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Parry writes: "Contrary to the Obama administration's public claims blaming eastern Ukrainian rebels and Russia for the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, some U.S. intelligence analysts have concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault and that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame, according to a source briefed on these findings."

A man walks past a piece of the crashed Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 near the village of Hrabove, Ukraine. (photo: Dmitry Lovetsky/AP)
A man walks past a piece of the crashed Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 near the village of Hrabove, Ukraine. (photo: Dmitry Lovetsky/AP)

Flight 17 Shoot-Down Scenario Shifts

By Robert Parry, Consortium News

04 August 14


ontrary to the Obama administration’s public claims blaming eastern Ukrainian rebels and Russia for the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, some U.S. intelligence analysts have concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault and that it appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame, according to a source briefed on these findings.

This judgment – at odds with what President Barack Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry have expressed publicly – is based largely on the absence of U.S. government evidence that Russia supplied the rebels with a Buk anti-aircraft missile system that would be needed to hit a civilian jetliner flying at 33,000 feet, said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Despite U.S. spy satellites positioned over eastern Ukraine, U.S. intelligence agencies have released no images of a Buk system being transferred by Russians to rebel control, shipped into Ukraine, deployed into firing position and then being taken back to Russia. Though the Obama administration has released other images of Ukraine taken by U.S. spy satellites, the absence of any photos of a rebel-controlled Buk missile battery has been the dog not barking in the strident case that Official Washington has made in blaming the rebels and Russia for the July 17 shoot-down that killed 298 people.

Given the size of these missile batteries – containing four 16-foot-long missiles – the absence of this evidence prompted caution among U.S. intelligence analysts even as senior U.S. officials and the U.S. mainstream media rushed to judgment blaming the rebels and Russians.

In making that case, Kerry and other senior officials relied on claims made by the Ukrainian government along with items posted on “social media.” These snippets of “evidence” included ambiguous remarks attributed to rebels who may have initially thought the shoot-down was another of their successful attacks on lower-flying Ukrainian military aircraft but who later insisted that they had not fired on the Malaysian plane and lacked the longer-range Buk missiles needed to reach above 30,000 feet.

If the U.S. intelligence analysts are correct – that the rebels and Russia are likely not responsible – the chief remaining suspect would be the Ukrainian government, which does possess Buk anti-aircraft missiles and reportedly had two fighter jets in the vicinity of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 at the time of the shoot-down.

Some independent analyses of the initial evidence from the crash site suggest the jetliner may have been destroyed by an air-to-air attack, not by an anti-aircraft missile fired from the ground. Yet, the working hypothesis of the U.S. intelligence analysts is that a Ukrainian military Buk battery and the jetfighters may have been operating in collusion as they hunted what they thought was a Russian airliner, possibly even the plane carrying President Vladimir Putin on a return trip from South America, the source said.

The source added that the U.S. intelligence analysis does not implicate top Ukrainian officials, such as President Petro Poroshenko or Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, suggesting that the attack may have been the work of more extremist factions, possibly even one of the Ukrainian oligarchs who have taken an aggressive approach toward prosecuting the war against the ethnic Russian rebels in the east.

Obviously, a successful shoot-down of a Russian plane, especially one carrying Putin, could have been a major coup for the Kiev regime, which ousted Russian ally, President Viktor Yanukovych, last February touching off the civil war. Some prominent Ukrainian politicians, such as ex-Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, have expressed the desire to kill Putin.

“It’s about time we grab our guns and kill, go kill those damn Russians together with their leader,” Tymoshenko said in an intercepted phone call in March, according to a leak published in the Russian press and implicitly confirmed by Tymoshenko.

The Shoot-Down Mystery

The Malaysia Airlines plane, flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, was not expected to be over the eastern part of Ukraine on the afternoon of July 17, but was rerouted to avoid bad weather. The plane was nearing Russian airspace when it was shot down.

Some early speculation had been that the Ukrainian military might have mistaken the plane for a Russian spy plane and attacked it in a scenario similar to the Soviet shoot-down of Korean Airlines Flight 007 in 1983 after misidentifying it as a U.S. spy plane.

In the two-plus weeks since the Ukrainian air disaster, there have been notable gaps between the more measured approach taken by U.S. intelligence analysts and the U.S. politicians and media personalities who quickly rushed to the judgment blaming the rebels and Russia.

