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Queally reports: "Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey elevated the rhetoric against Russian President Vladimir Putin and directly invoked the idea that a new Cold War-like posture is now being taken by the U.S. military."

Dempsey told the audience that his military planners are pulling out Cold War-era options for how to deal with crisis in Ukraine. (photo: DoD/cc/SSG Sean K. Harp)
Dempsey told the audience that his military planners are pulling out Cold War-era options for how to deal with crisis in Ukraine. (photo: DoD/cc/SSG Sean K. Harp)


Gen. Dempsey: We're Pulling Out Our Cold War Military Plans Over Ukraine

By Jon Queally, Common Dreams

25 July 14

 

hairman of the Joint Chiefs compares Russia activities to Soviet invasion of Poland in 1939; State Department makes new claims, but won't show the evidence

Hours after the U.S. State Department on Thursday claimed (though failed to describe) new evidence that Russia's military was both increasing the flow of arms to rebel fighters in eastern Ukraine and firing artillery at Ukrainian Army positions across its border, Chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey elevated the rhetoric against Russian President Vladimir Putin and directly invoked the idea that a new Cold War-like posture is now being taken by the U.S. military.

Speaking from the Aspen Security Forum, a defense industry conference in Colorado, Dempsey said Pentagon planners are now looking at military options “we haven’t had to look at for 20 years" and warned that Putin—who he characterized as escalating the crisis inside Ukraine—“may actually light a fire” he cannot control. And not just in Ukraine or eastern Europe, Dempsey said, but globally.

Drawing a dramatic historic comparison, Dempsey equated Putin's alleged involvement in eastern Ukraine to the Soviet Union's invasion of Poland in 1939.

“It does change the situation. You’ve got a Russian government that has made a conscious decision to use its military force inside another sovereign nation to achieve its objectives. It’s the first time since 1939 or so that that’s been the case,” Dempsey said. “They clearly are on a path to assert themselves differently not just in Eastern Europe, but Europe in the main, and towards the United States.”

In a separate caustic charge, Dempsey blamed the "rising tide of nationalism" seen in parts of Europe as a created in many ways by "Russian activities” in Ukraine, a strange charge given that the key Ukrainian nationalist parties are represented in the new Ukrainian government in Kiev opposed by Moscow but backed by the U.S. government and many in the European Union.

Earlier in the day, State Department spokesperson Marie Harf said, “We have new evidence that the Russians intend to deliver heavier and more powerful multiple rocket launchers to the separatist forces in Ukraine, and have evidence that Russia is firing artillery from within Russia to attack Ukrainian military positions.”

The charges became instant headlines in the U.S. media, though it remains unclear what level of evidence exists to support the claims.

When pushed by reporters at the briefing to give any details about the source of the intelligence or evidence to support the news charges against Russia, Harf would provide none. From the briefing transcript:

QUESTION: I would like to know what you’re basing this new evidence that the Russians intend to send any heavier equipment.

MS. HARF: It’s based – uh-huh. It’s based on some intelligence information. I can’t get into the sources and methods behind it, but I was able to be able to tell you that.

QUESTION: Is there a YouTube video or something that you can point us to --

MS. HARF: Do you have any other questions?

QUESTION: -- that would show? I’m just wondering if you – what it is. I mean --

MS. HARF: I just said I wasn’t going to give you the underlying source for it.

QUESTION: Marie, did you --

QUESTION: But that --

QUESTION: So look, it’s not – the question is --

MS. HARF: So if you prefer – if you prefer I don’t give you more information and just say nothing if I can’t give you the source --

QUESTION: I’d prefer --

MS. HARF: No, I’m actually asking you a question here. If I can’t give you the source and method, would you prefer I not give you the information?

QUESTION: Marie, I think that it would be best for all concerned here --

MS. HARF: Are there any other questions?

QUESTION: -- if when you make an allegation like that, you’re able to back it up with something more than just “because I say so.”

