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Volsky writes: "Paul Ryan spoke for 40 of the 90 minutes during Thursday night's vice presidential debate and managed to tell at least 24 myths during that time."

Paul Ryan and Vice President Joe Biden at last night's debate. (photo: ThinkProgress)
Paul Ryan and Vice President Joe Biden at last night's debate. (photo: ThinkProgress)

Paul Ryan Told 24 Myths in 40 Minutes

By Igor Volsky, ThinkProgress

12 October 12


aul Ryan spoke for 40 of the 90 minutes during Thursday night's vice presidential debate and managed to tell at least 24 myths during that time:

  1. "It took the president two weeks to acknowledge that [the Libya attack] was a terrorist attack." Obama used the word "terrorism" to describe the killing of Americans the very next day at the Rose Garden. "No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for," Obama said in a Rose Garden statement on September 12.

  2. "The administration was blocking us every step of the way. Only because we had strong bipartisan support for these tough [Iran] sanctions were we able to overrule their objections and put them in spite of the administration." Even the Israeli President has effusively praised President Obama's leadership on getting American and international sanctions on Iran, which have significantly slowed Iran's progress.

  3. "Medicare and Social Security are going bankrupt. These are indisputable facts." [T]he possibility of Medicare going bankrupt is - and historically has been - greatly exaggerated. In fact, if no changes are made, Medicare would still be able to meet 88 percent of its obligations in 2085. Social Security is fully funded for another two decades and could pay 75 percent of its benefits thereafter. There is also an easy way to ensure the program's long-term solvency without large changes or cuts to benefits.

  4. "The vice president was in charge of overseeing this. $90 billion in green pork to campaign contributors and special interest groups." Multiple reviews, including an independent review of all Department Of Energy loan programs by Herb Allison – finance chair for McCain for President 2008 – have found no "pork" in the stimulus' funding of green projects, concluding that the loans were not steered to friends or family, as Ryan claims.

  5. "Was it a good idea to spend taxpayer dollars on electric cars in Finland, or on windmills in China?" As PolitiFact has pointed out, the money for electric cars in Finland did not come from the stimulus. Rather, it originated with the Energy Department's Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing program, which predated the Obama administration. The claim about "windmills in China" is also inaccurate.

  6. "When they see us putting – when they see us putting daylight between ourselves and our allies in Israel, that gives them encouragement." The Israeli Deputy Prime Minister and Defense Minister, Ehud Barak, told CNN, "President Obama is doing … more than anything that I can remember in the past [in regard to our security]."

  7. "You see, if you reform these programs for my generation, people 54 and below, you can guarantee they don't change for people in or near retirement." Here is how the Romney/Ryan Medicare plan will affect current seniors: 1) by repealing Obamacare, the 16 million seniors receiving preventive benefits without deductibles or co-pays and are saving $3.9 billion on prescription drugs will see a cost increase, 2) "premium support" will increase premiums for existing beneficiaries as private insurers lure healthier seniors out of the traditional Medicare program, 3) Romney/Ryan would also lower Medicaid spending significantly beginning next year, shifting federal spending to states and beneficiaries, and increasing costs for the 9 million Medicare recipients who are dependent on Medicaid.

  8. "Obamacare takes $716 billion from Medicare to spend on Obamacare." Ryan is claiming that Obamacare siphons off $716 billion from Medicare, to the detriment of Medicare beneficiaries. In actuality, that money is saved primarily through reducing over-payments to insurance companies under Medicare Advantage, cutting waste fraud and abuse, and eliminating inefficiencies in the system. Ryan's budget plan keeps those same cuts, but directs them toward tax cuts for the rich and deficit reduction.

  9. "And then they put this new Obamacare board in charge of cutting Medicare each and every year in ways that will lead to denied care for current seniors." The Board, or IPAB is tasked with making binding recommendations to Congress for lowering health care spending, should Medicare costs exceed a target growth rate. Congress can accept the savings proposal or implement its own ideas through a super majority. The panel's plan will modify payments to providers but it cannot "include any recommendation to ration health care, raise revenues or Medicare beneficiary premiums…increase Medicare beneficiary cost-sharing (including deductibles, coinsurance, and co- payments), or otherwise restrict benefits or modify eligibility criteria" (Section 3403 of the ACA). Relying on health care experts rather than politicians to control health care costs has previously attracted bipartisan support and even Ryan himself proposed two IPAB-like structures in a 2009 health plan.

  10. "7.4 million seniors are projected to lose their current Medicare Advantage coverage they have. That's a $3,200 benefit cut." Enrollment is actually projected to increase by 11 percent in Medicare Advantage (MA) in 2013. Since the Affordable Care Act was enacted in 2010, Medicare Advantage premiums have decreased an average of 10 percent and enrollment in these plans has increased 28 percent.

  11. "This [Medicare premium support] plan that's bipartisan. It's a plan I put together with a prominent Democrat senator from Oregon." Wyden not only voted against Ryan's budget, he also called the idea that he supported it "nonsense."

  12. "Eight out of 10 businesses, they file their taxes as individuals, not as corporations." Far less than half of the people affected by the expiration of the upper income tax cuts get any of their income at all from a small businesses. And those people could very well be receiving speaking fees or book royalties, which qualify as "small business income" but don't have a direct impact on job creation. It's actually hard to find a small business who think that they will be hurt if the marginal tax rate on income earned above $250,000 per year is increased.

