Randy Hayes Urges Obama and John Kerry to Pull the Plug on the Keystone XL Pipeline

By Jane Ayers, Reader Supported News

24 October 15

Randy Hayes is Director of the Washington DC think tank Foundation Earth. He is also the founder of the Rainforest Action Network, and the USA director of the World Future Council. The Wall Street Journal refers to Hayes as “an environmental pit bull.” He also served as president of the City of San Francisco’s Commission on the Environment.

Hayes discusses with RSN journalist Jane Ayers his views about environmental directors getting arrested at the White House years ago to express the urgency of stopping the Keystone XL pipeline, and his hope that Secretary of State John Kerry will decide to stop the production of the pipeline.

: Over four years ago, you participated in a 15-day action for civil disobedience outside the White House that resulted in more than 600 arrests, which brought worldwide attention to the dangers of tar sands oil extraction, the building of the Keystone XL pipeline, and the dangers of climate change. You and actress Daryl Hannah were the first two to be arrested, followed by days of arrests of directors of the nation’s largest environmental groups, along with religious leaders, farmers, ranchers, NASA scientists, and others. Among the big names arrested were Bill McKibben, James Hansen, Julian Bond, Michael Brune, and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Did these people think they could not set up an official meeting with President Obama to address their climate change concerns?

Hayes: An official meeting at the White House wouldn’t have gone far without the serious public pressure about the huge monetary investment in this pipeline. We needed this peaceful civil disobedience as a pointed act of desperation by our environmental leaders and citizens. We still feel desperate to stop this Keystone Pipeline, stop deforestation, and much more!

Q: Why do the nation’s largest environmental groups (like NRDC, 350.org, Sierra Club, Environmental Defense Fund, National Wildlife Federation, Greenpeace, Rainforest Action Network, and Friends of the Earth) feel so desperate about this specific aspect (the pipeline) of the ongoing oil/energy debate?

Hayes: Massive amounts of capital will be invested in this pipeline, and that represents at least 30 years of extracting oil to repay this initial investment. This is not a good way to generate jobs. What about the pollution and waste? Tar sands extraction is a bad investment, especially when we need massive investments into renewable energy sources and reforestation. Tar sands and other oil extraction are stressing the life-support systems of the planet, and that is unacceptable. Dumping tons and tons of pollutants into the atmosphere undercuts the planet’s ability to support life. We are turning the blue sky into a toxic furnace. We see this as a life and death struggle for survival of our species and the entire web of life.

Q: Do you think your previous actions urged President Obama to veto the permit in February 2015 for the building of this pipeline?

Hayes: Yes, and that is why we urgently did this 15-day act of civil disobedience four years ago to urge President Obama to pull the plug on this pipeline with a veto.

Q: Are you hopeful that President Obama will override a possible decision soon by the State Department to allow this pipeline? When is the decision to be made by the State Department?

Hayes: I don’t see any great advantage in the president overriding a yes to the pipeline decision from the State Department. If the State Department says no, then our president won’t have to override anything. As to the timing, I’m starting to think they just don’t ever want to decide.

Q: Former secretary of state Hillary Clinton has recently proclaimed on the campaign trail that she is now against the Keystone XL pipeline. Do you think Secretary of State John Kerry will follow suit, since it was mandated by Executive Order by former president George W. Bush for the State Department to determine whether the pipeline is in the U.S. national interest?

Hayes: Clinton’s position statement is another hopeful sign that makes it even easier for the State Department to say no. Then our president won’t have to override anything. John Kerry is a pretty good environmentalist on oceans, climate, and more. He isn’t angling for an additional elected position. He could and likely will show some spine on this decision.

Q: What did you think of President Obama suddenly allowing Shell Oil’s permit to drill in the Arctic, even though within a short time Shell ultimately pulled out of the region?Because of this action by President Obama, are you concerned he might not ultimately override a decision by Secretary Kerry in favor of the pipeline?

Hayes: The president said yes to Shell, but they didn’t find much. The Department of Interior is now canceling further lease sales in the Arctic. American coal is on the ropes and shutting down mines. The industry is not quite collapsing, but these signs are the winds of change. I put it at 60/40 that the president will either instruct a no decision or override a yes decision. If I had to bet I’d say we will get a no pipeline decision from the State Department.

Q: The Keystone XL pipeline is a Canadian venture to pump oil 1700 miles through six midwestern states, with a proposal to build over the Ogallala Aquifer, which supplies water to our nation’s best farmland. Are you worried about possible leaks, and that the precedent is being set for more tar sands extraction here in the U.S. in the future?

