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Greenwald writes: "As I've written many times before, 'terrorism' is, and from the start was designed to be, almost entirely devoid of discernible meaning. It's a fear-mongering slogan, lacking any consistent application, intended to end rational debate and justify virtually any conduct by those who apply the term."

Glenn Greenwald. (photo: Salon)
Glenn Greenwald. (photo: Salon)


Terrorism in the Israeli Attack on Gaza

By Glenn Greenwald, The Intercept

29 July 14

 

s I’ve written many times before, “terrorism” is, and from the start was designed to be, almost entirely devoid of discernible meaning. It’s a fear-mongering slogan, lacking any consistent application, intended to end rational debate and justify virtually any conduct by those who apply the term. But to the extent it means anything beyond that, it typically refers to the killing of civilians as a means of furthering political or military goals.

Below are two charts reflecting the deaths of civilians, soldiers and “militants” in both Gaza and Israel since the July 8 Israeli attack began. The statistics used are unduly generous toward Israel, since “militants” in Gaza are often nothing more than residents who take up arms to defend their homes against an invading and occupying army. Even with that generous interpretation, these numbers, standing alone, tell a powerful story:

If you landed on earth from another planet this week, knowing nothing other than the most common use of the word “terrorism,” which side do you think would most frequently be referred to as “terrorists”?

Often, the most vivid illustration of the criminality of this attack comes not from data but from isolated stories. Yesterday, for instance, “in Khan Younis, five members of the Najjar family, which lost 21 people in a previous strike, were killed.” Meanwhile, “in the Al Bureij refugee camp in central Gaza, an airstrike from an F-16 killed the mayor, Anis Abu Shamala, and four others in his home, some of whom had taken refuge there from intense artillery shelling nearby.”

At the same time, the Israeli government’s messaging machine quickly switched from hyping rocket attacks, which were causing relatively little damage, to featuring what it began calling “terror tunnels”. The U.S. media dutifully followed suit, with CNN anchor (and former AIPAC employee) Wolf Blitzer touring a “terror tunnel” led around by the IDF and his flashlight, while the New York Times’ Jodi Rudoren did the same in an article headlined “Tunnels Lead Right to the Heart of Israeli Fear,” quoting “Israeli military officials”, “an Israeli military spokesman”, and “Israeli experts”. But a separate article in the NYT highlighted how these “terror tunnels” are actually used:

The strikes during the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Fitr came after the latest humanitarian halt to hostilities was punctured by attacks on both sides, culminating in the most deadly incursion yet by Palestinian militants through an underground tunnel from Gaza into Israel.

Colonel Lerner said Tuesday that between four and eight gunmen had burst from the tunnel near a military watchtower near the border and killed five soldiers in an adjacent building with antitank missiles.

In American media discourse, when Palestinians overwhelmingly kill soldiers (95% of the Israeli death toll) who are part of an army that is blockading, occupying, invading, and indiscriminately bombing them and killing their children by the hundreds, that is “terrorism”; when Israelis use massive, brutal force against a trapped civilian population, overwhelmingly killing innocent men, women and children (at least 75% of the Palestinian death toll), with clear intentions to kill civilians (see point 3), that is noble “self-defense.” That demonstrates how skewed U.S. discourse is in favor of Israel, as well as the purely manipulative, propagandistic nature of the term “terrorists.”

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-158 # brux 2014-07-29 12:56
The numbers do not begin to tell this story, and anyone who uses just the numbers is trying very hard NOT to acknowledge any other aspect to this conflict.
 
 
-161 # brux 2014-07-29 12:59
>> That demonstrates how skewed U.S. discourse is in favor of Israel, as well as the purely manipulative, propagandistic nature of the term “terrorists.”

Stick to the NSA and other aspects of economic democracy and quit this support of terrorism ... it makes what you do with Snowden and anything in a Progressive vein look sullied and disgusting. Is that your real job?
 
 
+101 # fenox 2014-07-29 14:14
Well Brux, you must be a paid by Aipec Israel fan.
On every article, one can find your outrageous opinions. Go to Israel if you like it, but leave normal concerned citizens to their democratic concerns.
 
 
+20 # ritawalpoleague 2014-07-30 04:15
Who knows who/what trolls like brux and the other minus makers are. Goodness knows, AIPAC has long been the biggest lobbying (buying off of pols. et. al.) around, and could very likely have bought trolls to b.s. us.

Could also be that they are the govt. agents involved in "The Secret Government Rulebook for Labeling You a Terrorist" (pull this up here on RSN).

Kudos to Glenn Greenwald. Hang in there, dear. Undoubtedly you, Glenn, the great journalist/trut hteller, have been labeled a 'terrorist' by the evil, greed and power addicted villainaires, our actual rulers.

Full of courage and determination and speaking/acting up and out we must be and do - HANG IN THERE we must.
 
 
+90 # oscar7 2014-07-29 14:26
brux: it seems to me that you didn't understand Greenwald: He IS against terrorism! That is, the real terrorism which is Israel's. He does NOT support terrorism!
 
 
-106 # The Buffalo Guy 2014-07-29 16:07
Quoting oscar7:
brux: it seems to me that you didn't understand Greenwald: He IS against terrorism! That is, the real terrorism which is Israel's. He does NOT support terrorism!

What Greenwald does not support is the USA. He's pro anything that opposes the USA and for me that starts with Snowden. I'd like to see him move to Moscow to be with his traitor buddy and his Russian friends.
 
 
+89 # Radscal 2014-07-29 16:15
Mark Twain defined patriotism as loving one's country always, and respecting its government when it deserves it.

I, and it appears Greenwald and Snowden agree with Twain.
 
 
-51 # brux 2014-07-29 22:52
The problem with Greenwald is that much of his support is from the wacko branch of the Progressive movement who is as crazy as the wacko branch of the TEA Party movement.

Greenwald has a lot of good stuff to say about human rights, privacy, but he is a complete ass on subjects like the Middle East ... and so is Noam Chomsky. But it's where they get their money from, so ?
 
 
+7 # Kwelinyingi 2014-07-30 08:21
You want Greenwald to go to Russia. What are you doing here in my country? There are more Jews residing outside than inside your peace-loving country, Israel. That must be for a reason.
 
 
-40 # brux 2014-07-29 22:49
I support almost everything Greenwald does except his pandering idiotic take on the Middle East.
 
 
+7 # Pikewich 2014-07-30 16:57
Brux is clearly trolling. It is not worth the effort to even reply.

He has eyes, but can not see.
He has ears but he can not hear.

I like this statement: "It is OK to have your own opinions, but it is not OK to have your own set of facts".
 
 
-8 # brux 2014-07-31 13:55
Even without eyes or ears I still have a brain and moral sense far superior to yours.
 
 
+91 # engelbach 2014-07-29 14:30
On the contrary, the numbers tell the story.

The killing of innocent people is a war crime. The more killed, the bigger the crime.

The fact that you think concern over the deaths of innocent people looks "sullied and disgusting" says more about you than about us.
 
 
-32 # brux 2014-07-29 22:54
I am just as concerned about innocent people as you are, probably a lot more because the only way they are going to be freed is by getting rid of Hamas - the sooner they kill off Hamas the shorter their wait for freedom will be and the fewer innocent people will die and the sooner peaces can come.
 
 
+32 # RnR 2014-07-29 23:12
so what was Israels' excuse before Hamas?
 
 
-10 # brux 2014-07-31 13:53
The PLO ... you really betray a gigantic ignorance by even asking that.
 
 
+12 # Pikewich 2014-07-30 17:00
freedom to go back to the starvation in the walled in open air prison called Gaza?

They have clearly had enough of your "freedom".
 
 
-6 # brux 2014-07-31 13:54
Not mine ... but they have never had freedom, they are held hostage by their own government.
 
 
+7 # LGNTexas 2014-08-01 15:53
In 1975 when I drove through Gaza every week to get to my job building IDF bases in the Sinai, only a small portion of the barbed wired fence and gun towers had been built around Gaza and there was an open border where thousands of Gazans FREELY commuted daily to jobs in Israel. Most worked in agriculture, service industries like janitorial, food service, maids, taxi drivers, etc. We Texans used to call Gazans the "Mexicans of Israel" doing work that Israelis would not do. Stopping to eat, fueling up, etc. in Gaza I was treated with hospitality, even more so when they would realize I was American. Due to the prison Gaza has become, their old jobs have been taken over by new workers, many illegally imported from Eastern Europe.
 
 
+9 # Pikewich 2014-07-30 16:59
That is because Brux is a racist. Clearly Israeli's (or Jews) are worth more as people than Arabs and Palestinians.
 
 
+64 # dsepeczi 2014-07-29 14:57
Quoting brux:
The numbers do not begin to tell this story, and anyone who uses just the numbers is trying very hard NOT to acknowledge any other aspect to this conflict.


Yes, ignore numbers aka facts and stick to narratives and ideology to support your view. Are you sure you're not a republican ?
 
 
-30 # brux 2014-07-29 22:57
I am absolutely sure I am not a Republican ... my views happen to coincide with Republicans and sane Democrats on the issue of Israel. I am a great believer in Western Civilization, and a great opponent of Islamic terrorism and barbarism.