  13. "[Unemployment is rising] all around America." In August, the unemployment rate dropped from a year before in 325 of 372 metro areas surveyed by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

  14. "The average tax rate on businesses in the industrialized world is 25 percent, and the president wants the top effective tax rate on successful small businesses to go above 40 percent." The U.S. is raising historically low amounts of revenue from the corporate income tax, and it already has the second lowest effective corporate tax rate in the world. U.S. corporations are taxed less than their foreign rivals, and the U.S. effective corporate tax rate is low compared to other developed economies.

  15. "He'll keep saying this $5 trillion plan, I suppose. It's been discredited by six other studies." The studies Ryan cites actually further prove that Romney/Ryan would, in fact, have to raise taxes on the middle class if he were to keep his promise not to lose revenue with his tax rate reduction.

  16. "You can – you can cut tax rates by 20 percent and still preserve these important preferences for middle-class taxpayer. It is mathematically possible. It's been done before. It's precisely what we're proposing." If Romney/Ryan hope to provide tax relief to the middle class, then their $5 trillion tax cut would add to the deficit. There are not enough deductions in the tax code that primarily benefit rich people to make his math work. As the Tax Policy Center concluded, Romney's plan can't both exempt middle class families from tax cuts and remain revenue neutral. "He's promised all these things and he can't do them all. In order for him to cover the cost of his tax cut without adding to the deficit, he'd have to find a way to raise taxes on middle income people or people making less than $200,000 a year," the Center found.

  17. "So they proposed a $478 billion cut to defense to begin with. Now we have another $500 billion cut to defense that's lurking on the horizon. They insisted upon that cut being involved in the debt negotiations, and so we have a $1 trillion cut." Ryan has frequently gotten in hot water for criticizing President Obama for the very same defense cuts that he voted for in 2011.

  18. "If these cuts go through, our Navy will be the smallest – the smallest it has been since before World War I." PolitiFact rated this claim as "Pants on Fire," noting that "a wide range of experts told us it's wrong to assume that a decline in the number of ships or aircraft automatically means a weaker military."

  19. "Look at what they're doing through Obamacare with respect to assaulting the religious liberties of this country. They're infringing upon our first freedom, the freedom of religion, by infringing on Catholic charities, Catholic churches, Catholic hospitals." Religious institutions haven't been forced to "violate their conscience" by paying for contraception. Houses of worship and other religious nonprofits that primarily employ and serve people of the same faith will be exempt from offering birth control.

  20. "If you like your health care plan, you can keep it. Try telling that to the 20 million people who are projected to lose their health insurance if Obamacare goes through or the 7-point million – 7.4 million seniors who are going to lose it." The Affordable Care Act would actually expand health care coverage to 30 million Americans and all seniors will keep their guranteed Medicare benefits, despite Ryan's fear mongering. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that very few people will have to enroll in new coverage.

  21. "We should not have called Bashar Assad a reformer when he was turning his Russian-provided guns on his own people." In March 2011, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton noted that "many of the members of Congress of both parties who have gone to Syria in recent months have said they believe he's a reformer." However, she did not endorse their view.

  22. "When Barack Obama was elected, they had enough fissile material - nuclear material to make one bomb. Now they have enough for five." This is misleading and unproven. Iran now has enough fissile material, but has not yet enriched to the necessary level for a weapon. The Institute for Science and International Security says "it would take Iran more than two months to produce that amount if it started with 20%-grade uranium, and ‘several months' to make enough for a bomb using low-enriched uranium. That would give the world community enough time to detect the operation and organize a response, ISIS noted in June."

  23. "[Iran is] racing toward a nuclear weapon." Israeli and American intelligence officials aren't so sure.

  24. "We don't want to do is give our allies reason to trust us less [by announcing a withdrawal timeline for Afghanistan]." It's unclear how our allies would trust us less since they too agreed to the timeline. As Biden pointed outed, "That's a bizarre statement... Forty-nine of our allies - hear me - 49 of our allies signed on to this position." your social media marketing partner


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+180 # Henry 2012-10-12 11:03
Too bad Igor Volsky called them "myths." What they were is LIES.
+93 # Billy Bob 2012-10-12 11:25
Thank you for telling the truth. I don't understand why it's so the press to call a lie "a lie" when it comes from a right-winger.
+92 # corallady 2012-10-12 11:31
Quoting Henry:
Too bad Igor Volsky called them "myths." What they were is LIES.
I agree with Henry. Let's call things by their correct names because a large part of what goes on in political campaigns is the distortion of language into what Orwell called "Doublespeak" or "Newspeak." This leads to a weakening of words and often a deceptive message. "Collateral damage," for instance is really dead people. "Myth" waters down and prettifies what Paul Ryan was up to last night. If we know what things really are, we are better able to see them through the lens of reality rather than through the fog of deception. Why shy away from the word "lies" if that is in fact what things are? Ryan lied--and lied--and lied last night, just as Mitt Romney lies every day on the campaign trail. They hide behind words in order to hide their true intentions; our intrepid independent journalists need to call things by their right names. A lie is a lie is a lie, to paraphrase Gertrude Stein.
+42 # AMLLLLL 2012-10-12 12:23
To tell it is the lie; for it to be believed is the myth.
+27 # readerz 2012-10-12 13:38
This is called "nominalism," which is a denial of the reality of a word, as though words were devoid of meaning. "Nominalism" originally was used to deny parts of religion, but it was also applied to other areas of life such as politics; basically, it wouldn't matter what a person promised, they wouldn't have to deliver.

