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Krugman writes: "The people most likely todeliver a Greek-style economic disaster here in America are the very people who love to use Greece as a boogeyman."

Greek protesters. (photo: Reuters)
Greek protesters. (photo: Reuters)


Greece's Economy Is a Lesson for Republicans in the US

By Paul Krugman, The New York Times

10 July 15

 

reece is a faraway country with an economy roughly the size of greater Miami, so America has very little direct stake in its ongoing disaster. To the extent that Greece matters to us, it’s mainly about geopolitics: By poisoning relations among Europe’s democracies, the Greek crisis risks depriving the United States of crucial allies.

But Greece has nonetheless played an outsized role in U.S. political debate, as a symbol of the terrible things that will supposedly happen — any day now — unless we stop helping the less fortunate and printing money to fight unemployment. And Greece does indeed offer important lessons to the rest of us. But they’re not the lessons you think, and the people most likely to deliver a Greek-style economic disaster here in America are the very people who love to use Greece as a boogeyman.

To understand the real lessons of Greece, you need to be aware of two crucial points.


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-65 # Roland 2015-07-10 12:33
When you lower taxes, certain ventures on the margin become profitable enough to become a reality. This means more businesses and more jobs and therefore more demand. It also means more investments since the risk reward ratio is more beneficial.

No matter how bad the economy is and how low overall demand is, when you lower taxes you lower costs for doing business. Lower costs will make some businesses (presently not worthwhile) possible, creating more jobs and therefore more spending.

Again Paul ignores the obvious. The people who forecasted much higher interest rates were expecting the economy to pick up at a faster pace. We all hope that someday it will. But it hasn’t and this is obvious by the Feds inaction in raising rates. When the velocity of money picks up those forecasting higher rates will be correct.

Paul seems to have no concern for the value of the dollar. He wants us to devalue it when we hit the wall. He says Greece’s problem now, is not being able to do this. He admits that devaluing the dollar will be necessary but ridicules the people predicting inflation. For anyone who has saved for retirement this should be a concern.
 
 
+41 # CAMUS1111 2015-07-10 13:33
What a total buffoon you are {see I have complimented you--you aren't a half-ass buffoon}. Reserve me a seat when you lecture Krugman on economics.
 
 
-50 # Roland 2015-07-10 15:11
I didn't know that all of the other economists who disagree with Krugman, were buffoons. It might surprise you to hear they think he is a buffoon.

Again you attack me, leaving me to believe, you can't address the content of my post.
 
 
-47 # Roland 2015-07-10 15:20
Just in case you don’t believe me and are too lazy to check -
Article from Forbes—
Title: Voodoo Economics: Paul Krugman Rejected By His Peers

The article starts off— “Paul Krugman has become an embarrassment to the economics profession. Despite his Nobel Prize and despite his previous high regard in the profession, his twice-a-week editorials in The New York Times are causing even progressive economists to treat him as somewhat of a kook.”

Don't get me wrong. I like reading Paul's articles. I find them amusing. Problem is, that some people believe him.
 
 
-48 # Roland 2015-07-10 15:28
also from the article in Forbes
"University of Chicago economist John Cochrane writes that Krugman’s economic view of the world is not taught in any major economics graduate schools, is not taken seriously at academic conferences and is not considered acceptable by any professional economics journals."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoodman/2015/01/13/voodoo-economics-paul-krugman-rejected-by-his-peers/2/
 
 
+33 # pappajohn15@Gmail.com 2015-07-10 18:09
.
But the dude did get the Nobel prize, by the way.

The real problem with Greece, of course, is the EuroZone, which is a failed experiment. And no surprise that it failed, either.

Economics must be local, and to take away the ability of any sovereign state to regulate and modify its economic policies for the benefit of its own people is the beginning of the end.

Greece needs to leave the euro, and the rest of the countries do, too.
 
 
+27 # Doll 2015-07-10 18:48
Roland!

Really. You don't even know that Paul Krugman is a professor of economics at Princeton?
 
 
-34 # Roland 2015-07-10 19:57
Maybe you didn’t read what I posted carefully. If you read the posted article you will see that the comments in quotes were not made by me, but economists, at least one of which is liberal. Maybe you should explain that to University of Chicago economist John Cochrane ,who made the statement that I believe you are referring to.

My point by posting the article was to show that there are economists that disagree with him. And that he has made errors.
 
