillary's) feet to the fire about TPP once she's elected. I think she will be but I'm kinda hoping it's close enough that she realizes she needs the progressives. We're gonna need a little luck and a lot of popular activism for her to go against the money on this one.
So take a little break guys...oh a week should do it...I'm 70 and zoning out for a week usually gets me antsy to be back at it.
You've got a MUCH bigger voice now. Maybe not Huge, but maybe big enough.
Please...we need you now more than ever.
http://berniecrats.net
I believe this is the similar site created by the former Bernie Campaign Staff, mostly preparing for the 2018 mid-terms:
http://brandnewcongress.org/home
Looked at both sites. Good steps...I signed up with brandnewcongres s. Didn't seem to be a sign up on berniecrats but good info.
Not a lot of candidates in my state, PA. I did vote for John Fetterman in the primary and he made a credible showing for a 1st timer.
Thanks..
But come back as soon as you can...there's a lot that can still be done. Everything...al l the policies that you have been fighting for...are still in play. They're only NOT in play if people feel defeated and give up.
It is a mistake to think the choice can only be Trump or whatever the Dem establishment wants.
It gets more complicated now because you are not a direct threat to her anymore. But you've been in politics a long time. You know the choices are rarely actually either/or.
You worked with John McCain when you had common interests. What's the best way to use this movement that you have galvanized. We...well I...will follow because I trust where you're trying to go.
We still need your leadership...wh en you're ready.
I may shift to encouraging people in "safe" states to vote for Stein, but back off on those in "battleground" states if it looks like Stein has no chance of winning close to the General Election.
It is possible to promote Jill Stein AND Bernie's list of Lower rung candidates (Governors, Senators, etc.) at the same time. Not just every Democrat willy nilly. The Who's Who will come clear in the next month or so. The Greens will need votes in every state.
The worst thing imaginable is a Hillary in the White House with a congressional majority! We'd all go up in the mushroom immediately.
If we can get Dr. Stein's poll numbers up high enough that she gets into the Debates, that could be a game-changer.
Of course, most of the polls are paid for or even done by the corporate press. Progressives would likely be better served by completing their own, or at least hiring a reputable polling firm.
The rigged system is everywhere.
Bernie is only relevant because Hillary was brave and femininely sexy, motherly enough in the first place to give Bernie a chance to be heard at all.
SHE is what matters to give the human race HEART that can save us from our reptilian ancestry!
The rest of your comment is just silliness.
Do those who choose not to follow Bernie's wise decision to ask his followers to vote for Hillary believe Trump will do this? Can you see you are behaving in the identical way the GOP has been acting by saying "my way or the hightway"? I keep hearing it said Hillary has to "earn our vote", apparently you don't care if Trump earns your vote, in fact you seem actually excited and eager to give give him your vote with your blessings. I hope you rethink this, the consequences of a Trump presidency are catastrophic.
This focusing on one of a 150-year long series of SCOTUS decisions and Congressional legislation is a red herring.
From a small "d" democratic standpoint, there are a whole series of SCOTUS decisions and laws that need to be changed to have the results you seem to want.
ALL forms of bribery by ANY individual or entity needs to be banned, and any government official found taking bribes should face serious felony charges.
The people of the US need a lesson in government. It is Congress not President that makes laws & policy. Presidential power came from FDR who had a super majority Congress making him the true leader who could do anything. No President since FDR had a super majority Congress. To prevent Trump from enacting his policy or the GOP platform, if he is elected, We the People must replace the GOP Congressional majority with a Dems / Green Party super majority. So we can do to Trump what the GOP did to Obama. This not the presidency must be our priority.
After reading the Green Party platform I'm inclined to vote for Jill Stein, I'll decide after their convention next week 4-7 Aug.
If it is true that independent voters represent over 44% of voters that makes us the majority. We must increase voter participation to as close to 100% as possible, if we really want to change this nation. Bernie supporter need to make it your mission to help people get registered & vote.
We can still win, Bernie is still in the Senate & can lead the charge to make the movement law if we give him a like minded Congress. Changing the Congress must be our priority. Elect Bernicrats to Congress.
has been stolen from me by crooked and self-interested politicians, such as Mrs
Clinton. Those are the cold facts at present. I have lost interest in my country,
because I know full well that that the only
important thing in politics is self-advance-
ment at any cost. The citizens in the US seem unable to come to grips with reality.
This nation would have lost WWII. Good luck!
What we have now is a country with an Orwellian government and an Orwellian society.
--to help US run for office,
--to identify progressive candidates we might want to support, and
--to continue to try to build our more perfect union, where we really might have a government of, by, and for all of the people.
However, it was MY vote, MY voice, MY choice, and MY prospective government that the DNC & the Clinton team stole, and I will no longer support such corruption. I've wondered for years whether the American people really could have made the choices we were told we have made, but I now know that we did NOT.
https://richardcharnin.wordpress.com/2016/04/13/17564/
Himself and I will become registered Independents this week. We will be voting for Jill Stein in November.
Do you not realize that the Democrats and Republicans are both corporate-funde d parties and if either Hillary or Donald gets elected in November, the corporations will be the big winners.