If it is believed, the lie transfers to the believer; this is either delusion or an accessory to the lie.

People have no idea just how much nominalism they have come to accept in modern life: we live in a "democracy," but we do not have equal representation in the Senate, Electoral College, and no equal access to representation. Everything is "regulated" by government, but not the chemicals in fracking, and employers may "fire at will." The list goes on and on and on... so much so that people do not notice just a few more grand fibs.
+96 # PhilO 2012-10-12 11:59
I agree, they were LIES!!!

I am a likely voter (if you can call "100% sure absolutely positively definitely going to vote" likely!), and mostly concerned with Romney and Ryan's incessant INTENTIONAL lying and deceit.

They are men WITHOUT PRINCIPLES, but WITH OBJECTIVES. They will say and do ANYTHING to get elected, and I shutter imagining what they would do if elected.
-138 # jtatu 2012-10-12 12:48
What about Biden's lies.
1. The Embassy in Libya didn't ask for additional security.
2. No religious institution is required to refer to, pay for or be an instrument for the provision of contraceptives.
This Administration has consistently lied to the public about raising taxes and deliberately deferred the inplementation of "tax" increases on the middle class and on home sales until after the election.
+90 # opinionaire 2012-10-12 12:55
Quoting jtatu:
What about Biden's lies.
1. The Embassy in Libya didn't ask for additional security.
2. No religious institution is required to refer to, pay for or be an instrument for the provision of contraceptives.
This Administration has consistently lied to the public about raising taxes and deliberately deferred the inplementation of "tax" increases on the middle class and on home sales until after the election.

The Embassy in Libya did not ask the White House; that is factual. The Republican Congress reduced funding for Embassy security; that is also factual.
Religious institutions are not required to pay for contraceptives, but insurance companies are, even when contracted by a religious institution.

Try to get the facts from real sources, not from right wing talking points and echo chambers.
-70 # jtatu 2012-10-12 15:14
The Embassy asked the State Department, part of the Executive branch.
The reduced funding had nothing to do with the specific decision to deny the request; resources were available and the request could have been granted.
Who do you think will pay the premium so the "insurance companies" will pay for the contraceptives? This last point was attempted fraud by the Administration, but I see it worked with some people.
+37 # Reductio Ad Absurdum 2012-10-12 17:54
Cutting $300 million from embassy security and then accusing the Obama Admin is HYPERBOLIC HYPOCRISY. The Bush admin had 12 embassy attacks — where was Paul Ryan's criticism then? 12 attacks in 8 years, THEN Ryan cuts the security budget? Get it?

To deny the coverage the rest of Americans get to those people who happen to work for a "religious" employer is unfair to the employee. This is not a theocracy. The Roman Catholic Church is NOT MY FREAKIN" GOVERNMENT! My taxes pay for the drone-induced deaths of innocent children in Arabia — I have no say about that, so join the club — it's called a democracy.
0 # AMLLLLL 2012-10-14 12:16
I heard that it was the embassy in TRIPOLI who had requested extra security.
+9 # David Starr 2012-10-13 12:25
@jtatu: I get the feeling your "truths" are more untruthful. Other posters have effectively rebutted you.
+6 # Duster 2012-10-14 03:09
As regards "religious institutions" being "required" to pay for or provide conraceptive, many people of other _no_ faith work at "relgious" institutions such as Mercy or Methodist hospitals. The health coverage provided to their employees, until the recent court decision, reflected the "conscience" of the institutions rather than that of the individual who requires health care or contraceptives, or even an emergency abortion to save a mother's life. That fact means that the "institution" intrudes ITS conscience into the indivuidual, private lives of healthcare system participants, who have a job and pay taxes and are not using public money to obtain their health care.

As regards, the US embassy in Libya, first Republicans cut DoS security funding. Second, the DoS is a big bureaucracy and very little of the day to day operation ever reaches the higher-ups. A request for additional security is a routine request and not routed to say the SecState. The DoS instead has to try and prioritize its funds wisely, so quite often those resources are directed to prtect the butts of members of congress or the senate off on junkets billed to their constituents as fact-finding. Statistically, most moc are Reps, so statistically they used the funds that should have gone to Benghazi consulate security.
+5 # Michael Lee Bugg 2012-10-14 08:26
Duster, outstanding point about Congressmen on "fact finding" vacation trips sucking up funds that could be used for embassy security! Add to this the cost of Bush's tax cuts along with costly, mismanaged, unending wars and insatiable and wasteful defense contractors depleting funds for embassy security and a wide range of programs. But then, this is what Neoconservative s, who run the Republican Party since Reagan, have wanted all along. Huge deficits that they can claim are killing our country and thus be used to justify and force massive cuts in regulatory enforcement and social programs while even more money is thrown at defense contractors!!
+39 # Billy Bob 2012-10-12 14:34
Notice that when you disagreed with Vice-President Biden you accused him of lying.

When opinionaire proved YOU were the one saying things that weren't true, opinionaire DIDN'T call you a liar. He only suggested you were repeating right-wing talking points.