MS. HARF: Okay. That’s not what I said. It’s based on intelligence, it’s not because I said so.

QUESTION: Well, it’s not me that’s making these allegations. I mean, you guys get up at the UN Security Council and make these allegations. The Secretary gets on the Sunday shows to make these allegations. And then when you present your evidence to back up those allegations, it has appeared to, at least for some, fall short of definitive proof. Do you --

MS. HARF: I would strongly disagree with that.

In a separate development on Thursday, the founding coalition of the Ukraine parliament in Kiev collapsed on Thursday as Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk resigned alongside the withdrawal of other key parties that came together as a block after the overthrow of the previous Ukraine government earlier this year.

"I announce my resignation in connection with the dissolution of the parliamentary coalition and the blocking of government initiatives," Yatsenyuk said in a statement before parliament. "The coalition has fallen apart, laws haven’t been voted on, soldiers can’t be paid, there’s no money to buy rifles, there’s no possibility to store up fuel. What options do we have now?”

Meanwhile, heavy fighting continues in eastern Ukraine, forcing an increasingly dire refugee crisis along the border as eastern Ukrainians trying to escape the fighting—which includes heavy shelling in civilian areas—are surging over the Russia border in search of safety from the Ukraine Army.

According to the ITAR-TASS News Agency, citing the Russian Federal Migration Service Sergei Kalyuzhny, "at least 2.7 million Ukrainian citizens have come to Russia from the conflict-torn eastern regions."

The ongoing violence and international political tensions over Ukraine continue to boil in the wake of last week's tragedy surrounding Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 which is widely believed, though not confirmed, to have been shot down "mistakenly" by Ukrainian rebels in the east.

Appearing on Democracy Now! on Thursday, editor of The Nation magazine Katrina vanden Heuvel expressed frustration over the continued poverty of U.S. media coverage of events in Ukraine that often lack context and a full understanding of the dynamics that are driving the ongoing conflict.

"I think the big story that has gone unreported in the kind of one-sided media narrative that Americans have been given in these last months is the unreported war in the southeast of Ukraine," vanden Huevel said.

She goes on to criticize overall U.S. foreign policy towards Ukraine, with particular criticism for both Secretary of State John Kerry and the continued push by the Obama administration to isolate Russia instead of engaging with it.

"Kerry often sounds like he’s the secretary of war, not the secretary of state," she said. "We have allied ourselves, tethered ourselves to the Kiev government in a way that may make it very difficult to find a way beyond a new Cold War, if not a hot war."

Watch the entire interview.

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+19 # RMDC 2014-07-25 15:59
Marie Harf needs to go back to the sarin gas snafu when the Obama regime claimed it had hard evidence that the gas attack was carried out by Syria. Russia did its own investigation and Putin said quite openly in a press briefing that "if the Americans have the evidence, then they must show it. If they do not show it, then they don't have it."

That's the case now. The Obama liars are not showing their evidence, so they must not have it. They are lying and bluffing.

GW Bush taught us a lesson -- "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on >>>> " Well, he forgot the rest but it is shame on me. We won't be fooled again. Marie Harf can show the evidence of shut the fuck up. Of course, that is what she is saying. She's saying she's going to shut up.
 
 
+9 # in deo veritas 2014-07-26 10:23
Same bullshit that we let Bush get away with! NOT THIS TIME!
 