Do not look at the two-party duopoly as your friends or as your representatives . Except for some members, these parties only care about the bottom line. That means money or power and maybe both.
Nothing will change if you keep voting for a Democrat or a Republican for President. But, this is the thing that these two parties want you to believe: If you vote for a third party candidate, that is like voting for the other guy/girl.
The Green Party is growing. In just 10 days, July 12-July 22, Jill Stein's campaign has raised over $500,000, which qualified her campaign for matching funds from the federal government.
According to an interview I saw on YouTube, the average donation to Jill's campaign was $27. Where have I seen that number before? Of course, that was the average donation to Bernie Sanders campaign.
The political revolution will continue with the Green Party. Jill2016.com/pl an
Secondly, if Trump should win (Hillary's fault, not Bernie supporters), the Supreme Court would not necessarily change dramatically. It takes 60 votes to confirm a Supreme Court justice. I am confident that the Democratic Party will increase in enough numbers to deny Republicans that majority. So sleep well tonight.
Oh, and a side note. Trump has been against the TPP from the beginning. Hillary? Not so much! He also wants to begin improving relations with Russia instead of the dangerous saber rattling started by Obama and likely to get worse under Clinton.
Sen Sanders, a political actor of sound judgment, had no difficulty seeing that contradiction. Now he has space within the Party to articulate and act on those issues of social justice which have been on the back burner for two generations.
I think he shows great wisdom in his choice. We'll know soon enough.
Good luck in the wilderness with Dr Stein.
"What Trump is for is Trump. He has no view which can't be reversed tomorrow. He has no opinions, just an interest in Trumpism."
What Hillary is for is Hillary. She has no view which can't be reversed tomorrow. She has no opinions, just an interest in Clintonism.
That is untrue. Her history indicates otherwise. Ask Marian Wright Edelman. Ask Sen Sanders. Your insensate hatred for Sec'y Clinton serves your fanaticism well. Enjoy the campaign, however you spend it.
The DNC cheated to win
The only argument for Hillary is that she's not Trump.
- you lib! me jane!
"Bernie lost this election by more votes than can be explained by the things that people are concerned about — the voting irregularities, or the DNC."
"we will hold [the Clinton campaign] accountable because we are endorsing her. We are that much more committed to making sure [she follows through on her promises], instead of saying, Oh, it's politics as usual, people change. We're not going to let that happen. Not without a big fight, if anything. If the Democratic Party starts backing away from the platform, ever, we will fight like crazy to support the work that all of these millions of people did."
- go bernie! and go dem!
In some states the exit polls varied by more than 15 points from the reported results (2% suggests tampering). In those same states with the same interviewers -- the GOP results were within the 2% margin of error.
The president of the American Statistical Assoc. said the results were 'suspicious'.
From the summary report by EJUSA:
"The data indicates, in particular, that the totals reported on the Democratic side in the race between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders may not be correct. In state after state, independent examination by two separate analysts found suspect statistical patterns giving Clinton inflated percentages, that in all likelihood, are not fully based on actual votes, and showing Sanders with what appear to be artificially depressed totals."
I love Jane but she's not an expert on statistics or election fraud, and may have other reasons to downplay irregularities.
The young people who so enthusiasticall y supported Bernie have to remember the man behind the movement. He has doggedly focused on the issues raised in this campaign for 25 years and most of the time as a lone voice standing up for the poor and the middle class to the likes of Alan Greenspan, just to name one of many. Has he given up? No, because he knows in his heart that these issues are worth fighting for.
Do I want to vote for Hillary Clinton? No. But I trust Bernie's judgement.
Susan B. Anthony fought for women's right to vote her entire life and never lived to see it come to fruition. She was undeterred because she knew in her heart it was right.
This revolution is too important to future of this country to give up now. It is a mere bump in the road to a brighter future for all of us and future generations.
So, thank you, Bernie and Jane, and all of the people involved in your campaign for reminding us all that a government "of the people, by the people, and for the people" is still in reach....if we are willing to fight for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdMWpvvnk2Q
If you see this video and are STILL able to vote for her, you have a much stronger stomach than I do, and you are as much of a sociopath as she is.
My posts keep ending up in the wrong place. This was meant to by a reply to librarian near the beginning of the thread. I guess it's better than having it disappear.
I agree. The group Election Justice USA estimates that irregularities may have cost Sanders up to 184 delegates, which means he would have won the nomination handily.
You can find their report summary here, and download the full 100-page report.
http://electionjusticeusa.org/index.php/report-an-electoral-system-in-crisis/
Let's hope this comes to something. THIS is what we need -- to get HRC out of the race.
But the issue is that the DNC did NOT FOLLOW THEIR OWN RULES.
And how is rigging elections doing anything except harm to "your country?"
The time is not yet ripe or a third party candidate to get elected. Just not enough mass momentum for that currently.
If you really want to send a message to the Dem party write in Bernie's name. I guarantee you that will have more impact and scare the shit of the establishment Dems a lot more than votes for Stein.
This country owes you both a debt they will not fully understand for some time to come.
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