Apparently, YOUR SOURCES are the ones lying to you. Let me guess - you don't mind either, do you?
+7 # soularddave 2012-10-12 18:14
And your references to rebut???
+5 # David Starr 2012-10-13 12:23
@jtatu: You sound like a Lyin' Ryan clone. Do you both follow the same script? Yeah, nothing like fiction-checkin g, as opposed to fact-checking.
-76 # jtatu 2012-10-12 13:04
When a wise man has a controversy with a foolish man . . . the foolish man either rages or laughs and there is no rest. Proverbs 29:9
+67 # readerz 2012-10-12 13:45
"The wicked have drawn out the sword: they have bent their bow. To cast down the poor and needy: to kill the upright of heart." Psalm 37

Based on my religion, there is no way that I could vote for any Republican.
+36 # dkonstruction 2012-10-12 13:47
Quoting jtatu:
When a wise man has a controversy with a foolish man . . . the foolish man either rages or laughs and there is no rest. Proverbs 29:9

You better cut the pizza in four pieces because I'm not hungry enough to eat six.

Yogi Berra
+19 # Billy Bob 2012-10-12 14:35
Good quote. We would have also accepted, "Watch out where the huskies go and don't you eat that yellow snow!"

-Frank Zappa
+24 # Billy Bob 2012-10-12 14:30
5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7 Are they not the ones who are blaspheming the noble name of him to whom you belong?

-James 2:5-7
+23 # Billy Bob 2012-10-12 14:31
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

James 2:14-19
+9 # Ray Kondrasuk 2012-10-12 21:44
Nicely stated, Billy Bob.

I vaguely recall reading in Malcolm Clark's 2003 "Islam for Dummies" that upon dying, every believer must display his tally of good deeds to Allah before being admitted to Heaven.

But first he must settle accounts with those whom he has offended; each has the right to remove from the coffer a token commensurate to the magnitude of the offense committed back during life.

The supplicant must hope his good deeds outnumber his transgressions. I'm not Muslim, but I rather appreciate the concept.
+24 # Joe Bob 2012-10-12 15:32
Bible Banging doesn't belong in US Politics
+12 # 2012-10-12 22:03
Quoting Joe Bob:
Bible Banging doesn't belong in US Politics

Neither does the bible..
+1 # Michael Lee Bugg 2012-10-15 17:30
Joe Bob, I think they are just fighting fire with fire! I love to throw Biblical verses back at right-wingers just to listen to their rationalization s! Jesus said, "A rich man has no more chance of entering the Kingdom of Heaven than a camel has of going through the eye of a needle"! Amen!
+26 # MEBrowning 2012-10-12 15:34
And what does the wise man do? He votes against the foolish man, of course.

Obama-Biden 2012
+10 # reiverpacific 2012-10-12 17:22
Quoting jtatu:
When a wise man has a controversy with a foolish man . . . the foolish man either rages or laughs and there is no rest. Proverbs 29:9

"O' wad some power the giftie gei us, to oorsel's as others see us".
Robert Burns. -Take a look in the mirror.
+14 # David Starr 2012-10-13 12:29
@jtatu: "Anti-intellect ualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nutured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" --Isaac Asimov

GOP = anti-intellectu alism
+2 # jpbernbach 2012-10-14 10:34
Quoting Henry:
Too bad Igor Volsky called them "myths." What they were is LIES.

Hear, hear. "A statement that is calculated to deceive or to confuse is a lie. If the liar has gone to the trouble of wording his misleading assertions in order to ensure that his actual words aren’t technically, literally, in the strictest possible sense, contrary to fact, then he is not less of a liar but more of one."

That's from the introduction of a book about conservative lies, which I've just had published. If you agree with that sentiment, I think you'll enjoy the book - please consider checking it out:
-7 # jtatu 2012-10-14 16:18
Most of this is tweaking what was said into something that wasn't said and applying it to facts that aren't really facts. Here is one to consider.
Romney said, "Obamacare will create an unelected board, an appointed board, who are going to decide what kind of [medical] treatment you ought to have."
Obama replied, "No, it isn't."
There it is, plain as day. Your president lying to you on national TV.
+114 # Barbara K 2012-10-12 11:17
Yes, a lie by any other name is still a lie. Lyin Ryan is as bad as Romneyhood; both pathological liars. Why anyone with a brain would vote for this bunch is a mystery, unless, of course, they are brainless themselves? Stupid is as stupid does, after all. With the plans they have for women, no woman in her right mind should be voting for Romneyhood. I'm surprised that they have the nerve to show their lying faces in public, much less think we would want the likes of them running OUR country. They are dishonest to the core.
+42 # readerz 2012-10-12 13:47
And, although I know there was a terrible time limit, I wonder why there was only ONE question about women, and that about the "personal" feelings of the candidates on abortion. Don't women exist for any other reason? Don't we work? Don't we have other health issues that are not taken care of?

I am not only sick of the lies of the Republicans, but I am sick of the lies of the major media.
+71 # Billy Bob 2012-10-12 11:22
Biden obviously won the debate because Yahoo just proclaimed in its most recent headline that:

"Who won the vice presidential debate? Doesn’t matter: The question pollsters should have asked was: Is Obama still bleeding?"

It certainly "mattered" when yahoo thought romney beat the President.