I side with the girls in Afghanistan that want to be educated and do not want to raped and then blamed for it ... and if you agree then something must be done, you cannot just blabber about it.
 
 
+17 # Kwelinyingi 2014-07-30 08:24
Please tell us what the difference between the 2 parties on Israel. They both are a bunch of cowards and lack the balls to stand up to AIPAC that runs our ME foreign policy. Our taxes are being used to fund massacres of innocents and we don't like it.
 
 
-67 # The Buffalo Guy 2014-07-29 16:18
Quoting brux:
The numbers do not begin to tell this story, and anyone who uses just the numbers is trying very hard NOT to acknowledge any other aspect to this conflict.

Right on Brux. But you won't get people on this site to understand that self defense does not mean that you fight a losing battle. You destroy that which is trying to destroy you and there may be collateral damage, a very lousy sound bite. It's what makes understanding why Hamas refused the cease fire so dificult. Is their strategy to win by sympathy at the cost of Palestinian lives? Israel will continue until every rocket and tunnel is eliminated. Why isn't there any pressure on the Hamas leadership?
 
 
+39 # wrknight 2014-07-29 17:37
Right, Buffalo Guy. Self defense means you get to kill over a hundred of your enemies for every friend they kill; and everyone on that side is your enemy. (Like your bible says, 100 eyes for every eye and 100 teeth for every tooth.)

And speaking of destroying what is trying to destroy you, why not just destroy everything while you are at it.

You are on a roll, man!

PS Were you raised in Texas?
 
 
+7 # John S. Browne 2014-07-29 20:05
#

You folks do understand that I'm on the Palestinian's side, right? Did you misunderstand my following comment; or are the "down-votes" for my comment only coming from the pro-Zio-fascism shill-trolls?

#
 
 
-24 # brux 2014-07-29 22:59
> Self defense means you get to kill over a hundred of your enemies for every friend they kill;

It would not be very good defense if they lost more than they killed, and they would not be killing anyone if they were not being rocketed.

As I said, the numbers have nothing to do with the right and wrong of this situation.
 
 
+3 # Salus Populi 2014-08-01 16:21
Only problem with that claim is that, according to the Israeli intelligence site ITIC, the Israelis carried out 110 attacks on Gaza during the 19 months that Hamas observed the truce, and killed five Hamas members the night *before* Hamas was finally provoked into retaliating, giving the Israelis the excuse they had been aching for to go on their usual rampage.
 
 
+21 # John S. Browne 2014-07-29 19:15
#

The Israeli government and military can find the Israel-end of the tunnels and destroy them on the ground, without indiscriminatel y bombing civilian targets as they are doing, mass- murdering far more "collateral damage", aka innocent civilians, than alleged "combatants". You people are extremely sick "motherfrackers " who are the real supporters of terrorism, thereby making you actual terrorists yourselves as well. If all of you POS sickos were imprisoned, humanely, we would have True Peace in this world; and it is because of you that we don't. But, of course, the false, so-called "terrorists" are targeted and all of you Satanist inciters of real terrorism are allowed to roam free and to further incite the real terrorism and mass-murder. God save all of us from all of you completely brainwashed mass-murder and real terrorism ideologues, and may True Justice and accountability be brought and prevail against all of you sooner than later! Otherwise, our world is doomed at your extremely-evil, blood-soaked hands.

#
 
 
-30 # brux 2014-07-29 22:58
Anyone who is sane and who is exposed to the truth ... and the truth of this situation is not that hard to figure out ... will eventually realize they have been wrong on this subject and start to move over to the other side. It takes a while, but people all want peace and prosperity ... Hamas and radical Islam does not - so there is just no way to support that.
 
 
+14 # Pikewich 2014-07-30 17:03
No other group other than the Zionist apologists can get away with claiming that shooting fish in a barrel is "self defense".
 
 
-11 # pbbrodie 2014-07-29 20:11
Yes, you!
 
 
-20 # The Buffalo Guy 2014-07-29 22:55
Hey Brux! I'm impressed!!!! Over 100 red thumbs and the best I've ever done was in the 40s. Since there's little thought or reasoning behind the majority of the red thumbs, RSN should charge a dollar to give a red thumb. Then they could stop begging for donations.
 
 
+3 # Pikewich 2014-07-30 17:04
Here, I'll help your tally!
 
 
-25 # Barbara N Shabo RN 2014-07-30 02:43
Quoting brux:
The numbers do not begin to tell this story, and anyone who uses just the numbers is trying very hard NOT to acknowledge any other aspect to this conflict.

You are so correct! Mr. Greenwald, like other Israel bashers, ignores one basic fact:
One reason more Palestinian civilians are killed is because ISRAEL BUILDS SHELTERS FOR THEIR CIVILIANS while HAMAS BUILDS TUNNELS TO PROTECT THEIR ROCKETS AND MILITANTS. Why? So they can parade victims for the tv cameras and get sympthy and aid.
 
 
+6 # aljoschu 2014-08-01 08:38
Dear brux, what are you trying to tell us?

There was a time when the Isrealites invented the law of "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" and this was celebrated as a major step forward in the evolution towards civilization. And this law has to do with nothing else but numbers, brux, with statistics: 1 eye for 1 eye!

Currently, in Gaza we are approaching a 1 eye to 1000 eyes relation (it all started with 3 abducted and later killed Jewish youths - case for the police and the judge in any civilized democracy)!

This is nothing else than a drop-back into stoneage barbarism, brux. The numbers tell the essential story - and what you are telling us is pure demagogy!
 
 
-36 # jwb110 2014-07-29 13:11
It's just the NEWS.
 
 
+111 # PINA24 2014-07-29 13:19
Not only are the tunnels relatively inefficient as instruments of war, but they are really there to break the blockade on Gaza. Food and medicine travel through those tunnels, which the Israelis are destroying.
 
 
-69 # Art947 2014-07-29 14:04
Just like the Viet Cong tunnels were not part of their "instrument of warfare."
 
 
+59 # engelbach 2014-07-29 14:31
Are you trying to justify the U.S. war against the Vietnamese?
 
 
-52 # kalpal 2014-07-29 14:34
Are you as ignorant as your post makes you appear to be?
 
 
-53 # kalpal 2014-07-29 14:33
The tunnels into Israel which let out near kindergartens and daycare centers were dug to bring food and fuel into Gaza, right?
 
 
+49 # Radscal 2014-07-29 16:18
How many kindergartners have Hamas emerged from these tunnels to kill?

Oh. None.

You are a victim of propaganda.
 
 
-30 # brux 2014-07-29 23:02
How many dead Israeli Kindergarteners would make you happy and satisfy you?
 
 
+27 # Radscal 2014-07-29 23:13
None. How many dead Palestinians would make you happy to kill for an imaginary threat?
 
 
-8 # brux 2014-07-31 13:51
All of the Hamas terrorists ... especially if they could kill them without killing the human shields they have around themselves.
 
 
-27 # brux 2014-07-29 23:01
Baloney, food and medicine are not blockaded ... the tunnels smuggle in parts for rockets ... how else do you think they get there you dipshit?
 
 
-19 # Barbara N Shabo RN 2014-07-30 02:48
Quoting PINA24:
Not only are the tunnels relatively inefficient as instruments of war, but they are really there to break the blockade on Gaza. Food and medicine travel through those tunnels, which the Israelis are destroying.

If the tunnels are only there for food and medicine, HOW COME ARMED HAMAS AGENTS ARE CRAWLING THROUGH THEM TO POP UP IN ISRAEL TO LAUNCH MUMBAI STYLE ATTACKS ON KIBBUTZ KINDERGARTENS?? ??
 
 
+4 # Pikewich 2014-07-30 17:08
Ahhh, is this a trick question?

Could it be the savage bombing of UN Schools, hospitals and children on the street that has turned these tunnels into dual purpose usage? Remember, Hamas did not use the tunnels to kill soldiers before this savage attack.
 
 
+3 # tedrey 2014-08-02 09:34
Brooklyn Basics: If that were the case, why couldn't the Israelis simply block the tunnels on the Israeli side, instead of sending armed troops into Gaza to block or enter them?
 
 
+2 # ritawalpoleague 2014-07-30 03:29
Thank you so much, PINA24. You deserve a hundred more +'s. Truthful you are, so needed given all the trolling comments here, and intelligent plus is your great comment. Hang in there, since it appears that any and all truth tellers and truth outers, including online bloggers like you and me, are not listed as 'terrorists' on "The Secret Government Rulebook for Labeling You a Terrorist" (In case you haven't read this, pull it up, here on RSN).
 
 
+74 # oprichniki 2014-07-29 13:25
And, beside all of this the US Congress just appropriated a huge sum to support the Iron Dome. Members of Congress complain about the national debt and reckless spending? Collect taxes from rich Jewish business people and end the fraud of dual citizenship. Either you are a loyal AMERICAN or you are not.
 