Only three days after the crash, Secretary of State Kerry did the rounds of the Sunday talk shows making what he deemed an “extraordinary circumstantial” case supposedly proving that the rebels carried out the shoot-down with missiles provided by Russia. He acknowledged that the U.S. government was “not drawing the final conclusion here, but there is a lot that points at the need for Russia to be responsible.”

By then, I was already being told that the U.S. intelligence community lacked any satellite imagery supporting Kerry’s allegations and that the only Buk missile system in that part of Ukraine appeared to be under the control of the Ukrainian military. [See’s “What Did US Spy Satellites See in Ukraine?”]

On the Tuesday after Kerry’s Sunday declarations, mainstream journalists, including for the Los Angeles Times and the Washington Post, were given a senior-level briefing about the U.S. intelligence information that supposedly pointed the finger of blame at the rebels and Russia. But, again, much of the “evidence” was derived from postings on “social media.”

The Los Angeles Times article on the briefing took note of the uncertainties: “U.S. intelligence agencies have so far been unable to determine the nationalities or identities of the crew that launched the missile. U.S. officials said it was possible the SA-11 [the Buk anti-aircraft missile] was launched by a defector from the Ukrainian military who was trained to use similar missile systems.”

That reference to a possible “defector” may have been an attempt to reconcile the U.S. government’s narrative with the still-unreleased satellite imagery of the missile battery controlled by soldiers appearing to wear Ukrainian uniforms. But I’m now told that U.S. intelligence analysts have largely dismissed the “defector” possibility and are concentrating on the scenario of a willful Ukrainian shoot-down of the plane, albeit possibly not knowing its actual identity.

A Hardened Conventional Wisdom

Nevertheless, even as the mystery of who shot down Flight 17 deepened, the U.S. conventional wisdom blaming Putin and the rebels hardened. The New York Times has reported Russia’s culpability in the airline disaster as flat-fact.

On July 29, Obama prefaced his announcement of tougher sanctions against Russia by implicitly blaming Putin for the tragedy, too. Reading a prepared statement, Obama said: “In the Netherlands, Malaysia, Australia, and countries around the world, families are still in shock over the sudden and tragic loss of nearly 300 loved ones senselessly killed when their civilian airliner was shot down over territory controlled by Russian-backed separatists in Ukraine.  …

“Since the shoot-down, however, Russia and its proxies in Ukraine have failed to cooperate with the investigation and to take the opportunity to pursue a diplomatic solution to the conflict in Ukraine. These Russian-backed separatists have continued to interfere in the crash investigation and to tamper with the evidence. They have continued to shoot down Ukrainian aircraft in the region. And because of their actions, scores of Ukrainian civilians continue to die needlessly every day.” [Emphasis added.]

Though one could argue that Obama was rhetorically tip-toeing around a direct accusation that the rebels and Russia were responsible for the Malaysia Airlines shoot-down, his intent clearly was to leave that impression. In other words, Obama was pandering to the conventional wisdom about Russian guilt and was misleading the American people about what the latest U.S. intelligence may suggest.

It’s also grotesquely deceptive to blame the Russians and the rebels for the indiscriminate shelling by government forces that have claimed hundreds of lives in eastern Ukraine. The rebels have been resisting what they regard as an illegitimate coup regime that, with the aid of neo-Nazi militias from western Ukraine, overthrew elected President Yanukovych in February and then moved to marginalize and suppress the ethnic Russian population in the east.

By presenting the conflict in a one-sided way, Obama not only misled Americans about the origins of the Ukraine crisis but, in effect, gave the Kiev regime a green light to slaughter more ethnic Russians. By pointing the finger of blame at Moscow for all the troubles of Ukraine, Obama has created more geopolitical space for Kiev to expand its brutal onslaught that now has included reported use of poorly targeted ballistic missiles against population centers.

Obama’s covering for the Kiev regime is even more outrageous if the U.S. intelligence analysts are right to suspect that Ukrainian forces were behind the Flight 17 shoot-down.

And as for who’s been responsible for destroying evidence of the Flight 17 shoot-down, an assault by the Ukrainian military on the area where the plane crashed not only delayed access by international investigators but appears to have touched off a fire that consumed plane debris that could have helped identify the reasons for the disaster.

On Saturday, the last paragraph of a New York Times story by Andrew E. Kramer reported that “the fighting ignited a fire in a wheat field that burned over fuselage fragments, including one that was potentially relevant to the crash investigation because it had what appeared to be shrapnel holes.” The shrapnel holes have been cited by independent analysts as possible evidence of an attack by Ukrainian jetfighters.