The truth certainly matters, even though the far right doesn't want it to - as evidenced by ayn ryan's lack of respect for it last night.
+29 # Billy Bob 2012-10-12 14:37
Now yahoo is wondering:

"Was Joe Biden too mean for ‘Iowa nice’ voters? 'I thought Joe did a great job, but I wish that he didn’t interrupt so much.' ”

I LOVE how yahoo suddenly thinks interrupting is in bad form, especially when that's all Twit did through his entire performance.
+90 # Virginia 2012-10-12 12:05
Joe Biden Gets It. I wrote about that in October 2011 on with a video of a great speech he did... He really says what he means. He's nailed the cause of this economic depression exactly what it is, "God-Awful Ponzi schemes". He gets a lot of the real truths from his son Beau, who is one of the most astute ganster fighting Attorneys General in the country.

Out of all 4 candidates, Joe is the only true champion of the middle class. He's never sold out his core values climbing up th political ladder.

You could tell Ryan had been programmed. But he had respect for Mr. Biden because Joe's candid shots were causing Ryan, more than once, to pause.

The jobless economy is fixable. President Obama has given it (the banks) a chance to stabilize. But now, it's time to take the gloves off - and since Joe has focus on the core issues - let him lead the recovery charge.

We can't continue on the same path. We need a Democrat Congress ... And a lot of work to be processed in the next 4 years...includi ng repeals. Thank God for Joe Biden.
-34 # dkonstruction 2012-10-12 12:42
Virginia, with all due respect, Obama did not give the banks "a chance to stabilize." The "fix" that everyone from Bush, Paulson, Geithner, Summers, congress (Dodd/Frank) and Obama has done nothing to solve the "too big to fail problem." In fact,the big banks are now even bigger and more insolvant than ever). Dodd/Frank was a democrat proposal so let's stop deluding ourselves that they are "on our side." They are now, and have always also been the party of capital. Capital has never been a monolith and has different factions with different interests -- so, when Obama first ran he was the wall street's guy but now for some reason(s) feel 'betrayed' and so are going heavily for Romney whereas the industrial/manu facturing seems like they are still more in Obama's camp than Romney's in part fighting the dominance of finance capital in the system as a whole).

I agree that Biden is sincere and has never forgotten his blue collar roots but he is wrong that the economic crisis was simply the result of a ponzi scheme and not a much more fundamental problem of the system's overall profitability and ability to maintain the kind of growth rates that capitalism needs to continue to expand (most say it needs at least 3%).

Finally, given that nearly 50% of the country is now either in poverty or near poverty who is this middle class and why are the dems afraid to talk about the working class and the poor?
+24 # Virginia 2012-10-12 13:24
All anyone has to do is look at the financial disclosure statements on for Congress and look at the Federal Court Judges' financial disclosure (link is on right top sidebar of blog)... These guys would be financially ruined if/when Wall Street goes down.

It's hard to take down your Dealer when he supplies you with the drug you

I am in total agreement with you, however, we can't just blame Obama because Congress has failed to pass legislation. With that said Obama has people and advisers in place like Holder and Goldman Sachs who are protecting the banks.

This election would not even be close if Obama and Congress had not allowed the Federal Reserve to feed the banks with taxpayer dollars and had made the arrests of the kingpin crooks. AMERICA'S MOST WANTED should consist of Wall Street Demi-Gods like Dimon, Blankfein, Pandit, Lewis, Thain, Ackermann, Fuld, Stumpf, Dallas... Just to name a few.

Republicans and Democrats are outraged - and the real issue keeps getting ignored... It should be the core of the debates. At least Biden uttered the "F" word even if he did follow "foreclosures" by describing people who "continued to pay their mortgages" - what about all of the people who the banks won't allow to make payments and keep them wrapped up in modification hell?! There are 10 times as many waiting while the administration "foams the runway" for the banks.
+8 # dkonstruction 2012-10-12 14:02
I agree completely virginia....sad , though that so many (at least based on the numbers of thumbs down i got for my initial response to you) have no critique of the dems at all (do they really believe the dems represent the interests of the 99%?). I agree, that it is wrong to simply blame Obama for all of this (as some moronic self-described "progressives" or "leftists" do) but we can't give the dems a pass either (as it seems far too many commenters on this board routinely seem to do). thanks for your thoughtful response.
+17 # Billy Bob 2012-10-12 14:43
Maybe it's that many are very critical of the Democrats but are questioning your motives for focusing so much of your attention attacking them a few weeks before an election.

Rather than accepting your derision about how "moronic" we are for not agreeing with you, some of us are thinking about our children. Whether you like it or not, punishing the Democratic Party again (like in 2010, 2000, 1980, and 1968) will only punish US.

If you want to replace the Democratic Party with something else, try to get some traction for 2016. Right now, you won't be able to do that. All you will do is weaken any opposition the left is still able to put up.

Is that your real motive?

At this point, I gotta ask you what your end game is. Mine is to save this country WITHOUT destroying it first. What's yours?
+8 # Billy Bob 2012-10-12 14:43
In other words, "dkonstruction" , what is it you're attempting to DE-CONSTRUCT?
+11 # Virginia 2012-10-12 15:26
We are the 99% and 47% of us are tired of being duped into believing there is a radical difference. There IS a difference at the ground level - it's just when they get into political office they get blind sided by the "spoils" - which need to be outlawed. No insider trading, not even an appearance of impropriety... Just like the President, your stock portfolio goes into the freezer until your term is up.

