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President rips his rival for being “all over the map” while Romney barely fights back.

U.S. President Barack Obama (R) debates with Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney as moderator Bob Schieffer (C) of CBS looks on at the Keith C. and Elaine Johnson Wold Performing Arts Center at Lynn University on October 22, 2012 in Boca Raton, Florida. The focus for the final presidential debate before Election Day on November 6 is foreign policy. (photo: Joe Raedle/Getty Images)
U.S. President Barack Obama (R) debates with Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney as moderator Bob Schieffer (C) of CBS looks on at the Keith C. and Elaine Johnson Wold Performing Arts Center at Lynn University on October 22, 2012 in Boca Raton, Florida. The focus for the final presidential debate before Election Day on November 6 is foreign policy. (photo: Joe Raedle/Getty Images)


Obama Slams Passive Mitt

By Howard Kurtz, The Daily Beast

22 October 12

 

President rips his rival for being “all over the map” while Romney barely fights back. Howard Kurtz on why the Republican played rope-a-dope.

resident Obama accused Mitt Romney of "wrong and reckless leadership that is all over the map" at their final debate Monday night, while Romney took a strikingly sober and subdued approach in response.

Uncorking a half-dozen attacks within minutes as his rival sat across the table in Boca Raton, the president tried to eviscerate Romney on foreign policy. He said the Republican wanted to leave 10,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, had sent mixed signals on withdrawing from Afghanistan and proclaimed America's top enemy to be Russia.

In an obviously rehearsed line, Obama said Romney was peddling "the foreign policy of the 1980s," "the social policy of the 1950s" and "the economic policy of the 1920s."

Romney defended himself in the most measured tones. His only initial swipe was recalling that Obama had told Vladimir Putin that he would have more flexibility in dealing with the Russian leader after the election. And in a not-so-subtle effort to distance himself from the last Republican president, Romney said, "We don't want another Iraq."

This was not the Mitt Romney of the first or second debate. Sounding like a political scientist at times, he had clearly made a calculation that playing it safe and demonstrating world knowledge were sufficient in a race in which many polls are trending his way. He steered clear of anything that might be interpreted as an aggressive call to action.

Romney thus stuck to generalities and platitudes-he would "go after the bad guys," he was worried about a "rising tide of chaos"-without drawing bright lines on what he would do differently than the administration.

In fact, Romney congratulated the president on the killing of Osama bin Laden, said he supported what Obama had done in helping prod Hosni Mubarak from power in Egypt and does not favor military intervention in Syria. He also said he would complete the U.S. pullout from Afghanistan in 2014 and acknowledged that the surge there-Obama's surge-"has been successful."

It was a rope-a-dope strategy in which Romney had his gloves up but left little substantive distance between himself and his rival.

By the half-hour mark, Romney was getting so little traction on foreign policy that he pivoted to the domestic economy and how America is heading on "the road to Greece." Obama followed suit, talking about the need for smaller class sizes.

Even when asked by moderator Bob Schieffer about Obama's charge that his policies were "wrong and reckless," Romney briefly chuckled and said, "I've got a policy for the future." In diplomatic terms, it was as if only one of the contenders had signed a non-aggression pact.

Schieffer essentially let the candidates hijack the debate at times, pushing the conversation toward budgets and business.

Obama set the agenda throughout the evening. On the nuclear threat posed by Iran, the president said sanctions were "crippling their economy" and that Romney has "often talked as if we should take premature military action." Romney engaged in a bit of me-tooism-he called for crippling sanctions five years ago-and said military action would be a "last resort." He rarelh changed expression, as if getting mad, or even annoyed, was against the rules.

Two-thirds of the way into the debate, Romney said Obama had promised to "meet with all world's worst actors" and had conducted an "apology tour." But it was more of a jab than a roundhouse right. And the president parried by calling the apology charge "the biggest whopper" of the campaign.

Just when things were calming down, the president circled back to the mission against Osama, recalling that Romney said it wasn't worth moving "heaven and earth" to get the al-Qaeda leader-and then recalling a girl telling him of her last conversation with her father as the World Trade Center was collapsing. That was a line George W. Bush might have delivered.

It was easy to miss the fact that after a generation of playing defense on national security, the Democrats, at least for now, have the upper hand on the issue.

The challenge for Romney was the actual differences between the two men are slight when it comes to such thorny global issues as Iran and Afghanistan.

The candidates had very different goals heading into Monday night's faceoff. Obama had to defend his four-year record and defuse the inevitable criticism of the administration's handling of the Libya attack. Romney had to present himself as a plausible commander-in-chief in an arena that, given his inexperience, is hardly his greatest strength.