Accepting Reality

Yet, given how far the U.S. political/media establishment has gone in its Flight 17 judgment pinning the blame on the rebels and Russia even before an official investigation was started, it’s not clear how those power-brokers would respond if the emerging analysis fingering Ukrainian forces turns out to be correct.

The embarrassment to high-level U.S. officials and prominent mainstream U.S. news outlets would be so extreme that it is hard to believe that the reality would ever be acknowledged.  Indeed, there surely will be intense pressure on airline investigators and intelligence analysts to endorse the Putin-is-to-blame narrative.

And, if the investigators and analysts won’t go that far, they might at least avoid a direct contradiction of the conventional wisdom by suggesting that the Flight 17 mystery remains unsolved, something for historians to unravel.

Such has been the pattern in other cases of major mainstream mistakes. For instance, last year, some of the same players, including Secretary Kerry and the New York Times, jumped to conclusions blaming the Syrian government for an Aug. 21 sarin gas attack that killed hundreds of people in a Damascus suburb.

On Aug. 30, Kerry gave a bellicose speech filled with “we knows” but providing no verifiable evidence. A punitive U.S. bombing campaign against the Syrian government was averted at the last minute when President Obama decided to first seek congressional approval and then accepted President Putin’s assistance in working out a deal in which the Syrian government surrendered all its chemical weapons while still denying a role in the Aug. 21 incident.

Only later did much of Kerry’s case fall apart as new evidence pointed to an alternative explanation, that extremist Syrian rebels released the sarin as a provocation to push Obama across his “red line” and into committing the U.S. military to the Syrian civil war on the side of the rebels. But neither U.S. officialdom nor the mainstream U.S. press has acknowledged the dangerous “group think” that almost got the United States into another unnecessary war in the Middle East. [See’s “The Collapsing Syria-Sarin Case.”]

It may seem cynical to suggest that the powers-that-be in Official Washington are so caught up in their own propaganda that they would prefer the actual killers of innocent people – whether in Syria or Ukraine – to go unpunished, rather than to admit their own mistakes. But that is often how the powerful react. Nothing is more important than their reputations. your social media marketing partner


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We too were alarmed at the patterns we were, and still are, seeing. It is clear that the provocateurs are far more savvy, disciplined, and purposeful than anything we have ever experienced before.

It is also clear that we still have elements of the same activity in our article discussion forums at this time.

We have hosted and encouraged reader expression since the turn of the century. The comments of our readers are the most vibrant, best-used interactive feature at Reader Supported News. Accordingly, we are strongly resistant to interrupting those services.

It is, however, important to note that in all likelihood hardened operatives are attempting to shape the dialog our community seeks to engage in.

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Founder, Reader Supported News

