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Excerpt: "'... When you go and talk to any audience about climate, you hear them washing back at you the same crap over and over and over again,' he continued. 'There's no longer a shared reality on an issue like climate even though the very existence of our civilization is threatened.'"

'The very existence of our civilization is threatened. People have no idea!' said Al Gore. (photo: AP)
'The very existence of our civilization is threatened. People have no idea!' said Al Gore. (photo: AP)

Al Gore: 'Media Spin on Climate Is Bullshit'

By Troy Hooper, Real Aspen

10 August 11


l Gore is pissed.

The former vice president dropped in on an Aspen Institute media forum titled "Networks an Citizenship" on Thursday and railed against corporate evildoers who put profit above society.

Gore referenced the book "Merchants of Doubt: How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming" by Naomi Oreskes and Erik M. Conway, which tells of how petroleum, steel, utilities and other industries enlisted lobbyists to cloud the climate debate.

The vice president recalled how not long ago tobacco giants "succeeded in delaying the implementation of the surgeon general's report for 40 years - 40 years! In every one of those 40 years the average number of Americans killed by cigarettes each year exceeded the total number of Americans killed in all of World War II : 450,000 per year. My sister was one of them. ... It was evil, evil, evil."

That same model of media manipulation, Gore said, "was transported whole cloth into the climate debate. And some of the exact same people - I can go down a list of their names - are involved in this. And so what do they do? They pay pseudo scientists to pretend to be scientists to put out the message: 'This climate thing, it's nonsense. Man-made CO2 doesn't trap heat. It may be volcanoes.' Bullshit! 'It may be sun spots.' Bullshit! 'It's not getting warmer.' Bullshit!

"... When you go and talk to any audience about climate, you hear them washing back at you the same crap over and over and over again," he continued. "There's no longer a shared reality on an issue like climate even though the very existence of our civilization is threatened. People have no idea! It's no longer acceptable in mixed company, meaning bipartisan company, to use the goddamn word climate. They have polluted it to the point where we cannot possibly come to an agreement on it."

Gore lamented the diminished role that reason and fact-based analysis play in modern US politics.

During the debt-ceiling debate, American Crossroads, Americans for Prosperity and a collection of smaller groups followed tobacco's blueprint for bombarding the media with their own self-serving messages, he said.

"Unnoticed in Washington and New York as the debt-ceiling debate was going on, the ratio of television advertisements was nine to one on the 'Don't-lift-the-debt-ceiling debate. Spending is the problem.' And now we're going to tip the country back into recession. It's absolutely insane," Gore said. "Mark my words on this we became the greatest country on earth because we made better decisions than any other nation. And we made better decisions because we used shared consciousness-shared reality rule of reason best evidence democratic discourse free debate to figure out what's more likely than not to be the best decision here. It didn't always work but it worked a hell of a lot better. Since we adopted this new system we are making catastrophic decisions that have massive consequences. The Iraq invasion. What just happened with macro-economic policy. It really is extremely difficult." your social media marketing partner


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+119 # Barbara Nearing 2011-08-10 15:01
It is a disgrace that some do not believe in Global Warming! How can they deny it?

When floods are destroying homes, fields, factories, etc., something has to be the culprit - and we know what it is!

What will it take to awaken the citizenry? Please speak to our President!
+158 # PhilO 2011-08-10 15:16
I don't "believe" in human induced climate change. Nor, do I "believe" in evolution. Similarly, I don't "believe" in gravity, sunlight, or air!

These are all things that exist independently of my beliefs. That is to say, they exist... there's no need to "believe" in them.
+43 # Bert Bigelow 2011-08-10 19:22
That is a GREAT comment, portiz. I could not possibly say it better.
The idiots who use faith-based beliefs to deny these things are denying reality.
As you say, "THEY EXIST!!!!"
+43 # futhark 2011-08-10 21:55
YES! As long as one requires "belief" in a scientifically verifiable proposition or fact, you give the intransigent an "out", by insisting that the proposition is one to be accepted on faith, which, if it contradicts any portion of that person's belief system, can be disregarded.

I KNOW this is true, having taught high school biology for over 30 years. NEVER insist that students "believe" any scientific proposition. Sometime my students were shocked to learn that I did not "believe" in the atomic-molecula r theory of matter or the plate tectonic theory of geology, or as a biology teacher, Darwin's theory of evolution by means of natural selection. What I did require was that they would be able to describe these theories as a series of verifiable propositions and cite supporting evidence. What a relief not to have to argue nonsense with ignorant students and parents and get nowhere with it!
+33 # Patricia Chang 2011-08-11 00:09
Those who refuse to believe in extreme climate change, will suffer the consequences no matter their ignorance and arrogance. At some point, even the wealthy will suffer. You cant buy your way out of a global catastrophe.
+13 # billy bob 2011-08-11 19:05
Believe me, many of the rich are preparing for it as we speak, and even as they try to convince the rest of us that it isn't happening.
-2 # vitobonespur 2011-08-12 14:46
Quoting billy bob:
Believe me, many of the rich are preparing for it as we speak, and even as they try to convince the rest of us that it isn't happening.

Believe you?...billy bob, do you have facts to support this or is it just a cynical opinion?
+1 # billy bob 2011-08-12 21:26
It's personal experience.
0 # Cliff 2011-08-14 17:31
While I tend to believe you. Can you describe what you experienced? Names not necessary.
+78 # Regina 2011-08-10 16:53
Don't credit these cretins with sincere belief! They're only out for monetary gains -- their "faith" is in their bottom line, no matter how they manipulate Jesus to cover up their greed. Climate change is not a matter of "faith" or "belief" and certainly not an idea to vote up or down. It's an area for intense study, which is ongoing. Gore is right in "lamenting the diminished role that reason and fact-based analysis play in modern U. S. politics." The last thing we need is voodoo anti-science.
+13 # Patricia Chang 2011-08-11 00:07
Obama has the same problem as the Republicans. He tends to listen primarily to corporate interests, as he seeks big campaign donations. Look at his record on nuclear subsidies in Illinois. His environmental record is dismal. He throws a few crumbs here and there, but the big issues are decided by his corporatist leanings and flunkies, like Salazar. He hears only what is expedient for him to gain more donations.
0 # Cliff 2011-08-14 17:38
My opinion is that Obama is in a position where the Repuglicans have the numbers. In order to get anything done, he has to meet them halfway to hell. Let's face it. There are a lot of ignorant people out there that are middle of the road. When legislation is desperately needed, he is forced to do or die. He will be faulted by them no matter what he does, though. I think that he leads by example showing that he is willing to meet them halfway, even though we all know that halfway is not.
-11 # kcdudeabides 2011-08-11 05:10
are you for real...
+1 # jon 2011-08-12 19:25
Yes, Dude! Patricia is REAL!

Now, let me ask you, do you understand what Logic is, as opposed to emotion?
+17 # Arthur DeLuca 2011-08-11 06:22
It's sad but true that there are those who do NOT believe in global warming. There's a guy I used to watch on public access TV who believes those paid scientists. He announces that "Global Warming is a fake" (which it is NOT). He tells everyone that the Earth goes through natural warming and cooling cycles. Of course he does NOT state (probably does not even know it himself) that the Earth is in its cooling cycle period right now. Imagine how much hotter things would be if we were in its warming cycle!

What it's going to take for these people who believe the lies is for the liars to step forward and announce that they have been lying to us. The very same people whose faces appear on TV and say "there is no global warming" would have to appear on Tv and say "I lied to you - there IS global warming - I was paid to tell you lies" and then they'd have to show the pay stubs from the people who paid them to lie. How likely is that to happen? No, I'm afraid that some people are just never going to believe, no matter what happens. This is very sad but also, I think, very true.
+4 # SALLY E. NAVE 2011-08-13 21:17
Mr. Gore, There are VERY few citizens of
USA who have the Insight, LIFE experience and education in ALL world matters that you NOW have and OUR World AND USA are CRYING OUT IN OUR HEARTS for You to be Guided from within to RUN FOR 2012 PRESIDENT FOR OUR 'COMMON GOOD'.
Please !
With the SINCERE Love of Gratitude,
Sally E. Nave
Korean War Era Medic
Great Grandmother
+144 # PhilO 2011-08-10 15:02
No where is our failure as science educators more apparent than the widespread acceptance of the ideas denying climate change (the rejection of evolution by natural selection is a close second)!

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, but apparently most Americans don't consider becoming well informed before they vote part of their responsibility.