 
+2 # geraldom 2014-07-26 16:02
RMDC, it really doesn't matter anymore. The U.S. is winning the propaganda war. Words are meaningless. News articles tell the whole story:

http://news.yahoo.com/grieving-dutch-minister-made-europe-think-russia-sanctions-003553898--sector.html

http://news.yahoo.com/eu-hits-russian-intelligence-chiefs-sanctions-033611642--finance.html

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/vladimir-putin-ukraine-separatist-militia/2014/07/25/id/584967/

It seems that you and activista feel that Putin is playing his cards right, so let's see how well that has turned out so far:

o Since the illegal Kiev govt launched its attacks on eastern Ukraine without any fear of Russian help for the rebels, starting with Slavyansk, how many innocent civilians have died so far, men, women, and, most especially, children? Thousands perhaps or more?

o Has Putin’s pacifist ways helped his cause any in terms of preventing or reducing sanctions against Russia?

o How much deeper has the hole become that Putin has dug for himself as the situation worsens in eastern Ukraine?

o As more and more innocent people are dying in eastern Ukraine everyday because of Ukrainian forces, the Ukraine military is slowly closing in on the rebel forces in Donetsk and Lugansk. Putin is losing the war on the geopolitical front, and he will soon lose complete control over Ukraine to the United States and it puppet proxy army in Europe, NATO.

(Continued)
 
 
+1 # geraldom 2014-07-26 16:05
(Continued)

You know that old saying, “An ounce of prevention is worth so much more than the cure?” I’m not saying that a Russian military intervention early on in eastern Ukraine in order to temporarily set up a military shield to protect the people of eastern Ukraine before things got anywhere this bad would’ve cured the Ukraine problem, but it certainly would’ve stopped the spread of the cancer of Ukrainian military forces on the verge of taking over all of Ukraine at a very high cost to innocent human life, and it would’ve prevented the tragedy of Flight MH17 which has now put Putin and Russia into a very fragile, compromising, and extremely vulnerable position. And, it would’ve certainly forced the illegal govt in Kiev to negotiate with the anti-Kiev govt forces in the east if it wanted to end this civil war.

All that I can see right now for Putin and Russia is the hole getting deeper and wider and becoming much more difficult to get out of. Attempting to Ignore the situation for Putin is the worst possible thing that he can do. Defending himself in a very weak and subservient manner is no better.

By the way, RMDC, expert witnesses claim that they saw Ukrainian forces using White Phosphorous weapons against the people of eastern Ukraine, a highly illegal chemical weapon by international law, even when used against military forces.

(Continued)
 
 
0 # geraldom 2014-07-26 16:05
(Continued)

But that’s okay when military forces backed by the U.S. use White Phosphorous against the side that the U.S. is against since the U.S., as it has always done in the past, will protect its allies from being legally held accountable.
 
 
+4 # Radscal 2014-07-26 17:26
Marie Harf was a CIA Analyst before becoming a spokesperson for both the Obama Administration AND the CIA in 2008. Interesting double-duty.
 
 
0 # Douglas Jack 2014-07-28 12:49
Not only did the USA have no proof, they & Saudi allies were directly financing, arming & supplying those mercenaries who did. We need a massive apology for war-crimes from Obama. When the USA, Canada, NATO & Israel are arming dissidents & mercenaries who by the declaration of UN Human Rights investigator Carla Del Ponte "according to what we have established so far, it is at the moment, opponents of the regime who are using Sarin gas" , then James38's condemnation of the Syrian government is inappropriate. James offers no apology. Neither do USA, Canada, NATO & Israeli sabre-rattlers threatening carpet bombing of Syrian people offer apology nor war-reparations . The Syrian people according to a NATO poll are 70% in support of the Assad government. http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/05/31/nato-data-assad-winning-the-war-for-syrians-hearts-and-minds/
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2013/07/30/316273/west-war-crimes-in-syria-exposed/ Given these fact on the ground on the source & mercenary agents employing Sarin gas, should Canada, US, NATO & Israel be bombed? http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_08_30/Syrian-rebels-take-responsibility-for-the-chemical-attack-admitting-the-weapons-were-provided-by-Saudis-1203/?from=menu
 
 
+15 # indian weaver 2014-07-25 16:05
the two bit jackasses like Dempsey just have to start another war, the bigger the better, for job security, and to cash in on the war machine's big bucks. one reasonably decent defense doode was McChrystal who spoke the truth. He's now tending to his garden in his back yard since being fired by the equally criminal jackass Petraeus (sp?). And, all along this is your basic "False Flag" conflict designed and instigated by yours truly: "The finest fighting force on Earth", the amerikan facist military machine, just no end to their greed and inhumanity to man and beast and my Great Mother Earth. the more poison and terror dumped on everyone but themselves, the better. Horrible. Just like the FBI creating all those "terrorist plots" in amerika to justify their corrupt paychecks, armed forces will continue to create wars out of the thin blue air. This government has become 100% dishonest, or shall I say: evil.
 