 
+43 # reiverpacific 2015-07-10 19:03
Quoting Roland:
also from the article in Forbes
"University of Chicago economist John Cochrane writes that Krugman’s economic view of the world is not taught in any major economics graduate schools, is not taken seriously at academic conferences and is not considered acceptable by any professional economics journals."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoodman/2015/01/13/voodoo-economics-paul-krugman-rejected-by-his-peers/2/


I usually ignore you but you're not just a smart-arsed troll but an impertinent and self-opinionate d one onto the bargain.
I make no claim to being anything but vague on the subject but if you really want to dig Economics from a grassroots perspective, get out of y'r hole and get a copy of Dr. Richad Wolff's "Capitalism Hits The Fan": you can also catch him speaking on Youtube -but you'll probably think you're SOOOO much smarter that him too.
The article you cite from what seems to be y'r favorite source of information Forbes, the tome of the elites that is mainly occupied with keeping the score of the top 400 wealthiest people in the world for it's groupies like you, uses a poor example in the University of Chicago, incubator of the appalling Freidman's "destroy-to-reb uild" theorem which has wreaked havoc wherever it has been applied and is what is being pushed on Greece, mainly by Germany, which should be paying Greece for the massacres by the Nazis during WW11, the same Germany which paid < half of what it agreed to post WW11.
 
 
-32 # MidwestTom 2015-07-10 20:03
Germany was bombed to nothing after the war; Greece got there on it's own. Greeks retire at 59; wealthy Greeks do not pay taxes, their labor laws make them one of the least productive countries. they lied to get into the Euro zone, and they continued to lie until the truth finally filtered out. Greece had economic problems before joining the Euro. Greeks did it to themselves.
 
 
+24 # lfeuille 2015-07-10 20:08
Quoting MidwestTom:
Germany was bombed to nothing after the war; Greece got there on it's own. Greeks retire at 59; wealthy Greeks do not pay taxes, their labor laws make them one of the least productive countries. they lied to get into the Euro zone, and they continued to lie until the truth finally filtered out. Greece had economic problems before joining the Euro. Greeks did it to themselves.


Hardly on its own. The Greek economy was doing ok before the Euro. The problems were nowhere near causing it to go under.
 
 
+21 # reiverpacific 2015-07-10 21:53
Quoting MidwestTom:
Germany was bombed to nothing after the war; Greece got there on it's own. Greeks retire at 59; wealthy Greeks do not pay taxes, their labor laws make them one of the least productive countries. they lied to get into the Euro zone, and they continued to lie until the truth finally filtered out. Greece had economic problems before joining the Euro. Greeks did it to themselves.


Have you ever been to Greece and spoken to Greek people?
If you even mention the word "Germany", they suddenly turn from the most hospitable and amiable people you'll ever meet, to fiercely antagonized, near-hateful and uncharacteristi cally bitter folks, almost like any survivor of Buchenwald or Auschwitz.
Have you ANY fucking idea just how many massacres they were subjected to at the hands of the ancestors of Angela Merkel not too long ago.
I spent >four months walking, hitch hiking, taking trains and boats around the country and many of the Islands including Crete, savoring an ancient culture, advanced and civilized while Germans were still living in swamps and emerging from caves, like the ones you and Roland are still stuck in!
How DARE these Teutonic bastards hold a decent and amiable people hostage over issues that were designed to cripple them in the first place!
 
 
-2 # citizen2009 2015-07-12 11:55
Quoting MidwestTom:
Germany was bombed to nothing after the war; Greece got there on it's own. Greeks retire at 59; wealthy Greeks do not pay taxes, their labor laws make them one of the least productive countries. they lied to get into the Euro zone, and they continued to lie until the truth finally filtered out. Greece had economic problems before joining the Euro. Greeks did it to themselves.

That sums it up quite nicely. Yes the Greeks cheated successfully and got away with it till Bush kicked all of us into the financial turmoil in 2008
 
 
+1 # RLF 2015-07-13 05:37
The Greek were encouraged to cheat by none other than Goldman-sucks. That was so that their rich could continue to not pay taxes and invest in Germany and the US. To assume the everyday Greek was part of the cheating is crap. They work more hours a week than the Germans for instance...so check on your facts!
 
 
+1 # RLF 2015-07-13 05:42
The euro zone and the euro are ideas the work well for BUSINESS! They are creations that were brought about by people wanting that part of the world to act more like the right wing Amarica. It has nothing to do with making things better for the people...it only has to do with making things smooth for business and getting people working more hours for less pay. It was a scam from the beginning created by the 1% to screw over the workers so business could compete with China without resorting to import duties.
 
 
-35 # Roland 2015-07-10 20:12
Did you notice that at least one of the economists in the article who criticized Paul, was a liberal. Is he looking out for the wealthiest people in the world?

It isn't that I am so much smarter than Krugman. Mostly its the economists I read that are that much smarter than Paul. It would be interesting if anyone here could explain why any of my points in my first post are wrong.
 
 
+16 # cymricmorty 2015-07-10 21:28
Quoting Roland:
Did you notice that at least one of the economists in the article who criticized Paul, was a liberal.


So what?
 
 
+12 # reiverpacific 2015-07-10 21:58
Quoting Roland:
Did you notice that at least one of the economists in the article who criticized Paul, was a liberal. Is he looking out for the wealthiest people in the world?

