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Gertz reports: "Mike Vanderboegh recently predicted that if the Supreme Court declared the health care reform bill to be constitutional, it would lead to violent insurrection against 'government tyranny.'"

The justices of the US Supreme Court, 10/08/11. (photo: Pablo Martinez Monsivais/AP)
The justices of the US Supreme Court, 10/08/11. (photo: Pablo Martinez Monsivais/AP)

An Armed Insurrection Over Health Care Decision?

By Matt Gertz, Media Matters for America

01 July 12


ike Vanderboegh, the ex-militia blogger who calls himself one of the "midwives" of the Operation Fast and Furious scandal, recently predicted that if the Supreme Court declared the health care reform bill to be constitutional, it would lead to violent insurrection against "government tyranny."

The blogger posted the statements, which come from a recent unpublished interview, the same day the House of Representatives voted to find Attorney General Eric Holder in contempt over his unwillingness to release documents related to Fast and Furious.

In the excerpts Vanderboegh posted on his blog "which deal with the decision today," he says of a then-potential decision upholding the health care law, "You may call tyranny a mandate or you may call it a tax, but it still is tyranny and invites the same response." He further predicts the response of his ilk: "If we refuse to obey, we will be fined. If we refuse to pay the fine, we will in time be jailed. If we refuse to report meekly to jail, we will be sent for by armed men. And if we refuse their violent invitation at the doorsteps of our own homes we will be killed - unless we kill them first. ... I am on record as advocating the right of defensive violence against a tyrannical regime."

Vanderboegh gained fame in 2010 when he urged his readers to respond to the passage of health care reform by breaking the windows of Democratic offices, then took credit after vandals struck several such offices. The Alabama-based blogger has previously been part of the militia and Minuteman movements, and leads the Three Percenters, a group which claims to represent the three percent of gun owners who "who will not disarm, will not compromise and will no longer back up at the passage of the next gun control act" but will instead, "if forced by any would-be oppressor, ... kill in the defense of ourselves and the Constitution."

Vanderboegh was one of the first to break the story that ATF whistleblowers said that they had been ordered to knowingly allow gun trafficking suspects to take weapons across the border into Mexico. The operation was intended to allow law enforcement to identify other members of the trafficking network that for years has directed assault weapons into the hands of Mexican cartels, with the goal of bringing those cartels down. He has said that he and a fellow blogger were the "midwives of the scandal" who introduced the whistleblowers to congressional investigators. He has theorized that the operation was part of a secret plot against the Second Amendment directed from the highest levels of government.

Last year Fox repeatedly hosted Vanderboegh on their air to provide expert commentary on the story. Then in November, four Georgia men were arrested in connection with an alleged plot to kill federal employees and civilians using explosives and the biological agent ricin. According to the criminal complaint against him, one of the alleged domestic terrorists repeatedly cited Vanderboegh'snovel Absolved as the inspiration for their plot. Media subsequently noted that Vanderboegh had, in the words of the Associated Press, "appeared as a commentator on Fox News Channel." He has not done so since.

Vanderboegh's exchange with the unnamed reporter from today's blog post:

Question: You said in an interview with the Washington Post that a handful of Americans "are armed and are capable of making such resistance possible and perhaps even initiating a civil war." Would you support a civil war over health care law?

"Initiating a civil war" is a misquote. All of my work has been focused on preventing a civil war by making the clueless understand that one is possible. Their Weltanschauungs prevent it. I'm trying to get them to understand that we are in fact two countries now. We share a common language (most of us) and border, but we disagree on the critical question that the Founders answered with defensive violence against King George's violence - shall the people serve the government of the government serve the people? Does it matter if we agree on traffic laws or the rules by which our kids play soccer if we disagree on something so fundamental? The health care law carries with its meeching platitudinous promises the hard steel fist of government violence at the center. If we refuse to obey, we will be fined. If we refuse to pay the fine, we will in time be jailed. If we refuse to report meekly to jail, we will be sent for by armed men. And if we refuse their violent invitation at the doorsteps of our own homes we will be killed - unless we kill them first. It is Nancy Pelosi who first plunked the threat of violence on the table like Goering reaching for his revolver. How should principled, free people react to such threats? I am on record as advocating the right of defensive violence against a tyrannical regime. The Founders would agree. If someone on the street threatens to break into my house and steal my property or kill me, and I tell them, "If you do this, you will be killed," am I the violent one? Or is it merely good manners to warn the miscreant of the probable outcome?

I was once asked by a gun prohibitionist my thoughts on his desire for my disarmament. I began to explain as best I could and he cut me off with an impatient, "Give me the short answer." "Okay," I said after pausing briefly, "If you try to take our firearms we will kill you." He left quickly, muttering oaths about my sanity. Yet you will get the same answer from that other half of the country that such people make no attempt to understand, only deride and name-call. Such ignorance can get a whole lot of people killed. That is the point I'm trying to get across. If the Constitution as crafted by the Founders and the rule of law no longer applies, that is, if we now have the law of the jungle, then my half of the country is far better prepared to live and thrive in that jungle others force into than they are. Another formulation: If the rule of law no longer protects us from government tyranny, it no longer protects that tyranny and its acolytes from us. It is a two-way street and I hope desperately that Nancy Pelosi and her ilk understand that before it is too late.

Question: What are your thoughts about how the Supreme Court will rule on health care Thursday? What do you see as the potential implications of its decision?

See above. If the individual mandate is upheld, me and a few million of my friends will not comply and we will make ourselves so obnoxious in our refusal that sooner or later some government agent is going to try to kill us. Because the one thing a tyrant cannot tolerate is the example of someone being unafraid and saying "No." It's a bad example for the rest of the sheep and might encourage noncompliance. When that happens, you have only to read history to predict the outcome. To believe anything else is to whistle past the graveyard of history. your social media marketing partner


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+197 # erogers 2012-07-01 14:26
Mike Vanderboegh is an expert and thus appearing on False News. The very fact that he is on False News means he is no more an expert on Fast & Furious as he is on cereal or Twinkies. Mike, go back to the damned cave you crawled out of. You are a pathetic person and when the first shot was fired you would piss your pants. Your ideas for freedom would involve a white sheet and pillow case.
-12 # paulrevere 2012-07-01 19:11
I completely agree with one aspect of wha Vandergoegh has to say...and I don't equate it with health care beligerance.

This government, at the behest of money and power has pushed WETHEPEOPLE up against a very solid and high it or be jailed, fined, imprisoned etc...OWS is the prime mover of my thinking here.

If Mr.Vandergoegh feels that governmental pressure and prejudice, as do blacks and hispanics in NYC (and all over this country), and as have those in OWS, and as do those being tossed from their stolen homes etc etc, then I'd project that the govenment is in a very precarious state of overreach...

Remember...DRONES, with tazers, rubber bullets, beanbag bombs, infrared invasive vision et al are NOW PART OF THE LANDSCAPE.
+14 # rockieball 2012-07-02 09:38
Only if you are a ignorant Tea Party Fox News watcher. Or live in the two states in the contest to become the mental illness capitol of the world Florida and Arizona.
-4 # John Locke 2012-07-02 09:57 I thought Paulrevere made a good point, what part of..."DRONES, with tazers, rubber bullets, beanbag bombs, infrared invasive vision et al are NOW PART OF THE LANDSCAPE". didn't you get?
+1 # Beth Carter 2012-07-03 01:26

I grew up in the Deep South. I have family in TN, AL, GA, and FL. I'm out here an activist in WA state to insure that I might see old age. But I faced down rubber bullets during WTO, and it's SCARY when the cops watch damage being done and do nothing until the whole peaceful protest is lost only to go in and wreck everything even further. They pepper sprayed an old lady in a wheelchair for Heaven sake! Dick Durbin in April 2009 said that banks run Capitol Hill. Vanderboegh is following down a very eugenics' path which is the antipathy of the Declaration of Independence, but the turn in government policy is definitely troubling on the whole, healthcare mandate or no. Alabama is not a shining beacon of ethics, but to ignore the takeover of the government by a concentrated few is to ignore the real problem. See Thrive, the movie. You'll see what I mean.
0 # CL38 2012-07-03 22:42

Run, don't walk to see the movie, Thrive, What on Earth Will it Take? for free @ It's well worth watching.
+3 # CL38 2012-07-03 22:38
Come off it you fool. We're all mandated to buy insurance for operating a car. This is no different.

