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Trump Discussed Pulling US From NATO, Aides Say Amid New Concerns Over Russia
Written by <a href="index.php?option=com_comprofiler&task=userProfile&user=49965"><span class="small">Julian E. Barnes and Helene Cooper, The New York Times</span></a>   
Wednesday, 16 January 2019 09:22

Excerpt: "There are few things that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia desires more than the weakening of NATO, the military alliance among the United States, Europe and Canada that has deterred Soviet and Russian aggression for 70 years."

John Bolton. (photo: Jose Luis Magana/AP)
John Bolton. (photo: Jose Luis Magana/AP)


Trump Discussed Pulling US From NATO, Aides Say Amid New Concerns Over Russia

By Julian E. Barnes and Helene Cooper, The New York Times

16 January 19

 

here are few things that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia desires more than the weakening of NATO, the military alliance among the United States, Europe and Canada that has deterred Soviet and Russian aggression for 70 years.

Last year, President Trump suggested a move tantamount to destroying NATO: the withdrawal of the United States.

Senior administration officials told The New York Times that several times over the course of 2018, Mr. Trump privately said he wanted to withdraw from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Current and former officials who support the alliance said they feared Mr. Trump could return to his threat as allied military spending continued to lag behind the goals the president had set.

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-4 # Rodion Raskolnikov 2019-01-16 10:05
It is false to claim that Putin desires the weakening of Nato. He complains about Nato's expansion eastward because there was an agreement between GHW Bush and Yeltsin that Nato would not do this. Nato have violated all agreements it has made with Russia.

Most Americans believe that Nato is an outdated and pointless organization. It no longer is about the defense of Europe but a fig-leaf behind which Europe conducts colonialist wars all over the world. It is the new military front for a rejuvenated Euro/American world colonialist expansion.

Most Americans want the US to pull out of Nato. Trump only expressed what he saw among the population in general.

It is only the neo-cons like Bolton, pictured above, who want Nato. The Atlantic Council is a Nato funded and very powerful lobbying and propaganda group. American oligarchs and their mouthpieces in the NYT love Nato.

Trump should say privately and openly that the future of the US is independence from Nato. It may not happen all at once in a Twitter, but someday it will happen.
 
 
0 # johnescher 2019-01-16 12:27
Huh? I'm an American, and I don't want NATO to go away. And I can think of millions of Americans who feel the same way. And even more Europeans.

Second point, a question: If Putin doesn't want a weaker NATO does he want a stronger one?

Your other sensationalist claim, that Bolton wants NATO (is this true-- needs backing up?)
makes me think that you just write for shock value.

"The future of the U.S.?" How about "the end of the world?" Since NATO has a proven record of preventing acquisitions and war. With what would you replace it?

You just seem to me like a guy who throws out provocation without thinking it through.
 
 
+6 # HarryP 2019-01-16 12:57
Rodion:
A minor error: GHW Bush’ pledge that there would be no further NATO expansion (beyond East Germany, by then part of unified Germany) was made to Gorbachev, not Yeltsin.

You rightly point out the US broke the promise when Clinton set the US on its current course. Elections sure have consequences. See 2016 & 2018 (the latter the buyer’s remorse election.)

You’re dead wrong to say (three times) that most Americans want out of NATO. A July 2018 Pew poll found that 62% of Americans viewed NATO favorable, 23% unfavorably. That’s better than 2:1.

You say Trump “saw” a groundswell of popular opposition to NATO. That’s your fantasy. Even Trump never made that point. Maybe, just maybe, he’s doing it as a favor to Vladimir Vladimirovich.
 
 
-4 # Rodion Raskolnikov 2019-01-16 15:04
HP -- " GHW Bush’ pledge that there would be no further NATO expansion (beyond East Germany, by then part of unified Germany) was made to Gorbachev, not Yeltsin."


Ooops. Sorry. You are right. My mistake.

So let's use this thread as a poll. We'll see how many commenters are for and how many against Nato.

Right now, there's 1 for Nato. You are sort of for Nato. And there are 4 against Nato. But let's count when more people comment.
 
 
0 # johnescher 2019-01-16 19:19
Quoting Rodion Raskolnikov:
HP -- " GHW Bush’ pledge that there would be no further NATO expansion (beyond East Germany, by then part of unified Germany) was made to Gorbachev, not Yeltsin."


Ooops. Sorry. You are right. My mistake.

So let's use this thread as a poll. We'll see how many commenters are for and how many against Nato.

Right now, there's 1 for Nato. You are sort of for Nato. And there are 4 against Nato. But let's count when more people comment.