 
+6 # tedrey 2014-07-30 09:02
Random thoughts:

An Iron dome is needed to protect Gaza where thousands of death are occurring, but the Congress wants to spend more to enhance Israel's which has proved quite sufficient in preventing Israeli deaths. Maybe Russia or China will oblige.

Meanwhile passenger airliners are continuing to fly into Israeli airports, AT ISRAEL'S INSISTENCE. In this one respect, Netenyahu says it is NOT a war zone.

I fear a repeat of the Ukrainian incident. An airliner is shot down, Israel SAYS it's done by Hamas and redoubles its barrage, and AIPAC brings the gullible US public back into line. You heard it here first.
 
 
-79 # Dr. Bob 2014-07-29 13:42
Mr. Greenwald, I think it is a distortion to frame the Hamas-Israeli fighting in terms of sheer numbers of killed and percentages of military vs. civilian casualties. If that was the benchmark, then the U.S. was guilty of worse crimes against Japan since the A-bombs dropped on Hroshima and Nagasaki alone created hundreds of thousands of Japanese casualties and the number of American civilians killed or injured were few. War is fought where it must be fought. Hamas wants Palestinian casualties and has fired thousands of rockets at civilian targets in Israel. Israel intercepts most of those rockets but that doesn't change the intent of Hamas's actions, nor lessens their provocation for Israeli response to them.
 
 
+71 # jsluka 2014-07-29 13:51
Dr of what? "Dr of Dumb" I presume. "Hamas wants Palestinian casualties" is just plain stupid. This is called "blaming the victim." And of course the bombing of cities during World War 2 was terrorism; that was its intent - to create fear among the civilian population in order to break their support for the enemy government. That's why the Germans and Japanese did it, and that's why the Allies did it back to them. How come you don't consider the Israeli/Zionist invasion of Palestine to be a "provocation"? If anyone invaded your land, I think you'd consider that a "provocation." Why should the Palestinians be any different? I believe you are not only dumb, but certainly a hypocrite and probably a racist too.
 
 
-48 # kalpal 2014-07-29 14:36
Hamas has clearly stated in its charter its intention to masacre all of Israel's Jews. What exactly do you find to be benevolent about its actions? Can you point to a single instance when hamas attempted to safeguard the population of Gaza?
 
 
+52 # Misterioso 2014-07-29 15:07
Reality:

Along with the PLO, Hezbollah, the Arab League, non-Arab Iran and the Organization of Islamic States, Hamas has long since agreed to the US supported 2002 Arab League Beirut Peace Initiative, which guarantees Israel full recognition as a sovereign state, exchange of ambassadors, trade, tourism, etc., if Israel complies with international law and its previous commitments. In this regard, a headline in the November 9, 2008 edition of Ha'aretz reads: “Haniyeh: Hamas Willing to Accept Palestinian State with 1967 Borders,” for a report that Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh had told 11 members of the European Parliament that Hamas would accept the 1967 borders with Israel and had offered a long-term truce in exchange for Israel’s recognition of Palestinian national rights. In an op-ed column in the New York Times the following year, Robert Malley, a special assistant for Arab-Israeli affairs under President Bill Clinton, said Hamas’s acceptance of a two state solution “has now grown from a hint to a certainty.”

In short, as evidenced by the fact that throughout the so-called "peace process" it has continued to blatantly and illegally grab more Palestinian land and water resources in the occupied West Bank and occupied East Jerusalem, Israel has no intention of pursuing a just and lasting solution to the conflict. Given the Netanyahu led Likud Party's platform, this is no surprise. Here's a summary of the platform: (cont'd)
 
 
+2 # ritawalpoleague 2014-07-30 03:35
Extremely intelligent you are, Misterioso. Thanks for your 'Reality'.
 
 
+50 # Misterioso 2014-07-29 15:08
Likud Platform:

a. “The Jordan river will be the permanent eastern border of the State of Israel.”

b. “Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel. The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem” [Palestinians have agreed to share Jerusalem with Israel as a joint capital.]

c. “The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river.”

d. “The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting.”
 
 
-22 # brux 2014-07-29 23:08
That is the way it has to be for their to be peace and security ... it's that simple now that the Palestinians have made it impossible They have their chance.
 
 
+56 # Misterioso 2014-07-29 15:10
Furthermore:

To quote the independen­t and highly respected human rights organizati­on Human Rights Watch regarding Israel's so-called "withdrawal" from the Gaza Strip in 2005: "...Israel will continue to be an Occupying Power [of the Gaza Strip] under internatio­nal law and bound by the provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention because it will retain effective control over the territory and over crucial aspects of civilian life. Israel will not be withdrawin­g and handing power over to a sovereign authority - indeed, the word 'withdrawa­l' does not appear in the [2005 disengagem­ent] document at all… The IDF will retain control over Gaza's borders, coastline, and airspace, and will reserve the right to enter Gaza at will. According to the Hague Regulation­s, 'A territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been establishe­d and can be exercised'­. Internatio­nal jurisprude­nce has clarified that the mere reposition­ing of troops is not sufficient to relieve an occupier of its responsibi­liti es if it retains its overall authority and the ability to reassert direct control at will."




In effect, by controlling its entrances, exits, air space and sea access, Israel has turned the Gaza Strip into the world's largest outdoor prison. Britain's PM David Cameron sums it up thusly: "[The Gaza Strip] is a prison camp."
 
 
+6 # tedrey 2014-07-30 09:08
Can't you distinguish between words and actions? Hamas threatens, but hasn't, and can't, carry out those threats . . . although I'm sure it wishes it could. Israel, on the other hand, somehow "self-defends" itself into continued expansion of its territory and expulsion and eradication of the former inhabitants.
 
 
+54 # engelbach 2014-07-29 14:34
The dropping of the atom bombs on Japan was a war crime, "doctor."

Regardless of the intent of Hamas, the innocent Palestinians are the ones suffering.

How very brave of you, from the comfort of your home, to say something as idiotic as "war is fought where it must be fought," as if the deaths of hundreds of men, women, and children were just some kind of a mathematical formula.
 
 
+31 # Radscal 2014-07-29 16:25
I don't know about Greenwald, but many of us do think the U.S. atomic bombing were war crimes. In fact, the entire campaign of strategic bombing of civilian areas was a war crime. At the time, the Allies called that "terror bombing." That sums it up.

According to Israel, Iron Dome has hit less than 1/3 of their Hamas rocket targets. The reason Hamas rockets are so ineffectual is because they are primitive, unguided and weak.

I am not defending the firing of rockets into areas with civilian populations (no matter who fires them); just correcting one of your errors.
 
 
-13 # Barbara N Shabo RN 2014-07-30 02:51
Quoting Dr. Bob:
Mr. Greenwald, I think it is a distortion to frame the Hamas-Israeli fighting in terms of sheer numbers of killed and percentages of military vs. civilian casualties. If that was the benchmark, then the U.S. was guilty of worse crimes against Japan since the A-bombs dropped on Hroshima and Nagasaki alone created hundreds of thousands of Japanese casualties and the number of American civilians killed or injured were few. War is fought where it must be fought. Hamas wants Palestinian casualties and has fired thousands of rockets at civilian targets in Israel. Israel intercepts most of those rockets but that doesn't change the intent of Hamas's actions, nor lessens their provocation for Israeli response to them.

Facts and Truth just get in the way of all the anti-Israel rhetoric.
 
 
0 # Salus Populi 2014-08-01 16:37
"If that was the benchmark, then the U.S. was guilty of worse crimes against Japan..."

As indeed it was. General Curtis E. LeMay, who was in charge of the fire bombing of Tokyo in February 1945, which killed an estimated 800,000 people, stated after the war that had the Allies lost, he undoubtedly would have been hanged as a war criminal. One of the Reicht's propaganda tools is to claim [generally while presenting little evidence] that the Communist regimes [Stalin's and Mao's] killed "hundreds of millions" of their own citizens. Apparently, numbers only matter when they have propaganda value for the "indispensable nation," but not if the designated enemy _du siècle_ has the moral high ground.
 
 
-33 # Jackpine 2014-07-29 13:55
I dunno about "terrorism," but it's easy to define "terrorist."

A terrorist is a guy with a bomb & no airplane.
 
 
+16 # alan17b0 2014-07-29 14:08
Quoting Jackpine:
I dunno about "terrorism," but it's easy to define "terrorist."

A terrorist is a guy with a bomb & no airplane.


Wonderful! did you make this up? May I use it?

Alan McConnell, in Silver Spring MD
 
 
+57 # fenox 2014-07-29 14:24
There is terrorism and state terrorism. That's why we combats dictators. As to Israel , it uses state terrorism against occupied territories. There is no Israeli war against Gaza, because it has no army.
t is terrorist repression against a population. And who wouldn't understand them. There is not one family left in Gaza that didn't loose a family member due to Israel's aggressions these last forty years.
 
 
-21 # brux 2014-07-29 23:10
If you want to look at numbers here are the relevant numbers:

1. How many Palestinians live happy healthy lies in Israel?

2. How many Jews live happy healthy lives in Palestine?

That simple.
 