If the right wants to threaten or act on violence, they'll be arrested and go to jail, just like every other bully and thug.
-10 # RLF 2012-07-02 06:05
All of the really smart people live in Alabama...the education state!
+6 # John Locke 2012-07-02 09:59
Actually its the entire south, and Governor George Wallace promoted the education quality of the South, aided by the Fundamantal Christian Right!
+7 # Texas Aggie 2012-07-02 14:15
Don't forget the snark button. Some people don't get it.
+4 # AMLLLLL 2012-07-02 13:13
Yes indeedy, erogers; someone geld that guy!
+196 # CAMUS1111 2012-07-01 15:15
Unfortunately, the GOP, in Congress and other elected positions all over the country, is largely dominated by extremist thugs like this dangerous goose-stepper. It is a party beyond redemption.
+173 # Barbara K 2012-07-01 16:08
What a bunch of nonsense. These idiots are so despicable that they would rather shoot us than to let us have Health Care? Well, bring it on, we shoot back, you know, and we'll have health care.
+77 # Lolanne 2012-07-01 17:53
Aren't there laws against inciting to riot? Why can't this idiot be arrested for doing just that? Certainly his statements are meant to fire up those who think (if I may use the word!) like he does...sounds like inciting to me.

Barbara K, I read in a brief comment of yours on some other article that your daughter was in Colo Springs...Is she safe, and is her home OK? Sincerely hope so!
+34 # Barbara K 2012-07-01 19:15
Lolanne: Yes, she finally sent me a message about midnight last night that she is safe and the fire didn't damage her home, though many others were not so fortunate. She said that the smoke is awful, keeps one coughing and choking. It is so sad to see this happen to a newer, beautiful city. Luckily, they were able to keep the fire away from downtown. I didn't see her message until this morning and was so much relieved. Thanks for caring.
+18 # Lolanne 2012-07-01 21:34
Yay, Barbara K -- so thankful your daughter and her home are OK! And so sad for all those who were not so fortunate.
+6 # KittatinyHawk 2012-07-02 09:21
Glad for the news. Hope they can get fire contained and out so others do not lose you can replace.
+4 # Barbara K 2012-07-02 10:24
KittanyHawk: Thanks, no further word yet. The fire in the canyon was 25% contained when she sent the message about 36 hours ago. She lives in the city. There are videos of it on YouTube that I monitored most of the time over the week-end. What a sad and devastating thing that just leaves one so helpless to see their home go up in such a destructive blaze. At last count there were 2 dead from the same home fire. Many missing. Thanks for caring.
0 # John Locke 2012-07-02 10:04
Lolanne: You still can speak of revolution until you begin advocating it! He has not crossed that line, yet!
-12 # John Locke 2012-07-02 10:02
Barbara K: THat sounds like a real plan to bring health care in, fill the hospitals with gun shot victims!
+28 # John Locke 2012-07-01 18:19
CAMUS1111: You missed the point... Militias are spreading across the country, to deny this is to continue to bury your head in the sand...

Almost a decade after largely disappearing from public view, right-wing militias, ideologically driven tax defiers and sovereign citizens are appearing in large numbers around the country. "Paper terrorism" — the use of property liens and citizens' "courts" to harass enemies — is on the rise. And once-popular militia conspiracy theories are making the rounds again, this time accompanied by nativist theories about secret Mexican plans to "reconquer" the American Southwest.

One law enforcement agency has found 50 new militia training groups — one of them made up of present and former police officers and soldiers.

Authorities around the country are reporting a worrying uptick in Patriot activities and propaganda. "This is the most significant growth we've seen in 10 to 12 years," says one. "All it's lacking is a spark. I think it's only a matter of time before you see threats and violence."

This is a fact, don't take it lightly....
+36 # lexy677 2012-07-02 00:07
"Almost a decade after largely disappearing from public view, right-wing militias, ideologically driven tax defiers and sovereign citizens are appearing in large numbers around the country."

The fact that they disappeared during george w. bush's "reign of disaster" should tell you one thing: These "troglodytes" are worried about one thing only, and that is Race. They are not concerned about anything else although they usually hide under a cloak of the usual "tax" and and "personal Liberty" issues. They are simply insecure cowardly racists.
+7 # John Locke 2012-07-02 06:42
lexy677: Although there is certainly some issue of race involved, not all are race conscious, many see NDAA and the Patriot act extension and the lack of criminal prosecutions of the Banks and their CEO’s as serious constitutional violations that affect the continuation of the republic...and they are!

Many also see our wars as illegal…and they are!

There is also a new uptick over states rights which the Civil war did not resolve!

There are multiple militias with varied ideological reasons for their existence the fact they are growing should be alarming!
+3 # KittatinyHawk 2012-07-02 09:43
Race conscious no such thing. Anyone who speaks of race should know that there is no such thing as 'White' If these skanks would actually read, research, they would understand that we came from Middle East/Africa....
If their Pastors, Preachers, Rabbis were truthful and teach the Word instead of Money, than man/woman would be taught We Are all the Same. Too many do not even realize that without fact of where we are descendants from. Rape of the Wars throughout Europe, Middle East, Africa, Asia could not have not affected blood lines. Most Aristocrats were forking their help, Hordes of Warriors didn't care who they did from Children to Bar Wench. Disease was spread and Babies born, History had proved this time and again.

Then the USA we stole and raped Indian land and women. Indians did the same. Slave Market opened and likewise the men and women of USA bedded down with the members of this new fad. Wars again took men far away, children born, mothers turned out for allowing themselves to get with child.
Then men, perhaps women have bought partners from many Countries/Natio ns as partners. Children are befriending other kids and do not care of race or creed.
Who is it we are going to kill? We are of the world and the world of us. POINT is Man just likes to KILL....Man Likes to Abuse ask animals.
When they have killed us, they will then annihilate themselves, because that thirst will not be statiated
+3 # John Locke 2012-07-02 10:10
KittatinyHawk: so, there is no racism in the US? and the redneck driving the pick up truck with his rifle in the back window is a mere illusion...Than k cleared that up...I was worried!
+8 # Texas Aggie 2012-07-02 14:21
After several rereads of her article, I see no where that she claims that racism does not exist in the US. Rather, what she says is that the concept of race itself is faulty and that "mixed race" is the default for everyone.
0 # John Locke 2012-07-02 16:39
Texas Aggie: read it again..."Race conscious no such thing"!!! Unles I have no grasp of the English Language she is implying racism doesn'r exist!
-2 # KittatinyHawk 2012-07-02 09:34
They are drunks, drug addicts, bullys, wife beaters, animal abusers. Not very idealogy for a Militia.
Milita are men and women seeking cause to protect their family, neighbors and country from attack. Normally admirable but then you get that '3%' imbecile who lives in fear, refuses to read and learn, beats the lies into his family. They usually end up dead because their focus is on the wrong target.