+43 # cmp 2014-08-04 14:01
~~~ "... rather than to admit their own mistakes. But that is often how the powerful react. Nothing is more important than their reputations." ~~~

Their Reputations??? Really??? I mean, I'm wondering, on just how long it will take for half of America's Registered Voters to be Registered as "No Party Affiliation" or Independent... We're almost there.. Here in AZ, Independents will be the #1 Registered voting block very soon..

But, I do know this, that with all of these US involved conflicts and wars, (since ww2, at least) the lowest common denominator is always, "who owns the banks.."
+18 # futhark 2014-08-04 18:10
One of your most powerful strategies to force policy change in the government of the United States is to change your voter registration from one of the two "major" parties to independent, Green, Libertarian, or whatever you think fits your concept of what government policy should be. With eroding registration figures, one can hope that some of the party leaders will start asking why there are so many defections. Party discipline is a tool of tyrants.
+14 # cmp 2014-08-04 18:47
Great Point! The real Progressive era's that are of our past all had tremendous 3rd Party (or more) influences.

You know darn well, that all of those who will dare to "speak the truth" deserve our respect and support.

Last cycle, I volunteered for both Jill & Rocky down here. And conversely, within the major Party, I was honored to volunteer with Dennis for several of his Campaigns.
+45 # wrknight 2014-08-04 14:48
Hell, none of those fools ever admitted they were wrong about the "weapons of mass destruction" that was used to justify the Iraq war. If they weren't wrong then, how could they be wrong now?

Face it. Admitting you are wrong doesn't sell newspapers.
+34 # riverhouse 2014-08-04 14:58
It is the habit of America to jump to assign blame where it is most handy for America. The government wanted a fight with Putin so Russia was assigned the blame because that facilitated a fight with Russia. When the government wanted a substantial back up for the huge taxpayer dollars American workers are required to send to Israel each year decade after decade, the handy blame recipient is, of course, the Palestinians. It doesn't really matter to government what the truth of the matter is. They just twist and turn it to fit the government's needs at the moment.
+35 # Anonymot 2014-08-04 15:55
Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.
George Orwell

The truth doesn't stop politicians from saying the contrary.
+19 # tedrey 2014-08-04 16:35
Not all slips are Freudian, but when we read that Kerry says that "there is a lot that points at the NEED for Russia to be responsible” one has to wonder.
+24 # Floridatexan 2014-08-04 19:25
I don't believe that Obama wanted to pick a fight with fact, I though US/Russia relations were better than they've been for decades. This reeks of neocon interference.
+33 # PABLO DIABLO 2014-08-04 16:03
Get the neocons out of "our" government. They and their corporate sponsors make money off of war and WE pay.
+10 # vt143 2014-08-04 16:09
Make the story fit the plan.
+10 # Douglas Jack 2014-08-04 16:33
One can reasonably expect that given a (Obama's) call for bombing, invasion & war "when one crosses a red line" then considering just 3 examples out of 100s of USA False Flags:

1. George W Bush executed the bombing of Iraq with loss of 2.7 million Iraqi Deaths on the 10th Anniversary Of US Iraq Invasion. Dr Gideon Polya 20 March, 2013

2. Obama calling for the bombing or Syria over such false evidence that; it turns out it was USA supported AlCIAda mercenaries who carried this out

3. Obama & Kerry indignant over the shooting down of MH17, which evidence is pointing to USA involvement again,

then given this rationale should the USA submit to be bombed, perhaps for 250 years, given a string of murderous lies going back to before its usurping of 1st Nation Sovereignty? Is it too late to restore language & integrity?
+31 # MsAnnaNOLA 2014-08-04 16:46
Russ Baker has some interesting analysis:

The article claims without attribution that the plane was diverted due to weather. The recordings of the exchanges between the plane and air traffic control have not been released so as of now we don't know why the course of this plane was changed so erratically. Twice. (Because the course changed twice.)

We as a population should be very suspicious when there is a rush to judgement. Particularly in cases such as this where the stakes are so high. As in we risk a nuclear war by antagonizing Russia. When ever there has been a rush to judgment it always is found later that it is a cover up of some sort. It usually means there will be no proper investigation. We should demand accountability as in a true investigation but also demand that our Constitution be honored. We should not accept another war that is started unilaterally by our government. We have far too much to lose and so does the rest of the world.
+12 # samjcr 2014-08-04 16:55
Right on! Good onya, mate
+8 # Khidr 2014-08-05 11:02
Throw all the Neo Cons, Dual Citizens out of State Department..... ........
+9 # MsAnnaNOLA 2014-08-04 17:05
Article with a photo of the cockpit debris. One pilot has examined this photo and thinks it looks like it was hit with plane to plane type of fire including machine gun fire. This photo will not be found on Google but this article is attributing the photograph to Reuters.

Link to the analysis:
+5 # Douglas Jack 2014-08-04 18:17