 
+13 # dquandle 2014-07-26 00:52
Only at the behest of two bit jackasses like Obama.

McChrystal is a war criminal and the architect of staggering atrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan, working intimately with Cheney/Rumsfeld and then drone murdering with Obama/JSOC.

"McChrystal was always quite dismissive about APPF," a senior Nato official in Kabul said. "It was too resource-intens ive and so slow we would have lost long before it had been spread to the whole country."

He added: "He wanted to move to a much more informal model, which is far less visible and unaccountable, using Noorzai to find people through his own networks and then simply paying out cash for them to defend their areas."

That “informal model” is likely to be basically the same model used in Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador and Nicaragua – the ‘El Salvador Option’ that was also used in Iraq of paying and training native forces under US trainers and advisers who in reality bring them under US command but allow plausible deniability of responsibility for torture for deliberate and accidental killings of civilian and armed opponents of a US backed client government. This may be what McChrystal meant when he wrote that “we must conduct classic counter-insurge ncy operations”.

from

http://inplaceoffear.blogspot.com/2010/03/one-more-push-for-what-in-afghanistan.html

http://prairieweather.typepad.com/big_blue_stem/2010/06/the-curious-interactions-of-cheney-rumsfeld-and-mcchrystal-and-blackwater.html
 
 
+4 # indian weaver 2014-07-26 10:46
Thank you. I stand corrected. They are all assholes in my opinion, since I was wrong about McChrystal. Why was he dumped by Patreus (sp?) after all? They are two pees in a penis. Add the evil Blackwater and Silent Operations, the entire war machine such as Cheney's Halliburton and the other 1000s like him / them, and we have Stalins Gulag / Hitler's Storm Troopers in Amerikan uniforms. Rather frightening, internationally and domestically, exactly their point. I was once for gun control but now wonder - taking the violence as the example from Obama, why would citizens be any different from him. He is, after all, our "leader", or whatever ... ha ha: the shill stooge front man boy toy for War Criminals.
 
 
+13 # Buddha 2014-07-25 16:56
"Dempsey said Pentagon planners are now looking at military options “we haven’t had to look at for 20 years"

After hearing this comment, John McCain got a hard-on for the first time in decades without needing to use Viagra. It has lasted for more than 4 hours, he is seeing his physician.
 
 
-15 # Shorey13 2014-07-25 23:21
As someone who spent three years, six months and 2 days in the Air Force during peacetime (1958-1962), thanks to Ike's Universal Military Service, i can assure you that the military in a time of peace is hopelessly dysfunctional and incompetent. Small wonder that Dempsey is trying so hard to gin up a new war.
That said, diplomacy with people like Putin (and nearly everyone in the middle East) is a jerk-off exercise. Power only understands equal power. And sanctions are equally useless when Europe is too craven to participate.
Maybe a little saber-rattling is needed after all.

God help us!
 
 
+13 # CTPatriot 2014-07-26 06:18
WTF are you talking about?! Prior to the US instigated coup in Ukraine which caused serious threats to Russia's interests and allies inside of Ukraine, Obama and Putin had successfully used diplomacy to solve our differences in both Iran and Syria.

Your entire comment sounds like it was produced by and for the benefit of the US neocons, who have yet to see a war they haven't wanted to involve us in.
 
