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Intro: "Talk about a change of tone. Where President Obama was passive and, frankly, semi-conscious in his debate last week, Joe Biden was amped up and ready to attack Paul Ryan at every opportunity."

Vice President Joe Biden and Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin participate in the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Pool-Rick Wilking)
Vice President Joe Biden and Republican vice presidential nominee Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin participate in the vice presidential debate at Centre College, Thursday, Oct. 11, 2012, in Danville, Ky. (AP Photo/Pool-Rick Wilking)

Joe Biden Drops the "47 Percent" Hammer

By Dan Amira, New York Magazine

11 October 12


alk about a change of tone. Where President Obama was passive and, frankly, semi-conscious in his debate last week, Joe Biden was amped up and ready to attack Paul Ryan at every opportunity. And nowhere did Biden show more fire than during an extended, impassioned diatribe on Mitt Romney's notorious "47 percent" remarks, a subject which Obama - puzzlingly, most observers agreed - failed to so much as mention last Wednesday. Biden, known as a blue-collar guy himself, seemed sincerely insulted that Romney had disparaged people who don't pay income taxes, including soldiers and seniors, and, apparently, Biden's parents and neighbors. It was a moment where Biden really seemed to take control. Check out the real-time dial of undecided voters at the bottom of the screen. Seems to have struck a nerve.

Ryan parried with the campaign's official "47 percent" defense: Romney just misspoke, and didn't mean it.

He cares about 100 percent of Americans in this country. And with respect to that quote, I think the vice president very well knows that sometimes the words don't come out of your mouth the right way.

After allowing himself a laugh with the rest of the audience, Biden responded, "But I always say what I mean. And so does Romney." your social media marketing partner


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+51 # brux 2012-10-11 21:41
Joe Biden was great tonight. He let Ryan throwing a kitchen sink of fake criticisms at him bait him into getting a bit angry, but I think it worked for him rather than against him.

Ryan and Romney are deliberately being fuzzy and just hurling insults and criticisms at the Obama administration pretending it makes sense because they're combining it with the Republican obstructionism of the last decade. They know how to strategically make hay from this kind of attacks.

The message of the Obama administration is an inherently more complex one to convey, so they should stop biting on the bait and just explain their visions while pointing out lies and inconsistencies in the Republican world view.

The crux is that it take a lot of energy to do that, and presence of mind and as Republicans toss off a few words that needs a long time to refute it wears the Democrats out ... so Obama now needs to come up with a strategy to counter this from the Republicans.
+170 # pernsey 2012-10-11 21:48
Keep telling Lyin Ryan the truth Joe...and shutting his lies down. He went to the 47% Ryan had no response, it was great!

Ryan lied throughout the whole debate just like Romney did, lets see who do I vote for 2 GOP liars that can act but have no substance or 2 Dems that actually care about people? Hmmm what shall I do?

VOTE Democratic in 2012!

Go JOE Go!!
+58 # doneasley 2012-10-12 06:14
Quoting pernsey:
... He went to the 47% Ryan had no response, it was great!... Ryan lied throughout the whole debate just like Romney did...

Pernsey, I still can't believe that two men - Mendacious Mitt and Lyin' Ryan - have built a campaign on a foundation of lies. Mitt selectd Ryan because of his "marvelous" budget that he COMPLETELY agrees with - a budget that entirely shreds the Social Safety Net that the poor and middle class depend on. They would have you believe that there's no way to solve the problems of Social Security and Medicare except to turn them over to the same people who've already robbed us of trillions in wealth.

Mitt's 47% statement was no "gaffe". It's what he and Ryan believe. They intend to follow the Norquist "NO NEW TAXES" pledge, funnel more money to the rich, and decimate all social programs and the middle class in the process. But they can't tell us that in a public forum. Ryan is a Catholic, and his Bishops and Nuns have told him that his budget is "immoral" and "severe". What more can I say?

Ryan's goddess, sociopath Ayn Rand (Google her), is on the doorstep of the White House. She believed, as do Mitt and Ryan, that "A government is the most dangerous threat to man’s rights." (Where have we heard that before?)

If we're dumb enough to elect these two, she'll be sitting in the Oval Office, and it will be the end of America as we know it.
+9 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 10:16
And the Walls come tumblin tumblin. The Walls Come tumblin, tumblin....Down
+7 # Skyelav 2012-10-12 10:42
Sociopath AND atheist..
+4 # Eldon J. Bloedorn 2012-10-12 23:00
I would hope that at some point the American people relize that most Republicans, as is true in the ANIMAL kingdom, are predators. While it is true that some corporations do serve the people well, it is usually because these corporations are well regulated. Ayn Rand supports predators. I think she maybe mentally ill. When some Republicans see a distinction between what they are as predators and honorable human values and still choose to be predators, society is destroyed for the poor and the middle class. The 1 %, as a result, just keep "eating" the poor and the middle class.
0 # Eldon J. Bloedorn 2012-10-13 20:10
Why has not one person, not one politician not commented on the real reason the Plutocrats want Medicare and Social Security crushed? Answer is, appears to be simple: employer mandated contributions. The corporations simply do not want to make these contributions for their employees. Let the middle class and the poor simply "go to hell."
-65 # jtatu 2012-10-12 09:27
The biggest most obvious whopper of all came from Biden when he said the embassy in Libya had not asked for additional security. And Biden continues to intentionally mirepresent what Romney said about the 47%. In context Romney said that the 47% who pay no Federal income tax will not vote for him no matter what; thus it is not his job to try to get them to. That's a far cry from saying he doesn't care for them. And BTW there are a significant number of free-loaders in that 47% and the Obama Administration is trying to increase that number.
+25 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 10:19
Rather have one blooper than thousands of lies and do not care attitudes. There are more freeloaders in the 1% and it too was so noted last night.
Vote for whom you want I doubt you can, you are probably in ninth grade and for how long???? Hard to move forward when you have leadership that cannot tell the truth

I would add one thing, for all of you whiners for Nit...He doesn't give a rat's ____ about a one of you. He will send you off to War and his pretty boys will be at home laughing their butts off!
+28 # Billy Bob 2012-10-12 10:58
KittatinyHawk already replied very well to most of your remark.