Sad how people of color, creed have fought side by side for common good. Taking the beatings of War both mentally and physically....s till come home hating those who covered their back. They should come home and speak the truth, help with awareness but maybe they should not go back if it means living in stupidity. Choices should learn how to make them as they were meant by the Creator...for all.
+2 # John Locke 2012-07-02 10:11
KittatinyHawk: African Americans and Caucasions fighting side by side, my recollection of the second world war was separate units!
0 # bigkahuna671 2012-07-02 23:37
John, you impress me. Your "recollection of the second world war" implies you're of the age of "America's Greatest Generation" and you should be commended for being so computer literate. Of course, again, if you really are of that generation, then you may now be approaching that period of your life where you are forgetful and actually believe your press (thank Tom Brokaw). Somehow, though, I believe you're younger and probably a boomer. Your wars were fought by integrated military units. While KHawk does stumble a bit with her logic, it's still much more rational than some of what you throw against the wall.
+1 # John Locke 2012-07-05 17:34
bigkahuna671: What is the point you are trying to make with false facts: I back up mine! Get your facts strait before you attempt to attack someone who knows just a bit more then you do! we had segregated troops! and Yes I am a boomer!

also read more here

if that isn't enough try looking up segregation in the military!
+5 # KittatinyHawk 2012-07-02 09:29
Militias are spreading...whe re have you been. There have always been paranoid schizo people who believe that living by the gun is okay.

There have been people exposed for having arsenals in nice neighborhoods,. ..neighbors were a bit scared of losing their homes due to the extreme having bit too much ammunition about.

Militias are actually a good thing. If something would happen, I would feel glad to have people who have trained, so as to protect the USA from Attack

However, when they start allowing their prejudice, hatred carry the gun instead of sense and sensibility, they are worthless. Many have drinking problems, drug problems and need to hurt someone or something. These are the ones who hurt animals, family members so they should be behind bars with other inmates who believe killing is the answer.

Funny thing about a gun, it is a great tool. It can feed you, be great sport for aiming and shooting events, and nice protection if you know what you are doin.
But most imbeciles with guns Kill innocent people or end up with their guns shooting them. The fact that these imbeciles think it is alright to go into countries and sell guns for profit really are no better than the drug lords destroying our children.

Republicans are not of sound mind so why would anyone who follows them be?
+1 # John Locke 2012-07-02 10:17
KittatinyHawk: "most imbeciles with guns Kill innocent people" Statistics say you are wrong!

The FBI estimates that there are over 200 million privately-owned firearms in the US. If you add those owned by the military, law enforcement agencies and museums, there is probably about 1 gun per person in the country.

If you want to get a rough idea of how many guns there are out there just look at how many people you see out there then multiply by a factor of estimated ownership. The last best guess was about 350,000,000 Total. That would be 1 weapon for every man woman and child.

The average gun enthusiast owns several firearms which includes pistols, shotguns, and rifles of all makes and models. It is often estimated that about 1 in 4 people 25% of the population own any firearms and on average firearms owners own 4 guns each.

Read more:
-4 # John Locke 2012-07-02 10:01
CAMUS1111: Do you believe the Democratic party who also have their hand out and worship at the same Wall Street Alter is any different?
0 # John Locke 2012-07-07 08:29
CAMUS1111: Like the Democratic party as well!
+135 # oldleftie 2012-07-01 16:20
Chill, folks. All that's going to happen to the people who refuse to get health insurance is that 1) when they go to a doctor, they'll have to pay cash, 2) the fines will be deducted from their tax refunds, and 3) if they don't get refunds, the bills will mount up and they'll be deducted from their social security. This is just a silly little diversion. At least the guy isn't getting paid by Fox anymore..
+105 # Archie1954 2012-07-01 16:33
Armed insurrection to be opposed not only by the government obviously, but also by the 40 million people that just got a right to life instead of death by Obama's provision of healthcare.
+60 # sameasiteverwas 2012-07-01 18:39
It's funny. The NRA only claims 4.3 million members. If the 40 million who just got the surety of health insurance -- and a few million progressives -- joined the organization, some kind of rational policies might be finally instituted, and the "lawmakers" wouldn't be so ascared of the big bad NRA. Occupy the NRA!
+3 # KittatinyHawk 2012-07-02 10:01
NRA National Repulsive Americans who teach cruelty by killing animals Creator gave us. Wild to Domestic...targ et practice, fighting rings Man need blood.

NRA National Republican A____holes. Just have to control people, put laws into affect that show them who is boss. Let NRA pump up members and other homeboys hate groups...yep that is what America was built on..
+106 # freeportguy 2012-07-01 16:35
Did this guy ever volunteer for Vietnam or any other international conflicts, or is he simply a domestic terrorist ready to kill fellow Americans enforcing laws because he wants to save a few dollars?
+62 # Ralph Averill 2012-07-01 17:45
Vanderboegh wouldn't last a day in the military; big problem with authority figures, a team player only when the team plays his way.
+7 # KittatinyHawk 2012-07-02 10:02
Couldnot pass mental evaluation. didnot work well together with other children, like his parents
-19 # John Locke 2012-07-01 18:07
freeportguy: why bring up a war that was illegal, do you think people who left the country rather then be drafted were criminals, I think they were heros! That war was all about control of the Golden Triangle Drug Trade... Our wars of choice are all about US! Oil and or Drugs... and He has a point although his way of making it may be incorrect in your view...

This country was founded by violence it will be resurrected the same way!
+10 # freeportguy 2012-07-02 04:48
Wow, talk about twisting the meaning of my message!

When it's time to fight for the country, he was NOT willing to volunteer!
When it's time to save fellow countrymen, he is still NOT there!
When he disagrees on politics, he THREATENS his countrymen.

In essence, the guy is a COWARD how hides behind his keyboard to INCITE others to cause mayhem through vitriolic rhetoric who then washes his hands when some are caught preparing for that.
-5 # John Locke 2012-07-02 10:28
freeportguy: Do you mean like Ruby Ridge and WACO?
+3 # KittatinyHawk 2012-07-02 10:06
They made choices, that was theirs. Many had to live with those choices and not being here, it was not easy on them.

WE are raised on Religions saying 'Thous Shalt Not Kill" then we expect our children to go off and kill others, children, seniors, and women. It doesnot weight right in their brain...we are having more problems in suicide, violent, after math mental problems. Then we have those who come back and want to Kill and Maime for any reason, anyone, any color....most of them have upbringing that goes with it and Church also.

No Heros anymore....just Choices.
+86 # LeeBlack 2012-07-01 16:37
I'd like to see some realistic numbers on the number of people who benefit from the ACA and those who resent the government insistence that all people have health care. I would expect the former to outnumber the latter by about 25 to 1.

Surely the same people who can afford insurance and don't want to pay for it are the same ones who don't want to use seat belts, don't want to pay liability insurance on their car or pay taxes. In other words anarchists.
-64 # John Locke 2012-07-01 18:11
LeeBlack: If you placed that bet you would lose 51% of the voting public are against the health care law, myself included! I am not against health care for all, I am for that, I am against this application of such a law....