 
-7 # HowardMH 2014-07-26 10:33
Successfully used diplomacy to solve our differences in both Iran and Syria. Yea that's right the US did nothing "thanks to Obama the Wimp" while Russia supplied what ever arms Syria wanted to continue fighting the rebals. Now the Russians are firing across the Ukraine border for two weeks while Obama the Wimp is raising money for democrats in Calif.
 
 
+7 # in deo veritas 2014-07-26 10:39
RIGHT ON! The farce that passes for news media has completely ignored that coup. This whole thing began because of the British supported EU doing everything it could to coerce the Ukraine into joining them instead of Russia. And overlooked also is how many dollars of the US taxpayers was sent to aid and abet them!
 
 
+5 # geraldom 2014-07-26 18:20
Viktor Yanukovych made the right decision when he decided to go with Russia on a trade deal rather than going with the EU, and not because he was pro-Russian as the U.S. accused him of being. His decision reflected a pro-Ukrainian position.

Last night on "Real Time With Bill Maher," Amy Goodman of "Democracy Now" expressed truth to power explaining to Mr. Maher and the audience and the viewers as to why Yanukovych went with Russia.

The EU deal would've legally bound and require Ukraine to trade only with the EU nations, and specifically excluded any trade with Russia. The EU deal left Russia out in the cold, and the icing on the cake that forced Yanukovych from taking the EU deal was a little caveat that would've have required Ukraine to join and participate in NATO.

The deal that Russia offered Ukraine would've loaned Ukraine 15 to 20 Billion dollars and had no strings attached whatsoever and would've allowed Ukraine to trade with any other country or group of countries it so desired such as the EU.

The EU deal, if Ukraine wanted to receive any extortion money from the IMF, would've had to establish an austerity program like the one that exists in Greece, as the new illegitimate Kiev govt has already done and which is already causing extreme hardship on the Ukrainian people by increased energy costs in their everyday lives among other things. Russia’s deal, as I’ve indicated above, had no strings attached.
 
 
+8 # Maturus 2014-07-26 07:17
It can't have taken all of that time to remove your brain. What were you doing for 3 years, 6 months, 1 day and 23 hours?
While you're trying to remember that, please try to understand that we don't need your 'enlightened' ideas over here in Europe. Perhaps you could sit down with Brux and massage each other's world views.
 
 
+2 # in deo veritas 2014-07-26 10:36
considering the corruption that has driven us to this point if we the people do not stop these lunatics there is no chance that we will see God Bless America. We may be fooled but He is not!God helps those who help themselves
 
 
+5 # indian weaver 2014-07-26 10:57
Putin is more " respectable and believable" than Obama in recent years on international issues, no comparison. Putin sounds downright decent in his restraint with Obama's invasion of his territory around the Crimea. Thank God Putin grasped the Russian Crimea tightly in the face of Obama's terrorism. I like Putin far more than Obama anymore, from what little I know and read on these and similar pages. I assume he is an asshole too. Many Russians must feel the same about him as I feel about Obama and his terrorist regime. But, from here, Putin is a super politician and diplomat by comparison.
 
 
+9 # fenox 2014-07-26 05:01
Inside the US it's not the producer or the seller who is responsible for gun crimes, just the user.
So why this sudden change of mind outside the US?
Where Putin is suddenly a criminal just because he is the seller?/
 
 
+11 # tedrey 2014-07-26 06:26
An interview where I can be proud of the reporters! They didn't just swallow the unfounded claims, but demanded evidence, and then published the refusal of the spokesperson to provide any. It's a long time since we saw such gumption in the press.

As for Dempsey, if he isn't demoted or sanctioned at once, as Truman did when MacArthur tried to escalate the Korean War, then Obama is equally responsible for this aggressive stance.

(As for the comparison with Poland in 1939, I may suggest rather the Austrian Anschluss of 1938 and similar regime changes forced by Germany at the time, for those who remember their history.)
 