I'll add one thing though. The greatest wopper of all time? That's tough one. Here's a few nominees:

1. Twit saying his healthcare plan covers pre-existing conditions.
2. George jr. saying Iraq had WMDs.
3. Twit saying he always paid at least 13% even though we don't deserve any proof.
4. Republicans suddenly getting behind Twit as though he wasn't the Wall Street whore you already knew he was during the primaries.
5. The idea that 47% of the country are freeloaders, coming from a man that appears to never pay ANYTHING in taxes unless he's running for President.

Take your pick.

If you want more, I'll gladly supply them for you.
+110 # Billy Bob 2012-10-11 21:49
...And all the time, ayn ryan sits their with that same stupid smug expression. What is it with these people and the empty-headed smirk?!

Anyway, of course yahoo headlines are at it again. Look at some of the crap yahoo users are being subjected to this evening:

1. "Team Romney: Biden was ‘off balance’ and ‘strange’ "
2. "Ryan to Biden: ‘I know you’re under duress to make up for lost ground’ "
3. "Poll: Romney leads Obama in Florida by 7 points"
4. "Biden, the anti-Obama, brings exasperation to debate with Ryan: With moderator Martha Raddatz at the helm, the 90-minute conversation began fairly civilly, and grew increasingly snippy."


and earlier tonight:

1. "With time running out, Biden has the bigger task tonight"
2. "Poll: Romney leads Obama in Florida by 7 points"
3. "How Biden became America's favorite punch line"
4. "Team Obama hopes Biden can halt GOP's momentum"
5. "Swing state polls show Mitt Romney on the rise"
6. "Store owner's controversial Obama protest"


Team Yahoo is DEFINITELY on Team Twit's side, and is DEFINITELY invested in the outcome of this election!

Any right-wingers want to entertain us with some more of that "left-wing media" canard?!? That one always cracks me up!
+45 # warrior woman 2012-10-12 03:54
New York Times is the same. Biden CLEARLY schooled Ryan.
+24 # allie 2012-10-12 08:57
It's been as plain as the nose on your face, all media is giving Romney every advantage and have called the election in his favor.
+27 # Billy Bob 2012-10-12 09:32
They're clearly invested in the outcome. It's a conflict of interests. I believe the one thing repugs and the corporate media have in common is their relationship to BIG OIL, and the for-profit military industrial complex.
+28 # Linda 2012-10-12 07:40
Billybob ,So was CNN lopsided in their view of the debate !They said they had a poll where we could vote for who won the debate. Well myself and a sh-t load of others who wanted to vote for Biden couldn't because there was no such poll ! Their poll was actually a controlled group of just over 300 people they chose," which must have been mostly Republican's ," because they said Ryan won !
Sense when does a little of 300 people constitute a fair poll when so many people who would have voted for Biden were left out ?
The moderator at one of these control groups got caught with her pants down when she called on a lady to ask her why she thought Ryan won and she said,, I didn't ,,I don't like these debates and I don't think anyone won ,lol.
I guess the moderator chose the wrong plant to ask !
Biden won that debate hands down and he called Ryan on all the false information he was saying about Obama's Health Care plan and all the other lies he was telling !
Sense when do the American people think the guy who can tell the most lies in a debate is the winner ? Romney told 27 lies and fact check also called Ryan on all of his lies about everything from Obama Care to Iran's capability to make a nuclear weapon !

Biden is a veteran at foreign affairs and Ryan isn't and Biden made that clear . Ryan fumbled his way through !
+30 # Billy Bob 2012-10-12 09:30
You're absolutely right. After the last "debate" Yahoo and immediately declared Twit the "winner". After this one, their headline reads:

"Love or hate him, Joe dominates the conversation the day after"

What the hell does that even mean? Obviously the fact that he wiped the floor with ryan is unpopular with their editors.

When Twit interrupted constantly he was viewed as "more aggressive and energetic". When Biden refused to bow down and let ryan have a complete reign, he was viewed as "rude".
+15 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 10:28
What did I tell you, it is never a win situation and these casters will bludgeon it to death...
We all know that Biden hit the Ball and Homeruns were aimed to the American Public.
+7 # Billy Bob 2012-10-12 14:49
The yahoo spin has now morphed into:

"Was Joe Biden too mean for ‘Iowa nice’ voters?: 'I thought Joe did a great job, but I wish that he didn’t interrupt so much.' ”

Apparently a Democrat CAN'T win a debate in the opinion of the right-wing press.
+7 # Cassandra2012 2012-10-12 16:39
Did they notice the twit interrupting both Obama and Lehrer over and over and over again?
+3 # Billy Bob 2012-10-12 18:07
They seem awfully selective about that fact don't they? In fact, when Twit did it, he was showing confidence and energy.

The idea is that if a Democrat is polite, then he's lethargic, doesn't really care, uninterested, too tired, the job's too much for him and it's getting to him, too much of a pansy and can't stand up and fight like a man, etc.

If, on the other hand, the Democrat is bold and assertive (especially with facts, which is something they REALLY hate), then he's too abrassive, obnoxious, rude, etc.