No, let's not do your stupid schoolboy poll. Let's go by larger national polls instead. And let's wonder how you can ever hold your head up when you've said three times that most Americans want us out of Nato when the best figure is that 62 per cent want us in? What exactly is the matter with you? Can you explain? Why aren't you ashamed? Do you take no responsibility for what you say? Are you another nihilist, like the nihilists in Russian literature that Turgenev was so excellent at writing about in FATHERS and SONS. There must be some good result that can come out of your prolific political rants.
I'm suggesting that maybe your Russian wife (which we've been told by another that you have) can help you to read and better understand 19th century Russian fiction, among the world's best ever.
 
 
0 # Caliban 2019-01-17 14:04
YES! - to NATO.
 
 
+1 # Dale 2019-01-16 11:55
Of the thousand things available to impeach Trump, the Russia connection is not among them.
NATO is a relic of the Cold War, but used since the collapse of the USSR to surround Russia with missles. Add to that the U.S. and NATO sponsored imposition of fascist thugs as the government of the Ukraine. Is Russia seriously trying to impose regime change on the USA, as the USA is trying to do in Venezuela, Cuba, and Nicaragua, and in the past countless interventions around the world? The propaganda is that Trump has relations with Russian oligarchs, well what about his oppointment of U.S. oligarchs to cabinet and advisor posts. This is the old cold war carried on by Corporate Democrats.
 
 
0 # johnescher 2019-01-16 19:23
Quoting Dale:
Of the thousand things available to impeach Trump, the Russia connection is not among them.


Now how the hell, Dale, do you know that when none of the rest of us do? We're waiting for the report. Have you ever considered doing that yourself?

Do you mind if I re-name you Hell-and Dale? If you say you do mind I won't call you that again.
 
 
+2 # Porfiry 2019-01-16 12:48
"It is false to claim that Putin desires the weakening of Nato." The ONLY way you could know that would be if you had personal knowledge of what Putin wants. Again parroting the Russian line.
 
 
-3 # Rodion Raskolnikov 2019-01-16 15:07
Porf -- Putin makes lots of public comments on Nato. He may make private comments but I don't know any of those. Most of his public comments are complaints about Nato's eastward expansion and overtures to Ukraine and others. He does not say Nato should not exist or be weakened. He just wants to be clear that he objects to Nato moving up close to the Russian border.
 
 
0 # johnescher 2019-01-16 19:31
Quoting Rodion Raskolnikov:
Porf -- Putin makes lots of public comments on Nato. He may make private comments but I don't know any of those. Most of his public comments are complaints about Nato's eastward expansion and overtures to Ukraine and others. He does not say Nato should not exist or be weakened. He just wants to be clear that he objects to Nato moving up close to the Russian border.


Wow, you certainly do think you're an expert on the inside of Putin's head. Maybe there's an affinity there? If so, please tell me since I would like to know: If there were no Nato would Putin like to expand Russia anywhere else past its border which is pretty long? How about Finland? Would Russia like to acquire Finland?
 
 
0 # HarryP 2019-01-16 20:01
Rodion: “It is false to claim that Putin desires the weakening of Ana to.”
Let me give you a little lesson in Russian history and geopolitics. Let me assure you that the Russians are livid about NATO. NATO expansion means that the base at Kaliningrad is now surrounded by a NATO power. It means three former Soviet republics along Russia’s border are armed by the US. In 2008, during the election, McCain urged that Georgia (on Russia’s southern flank) be added to NATO. Putin quickly made clear what he thought of that. If the Georgians and US hadn’t gotten the message, well, the road to Tbilisi was wide open.
And then is the case Ukraine. If it fall to NATO, Sevastopol, Russia’s premier naval base in the Black Sea would become an enclave inside NATO. It took Russia more than half a millennium to finally defeat the Tatar’s, finally ending the “Mongol yoke,” chasing them down once and for all when Catherine the Great took the Crimea, There is a reason why she is known as “the Great.”
That leads us to Trump who’s licking his chops trying to destroy NATO.
 
 
0 # mashiguo 2019-01-16 12:58
NATO serves no purpose other than feeding its own bloated military-industrial-graft-machine.

It is not Putin that wants the weakening of NATO, it is all of America and all of Russia that can't figure out why it still exists.

Both Putin and Yeltsin made overtures to join NATO. As a mutual defense organization among superpowers it would make some sense. As an adversarial organization pitting superpowers against one another it is a catastrophe in embryo.

It can't be destroyed soon enough.
 