We are a people of blissfully unaware sheep being led to slaughter by the wealthy and selfish corporate interests.
+75 # tazzy 2011-08-10 16:51
It is quite scary as a science educator to hear the ignorance some of my students fire back at me. Of course, they heard it out of the mouths of their parents. As for evolution, I teach in Texas. Need I say more?
+32 # Bert Bigelow 2011-08-10 19:27
You have my sympathies, tazzy. You live in an environment that is dangerous for nonbelievers. Watch your back.
+25 # Deward Houck 2011-08-10 21:12
I teach physics and chemistry in a southern California charter high school. It isn't much better here. The Earth can't be more than 6000 years old - says so in the Bible. Religion is why science is now failing, and why we aren't going to make it. Let's hope the apes are more successful. Go cousins go.
+12 # Patch 2011-08-11 20:29
Nothing has caused more harm in this world than religion. It appeals to so many because they don't have to think, they can be told what to do and what to believe. The lazy person's way of life. It is the ultimate mind-bending drug.
-7 # Kiwikid 2011-08-12 22:10
Wonderful! Another opportunity for the 'informed' to yet again parade their fundamentalist anti-religious bigotry.
+1 # Francisco 2011-08-14 11:18
When a young mind learns to believe in something without physical proof it has made a qualitative change in the way our brain evolved as a way of survival.
We used to learn by observing, remembering and applying the obtained knowledge with the result of the survival of the best informed about the reality of the environment in which it lived.
That is why religion is intrinsically dangerous.
+33 # Bert Bigelow 2011-08-10 19:26
Once again, you are dead right, portiz.
The media are owned by corporate interests who are intent on keeping us "blissfully unaware."
Until we awaken and vote their flacks out of office, we will continue to get the government we deserve.
+1 # Cliff 2011-08-14 17:45
I know a great guy who runs a small paper. He has to stay neutral or lose readership. Most media runs mostly on profit (exception NPR) so they must report the most exciting angle of news. Facts get in the way.
+90 # happycamper690 2011-08-10 15:07
The only possible explanation for those in total denial of climate change must be that these are the folks who believe that rapture will take them away sometime before the planet's expiration date arrives. In the meantime, rack up as many BMW's and vacation homes as you can and have fun!
+20 # jon 2011-08-10 19:01
"these are the folks who believe that rapture will take them away sometime before the planet's expiration"

Can anybody - please - tell me where, in the Bible, that "rapture" is stated?
+25 # Bert Bigelow 2011-08-10 19:29
Yeah, the main message for them is:
"Who cares if the planet is trashed. I'm outta here when Jesus returns...which is any day now."
I think we need to take a slightly longer-term view.
It just might be that Jesus ain't gonna show up for awhile, so we better take care of this place.
+11 # jon 2011-08-10 20:46
This is a serious question.

Can anybody explain how the word "rapture" became part of the fundamentalist Christian lexicon ??

I doubt that the word exists in the Bible and I suspect that some republican - since all fundamentalists seem to be republican - made the whole thing up.
0 # Cliff 2011-08-14 18:09
jon, on one hand, I think that you are on to something. On the other, I don't really care if it was or wasn't in the Bible.
0 # Cliff 2011-08-14 18:11
It is simple. God created global warming. It is all part of his plan.

and this is not a serious answer.
+19 # TrueAmericanPatriot 2011-08-10 22:00
Quoting Bert Bigelow:
Yeah, the main message for them is:
"Who cares if the planet is trashed. I'm outta here when Jesus returns...which is any day now."
I think we need to take a slightly longer-term view.
It just might be that Jesus ain't gonna show up for awhile, so we better take care of this place.

Anyone who has thoroughly studied the Bible KNOWS that God commanded man to TAKE CARE OF the Earth, NOT TRASH IT! Read Genesis Chapters 1 & 2, and you will see that. For those who DO NOT believe that climate change is real, has ANYONE noticed that nearly 75% of the South American Rain Forests' trees have been harvested?
+9 # Ronald Crowe 2011-08-11 08:38
Be Fruitful And Multiply
And God said unto them: Be fruitful and multiply,
and replenish the earth, and subdue it. Genesis 1:28
Oh, Lord, from the first time you spoke
we have happily obeyed, have done exactly
as you asked--willingl y, gratefully, urgently--
increasing for all our worth, oh, Lord, like fleas
in a carpet, like rats in a corn bin, and still we carry
on--joyously, thoughtlessly, endlessly--fann ing and quenching
the flames: copulating, connecting, conjuncting, consorting,
doing what it takes to ever more rapidly multiply him made
in your image, oh Lord, following your edict at every
opportunity, filling the earth and doing our utmost to thwart
those godless who would hinder the process. And,
trust me, oh, Lord, we will not rest until our world is utterly
subdued, teeming chock-a-block and cheek-to-jowl with sacred
human life, oh, Lord, and what could be better than that?
+22 # futhark 2011-08-10 22:01
This falls under the category of "Jesus will save our butts" theory of the universe.

To my non-theological mind, this constitutes an extreme blasphemy against the Creator and a lack of respect for His creation.
+31 # mort sachs 2011-08-10 15:11
sad but it is easy to solve....the wars are a cancer putting poison in daily and cutting taxes is cancelling medecine...1] end the wars tonite 2] recruit 1 million for the national guard rebuilding and train them for disasters, and getting a ged. after 2 years recruit for military . drops unemploymen under 8 and reduces crime as well
-108 # MidwestTom 2011-08-10 15:17
Rather than simply state opinions please review the following: New Paper
“On the Misdiagnosis Of Surface Temperature Feedbacks From Variations In Earth’s Radiant Energy Balance”
By Spencer and Braswell 2011

There is a new paper published which raises further questions on the robustness of multi-decadal global climate predictions. It is

Spencer, R.W.; Braswell, W.D. On the Misdiagnosis of Surface Temperature Feedbacks from Variations in Earth’s Radiant Energy Balance. Remote Sens. 2011, 3, 1603-1613.

Climate models get energy balance wrong, make too hot forecasts of global warming

HUNTSVILLE, Ala. (July 26, 2011) — Data from NASA’s Terra satellite shows that when the climate warms, Earth’s atmosphere is apparently more efficient at releasing energy to space than models used to forecast climate change have been programmed to “believe.”
+57 # Sufisue 2011-08-10 15:59
And who exactly are Spencer and Braswell and who paid for their study? Tell me that information first and then I will consider the actual thesis and data. So far when those questions are answered about anti-climate change "scientists" it becomes clear they are corporate (often OIL) hacks.
+71 # fishskicanoe 2011-08-10 16:05

In short they (Spencer and Braswell) developed a model that gave the results they wanted. Spencer is on record as being a fervent anti-environmen talist and laissez-faire apologists. He is the very epitome of the bullshit artists Gore is describing.
+61 # HHHorny 2011-08-10 16:12
So the misdiagnosed surface temperatures are melting glaciers, tundras, the polar ice shelfs, Greenland, raising CO2 levels in the oceans, killing reefs, etc. That's amazing.
+39 # cadan 2011-08-10 16:12
Well, MidwestTom, what do you think about the ExxonSecrets page regarding Roy Spencer?

This is not meant to be a leading question!

But there apparently are questions about Spencer.
+56 # Timaloha 2011-08-10 16:38
Over the last ten years or so, Spencer has jumped back and forth between "It's the Sun," "It's El Nino," and "It's Natural Variability" as an explanation for rising temperatures, but every one of those has been exhaustingly shown to be based on false premises. As for his new paper, real climate scientists have remarked. [the paper]..."is a pretty good example of academic fraud. The authors clearly understand enough climate science to know that what they are suggesting is impossible, absurd, and simply wrong." ~ Laden. Others have questioned the peer review process at Remote Sensing, the journal that published the article. Spencer and Braswell are industry-paid hacks.
+18 # ericlipps 2011-08-10 16:41
Quoting MidwestTom:
Rather than simply state opinions please review the following: New Paper
“On the Misdiagnosis Of Surface Temperature Feedbacks From Variations In Earth’s Radiant Energy Balance”
By Spencer and Braswell 2011

There is a new paper published which raises further questions on the robustness of multi-decadal global climate predictions. It is

Spencer, R.W.; Braswell, W.D. On the Misdiagnosis of Surface Temperature Feedbacks from Variations in Earth’s Radiant Energy Balance. Remote Sens. 2011, 3, 1603-1613.

Climate models get energy balance wrong, make too hot forecasts of global warming

HUNTSVILLE, Ala. (July 26, 2011) — Data from NASA’s Terra satellite shows that when the climate warms, Earth’s atmosphere is apparently more efficient at releasing energy to space than models used to forecast climate change have been programmed to “believe.”