The way to win is DON'T be the Democrat.
+17 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 10:26
ABC, CBS both showed the debate went for Biden, in polls...conside rably. Later on News was the same So I do believe the other Media have their heads up their ____

Biden had facts, Biden spoke truthfully, sadly. Biden understands America It was an excellent discussion. Moderator kept control, she was a lil inexperienced but she did an excellent job vs OB Debate
+21 # David Starr 2012-10-12 09:01
@Billy Bob: Quoting: "And all the time, ayn ryan sits their with that same stupid smug expression. What is it with these people and the empty-headed smirk?!"

It's in thier political nature to give a conceited smirk. Look at W (Witless). He couldn't wipe the smirk off his face. I find it a mutation of looking aristocratic-li ke and smirking like a weasel.
+16 # Billy Bob 2012-10-12 09:33
They can't conceal their aristocratic arrogance.
+131 # gslusher 2012-10-11 21:51
WAY TO GO, JOE! I loved how Ryan just sat there with that silly, forced half-grin pasted on his face. He didn't take it seriously.
+19 # maddave 2012-10-11 23:53
Concur. Great show by Joe, BUT we ain't out of the woods yet! Obama has to do his job next Tuesday and then do it again in the final debate.

And take no prisoners, Barrack . . . However, if you think you must , Mister President, then do so . . . BUT keep in mind that you will have to feed them out of your own mess-kit and with your own rations.
+12 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 10:34
OB I know a bunch of us will be more than happy to tie them up and give them fair three meals a day. Mostly GMO Food with some Fracking Water. But we will abide by the Geneva Convention
Like Big Bird and many more, we got your back
+35 # Jorge 2012-10-12 00:01
Way to go Joe!!! Eddie Munster Ryan was drinking a lot of water and gulping... he was not used to someone calling him out on the Big Lies. Instead of answering a question Lyin Ryan would spin a fake tear-jerk story meant to distract from the Repug lies. Joe showed some stones taking on the Teapublican spokesman. Congrats.
+8 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 10:36
Joe was no front lines as much as nit was doing missionary work in France in Nam.

Now of all the nice field jobs for missionary work...France. What was he praying for the grapes for harvest? I could understand if he said he was in Africa, India, So America but France...
Whew these people know how to sling the bs
+31 # maddave 2012-10-12 00:06
This was all fun and games tonight, but DO NOT slack off. WE must keep pushing until we win.

At stake are nothing less than:
1. Our losing the Supreme Court & our Federal judicial system to the 1% for well past he the foreseeable future; and
2. More insane military ground action in the Middle East. In a campaign speech at Virginia Military Institute earlier this week, Romney seemed intent upon expanding our military actions to include Syria, Libya and Iran. Do you think that HIS sons will ever see a gun fired in anger? No, I don't either!
+31 # Eldon J. Bloedorn 2012-10-12 03:42
Am the only one who saw Ryan consistently "reach for his water glass?"
Joe did what he had to do. And he did it well!
+29 # Linda 2012-10-12 07:53
No your not ,lol ! A caller into Cspan after the debate said Ryan needed to see his doctor because he must have diabetes because he drank so much water !
He had dry mouth from nervousness having to tell lies to Biden's face and scared to death he would be called on them ,"which Biden did wonderfully ,".
+10 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 10:39
Even when not gulping water for dry mouth, he was swallowing trying to keep up. He had no facts to disprove anything
I laughed when Biden brought up the money for pet projects, which didn't even create jobs...I laughed again when I wondered how much the Rethugs cost again in having to investigate their grab for money from Feds.
I heard no rebuttal because the investigation brought the egg facers out.
Too many loans, grants to these sleazes to get their buddies and relatives jobs
+18 # bmiluski 2012-10-12 09:25
Oh lyin ryan took it seriously. He knew he was getting his international clock cleaned.
I love the half truths he tried to sneak by Biden. The one about not having enough American troops going into a very dangerous area in Afghanistan and JB saying over and over again it was because we had MORE AFGHAN troops going in.
Also, the whole Israel vs. USA misrepresentati on by ryan I loved how JB first of all refering to Netanyahu by his first name and telling him just how much communication goes on between President Obama and "bebe".
+8 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 10:41
Israel knows how to play the two parties against each other...believe me. They will bow and curtsy to whoever gets in ...very good actors
+7 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 10:33
I do believe he didnpt know what to do with hisself...once you are conscious of smirking what else can you do. He did have some swallow moments. He was not happy but as young and dumb, what else did you expect. He could not rebutt his own votes, nits votes. Nor could he rebutt the facts eso 47% unsult. He lead Ryan into the need to continue Wars, spending on Wars. Seems too many missed that. Just didn't tell people it wouldn't be the 1% serving in these wars...this is the jobs nit was talking about your sons and daughters, perhaps grandchildren going to war...dying or being ill the rest of their lives with no benefits, good hospital. Other wise Bain is continuing to buy up companies and lay off people that is Corporate America and Mormon Pyramid Scheme along with other evil churches
+132 # Virginia 2012-10-11 21:56
Joe won hands down... Smirks aside. When you have a natural smiley personality it's hard not to smile at absurdities. Leveling the playing field is essential for the survival of the middle class.

The best way to get to that point is to recognize the fact that the Wall Street securitization Ponzi scheme was an intentional fraud on all homeowners from 2003-2008 and continues to stagnate the economic recovery because the banks have not been brought to justice.

Foreclosure, eviction and deficiency moratorium NOW - and the road to recovery will open up.
+28 # vicnada 2012-10-11 22:03
Biden smoked Ryan.

Seasoned, reasoned, articulate, square-jawed -- leaving Ayn Rand's prodigy wimpering on the sidelines. The drama is summed up in the final question: "Name one unique personal trait that others don't have that would make you qualified for this job" (I'm paraphrasing). Ryan blurts out "honesty". Honesty! HONESTY?! Ayn Rand hubris all over again: "No one has it but me".