 
-1 # johnescher 2019-01-16 19:34
omigod, there are some really stupid people in this thread! Nato protects Europe against a neighbor which has shown a clear proclivity for expansion in the past. How does it feel to be as ignorant as Donald Trump if the report is true that Trump thought Nato was a trade organization?
 
 
0 # Rodion Raskolnikov 2019-01-17 07:34
j.e. -- "Nato protects Europe against a neighbor which has shown a clear proclivity for expansion in the past."


Of course over the long haul of history, Russia was invaded by Western European nations several times -- France, England, Germany. There has never been an invasion of Western Europe by Russia. Nato is only the most recent and unified western European aggression against Russia.

Western Euro/Americans always feel they are the victims of OTHER PEOPLE'S aggression. They think the Taliban are going to invade their homelands. They think China is trying to over run them. Euro/Americans are simply paranoid and insane. No one wants to invade America. They just want America to leave them alone. The US has 800-1000 military bases scattered in more than 120 nations around the world. How many bases does Russia have outside of its own territory.

J.E. -- you have been too thoroughly propagandized by US media. Time to get woke.
 
 
0 # Caliban 2019-01-17 14:17
#RR What of the Russian- Soviet expansion into Albania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, East Germany, Poland, Romania and Yugoslavia?

Is there no "proclivity for expansion" there?

So -- Keep NATO. And keep Putin from whispering in the Trumpsters ear.
 
 
-1 # Rodion Raskolnikov 2019-01-17 07:40
J.E. -- I forgot to mention. Nato is going global. It is moving into South America. Columbia is already an associate Nato member and there's now talk of the same for Brazil. Nato is a global military force. It is the modern unified colonialization force. It overthrows government and occupies nations. Afghanistan is occupied by Nato.

I just don't see how anyone can support an organization committed to aggressive and colonialist war.
 
 
0 # laborequalswealth 2019-01-16 13:07
NATO is just another useless sinkhole for the MIC to suck up trillions of working people’s tax dollars.

As usual , the corporate Demos do NOTHING about Trumps rape of the USA, but go bazerk over PEACE.

WTF?????
 
 
0 # johnescher 2019-01-16 19:39
Quoting laborequalswealth:
NATO is just another useless sinkhole for the MIC to suck up trillions of working people’s tax dollars.

As usual , the corporate Demos do NOTHING about Trumps rape of the USA, but go bazerk over PEACE.

WTF?????


You really need an apostrophe in the expression Trumps rape. The lack of an apostrophe between the p and the s seriously erodes your credibility, which already was in bad shape.

But the corporate Pukes and the corporate Dems do appear pretty bad. So is there any chance we caring persons could get together and lobby Nato to curb America's expansionist tendency?
 
 
0 # Anne Frank 2019-01-16 17:49
Barnes and Cooper fan the flames for war, but where is their evidence that Russia has intended any "aggression" for NATO to "deter?" It is the U.S., not Russia, that has military bases in more than 100 other countries and overthrows democratically elected governments as in Ukraine and Honduras and replaces them with murderous fascist dictatorships. It is U.S. aggression, not Russian, that the world needs to deter.
 
 
-1 # johnescher 2019-01-16 19:47
Quoting Anne Frank:
Barnes and Cooper fan the flames for war, but where is their evidence that Russia has intended any "aggression" for NATO to "deter?" It is the U.S., not Russia, that has military bases in more than 100 other countries and overthrows democratically elected governments as in Ukraine and Honduras and replaces them with murderous fascist dictatorships. It is U.S. aggression, not Russian, that the world needs to deter.


I agree with you on the American part. But is Russia really better than the old Soviet Union when it comes to occupation of such places as Hungary and Czechoslovakia, now just Czech. Are the submarines that lurk in Scandinavian waters just a kind of Halloween celebration. Where do you get the idea that Russia is now a benign presence when it clearly wasn't before. And how do you feel about its murder of journalists? You seem to me to have a very naive view. Sorry.

Incidentally, how did you ever pick your name? That has to be your worst decision ever. You don't seem anything like the real Anne Frank. Sorry again.
 
 
-1 # lfeuille 2019-01-16 19:16
I think Ehe world would be more peaceful without NATO. They seem to provoke trouble to justify their existence. It really is unnecessary without an overwhelming threat like WWII.
 
 
0 # johnescher 2019-01-17 06:04
Quoting lfeuille:
I think Ehe world would be more peaceful without NATO. They seem to provoke trouble to justify their existence. It really is unnecessary without an overwhelming threat like WWII.


I think you just don't like NATO because the letters sound to you something like the UN, which you don't like either. Could you please review all the good that both have done in the past almost hundred years before you open your yap further?