And another point I won't use the seat belt. Thankfully my wife also doesn't as she was in a serious accident that if she had been wearing it she would not be here with me now! I pay Taxes and carry a lot of insurance...Do you consider me an anarchrist?
+57 # Texan 4 Peace 2012-07-01 19:40
LOL Not using seatbelts is natural selection at work.
And you're wrong about 51% of the voting public... Poll after poll shows that most people support the law. Which itself is immaterial to the quality of the law, but them's the facts.
-12 # John Locke 2012-07-01 23:37
Texan 4 Peace: Yes I was wrong its actually 52% who oppose Obamacare!
+13 # freeportguy 2012-07-02 04:43
And this includes those who are so against ACA they want to move to...Canada! Let's see what the REAL number is once they truly understand it AND benefit from it instead of relying on Fox propaganda.
-2 # John Locke 2012-07-02 10:36
freeportguy Sorry my friend that was your poll the Reuters/Ipsos poll on Sunday
0 # Todd Williams 2012-07-02 06:42
Actually, the poll I saw yesterday placed it at 46% to 46%.
+1 # John Locke 2012-07-02 10:37
Todd Williams: That was the poll regarding voter preferences for the candidates, you have to read Tod!
-1 # Todd Williams 2012-07-03 06:10
You are wrong. I checked again and i was right. So there.
0 # John Locke 2012-07-05 17:37
Todd Name your source if you have one?
+6 # motamanx 2012-07-02 09:28
76% of the people who use statistics with quotes are 43% wrong two thirds of the time.
+10 # conniejo 2012-07-02 10:21
The polls that ask people if they support "Obamacare" show the stats that you cite. However, when people are asked if they support each specific provisions of the law, the vote of support on nearly every provision is greater than 70%. Many people who say they are opposed to Obamacare are unaware what is in the law and/or are reacting with the GOP against anything with Obama's name attached to it.
-2 # John Locke 2012-07-02 10:39
conniejo: I read the entire 1047 pages and alot of it is good, and there is much that is bad! My primary argument is IRS control and the Fine/"tax" also that the insurance company still controlls premiums!and can raise them periodically!
0 # CL38 2012-07-03 22:45
says a dedicated fox watcher
+9 # ABen 2012-07-02 11:57
As a former race car driver (younger days) who witnessed many severe car crashes and was personally involved in a few, your choice to not wear seat belts strikes me as utterly irrational. This choice is certainly yours to make, but it does call into question your decision making process.
+16 # MHAS 2012-07-02 01:08
I wear seat belts and am not a libertarian on such matters. I am in favor of publicly funded, single payer healthcare for all and would happily pay my taxes in support of such. I am not in favor of being required to pay parasitic private, for-profit insurance companies who will only get richer and more powerful as a result of this forced purchase. For 30 years, I have chosen to spend my limited resources on high quality organic foods and other means of preserving good health rather than bet against myself and give it to insurance companies whose coverage would end the minute I could no longer pay. There are aspects of this bill that I can live with---26 year olds staying on their parents' plan (if they have one) and pre-existing condition issues--but it is not a technicality to object to the insurance industry having captive clients. I can choose not to have a car. I can't choose not to be...
+11 # conniejo 2012-07-02 10:24
MHAS - You are not alone in supporting a single payer system vs. the ACA. Many of the people I know are disappointed that the single payer was off the table from nearly the beginning. ACA is a giveaway to the insurance companies, and I really dislike that. But I am glad that the government will fine those who can afford insurance but choose to saddle the government (us) with the bills because they use emergency rooms.
+1 # MHAS 2012-07-02 19:40
Most people who do not have health insurance simply cannot afford it. But what is the threshold for being able to afford and who decides based on what criteria? There are people in a gray area where being forced to buy insurance means they cannot afford decent food or decent housing or some other expense that is essential to a decent quality of life...perhaps taking care of an aging parent... On a personal note, I have been a college adjunct instructor with no benefits and low wages. I live simply. I have not saddled the government with a single penny of costs in part because I take care of myself.
+1 # Todd Williams 2012-07-02 06:40
Yes, but also simply cheap bastards.
+68 # L mac 2012-07-01 17:01
Vanderboegh is just so much noise. I say pay him no mind and like a plant with no water he'll wither up and die.
+65 # deejaycee 2012-07-01 17:15
I just wish that dangerous idiots like Mike V. knew what the h--- they were talking about. He sounds like he is full of fury just waiting for an excuse to release his venom so he can have his moment in the spotlight. Too bad the media are giving him the attention he craves.

He doesn't even begin to know what ACA will, or will not, do. Can't he read?
+10 # Todd Williams 2012-07-02 06:44
He's a big blowhard and a bully to boot. He's a piece of garbage that should be ignored. His fellow militiamen are also a bunch of wannabe soldier losers.
+53 # Abigail 2012-07-01 17:22
It will be interesting to see how Mitt Romney reacts to the national healthcare program, which is modeled after the plan he introduced to Massachusetts when he was Governor.
+42 # whatwehavehere. . 2012-07-01 18:24
He has been asked that question numerous times and he always talks around it. It is the weakest point of his candidacy and he knows it. The second weak link is his shipping jobs out of Mass and it having a higher job loss than many states. You know, the blind allegiance supports the GOP based on a few basic premises, fear, guns, gays and abortion, so they parrot but the truth is that they are goaded and brainwashed into supporting a party that is blatantly in opposition to the best interests. The militant supporters are seldom wealthy enough or in big business sufficient to justify their loyalty! You have to wonder, don't you?
+24 # Texan 4 Peace 2012-07-01 19:41
He's already said it was "the worst idea I ever hand." There's a stirring campaign slogan!
+34 # DavidMG 2012-07-01 17:36
These peopel can be drafted to be killed, but go nuts over health insurance.
+64 # Old Uncle Dave 2012-07-01 17:40
Torture? Cool. Warrantless wiretapping? No problem. Unlimited detention with no trial? Fine. Targeted killing based solely on suspicion? Sure. Expand health care to cover more Americans? Time to pick up a gun!

sometimes I think shit like this (both the blog post and reporting of it to the "other side") is part of an agenda to keep the peasants fighting amongst themselves.
-4 # John Locke 2012-07-02 10:47
Old Uncle Dave: Everyone chooses their battle?
+43 # reiverpacific 2012-07-01 17:47
This Neanderthal twit reminds me of the occasional reactionary bile-plumbers and commentators who poke out a finger on RSN in their lack of comprehension of what freedom really is, or could be, and would have us ruled by patrolling warlords who'd try to charge we of the unarmed for "protection". They are sometimes known as "Mafia", "Vigilantes", "Minute-Men", "Tontons Macoute", "Mossad", the former "Blackwater" or simply "Death Squads" among many other names.
He and his ilk remind me of the darker sides of a Huxley novel but are not nearly so subtle nor intriguing.
I think that most of us on RSN are freedom seekers from the Corporate State and I for one will fight as fiercely or more so than these thugs but with different weapons!
-4 # John Locke 2012-07-02 10:50
reiverpacific: you left off the US Government which will have armed patrolls on our streets soon enough!

And I can just see you with a pitch fork going against a tank! it has happened before!Think Hungary in the 1950's
+3 # reiverpacific 2012-07-02 19:11
Quoting John Locke:
reiverpacific: you left off the US Government which will have armed patrolls on our streets soon enough!

And I can just see you with a pitch fork going against a tank! it has happened before! Think Hungary in the 1950's

Hey mate: I'm an old Rugby player and even (shame on me) bar room scrapper betimes, with a nose and broken bits to prove it, and a dad who was a judo and boxing instructor when he was in the British army.
I'm quite aware of the intrusions the government makes in our lives, especially entering the drone era (especially as funded by the CIA "Black Budget").
I just happen to think that a move to the right would hasten the demise of freedoms and armed "citizen militias" would reduce us to even more fragmented warlord status, like Iraq and most of the 'stahns we are still trying to understand and "civilize" according to our atrophied lights, by barbaric and now remote-barbaric means.
D'you think that armed insurrection is a viable alternative to even the militarized cops now in our midst?
I can just see you with your li'l ol' pop-gun, even if it is an AK-47 or whatever the NRA home-based heavy-artillery du jour is, facing the "Darth Vader squads"; you might look to the Mexican Drug cartels on how to really arm their cabals; but perhaps that's y'r dream society?!
B.T.W., if somebody comes up with a drone-dropper weapon, I'd be at the front of the queue. I'd love down a few.
+53 # MasqueMan 2012-07-01 17:51
As Keith Olberman would say, 'THAT MAN IS AN IDIOT'.