Then watch Biden pause a moment to listen and touch some human experience that can resonate with his audience...some vulnerability that bespeaks his humanity (read, honesty). Then he said what he meant. Simply so.

Obama, lesson learned. Leave the debates to your VP.
+23 # Linda 2012-10-12 07:56
Right Honesty ,,I laughed when he said that after all the lies he told ! He was fact checked and Lyin Ryan came out a big liar once again just as Romney did with his 27 lies !
+39 # df312 2012-10-11 22:08
Biden cleaned his clock. But on another tangent, I'd like to get past the lie that "47% (or more) pay no taxes". I actually have a copy of the congressional document from which that is taken, and what it actually is talking about is people who have no additional tax liability at the end of the year. The great majority of those who break even or get a couple of bucks back due to overpayment HAVE PAID THEIR FAIR SHARE OF TAXES IN FULL and even loaned the country money tax-free for the year. That's is what the truth is. And I got that document from none other than Orrin Hatch, who apparently failed to read it.
+13 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 10:43
Get it posted, take it to public meetings...get RSN to post so their journalists can make a show of it.

the only freeloaders are the 1%
+28 # michelle 2012-10-11 22:17
Phew! Great job calling Ryan on the misrepresentati ons and well let's face it, the lies. Biden was excellent. He knew the facts, the policy and the hidden agenda of RR. Ryan looked like a deer in the headlights, especially with the abortion question.

A small observation though. I noticed Ryan was drinking water throughout the debate. I counted two full glasses but at the end of the debate it showed he had four glasses of water under the desk while Biden had two untouched glasses on his side. It crossed my mind during the Obama/Romney debate that Romney was flushed, hyper-animated and fast talking, like an old speed freak. Now Ryan can't get the water in fast enough. What's going on with republican candidates?
+8 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 10:45
Drugs, the Republican deal them so why not see if they work. They do you look like raving idiots or scared. Hopefully we can show our children why not to use two poster boys
+22 # Walhalla 2012-10-11 22:41
I am bursting to tell "Biden for President",any time - after Obama, of course.
+11 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 10:46
While everyone has bad mouth Biden I have always said I believe he would have been the good one for the job.
Now over 80% said they have more confidence now in Biden to take over than before...Yahoo
+34 # CL38 2012-10-11 22:49
I'll bet Republicans never make fun of Joe, again.

Love his humor, mocking lyin'Ryan.

Biden is our hero!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
+11 # bmiluski 2012-10-12 09:27
Please, they'll keep trying to make fun of him. Did anyone watch Charlie Rose last night? He had on the uber-republican hack Rich Lowrey who's only comments were about JB's behavior rather than the fact that JB uncovered every lie that ryan tried to spew.
+16 # brux 2012-10-12 09:56
YES, Huffington Post had a video of the FOX News hosts who were completely taken aback that they had to swallow some of their own medicine.

This works, and it is about time after many elections now where Democrats have just taken this kind of rudeness and lies from Republicans that they stand up and punch back.

I am proud of Biden and I hope Jumpin' Joe has set a new precedent and standard for Democratic debate!
+1 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 10:46
A elitist bore
+38 # juliajayne 2012-10-11 23:30
What can I say? I love Joe Biden. He has heart, he sometimes wears his heart on his sleeve, he makes gaffes but he is for real. And I'm liking real right about now. That phony baloney from the other camp is so much "stuff" as Biden pointed out. Good job, Joe! I can only hope the president gives as good next week.
+28 # Majikman 2012-10-11 23:47
Little Eddie was running as fast as his little brain could manage to remember his talking points. Poor little dry mouthed liar was sipping water constantly. And he's the brainy one? OY!
Joe took him apart without breaking a sweat like the pro attack dog that he is.
That was fun to watch.
+5 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 10:51
Brainy??? Prompted, cloned, input generated but brainy Na
He has been in so many guffaws saying one budget than nittnes corrects and then he says another...I do not listen because neither have the story straight or any written documentation. Per Usual it is hearsay.
OB may not be perfect but he at least has some background, has conferred, and has accomplishments , I never expected him to get the economy balanced in 4 years after 8 years of destroying a balanced budget. I also saw that the stops to bringing jobs back were all kept after the Dems lost control of House.
Only ones who benefit from jobs outsourced are Rethugs and Corporate Cretins
+32 # lourdmar 2012-10-11 23:50
Great job Joe! I think Ryan didn't know what hit him, he's not used to hearing the truth with such passion.
Way to go!
+35 # George Kennedy 2012-10-12 00:01
Joe Biden is a peoples' champion. He understands their fears and speaks to their hopes for a better deal in America. Unlike Romney-Ryan, he not only can talk the talk, but, more importantly, he continues to walk the walk. The American people saw someone tonight that they would rather have in their life's foxhole than the hollowed out duo of Romney-Ryan.
+36 # dawn99 2012-10-12 00:08
I loved it when Joe said that if bush had been allowed to privatize SS as, r and r want to, the WHOLE thing would have been lost in '07 and '08.

When ryan WITH AYN RAND ALL OVER HIS HISTORY AND FILM said that he cares about the poor and less-fortunate, that was a pathetic lie.

NO republican should EVER talk about anything Canada does with out understanding that FREE health care CHANGES all other numbers
+28 # Art947 2012-10-12 00:10
Paul Ryan is a totally ignorant, lying piece of trash! His knowledge of the facts was dismal. His lies were outrageous. His ability to present a coherent program was unbelievable. Joe Biden wiped the floor with this idiot's comments. G-d forbid that this character ever gets to the Oval Office or any place near it. He should also be thrown out of office from the Congress. What a disaster this child is! Go Rob Zerban! Go Joe Biden! Go Barack Obama!
+16 # bmiluski 2012-10-12 09:29
Don't kid yourself, he knows the facts. But he has to spin them (even if it takes a bold-faced lie to do it) into something the republicans can use to discredit President Obama. Unfortunately for him, Joe Biden called him out on them every time he repeated them.
+29 # X Dane 2012-10-12 00:11
I have always liked Biden. He is REAL, so at times he chews to much on his foot, that does not change the fact that he does know what he is talking about, and he is fearless.