Enough more that global warming isn't a problem? Not according top anything I've seen. This strikes me as a cross-your-fing ers-and-hope argument.
+44 # tclose 2011-08-10 16:47
MidwestTom - again, you have been hoodwinked by the Climate Change deniers. Go to a reputable source for your climate info, not this bunch. You are only passing on unscientific info disguised as science.
+58 # Ken Spitze 2011-08-10 16:52
If you would spend one minute researching this paper, you would learn that: 1) it is published in an inconsequential journal - not one of the 8300 top scientific journals included in the Web of Science, the principal entity used to monitor scientific literature; 2) within 3 days of publication, other scientists had reanalyzed the same data and came to the opposite conclusion.
+36 # AlexBrownUML 2011-08-10 17:00

If you're hoping that Spencer and Braswell claim here that global climate predictions are false, you're out of luck! They and many
others working with software models of global climate are struggling with many different phenomena (especially water vapor and clouds)
which aren't perfectly described in the model equations. The net effect of these imperfections is uncertainty in the effective
imbalance in the model, between solar energy arriving at the top of the atmosphere, and heat energy radiated upward at the top of the
atmosphere -- the "radiative balance". In their words, "In simple terms, radiative changes resulting from temperature change (feedback) cannot be easily disentangled from those causing a temperature change (forcing)."

They are NOT suggesting that the OBSERVED temperature change of the planet is incorrect; these authors have reported since 1997 that
satellite observation of atmospheric and surface temperature are correct -- and these observations show that "the Earth’s surface is
currently warming at a rate of about 0.29ºF/decade or 2.9°F/century."
+35 # AlexBrownUML 2011-08-10 17:01
The models are not complete or perfect, but the methods used to work with them show unequivocally that climate change is real and is associated with human consumption of fossil fuels.

There are many, many sources of clear information for the layman on these topics -- and readers shouldn't have to start with your arrival waving "a new science paper" which isn't typically available to the layman. This is very typical of the participation of contrarian hacks who pop up in these
discussions, doing the work of the lobbyists working for petroleum, steel, and utility industries, just as Gore is describing here.
+29 # pbbrodie 2011-08-10 17:12
You call the findings of the other 98% of climate scientists, whose data shows and is interpreted the opposite of this, opinions!?
Also, what you stated here is absurd. I don't know of anyone, other than what you reference, who denies the climate has actually warmed. They have only challenged the causes.
+50 # ABen 2011-08-10 17:18
Tom, actually I did review the paper as well as some critiques of it by other respected climate scientists. While I am not a climatologist, I do understand the scientific method. My assessment of what I read in Spencer and Braswell's paper left me wondering where it got published and how it got published. It was published in a magazine titled "Remote Sensing" and was not peer reviewed, which means the magazine's publishing policy is highly suspect and the authors didn't have the guts to put it out for peer review. The use of non-subject specific data sets and the selective use of parts of data sets lead me to remark to a fellow educator that this paper looked like shoddy work from a first-year grad student. My assessment was reinforced by the critiques of scientists who are widely respected in this area. In short, this paper is little more than "junk science" fit only for those who desire a scientific-look ing paper that seeks to undermine the decades of good science that has been done on this subject. This paper by S&B is not science, but it is a good example of pseudo-scientif ic junk. There are legitimate questions to address about the nature, causes, and speed of global warming, but this piece of crap neither raises nor addresses any of them. It is just crap!
+40 # secularsurfer 2011-08-10 17:50
Not sure about Braswell but this Spencer character is a proponent of intelligent design aka creationism. Not very credible in my book. I'll stick to the real scientists' research.
+9 # Deward Houck 2011-08-10 21:26
Like I said earlier, it is religion which is going to kill us all. Global warming is so real, so imminent, and so serious, I think we could use the necessity defense if we just sent these jokers on to the world they want to be a part of. NOTW in deed.
-8 # Martintfre 2011-08-11 09:42
Yea - the religion of Mann made climate change.
+2 # billy bob 2011-08-11 19:10
First of all, who's "Mann"? Thomas Mann? I don't think he had anything to do with this.

Second of all, science is not a religion. Some people have a religious zeal for FACTS. Some people have a religious zeal for avoiding them. Which side of the fence are you loyal to?
+22 # jon 2011-08-10 18:21
Tell that to all of the polar bears that have drowned swimming for an ice field that was there for countless bear generations, but has now melted.
+21 # Regina 2011-08-10 18:32
Are those papers published in refereed journals, or in ego-tripping pseudo-journals ? Or corporate emanations? Some corporate journals are acceptably independent (the old Bell System Technical Journal comes to this old science prof's memory) but the sponsorship of Remote Sens., now up to only vol. 3, remains to be probed. Just because an opposing position appears in print doesn't make it acceptable. Think of all the "research" published to "prove" the 6000 year old earth and other anti-evolutiona ry fables.
+18 # Bert Bigelow 2011-08-10 19:31
Roy Spencer is a known climate skeptic who gets big bucks from oil companies.
+18 # Jorge 2011-08-10 23:40
Exxon (the sign of the double cross) has spent millions on phony "think" tanks and propaganda to continue with oil-based energy with all its ugly consequences (pollution, climate change, cancers, asthma, oil wars, etc.). Quit giving tax breaks to Big Oil and support clean energy (solar, wind, tidal, geothermal). Al, we need you. Challenge Obama for the 2012 Dem nomination, BO is a corporatist, not an environmentalis t. End the wars, invest in U.S. jobs (green jobs).
-11 # Martintfre 2011-08-11 09:36
Wow Midwest .. I assume that the NASA launched that satellite for Koch owned Oil companies to prove that the predictions from the now decade old IPCC reports are a fail.

Why is the Greenhouse label a fail? simple test. Park two identical cars in a hot sunny parking lot - roll all the windows down on one - why is it cooler then the other? ..hint:: same reason the green house models fail.
+7 # noitall 2011-08-11 13:59
""Intelligent design explains similarities based upon common design. An Audi and a Ford each have four wheels, a transmission, an engine, a gas tank, fuel injection systems ... but no one would claim that they both naturally evolved from a common ancestor."
Source: "Faith Based Evolution" by Roy Spencer"

with logic like that, who can argue with Roy Spencer and keep his head from exploding?
0 # Cliff 2011-08-14 18:25
Spencer believes in "intelligent design" over evolution. Which if I were to choose to follow this logic, my first question would be where did the intelligence come from. Or more to the point, where did it go to?
+69 # Richard Fischer 2011-08-10 15:23
It's wonderful to hear someone speak clearly with raw words expressing emotion and extolling reason as opposed to Professor Obama lecturing on matters in his halfhearted way. Gore for President!
0 # Cliff 2011-08-14 18:48
Obama has to speak down to the public. Who are becoming less and less educated. We teach kids that they must come up with certain answers. Not think for themselves. Then we allow religious schools, which I think is an oxymoron.
+71 # Christy B 2011-08-10 15:24
I wish that Al Gore had run for president again, although he would have run into the same muck that Obama has--people who have no interest whatsoever in the well being of their country, and the planet. I appreciate his fury at the disgusting, indefensible deniers of reality that come from the ranks of big money, big business, big delusion. It's astonishing, and sickening. We, simply, have to do something. Something. Anything.
+5 # bluesgirl 2011-08-10 21:19
I wish he'd run in 2012, Christy! I'd love to see another Gore-Clinton ticket! PLEASE, Al and Hillary!
+80 # jt 2011-08-10 15:43
How can we convince a group of established Democratic leaders (e.g., Al Gore, Robert Reich) to go see Obama and tell him he either needs to begin advocating for implementation of the principles of the Democratic Party or withdraw from the 2012 presidential race so we can find a candidate who will?
+32 # Judy Byrd 2011-08-10 16:08
AMEN!!!! Let's have some dems who actually ACT like Dems, PLEASE! Quoting jt:
How can we convince a group of established Democratic leaders (e.g., Al Gore, Robert Reich) to go see Obama and tell him he either needs to begin advocating for implementation of the principles of the Democratic Party or withdraw from the 2012 presidential race so we can find a candidate who will?
+7 # futhark 2011-08-10 22:04
If that happened, it would be a miracle and might even be enough to motivate me to rejoin the Democratic Party.

But it's not going to happen because the Democrats are just another wing of the Plutocratic Party that really calls all the shots.
+7 # Jorge 2011-08-10 23:48
Yes, jt. Obama needs to get out of the way for a real Progressive. Al Gore, Krugman, Robert Reich, Robert Kennedy Jr., Al Grayson, Bernie Sanders, Howard Dean. Let's start contacting these guys to run against Obama, the more challengers for the Dem Presidential Primary the better, then BO should bow out like LBJ did.
-15 # kcdudeabides 2011-08-11 05:09
just goes to show... there are as many nuts on the left as there are on the right... extremism on either side will not solve our issues... i agree Obama is as inept as a michelle bachman would be ... but to replace with these people you mentioned would be Jimmy Carter all over again... why not Bill Mahr :)
+5 # Jorge 2011-08-11 08:04
Ok KC Dude. Nuts? Extremism? I see from your other comments you are probably a right-wing hack (from the state of Misery). Do you get your Orwellian talking points from Rush, Fox "News", Sean, etc? Or you may simply work for Big Oil or get paid for your posts by the Koch Brothers (is that where the "abides" part comes in?).
0 # Cliff 2011-08-14 18:56
Yeah, I love Bill Mahr, too!!