Thanks MsAnnaNOLA, Such an excellent picture & article describing bullet, shrapnel & missile markings as well as proposing probable cause.

Ukrainian politicians, such as ex-Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, have expressed the desire to kill Putin.

“It’s about time we grab our guns and kill, go kill those damn Russians together with their leader,” Tymoshenko said in an intercepted phone call in March, according to a leak published in the Russian press and implicitly confirmed by Tymoshenko.

The Ukrainian flight-control forced diversion of the plane down to the fatal 10,000 metre altitude, flight-control' s knowledge of Putin's flight path, the ability of the Ukrainian fighter-plane SU-25 to fly at 10,000 metres (33,000 feet). Too bad the eastern Ukraine sovereigntists turned over the 'Black-box' to British flight investigators. The British being NAZI in geopolitical & economic world-control lockstep with USA, Canada & NATO aren't trustworthy independent bodies.
+8 # gwenyo 2014-08-04 17:20
Bad outcome no matter who was at fault. If there wasn't conflict in the region at the time this wouldn't be an issue. Why is this going on? Power struggle for energy.
+3 # Saberoff 2014-08-04 17:26
You could substitute the words "United States" for the word "Kiev" here:

"Obviously, a successful shoot-down of a Russian plane, especially one carrying Putin, could have been a major coup for the Kiev regime, which ousted Russian ally, President Viktor Yanukovych, last February touching off the civil war."

Big Daddy doesn't like it when P O and that Putin guy shake their sweaty little mitts, high-five, smile and what! agree.

But too bad Sweaty Little O falls from grace sooo easily.
-15 # 2014-08-04 17:38
I have seen video of the probable BUK vehicle (with two warheads visibly missing from its arsenal of four warheads) being hustled over the border from separatist controlled territory back to Russia within a couple of days after the flight was shot down. We also had the social media boast of the Russian commander who shot the plane down. There is more evidence too but too little space to put it into a comment here.

It does no good to try to obscure the rather obvious facts in this case.

None of this means we should be intervening on the part of the nationalists (who are corrupt, lying, crony capitalists) but we don't need news articles make the situation murkier.

Lee Nason
New Bedford
+4 # Radscal 2014-08-05 09:16
The short video of the transport has been analyzed by people who identified the location of the filming. It was in Ukraine government-cont rolled area. The billboard visible is an ad for an auto dealer in government-cont rolled land also.
0 # crispy 2014-08-06 10:57
YES Radscal, this is also my understanding.
A street in the background was apparently identified. It was in Ukraine. Don't remember who controlled the area.
0 # economagic 2014-08-07 09:49
"we don't need news articles make the situation murkier."

Agreed, but we do need news articles to make clear that the situation is murky, contrary to claims of partisans on both (all?) sides in all countries.
+3 # 2014-08-04 17:48
So what's new? US Plutocrats & Oligarch don't want Obama so embarrass him is good. They don't want Russia, or their Ukraine friends wanting Russia union, so first blame Putin. If not they don't want Ukraine legal Government so blame him. Just so only USA buddies the independence rebel faction are not guilty of attack on MH 17.

An Independent Ukraine Government is a chance for USA domination and one more member of USA New World Yankee Order. And Oil sources of course.
-9 # Unicorn144 2014-08-04 18:46
Igor Strelkov admitted his forces shot down the jet...and he published his boasts online...along with the video of the plane burning on the ground....all this verbiage is total BS and white-washed Russian d then some.....I have all the documentation: better make sure no one finds all the stuff he and other Russians posted before they found out they shot down a passenger jet.....puleeee ese!!!
0 # crispy 2014-08-06 11:01
Unicorn144 can U post a link??
+1 # crispy 2014-08-06 11:32
Unicorn I have no idea where U got your info but U are wrong:
I just read the transcript where he says he would not know how to do it and when asked about his soldiers he said he did not have the kut missile so he could not give any order. read it here:
0 # crispy 2014-08-06 11:47
Maybe you got your info here unicorn

I'm not sure what to believe, he later denied doing it... They had not missiles to do it...
+1 # karenvista 2014-08-06 14:15
Quoting crispy:
Maybe you got your info here unicorn

I'm not sure what to believe, he later denied doing it... They had not missiles to do it...

That audio came from a cell phone video with still pictures that were copied from an earlier Ukrainian Govt. posting at least a week before.

The audio setting up the rebels has a time and date stamp that proves it was created the day before the crash. Therefore it is debunked.
0 # crispy 2014-08-07 05:57
To Karenvista: "a day before the crash"?? then they must have been talking about another crash...
why then do they mention non military findings on the site?
I am still confused...
+1 # crispy 2014-08-07 06:11
I went back to the audio setting and is stamped July 17th (1720) which is the day of the crash, not a day earlier. It sounds legit... Sorry Karenvista.
Still the rebels could have been wrong to claim the downing.
I agree that a shot from Ukrainian planes is possible
+7 # geraldom 2014-08-04 19:14