 
+7 # Maturus 2014-07-26 07:12
Careful Tedrey, remember there's no evidence of the Russians moving troops anywhere at the moment so there is no comparison to make at this time.
 
 
+4 # tedrey 2014-07-26 15:55
Maturus, I should have been more explicit. It is not the Russians who overthrew the legitimate government of Ukraine.
 
 
+10 # Citizen Mike 2014-07-26 07:16
Let's face it--our economy needs permanent war as a profit center for our last remaining domestic manufacturing sector, which is military contracting. The end of the cold war was tragic end to a goldmine for these businesses, so they stirred up the Middle East, knowing that the culture there never lets go of a vendetta. And now this, a new cold war emerging as Obama struggles to get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

It is possible to normalize permanent war. Step one has already been taken, the end of the draft, which removes the possibility of a strong and active public antiwar movement. Our troops are now 100% expendable volunteer chumps, not our own sons taken by legal force.

The next step should be to issue war bonds to finance permanent war, so that it will come out of the pockets of the warmongering conservative segment of the public and not use our tax dollars. That will further silence any emerging objections to continuous war.

Some day we will look back and see how our culture has been distorted by an over-all fascination with violent death. It is all on one string: Our eagerness to wage war, our attachment to guns, and our insistence on keeping the custom of execution.
 
 
+10 # Kootenay Coyote 2014-07-26 07:50
Harf boasts 'We have evidence...' then dithers & squeals when asked for it. Why believe a word she says?
 
 
+4 # Radscal 2014-07-26 17:36
Our trillion dollar surveillance state gets all its evidence from youtube and social media. That's reassuring.
 
 
+1 # dsepeczi 2014-07-28 08:02
Quoting Kootenay Coyote:
Harf boasts 'We have evidence...' then dithers & squeals when asked for it. Why believe a word she says?


That seems to be the universal norm amongst our State Department. They all say we have proof and you'll just have to trust us that we do. It worked for Iraq but I hope we've learned our lesson this time around.
 
 
+12 # RMDC 2014-07-26 08:04
It is hard to believe that Gen. Dempsey could make such an ignorant statement:


“It does change the situation. You’ve got a Russian government that has made a conscious decision to use its military force inside another sovereign nation to achieve its objectives. It’s the first time since 1939 or so that that’s been the case,” Dempsey said. “They clearly are on a path to assert themselves differently not just in Eastern Europe, but Europe in the main, and towards the United States.”


In fact, it was the US which overthrew the legitimate government of a sovereign nation. And the US with NATO has been on a march to gobble up former Soviet States in Easter Europe, a march that leads right up to the borders of Russia. NATO is a military alliance with an aggressive posture.

And why should Russia not assert itself in Eastern Europe. Russia is forming a trading groups similar to the EU for Eastern European and Asian nations. Why not? The EU blocks trade with these nations. Why should they not organize?

Clearly the Pentagon is looking for a new enemy and a new war to spend money on. A new Cold War has been one of Obama's great objectives. He wants to out-do Bush as the "war president." He doing a good job. Obama will be reviled in history as the war president by everyone on earth who believes in peace and respect for all nations, races, and political systems.

Making military decisions based on completely false statements is a really serious problem. Fire Dempsey.
 
 
+2 # in deo veritas 2014-07-26 10:45
IMPEACH OBAMA! We have waited too long already!
 
 
+5 # Radscal 2014-07-26 17:39
Yeah, 'cause Biden would be such an improvement.

As long as we continue to support this government-by-b ribery system, we'll have corrupted shills for the military/indust rial/corporate/ finance industries following their wishes.
 
 
+7 # aljoschu 2014-07-26 10:46
All lies, lies, lies and fairy tales - as usual from the Snow-White House and the Five Corners. Same story again and again, since 9/11 by Powell at the UN and Kerry and Obama on "Red Lines" in Syria. Who needs proofs in the US? Who would be willing to even wait for examination results? - It just needs urgency: allegations touted by all the major alpha-media and the mob goes beserk. Fling enough dirt and enough of it will stick!