It's time for term limits. Investing in candidates is like a casino with the odds of being re-elected - just serve a limited term and return to the public sector.

The ground level DEMS are for the 99%. They have compassion and sense of consequence and understand what is happening to middle class America. Republicans are a mixture of old school "states rights", segregation and wannabe greed. The Centrist, in the middle, leans toward the greed. And politicians keep thinking a war will unite us. Since the Viet-nam debacle we've grown smarter than that.

One major point Biden made and could have elaborated on was when they took over in 2009, the World hated Americans.

It takes more than 4 years to overcome the hate. Many Hawaiians rightfully still hold a grudge because of the way America "took" over and imprisoned their Queen in 1895.

This administration has been able to calm down a lot of the worldwide condemnation.
+4 # Regina 2012-10-13 12:33
Yes. Virginia, to most of your comments. But watch out for the term limits thing -- do we want Congress to consist of revolving naifs/naives, serially and perpetually overwhelmed by the "advice" of lobbyists?
+3 # Billy Bob 2012-10-13 13:16
You're right. Term limits means whichever party has enough money to keep campaigning 365 days a year will be the one in power. Anybody who represents the left would be totally unable to compete against the right when we don't even have the occassional advantage of incumbency.
0 # Regina 2012-10-13 23:44
No, they're not giving Obama et al a pass -- they're just warning us that the alternative would be a helluva lot worse, maybe impossible to recover from by 2016.
+25 # readerz 2012-10-12 13:52
Wall Street felt "betrayed" because the bailout was a loan, paid back with interest. They didn't like that. They also hate any form of regulation, even though the collapse was caused by the lack of regulation.

The biggest ponzi scheme is the Republican Party: if you think that there is any integrity at all left in America, do not vote for them.
+27 # chuckw38 2012-10-12 12:23
Hmmm, Yoda say,"Ryan not learn lessons from Romney-poo!!! Ryan
must return to pit of Hell for further lessons in effective lying!!!"
+8 # Barbara K 2012-10-12 12:53
+9 # swissms 2012-10-12 12:30
I appreciate the fact check review of Ryan's lies. This report would be even more powerful if juxtaposed against the results of the fact-checking on Biden as well.
+8 # James Smith 2012-10-12 13:34
Go to They do exactly what you are proposing/
+31 # dick 2012-10-12 12:43
"Wah. Mommy, Paulie told a fib." Ryan wants to thin the herd. He wants 60,000,000 of us GONE. This is a war for SURVIVAL, not a playground squabble. I know Barry & Joe HAVE TO play nice in debates, but it is way past time to CLOBBER these vicious punks with blood letting ads. Swift boat them back offshore.
"Romney's only foreign policy experience is hiding taxable unearned income on the exotic islands where he plans to have a 2nd W.House."
+34 # wrodwell 2012-10-12 13:00
Myths????? Lies???????? How about "inaccurate assertions" or "evidence-chall enged" statements? Better yet, a BS Meter should be installed at every debate, programmed to sound an alarm when it detects inaccurate or false statements. On a large screen, the facts would appear much as they are listed in the above article. Each candidate would then be required to explain themselves. (I would anticipate a plethora of interruptions.) It might take more time to play the game but at least the players won't be able to game the system as easily as they do now. Why allow candidates to get away with blatantly suspect remarks when it can be instantly demonstrated whether or not their assertions are true?. Truth in Politics: what a novel concept!!
+8 # James Smith 2012-10-12 13:32
Are you insane? Fact check display during the debates? Do you want to destroy politics as she is played?

You might as well ask every candidate to were a lie detector every time he speaks.
+14 # wipster 2012-10-12 13:36
Quoting wrodwell:
Myths????? Lies???????? How about "inaccurate assertions" or "evidence-challenged" statements? Better yet, a BS Meter should be installed at every debate, programmed to sound an alarm when it detects inaccurate or false statements. On a large screen, the facts would appear much as they are listed in the above article. Each candidate would then be required to explain themselves.

I love it! Give CNN something else to put on their coverage. While it would add a "game show" aspect to the debates, if the BS calling was quick and accurate enough, it would be a game changer. Or we could also go the way of the NFL and give each debater a certain amount of "challenges," the accuracy of which would then be determined by fact checkers. If a candidate's claim was in fact malarkey, they would lose a challenge and get a mark against them... if it was truthful, the challenger would lose their challenge and get a mark.

Let's put de bait in debate!
+15 # readerz 2012-10-12 13:55
It's often difficult to keep up, but yes, there should be a screen next to them with a meter on how bad the lie is. Also the moderator needs the same kind of monitoring. I noticed that she asked a few questions about Libya, but only one about women, and that was only about abortion and personal opinion, nothing calling for facts about the plight of women in America.
+4 # BeaDeeBunker 2012-10-12 23:16
A better 'technical' solution would be to have a ten second delay in broadcasting these 'live' debates. The way computers work these days, ten seconds is enough time to search all congressional records going back to the founding of the Union.

Have you every wondered and marveled that a typical search engine can find millions and millions of search results in 3.5 seconds and proudly display this fact on the page?