It isn't that I am so much smarter than Krugman. Mostly its the economists I read that are that much smarter than Paul. It would be interesting if anyone here could explain why any of my points in my first post are wrong.

Because you wouldn't get it!
You're such a narcissistic reactionary, your blinkers shield you to any hint of progressive reason.
The very fact that you set yourself up as an economic pundit sheds a blinding light on your dark vision of yourself.
Ah Fart in your general direction!
 
 
+1 # RLF 2015-07-13 05:31
You quote someone from the long discredited U. of Chic.! Unbelievable! They have never done anything that was not what business wanted to hear. They are whores in order to continue teaching. Publish or perish and they do by creating crap that business wants to buy. Forbes! The business uber alles mag! You're an idiot to believe anything you read there. That mag is just lining you up for a fleecing.
 
 
+30 # economagic 2015-07-10 19:43
Roland, there is a reason people are attacking you personally ("ad hominem," though that is a crude and fallacious way to argue), here as in another forum on RSN today: You simply don't know what you are talking about.

Forgive me if you actually have credentials in this arcane field of knowledge, but you sound like a garden-variety self-styled "conservative" (i.e., a crackpot) who reads Forbes and has perhaps read some of the asinine screed of Milton Friedman or his Chicago colleagues, and maybe even had a course or two in economics from one of the myriad abysmal popular textbooks. If the latter, you have had the misfortune noted by Josh Billings when he said, "It is better to know nothing than to know what ain't so."

If on the other hand you happen to be a card-carrying classically trained economist, as I am and as Dr. K. is, then you have my apology and my condolences, as you definitely are the victim of the mis-education Mr. Billings refers to. As Dr. Robert Prasch (Middlebury College, VT) says, "The first five chapters are the Kool-Aid [referring to the Jonestown Massacre]: Get them to swallow that and they will believe anything."

I was too old when they got me, and I never swallowed the Koo-Aid, but took a couple of dozen graduate courses in the field in an effort to understand what they were really saying. And I do, but fortunately I also learned that contrary to what the Chicago School and others would have you believe, they are not the only ones here.
 
 
+25 # economagic 2015-07-10 20:05
But if you had managed to jump through those hoops you would know that (a) Dr. K. has published many tedious and arcane articles in peer-reviewed journals just to earn the right to teach in a university, and (b) all economists who have earned the right to call themselves that understand his coherent reasoning even if they disagree with both his politics AND the reasoning itself.

His economics is still strictly orthodox (google "heterodox economics" and "Fred Lee" and follow a couple of links) -- far too much so for me. But even within the classical orthodoxy, few economists other than the late Professor Friedman accept the Quantity Theory of Money ("velocity of money") literally. And neither does the big, smart money worldwide. Go to treasury.gov and take a look at the yield curve on U.S. Treasury securities (federal government debt) out to 30 years maturity. It is up significantly (tenths of a percent) since March, with the 30-year "long bond" yielding a whopping 3.20%.

That means that the global "investment" community (in quotes because economic investment means purchase of PHYSICAL or economic capital) is not expecting inflation to average more than 3.2% for the next thirty years! Yes, there is a caveat there, but for now that is still their reality.

Let's leave it at that for now. Go read some real economics, ESPECIALLY that of people you may consider "socialists," such as Keynes, who along with FDR helped save capitalism from its own excesses.
 
 
+20 # cymricmorty 2015-07-10 19:42
I wish Roland wouldn't feel the constant need to lecture us on fascist economics. (Oh, a trifling bit off topic, but that reminds me: There's probably an open spot in the Florida State openly fascist economics department now that the Koch Bros are yanking the strings attached to their "donations." Check it out, Roland.)
 
 
+33 # Working Class 2015-07-10 18:08
Sorry Roland - you are all wet ----again. Ours is a consumer based economy. 70% of GDP is the result of consumer spending. There is no real life evidence that lowering taxes on those at the top, and unfortunately that is what the GOP always supports, produces anything but deficits. If you want to increase business opportunity you need to increase wages. People then have money to spend, which creates demand. It is demand that creates business opportunity, not lower taxes. Lower taxes for businesses does not create demand and if a businessman creates more product before there is demand he/she won't be in business long. If your theory was correct, then Bush would have had a roaring economy - instead he set the stage of the worse recession in over 50 years. In "Roland World", given the massive Bush tax cuts that would be impossible.
 