 
+6 # dsepeczi 2014-07-30 07:22
Quoting brux:
If you want to look at numbers here are the relevant numbers:

1. How many Palestinians live happy healthy lies in Israel?

2. How many Jews live happy healthy lives in Palestine?

That simple.


Question 1 answer: Probably zero but I haven't seen any polls either way.

Question 2: Literally thousands ... and the number grows each time that Israel decides that they want to extend their territory further. They just come in with their military, tell the Gazans living there they have to pack up and move ... and then they fence that new area off from Palestinians. Have you read nothing about Jewish settlements continually encroaching into Palestinian lands ?
 
 
+17 # dyannne 2014-07-29 14:28
Quoting Jackpine:
I dunno about "terrorism," but it's easy to define "terrorist."

A terrorist is a guy with a bomb & no airplane.


That plus there was a mistake. I meant to hit the red negative. Terrorists come in many forms.
 
 
+10 # Annietime13 2014-07-29 14:53
DEAR dyanne,
I hit the negative to Jackpine's quote, so we could clear his deck,,,,

I complain abt that all the time,some of us have antsy fingers and wonder why they can't put the negative and the positive on opposite sides of our write ins, so we don't inadvertently chose the wrong one!!
 
 
-30 # kalpal 2014-07-29 14:39
Glib, simplistic and abysmally ignorant. A "terrorist" is a person who fully intends on committing murder and mayhem without any intention of caring who is murdered and who is maimed. (eg one who lobbs missiles without caring where they land.)
 
 
-45 # moafu@yahoo.com 2014-07-29 14:56
Interesting distortion and Glenn is true to his Leftist beliefs - point out the offenses of those whom you don't like. Glenn, if your neighbor was throwing stones over your fence to hit your children, what would you do? And what would you do if he began to dig a tunnel to kidnap your children?

Would you do as the USA does and borrow money to send your neighbor's kids to college? Madness on the part of the USA to give aid to Hamas.

You take an illogical position and then logically commence to justify it. Gregory Peck pointed out in an interview that to "portray evil, one should pursue an illogical goal on screen in a logical manner".

You forget that Israel withdrew from Gaza because the Islamists said that they would be peaceful toward Israel. The broke their word and began shelling Israel with rockets soon as they left.

I'll tell you what: If my neighbor was throwing rocks at my kids, I would warn him -- ONCE.
 
 
+3 # dsepeczi 2014-07-30 07:27
Quoting moafu@yahoo.com:
Interesting distortion and Glenn is true to his Leftist beliefs - point out the offenses of those whom you don't like. Glenn, if your neighbor was throwing stones over your fence to hit your children, what would you do? And what would you do if he began to dig a tunnel to kidnap your children?

Would you do as the USA does and borrow money to send your neighbor's kids to college? Madness on the part of the USA to give aid to Hamas.

You take an illogical position and then logically commence to justify it. Gregory Peck pointed out in an interview that to "portray evil, one should pursue an illogical goal on screen in a logical manner".

You forget that Israel withdrew from Gaza because the Islamists said that they would be peaceful toward Israel. The broke their word and began shelling Israel with rockets soon as they left.

I'll tell you what: If my neighbor was throwing rocks at my kids, I would warn him -- ONCE.


Talk about an interesting distortion. In your rhetorical question, you left out the part that you and your kids are living where the home of your neighbor used to be because a foreign government that you are a part of brought their military over and evicted your neighbor without any compensation and gave their land to you. If someone came over and took my house and literally gave it to someone else, I'm sure I'd throw stones too.
 
 
-40 # Fraenkel.1 2014-07-29 14:57
You are forgetting how this started. Rocket attacks from Gaza. Can you imagine how USA would react to rocket attacks from Mexico? We make enough fuss when a bunch of kids steal across the border. Israel left Gaza of its own accord. They even left their greenhouses which the Gazans promptly destroyed. Instead of building houses with the cement that was sent to them they used it for tunnels On top of this they make sure to have lots of civilians martyrs by shooting their rockets from people's houses and schools. And Israel is responding they same way we would. Last night Charlie Rose interviewed the head of Hamas at his luxury villa, safe in one of the Gulf states (instead of with his people). Guy had no intention of ever living with Israel. Now who are he terrorists?
 
 
+41 # poetmarinerray 2014-07-29 15:25
The IDF are bombing hospitals and power supply depots , and other non-military national infrastructure vital to supplying civilians in Gaza with the basic resources for life,such as clean water, food processing plants, health and hospital emergency facilities ,etc that is leading to a massive humanitarian crisis.
 
 
+28 # poetmarinerray 2014-07-29 15:26
How is that merely self-defense?
 
 
-21 # brux 2014-07-29 23:13
At this point it is probably not JUST self-defense.

At this point after 60 years of trying to make peace,
giving up land, moving out of Gaza, Israel is righteously
sick and tired of Palestinian Nazi tactics, and I think
they are deadly serious about ending this ... peacefully
or not.

They will make life impossible in Gaza so those people
have to move to the West Bank. Then when they continue
to terrorize they will just continue to build settlements
and eat up their land until the Palestinians either make
peace or move to other Arab lands.

Time is not on the side of the Palestinians anymore.
 
 
+7 # dsepeczi 2014-07-30 07:32
Quoting brux:
At this point it is probably not JUST self-defense.

At this point after 60 years of trying to make peace,
giving up land, moving out of Gaza, Israel is righteously
sick and tired of Palestinian Nazi tactics, and I think
they are deadly serious about ending this ... peacefully
or not.

They will make life impossible in Gaza so those people
have to move to the West Bank. Then when they continue
to terrorize they will just continue to build settlements
and eat up their land until the Palestinians either make
peace or move to other Arab lands.

Time is not on the side of the Palestinians anymore.


In other words ... genocide is Israel's aim .... genocide of an entire people. What a perfect plan. Make life unliveable for the "others" that you don't want around. Make conditions so bad that every man, woman and child grows up with a "I haven't got a thing to lose" attitude and when they rightfully stand up for themselves ... declare them terrorists and use that as justification for wiping them all out. Yeah, good plan ... if you're evil.
 
 
-7 # brux 2014-07-31 13:49
> In other words ... genocide is Israel's aim

Not at all, not in other words, not in those words ...

those are your words, dishonest words to twist Israels need for self-defense into genocide. And even the use of the word genocide is in error because destroying the threat of terrorist Palestinians does not destroy all Palestinians.

Why does Isreal have Palestian Arabs living inside it with representation in their government?

Why does Palestine not have Jews living there with representation in their government.

Simple questions ... ought to be simple to answer?
 
 
+35 # fenox 2014-07-29 15:51
Mr Fraenkel, I do not double t your good faith. But more Israelis die in traffic every year than by Hamas,
Do you bomb the Israeli road infrastructure ?
What the blockade does to the people of Gaza is not
known by many. Try to read the reports of MSF, the doctors without borders. It will give you an idea of the prison you created by being honest followers of the Netanyahu regime. It's comparable to the Ghetto of Warshow and that must tell you something.
Because after that comes the killing of those who are just enemies, and not human beings anymore.
 
 
+18 # lfeuille 2014-07-29 16:09
[quote name="Fraenkel. 1"]You are forgetting how this started. Rocket attacks from Gaza. Can you imagine how USA would react to rocket attacks from Mexico?

Hmm, Israel engineers the rocket attacks because they think the world will hold them blameless, but people who are paying attention realize that eventually the Israel provocation that the rocket attacks are responding to will come to light, at least for those who go beyond the MSM. This time it wasn't rocket attacks, it was the 3 dead teenagers that Hammas susposedly killed, but that rational has already been shot down. Hammas had nothing to do with their deaths
 
 
+29 # Radscal 2014-07-29 16:39
"You are forgetting how this started"

Or, as I told my 3rd grade teacher, "The fight started when he hit me back."

Hamas began firing rockets into Israel on July 7.
Prior to that, after the 3 illegal immigrants were disappeared, Israel had brutally raided the West Bank, arresting 700 people, killing 11 and blowing up or burning down numerous homes. The IDF also flew some 60 bombing missions into Gaza.

And the whole time, they knew Hamas was not responsible for the disappearance of those illegal immigrants, that they had been killed while on the phone with the police and who the suspects were.

Israel deliberately provoked Hamas to fight back, and as violent as Hamas is, it still took Israel 3 weeks of provocation to get Hamas to break their 19 month-long truce and retaliate.

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/25128-in-gaza-israel-coverage-new-york-times-purveys-pro-war-propaganda-on-page-one
 
 
+6 # keenon the truth 2014-07-29 19:19
This greenhouse thing gets raised periodically here, so I did a little digging, and it seems at least in some cases that the Israelis made sure to render them unusable before they left.
 
 
+3 # dsepeczi 2014-07-30 07:29
Quoting Fraenkel.1:
You are forgetting how this started. Rocket attacks from Gaza. Can you imagine how USA would react to rocket attacks from Mexico? We make enough fuss when a bunch of kids steal across the border. Israel left Gaza of its own accord. They even left their greenhouses which the Gazans promptly destroyed. Instead of building houses with the cement that was sent to them they used it for tunnels On top of this they make sure to have lots of civilians martyrs by shooting their rockets from people's houses and schools. And Israel is responding they same way we would. Last night Charlie Rose interviewed the head of Hamas at his luxury villa, safe in one of the Gulf states (instead of with his people). Guy had no intention of ever living with Israel. Now who are he terrorists?