That ten second delay will be plenty of time correct 'false statements' and display on the bottom of the screen.
+33 # Robert B 2012-10-12 13:09
I thought Ryan sounded like a kid, not a Vice President. He stumbled around with the same talking points he had practiced, like a student giving a book report he wasn't really prepared for. Biden didn't speak all that eloquently, either, but at least he wasn't lying and didn't sound like he was 16. There was only one Vice President in the room.
+30 # James Smith 2012-10-12 13:10
Let's give Ryan some credit for consistency. He has lied each and every time he's spoken publicly. That means we can always count on him. Everyone knows that, if he says it, it is probably a lie. How many politicians can we trust that completely? Most will tell the truth is it will serve their purpose. (Will this help me get (re)elected?)

Ryan will lie even if the truth would serve him better. I like dependability.
+15 # readerz 2012-10-12 13:58
I think you need to review the meaning of trust. It isn't the expectation of something, but is tied to loyalty and hope. I have no hope if Romney and Ryan are elected, and it looks like too many Americans are swayed by Fox, Rush, Beck, Coulter, etc. There aren't enough people with the wit and investigation skills of Rachel Maddow to go around.
-55 # rmccormack 2012-10-12 13:31
In the 40 minutes during which Rayan was speaking, Biden interrupted Ryan 82 times, an average of once every 30 seconds. That fact, together with Biden's sophomoric mugging, grinning, grunting and frowning, etc., has clearly shown the American public who is the better debater and the better candidate for V.P> and it wasn't Joe Biden!
+27 # Billy Bob 2012-10-12 14:45
REALLY? Where were your complaints about Twit during the last debate? Oh yeah, that's right. You didn't make any.

Google the definition of "DOUBLE-STANDAR D" and get back to us.
+12 # soularddave 2012-10-12 19:16
What those two were doing was hardball. In politics at this level, there's little time or energy to play around or put up with lies. Joe's interjections were timely, on point, and RATIONAL.

I wish all politicans were similarly versed and had the interests of his constituents in their hearts. Immediately, Elizabeth Warren comes to mind.
+4 # Regina 2012-10-13 12:40
Republicans are well-trained in mike-hogging -- once they're on they rattle on and on and on and the poor moderator is just run over (Raddatz was much better than poor Lehrer). Biden was unfazed by Ryan's on-and-on and cut in, effectively demolishing Ryan's robo-recitals of Republican slogans.
+37 # DIAMONDMARGE 2012-10-12 13:47
Ryan was so---programmed --he looked like "a deer in the headlights." Both he and Romney seem to be made up of used alien metal parts; there is no evidence of a beating heart or a compassionate soul
+17 # hbheinze 2012-10-12 14:05
"Used alien metal parts"----love it!!!!!!!!!!!!
+9 # BeaDeeBunker 2012-10-12 23:38
Paul Ryan is known as a 'wonk.'
It was very telling that his pause, when asked about his religious beliefs and abortion, went on for about 3 seconds. He spent that time trying to remember what he had said in the past, what he had been told to say, and what he really believed. He had to rehearse his reply. He did not want to reveal anything that would clearly remove his mask of deception and obfuscation. The pause was too long. His cover was exposed. He did manage to state that he believed life began at conception. It was lucky that the sonogram of his daughter reminded him of a bean; it could have as easily resulted in his daughter's nickname being 'Little Zit.'

Biden's response was the essence of American values. He basically, and correctly stated, as clearly as possible, that his beliefs should never be imposed on anyone else, especially by someone who has the power to influence the making of laws of the land.
+6 # Corvette-Bob 2012-10-12 13:56
It does matter if what you say is true or not. It is how you say it and make yourself look like an authority while saying it. 90% of the citizens have virtually no knowledge of what is going on. They think of it as a reality tv show and how the people look like. So if you wish to win an election, your looks and delivery is what is important. The person does not even have to know what they are talking about, in fact it is beneficial that they do not know anything. I believe we should groom the candidate from Hollywood not Washington.
Does anyone know if Ben Affleck is a liberal?
+12 # 2012-10-12 14:34
These "Myths" are "lies". Please tell me the justification of an other one which I call myth, that the press is
leaning LEFT. So, in other words when a media is trying to report a fact, and it does not jive with the ideology of its owners, it is "Left".
Check who controlls or owns them. (With very few exceptions) When the press criticized Clinton, were they communists or fascists?
We do not have a Democracy by and for the people anymore. A handful of very powerful people have learned from George Creel and Dr Goebbells
how to control the public at large. They have succeeded because the "Myths", I call lies, have become "Truth" Unless the public at large takes the effort
and "follows the money" to learn the real facts, we will be doomed. Take the trouble and time to read the "FOCUS - Paul Ryan told 24 Myths in 40 Minutes".
Also, at least take the time to listen to "opposite views" as well. Whether one likes it or not, having FOX as the only source, you will become part of your environment.
To quote Dr Goebbels: Tell a lie often enough and it will become the truth. (paraphrased). This is the real difference between believing something versus knowing it.
Take the time to be informed even if it means you have to skip a "Sports Event". It will become more interesting and riveting than a good crime novel.
+18 # BicParker 2012-10-12 14:43
+9 # MindDoc 2012-10-12 16:12
Math time again (obviously a weakness for Ryan/Romney) -
24 "myths" (or well-tailored flat-out lies) in 40 minutes.
That comes out to .6 lies per minute from Ryan as compared with just over .7 lies per minute for Romney. (Probably his "youthful inexperience" at being a con man.) Match made in heaven for Rove/Koch et al, but a duo of devils for those without money or jobs to import offshore. Like people who need to eat, tend to health, families, children, jobs, our society, our hopes...