Hayes: Utah has tar sands. Colorado has oil shale. Yes, history says there will be spills, and as we know oil and water don’t mix. It is the wrong way for our nation to go for energy needs. We also can’t afford to burn all that carbon, and we need to end our addiction to oil. I understand there is a national security issue to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, but this is definitely not the way to achieve real energy security. Renewable energy investment and serious energy waste reduction is the way of the future.

Q: What are your thoughts about the southern part of the pipeline having already been built, even without proper authorization?

Hayes: Stacking the deck and corruption are commonplace in industrial society. This happens daily, globally – north, south, east, and west. It is the “build it and they will come” mentality, but it doesn’t always work. I hope to hell and back twice that it doesn’t work with that part of the pipeline. I’d like to see criminal prosecution, but I don’t know if a sufficient case can be made.

Q: Farmers and landowners through the Midwest are also up in arms about this potential pipeline, because they are being threatened with losing the farmland that has been in their families for generations – all by the grabbing of land by Eminent Domain to build this pipeline. What do you think of this threat to the farmland and property owners in the Midwest?

Hayes: My heart goes out to the farmers and ranchers who are having this pipeline forced down their throats. It is distressing to most Americans, because we have better solutions to our energy needs than this. I’m not a fan of Eminent Domain being used for private profit. I understand if it is an interstate highway owned by the people’s government, but not this. It is wrong. Additionally it is wrong for industrial agriculture to overdraw that aquifer and dump massive amounts of artificial fertilizers and chemicals into the system. Industrial farming is as bad as the fossil fuel industry. That has to be transformed as well.

Q: A group of 60+ landowners formed a group called Bold Nebraska and sued TransCanada, winning an injunction against the oil company. Tribes have also now gotten involved to protect their sovereign tribal lands. Do you think these kinds of actions are of interest to the Obama administration?

Hayes: The tribes in Canada have shown serious spine and deep commitment to the respect of nature, especially because of their cultural leanings. That has emboldened the tribes down here. I’m all for it. They even organized a joint cowboys and Indians horse ride in our nation’s capital to show camaraderie. That is all good and sensible and refreshing.

Q: The Keystone XL pipeline from Canada will run down into the Gulf of Mexico region. Are you concerned about the sensitivity of that area since it has not regained its ecosystem after the huge BP disaster? In addition, previous reports have exposed that most of the oil through this pipeline will be sold for export, not for U.S. consumption at all. Are these the facts that are distressing the environmental groups?

Hayes: It’s a terrible precedent to crisscross our country with this pipeline, and then feed the Gulf coast refineries with it. That area is overly toxic already. We actually need to fast-track shut down all those refineries as we add renewables to the grid.

My sources tell me Germany will have 100% renewable electrical energy by 2035, and that includes shutting down their nuclear power plants. The United States needs a bold vision like Germany’s. We are gambling with the survival of our species, upsetting the climate with potentially cataclysmic results. We need a precautionary approach, which is Europe’s official policy.

Most big environmental groups are still too silo mentality. They will tell you climate change is the most distressing problem. It is not. The collapse of the biosphere’s life support systems is what the enviros should to be educating us about. Climate is one of nine key aspects to the biosphere’s life support and they all count and all have to work together. Environmentalism should be replaced with ecological, holistic truth-telling.

Q: What would you say to President Obama specifically face to face?

Hayes: I would thank him for calling for an end to the perverse subsidies the big oil corporations receive, and thank him for speaking so strongly about clean renewable energy for this nation’s future. I would heartfully plead for him to deliver a bold decision to stop this pipeline, and set the sensible tone for the future. I would remind him that it is what he promised us all when he ran for the presidency. I would ask him to talk about the needs of the biosphere as a whole.

Q: Have you recently been invited to the White House to meet with President Obama? What did you focus on, and what was his response?

Hayes: I wish. I was invited to a private tour of the West Wing of the White House. It is my second invite. The computer rejected me the first time. I got in this time, but did not talk one on one with our president. Maybe the third time will be the charm.

Jane Ayers is an independent journalist of 28 years, conducting exclusive interviews for USA Today’s Editorial Q&A, the Los Angeles Times’ Interview, the San Francisco Chronicle, Dallas Morning News, The Nation, Utne Reader, and other publications. She is the author of the upcoming book Hearts of Charity, which contains hundreds of exclusive interviews with world figures concerning the power of the individual to make a difference in the world. She is a regular contributor to Reader Supported News, and can be reached This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it or at Jane Ayers Media.

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