You're forgetting the central issue of this entire situation. Israel forcing a whole people to live in an outdoor prison that gets smaller with each new land grab that Israel decides to take, "on a whim", without providing any compensation to the people they harmed in the process.
 
 
+1 # Salus Populi 2014-08-01 16:49
Nope. It started with the Israeli murder of five members of Hamas, the fifty IDF "incursions" in one day into Gaza, following the sixty that took place while Hamas observed the Dec. 2012 truce. Hamas *finally* responded, as the Israelis, with their Iron Dome, had been hoping they would. The chronology comes from Israeli intelligence.
 
 
+34 # Shorey13 2014-07-29 15:06
In the final analysis, one man's terrorist is always another's freedom fighter. Witness the Tibetans and Uighurs, trying to protect themselves against hordes of Han Chinese.

Our Founding Fathers were condemned as terrorist by the English Redcoats, because they adopted Native AMerican tactics.

In Obama's speech at West Point this year, he used the word "terrorist" 17 t imes.

Fear is the perfect potting soil for demagogic opportunists.
 
 
+28 # poetmarinerray 2014-07-29 15:19
Let's be clear here. Glenn Greenwald is talking about the indiscriminate slaughter of innocents by a stalwart American ally in Israel not for self-defense purpose ,but for nationalistic goals of seizing vital land and resources of another country . I think only the poets have spoken most eloquently about tragedies like what is unfolding in Gaza and Israel today. Dirge Without Music

BY EDNA ST. VINCENT MILLAY

I am not resigned to the shutting away of loving hearts in the hard ground.
So it is, and so it will be, for so it has been, time out of mind:
Into the darkness they go, the wise and the lovely. Crowned
With lilies and with laurel they go; but I am not resigned.

Lovers and thinkers, into the earth with you.
Be one with the dull, the indiscriminate dust.
A fragment of what you felt, of what you knew,
A formula, a phrase remains,—but the best is lost.

The answers quick and keen, the honest look, the laughter, the
love,—
They are gone. They are gone to feed the roses. Elegant and curled
Is the blossom. Fragrant is the blossom. I know. But I do not approve.
More precious was the light in your eyes than all the roses in the world.

Down, down, down into the darkness of the grave
Gently they go, the beautiful, the tender, the kind;
Quietly they go, the intelligent, the witty, the brave.
I know. But I do not approve. And I am not resigned.
 
 
-21 # brux 2014-07-29 23:16
>> indiscriminate slaughter of innocents

Piss off, that is a lie, that is untrue and that gets written here over and over daily ... this is not what Israel does.

When you lie, every day you lie gets a little stronger, bolder and more untrue, until at some point it becomes ridiculous, where it is now.
 
 
+4 # tedrey 2014-07-30 09:21
Still, it happens to be true.

You ignore plain facts, you answer no arguments, and you have reached a depth of untruth and ridiculousness that has become boring.

For your own sake, shut up.
 
 
-6 # brux 2014-07-31 13:46
What do you say about Hamas blaming Israel for blowing up the school when it was their errant rocket bound for civilian areas in Israel and misfired and crashed down on their citizens. Would you would really appreciate having such a government running your life?
 
 
+37 # Radscal 2014-07-29 16:13
On Sunday, Israel finally admitted to having shelled the UN shelter last week, in which 16 civilians were killed. Previously, they had claimed that a Hamas rocket had hit it.

But get this: Israel claims they shelled the school by mistake. Mind you, the IDF had already warned the UN that the school was a target, and the officials in the school were trying to get the IDF to give them time to evacuate, but the IDF didn't return their calls. Just a coincidence, I guess.

Further, Israel claims their shelling killed no one! They are suggesting that the UN brought in dead bodies from somewhere else to plant at the shelter!

These Israelis have no conscience and the U.S. media is no better.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/israel-acknowledges-mortar-shell-hit-un-school
 
 
-19 # brux 2014-07-29 23:17
>> On Sunday, Israel finally admitted to having shelled the UN shelter last week, in which 16 civilians were killed.

Your implication is that they did it on purpose ... let's hear you condemn the Palestinians for trying DELIBERATELY and succeeding several times to kill people indiscriminatel y with rockets then?
 
 
+10 # Radscal 2014-07-30 00:46
"Your implication is that they did it on purpose"

Absolutely. They notified the UN that they were going to shell the shelter, refused calls to delay the attack, and then attacked it. Then, for many days, they lied by denying they'd done it, and blaming Hamas rockets. Those are the uncontested facts. So, I do not believe their current claim that they didn't do it on purpose.

"let's hear you condemn the Palestinians..."
I condemn Palestinian Arabs who target civilian areas, and always have. You may not recognize that, but it's called moral consistency.
 
 
-5 # brux 2014-07-31 13:44
You may have some amount of moral consistency for show, but the whole of it is pretty damn broken given where you are ending up.
 
 
+29 # Doll 2014-07-29 16:24
I have read that Israel is paying people to troll websites critical of Israel. I suppose Brux, and his ilk, have made a ton of money doing this at their masters command.

Israel is committing genocide, plain and simple. This is a crime. It is the worst of crimes.

And, BTW, where are all the "Christians" deploring this atrocity? Twenty percent of Palestinians are Christian.

Here is what I think happened: Beginning over 2000 years ago, Jews began converting to Christianity. Later, when they got no support from the Christians, they converted to Islam. The Palestinians are the descendants of the ancient Hebrews, and Israel hates them for being converts.
 
 
+23 # Netmain 2014-07-29 17:16
guess what? you're right!
look here: http://epiphenom.fieldofscience.com/2009/01/shared-genetic-heritage-of-jews-and.html

in fact the Palestinians and the Jews share the same genetic heritage, not only that, but the majority of the israeli Jews are Jewish by conversion,The majority are Europeans!
 
 
+16 # Netmain 2014-07-29 19:37
I want to point out, in the conclusion in that article, the author concludes that the conflict is religious! which is not!! Muslims, Christians and Jews lived side by side for centries with no problem whatsoever in that particular region, until now, 20% of the palestinians are Christian! it's more like the Palestinians are just surviving the ethnic cleansing the Zionists are planning to, to have all the land for them!
You have to note, that Israel doesn't have borders until now! it's expanding all the time, via direct aggressions like this one, or via settlements in the west bank! where there is no resistance!

So, Blaming Hamas for resisting isn't that credible when we see what's going on in west bank, thousands of prisoners every year, and tens to hundreds of kills! not to mention the demolition of houses, and stolen lands!
 
 
-21 # brux 2014-07-29 23:21
Lebanon is the example here ... yes, the different groups lived side by side for a long time, until Muslims got to be a majority by Palestinians moving in with weapons and terrorism.

No one else to blame but Hamas.
 
 
+9 # Netmain 2014-07-30 02:44
your post is so idiotic, that I can't know where to start!
you're right in one point though! one side got the majority,with weapons and terrorism! that's the Israeli side!
it was exactly between 1946-1984. long before hamas was even created!(1987), and before it was ELECTED as a government in GAZA 2006.
So blaming Hamas for something, where they didn't even exist is so idiotic.
I see you responded to almost every comment that doesn't share your opinions on the matter! are you trying to make a point? or just getting more money ;)
 
 
+7 # Netmain 2014-07-30 14:40
can you remind me, who is the terrorist, again?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks
 
 
-9 # brux 2014-07-31 13:41
You want to do research ... tell me about Irgun attacks on civilians, and then compare that with Palestinian terrorism?
 
 
-16 # brux 2014-07-29 23:20
Thanks, I'm my own master, but if anyone wants to send me cash for expressing my own educated and long-held beliefs, I'd love to accept it.

I'm not even Jewish or Christian, I am a fan of the rule of law and Western Civilization. When you look at what is happening all across the world in Muslim countries, girls being raped, girls being forbidden to go to school ... I guess you are just happy as hell to support that kind of culture?

This has nothing to do with 2000 years ago, it has to do with the toxic political system of totalitarian Islam.
 
 
+3 # John S. Browne 2014-07-30 11:15
#

LOL!! You're "...a fan of the rule of law..."?! That's the funniest sick joke I've ever heard!! You're absolutely insane!! Because you're certainly not for the international rule of law, and for the U.S. rule of law that includes those international laws; and that the U.S. and Israeli governments violate constantly, mass-murdering thousands of innocent civilians; and, in the case of the U.S., millions of innocent civilians; over ten million since and including World War Two!! Just because it is done in mass-swaths by so-called "acceptable", "heroic" and "patriotic" fighter jets, and embargoes, does not make it any less mass-murder!! But, as I've said before, there's no reasoning with completely insane people like yourself!!