I can understand his incredulous smile,when Ryan went off on a lying spree ....but THEN he went on to refute the lies and he was passionate, and did not let Ryan get away with anything.

It was also crystal clear that if Romney/Ryan were to win,...Roe versus Wade would be gone very fast. There is NO tolerance for OUR rights. It's their way or the highway.

They will also gut medicare, and who knows what they will do about social security...they will not tell us.

I am sure a lot of people can see the writing on the wall.
+8 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 10:56
Let us hope they do the right thing for once in their lives.
I hope they get out to vote. They vote out the Congress and Senate, Governors and State Persons. We have to show Politicians and their Corporate Shills who is boss because we may not get a next time...Power does evil things to evil people.
+37 # Art947 2012-10-12 00:26
I just finished re-watching the program with Ryan and Biden. Paul Ryan's statements about Catholics and public policy probably set back the course of religious tolerance more than 200 years! As VP Biden said, Catholics have every right to practice their religious beliefs as they are taught to them by their Church; they have no right to impose their religious doctrine on those who do not believe in the tenets of Catholicism!
+4 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 11:06
Yes to all Religions, we are out of the Dark Ages so if you want all Ye Faithful to stay Faithful I suggest getting back to Religion and out of Politics ....It didn't work before and you lost Members...gonna continue until you start teaching love, acceptance, learn to live with others.
I am talking all Faiths.
God never told anyone to put Politics before him...Said Do Not put False Gods Before Me. These Aholes think they are God as do many of these phony pyramid scheme Churches, Temples. Jesus went into the Temple and thru the gamblers, those who defied his father but putting up false gods. He pissed the Jews off that day. there was to be Shaker type of Faith no extravagant Cathedrals or Temples. The money was to be used to feed the Multitudes as Jesus proved over and over.
Religion was used by man to have dominance and submission over man's fears not to uphold any Faith. Man needs no Building to Worship the Creator. One only needs to go outside and see the splendors, to sit in a Church and told who to vote for is Evil. Satan is on your door step in the Guise of Religion... Faith is in your heart, mind. You need not pay for the Creator. He only asked that you give back. You are paying again so others can live better than you...why? Pretty dumb
+29 # wipster 2012-10-12 00:37
Not only do I feel that Joe did a great job against Lyin' Ryan, but for this debate there was a great moderator! Martha Raddatz of ABC News did a great job of keeping both candidates on time and on track, without favoring either of them. IMHO, she was the best moderator I've seen in the last several Presidential elections. I look forward to the debate next Tuesday with Candy Crowley moderating... because it's a town hall style it will be more difficult to control, but Candy doesn't take any crap off of anyone she interviews, so I'm confident she too will do a great job (as well as the President, as this is more of his type of event).
+16 # MindDoc 2012-10-12 01:13
Aside from all else - and I am pleasantly surprised to see the comments of college-age and/or looking-for-wor k populations across social media, like "anyone else think Biden just kicked a**? - for me the payoff for this debate was Biden specifically underscoring how FACTS DO MATTER. OTOH, I can see both the GOP spinners and most within big-money media are already getting out their juvenile set of scoring points: Did you see him smiling? Wasn't he condescending? I give Biden great marks for sitting there without vomiting or getting worked up, and for calmly stating FACTS and beliefs about Americans, the real WE.
As Ryan re-set into a few over-used talking points, or grinned.

Does a "win" or "loss" matter, in correcting the big bounce, or buying time until Debate #2? (Stock up on that popcorn!)

To me there are still bigger questions - we know the positions and the characters (where there is any). Questions like, what's the impact of all the early-voting before Obama self-immolation ? Will Romney be called on any of his positions one day versus the next? Will some fact checkers explain how numbers are being used to camouflage real-world trends, or Romney's math to suck up more loot while eliminating middle class deductions and basic societal supports? Ideas are great, combined with facts. Integrity, honesty, consistency - icing on the cake.

My fear is "fatigue", all around, from all the BS and spin, and etch-a-sketch resets.
+33 # MainStreetMentor 2012-10-12 01:26
It's called "backbone" ... and Joe exhibited it in spades! The way to defeat a bully, as Joe knows, is to confront him with the truth! Good job, Joe!
+18 # outthereaswell 2012-10-12 01:51
When a Mr. Biden, or whomever, finally says “enough” and tries to kindly, within the bounds of proper decorum, hold in his outrage and simply press for bringing the real facts to light, we and Mr. Ryan are better for those moments. Fair, valuable and mutually beneficial competition requires both sides to do their best. Mr. Biden’s bite-backs do exactly that. They encourage better. It’s that simple, and everyone wins for the approach.

We are all outraged when great moderators do not even open the door for accountability, much less press for and demand it. Martha did not go for the definitive “jugular” of either candidate, but she stopped the wheel just long enough for the candidates to take the bate and close in.

In the previous Presidential debate, President Obama actually did “show up” but never eviscerated his deserving opponent because he clearly felt that logic would win the day. History teaches us that “logic” against hollow claims to do better simply cannot work with the audience. As illustrated here with Mr. Biden and Mr. Ryan, facts and accountability in real time show an empty claim for what it is -empty.