All of this really doesn't matter as long as the U.S. wins in the end. The U.S. government cares only about the loss of human life when it can be used to their advantage.

As far as the Ukraine is concerned, the U.S. instigated and supported the coup d'etat that overthrew a democratically- elected president, Viktor Yanukovych. By doing so, it was able to successfully take complete control of Ukraine without actually having to invade the country. It cemented this control by succeeding in inserting Petro Poroshenko as president and Arseniy Yatsenyuk as PM, both U.S. puppets who take their marching orders from the U.S. government.

If the Ukraine military brought MH17 down whether by a ground-to-air missile or by a Ukrainian fighter jet, and MH17 was redirected to fly directly over the war zone by Ukraine Flight Controllers as well as being instructed to reduce its altitude down to 33000 feet, this had to have been a well designed plan at the highest levels of the Kiev government with the knowledge and the backing of the U.S. government in order to create a false-flag event to further justify the continued attacks in eastern Ukraine and the slaughter of innocent civilians, men, women, and children. Over 2000 civilians have died in Donetsk and Lugansk alone as a result of the Ukraine military shelling civilian targets, and no one, not the U.N., not the HRC, no one has yet to condemn the Ukraine military for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

+4 # geraldom 2014-08-04 19:14

The Ukraine military is even shelling areas across the border in Russia, hitting checkpoints and civilian homes, and Putin hasn't even taken any steps to stop this. I wonder why? What does the U.S. have over his head?
+2 # Activista 2014-08-04 22:09
"All of this really doesn't matter as long as the U.S. wins in the end."..
Kiev ‘gave up on us’: Ukrainian commander tells why 400 troops escaped into Russia ..
Kiev or US is not winning in Easter Ukraine ..
+1 # geraldom 2014-08-05 14:37
Activista, I have to vehemently disagree with you. For the longest time, even before Kiev sent in the Ukraine military to crush the pro-Russian movement in eastern Ukraine, you have persistently supported Putin's lack of action to protect the people of eastern Ukraine who wanted nothing to do with the new illegal and illegitimate govt in Kiev. You persistently state that Putin knows what he’s doing and that all will turn out alright in the end.

I would first like to ask you a question. How much do you value innocent human life? How much do you value the lives of children, especially young children and babies? Children who have no idea as to what’s going on around them and who are constantly afraid? Children who have lost at least one of their parents in the illegal attacks on civilian areas in eastern Ukraine by the Ukraine military, or both parents and who have now been orphaned? Or perhaps parents who have lost their child or their children, even babies as a result of the illegal attacks by the Ukraine military on civilian targets?

+1 # geraldom 2014-08-05 14:37

In any case, let’s see how all of this has worked out:

o Between Slavyansk, Mariupol, Kramatorsk, Donetsk and Lugansk and other cities and towns in eastern Ukraine, ever since the Kiev govt launched its attack on eastern Ukraine, how many innocent civilians have been slaughtered as a result of the illegal attacks (and let’s not forget Odessa in southern Ukraine)? Perhaps 4000 people or maybe 5000 people or perhaps more? All because Putin refused to send in the Russian military early on in order to prevent what was totally predictable, especially with the backing of the U.S., and Putin all but telling Kiev that it was perfectly safe to do so.

o By supporting the pro-Russian rebels using half-measures by supplying them with some lethal weaponry and an inadequate number of volunteers and nothing more, he gave them just enough rope to hang themselves but not enough to prevent the massive slaughter of civilians or to allow them to take the battle to Kiev itself. Kiev never had to worry about defending western Ukraine from pro-Russian rebels, and therefore was free to send in most of their military into eastern Ukraine. You can’t win a war that way, or maintain the status quo, that is keeping the Ukraine military at bay where they are unable to move against eastern Ukraine. In a war of attrition which this has been from the start, the pro-Russian rebels had no chance of winning without direct intervention by the Russian military.

+1 # geraldom 2014-08-05 14:38

o By holding back helping the pro-Russian rebels in a way that would have prevented this mess in eastern Ukraine in the first place, has that really helped Putin any in the eyes of the U.S. and its puppet allies in Europe? Has it prevented them from increasing the economic sanctions being pressed against Putin and Russia? No, it hasn’t!!

o As far as the number of Ukrainian soldiers deserting the Ukraine military and crossing into Russia, those are small potatoes compared to the number of Ukrainian soldiers who are still left attacking Donetsk and Lugansk, two regions that are about to be completely absorbed by Kiev. The Ukrainian soldiers are on the very outskirts of the cities of Donestsk and Lugansk, closing in on the pro-Russian forces.