 
-32 # Roland 2015-07-10 20:32
First, Bush lowered taxes on everyone not just the wealthy. He even took around 2M of the lower earners off the tax roles. I know the left only concentrates on the top tax brackets because those people save more in total dollars when all taxes are reduced. The economy under Bush was growing until the housing bubble burst. I know the liberals here want to blame Bush and the republicans for this but the Fed keeping interest rates too low for too long, and the democrats getting Fannie and Freddie to lower lending standards and the mandating of loans into poor neighborhoods were major factors. Everyone seems to forget that in 2003 Bush tried to rein in F and F but the liberals blocked him. The NY Times gave Bush grief for this effort in 2003.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/11/business/new-agency-proposed-to-oversee-freddie-mac-and-fannie-mae.html

So in your world there are never any companies on the margin. That is impossible. Lowering the costs of doing business has to affect those opportunities.
 
 
+9 # wrknight 2015-07-11 08:49
Quoting Roland:
First, Bush lowered taxes on everyone not just the wealthy.

That's bullshit. I received a one time tax rebate of $600 (from the Clinton budget surplus) and the rest of my tax savings would not buy a case of cheap beer.
 
 
+4 # Jim Young 2015-07-11 16:28
Quoting wrknight:
Quoting Roland:
First, Bush lowered taxes on everyone not just the wealthy.

That's bullshit. I received a one time tax rebate of $600 (from the Clinton budget surplus) and the rest of my tax savings would not buy a case of cheap beer.


It's worse than that, that rebate was supposed to be what you'd save on taxes the next year. My wife often figured ours out within $1 (back), but the next year said she slipped and we'd get $2. When I asked her if she'd considered the $600, she found out we owed $598, Cheney/Bush essentially just borrowed our checkbook giving us a present we'd have to pay for the next year.
 
 
+12 # wrknight 2015-07-11 08:43
Roland doesn't understand that you can't raise demand when customers have no money. MONEY is what is needed for demand. To know what happens when you lower taxes you have to follow the yellow brick road i.e., follow the money trail. Lower taxes makes businesses more profitable, but what do they do with the extra money? If a smart business man perceives there is more profit to be made manufacturing a new widget, he will go for it. But before he does, he will investigate the market and when he sees there is no one with money to buy his new widget, he will look for something else. If it's more profitable to buy out his competitors, he'll do that. If he can increase the price of his shares of corporate stock by buying back outstanding stock (thereby increasing demand for his stock), he'll do that. (Which, by the way, is exactly what they are doing.)

Corporations today are sitting on unprecedented piles of cash and they have lots of ways to spend it that increase their corporate and personal wealth without creating anything new or increasing wages or jobs. And when customers don't have money to buy new widgets, corporations aren't going to build them and won't increase jobs.
 
 
+5 # Jim Young 2015-07-11 16:41
In other words a massive differential accumulation of wealth and power to those who kept all the seed corn for themselves, and are making sure no one else gets the seed corn, no matter how much more real useful output they could generate, and circulate.

The Velocity of Money (especially in the real useful economy)dropped below the lowest it has been since they started measuring it in the beginning of the Great Depression. Getting the Velocity of Money (in useful products and services that give currency its real value)back to even half of what it was in our best years, would be an excellent rebalancing of the distorted, crippling, differential rewards for truly useful output, sustenance,and growth of a healthier infrastructure, education system,etc.

Why do we pay double what the rest of the developed world does for healthcare, and our students pay 7 times as much for their college educations?
 
 
+6 # kalpal 2015-07-11 09:15
The most unforgivable thing any academic can do is be right when most others are wrong. In politics it utterly unacceptable to be right when the ideological opposition is totally wrong. That can never be forgiven till the end of time or till those in error follow the Whigs.
 
 
+8 # Karlus58 2015-07-11 12:53
No azzho...you ignore the obvious! We were doing just fine when our tax rates were much greater than now. When corporations paid much more and enjoyed their profits. But a society of greed has prevailed. Trickle down economics pushed down the throats of the common person who had been working good jobs with living wages and a one earner family with mom home for the kids. Life was wonderful. But a handful of elites decided they did not make enough cash. They decided the common person was not working enough and getting paid excessively.

The corporatocracy is awash in cash and seeing to it their taxes continue to be slashed. They have enough to pay their way out of a hellhole and the heck with the little people. Only little people pay taxes! That's what's obvious! And you say you're being attacked....wel l it's obvious why.
 
 
+5 # Jim Young 2015-07-11 16:50
The US pays the second lowest revenues per capita to GDP in the developed world, as our infrastructure, education system, and environment deteriorate far greater than when we had more normal developed world revenue to GDP ratios.

That and the current dismal Velocity of Money (which needs to be much higher if you want justifiable lower tax rates) implies "Austerity" is like inflicting a starvation diet on your workers, then wondering why they don't produce (and buy) more.

This version of modern life is becoming far more unaffordable for those of us on fixed incomes or young people who's earnings lag so far behind expenses inflicted by the ever more blind profit seakers.
 