If this country didn't riot in the streets in 2000 when, on a 5-4 decision, they declared George W. Bush the President, then nothing is going to move this society off of their collective fat butts.
+5 # Todd Williams 2012-07-02 06:47
Believe me, this dude is being carefully watched by the FBI. He and his buddies are under surveilance.
+4 # KittatinyHawk 2012-07-02 10:14
Blind leading the blind....I feel so much better now that I can go and sleep soundly
-3 # John Locke 2012-07-02 13:30
KittatinyHawk: "Blind leading the blind"...That sounds like the Democratic party today!
0 # John Locke 2012-07-02 10:50
Todd Williams: and you think the FBI isn't reading these posts?
+25 # whatwehavehere. . 2012-07-01 17:57
"The legitimate object of government is 'to do for the people what needs to be done, but which they can not, by individual effort, do at all, or do so well, for themselves'." July 1, 1854
Abraham Lincoln
In honor of the day, this quote from Abraham Lincoln defines the purpose of government. He backed up dissension with military might solely to preserve the UNION, not slavery or states rights, as you will discover if you research his writings thoroughly! The country as one was Lincoln's goal!
Where was the armed rebellion when the Supreme Court decided an election between Bush and Gore, a precedent beyond comparison? Because the Republicans won that bout there was no rebellion. Well, the faithful old party, GOP may well incite the ignorant, fearful, and prejudiced to fulfill their purposes. Would these people support President Obama and fight to preserve the Union as Lincoln was supported in his decisions?
-1 # John Locke 2012-07-02 10:52
whatwehavehere: To answer your question...NO! we are more divided today then we were in 1865
+24 # Kootenay Coyote 2012-07-01 18:03
& all this while eating bananas, thumping his chest, dragging his knuckles &, of course, hurling his shit in all directions.
+21 # lotuslover 2012-07-01 18:04
Let's see. The Weatherundergro und and the SLA tried armed violence and got what changed in the 60's and 70's? Methinks the rhetoric will not meet with reality; but if it does, I'm betting on the good ol USA.
+26 # cassandrapt 2012-07-01 18:05
This looks like the kind of guy who thrives on attention. My take: ignore him!!!!
+23 # dick 2012-07-01 18:09
Since David of the MG is correct, the military draft is oppressive by many orders of magnitude compared to asking freeloaders to pay a tiny fraction of their healthcare costs, WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON? 1.Same old, same old shit from NRA manufacturers, trying to push up profits on arms sales to gullible twerps? 2.KKK
3.deligitimizing progressivism? 4.mobiliizing paranoid idiots?
+3 # KittatinyHawk 2012-07-02 10:17
It worked for CIA
+3 # John Locke 2012-07-02 10:56
dick: Freeloaders, 47 million who can't afford Health insurance and 26 Million who still won't be covered...and perhaps another 30 to 40 million unemployed if the truth be known, I hardly call these people freeloaders!
+17 # mjc 2012-07-01 18:14
Despicable. But the rants we hear from the Teapublicans almost daily aren't much further from calls for revolt than this one. Makes one wonder if we have lost the democratic republic that was founded in 1776 when a fairly mild form of legislation is declared Constitutional. Incidentally, he doesn't have to work very hard to insure that he and his friends will be "obnoxious".
+38 # Vardoz 2012-07-01 18:15
Perhaps there should be an armed insurrection on Medicare which we pay for and Social security which we also pay for and Medicade that we also pay for and all the tens of billions in tax cuts for the richest Americans, the billions we pay for corporate welfare? Of all things people would riot in the streets for health care! How about the tens of billions we pay for our for profit prison system or the millions that our reps are taking to favor the rich or corporation? All I can say is people really have their heads where the sun don't shine. We are already paying for all the emergency room visits!
+28 # uglysexy 2012-07-01 18:25
A nazi calling the kettle black. How retarded are these rednecks who have brainwashed themselves into thinking the ACA does anything but help people?
-4 # John Locke 2012-07-02 10:58
uglysexy: Yes, how dare they think! especially that this bill is a gift to the Insurance industry...They should accept our opinions because after all we are the true intellectuals here!

+28 # jwb110 2012-07-01 18:25
Has no one told these neo-con lunatics that the mandate was what the Republicans and their Heritage Foundation wanted in the bill. The original bill had the public option, no mandate!
Vanderboegh is shouting down his party!
+19 # Barbara K 2012-07-01 19:43
jwb110: I watched all the proceedings daily during the healthcare debates and speeches and amendments. The Republibaggers put those in there just so they could call it a bad Bill, when they realized that it was going to go thru without them. Only Dems voted for giving us Health Care, they were the only ones who cared that we needed to have care and not allowed to die when people couldn't get insurance. The Greedy Old Pigs are so selfish and greedy that they want it all for themselves. They use the "I've got mind, now I want yours" attitude.
+2 # John Locke 2012-07-02 11:00
jwb110: Yes and if you recall Obama quickly took the single payer option off the table to appease the Republicans and the insurance companies rather then fight for what "WE" wanted!
+16 # Danderpig 2012-07-01 18:25
I agree with Vanderboegh that there are two countries now; a red one and a blue one... two peoples. We don't understand each other very well, with less-populous red states dominating the center and south of our country. The primary beneficiaries of government largesse, per capita, are the red states; the blue states are the primary victims of its 'tyranny...' I live in a state where unemployment is bad, and even though it could be worse, the cost of living is so high that I fall well below the poverty line. If it were up to me, I'd abort the middle of our country like a cancerous fetus... and believe me, you're lucky that we insulate you from the rest of the world, because it would abort your insidious asses too.
+19 # spenel334 2012-07-01 18:26
...not to mention that no one, sadly, is taking his guns away. He must be one of those extremists who is convincing gun owners that Obama is about to forcibly take their guns away, under what law or how no one knows. Of course any belief that is not rational, cannot be dealt with in a rational way.
+12 # spenel334 2012-07-01 18:34
and, according to Justice Roberts, Obamacare is a tax. If one looks at it that way, certainly there are many taxes we are required to pay and that people may not like but, for the most part, do pay. So for those who believe the government has no right to mandate health insurance, just call it a tax that all must pay for health care they will eventually need and use, one and all.
-3 # John Locke 2012-07-02 11:02
spenel334: I have the solution, tax everyone who takes the policy, now that is a tax!
-4 # John Locke 2012-07-02 13:34
What, you don't want to pay a tax for the privilege of having to pay for Health Care Insurance?

+11 # 2012-07-01 18:45
This guy is nuts. Why is anyone spending time concerned about what he is thinking?

Those who oppose the PP&ACA will overwhelmingly voice their opinion by voting in the election. I cannot for the life of me imagine all those old, white tea partiers getting violent.

Lee Nason
New Bedford, Massachusetts
+3 # DurangoKid 2012-07-01 18:51
Ever heard of the plug uglies?
-11 # charsjcca 2012-07-01 18:52
Vanderboegh is repeating something well known by social scientists, that violence always holds law in place. History tells us that individuals have resisted this violence and did battle. It is not surprising that some fellow citizens see that it is in their interest to wage against their fellow citizens.