In her own small way Martha helped to nudge the accountability in debate politics toward a more healing direction for all sides, including the moderators. This should make for better debates and at least for brief moments where one would hope that both sides of the aisle saw a healthier, fairer light.
+15 # overanddone 2012-10-12 03:06
Way to go Joe!
+19 # lollie 2012-10-12 04:09
Joe did a great job!!! Clearly the winner. How could this be a tie? I don't get it.
+19 # freeportguy 2012-10-12 04:45
Romney so "misspoke" that for DAYS afterward, he did NOT take anything back and maintained his position! Actually he did for SEVENTEEN DAYS!!

Only AFTER he took a plunge in the polls did he say he had misspoken!
+23 # tuandon 2012-10-12 05:55
Mittens and the Twerp don't care about 99% of the people. They love the 1%, or, more truly, the.1%. The rest of us are on our own, and if they win, we are doomed.
+20 # Linda 2012-10-12 08:14
I thought the most telling part of the debate was when the moderator asked them how their religious beliefs would play a part in their governing .
Ryan said he doesn't understand how anyone can separate their personal beliefs from their job ! He went on to say how he felt about abortion ! Well if he doesn't understand the first amendment then he doesn't deserve to be Vice President !
Our elected officials should not govern by their own personal religious beliefs, religion has no place in government !
We are a diverse country with many religions and some of us practice no religion this is one of the reason's why religion has no place in government ! Biden gave the right answer to that question ,he said what his beliefs were but also said he was not going to judge others by his religious beliefs or tell a woman what she can and can not do with her own body ! This is how our leaders should lead !
+6 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 11:17
I wondered just how this would go, Ryan swallowed hard and lied
Biden spoke the truth, I must do my job for all. I will continue to be a Catholic and give my Church its due.

Sure Glad because you cannot worship two Gods. For the Republicans they worship more like Heathens...anyt hing that has money, power .... God said you cannot put another God before me. Guess these people only read what they want.
+4 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 11:14
No if we allow them to win, we must then rise up as a Nation and let them all know that we will not tolerate being traded off as slaves.
I hope we win because I want the Draft back and no exceptions. If you want to pay off to let your kids not go, then you lose your home must leave the USA. I want one for all and all for one, time to put up or shut up.
I am tired of the tear jerk remarks about john the soldier...these cretins do not care about the soldier, they have nothing in common. Making deals with Brass is all they have in mind, selling China goods to our Phone Systems They do not stop for a moment..just steal jobs, destroy America.

Where will the next battalions come from...YOUR KIDS and Grankids Do not fool yourselves, Nitters kids aint serving, he didn't
+18 # fredboy 2012-10-12 06:04
I just mailed in my vote for Obama and Biden. Biden earned it.

While I am a lifetime Democrat, I for the first time feel cheap and cheated. I voted for the lesser of two presidential candidates that I know will be disappointments.

Trust is essential in leadership. It comes down to two essential components: competence and duty. And sincerity--what some might call heart. I and most I know have little trust in either presidential candidate. One ignores the truth, while the other seems as if he could care less.
+5 # brux 2012-10-12 10:16
You know that mail in ballots in many cases around the country are not counted.

Greg Palest ... check out his BallotBandits.O rg wrote a book about the many ways the vote is stolen, and says specifically - DO NOT GO POSTAL - your vote may not be counted.
+6 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 11:20
I would say that vote is sad. OB has done what he could to be a president. He is human, He didnot take full use of his Congress in first year but he got balls rolling.
None of us were braced for the Evil that came in 09. Now we can change it.
Biden well he is the working Joe you all wanted, but you all disrespected him.
I am glad you voted, hope you have made copy. But you have voted for men who do give a crap, that is more than I can say of any Rethug in Office today
+32 # walt 2012-10-12 06:07
Not a word said by Joe Biden was anything other than the truth. And he had the guts to say it well.

Ryan came across as the sniveling whiner he is known to be.
+12 # m... 2012-10-12 06:32
Where were the actual 'cajones' of actual LEADERSHIP over these past 4 years?Why are we supposed to cheer a 'Coached Debate Acting' success.?
If Obama wants to change the tone and turn the election, then he can't 'perform' tough, etc. next debate. He has no choice but to take a firm STAND on principles and ideas DESPITE Polls.
For one, he could use that time to define just what the entire 'Smaller Government' ..'Less Government'.. 'Privatization of Government' Republican umbrella talking points have led all of us to-- perhaps the END of Republic..!
He could point to it and ask the simple question-- WHY DOESN"T ANYONE QUESTION THIS?
30 years of it has led to what?-- A whole lot less Government of WE THE PEOPLE and a whole lot more Government by GLOBAL Corporate Lobby. A Government which has been expensively 'for-profit' corporate contracted into a million democracy-usele ss Bits and highly corporate-profi table Pieces.
We live in a Deregulated Nightmare. We have ben plundered.
Smaller Government has given 1% control over 25% of the Nation's Wealth and untold power and dominion over all of us along with the ever greater ease to seize evermore wealth and power here and around the entire world.
SAY IT OBAMA-- Because its true!
If you believe in the value of Government AND the American People, then SELL IT hard and passionately against the backdrop of the now provable FAILURE OF SMALLER GOVERNMENT.
+6 # brux 2012-10-12 10:19

I certainly have been, and you have some good points, but our choice now is Obama or Romney, that is it.

The only time Democrats even seem to get elected is when the Republicans do something so outrageous people get mad at them, but eventually they forget. That has to change, and the Democrats actually have to change to. The country however, must force them, like FDR said.
+2 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 11:27
You want cajones instead of truth go watch the Housewives of NJ.
I want dignified Person to speak the truth, I hope now make the Points he can.