(Continued)
 
 
+2 # John S. Browne 2014-07-30 11:16
#

You eat up the official false propaganda, no matter how much it is poisoning you and many others, and swallow "hook, line and s(uc)ker", with orgasmic delight, the reports of the mass-exterminat ion of defenseless civilians as if it's a horror movie where no one's really being slaughtered, or a relatively "benign", "harmless" U.S. football game, and a "bread and circuses" entertainment extravaganza for your mindless and pitiless enjoy- ment!! Never mind the countless bodies, many of them children, and the vast majority of them defenseless civilians, that are being sliced in half, limbs sliced off, heads decapitat- ed, people bleeding out, receiving third degree burns over most of their bodies, dying of shock, going into comas that they never awaken from, having to have their limbs ampu- tated, and many later dying of opportunistic infections, and so on!!

I wish you and all of your extremely-evil ilk would be "amputated" from websites such as this one, and that we didn't have to be constantly bombarded with your extremely- sick, terrifying, disgusting, merciless, endless barrages of pusillanimous bile, hatefulness and support of mass-murder!! If only you demonic creatures could all be legally tried, convicted and locked up as the true terrorists you are, so we would not have to be sub- jected to your vileness and defense(s) of hideousness any longer!!

#
 
 
-6 # brux 2014-07-31 13:35
Why do you always have to have diarrhea of the keyboard whenever you say the smallest thing.

It's all about body count for you ... as I said, body count and deaths are not what this is about. Short and sweet, and still to complicated for you to understand.
 
 
+3 # John S. Browne 2014-08-01 01:49
#

You are the one with the constant crap coming out of your mouth. You've added, about ten new comments to this thread just since the last time I commented, mak- ing your grand total of comments, just in this thread alone, four times that. And I've written a grand total of four comments in this thread (five including this one)! And, even if you account for length of comments, all of your comments add up to more writing than I wrote in my five comments all put together. So, you are so FOS that it's also coming out of your ears as well, in bucket-loads, constantly!

I just counted, and you have posted a total of forty (40) comments in this thread!

#
 
 
+5 # reiverpacific 2014-07-30 13:04
Quoting brux:
Thanks, I'm my own master, but if anyone wants to send me cash for expressing my own educated and long-held beliefs, I'd love to accept it.

I'm not even Jewish or Christian, I am a fan of the rule of law and Western Civilization. When you look at what is happening all across the world in Muslim countries, girls being raped, girls being forbidden to go to school ... I guess you are just happy as hell to support that kind of culture?

This has nothing to do with 2000 years ago, it has to do with the toxic political system of totalitarian Islam.


Really.
Remember Ghandi's prescient reply to the question "What do you think of Western Civilization?" -response- "I think it would be a very good idea!".
And Tatanka Leyoté's observation (Hunkpapa) "The White man can make everything but has never learned to distribute it". Ask the natives of this continent how "Civilization" has treated them, and the people of Appalachia, -and the Southern (and other) Blacks, -and the present day poor.
And you keep forgetting Indonesia (Where I lived and worked for three years, got right in amongst the local and regional peoples of that beautiful and much interfered with by the Dutch, British and US land and adopted a baby girl), which is predominantly Muslim except for Hindu Bali yet welcomes all religions or none by statute.
You need to get out a bit more.
 
 
-5 # brux 2014-07-31 13:40
I agree with Gandhi's comment at that time. Nothing human in this world is perfect, but finding and sorting what there is - is the job of the intelligent person and not permitting the good to be the enemy of the perfect.

Line up Palestinian society and culture with Israeli and there is no contest ... Palestinian society, and radical Religious Islamic rule is a disaster for the whole world including those living under it.

Eventually Judaism s a religion will probably fade as well, but the important secular parts - the morally, the basic key ... "do unto others" that is common to all other Western systems of morality will remain always.

Islam really does not have that as a key tenet, radical Islam is a low tech totalitarian system that enslaves the human mind and heart in a hierarchy of selfishness, intolerance and evil. It cannot compete with other ways of life and it does not deserve tolerance, or a vote in the UN.
 
 
+25 # nancyw 2014-07-29 16:57
All this attention to Russia and the Ukraine. Where is our government with sanctions or any kind of immediate action around the Israeli massacre going on. Our government is certainly amiss in this horrible ongoing tragic travesty.
 
 
+20 # ericlipps 2014-07-29 17:53
This would be even more effective if the two pie charts were sized according to the total numbers killed on each side.

Of course, pro-Israel posters would scream, because that would make the one for Israelis look like a cupcake next to the other.
 
 
-27 # The Buffalo Guy 2014-07-29 18:46
Quoting wrknight:
Right, Buffalo Guy. Self defense means you get to kill over a hundred of your enemies for every friend they kill; and everyone on that side is your enemy. (Like your bible says, 100 eyes for every eye and 100 teeth for every tooth.)


And speaking of destroying what is trying to destroy you, why not just destroy everything while you are at it.

You are on a roll, man!

PS Were you raised in Texas?


Nope, I'm not a Texan. That's the two George Bushes territory, no friends of mine. I would remind you of Brux's post. Numbers mean nothing when it comes to self defense. What the Israelis are doing is eliminating what they believe is a threat, tunnels and rockets including their launch sites. I would do what I had to do to protect my family and I might not like it but I understand it. It's what happens in a war. I don't know of any war where they plan to keep the casualties one for one or any other ratio of causalities. Obviously, you support the Palestinians so the numbers upset you. I'm looking at a conflict that doesn't make sense, are the Palestinians committing suicide? Don't they care for their people? Can you help me understand their strategy?
 
 
+20 # keenon the truth 2014-07-29 19:33
Buffalo Guy, you are being disingenuous .Try reading some of the posts here without your Israel Forever glasses on. Any thinking person, even if theywince at the Palestinian death toll, can easilyunderstan d why Palestinians continue to resist. Was it in Marc Ash´s article, I read here abouthow Palestinians have no other way to resist, as the non violent means used by other opressed people are not available to them. Now, if the world would not only listen, but take concrete steps to help them, perhaps their violent response would not be necessary.
 
 
-17 # The Buffalo Guy 2014-07-29 21:20
Quoting keenon the truth:
Buffalo Guy, you are being disingenuous .Try reading some of the posts here without your Israel Forever glasses on. Any thinking person, even if theywince at the Palestinian death toll, can easily understand why Palestinians continue to resist. Was it in Marc Ash´s article, I read here abouthow Palestinians have no other way to resist, as the non violent means used by other opressed people are not available to them. Now, if the world would not only listen, but take concrete steps to help them, perhaps their violent response would not be necessary.


Disingenuous? "Israel Forever"? They have no other way to resist? I'm a Christian and my beliefs start with us all being God's children. I am appalled at what humans do with the free will God gave us but I do understand the threat people can be to one another. Look at human history. And please don't think that I'm pleased to see the fiasco going on there but as I have stated, I understand why Israel is doing what it's doing. What I don't understand is the Palestinian strategy unless they intend on suicide. Remember the kamikaze incidents during WWII. It's not a new tactic but that is what's disingenuous. It's the act of a loser and perhaps desperation. Where is the Palestinian support? I don't believe this conflict can be put to rest until both sides can start without demands.
FYI, the Pope when asked about aliens from outer space replied that we're all God's children. I loved it!
 
 
-10 # brux 2014-07-29 23:26
>> I don't believe this conflict can be put to rest until both sides can start without demands.

It's not that both sides have demands ... it's what those demands are ... namely the Palestinians insist on a one-state solution that allows all Palestinians to move back to Israel. This will effectively destroy Israel and lead to Muslim domination and oppression as it was before and is in all the surrounding countries.

To start without demands is a step back - a step forward would be BOTH sides recognizing the other's right to exist. But that this point I don't think Israel is interested in that, it has been too long. They know the socialization of Palestinians kids begins very young dehumanizing Jews and turning their kids into little death dealing robots.
 
 
0 # The Buffalo Guy 2014-07-30 12:11
Brux, they need to break the ice and start with something they can agree with and a mediator would help. But the history is that they start with non-negotiable demands and that's all she wrote. You rightly identify what the catch-22 problems are, with or without demands, and I agree. And that's why I think getting them to a table signifies they recognize they both exist and perhaps then finding something, anything, to agree on, could be a start. Formally recognizing each other's existence could come later.
You imply hopelessness, "it has been too long", and I can only point to the racial divide that we still have in the US. It's not perfect and can be tenuous but there is hope.
 
 
-6 # brux 2014-07-31 13:30
Sorry to disagree but with this lot to make any impression take fire and ice ... they need to be hit over the head ... first with facts ... and then .... well, you know what they say ... some people do not ever see the light until it shines through their bullet holes. Seems like the case with Palestinian terrorists.
 
 
-5 # brux 2014-07-31 13:32
> Formally recognizing each other's existence could come later.


Seriously there is no continuous evolutionary was to deal with people who cannot recognize the humanity of the side ... and who eventually lose their own humanity. This is what war is, and sadly the human race has no other way to deal with it but hoping that eventually right wins out. That was sort of the hope after WWII ... the good guys won. This conflict is evil trying to make a comeback in my opinion.
 