When individuals employed by the public sector decide to obey the commands of their supervisors they do so while unable to distinguish the truth from the false. In a word, they are lackeys and kill upon command. So, there is nothing new here to report.
+32 # amye 2012-07-01 18:53
Barbara K, love what you said! For the love of God, why would anyone kill over healthcare? Does this guy not know that every developed industrialized nation in the world except the USA has universal healthcare for everyone who is a citizen of that country?? Heck, I just saw the medical card for Australians to get universal healthcare and do you know what it said on it??? MEDICARE!! Yep! MEDICARE!! Oh its only for 65 and older in America? Heck, we all pay more than our fair share of taxes for this life and death health service to be UNIVERSAL in America! STOP the WARS and give us our healthcare! No, its not free! OUR taxes pay for it already!! And the BLOODY rich don't help pay any taxes! Greedy pigs only want to pay for their own private hospital suites with the best doctors and fancy restaurant room service with butlers or ladies in waiting!!
+12 # Barbara K 2012-07-01 19:21
amye: LOL! Thanks, the situation was so absurd that I just couldn't help myself with my comment. lol Thanks.
+11 # Bigfella 2012-07-01 21:22
Spot on we Australians as do the New Zealanders right next door both have universal heath care as does all 1st world countries around the world except the USA who's ex-Military Chiefs are calling on the the Government and people to cut military spending and spend on Health and Education not the reverse.
+2 # KittatinyHawk 2012-07-02 10:26
People kill over healthcare all the time...look at ProLifers They bomb free clinics to preserve Infants life? Something in the water, and they fought us over clean environment.
People want to follow so much easier than actually doing anything
+14 # isafakir 2012-07-01 18:54
one sick whacko... how they can go to such lengths to justify total selfishness and total abdication of personal responsibility.
+35 # sameasiteverwas 2012-07-01 19:05
"The graveyard of history" includes the bones of my great-great-gre at-grandfather, who was called to the door and shot for being the only man in Republic, Missouri, to have voted for Abraham Lincoln. Believe me, patriotism and progressiveness run deep in my family, and I am weary of these freaks who keep amping up their civil war rhetoric. This is the Incivil War, fought on blogs and threads and talk shows, in a country of demographic rags and patches -- we can't separate, we can't secede -- except maybe Texas -- we all live together. Yeah, I think it could happen -- note Rwanda, note the damage the right-wing radio shows did there, screeching at their listeners to raise arms, even to rakes, hoes, and machetes, to murder their neighbors. Here, everybody has a gun. EVERYBODY -- on all sides of the argument. Yeah, it could happen here -- as long as lies are defended under the First Amendment with more passion then the truth engenders, we are in danger of finding ourselves at war with our neighbors, of being called to the door and shot by a friend who happens to feel justified because his/her idea of liberty is different from ours. Yes, look at history, PLEASE -- we NEED history classes, civics lessons, instead of hate speech and lies, Limbaugh and Fox. Occupy the airwaves!
+21 # Barbara K 2012-07-01 19:30
sameasiteverwas : Great comment; and you are so correct. It is so volatile and so full of hatemongers now, ever since the witch from the North came down here and ran mouthsful of hate rhetoric disguised as campaign speeches; and brought out the worst in many segments of society. Jack-booted Nazis, gun-toting lunatics, twisted minded people, wandered in to absorb the garbage spewing from her mouth; until the Tbagger bunch were brazen enough to attend Presidential speeches while toting guns. Cannot get more shameful or ignorant than that.
+5 # Bigfella 2012-07-01 21:18
Weel said!
+12 # jerryball 2012-07-01 20:02
Sounds as if he has already engraved his name on a bullet somewhere someday. Ignorant MF'er yellowbelly crowing capon would wet his diaper if THAT bullet tried to find its way home.
+14 # toodeemo 2012-07-01 20:43
Let's see:

Violent overthrow of the US Govt? CHECK

Threats against elected officials? CHECK

Incitement to riot? CHECK

Terrorist threats? CHECK

The guy is a terrorist and is guilty of treason, high crimes against the government. And he calls himself a patriot?

Here's my solution. Let these idiots hae a state. Hell, I'd even give them a nice one. Let them isolate themselves from normal people and give up all of their rights and privileges, utilities, protections associated with being a part of America. No roads. No phones. Nothing. Then they can be as libertarian as they want, and we won't have to put up with ignorant idiots all the time. THEN build a 100 ft high waterproof wall around them, and fill it up. In the event any of them escape, we can use our 2nd Amendment right to have a militia against the common enemy and we can shoot them. Since they won't have health care, they can all bleed to death and fertilize our crops.

NOTE TO TERRORISTS: Liberals have guns too. If you don't want to abide by the law of the land, the ENTIRE law of the land, get out.
-3 # John Locke 2012-07-01 23:45
toodeemo: One problem with your checklist, he hasn't done anything but talk! No overt action against anyone! No actual current threat! He never said he was going to act! he just gave a warning if certain occurences take place how he would respond....

There is a difference for example If I said I will kill someone and named them or identified them, that is a threat that the police can now deal with...

I would however take him seriously!
-1 # KittatinyHawk 2012-07-02 10:31
He has an aresenal. He has threatened. Homeland Security is detaining anyone for anything for any amount of, take this guy and lots like him Let us see how does this work?
-1 # John Locke 2012-07-02 13:37
KittatinyHawk: Last time I looked we had a right to own a weapon and even multiple weapons and ammunition for each... So if homeland security is detaining anyone for any reason, that is ok with you? Get in line and take the tatoo!
+1 # KittatinyHawk 2012-07-02 10:29
Arizona and Texas comes to mind but then there is Florida...
+13 # cordleycoit 2012-07-01 20:59
This shows the inane level of discourse. Health Care was made a whipping boy in the nineteen fifties as "socialized medicine" and out of the old Confederacy came the New Right which high jacked gun ownership from the left. Phrases like Armed and Black, Armed and Feminine frightened the right wing into wet pants as well as making their fellow liberals very uneasy. there are millions of armed liberals who quietly are part of the "Gun culture". They wish to see liberty and justice for all and have little use for wingers pounding the war drum about the "right" to crush civilized health care or the rights of women to control their own bodies and the rights of doctors to assist them. thank you. In other words put the hoods and bedsheets away or face the consequences of being criminal.
-4 # John Locke 2012-07-02 13:42
cordleycoit: "out of the old Confederacy came the New Right which high jacked gun ownership from the left:”

I am not from the right I am more left and own weapons, I don't see the logic of this comment! And if you are referring to the right as the Klan, you are in real cacophony with realty.
+3 # Todd Williams 2012-07-03 06:24
You're the strangest left winger I've ever heard.
0 # John Locke 2012-07-05 17:43
Todd, That does not surprise me either! There is alot about me and the world that you don't know!
0 # John Locke 2012-07-05 17:45
Todd Williams: Am I to understand your thinking that being to the left means not owning weapons?

That to me is strange! That isn't being left, that is being foolish!
+12 # Bigfella 2012-07-01 21:13
I shall not be giving this trash air in my country we have a name for this sort of person "WANKER!" in Germen it is "Vixia" or the ruber which means the same thing IE He playing with himself! So don't let him play with yours!
-4 # Dave_s Not Here 2012-07-01 21:22
The guy is a whacko of nearly the highest order but one thing he says strikes a chord with me:

"If the rule of law no longer protects us from government tyranny, it no longer protects that tyranny and its acolytes from us."
+2 # KittatinyHawk 2012-07-02 10:34
You have said this quite a few times I like others well not sign on to threats of tyranny as we do not seem to have the problem living, finding ways to change things without violence.
Violence never solved anything it just keeps making everyone need bigger weapons and more violence. I depend on myself.
+13 # Mrcead 2012-07-01 21:24
Hysterics, plain and simple. Thinking destructive thoughts then taking measures to act on these imagined scenarios used to get one committed in the 1960's.