After you all voted in 2008 where did you go. Did you organize, start community groups. Did you take part in local, county, state government by going to meetings. No. You want, You want...You sound like Christy of NJ. Spoiled Brats who want everything done for them.
Well too bad. Smaller rst you got to get involved on the ground floor with neighbors, friends, businesses, students to lay a floor plan, bring it to meetings and get it started. No one did just kept buying foreign goods and not giving a crap about Business, Lives, Jobs just your life and stuff.
Do you understand You created this mess.
Did you protest, join OWS, do anything...most on here an other sites have done nothing but criticize. Well, don't bother. Either put up or shut up.
Don't talk the talk we hear it from Rethugs daily and we know they like you cannot walk the walk.
Want something done and done well, than do it yourself. Now is the time to get everyone involved. If we lose this election, that too is all your faults.
+1 # Cassandra2012 2012-10-12 16:49
-34 # rmccormack 2012-10-12 08:30
The Left is whistling past the graveyard with these comments. Your problem is that a majority of the country disagrees with redistributioni st policies and allowing our Ambassadors and their staff to be murdered after requesting additional security from their "leaders" and being turned down. The majority disagrees that the United States needs to be cut down to size among the nations of the world or that Obama needs to be reelected so he can be more "flexible" with defending our national interests against Putin's Russia. In other words, most Americans don't think like Leftists and blame America first for the problems of the world. Romney-Ryan is going to win big on November 6 because a majority of Americans believe in the ideals that led to the Declaration of Independence and Constitution so many have died to defend.
+20 # bmiluski 2012-10-12 09:23
You are very wrong. Which doesn't surprise me since I've read some of the republican drivel that is being sent out to you people.
The majority of the "American people believe that the upper 10% are NOT paying their fair share of taxes. It is the neo-cons that are spinning that into "redistribution " and people like you are falling for it.
-21 # jtatu 2012-10-12 10:19
Well said, rmccormack.
+2 # David Starr 2012-10-14 13:18
@jtatu: Badly said, jtatu. But you two do need each other for mutual "child support."
+11 # brux 2012-10-12 10:22
> The majority disagrees that the United States needs to be cut down to size among the nations of the world

If that was true it really doesn't matter because now what is cutting us down to size as you put it is an economy that makes being an active super-power not as easy as it once was.

Bush cutting taxes to disastrous levels and Romney's insistence that we increase military spending and add to the deficit instead of attacking the real problem of investing in and building the economy is the problem!
+5 # Art947 2012-10-12 15:35
I would suggest that rmccormack really read what our founders wrote and said in the formation of this Union. One of the major principles that they believed in was for this nation NOT to become engaged in foreign conflicts. They did not believde that going to war with other nations was in their best interests. Please note that nowhere in our Constitution does it say that we should be the "policemen" of the world!

You might also note that spending more on weapons and systems of weaponry does NOT make us stronger. In fact, it makes us weaker as a nation when we have insufficient funds to help our fellow Americans live and improve our nation.
+1 # David Starr 2012-10-14 13:15
Quoting rmccormack: "The Left is whistling past the graveyard with these comments." And you're in the graveyard with one foot in the grave. Your rant is like a worn out rerun of Manifest Destiny doctrine. Who is this majority you're refering to? Why do you use the term "national interests" in an ultrantionalist form? Do you even know what a Leftist is? Why does your confidence in Romney/Ryan sound merely like a political wet dream? How would Romney/Ryan defend the ideals of the Declaration of Independence and the Constituion? You've got me curious.
-18 # fredboy 2012-10-12 08:42
It is sad when a president does not have enough courage or intelligence to raise the 47 percent question, and his vice president has to do it for him. Tragic. And disgraceful. I think we needed to switch the ticket at the convention, and moving Biden to the top spot, picking a new VP, and allowing Obama to retire to his cushy professorship in the islands.
+20 # bmiluski 2012-10-12 09:37
Whats tragic and disgraceful is that a presidential candidate has to lie and twist facts around in order to come across as benign. President Obama was absolutely flabergasted at the audacity of the lies that spewed out of romney's mouth which showed an incredible disrespect for not only President Obama but for the American public.
+4 # Art947 2012-10-12 15:40
Are you for real Fredboy? These "debates" are supposed to give the American voter an opportunity to hear the candidates ideas for governing and improving our nation. Pres. Obama tried to use his time in the program to give the American people information to make an informed decision. Only idiots -- including the pundits in the MSM - look for the election to be a "horse race" or a pissing contest. It is truly a shame when the "winner" of a conversation is the one who bullies and lies the most. VP Biden only raised the 47% issue when he needed to confront the robotic talking-point spouter, Paul Ryan, on his perception of the nature of the American population.
+4 # Cassandra2012 2012-10-12 16:51
Yes, Mormon/Mammon twit was no more than a bullying used-car salesman!
+4 # David Starr 2012-10-12 09:07
With Biden's performance, is it possible Team Obama is developing a political spine? I still wonder. Hopefully there's not a redux of Obama's nonresponses in his next debate with Mitt Pinochio Romney.
+3 # KittatinyHawk 2012-10-12 11:31
I believe that your Vice President should speak on matters, after all he is next in line.
Most of you do not even realize he did help balance budget with Delaware. He also helped private sector and union jobs.
Most of you did nothing but criticize this man for four look who's laughing!
To have replied to MethaMitt would have been hard for anyone Moderator did not handle the debate, or have control I figured he wouldn't as he is a bore
+2 # David Starr 2012-10-12 12:30
@KittatinyHawk: This is actually the first time I criticized Biden, implying it anyway. Leher should be replaced as monitor. With Leher screwing up, that does make it an obstacle in responding to Romney. But that still doesn't excuse Obama's nonresponses in the face of obvious misdeeds by Romney He had the "ammunition." But he hardly "fired."
-11 # Martintfre 2012-10-12 10:11
Soon the 47% becomes 50.001% and ...