But come on folks.

Are you serious? Please. As inept as Michelle Bachman? Give me a break.
+1 # Cliff 2011-08-14 18:54
It is this kind of thinking that will cause us to lose the presidency. BIG MISTAKE.
+3 # Patch 2011-08-11 20:40
Write letters, lots and lots of letters from millions of people. Now, when I receive something from the Democratic Party asking for a donation I don't throw it away. I send it back with my caustic comments and demand Obama step down so a real Democratic can run. I tell them I won't donate a dime to the Party or any candidate unless s/he is a progressive. If enough of us do this, it will have an impact.
+1 # Cliff 2011-08-14 18:53
Austin has a liberal press. The way I see it, it is all about the numbers. Come on folks, Obama doesn't write the legislation. The House and Senate do. With 'help' from lobbyists. As long as the House, Senate, or Presidency is run by Republicans, we are screwed. Right now the House is controlled by the Republicans. That is what needs to change.
+32 # jeanrodenbough 2011-08-10 15:45
Go ahead, Al: just say what you mean. Don't hold back! 8>)))
+61 # angelfish 2011-08-10 15:47
Corporatism has DESTROYED our Country! When Big Business sticks it's nasty nose and fingers into everyone else's Pie the Disease spreads, Spinmeisters take over and TRUTH goes by the wayside! They WILL NOT be confused by FACTS! In fact, they HIRE people to distort them in their favor! It's inane and INSANE! They have forgotten that the TRUTH shall set them FREE! THIS is why they usurped the Tea Party! By absorbing all the angry, disaffected, "Don't confuse me with the facts" poor slobs, they were able to STEAL the Mid-Term Elections with smears on President Obama, innuendo and outright LIES, just as their god and Mentor before them, GWB, did throughout his tenure in Office! Wake UP, Americans! We can return out Government to TRUTH and SANITY but it will take hard work and commitment by ALL of us! If we don't work for the change we so desperately NEED and WANT, it will NEVER happen!
-77 # Kcdudeabides 2011-08-10 17:41
wow ... is this bill mahr... what total nonsense... its government that has fermented most of the problems we have faced... how has Obama been smeared.... ???? People fed up with bloated government voting for people committed to change is stealing an election... By the way when was this mythical period of truth and sanity in government you speak of... You seem to be a very hateful angry person... the government that governs least governs best... Jefferson... the government big enough to give you everything you want... is big enough to take it away... Adams... government in not the answer to our problems... government is the problem... Reagan... Don't let the truth and facts get in the way of your hate speak gibberish .... The tea party is not a bunch of race baiting gun toting yewhoos.... if i used those kind of assumptions about you and your kind you would cry foul ... yet you do it with a impunity... what is wrong with you.... why are you such an angry hateful person toward people who have a different opinion than yours.... why do you hate business people so much... they provide jobs ... why is profit such an evil concept to you... you should move to greece or france and see how well that thinking has worked for them... Atlas has Shrugged...
+33 # suzyskier 2011-08-10 18:32
From the mouth of a right winger, can't take you seriously. Sorry you can't see what is happening to our country because you are blinded by the right.
+41 # angelfish 2011-08-10 19:26
The Fascists want to Dismantle our Government, abandon the FAA, EPA, NEA, FDA, and on and on. WHO'S going to taste your food for toxins, and test you medications for safety and effectiveness? Who's going to make sure the Planes are mechanically fit to fly and regulate the air traffic? Who's going to make sure Johnny can READ let alone succeed as a Professional or Tradesman? You ASSUME that I'm an "angry and hateful person". You're RIGHT about ONE (1) thing. I'm angry! In fact, I'm mad as Hell that Cretins and Hard RIGHT-WING Ideologues have over-taken the once LOVED and respected Party of Lincoln and turned it into a WEAPON! It should be called the K.N.F.P. (Koch/Norquist Fascist Party! They ALL took Oaths to REFUSE to tax the Rich! What's up with that? Are they NOT citizens? WHY can't they pay their FAIR share of the Tax burden? They are destroying our system of Government which has succeeded for Two Hundred and Thirty Five (235) years, by Working TOGETHER and Compromising on how to keep our Country Solvent and Productive. These EGREGIOUS Bast**ds want nothing less than TOTAL annihilation of our Government and will stop at nothing to fulfill their EVIL ends! You are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine, but it's NOT true that the ones who die with the most toys win. AMERICA loses as these Greedy THUGS BUY our Government out from under us. NOT while I'm alive!
+22 # angelfish 2011-08-10 19:28
...and one more thing. You say "Atlas has Shrugged? Jesus WEPT!
+8 # TrueAmericanPatriot 2011-08-11 06:15
Quoting angelfish:
...and one more thing. You say "Atlas has Shrugged? Jesus WEPT!

EVERYTHING in your statement is a BULLSEYE, Angelfish! An EXCELLENT assessment, on BOTH POSTS! LET'S ALL GET OUT THE VOTE IN 2012!
+25 # jon 2011-08-10 21:26
"why do you hate business people so much... they provide jobs .."

Hilarious! They have been shipping jobs overseas as fast as they can since Reagan gave them the right to write off the expenses to do so - a tax break!

There are several types of republicans. The mean-spirited seem to be most abundant, but you, sir, seem to fall into the category - to your credit - of being merely naive.