Now it gets you a string of endorsements with the GOP, a sugar cube and a pat on the head.
+13 # Cdesignpdx 2012-07-01 22:30
Militia groups have always been part of our heritage, but the rise since Obama's election as staggering as their swagger .
May I suggest a donation to the Southern Poverty Law Center.
They are doing an awesome job of identifying and alerting us of paramilitary activities.
I'm not surprised that Faux News is aiding and abetting them–paid interviews to buy more guns for glory.
+10 # lemscar 2012-07-01 23:22
This person should move to Angola, he would fit in very well. As a matter of fact I have heard nothing but support for Obamacare although i have good health care.
+5 # tm7devils 2012-07-02 00:31
For the sake of mankind, people like Mike Vanderboegh should be committed for life! If that doesn't happen we can only hope that he forgets to look both ways when crossing a busy street.
The result of either will increase the average IQ of the general public.
+16 # Carbonman1950 2012-07-02 00:58
Thanks to Katherine Eban's excellent reporting in Fortune Magazine, we now know that Mr. Vanderboegh did not "break" the story that "ATF whistleblowers said that they had been ordered to knowingly allow gun trafficking suspects to take weapons across the border into Mexico." We know that he fabricated that story. We now know that ATF did not allow suspects to take weapons to Mexico. We now know that it was Arizona's absurdly lax gun laws that prevented prosecutors from bringing charges despite ATF's best efforts to prosecute straw purchasers. We now know that Mr. Vanderboegh, like Breitbart before him, is an author and promoter of seditious fiction.
+2 # badbenski 2012-07-02 00:58
Amidst the issues wherein a citizen might feel compelled to resist tyranny with deadly force, I don't believe we'll find this one.
I mean once the public/single payer options were stripped from the law what we have left will boil down to a windfall for Insurance companies. The only question is what's the scam?
Take compulsory auto insurance: For those who can't afford full coverage, which is a lot of folks, you can opt for what's called in my State "no fault" insurance. There's minimum protection for injured parties and nobody's compensated for loss or serious damage to the vehicle except a lien holding finance company. The driver/owner and insured is strickly on his own.
What we have here is those who claim to be against Obama-care sponsored by those who likewise claim to be opposed but are actually about to laugh all the way to the bank.
In the new political reality, things are not only different from how they appear but often exactly opposite. And in the midst of all this walks a faux patriot waving a gun. He is, of course, playing into the hands of those who would attempt to deprive us of our right to bear arms. If Americans pick up the gun it'd better be worth it, they'd better follow through or else shut the hell up.
Do we have the right to replace our government by force? We do, but all who consider such an option best count the cost; Turmoil, confusion and an uncertain outcome. The 1700's it ain't.
+6 # wilma 2012-07-02 03:37
This is just another rant by a 'guns right advocate.

WA Meyers
+7 # HooverBush 2012-07-02 05:08
I for one am happy to stop paying the Dr bills of Free-loaders who haven't had health coverage because they thought they were too healthy to break a leg or need treatment for a host of expensive problems like Cancer.
It's about time someone does something about them!!!!
+2 # DavidMG 2012-07-02 11:19
And waht about corporate capitalism? Care about corps taking your tax money to invest in businesses which they often do not repay even if succssful. You don't care about single parents, sickly, kids, elderly who need help. All you care about are some freeloaders gaming the system, but not mill- and bill-ionairs who don't pay ANY TAXES.
-14 # brucbaker 2012-07-02 05:19
This article missed a couple of points.

ONE... RECONCILLIATION .. .Obama-care may die the death of CONGRESS LEGALLY KILLING IT because as a TAX both Houses get a chance to rewrite the bill.

TWO... STATES are allowed to NOT PARTICIPATE IN THE PROGRAM... or didn't you actually read Judge Roberts ruling/ decision?

Three.... What makes anyone WHO KNOWS SOME of the TRUTH about Obama/ Soetoro/ whatever his other names are ... that he will get another four years? Maybe you SHOULD spend a little time trying to fill in the HISTORY BLANKS for BARRY SOETORO who we are not even sure is LEGALLY B.H. Obama and learn the facts for yourself, eh.

As far as ARMED INSURRECTION... . When has the I.R.S. Ever used military style attacks to collect money? The very premise of this article is based upon EUROPEAN and MIDDLE-EAST VIOLENT PROTESTS ... so GET A FREAKING CLUE!

You are being played by a scenario that DOESN"T EXIST! Socialist and Communists do that .. they stir up trouble so they can say it needs a violent response and then they GRAB POWER! Oh that's right ... every evidence points to the Obama Administration being RIFE WITH Communists and Socialist ... my mistake .. forget what I just wrote, put it out of your mind...
+10 # conniejo 2012-07-02 10:33
Really?!?!?!? Still "birther" crazies around? Obama's birth certificate has been viewed by more people than has the Declaration of Independence!
+6 # Texas Aggie 2012-07-02 14:40
I'm not sure the bill you talk about actually exists outside of right wing talking points.

one: The bill is already written, passed and signed. No one gets a chance at it unless they pass another bill that "refudiates" it.

two: States are allowed to not participate in the medicaid part of it, not the insurance part. If the states don't set up their own exchanges, the federal government does it for them.

three: the scenario that doesn't exist is the one in your imagination that the most corporate friendly Democratic administration since forever is somehow filled with communists and socialists. Have you noticed the DOW in the last couple years or checked out corporate profits?

By the way, deliberately stirring up trouble is a right wing technique as the arson in the Reichstag by the Nazis, the false flag attack that gave an excuse to invade Poland, and the constant demonization of "the other" by the nativists.
+8 # LegendBert 2012-07-02 06:42
Being obnoxious seems to be his long suite.
+7 # 666 2012-07-02 06:57
I think some of you (& the author)are missing the point: Right & Left come together on the topic of govt tyranny & overreach. Govt overreaches when it no longer serves the people. Yet--despite some comments here--what should separate left from right is NON-violence. Peaceful revolution yes; violence NO. Advocating violence against these wankers ("liberals have guns too") plays right into their hands. When we do this, it can make the real Left indistinguishab le from the crazy Right ("they can pry my [gun/health care] from my cold, dead hands"). Govt terrorism like Ruby Ridge & Kent State become possible & more wackos like Palin gain positions of power.

Despite breaking the law, (advocating violence IS a crime, like shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater), the govt won't crack down on these slime-balls--NO T because they have guns (they had guns at Ruby Ridge & Waco too)--but because they serve their fascist masters too well. Like the thugs Mussolini & Hitler used, the fascists will tolerate (Dems) & use (Gops) the actions of such idiots as an excuse to crack down on legitimate dissent (OWS etc). Abortion doc murders, clinic bombings, OK City are a few examples of what these idiots are capable of when tolerated. It can & will happen here if we don't wake up! Is that the Reichstag burning?
+10 # sharsand 2012-07-02 07:12
Do people not understand that besides greed by the health care industry, those who are paying for health insurance now in the so-called free market are paying more because the insurance companies and hospitals and passing the costs of taking care of the uninsured in the emergency rooms onto each and every one of you who now has insurance. With the ACA, the costs will be spread around so that many of the now uninsured will be asked to pay something. Turn off Fox and do research. Do you not like your Social Security and Medicare? Are you happy with all the jobs lost or shipped overseas because of corporate greed? What exactly would anyone be rising up against. Let's rise up against stupidity, ignorance, and racism.
+8 # doneasley 2012-07-02 09:38
Quoting sharsand:
... What exactly would anyone be rising up against?