o All I keep on hearing from some people is that Putin is going to end up winning in the end because the U.S. is going to bankrupt itself with all of the money it is spending on wars, and that Ukraine is on the verge of bankruptcy. But the U.S. dollar is still king as the reserve currency of the world, and the U.S. has the legal right to print all the money it needs to run its operations, and any perceived threat of bankruptcy by the Kiev govt doesn’t appear to stop their apparent successful effort to crush the pro-Russian rebels movement in the east.

+2 # geraldom 2014-08-05 14:38

In conclusion, Activista, Putin has been painted into a corner. His two choices are to walk away from eastern Ukraine and hand the region over to Kiev, meaning to the United States, or he can still send in the Russian military as he should’ve done in the first place to push the Ukrainian military back to Kiev and to create a Russian military shield around Slavyansk, Donetsk and Lugansk which will stop all of this madness in its tracks. It doesn’t matter what he does. The U.S. and the EU and other U.S. puppet allies throughout the world, like what Japan just did today in adding its two-cents in issuing sanctions against Russia, will continue attempting to punish Russia.
+4 # Activista 2014-08-05 21:04
Russia economy is stable, USA is NOT. Western Ukraine does not like Russians, East does. USA wants rescue pathetic NATO - with Putin invading East Ukraine Putin would help USA, give NATO the reason for existence.
These sanctions against Russia are useless and stupid - but Obama must play NEOCON politics. Kiev junta is disintegrating - everybody knows it, USA is loosing its face - especially now supporting Israeli war crimes in Gaza. World is changing fast.
+2 # geraldom 2014-08-05 23:40
Was all of this worth the lives of somewhere around 3000 to 5000 innocent civilian victims murdered by the Ukraine military, and who knows how many wounded, not to mention the displacement of hundreds of thousands of people in eastern Ukraine?

And, what happens when the Ukraine military finally crushes the pro-Russian movement in the east (which looks like it can happen at anytime with additional innocent lives being lost) giving control of all of Ukraine (minus Crimea of course) to the illegitimate government in Kiev which really means giving control of all of Ukraine to the United States and NATO.

We all know what will happen next, Activista. Eventually, the United States and NATO will be setting up military bases in Ukraine, probably very close to the Russian border.

So, please tell me what Putin will have gained in all of this by acting the part of the nice guy? It doesn't seem to matter what Putin does because whatever happens it will always be Putin's fault

The United States will not go bankrupt, at least not anytime soon, and they will support the U.S. puppet government in Kiev with as many U.S. dollars as it takes to prop up the illegal Ukraine government using America's printing presses.
+13 # CorporatistNation 2014-08-04 20:23
It would be wise to reiterate to the idiots in charge in D.C. the very simple fact that schoolyard level international conflict can inadvertently result in turning this planet into Mars in less than 45 minutes.
+8 # tomslockett 2014-08-04 20:24
Like at least one of the previous posters to this article, I also absolutely saw footage of what was purported to be the mobile BUK missile battery that shot down MH17 with two missing missiles en route across the border on a return trip from Ukraine to Russia. It was a CNN news story with Wolf Blitzer. Did anyone see this footage on any other network? Is it possible that it was file footage unrelated to MH17 and CNN misrepresented it? Did CNN check whether it had been tampered with, validate its legitimacy and authenticity, receive the information from a reliable source, and what was the source? Given the lack of satellite information, specificity of Secretary Kerry, President Obama, and U.S. intelligence sources reported in this article, these are certainly valid questions to which answers exist. CNN has an ethical obligation to answer them thoroughly and forthrightly, have the information scrutinized by it's internal ombuds/fact-che ck process and offer the raw data transparently for outside analysis.
+4 # tomslockett 2014-08-04 20:41
60 minutes should do an investigative report on this. Can there be any doubt that viewer interest on this topic would be exceptional? For that matter it has all the elements for an academy award winning movie.
+8 # Activista 2014-08-04 22:17
"The Ukraine crisis is just one pretexts being used by NATO to create tensions with Russia as the alliance seeks a reason to exist, Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said. As NATO expands, it tries “to drive” all Europeans under its “roof,” he said."
NATO is relic of last cold war - USA tries to recreate Cold War II and save NATO from extinction ... this is Ukraine all about ..
+7 # speedboy 2014-08-04 23:35
The silence regarding this atrocity in our MSM is deafening. Obviously this was a rush to judgment by our imperialists who will stop at nothing in their attempts to have Putin discredited or overthrown.
-3 # Fraenkel.1 2014-08-05 08:59
If the Russians and their sidekicks didn't do it why did they keep out the Dutch investigators? Why was there tampering at the site? There were intercepted phone calls from separatist officers admitting to the shoot down. Russia has all the surveillance they need over Ukraine to figure out that Ukraine did the shoot down. They had nothing to say about it. Sounded semi guilty. You and your readers seem all to ready to jump into the latest theory. Ukraine has always been a mess. Center of bigotry and hatred. Ukrainians guarded concentration camps and killed for the Germans. Soviets and Nazis killed millions of Ukrainians. Not much difference between the two sides. Can't imagine why the Russians want to be involved. Funny about Malaysian Airlines, They can't find a huge plane or how the other one got shot down or whose missiles were they? Disappearing missile battery? Sooner or later someone will write a book about this. Meanwhile look out for the movie. Who shot Kennedy?