(Oh, yeah, I left out another large subset, the "Rah-Rah" guys)
+18 # Deward Houck 2011-08-10 21:33
That government governs best that governs least had a ring of truth in 1776. There are over 6 billion of us on the planet now, kiss small government goodbye; the price you must pay for unretrained growth. We need big global government, and we need it fast, and responsive (to us, not corporations).
+11 # Patch 2011-08-11 20:46
What we need Deward is serious birth control. Overpopulation is the biggest problem in the world. Cut the population and most problems will be solved--especia lly is religious fundamentalists and rich, greedy bast#$ds go first.
+1 # Cliff 2011-08-14 19:03
Patch I agree. And the problem is that it is pretty easy to get behind 'go forth and multiply'. Look at China or Somalia.
+22 # molesoul 2011-08-10 21:53
"Truth and facts?" Please. I see only quotes from 2 founding fathers and the G.O.D. of the G.O.P used to rationalize your own (and the Tea Party's) anger and hatred of government. Here are some actual facts for you: 1. corporate money in politics (campaign finance, lobbying, advertising, etc.), has enabled BIG Business to acquire so much power and so much wealth that they have captured majority shares in all three branches of government. 2. The financial sector and large corporations are seeing record profits again (for the second year in a deep recession) and they are NOT creating jobs in this country - their tax breaks and other government subsidies are going to CEO compensation, to shareholders, and to investment (ergo job creation) overseas. Lower corp. tax rates will have no impact on jobs here because there is no consumer demand. (cont.)
+1 # Cliff 2011-08-14 19:05
So true. When the stock market was going down, were people taking the money out and hiring people? No, they put it in gold. Can someone explain to me how that helped the job market?
+19 # molesoul 2011-08-10 21:54
(cont.) 3. Consumers are not buying anything because a) many are unemployed or underemployed due to the recession; b) many have lost their homes, savings and retirement funds; and c) wages have remained stagnant over the past 20 or 30 years. 4. Income inequality in the U.S. has never been so great; the top 1% of the country owns as much wealth as the bottom 50%. Actually, it’s more like 400 families who own as much in assets as half the country. 5. The sole aim of corporations is to make profits, and in particular, higher profits than they did in the previous fiscal quarter. Fine. But they have been doing this – in large part – by forever reducing costs through smaller work forces (i.e., job destruction), reducing benefits, ignoring safety and environmental regulations, and by increasing spending on advertising and lobbying. (cont.)
+1 # Cliff 2011-08-14 19:06
Yes, when they have money they use it to buy machinery to replace men, and to trainer foreigners to take our jobs.
+25 # molesoul 2011-08-10 22:00
(cont.) So KCdud, I will grant you now that government IS the problem because we have a government of the corporations, by the corporations, and for the corporations. It’s not “business” that liberals have a problem with; it’s BIG business — giant corporations — that we are fed up with because their disproportionat e economic, legal, political, and informational power DISempowers us citizens, decreases competition, and prevents rational policymaking, for example, on climate change. And we don't have a problem with profits per se; it's how they are made and how they are distributed.
+1 # Cliff 2011-08-14 19:10
I don't have so much a problem with government as with the politicians. On the state level, in the great state of Perry. Senators and Reps only get $3500 a year in their salary. The rest is from... ???
No stinking wonder they are corrupt.
+43 # Night Raider 2011-08-10 16:02
The country is sunk. I have witnessed the intense lying and dirty dealing on the part of Republicans and the far right wing for a couple of decades and it's getting worse. I think of the stolen election in 2000 when scenes were video-taped by broadcast TV of purported angry citizens trying to break down the doors to the election judges offices where the recount was in progress. No one knew it at the time, but that angry mob was an assault team from the Bush camp intent on destroying the ballots. They were all ID'd later. Absolutely members of the Republican establishment. I lost faith after that. Everything is always a lie. Where do we go from here?
+7 # Deward Houck 2011-08-10 21:38
Stealing an election sounds like subverting the Constitution to me. That's treason if I'm not mistaken. Let's see, treason during war time - and the punishment is . . . ?
+40 # Sufisue 2011-08-10 16:03
Glad to see Al Gore speaking up. Maybe he can motive the lazy liberals to get activated. Or will it take riots like in London before people start to wake up? When people see corporations and billionaires evade taxes, buy elections and break laws, can general mayhem be far behind?
+36 # allie 2011-08-10 16:10
Americans have been brainwashed and hogtied by the Republican party and their core of conservatives who have been bought by big powerful corporations to dismiss this problem. When you have the right wing cable news commentators repeatedly poo pooing climate control ad nauseam, people begin to parrot that crap. The rich, righteous and almighty Right do not seem to understand that they will burn like the rest of us peons.
+7 # Deward Houck 2011-08-10 21:41
True, true, true, they are in the same boat as the rest of us; and folks, nature bats last. Alas, the people known as corporations never die, although without robots to keep things going, how will they function without us? Do they care they will cease too?
+22 # tcatt57 2011-08-10 16:35
The reality is that the possible consequences must be taken seriously. All you do is chart out costs to counter Co2 emissions versus the costs with outcomes if climate change is upon us. When you put the facts on a chart to make things real for those so easly persuaded. The costs and damage for doing nothing is both staggering and has a point of no return.
+19 # jon 2011-08-10 19:12
One thing is certain, when it comes time - and it will - to pay for whatever is required to save this planet, the people who have profited off of this systematic stalling, Koch brothers, etc., will not pay. The cost will fall on the common people, both those who are yelling about it here, and all of the dupes who parrot the lies they have been told so frequently that they accept them as truth.
+23 # Lulie 2011-08-10 16:38
So what's gonna get us first: economic devastation or destruction of the planet? Or the violence that will inevitably be caused by both?
+9 # minkdumink 2011-08-10 16:47
all civilizations have fallen.Its just our turn.
+9 # Deward Houck 2011-08-10 21:43
It isn't just our civilization this time . . . its the entire planet.
+1 # minkdumink 2011-08-13 20:35
true, but WE are the meteor thats causing it.
-65 # brycenuc 2011-08-10 16:50
I am a liberal democrat who hates what the Republican leaders are doing to our country. But in the "knowledge" that CO2 has any noticeable effect on the climate, it is the liberals who are in error. The anti-AGW people don't call their opponents on the issue nasty names, and they refute the arguments of the AGW people point by point. AGW people never use a technical argument and they are experts in ad hominem attacks. The East Anglia hacked emails cannot be read by any senisible person without recognizing the total scam these AGW leaders were openly discussing. Consider also the horrible consequences the AGW crew predicted would be happening by now that aren't happening. Gore is the one who is vastly guilty of the false science for the sake of his own planned enrichment (with the "Cap and Trade" fiasco) that he accuses his opponents of. I nominate Gore not for the peace price but for the title of the biggest hypocrite in history.
-24 # kcdudeabides 2011-08-11 05:04
amen.... al has made 100 million promoting this non science...he is like donald trump of climate change... a self promoting genius
+3 # Sully747 2011-08-10 16:57
Those who will not confess that global warming is man made should be burned at the stake…
+10 # Deward Houck 2011-08-10 21:46
Are you crazy? That would add more CO2 to the atmosphere. We should just bury them in a sort of carbon capture and sequestration.
+30 # Don Richardson 2011-08-10 16:58
Environmental imperatives are about to make our infantile politics irrelevant. Congress is essentially dysfunctional re the basic sciences, being composed largely of self-seeking business/law types. We are asking used car salesmen/women to do brain surgery. The blame is ours. We were watching Jerry Springer during the election campaigns, just happy there were families out there even more messed up than ours. Say goodbye to the American Empire and most life on earth.
+17 # futhark 2011-08-10 22:09
Political candidates ought to be subjected to the same kind of "high stakes testing" that they have mandated our students to take. We deserve to know how much geography, science, economics, political theory, history, and mathematics they know before deciding whether or not they are qualified. Make the testing public and let them defend their wrong answers. I'm tired of ignoramuses deciding the fate of the nation. It's way past time to call out the clowns.
+1 # Cliff 2011-08-14 19:19
Yes, just the fact that Michelle Bachman feels like she is qualified, tells you that the qualifications are too lax.

Wait until people see Rick Perry's 2.0 GPA in his college transcript.

Don't we want our prez to be smarter than most of us?
-38 # rsb1 2011-08-10 17:20
Climate change is a cyclic and naturally occurring phenomenon resulting from on-planet and off-planet activity. The impact of human-kind on the environment including the ozone layer is indisputable. Taking one side of a multifaceted problem above all others is IGNORANT. Devising a commodities trading scheme based on the purported human impact on climate by taxing everyone and to enrich an elite few (i.e. the commoditizing of CAP AND TRADE) is A SCAM. If you really want to use your position for the benefit of mankind, Mr. Gore, you should be DEMANDING the RELEASE and SWIFT DEVELOPMENT of ALREADY PROVEN AND PATENTED ALTERNATIVE ENERGY METHODOLOGIES which are held and restricted from use/implementat ion by the same 'Elites' who would profit from your CAP AND TRADE COMMODITY SCHEME. You are transparent, Sir, and your greed is 'showing'.
-18 # kcdudeabides 2011-08-11 05:02
AMEN... al has made in excess of 100 million dollars promoting this smoke and mirrors...
+34 # fredboy 2011-08-10 17:23
Al, we face the same bullshit denial of science here in Florida when we try to limit fertilizer runoff into our waters and resulting harmful algal blooms and their VERY harmful bacteria. I have heard testimony that heavy rainfall doesn't run downhill. And if it does the grass here is so powerful it slurps every particle of fertilizer immediately, thus fertilizer runoff during Florida's heavy downpours is impossible. The GOP/teabaggers deny Newton's law of gravity and basic hydrology--and the politicos buy it.
The backlash is swift, however. The entire process is anti-business, thus revealing a GOP/teabagger truth: these bastards are either anti-business or know nothing about business!!! They don't realize that tourists and conventioneers and retirees do not want to live near lakes and beachfronts teeming with harmful algae and nasty, possibly deadly bacteria.
Let's keep pitching the truth. As Churchill said, "The truth is incontrovertibl e. Panic may resent it, ignorance may deny it, malice may distort it, but there it is."
Another powerful lesson to be learned about truth is no matter how much you deny it, it may just rise up and bite you on the ass.
-71 # Kcdudeabides 2011-08-10 17:23
The Junk science is the big BS ... all and his 5 SUVs and his 8 million dollar bachelor pad in California built with his BS in the balance nonsense that has been nearly totally discredited... Its about as real as him inventing the internet and Love Story is about he and Tipper... Its like when Obama says erroneous nonsense like Everyone Agrees ... or nobody disputes ... as if it is true.... enough of these disingenuous liars please ... why are we still listening to this TOTAL BULLSHIT from him....
+35 # suzyskier 2011-08-10 18:38
Al Gore never said he invented the internet, he may have been involved with supporting it but not developing it. WHy do you still bring up this ancient bull?
-2 # for parity 2011-08-12 11:03
You are correct. Al Gore said that he "created the internet.." A more divine method of inventing.

Gore: "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the internet."

People say all sorts of things that are taken out of context , or excerpted - and they get misused. Most often, one can rest assured that the person in question, would love to explain that there was much larger view being expressed - or that, "oh, gosh - well, that wasn't exactly what I meant - and you folks know that damn good and well."

Partisans on both sides of the isle are just as guilty as the other side is.

Another good example would be how so many have jumped on a couple of statements lifted from Bush (from a lengthy discussion) regarding looking for Bin Laden, running with the absolute hysterical view that Bush wasn't really interested in finding him (or killing him) any longer - to actually suggesting the the reorganizing at the CIA of the Bin Laden unit into a much broader unit meant the same lack of interest; i.e, "Bush disbanded the Bin Laden Unit." Yes - they did. They made it bigger and better, and apparently it worked.

People bring up the bull - because people bring up the bull. Whether at a conservative site - or this liberal site - "bull" is the lead. Bull for - Bull against.
+40 # jon 2011-08-10 18:44
Gore never said that he invented the internet. That is another Republican lie. The true story is that when he learned of the military net that tied labs and defense contractors together so that their otherwise individual computers could "talk" to each other, he realized that this general idea would be very good for civilian applications, too. He then set about championing that cause - and here we are enjoying the fruits of that vision.
+17 # Deward Houck 2011-08-10 21:52
Sir, even if you are correct and Al isn't perfect, and even hypocritical at times (I'm saying "if" to make a point), you sir are still going to die due to the global warming, which is real and not hypocritical. Nature takes no prisoners, and it bats last. (I read that last part somewhere, LOL)
+25 # NanFan 2011-08-10 22:06
Quoting Kcdudeabides:
The Junk science is the big BS ... why are we still listening to this TOTAL BULLSHIT from him....