Quote: “You’ve got a [XXXXX] government that has made a conscious decision to use its military force inside another sovereign nation to achieve its objectives. It’s the [n-th] time since 1939 or so that that’s been the case,” Dempsey said. “They clearly are on a path to assert themselves differently not just in Eastern Europe, but Europe in the main, and towards the [entire world].”

Just replace [XXXXX] by U.S.A. above and you are pretty close to the actual reality. The rest is fiction.

It is due time for Europe and the EU to distance themselves from this rogue and megalomaniac USA. We live in Europe and we want peace with ALL European neighbours including all other countries - not excluding any! - and especially not Russia, who have suffered most severely under German fascims and who have offered an open hand under Mikhail Gorbatchov. This has all been botched by Bush and Obama. – Enough of it. You played all your dirty tricks in the Middle East – keep your Cold War perverted phantasies to yourselves.
 
 
-6 # Philothustra 2014-07-26 13:47
I am no fan of the neocons, but I can't believe the dominant pro-Putin line of this thread! Apart from the fact that Putin is an old neo-Stalinist KGB warmonger himself, it is clear as a bell that the Rooskis have been shooting down Ukrainian planes for the last month. Your twisted notion that there is no Ukraine, no nation or people, and that it all belongs to Russia, is despicable... I suggest you read a good biography called The Red Prince if you want to learn about the centuries old struggle of Ukrainians for independence. Now we have Russian ghouls (in disguise as blue-uniformed "coal miners"--) cherrypicking the crash site, and all you can think about is the heartbreaking Russian suffering..........
(PS There are lots of pictures of Russian AA vehicles loaded up going in and then going back, please open your eyes!!!). Willful ignorance is just as evil as fascism, whether on behalf of Putin's neo-Stalinist Russia or Bush' neo-con Amerika...
 
 
+5 # Maturus 2014-07-26 15:19
"Apart from the fact.." that you're parroting the propaganda line from the US cookbook, where's the evidence of any of this? What do you actually mean by 'neo-Stalinist' ?
 
 
+5 # tedrey 2014-07-26 16:04
Do you think maybe that the shooting down of Ukrainian planes by east Ukrainians might have something to do with the fact that those were military planes from Kiev targeting east Ukrainian cities with bombs and rockets?

Maybe?
 
 
+3 # geraldom 2014-07-26 17:45
Quoting tedrey:
Do you think maybe that the shooting down of Ukrainian planes by east Ukrainians might have something to do with the fact that those were military planes from Kiev targeting east Ukrainian cities with bombs and rockets?

Maybe?


And now the illegal Kiev government is using White Phosphorous weapons against Donetsk and Lugansk.
 
 
+4 # Radscal 2014-07-26 17:47
I'm no fan of Putin, but it's obvious that the U.S. instigated a violent coup along the border of Russia that resulted in psychopathic neo-nazis terrorizing all "impure" Ukrainians, including burning alive scores (more like hundreds) in Odessa and Mariupol.

The most violent of the Maidan "protesters" were given control of the military, which has been shelling and aerial bombing civilians for months.

Given those facts, it is obvious Putin has been remarkably restrained. He seems to be the only national leader who is acting as a statesman to use diplomacy to avoid a great war.
 
 
+2 # geraldom 2014-07-27 00:55
Radscal, I actually agree with most of what you say which reflects the truth about what really happened in Ukraine. What I don't agree with you on is your approval of Putin's restraint and pacifism in light of what the U.S. and the EU are doing.

Ever since Mikhail Gorbachev was naive and stupid enough to actually believe that the U.S. and it's puppet proxy army in Europe, NATO, would abide by the agreement that G.H.W. Bush signed with him, that the U.S. and NATO would not encroach, both politically or militarily, into the new sovereign nations that came out of the breakup of the fmr Soviet Union, the U.S. has violated that agreement big-time during the Clinton, G.W. Bush, and Obama administrations , and Russia did nothing to halt this march which would've been their right to do.