 
+11 # RicKelis 2015-07-10 14:30
FYI- abstract of the Krugman article "Greece’s Economy Is a Lesson for Republicans in the U.S." Center Cut
Paul Krugman: "The “We’re Greece!” crowd have been wrong about everything: soaring interest rates and runaway inflation in 2010; then, when it didn’t happen, they predicted soaring rates and runaway inflation in 2011; then, well, you get the picture.
[And] the story you’ve heard about Greece — that it borrowed too much, and its excessive debt led to the current crisis — is seriously incomplete. Greece did indeed run up too much debt but its debt wasn’t that high by historical standards. What turned Greek debt troubles into catastrophe was Greece’s inability, thanks to the euro, to do what countries with large debts usually do: impose fiscal austerity, yes, but offset it with easy money.
Consider Greece’s situation at the end of 2009, when its debt crisis burst into the open. As it happens, Greece’s debt ratio in 2009 was about the same as America’s in 1946, just after the war. And Britain’s debt ratio in 1946 was twice as high.
Today, however, Greek debt is over 170 percent of G.D.P. and still rising -- [not] because Greece just kept on borrowing.The ratio of debt to G.D.P. is up because G.D.P. is down by more than 20 percent because of the austerity measures Greece’s creditors forced it to impose."
 
 
+10 # RicKelis 2015-07-10 14:32
FYI- abstract of the Krugman article "Greece’s Economy Is a Lesson for Republicans in the U.S." article, Pt.1:
Paul Krugman: "Greece is a faraway country so America has very little direct stake in its ongoing disaster. To the extent that Greece matters to us, it’s mainly about geopolitics: By poisoning relations among Europe’s democracies, the Greek crisis risks depriving the United States of crucial allies.
But Greece has nonetheless played an outsized role as a symbol of the terrible things that will supposedly happen unless we stop helping the less fortunate and printing money to fight unemployment. Greece does offer important lessons to the rest of us -- but the people most likely to deliver a Greek-style economic disaster here in America are the very people who love to use Greece as a boogeyman."
 
 
+9 # RicKelis 2015-07-10 14:34
FYI- abstract of"Greece’s Economy Is a Lesson..." article, Pt.2:
[Now] austerity is [not] always self-defeating. Canada in the 1990s slashed their debt while maintaining growth and reducing unemployment. It involved combining fiscal austerity with easy money: reduced interest rates, encouraged private spending, while allowing its currency to depreciate, encouraging exports.
Greece, unfortunately, no longer had its own currency when it was forced into drastic fiscal retrenchment. The result was an economic implosion that ended up making the debt problem even worse. Greece’s formula for disaster didn’t just involve austerity; it involved the toxic combination of austerity with hard money.
So who wants to impose that kind of toxic policy mix on America? The Republican Party.
The G.O.P. demands that we reduce government spending, especially aid to lower-income families [and] leading Republicans attack the Federal Reserve for its efforts to boost the economy, [thus] “debasing” the dollar — when the main difference between the effects of austerity in Canada and in Greece was precisely that Canada could “debase” its currency, while Greece couldn’t.
The point is that if you really worry that the U.S. might turn into Greece, you should focus your concern on America’s right. Because if the right gets its way on economic policy — slashing spending while blocking any offsetting monetary easing — it will, in effect, bring the policies behind the Greek disaster to America.
 
 
-3 # RMDC 2015-07-10 15:42
Krugman fails to mention Goldman Sachs and the role of the IMF. He also fails to mention that when Greece borrowed money in 2009 from the ECB and IMF, the interest rates were near 20%. Everyone on earth except for Paul Krugman knows that such interest rates are economic suicide. There is no way a nation already in a recession can come up with money to pay that kind of interest.

This is why these IMF structured loans are called "debt traps." Countries desperate for some cash to pay bills get caught into a trap that destroys their economies even further. Then they have to sell off natural resources to eager foreign investors. That is the goal of the IMF's work. It is what is happening to Greece.

Krugman needs to take an honesty pill. But I guess that pill would really be his resignation letter from the NYTimes. He's not going to be allowed to tell the truth about Goldman Sachs on the pages of the NYTimes. So he writes big distraction articles. Go read globalresearch. ca and drop the NYTimes in the toilet. Flush hard -- it is a long way back to the editorial rooms in New York.
 
 
+8 # wrknight 2015-07-11 09:24
Krugman needs no honesty pill. What he wrote was correct and entirely sufficient for his argument. That he could have said more about the IMF and anything else was not necessary.

The key to good writing is keep it simple and direct to the point.
 
 
+3 # RMDC 2015-07-12 08:42
wrknight -- maybe the key to "good writing" is to keep it simple and direct. But the key to good analysis is to get at the real causes of a problem. Not to get at the real root causes is just to write distractions. In situations like this, distractions are the essence of propaganda -- keep the masses looking in the wrong direction so the real thieves can make off with the loot.
 