"Democracy... while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide."
John Adams
+7 # David Starr 2012-10-12 12:56
@Martinfre: Adams cynically ignored the obvious consequences of aristocracy and monarchy, which are just as bloodier. "

Democracy is when the indigent, not the men of property, are the rulers."
-- Aristotle

"As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy."
-- Abraham Lincoln
+1 # Eldon J. Bloedorn 2012-10-13 05:07
Not so sure you are quoting John Adams. Can you direct me to a reference as regards this quote? Sounds more like a Sean Hannity quote.
-14 # Martintfre 2012-10-12 10:16
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."

Where are we in the sequence?
I say between apathy to dependence and dependence back to bondage

There are good reasons why we were created as a constitutionall y limited republic.
+7 # David Starr 2012-10-12 13:09
@Martinfre: Quoting: "A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury." As opposed to a few under aristocracy, monarchy, and an unequal relationship of capital over labor, where they can get generous gifts from exclusive monopolies, private and/or public? So you are for too few receiving too many gifts and many "crumbs?" That doesn't sound like the human species finding essential commonalities within itself, and knowing how the other guy feels.
+2 # Eldon J. Bloedorn 2012-10-13 19:59
Your comments may surprise lots of citizens in Denmark, Sweden, Finland, etc. A form of Democracy has existed for hundreds of years in these countries. And the citizens, for the most part are happy. Most Animals in the animal kingdom are predators. Those, we all know, which are not do not eat other animals. In the animal kingdom, which animals "eat their own?" Have to look far and wide for the exceptions. Humans, part of the animal kingdom, have been known to practice canibalism. True in isolated cases, cultures. Democracy starts going to hell when the human predators start eating the less fortunate financially, not bodily. These less fortunates are usually not able to defend themselves. At some point, the strong among the non-predators for whatever reasons deemed for the common good start defending the less fortunate. If enough public awareness is created, that of the strong non-predators wanting to protect the basically good from the predators, the power gains momentum. Then, we have the start of Democracy. This is where strong people like Joe Biden take on predators like Paul Ryan and expose them to public ridicule. The Paul Ryan's look like predators, liars to the public. I then make sure nothing prevents me from voting for honorable humans like Joe Biden.
+12 # hkrueger 2012-10-12 11:35
Republicans are backwards, because they want to be. they are afraid to admit they are wrong, reg: Healthcare, Warfare, Soc. security etc. They prefer to avoid paying taxes because they really don't give a hoot about this country or anyone else. They gamble with our money, loose it and blame it on the Democrats - all of the world thinks we are a Nut case!!
-6 # fredboy 2012-10-12 12:23
"President Obama was absolutely flabergasted at the audacity of the lies that spewed out of romney's mouth which showed an incredible disrespect for not only President Obama but for the American public."
A real President with real courage would have confronted such obvious wrongdoing and challenged each false assertion. Obama instead chose to lower his eyes, bow his head, and let the lies linger unchallenged. We need a President who will stand up for the truth. And our nation.
-5 # fredboy 2012-10-12 12:41
By the way, if Obama is afraid to debate Romney, I will happy to stand in for him. Like Biden, I came from a hard-working family that rose from the poverty of the Great Depression and taught us to stand up to bullies and expose lies. It would be a joy and honor to stand in for him if he is unwilling or unable to debate with honor, intelligence and vigor.
+5 # worldviewer 2012-10-12 16:02

But more important is that they would be be utterly incompetent as leaders of our nation. If they can't negotiate with their fellow Americans how could they negotiate with the leaders of other nations?
+1 # janasuec 2012-10-12 17:27
I just checked my spam box (I'm on yahoo)and anything
that had words like Biden, Democrats, Clinton, Obama, etc......had been defaulted to spam. Has anyone else had this happen to them?
0 # Billy Bob 2012-10-12 18:15
Not as "spam". They've done worse to me. If any email is about banksters, or OWS, or by Robert Reich or Paul Krugman, or about repug campaign donators, it's automatically put IN MY TRASH folder.

The "trash" folder is automatically emptied for me if I don't check it. I thought only I could put something into "trash". Apparently not.

Naturally, yahoo says this is just a bug they're "trying to fix". Yeah right. The only thing they're trying to "fix" is whether or not I get information they don't want me to have. It's been going on off-and-on for about a year and a 1/2 now.

So yeah. I know exactly what you're talking about. The trouble is that I've been using yahoo for well over 10 years and would have some serious problems with telling everyone they could no longer contact me at that email.
+2 # Eldon J. Bloedorn 2012-10-12 18:29
Very dissapointed in CNN's polling, or rather lack of it. That dude with the gray bushy hair on his face who "gave" the polling results, what's his name? Bill Maher commented about this guy a few weeks ago:"he is not bothered by facts."
0 # Eldon J. Bloedorn 2012-10-13 01:00
Maybe: Biden for pres. Obama, well you know.
+2 # James Mulhern 2012-10-13 21:41
I wish Romney was in my classroom the day after his 47 percent comment was released. Most of the students in the inner-city school where I work "depend" on the government because of life circumstances that are particularly difficult.

Let Mr. Romney tell my students in person that they are "victims," who "believe they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it." Let him look them in the eye and say his job is "not to worry about" them. Let him admonish them by saying that he could "never convince them to take personal responsibility and care for their lives." Let him tell Jerome, whose mother is dying, and has to support his family, or Donna whose parents both died tragically a year apart, or Marisol who goes regularly for chemo treatments but still finds the time to do her homework, apologizing for her absences, or Jason who is living in a motel because his father is out of work.

Had Romney been in my class that day, he would have seen outrage and sadness in the faces of the children before him. But he would have heard, too, the eloquent defense of their dignity. He would have seen the pride on their faces when they spoke about their families. He would have witnessed the character, kindness, and innate goodness of that 47 percent of Americans who have the strength and the will to depend on themselves.

James Mulhern,

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