+6 # Salus Populi 2014-08-05 14:38
If the administration had credible evidence that the Russians had delivered a BUK missile to the resistance, they would certainly have "leaked" it to the major news media in order to capitalize on anti-Russian sentiment and promote hysteria. That is so elementary as to need no explanation, at least to anyone still capable of independent thought and analysis.

So, since the U.S. has satellites stationed above the border that can read a license plat, why has no picture or video been released [discounting the phony one with the billboard, propagated by the Neo-Nazi infested Ukraine coup government]?

Especially given the fact that the U.S. was staging naval war games in the Black Sea at the very time that MH17 was being downed; it begs credulity to pretend that in such circumstances the stationary satellites and the surveillance planes "missed" a giant truck carrying missiles, as well as the firing of said missiles at the plane.

In this case, "absence of evidence *is* evidence of absence."
-1 # Fraenkel.1 2014-08-05 09:02
Sorry "two sides above" I meant Ukrainian sides.
+1 # Pipester 2014-08-05 09:13
Let's see, according to Parry, " appears Ukrainian government forces were to blame, according to a source briefed on these findings." And from that intro, the rest of the article proceeds. I'm beginning to think the left conspiracy theorists are as crazy as the right wing kooks.
+5 # Salus Populi 2014-08-05 14:44
The two Ukraine government jets that were detected flying right next to the airliner is tangible evidence; so are the shrapnel holes in the cockpit skin of the wreckage.

And if you simply discount everything that Parry says on the grounds that it is speculative, why treat the Official Obama/Kerry Theory any differently? Especially since, unlike the scenario offered by the "crazy" left "conspiracy theorists," the U.S. government has presented, as I noted in my immediately preceding post, NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER.
+8 # Archie1954 2014-08-05 13:34
Washington is no longer trusted no matter what it says. Only the ignorant and gullible American public will believe the President or Secretary of State. No one else does!
+1 # Skeeziks 2014-08-05 17:24
I've been saying this quite awhile, like since Bush went into Iraq that we ought to ask for the fork. We're finished
0 # Skeeziks 2014-08-05 17:22
On those missiles...Didn 't the press show videos of a BUK vehicle that usually carries 4 missiles, but the one in the video shows only 3 missiles with one rack empty? Or was that a set up too?
+4 # Activista 2014-08-05 21:08
"Didn't the press show videos of a BUK vehicle that usually carries 4 missiles, but the one in the video shows only 3 missiles "
CIA has whole catalog of images of BUK systems ... available for war propaganda.
+2 # RMDC 2014-08-06 10:15
The story of flight MH 17 shows precisely how the propaganda system in the US works. Somethign happens in the world and the US regime immediatley seizes control of the narrative and puts out innumerable lies in order to construct a useful narrative -- one that supports US regime positions and defames US enemies. The lies can really be wild and beyond belief. That does not matter. the mainstream media reports this fabricated narrative with hysteria of a raving lunatic.

The American people suck up the fabricated narrative and repeat it with true religious fervor. This goes on for a week or two and then the story dies down and the US regime moves on to something else. The truth eventually comes out but no one is paying attention. they've moved on to the next hysterical fabrication.

No event in the world really matters to the people of fantasyland as the US now is. It is the United States of Hysteria. Hedges new article on Israeli lies show how it is done by the Israelis, but they only learned from the Americans.
-4 # tgemberl 2014-08-06 13:56
"The source added that the U.S. intelligence analysis does not implicate top Ukrainian officials, such as President Petro Poroshenko or Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, suggesting that the attack may have been the work of more extremist factions, possibly even one of the Ukrainian oligarchs who have taken an aggressive approach toward prosecuting the war against the ethnic Russian rebels in the east."

I have always thought that whichever side caused the crash, it was a probably a mistake. Someone who wasn't well enough trained to recognize targets fired on the plane. It's interesting that Parry still wants to believe it was the work of someone really "evil."

In any war zone, there's probably a greater chance of things going wrong. It was a mistake for airlines to fly through the area.

Even if the Ukrainian military shot down the plane, I don't think that invalidates their effort to defeat the separatists. It doesn't prove the Ukrainian army is inherently evil.
+1 # crispy 2014-08-07 05:59
you make a VERY good point about things going wrong in a war zone. I agree.

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