 
+29 # PABLO DIABLO 2015-07-10 17:56
Hey Roland, you cite University of Chicago economists. Check out Milton Friedman and the "CHICAGO BOYS". They only bankrupted 42 countries with "FRIEDMANOMICS" . Before he died, Milton said, "It wasn't FRIEDMANOMICS that bankrupted 42 countries, it was greed". Well, FRIEDMANOMICS unleashed greed and they felt the people that lost/suffered were fools.
 
 
-22 # Roland 2015-07-10 20:41
Jeffrey Sacks is from Columbia University and believes in Keynesian economics. He is very progressive. He is one of the people in the supplied article bashing Krugman.

It must be difficult when you see people from the left bashing Krugman.
 
 
+5 # wrknight 2015-07-11 09:26
Quoting Roland:
Jeffrey Sacks is from Columbia University and believes in Keynesian economics. He is very progressive. He is one of the people in the supplied article bashing Krugman.

It must be difficult when you see people from the left bashing Krugman.

I don't care where he is from or what he believes in. When he is wrong, he is wrong.
 
 
+4 # RMDC 2015-07-12 08:45
Jeffrey Sachs used to be a practioner of Friedmanomics and economic shock therapy. He was Boris Yeltsin's chief adivsor and he ruined the Russian economy. But he has seen the light and has renounced Friedman and gone back to Keynes. Quite remarkable. Krugman is also a Keynesian but he is just too timid. That's what the NYTimes wants.
 
 
+3 # Bruce Gruber 2015-07-11 09:47
Two minutes on "Google" ... surely you read and consume your 'Hero's praise AND criticism. so as to balance your own understanding - rather than 'faithfully' following and extolling their 'opinions'.
I stopped with only two (2).

(1)
http://www.psmag.com/books-and-culture/smart-guy-jeffrey-sachs-nina-munk-idealist-poverty-failure-africa-65348
and

(2)
http://ncronline.org/blogs/eco-catholic/vatican-summit-participants-catholics-encyclical-could-make-powerful-impact

The first represented Sack's personal views and theories. The second suggests his intelligence and ability to recognize the views of others.
 
 
+23 # Vardoz 2015-07-10 18:39
In essence Austerity is a way to rob our entitlements, safety nets, pensions and the economy to enrich corporations and the 1%. We cannot let these bastards get away with this here!

Sanders will put those bankers in jail like they did in Iceland because Sanders is committed to the success of the 99% and just as Iceland recovered from their serious banking scandal, Sanders, with the help of a top notch team that is supportive of Main St not Wall St, will do what is necessary to rebuild our nation that has been decimated by corporate greed and the greed of those at the top and corrupt reps.

Hillary has already been paid by Wall St to tell them it will be business as usual if she gets elected. So if we vote for her and she gets in don't be surprised it we are left with the status quo.

What is happening in Greece also happened in Haiti. The billions in relief money went to corporate interests who built stadiums and things that did not help the people- the people never benefited from the money just like in Greece.

Austerity is just a scam for the rich to get richer at the expense and lives of tens of thousands of people.

Austerity is a nation killer!!!!!
 
 
+17 # wrknight 2015-07-10 18:47
There's no such thing as a lesson for Republicans. After all, they know everything there is to know, don't they?

You can always tell a Republican. You just can't tell them very much.
 
 
-21 # Roland 2015-07-10 20:44
I can't get the people on this site to listen to a liberal (Sachs) bashing Krugman. Did you mean to say you can't tell a liberal very much?
 
 
+6 # wrknight 2015-07-11 08:51
Quoting Roland:
I can't get the people on this site to listen to a liberal (Sachs) bashing Krugman. Did you mean to say you can't tell a liberal very much?

That's because most of the people on this site can smell bullshit a mile away. You are obviously an exception.
 
 
+1 # karenvista 2015-07-13 01:03
Quoting Roland:
I can't get the people on this site to listen to a liberal (Sachs) bashing Krugman. Did you mean to say you can't tell a liberal very much?


Jeffrey Sachs headed the U.S. team in destroying the Russian economy under Yeltsin. He may call himself a liberal now but he was a Freidmanite when he undertook the disemboweling of Russia. And we have the nerve to complain about the oligarchs while we created them? The criminal give-aways we engineered during our privatization of state enterprises created the oligarchs and stripped Russian citizens of all that they had worked to produce for decades. Sound familiar?

Personally, I think he's just trying to escape the shame he heaped upon himself and his group of economic advisers to Yeltsin (our favorite Russian leader, for obvious reasons.)
 
 
+12 # jimmyjames 2015-07-10 19:42
ROLAND is an ignorant, callous and cowardly troll for the Returdian Party at best. I say "coward" because he spills his crap on these blogs and then disappears so as not to have to defend himself. His filth and arrogant, vile attacks on the common man are posted here to inflame the just and educated public. I would love to meet him face to face and give him a real piece of my mind.
 