Fact: The tobacco industry lied for years.

Fact: 450,000 people DO die each year in the US from smoking related illnesses, whether or not THEY do the smoking.

Fact: Tobacco industry did hire scientists to hide the truth about the detriments to the environment and the health of people related to smoking US-blended tobacco products.

Fact: Exxon and other corporations hire the SAME scientists to deny those corporations culpability with regard to climate change.

Fact: ALL has been in the name of profit and money and at the expense of human and planetary lives.

Fact: Land on which tobacco is grown cannot be used for any other food growing purpose for more than 100 years.

Fact: Bullshit is the mildest term to attribute to such atrocities.

Thank you Al Gore for your tireless work!

-24 # kcdudeabides 2011-08-11 05:01
Thanks AL... you went from 2 million net worth in 2000 to 100 million in 2010 promoting junk science... i love america... 5 suvs and an 8 million dollar house... gotta love it... he is like the guy who promoted the PET ROCK....
+4 # ryguy913 2011-08-12 19:16
kcdudeabides, i'd like to understand your assertion about al gore's income better. Would you be willing to provide a source for the statistics you're sharing? Thanks.
+29 # JayMagoo 2011-08-10 17:35
Why not go down that list of names? Why not name the liars and the public relations firms that the liars work for. They do not hesitate to broadcast lies about you, Al, they easily disparage your name and insult your intelligence, why not let us know, again and again, who the liars are. They've got it coming. Maybe a little bit of their own medicine will do some good. Any PR spokesman associated with the likes of Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity in my book, his name is mud.
+24 # Steffany & Jeffrey B 2011-08-10 17:46
Thank you Mr. Gore! Finally some passion and truth!! Can only x-politicians speak truth and show passion and commitment?
This is what the people want from their President not passivity and cooperation with evil. Mr. Gore if you had spoken out this clearly and passionately you would have been president - the votes would have been so uneven that couldn't have "selected" Mr. Bush.
+29 # fredboy 2011-08-10 17:46
One other GOP/teafarters approach to opposing scientific reasoning is to claim "the science is incomplete." I have heard this repeatedly.
Each time I remind them that science is a process of ongoing discovery and learning, and thus is never "complete."
With are dealing with two types: Intentional liars and intentional idiots.
+7 # Deward Houck 2011-08-10 21:55
And those of faith, who need no completion in their "reasoning" to reach "truth."
+22 # stonecutter 2011-08-10 18:06
"...we made better decisions because we used shared consciousness-s hared reality rule of reason best evidence democratic discourse free debate to figure out what's more likely than not to be the best decision...".

Gore's speech is excellent, but the excerpted quote is at the core of our political implosion, since we seem headed at warp speed back to the 19th century. If you take the time to read Ryan Lizza's exceptional in-depth piece on Bachmann in this week's New Yorker (just google it), you will recognize her for what she is, an evangelical fanatic, a hypocrite, a truly scary "Dominionist" pushing the NAR's "Seven Mountains" strategy for hard right evangelical Christian "dominion" (control) over ALL aspects of American life.

She has virtually no relevant business, leadership or executive experience or accomplishments in either local, state or national government, unless you count mouthing off on TV. Her world view and simplistic, authoritarian policy prescriptions might play well in Syria or Iran or certain red-state backwaters, but they're toxic to predominant U.S. values of science and reason. By implication Pawlenty, Santorum, Gingrich and certainly Perry and Palin are more or less in the same extreme mold, and the two Mormons, Huntsman and Romney, seem moderate by comparison.

Climate is NOT one of the "7 Mountains"; wonder why not?
-26 # kcdudeabides 2011-08-11 04:57
She is the right wing version of what Obama is to the left... he is a failed community organizer muslim from Kenya who has no practical executive experience or presence... Im sure he is a nice guy... but not presidential material.... He is in WAY over his head... Hillary would have been a better choice.... she is both experienced and pragmatic... She is a chick with a dick... the problem with american politics is that you have the least qualified marketable people in politics... like university professors, them who can't do , teach... There is enough stupidity to go around in Politics... interesting that you only focus on one side of it... why the divisive hate speak... when liberals are critical of the right they are considered noble... when it is done by the right is is considered scary fanatical ... you don't seem to get the hypocrisy... How bout finding common ground that unites us and work together for rational solutions... what a concept... then the glen becks and bill mahrs of the world would have to find real jobs...
+20 # feanorr 2011-08-10 18:20
Dear Mr.Gore, Please run for President NOW!

+26 # Frances Brock 2011-08-10 18:29
Give 'em Hell, Al!!!!
+17 # racp 2011-08-10 18:30
Perhaps I am reading too much in Gore's words or I am biased. But I believe that he is pointing to what I see as the end of the democratic experiment. The "Wisdom of the Masses" works only with independent thinkers. That is, the average opinion of a large group of people will be correct (the underlying reason why democracy work). But for that to be true, each individual has to reach an opinion independent of each other. Today when people don't read more than the headlines, and based their opinion on what they are told by one source, never listening the other side. The masses are clearly manipulated.... well, the wisdom of the masses doesn't apply any more.
+6 # Deward Houck 2011-08-10 22:00
I must disagree. Groups reach decisions better than the sum of their parts would suggest. Like a jury which deliberates, it can achieve what a group of 12 independent voters could not. Democracy is not the outcome of everyone doing what they think is in their own best interest. That's Capitalism, which, as you see, does not work, in the end, on a finite planet.
+2 # racp 2011-08-11 11:02
I think we disagree without disagreeing. First, I am talking about problem solving, not politics or economics. Second, from my perspective, the key word in your argument is "deliberation." That's why you have representatives , to deliberate (the "group" in the respresentative demmocracy is the Congress). And I think that's why the rule of unanimity to render a guilty veredict makes sense. It is also true that if you average 12 independent opinions they will be really close to the actual fact (BTW, hard to average 12 independent guilty and not guilty, what would it mean a 0.4 guilty? are you guilty or not?) Sorry, I digressed. The founding fathers believed that an electoral college (group of citizens elected to come together and elect the president) would always make better choices than voters making decisions independently, as you argue. Unfortunately that also is not longer the case becasue in practice the president is elected by a system that agregates individual votes in a unfair and grotesque manner. The current system is basically a quite imperfect aggregation of individual opinions. There is no deliberation, which would improve the outcome of the decision making process, and the individuals are not conducting independent assesments of reality with incomplete information, which ensurses that you cannot rely on the "wisdom of the masses" to get the correct answer etiher
+18 # Magars 2011-08-10 18:57
It is very important to start with curriculums in our schools and universities.Ta ke a look at book publishers,they are the same millionary conservativecom panies that support the tea baggers = religious fundamentalist institutions.Pr incipals,teache rs are afraid to talk about Climate Change.It's time to start a real change in Education in all aspects. First of all,the system should improve the curriculums to graduate new teachers in all subjects . It is difficult for a teacher that believe in Creatonism to explain that the snow and ice in the Himalayas has dropped by 30% since 1970 to mention one example. We need real open minded educators in the practice no in the burocratic reports by schools authorities and in empty speeches of those that represent educational system
+14 # Deward Houck 2011-08-10 22:02
I am a science teacher. Most of us get it. I teach global warming in my physics class. I also get complaints from some parents who think its politically subversive, but my school supports me, so long as I tie it to state standards and NCLB.
-57 # MalikTous 2011-08-10 19:01
I've seen smarter microcephalics in Bill Griffith's Dingburg in 'Zippy the Pinhead' comics. Gore the Bore should be chased off stage or nailed with a custard pie. I don't believe a thing that comes out of this cretin's mouth, just as I consider lip movement a sure sign of Wilhelm Klinton's prevarication.
+36 # jon 2011-08-10 19:23
"When you can't refute the message, demonize the messenger".

Straight down the republican dirty tricks road.
+14 # billy bob 2011-08-11 07:56
Long-winded empty insult. Do you actually have anything to say against Gore's arguments?
+11 # suzyskier 2011-08-11 10:01
Oh how I wish could vote twice in the red colunm for your very negative comments MalikTous. I feel sorry for you.
+8 # billy bob 2011-08-11 19:13
Maybe you could vote once in the RED column and have it counted by Diebold. You might get the same result.
+22 # Foxtrottango 2011-08-10 19:12
Even a fool know what is happening to the planet, these deniers can't come to term with the truth, much less with reality. After all, they have been told nothing but lies.