Sharshand, Right Wingers are rising up against the Black man in the oval office. They look down on him as a man not worthy of holding the office of President. In their eyes he's still a BOY to be put down at every opportunity. Otherwise, what do you think the "Birther" lie is all about. Any time the Big Birther, Donald Trump, wants to grab the headlines, he goes to this outrageous falsehood. There stands Romney beside him on the stage, and he says nothing in response because he want's the Bloviator's money and endorsement. And why would a GOP congressman, Joe Wilson, feel free to shout out, "You lie" during the President's State of the Union address in the halls of Congress. They hate him, despise him, loathe him because of the color of his skin. They look upon him with scorn and disdain, and they have since his first day in office. What do you think "take back OUR country" means on Jan 20, 2009? While he and the First Lady were making the rounds of inaugural balls, the Regressives were meeting to plot his overthrow. Just last week in discussions about the Fast & Furious program, the IMPEACHMENT word came up again.

Oh, they hate Democrats for sure, but they completely DESPISE our president with a passion because of the hue of his skin.
+1 # KittatinyHawk 2012-07-02 10:44
Laws could be made better. Laws should be made better. Until we get in 'Leaders' and get out the riff raff, we will be in deadlock.
Vote but look now at how your locals vote, state vote, and federal reps vote. Call them and tell them You do not like their decisions on....Animal rights, Healthcare, Jobs. Do this weekly, reminding them you will be Voting in Nov. Tell them they better help to get Voters ID and do it legally.

You have to make the Changes. Ignoring the ignorant if they want no help in learning. You can share Awareness on many levels. Get committees, communtiy groups name bashing, just healthy discussions. Never hurts to hear how others think and why. If you know why, you can help them learn, let them. After all it is all about Choice. You can know you gave people something to make choices about. I wish you a Great Fourth of July.

It took a lot of different Views, Personalities, Belief in Self to be where we are today. Celebrate Life....
+5 # toodeemo 2012-07-02 09:01
John Locke, people HAVE taken action based upon what he has said. Broken windows in legislators' offices for one. While he may or may not have done anything yet, he DOES incite or attempt to incite the kind of violence he professes. This is NOT protected speech. A call to arms is a call to arms.
+3 # okie_mule 2012-07-02 11:04
Left, right, up, down, over, under; who cares what your political leaning is? The Southern Poverty Law Center tracks hate groups and militias are listed most often. The guy who goes around telling everyone what horrible things he is going to do to me if I don't do or act the way he/she demands doesn't concern me nearly as much as the quiet, mousey little guy who quietly and secretly plots my demise. Does this loudmouth really think he and his ilk can out gun, out manuver, and out think the military if it came to a confrontation between them. We already live in what is pretty much a police state and the police seem to be about protecting the plutocracy, not the average citizen. O.K. everybody, let's hear your war cries ......Baaaaaah, baaaaah.
+1 # cynnibunny 2012-07-02 11:45
This is non-news! If a public figure said this, then it would be something. Otherwise, what a blogger says, no matter how crazy, is not worth my attention.
+1 # carolsj 2012-07-02 11:48
A simple solution to those who refuse to pay the fine: no free health care, no more state supported safety net. You don't have to jail them (even though that's not in the law). Their punishment will be inevitable when they get sick or injured--they pay or die. Their medical debts should be like student loans--interest added and not permitted in bankruptcy.
+4 # Kietryn 2012-07-02 12:02
I just want to repost what OldLeftie said because I hope it's true and can diffuse this kind of heated rhetoric.
"Chill, folks. All that's going to happen to the people who refuse to get health insurance is that 1) when they go to a doctor, they'll have to pay cash, 2) the fines will be deducted from their tax refunds, and 3) if they don't get refunds, the bills will mount up and they'll be deducted from their social security. This is just a silly little diversion. At least the guy isn't getting paid by Fox anymore.."
+3 # bobby t. 2012-07-02 14:20
the person who said that we didn't do anything when scotus helped bush win in 2000 and that proved we don't do insurrections. good point....
my own big time in history was reagan and the air controllers strike. that was the end of the middle class in america. the afl cio did nothing.on that day, america died. the middle class was built on the unions and they and the word liberal became a dirty word. that propaganda has worked for many years. even union memeber in wisconsin voted for walker. insideous and evil. who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? all of this stuff, abortion rights, etc. throws us all off the mark which is the overthrow of the country by the top one percent. they are the traitors. they are the slave makers. global economy does help people out of poverty. so now most of the people on the planet are wage slaves. get used to it. soilent green is not far off....
+3 # ericlipps 2012-07-02 15:02
If the Constitution as crafted by the Founders and the rule of law no longer applies, that is, if we now have the law of the jungle, then my half of the country is far better prepared to live and thrive in that jungle others force into than they are.
This imbecile is eager for a civil war because the thinks "his half" of the country can shoot its way to victory.

What half? I'd be surprised if it were half of one percent--of one percent! These people always think they're either the majority or close to it, and they never are.
+5 # fredboy 2012-07-02 19:26
If violent insurrection arose it would spell the end of the radical, hateful right...or is it now reich?
+3 # goddessmother 2012-07-03 00:41
The enemies of Democracy would adore a violent insurrection. Then they would suppress it with heavy armaments and tear up the Constitution exploiting for profit all natural and human resources until they are depleted.

The Affordable Health Care Act would pay my family $1026/mo to buy health insurance. That's good for me, but it will be another massive transfer of public wealth into private hands because there is no cap on cost of insurance. The difference in cost to the government to pay >$!000/mo to each of the 47,000 uninsured families to line the pockets of for-profit insurance executives vs. Medicare for all where the population will not be mandated to enrich private insurance executives with public funds.

In addition, Justice Roberts opened up a Pandora's box when he stated in his decision that the Federal government could not coerce states to comply with any conditions. Now states will want their interstate highway funds without complying with the speed limit, etc.
0 # cherylpetro 2012-07-03 03:31
That guy needs to be ignored! I think he feeds off the attention! Then, the Secret Service, and the FBI should pay him a little visit!
+1 # badbenski 2012-07-03 12:22
Think we're not in deep doo-doo?

So then, what happens when some government mandate or other consitutes a line you're not willing to cross?

Forget appealing to legislators, they're bought and paid for already.

Do you sue? Maybe, but from where I sit there aren't to many judges willing to rock the boat.

So okay, fine... you engage in a bit of self advocacy, find others with similar complaints and do a little peaceful demonstrating, at which point your militarized local police kicks your teeth in and drags you away to the pokey.

Several rather expensive days in court later, there you sit with the same problem, except now you're on probation.

What do you do? Cave in? Cross the line you weren't willing to cross before? What about that next line?

We're the Frogs in the pot on slow boil and the powers that be will likely not be dumb enough to do something to cause us all to be up in arms (so to speak) together. If they do, you can bet they're prepared to deal with the backlash.

So, here we sit, the most heavily armed National populace on the planet and it's likely that it will provide little protection from the creeping tyranny besetting us.

So goodbye American Dream... not with a bang, but with a whimper.

Our forefathers are not just turning over in their graves, they're spinning like lathes.
+3 # JSRaleigh 2012-07-03 13:01
I think maybe the lesson to be learned here is maybe it's not such a great idea for only the right-wingnutz to have all the guns.
0 # ilenewells 2012-08-03 07:56
If millions of people purposely do not buy health insurance just because they are supposed to, then they are cutting off THEIR own noses to spite the Democrats. Most people want affordable health insurance and the mandate is the only way to ensure that everyone is in the insurance pool. There will be far fewer people not getting insurance just because they HAVE to than this joker thinks. He sounds like a very ignorant person.

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