 
-15 # Roland 2015-07-10 21:27
I disappear not to defend myself??? How can you make that statement without feeling stupid? Have you seen how many posts I have addressed. I do this all the time on this site. And I give info from Forbes, the NY Times and usually the Wall Street Journal.

And you aren't just calling me ignorant, you are calling a number of economists (including the Keynesian Sachs)ignorant as well.

I have not attacked the common man. This is the misperception of the left. I am trying to help him, it is just that you and many here can't understand how.
 
 
+9 # reiverpacific 2015-07-10 22:02
Quoting Roland:
I disappear not to defend myself??? How can you make that statement without feeling stupid? Have you seen how many posts I have addressed. I do this all the time on this site. And I give info from Forbes, the NY Times and usually the Wall Street Journal.

And you aren't just calling me ignorant, you are calling a number of economists (including the Keynesian Sachs)ignorant as well.

I have not attacked the common man. This is the misperception of the left. I am trying to help him, it is just that you and many here can't understand how.


You reveal yourself constantly as a one-dimensional cipher and are not only confused but confusing, so babble away ad nauseum.
Enjoy y'r jollies -or as we Brits call it- wanking, on a site which gives you the opportunity to abuse free speech.
You've already taken too much space on this article, the real issue being how the Greeks are just the latest example of scorched-earth tactics to protect its elites -who probably have their lucre stashed in offshore havens in Dollars or Euros, whilst the rest of an already suffering people try to cope with conditions never seen since the US great depression, as the banks are closed and they are limited to EU60.00 per day in withdrawals from ATMs.
Hell, they might even be better off returning to the Drachma, jailing the bankers and taking the path of Iceland which is doing just fine.
You've clearly led a insular life, cloistered from much -if any- direct experience.
 
 
+10 # Bruce Gruber 2015-07-11 07:31
Rollie, Rollie, Rollie ...

When you start by putting on blinders so you can focus on what you WISH to believe, "south" is direction of your slide.

..."Bush lowered taxes on everyone not just the wealthy" offers insight into your 'bucks' bigotry.

For just a second consider: Family of four Median annual income $51K ($4250/month).

Standard deductions and exemptions (with child credits) leaves a taxable income of
$30,400 and taxes of $1638 or $136.50 per month. REMEMBER THIS NUMBER, ROLAND!

Shelter cost on median home value is about $179K at 5% interest (80% mortgage) = $773 + $200 insurance and (varies) $300 property tax, or $1273/month PLUS (guess) $380 utilities? = $1653/month.

Food & clothing costs maybe $350/wk; transportation (2 cars, gas, repairs, insurance, pymts) perhaps $1000+/month; child care ?; medical?; savings (college)? IRA/Retirement savings? = $2400+++/month.

Gross income of $4250 per month and (ONLY) taxes, shelter, food, basic transportation = $4193.50 in outflow.

And YOU, RONNIE 'RAYGUN', PAUL RYAN, MILTON FRIEDMAN and "W" grotesquely suggest a tax reduction gift ('benefit') for this family of 2%=$2.73/month, 3%=$4.10/month, or 'maybe' even 4%=$5.46/month.

Is that to "GROW" the consumer economy? Or is it 'bait and switch' to give Jeb, Hillary or Mitt (add whosoever you wish!) an extra $10,000 to $50,000 per month from each of their contributors or to enhance investments or family vacations?

Get a REAL life!
 
 
+10 # Bruce Gruber 2015-07-11 07:51
Oh, gosh, I left out credit card and college debt, emergency events, vacation and entertainment, etc, etc.

NONETHELESS: You continue to Fight that minimum wage increase. Take away the SNAP program. UP the Social Security recipient age. Remove the home mortgage deduction. Sell the National Parks, Bridges, Highways, Prisons, Public lands, all to reduce the "tax" necessity for public policy to allocate costs and benefits in society. BUT keep 'depletion' allowances, allow off-shored excess profits to be enjoyed 'at home' without taxation, free the wealthy of the 'lottery' distribution of personal wealth "death" tax and add "Overhead and Profit of 20-30%" to ALL privatized government activity. That'll generate ...."savings" ????? NO, profit! America's oligarchic success story ... soon as we undo the NEW DEAL in its entirety.
 
 
+6 # Bruce Gruber 2015-07-11 11:25
Damned right!... "calling a number of economists (including the Keynesian Sachs) ignorant as well."

Not ignorant in the sense of uneducated or stupid, but ignorant in purveying biased theories that fail to consider the 'purity' of self-righteous theory against the unINTENDED, but obvious to others, consequences that reality shows were the more appropriate inquiry ... ala 'WMD' still being imaginatively re-reguritated as justification for a trillion dollars of MilIndComplex profits balanced against 3000 unrelated deaths at 911, tens of thousands of casualties now struggling at home and (likely) hundreds of thousands dead and impoverished there as proof of our 'ignorancers-in -chief' and their opportunistic 'experts' with subsequently manufactured proofs and certainties.