That truth might be that it's already too late to do anything about it. What the story, only fools repeat the past?

Well, it's happening and they will have to face it sooner or later.
+8 # Rosie 2011-08-10 19:25
To anyone with any concern for the environment, I highly recommend a book that should be a 'must read' for all high school students, "The View from Lazy Point" by Carl Safina. It's beautifully written with an unbelievable amount of clear, simple information. It could be very disturbing but for Safina's writing and hopeful messages throughout.
+22 # artscience 2011-08-10 20:09
A careful reading of all the science, indicates beyond any doubt that the human race is toast within 150-200 years. What we cannot control is our own self-destructiv e behavior. I'm afraid we are wired for extinction. And many of us will be in denial until the very end.
+9 # Sewall-Mueller 2011-08-10 21:09
GLOBAL WARMING EXISTS. I have lived many places in my 77yrs. When I lived in Seattle early 80's I had to wear a heavy parka in the winter. No more - I haven't owned one since then & now I live on the Oregon Coast. Just follow the weather map & you'll see. I hate that the polar bears are losing their homes!!!!!
-41 # Dickinseattle 2011-08-10 20:10
Anthropogenic global warming is not science, it is politics and extreme enviromentalist agenda. For many ill informed liberal peer group conformists it is religious membership in the group. That is why debate is never encouraged or allowed by them, and why their best arguments always go to character assassination and guilt by assocciation. Few of them even realize they are promoting a thesis originated by Britian's PM Margaret Thatcher to promote atomic power plants to avoid strikes and deal with the oil embargoes then in the 80's. She established the funding to promote the BS about human caused CO2. The oceans more directly effect our weather but the lag times for that and heat caused CO2 increase is around 800 year cycles (MWP). You need to account for the real causes of the heat which goes to solar and Milankovitch Earth orbit cycles, at least 5 cycles each. If you don't know about these and the thermohaline ocean circulator currents, what are you talking about?! Read Alexander Cockburns 4 articles on the subject to retain your group think Progressive membership.
+18 # jon 2011-08-10 20:51
Taking care of the environment is not extremist, it is CONSERVATIVE.
+20 # Ken Hall 2011-08-10 22:07
Amazing amount of bull woofy assembled in just one paragraph. You are worthy of a Rush Limbaugh Dittohead award.
+14 # Jorge 2011-08-11 00:05
Yes Ken. Let's call it the Rush Limbaugh Shithead award. Even though Rush flunked out of his first year in college he has a PhD (Piled higher and Deeper) in lying.
+9 # Deward Houck 2011-08-10 22:12
No, no, it is actually science. Born of hypothesis, and testeed in labs and in the field, and subjected to peer review. It is as real as gravity or evolution. In other words, it is science. That's what science is. It may yet turn out ot be wrong because that too is what science is, but I doubt it. Gravity still pulls me down every day.
-15 # kcdudeabides 2011-08-11 04:40
Amen... They are buying what they are selling... Well meaning people who love the earth and they should... Angry negative agenda perpetuated by those selling them something ... they don't realize they have been duped... Muck raking, pot stirring that masks the slight of hand agenda ... THINK
+2 # billy bob 2011-08-11 07:53
What's the opposite of "amen"?
+9 # bobby t. 2011-08-10 21:19
eric fromm predicted this in his book, escape to freedom. by destroying the world, they are escaping it. not to freedom but to some kind of nirvana in their idea of heaven. sick mothers.
-35 # Hot Doggie 2011-08-10 21:20
Al Gore is misleading people. There is no global warming except what comes from Gore's rhetoric. Polar bears can swim and they are increasing. The CO2 that comes from my exhaled breath is used by plants to grow. I believe that Gore is trying to establish a con job so he can make money. Don't fall for Gore's scam. And if you don't want to believe me and want to go with Gore, then start sending your CO2 payments to Gore. See where that gets you.
+14 # Isar 2011-08-10 22:05
When we politicize scientific evidence, we distort fact and bring everything into the realm of belief or faith. It makes it simpler, doesn't it? Once you decide to believe something, it doesn't matter what the scientific evidence proves or disproves. I would love to see Al Gore run again for president, though if the election goes again to the Supreme Court, he would lose again. Just think how different our country would be today if Al Gore had been president for eight years instead of Dubya. Oh well.....maybe if I just BELIEVE that Al Gore could one day be President, I could make it happen.
-34 # Hot Doggie 2011-08-10 22:11
Al Gore is an unemployed business man who is trying to start a you-pay-him CO2 business.
+10 # billy bob 2011-08-11 07:52
Who's paying you?
+9 # Jorge 2011-08-11 13:45
billy bob- I believe it was Thom Hartmann that said that the RWNJs receive $25 per post that they get for posts on Progressive sites. There is lots of money sloshing around the RW "think" tanks like Cato, Heritage, etc. Like KC Dude, their job is to create conflict on Progressive sites, distract/obfusc ate/intimidate/ lie; keep Progressives on the defensive. They are serving their right-wing masters. RSN and Truthout probably need to do a better job of screening the RWNJs/trolls. Some sites delete a comment when there are many thumb-downs or negative ratings and then block the RWNJ until he/she uses another on-line name. Then the cycle repeats.
+9 # billy bob 2011-08-11 19:17
Right wingers don't seem to be even trying to mask it. The funny irony is that the trolls make themselves look so stupid on this site that it strengthens our arguments against them.

Also, when some troll posts the same ridiculous clichés you hear limb-blow spouting every day, we get plenty of practice showing their nonsense for what it is. Left unchecked, the internet could be the downfall of the conservative movement that started with nixon.
+9 # suzyskier 2011-08-11 13:14
Dear Mr Hot Doggie believe what you want but that doesn't make the problem go away. If you want to believe your right wing psuedo scientists no ones going to stop you. But Al Gore is a very smart man who wouldn't be doing this if he didn't have scientific evidence to back him up.
-15 # Trace65 2011-08-11 03:43
he's just concerned his carbon credits won't be worth as much as if EVERYONE agreed with HIS nonsense
-20 # kcdudeabides 2011-08-11 04:34
what a torrent of hate speak ... us against them.. rich vs poor,big business vs the working class...right vs left... You guys are the tools of media... believing Nancy Pelosi who is worth 58 million & Bill Mahr who is worth 23 million is telling you... Just like a boxer whose strategy is to anger his opponent to get him acting emotionally so he can land a knock out punch... you guys parrot all the wild eyed left wing nonsense you hear... I am not a right winger or left winger... Free thinking realistic visionary here... not tied to any club that would have me as a member.... You guys believe that the government is here to help you...They are not... they are here to help themselves... that dosnt mean that there are not useful functions of government there are... Regulation of air travel... national defense... building roads, damns, infrastructure. .. not a million dollars to study the affect of swamp rats on arcadian culture... if you don't think the nanny state is a problem... you are in deeper than you know... You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows... don't follow leaders and watch the parking meters...stop listening to NPR and Fox news... they are all lying to you... they are selling...clima te change is a business.. they obviously have successfully marketed to you all...good luck with that...We are ALL American..Commo n Solutions, Common Goals,Cooperati on
+10 # billy bob 2011-08-11 08:10
WOW! That was a REALLY long sentence! Were you just brainstorming a list of repuglican clichés?

I had a hard time sifting through it all, but I think you left out a few, like:

-government isn't the solution, it's the problem... something about "political correctness"... why should you have to pay taxes... blah, blah, "climategate".. . monica lewinsky... blah, blah the Kennedy's...

Keep working on it. It'll take a while, but you still might be able to compile a complete list before the Arctic Ocean melts completely.
-11 # Martintfre 2011-08-11 09:53
Government has the legitimate function of protecting people from harming one another and otherwise staying the hell out of the way.
+8 # billy bob 2011-08-11 19:20
So you're all for consumer protection agencies, the EPA, the USDA, and more regulation on huge corporations, RIGHT?!?
+1 # Cliff 2011-08-14 19:41
You can't be serious that this is all government does for you. Who built the roads? Come on, think a little harder.
+7 # suzyskier 2011-08-11 13:17
Well although you claim not to be a right winger you sure as heck are awfully close. You seem to believe the right take on all these issues.
+9 # fredboy 2011-08-11 08:08
Ask my friends in Tuscaloosa about global warming.
Or Dallas this summer.
-10 # Martintfre 2011-08-11 09:52
Yea - it never got hot in Texas before.
-4 # for parity 2011-08-12 21:28
Yep it's summer. Dallas - Ft. Worth is a massive urban heat island - hard surfaces - millions of cars putting out heat, air conditioners, forced air heating - light bulbs, millions of humans (all 98.6 degrees), factories, businesses.

So - let's go a few miles W of Dallas, out in the sticks and look at the official NASA temp record:

Gee -120 years of cooling.
+1 # Cliff 2011-08-14 19:46
This is so dumb. Look at one very small percentage of the planet and make a statement.
0 # for parity 2011-08-15 19:02
Really Cliff - NASA's the boss - as them to explain why?