 
-4 # The Buffalo Guy 2014-07-31 21:24
brux, Evil making a comeback and the loss of humanity is an insightful observation. It sure seems that way because it's so frustrating watching the human race act against their best interests. Both sides eventually lose their humanity which means they lose their religious faith in my opinion. Then secular considerations replace their faith or their faith is twisted to support their secular interests. In this case it's about who is entitled to land that has been tread upon by different people over time with its shared use a seemingly impossible goal.
 
 
+2 # fenox 2014-07-30 12:54
Buffalo Guy, your logic is a bit difficult to follow.
So you are Christian? Why not, " love your neighbours like you love yourself" Jesus said. Perhaps a beginning of reflection? Israel is not exactly a loving neighbour. Palestinians intend on suicide? Marvelous!
People resist occupation and blockade, and " buffalo guy" thinks they intend suicide!!!! How happy we are to know that in the ghetto of Warchow Jews built tunnels to get food and guns, and how very heroic the resistance in Europe made tunnels and killed from time to time a German occupier. It gave hope to Jews, and to the occupied, these acts of resistance.
So poor Buffalo, Japan was an occupier, not an occupied. The fact that you compare resistance against occupiers with suicidal acts, makes me wonder. No you are no Texan, more probably from Brooklyn. With a ridiculous name to fool the folks.
The same as you are no Christian.
 
 
-6 # The Buffalo Guy 2014-07-30 16:22
Quoting fenox:
Buffalo Guy, your logic is a bit difficult to follow.
So you are Christian? Why not, " love your neighbours like you love yourself" Jesus said. Perhaps a beginning of reflection? Israel is not exactly a loving neighbour. Palestinians intend on suicide? Marvelous!
People resist occupation and blockade, and " buffalo guy" thinks they intend suicide!!!! How happy we are to know that in the ghetto of Warchow Jews built tunnels to get food and guns, and how very heroic the resistance in Europe made tunnels and killed from time to time a German occupier. It gave hope to Jews, and to the occupied, these acts of resistance.
So poor Buffalo, Japan was an occupier, not an occupied. The fact that you compare resistance against occupiers with suicidal acts, makes me wonder. No you are no Texan, more probably from Brooklyn. With a ridiculous name to fool the folks.
The same as you are no Christian.


APPLES & ORANGES. Do you bring other situations in to the discussion to confuse the issue? And then follow that up with my faith. But thank you anyway for a poor attempt at a semblance of dialog. Oh, I'm not from Brooklyn either another attempt, by you to deflect from the issue probably inferring that I'm Jewish.
Finally, I think anyone attempting to continue a physical fight when they are not up to the task is committing suicide, especially when they could have accepted a cease fire.
 
 
-12 # brux 2014-07-29 23:23
Palestinians are not RESISTING, they are fighting an ACTIVE guerrilla war to destroy Israel funded by other Muslim countries who also want to destroy Israel because they do not want to have democracy or lose their right to oppress non-Muslims all over the Islamic world.
 
 
-5 # brux 2014-07-31 13:33
Yeah, the Palestinians have no other way to resist ...

because what they are resisting is the right of Israel and Jews to exist at all.
 
 
+1 # Salus Populi 2014-08-01 17:17
The first Intifada started out non-violent. The Israelis killed Palestinians who were non-violently protesting for around six weeks before the protesters became violent. The Isrealis then reacted to rock throwing with an official policy of breaking the legs of the stone throwers, including children.

The second Intifada was more to the Israelis' liking: It became violent and lethal very quickly, giving the Israelis a propaganda coup. But the roots, routinely and almost universally ignored by the rabidly pro-Israel Western mainscream tedia, lay in Israel's violent response to the first, intentionally non-violent Intifada.

The Israelis have always preferred violent victims, and have, whenever peace was maintained by the other side, as before the Lebanon aggression of 1982, worked diligently to provoke a violent response, since they know that in the court of world public opinion, they have no political leg to stand on, having violated virtually every international law during the entire existence of Israel.

Indeed, it is to protect its middle east client state that the U.S. has become by far the leader in number of vetoes cast in the UN Security Council.
 
 
+1 # Charles3000 2014-07-29 18:52
Greenwald has his definition of "terrorism" wrong. It is a well defined term and it refers to an act of violence which carries a political message, the intent of the violence being to publicize the political message. 9/11 was a terrorist attack; think World Trade Center:US international corps that corrupt Arab governments, Pentagon: US Military that supports oppressive governments in the mid east, US Capital (foiled strike): US Govt foreign policy in the mid east. Based on an accurate definition of the term then Hamas is engaged in terrorism and it is working. The message is being heard. They are refugees, they are imprisoned in the small space of Gaza, they are oppressed by occupation by Israel. Israel's fight is different. They don't want their political interests spread around. They are just trying to hold on to the land they have stolen from the Palestinians.
 
 
-16 # wiredsam 2014-07-29 20:12
"Terrorists" strike without notice -- Hamas missiles followed by discovery of tunnels through which they have/planned attacks on Israeli civilians fit the bill here. "Terrorists" have little regard for life, their enemies' or of their own civilian bystanders -- Hamas has rejected ceasefire, broken the short ones that were agreed to, and made targets of the Gazan population by hiding and attacking from within them. I challenge anyone to honestly claim they would stand by idly when confronted by a barrage of missiles launched across their border by a group whose charter calls for their destruction. There are lies, white lies, and simple numbered graphs that obscure the truth. Knowing Israel cannot stop without wiping out the weapons targeted at their own population, Hamas seems willing to sacrifice uncounted numbers of the civilians it holds hostage so long as it can paint Israel as the devil in the knee-jerk jury of public opinion. Israel is bound to stop Hamas from harming itself; Hamas is continually offered opportunities to stop the violence and then discuss their grievances. Is that such a high price for Hamas to pay considering the alternative?
 
 
+1 # fenox 2014-07-30 13:44
So Brux, you cried for help from other Aipec members?
 
 
+19 # Shorey13 2014-07-29 20:23
In all conflict, when the sides are massively unequal, the underdog has no choice but to try to "terrorize" the oppressor.

When the Zionists were trying to drive the British out of Palestine. Menachim Begin and his militant allies blew up a theatre full of innocent civilians. Also, as I said earlier, when the American Colonists were outmanned and outgunned, they had to use techniques they had learned fighting Native American. For that, they were called terrorists.

Can you say HIroshime? Dresden? Clearly, the definition of "terrorism" depends on whose ox is being gored.
 
 
-11 # brux 2014-07-29 23:30
> Menachim Begin and his militant allies blew up a theatre full of innocent civilians.

Really, where?

I think you have the story wrong ... this is from that well-known Jewish propaganda entity Wikipedia:

Operation commenced
Aman decided to activate the network in the Spring of 1954. On 2 July the cell detonated bombs at a post office in Alexandria,[6] and on 14 July, it bombed the libraries of the U.S. Information Agency in Alexandria and Cairo and a British-owned theater. The homemade bombs, consisting of bags containing acid placed over nitroglycerine, were inserted into books, and placed on the shelves of the libraries just before closing time. Several hours later, as the acid ate through the bags, the bombs would explode. They did little damage to the targets and caused no injuries or deaths.
 
 
-13 # brux 2014-07-29 23:34
Actually when you look at the supposed terror operations conducted against the British by the Zionists, they were not what is now called terrorist. They were always aimed at military targets and on occasion there were accidents.

More from Wikipedia:

Under Begin’s leadership, the Irgun continued to carry out operations such as breaking into Acre Prison, and the kidnapping and hanging of two British sergeants in order to prevent, and then in retaliation to, the execution of several Irgun members by the British.

Growing numbers of British soldiers and policemen were deployed to quell the Jewish uprising, yet Begin managed to elude captivity, at times disguised as a rabbi.

MI5 placed a 'dead-or-alive' bounty of £10,000 on his head after Irgun threatened 'a campaign of terror against British officials', saying they would kill Sir John Shaw, Britain's Chief Secretary in Palestine.

--

Now contrast that with the Palestinians whose religious leader during WWII the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin Al Hussayni was an actual Nazi and lived in Berlin under the Protection of Adolf Hitler during the war and commanded an SS brigade. He lobbied hard to get Jews sent to the gas chamber and was an ally of the final solution.

There really is just no comparison.
 
 
-14 # Shmegetti 2014-07-29 22:49
I have nothing but the highest respect for Mr. Greenwald, but this time I believe you have your facts wrong. Your pie charts are inaccurate because they don't include the intent. No one wants civilians especially children being hurt let alone killed.
Hamas has sent thousands of rockets into Israel aimed at the centers of civilian population. It's only because of Israel's technological superiority that they have been able to destroy Hamas' rockets leaving a very low number of civilians hurt. Mr. Greenwald would you feel that Israel was justified if they didn't have the Iron Dome and thousands of it's citizens were dying?. Hamas' Charter says they are sworn to the destruction of Israel. How would you feel if America had thousands of rockets coming into it's airspace!
I hope there is a peacful way out of this. I agree that Gaza has become a ghetto but Hamas is not the answer. Their leader who was just interviewed by Charley Rose, said he doesn't want a two state solution, he will never recognize Israel's right to exist.
 