While I see young people trumpeting how Biden cleaned Ryan's clock (in terms of facts and confronting the constant lies) - still there are some who think - for some reason - that Ryan presented better. (Why? Hatred for Obama... Willingness to suspend reality and accept the T-Rove-Koch propaganda...)

It's not over. Score is (by most counts) 1 big 'win' for the Romney handlers, one win for the factual world of Biden. But still the wide pro-Obama gap is gone, and some tarnish and questions remain. We'll see how the new (unchained?) Obama does debate #2, if in fact debates matter (which does seem to be the case!).

Most voters already made up their minds, and some voted even before the debates. The rules keep changing - on unlimited corruption (blood money endorsed by SCOTUS), on early election voting, notions of fairness, truthfulness, and the role played by big money, big media, and big spinning of reality within the Romney/Ryan alternative world.
+15 # Mannstein 2012-10-12 16:57
I like the statement Ryan made about the Iranians being able to make the gas centrifuges which enrich uranium run faster. Goes to show how ignorant this jerk really is. Running high speed centrifuges past their critical speed will shatter them. That's right they'll self destruct. Take from an ex gas centrifuge design engineer.
+5 # CarolynScarr 2012-10-12 19:32
Lie entirely omitted from your list -- the claim that Iran tried to assassinate the Saudi ambassador.
US intelligence experts know that if Iran wanted to assassinate someone they wouldn't waste their time trying to hire some half-assed used car dealer to get them a Mexican drug cartel killer to do the job. The story is entirely beyond belief, which is why it has lain fallow until it could be used for political purposes.
+10 # Kootenay Coyote 2012-10-12 20:29
Wrong word. A myth has ALWAYS been a story that embodies a truth, whether the story is factual or not. Lie is still a perfectly good work, & we need to use it whenever lies are being told.
+6 # BeaDeeBunker 2012-10-12 23:58
MYTH: From the dictionary-
1. a traditional story of unknown authorship, serving usually to explain some phenomenon of nature, the origin of man, or the customs, institutions, etc. of a people: cf. legend.
2. such stories collectively; mythology.
3. any fictitious story.
4. any imaginary person or thing.

Obviously, the use of the word 'myth' does not effectively portray what Ryan presented as facts. Maybe #3 & #4 conveys some sense of what went on.

The word 'lie' conveys a much more precise description of what Ryan was doing. Sorry Mr. Volsky, a poor choice of words!
+4 # Scribe76 2012-10-13 07:01
At such a critical time in our nation's history and the world it seems poor tactics to change leadership mid-stream now. Mittens made a poor showing in his visit to the Mid-East last summer. There is not the strength there to be Commander-In-Ch ief! Ryan, who reminds me of an air head fresh out of a college fraternity, is too cerebral and I sense very little substance or depth. I think O has grown in office, he knows the ropes. Both the GOP candidates seem lackluster.Give n the times, how can one man stem the tides that are upon us, and they are going out, not in. Again, to switch boats now and courses would be wrong. I believe the rest of the world already 'knows' how to hit our weak spots because of this potential GOP leadership.
I give credit to Mittens as a business man. If our times were like they were under Eisenhauer we'd have a good solid guy to keep the status quo of prosperity moving, but we don't have those times. Even FDR made mistakes despite his greatness.
We can't switch mid-stream now, folks. Give O another 4 years. We need stability in leadership now.Very hard times ahead for us and the world. O has the knowledge and White House experience. Face it. All leaders love the power, and most are self-serving. Sure wish we had an FDR though.
-9 # Scribe76 2012-10-13 07:05

Personally, I believe no man should be elected to the presidency who has not served in a war, who has not seen guts and brains spilled, or had a comrade kill himself from pain. Nor, should he/she be under age 55. Too many 'little boys in grown up clothing.' .AMEN!
+5 # David Starr 2012-10-13 12:36
@Scribe76: Sounds like a military dictatorship ruled by old men. That's been tried already...with not-so-pretty results.
+3 # Billy Bob 2012-10-13 21:34
So, in order to be a grown up, one must murder others for the oil industry?
+6 # pernsey 2012-10-13 08:05
Lyin Ryan was tryin, but Joe sent him home cryin!

Vote Dem across the board on election day!
+5 # David Starr 2012-10-13 12:32
Quoting Lyin' Ryan: "Medicare and Social Security are going bankrupt. These are indisputable facts." The indisputable fact is that if Ryan and the GOP get thier way, Medicare and Social Security will be more than bankrupt. "R.I.P"
+4 # David Starr 2012-10-13 12:34
Kudos to Igor Volsky for a detailed, effective refuting of another Akin.
+4 # Grace 2012-10-13 13:51
It is difficult to see hope for a culture that is beholden to slick images replacing each other daily, or by the minute. Substance and truths are ignored or misrepresented by the media, in favor of style-appearanc e. All As for style, 0 for substance.
The first time this struck me was in the Gore-Bush debates. The media panned then VEEP Gore for being "boring." How about Intelligent, Thoughtful, Measured--the qualities we actually need in the leader of a powerful country. When you push aside the intellect in favor of style, as in the 1st debate between Romney & President Obama, no one can expect a bright tomorrow--excep t the mega wealthy.

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