Based on your comment, what you are suggesting is that Putin, or any future leader of Russia, should simply lay down and allow the U.S. to continue to steamroll over Russia on its continued march eastward deeper into Russian Federation territory in order to avoid a potential nuclear war that would end all life on this planet as we know it.

No sane human being wants a nuclear war, but I would ask what you think Russia should do to effectively stop this eastward march into Russian federal territory by the U.S., or should Russia simply hang it all up and completely surrender to the U.S. right now since it will eventually have to do so in the future if it's unwilling to defend its borders?
 
 
+5 # Anarchist 23 2014-07-26 16:41
Considering that the Malaysian airliner was re-routed Over Donetsk region by air traffic controllers in Ukraine and that it was ordered to drop in altitude and that both sides have Russian made missile launchers and that just 'coincidentally ' a Ukrainian fighter jet (the rebels have none) was following the airliner and that strangely it made a 180 turn back west just before the crash and that also that Boeing 777 have 'fly-by -wire' that can be over-ridden by the American military (Global Hawk) and that we instigated the coup-de etat against legally & democratically elected Yanukyvych with Neo-Nazis because Yanukyvych did not like the economic austerity deal the EU wanted him to make...can you say "false flag"? And now...a new cold war or even Hot war with Russia? did anybody think to query on the experiences of Napoleon Bonaparte or Adolph Hitler on this? Or the Europeans for that matter, who will bear the brunt o f the fighting...you know, like back in WWII? Yes, let's celebrate the 100 year anniversary of the slaughter that was WWI with another greater hecatomb. USSA!USSA!USSA!
 
 
+2 # Dion Giles 2014-07-27 02:29
The Project for the New American Century wolves are seeking to rekindle the Cold War which was so valuable as cover for decades of postwar US governments and brasshats

Some things should be borne in mind:

1. The German Nazis and their US successors [1,2] have a long history of false flag operations [3].

2. The Ukrainian coup regime is riddled with Nazis [5].

3. Ukrainian Nazis played a key role in Operation Barbarossa and the mass murders at Babi Yar on the outskirts of Kiev [6].

4. US military satellites are bound to have real-time footage of the launch of the murder rocket [7].

5. The captive nations in eastern Ukraine and the Crimea are within their rights to seek self-determinat ion and the Russians to assist them in accord with Article 1 of the UN Charter [8]. Westerners who dispute that right are furthering the criminal aims of the Axis and insulting the sacrifice of all the Allied soldiers who died to defeat them.

References to follow
 
 
+2 # Dion Giles 2014-07-27 02:30
References to previous

[1] http://www.thenation.com/blog/179057/seven-decades-nazi-collaboration-americas-dirty-little-ukraine-secret
[2] http://www.opednews.com/articles/America-s-Nazi-Allies-in-I-by-Eric-Zuesse-Congress-Democrats_Democrats-DNC_Fascism_Fascism-Cant-Happen-Here-140724-70.html
[3] e.g. Reichstag fire, “Polish invasion of Germany” claim [4] , Tonkin Gulf Incident, 9/11 murders, Iraq WMDs, Syria gas attack.
[4] http://www.germanvictims.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/1939_09_01-HitlerPoland_returning-fireAE.pdf
[5] http://consortiumnews.com/2014/03/30/ukraines-inconvenient-neo-nazis/
[6] http://www.globalresearch.ca/ukraines-neo-nazis-stepan-bandera-and-the-legacy-of-world-war-ii/5373773
[7] http://www.opednews.com/articles/What-Did-US-Spy-Satellites-by-Robert-Parry-Journalism_Putin_Russia_Satellites-140720-864.html
[8] http://www.ohchr.org/en/professionalinterest/pages/ccpr.aspx
 

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