 
-5 # brux 2014-07-31 13:27
More good valid factual points ... that will be ignored and voted down by the RSN fake-progressiv e pro-terrrorist sock puppets here.
 
 
-6 # Rockster 2014-07-30 01:26
I just waded thru all these comments and the only one that seems meaningful or true is the poem quoted. The rest of it is just facile smart guys with an attitude showing off
 
 
+9 # fenox 2014-07-30 01:59
Well BRUX, there must be something wrong with you. Out if these 84 comments, 23 are yours.
So probably you suppose people would like to know your opinion? And there you get into trouble, because 250 dislikes
on your comments made you understand that a big majority dislikes hat you have to say. So stop it.
 
 
-5 # brux 2014-07-31 13:25
Fuck off asshole ... you seem to be strongly implying that an unpopular point of view should be censored or banned.

Ever heard of that saying by Gandhi:

“First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, and then you win.”

You and your buddies are going to lose, show that you have even a small amount of humanity and intelligence and switch sides.
 
 
+2 # Pikewich 2014-08-01 13:46
Clearly delusional.
 
 
+6 # fenox 2014-07-30 07:28
Brux, the number of dislikes is 452 by now. Looks as if your Aipec ideas don't have much success!
 
 
+7 # tedrey 2014-07-30 09:39
Unless he actually is trying to get dislike marks. The Buffalo Guy wrote above
"Hey Brux! I'm impressed!!!! Over 100 red thumbs and the best I've ever done was in the 40s."

I think what they're paid to do is distract us from getting together to construct agreed plans to stop this atrocity. I have to admit I myself am guilty of being distracted.

We know they have nothing new to say. We know they lie constantly and promote mass death. Ignore them - no red thumbs . . . that's what they want.
 
 
+6 # fenox 2014-07-30 15:18
Wish you were right Tedrey, but I suspect these guys rather try with all their rubbish to monopolize the comments sector. You can see the same names on all Israel discussions. Looks as if they have no other job!!!!
 
 
-5 # brux 2014-07-31 13:23
Yes, you can see how I am monopolizing the comment section ... HAHAHAHA!
 
 
-4 # The Buffalo Guy 2014-07-30 15:07
Actually, Tedrey, I'm amazed that anyone who can think gets on this website and those that can think deserve credit. By my perspective that means they'll get a lot or red thumbs. Want them? Not really, they're insulting but it does identify who and how many idiots there are. They give you a red thumb. And their bias is obvious. They rarely enter into a dialog. Is it because they lack confidence in their opinion? I'm sick knowing there are so many biased, unthinking idiots out there and how many there are of our planet's 7 billion people. How will we ever survive as humans! I will be leaving this mess behind for a lot of loved ones.
PAID TO DISTRACT YOU? Aren't you at least a little distracted by the failure of the Palestinian leadership who again could not agree on a cease fire and Hamas then announced on their tv station, quoting, "There will be no cease fire without ending the blockade and the aggression on Gaza".
Maybe Hamas is being paid to prolong this conflict or I ask again, are they intent on committing suicide? Do they think they're winning? What is it? Why can't one of you answer that?
 
 
-5 # brux 2014-07-31 13:18
Yep, what the thumbs down on my posts say about RSN and the fake-supposed "progressives" here is that either the CIA is trying to pain progressivism as terrorism, or the terrorists are trying to co-opt stupid progressives into supporting terrorism.

In either case the number of thumbs down is just a positive for me - I just look at them as thumbs up for doing a good job of forcing people to think.
 
 
+2 # Pikewich 2014-08-01 13:49
Brux definition or "Progressive" = "willing to ignore hundreds of years of history in support of Zionism and AIPAC, right or wrong"
 
 
+2 # dsepeczi 2014-08-01 15:23
Quoting The Buffalo Guy:
Aren't you at least a little distracted by the failure of the Palestinian leadership who again could not agree on a cease fire and Hamas then announced on their tv station, quoting, "There will be no cease fire without ending the blockade and the aggression on Gaza".
Maybe Hamas is being paid to prolong this conflict or I ask again, are they intent on committing suicide? Do they think they're winning? What is it? Why can't one of you answer that?


For a little perspective, consider what an unconditional cease fire means for the Palestinians before you're so quick to dismiss Hamas for rejecting one. A cease fire without conditions means that Israel gets to bring their soldiers home and leave the Palestinians behind in their outdoor prison. For Israel, that's not a bad option. But what about the Palestinians ? What does this mean for them ? It means that they return to an ever shrinking outdoor prison that is now left in rubble. Their schools, their mosques, their power station, their hospitals and their homes have all been destroyed. An unconditional cease fire for the purpose of opening negotiations might have been possible earlier but when you stop to consider what that agreement would mean for Palestinians now, it's not hard to imagine their refusal to go back to the status quo. If you were a Palestinian living with those conditions, would you ?
 
 
-4 # BKnowswhitt 2014-07-30 16:17
Greenwald and others put Israel into the the classic 'Double Bind' where they would be damned if they do damned if they don't. At least that is the case of the present 'conflict'. I watched the current idiot leader of Hamas on Charlie Rose last night live. He avoided all instances of blame and regularly deflected Rose during questions about blame. He never mentioned the fact that Hamas started the firing of rockets and that they won't stop unless Israel comes to the table and meets all their old demands. He's a first class jackass with a bad attitude and wrongful approach and willing to watch many many die to achieve it's cause ....
 
 
-3 # BKnowswhitt 2014-07-30 20:06
As George Carlin would say and 'Fuck You Idiot Fucking Cocksuckers!' heheh just kidding .. almost .. what a bunch of pandering dumb fucks you have here in this comments section .. get a fucking life you ignorant bastards!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!11
 
 
-5 # brux 2014-07-31 13:20
Yeah ... Charlie Rose really grilled the Israeli ambassador, but he was only about half as forceful with the Palestinian representative. What can he do ... if he gets too hard on his he or his family with be threatened ... and that is the kind of human rights these fake RSN progressives seem to be for.
 
 
-5 # The Buffalo Guy 2014-07-30 16:43
This listing is close to being worn out but since I offered a bit of my opinion, I'll say just a little more. I don't mean to imply that I'm a perfect Christian but I do try to adhere to Mark 12, 28-32. That doesn't mean that I'm stupid and can't see when people act against their own best interest. I think the Palestinians in this current situation are doing exactly that. If you want to help them I would suggest finding out why there isn't pressure from their brethren in that area. I think it's because they act as loose cannons,(an individual or group who has little to no self control, does not think logically,whose grasp on reality is feeble. a seemingly misunderstood person who is in fact a walking disaster waiting to happen), and no one can talk sense to them. And they give Israel the opportunity to take advantage of the situation. Sort of suicide by cop by analogy and that may be the reason they aren't getting support from other nations. You never know what a loose cannon will do and drag you into.
 
 
+3 # Edwina 2014-07-31 10:10
Well, name-calling doesn't amount to an argument. Since 2007 Israel has carried out a blockade of Gaza, controlling everything that came in and out of Gaza, from water & food to medical supplies and consumer goods. Israeli officials talked about putting Gazans on a "diet", allowing them just enough not to starve. This is the source of the current conflict. The ceasefire of 2012 was kept by Hamas. Some small groups like Islamic Jihad did not abide by it, but 2013 was a quiet year in terms of violence. Hamas has said it would agree to the terms of the 2012 ceasefire, which requires that Israel ease the blockade, and release prisoners that Hamas considers political prisoners--memb ers of Hamas that never recived a trial and were never convicted of any violence against Israel. When the 3 Israeli teenagers were abducted, Israel claimed Hamas had done it (without providing any evidence), and marched through West Bank Palestinian communities, breaking down doors and re-arresting prisoners they had finally released as part of the ceasefire. Without any background, our media becomes part of the Israeli propaganda machine. I like the Mark Twain quote. "My country, right or wrong" is unacceptable in a democracy. No reason we should say "Israel, right or wrong".
 
 
-5 # brux 2014-07-31 13:22
The blockade was necessary since humanitarian aid to Hamas is always intercepted and used to build tunnels and rockets. It's pretty much documented so you must not care to subscribe to THAT PART OF REALITY.
 
 
+4 # Pikewich 2014-08-01 13:58
So was the expulsion of over 700,00 Palestinians in 1948, right? Up until then, Jews and Arab peoples co-existed without slaughtering each other.

If you start with the history from the end of WWI, it is easy to see how the Palestinians were systematically deprived of their homes, lands, and lives.

The current genocide is the continuation of polices bent on transferring the lands of Palestine to Israel.

And you expect them to role over and accept that displacement. To just fade away. Neither would you.

That is just a tiny bit of why so many here see your comments as ignorant and abhorrent.
 
 
+1 # Salus Populi 2014-08-01 17:38
Blockading food [Israel even calculated the number of calories per person per day needed to keep the population of Gaza [[2.1 million human beings]] just above malnutrition; they may have miscalculated, as the UN estimates childhood malnutrition at 31 per cent] prevented Hamas from using the meat and vegetables to build rockets and tunnels? No wonder the Hamas rockets are so useless, if they're made of tomatoes and carrots!
 

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