The entire state of CA has been in a slight cooling trend for the past quarter century?

Look - the earth has been in a general warming trend for hundreds of years. Before that it was in a cooling trend for hundreds of years.

Sea level along the West Coast has been static or falling for a quarter century or so.

What is dump is not understanding why with Dallas, Chicago, etc . . the rural areas around the heat islands are doing something entirely different.

Most of the additional warming they shrill - is bogus very area specific in nature.

Cyclonic activity has not increased during the past 70 years - just the opposite. The Arctic ice cap is doing nothing unusual (just why do you think old - the oldest ice - in the Arctic cap is only 5-7 years old?

The drought in the US at current is minimal compared to a dozen other droughts since the great dust bowl in the 1930's.

And I was just up in central CA - no one can remember the last time the ripening of blackberries was running a month behind. I always pick buckets full up there in Aug. Got a handful this year -- tons of green ones, however. But if they're early just one year - everyone is out blaming it on global warming.

Now - that is dumb.
0 # for parity 2011-08-13 09:00

. Look at yet another official NASA historical chart, folks:

Wow - and that is a huge metropolitan area. Even the "AGW" hasn't overtaken the cooling down since the 1930's.

But don't worry, Hansen and his cronies - have been busy at work, going back into the data and adjusting the old temperatures downward, so that it appears to get warming. Fortunately - there are those who have been capturing the data. It will come to bear.

The question here - and it's a common thing about fear mongering and conspiracy theories -- fredboy, and millions of others, actually think that Tuscaloosa has been rabidly warming up in recent years - and it scares them.

I'd be more concerned about the next move, which is rather do us -- the next 300-600 year cooling cycle is due - sometime between now - and roughly a hundred years from now. And that will produce major droughts worldwide.
+10 # Margaret Morris 2011-08-11 08:36
The manufactured doubt is financed largely by Exxon (although they backed off later), and the Kochs. It is given cred by the Murdoch empire. Contact their advertisers about the latter and threaten to boycott their product. This is the technique that brought down News of the World in UK.

Long time homesteading/DI Y magazine Mother Earth published a great article in this month's issue outlining global warming effects. The zine is not political and avoids taking political positions, but they had it with the deniers. Climate change has dire consequences for victory gardens as well as industrial ag.

Too many catastrophic weather phenomena people were simply not prepared for. This is the new normal. We have to face it to deal with it.
-19 # Martintfre 2011-08-11 09:28
Al Gore is Bullshit.
+7 # Jorge 2011-08-11 13:52
Martinfre- Do you get $25 per post or more than that? Read the book by Martha Stout, PhD. "The Sociopath Next Door" regarding her findings that 4% of the population is born with no conscience, never develops a conscience, and those people become CEOs/banksters/ government heads/trolls.
+6 # billy bob 2011-08-11 19:24
If they're paying him $25 per post they aren't getting their money's worth. Look at it this way, the more the trolls say, the more their ideas are openly and aggressively discredited. Maybe a left-winger is secretly funding most of the right wing trolls we see everytime there's an article offensive to the fossil fuel industry.

Right-wing trolls on RSN are like political speed bags.
+5 # billhabedank 2011-08-11 10:39
After the summer we have been having and people still deny global climate change caused by humans is absolutely outrageous. I expect soon that Texans will be moving to Minnesota to escape the summer heat. I would tell them to go farther north because it has been hot here too.
Most of us know this climate change is manmade but to those who argue it is not cannot still escape the fact that it is getting hotter. That is the trend and no matter the real cause it spells real disaster down the road if we do not prepare for it.
The rich don't care because they figure they can afford to control their environment or move to any place they chose. Good luck with that!
0 # Cliff 2011-08-14 19:51
How can people deny that cars, industry, air-conditionin g, etc. will have no effect on the climate? Take your faith and put your hand on the Bible. Then put it on the burner, and see if it protects you.
+6 # VSweet 2011-08-11 12:24
I am tired of being rape and robbed by
Corporate America Republicans and the T Parties. Targeting and raping all Senior Citizens to give more of their 2 years of frozen meager monthly income. By the way, we SENIORS invested and paid into this government program known as Social Security.
I am tired of seeing my fellow working class citizens and their families being raped and forced to work two part-time jobs without any health care benefits to sustain their families.
I am tired of seeing our Unemployed Citizens being raped with no creation of new jobs and watching existing jobs being outsourced into foreign countries.
I am tired being raped and targeted to give MORE when Corporate America and the T Party continue to exempt the RICH and Wealthy of this nation from paying their fair share!!
We the vulnearable of America are not DEAD!! We will not lay down as if we were!!
+9 # zepcat 2011-08-11 14:09
There has always been climate change as evidenced by prehistoric findings. However, there were not billions of humans inhabiting earth at that time. Only idiots like Tea party members, ideological right wing bible thumpers or stubborn greed wealth grabbers would try to deny that humans are not now having a devastating effect on the environment, and global warming is only one of them. It seems inevitable that those who are against sound environmental stewardship will continue to shit in their own back yards until they can no longer survive. We never seem to learn from our mistakes of the past for if we did we would not be engaged in wars and back stabbing our neighbors but would be passing world laws that will ensure our existence and preserving our natural resources. As long as we have insane religions in control of peoples minds we are doomed.
-1 # for parity 2011-08-12 22:00
Nice name calling. Maybe you should check out the more than progressive views of one, Freeman Dyson.

My personal view is that indeed man has done great harm to the environment, and that man-made global warming is 90-99% a hoax.

Showing such intolerance - name calling - toward an entire group of people is known as bigotry, by the way.
+3 # Mary Lou Morrison 2011-08-12 15:35

-3 # for parity 2011-08-12 21:18
I don't know exactly where you moved to in WY.. Let's see a quick glance at NASA official temp records:

Here's Newcastle, WY (NE Cor):

Riverton - just W of center:

Laramie - SE Cor:

Pathfinder Dam - S just E of center (now - if you live around here - you'd better be looking for warmer clothes):

Damn near every time someone says what you say - I go look at the official record - and there is no evidence of warming..

Yes - if you go into the heart of major cities, like Chicago, you betcha, but if you go out about 50 miles N. E., S., and W. - it's a different story.

Cities are heat islands. Little is happening out in the sticks.

Even Greenland is not getting warmer:

Have a cool day - and stop loosing sleep.
0 # Cliff 2011-08-14 19:56
Oh really? Fact: Greenland is melting. I have a good friend who has made annual treks there to measure the melting. What is your theory on what is causing the melting? Or will you deny that it is melting?
+1 # for parity 2011-08-15 20:16
It 's natural cycles - and won't last much longer - just like last time.

Meanwhile down under:

The polar blast that brought snow to downtown Auckland for the first time in 72 years - and created the city's coldest day on record - is set to worsen in many parts of the North and South Islands.

I going to guess that you missed the last several hundred (if not thousand) stories about the record cold and record snowfall - and all life in lakes being snuffed out - causing great human suffering and death - in other parts of the world.

So many mini - minor - major - and great climate cycles always going on.

From my 59 years - all seems rather normal.
0 # for parity 2011-08-15 20:18
Cliff - let me pose this to you. You do understand that if the current little mini cycle of minor melting in Greenland continues for a few hundred years - it will still be very minor - and still will remain a great storehouse of solid ice - right?

And then if it starts cooling and refreezing (which will normally happen much much faster - the nature of ice - depending on drought conditions vs wet) - what will this all have been about?
-2 # Hot Doggie 2011-08-12 23:29
Thank you For Parity. And those of you who still believe Al Gore, then start sending him your CO2 payments for breathing. And if you were jogging, then send him double a payment. Afterall, you're putting in double the CO2 amount into the atmosphere.

Will people ever wake up?

On the lighter side, here's some humor.
Al Gore running for President in 2012.
-4 # for parity 2011-08-13 09:03
Oh come on, he already tried to steal one election. He sued to overturn the election, and he lost. Goodness, everyone missed it, when his counsel, David Boies, pleaded with the Florida Supreme Court that their was no way in hell that they had any legal right to order a statewide recount - that it would be shot down.

Gore had hired a good and smart man - it turns out.

Besides, the liberal media's sponsored recounts showed that Gore lost anyway. What that pompous man put this country thru.
-1 # Donald Hulse 2011-08-19 22:36
While I agree wholeheartedly about global warming, what was it we used to arrive at concensus again? We (the progressives) need to learn to sincerely gear the discourse to those that need to be knowledgeable on the topic at hand. (PLEASE notice I did NOT say taught, that may be the biggest downfall) We have a brilliant president but he arouses the ire of so many because he LECTURES....... ..(I on one hand appreciate info regardless of format and I know he couldn't fix his airplane if his life depended on it.....

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