Free yourself - defense of prior oversights is not proof of thought.
 
 
0 # BKnowswhitt2 2015-07-11 22:29
Ok Roland i apologize. BK here. I called you a baffoon for saying low taxes by themselves create good economics. That is not so by itself. Sure dereg in many cases is good as regulations sometimes unnecessarily stint growth and new business. Not denying that. It is important to disagree and not hate each other. Hate is not in ANYONES best interest no matter how much we think we are correct .. Amen Brother!
 
 
+4 # BKnowswhitt2 2015-07-10 21:58
If lowering taxes was the answer then we should be in nirvana since Reagan. How come we aren't and it hasn't solved anything only made a greater gap in the hafes and have nots ... that's old rhetoric Roland you are correct Krugman is an ass and so are you a baffoon!!!!!!!!!!!

What came out of Greece most relevant is that making people pay egregious debt with no real means to do so is archaic and a bad and real lesson for the EU and the World Bank and the IM Fucking F''''
 
 
+7 # wrknight 2015-07-11 08:59
Quoting BKnowswhitt2:
If lowering taxes was the answer then we should be in nirvana since Reagan. How come we aren't and it hasn't solved anything only made a greater gap in the hafes and have nots ... that's old rhetoric Roland you are correct Krugman is an ass and so are you a baffoon!!!!!!!!!!!

What came out of Greece most relevant is that making people pay egregious debt with no real means to do so is archaic and a bad and real lesson for the EU and the World Bank and the IM Fucking F''''

Krugman is NOT an ass - he is right on target. Unlike many economists, Krugman understands that economics is a social science not a physical science and that you can't understand economics when you ignore the human factor.

Human emotions, greed, individual incomes and wealth, and access to MONEY all play a fundamental role in economics. Equally important are the opportunities that MONEY and wealth provide that are not available to those without it. Economics is the study of what humans do with money.

THERE ARE NO ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITIES AVAILABLE TO THOSE LACKING WEALTH AND MONEY. AND THOSE WHO LACK MONEY OR THE MEANS TO REPAY LOANS CANNOT BE CUSTOMERS. AND WITHOUT CUSTOMERS NO INTELLIGENT BUSINESSMAN IS GOING TO CREATE NEW JOBS. (Roland might, but then I think I already said that he is an exception.)
 
 
+3 # BKnowswhitt2 2015-07-11 14:18
last paragraph all true and is the Fall of Reaganomics and Don Regan onmics ... no dough no customers no customers no economy .. same with regard to EU .. they took on the merge .. then they boosted (falsely) as all or most of the west eco's are gamed by the lopsided control of the Moneyists for lack of a better term .. so when their shit fails they ask repayment of the bill .. whilst the debtor has no ability to pay or so small as to squelch any positive growth or gain . so they got fucked by a real democratic move .. the people voted that shit out!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!1
 
 
+4 # backwards_cinderella 2015-07-11 02:25
I really wonder what the trolls are being paid. Another job I wouldn't want but gee, the money must be good because there's so many of them spouting their lies.
 
 
+6 # motamanx 2015-07-11 05:28
How many of you in this dialogue support RSN financially? You should.
 
 
+4 # wrknight 2015-07-11 08:56
Quoting motamanx:
How many of you in this dialogue support RSN financially? You should.

I do. Monthly.
 
 
+2 # Robbee 2015-07-11 09:18
krugman is going alzheimer-batty , running a story headlined : Greece's Economy Is a Lesson for Republicans in the US

- zomblicans are impervious to economics - who should know this better than economist krugman

exhibit a : income does not trickle down - it trickles, rather gushes, up

exhibit b : cutting taxes on rich folks does not create jobs - it kills them

exhibit c : austerity does not grow economies - it kills them, kills jobs, and kills income for all but the rich, who can shift investments to stimulated economies

zomblican insanity is trying something that does not work, over and over

zomblicans universally reject all economic truths that conflict with zomblican existential ideology - zomblican ideology is impervious to reason - it is just too hilarious that krugman would not know this - he must be hoping we will use austerity as another talking point against zomblicans - that's the only thing, unless he is going alzheimer-batty , that makes sense
 
 
+3 # Activista 2015-07-11 12:14
Angelos Philippides, a prominent economist. "For a long time Greece spent 7% of its GDP on defence when other European countries spent an average 2.2%. If you were to add up that compound 5% from 1946 to today, there would be no debt at all"
and guess who is the main supplier of military hardware -
www.theguardian.com/world/2012/apr/19/greece-military-spending-debt-crisis
 

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