The Boca Raton debate had the potential to be the least influential of the three, in part because of the focus on foreign policy-a decidedly backseat concern in this campaign-and also because of the competition from the baseball playoffs and Monday Night Football. Obama apparently won the debate, but probably did little to change the campaign narrative in the final stretch.


 

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+126 # TrueAmericanPatriot 2012-10-22 19:40
Neocons claimed Mittsy looked "presidential?" HA! Flip-flop-man looked more like "COMMANDER-IN-S .P.L.A.T. (Strategically Pressing Lies & Altering the Truth)!!!"

YOU SLAM-DUNKED HIM, MR. PRESIDENT!!!!

OBAMA - BIDEN 2012!!!! THE CHOICE COULD NOT BE CLEARER!!!!

BE SURE TO FIRE THOSE DO - NOTHING TEATHUG CONGRESMEN!!!!
 
 
-62 # jlstiles 2012-10-22 21:12
And you believe in pro wrestling I guess. The debate is a corporately sponsored affair which cuts out third party voices and frames and arranges the whole debate beforehand with the candidates. Why? Because there is no substantial difference between them. They are both bought and paid for by the same powers. Please wake up and save yourself the heartache.
 
 
+90 # vitobonespur 2012-10-22 22:04
So what, exactly, are you trying to say? Don't bother to vote? Vote twice, once for each candidate? Vote for a write in candidate (which to me is a vote thrown in the trash)?

We're only dealt so many cards, so we
have limited options. I, for one, have no intention of folding my hand. Obviously, you can do what you like.
 
 
-35 # wantrealdemocracy 2012-10-23 07:42
Voting for anyone but the corporate duo is NOT throwing your vote in the trash. Voting for the corporate duo is voting FOR trash. Not voting makes more sense than trying to pick the lesser evil. If we ever hope to have democracy in this nation we must break the two party system. Choosing between Corporate Puppet O over Corporate Puppet R is really no choice at all. They stand for the same things---war, poverty, corruption, austerity and the expansion of our empire and police state.
 
 
+26 # LeeBlack 2012-10-23 10:26
Yes, that's the attitude that gave us 8 years of George W. Bush.
 
 
+7 # Griz 2012-10-23 12:40
Your attitude has clearly given us better candidates over the years...not.
 
 
0 # ericlipps 2012-11-05 13:39
Quoting Griz:
Your attitude has clearly given us better candidates over the years...not.

The time for a third-party presidential run is when such a party has built itself from the ground up, taking House and Senate seats and governorships. Celebrity candidacies (yes, Ralph, I mean you) can only act as spoilers. It wouldn't hurt to eliminatethe Electoral College, too, and put some form of instant-runoff voting in its place.
 
 
+54 # overanddone 2012-10-23 01:51
Your Principles and ideals will mean little on Nov.8 one of these two guys will be president until another discussion in 2016. Change the system? All for it! You'll have 4 years to get that going, it won't happen in the next 2 weeks. If the far right supreme court is your cup of tea vote republican, if not vote democrat, no difference?
 
 
-32 # jlstiles 2012-10-23 07:09
Yes, no difference
 
 
+18 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 07:54
Then you obviously haven't been paying attention.

What do you say to the millions of people who would be affected by romney's plan to destroy Social Security?

Let me guess. "FUCK 'EM".

What do you say to the millions of people who will be affected by romney's war with Iran (don't believe the etch-a-sketch debate last night)?

Let me guess: "FUCK 'EM".

The only people who this election won't matter to are those who's rich daddies will be there to bail them out, and those so personally wealthy they can afford to say "fuck 'em" to the rest of us.

If you can't see the difference you have no business voting at all.
 
 
+16 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 07:25
Perfectly put.
 
 
+32 # BradFromSalem 2012-10-23 04:50
The debate is worse than corporate sponsored. It is owned and managed by the two ruling parties. The objective of the debates being hijacked by the ruling parties is to stifle alternate points of view, no matter what party, Democrat, Republican or any of myriad alternate parties.

The time for your rant will start the day they finish "counting" the ballots in this one. There is a difference between Mitt Romney and Barack Obama. The President is by far not the optimal choice, and probably not the best person on the ballot. But with him in office, America's chances of an economic recovery are much higher than the chances under (occasional) governor Romney. Our standing in the world has improved and continues to remain steady, so we can openly declare ourselves as an American when overseas without feeling ashamed.

By all means vote for an alternate party candidate, but if you live in a "swing" state then do so fully acknowledging the potential impact of a Romney presidency.
 
 
+19 # pegasus4508 2012-10-23 10:08
Spoken well by someone who has actually LEFT the country. AMERICANS have no idea what it is like to be in a foreign country and have people walk up to you on the street to ask what is WRONG with your president (bush). It was even worse after Katrina, then people were asking me why he left those folks to die. My answer was they were black and he did not care.
 
 
+18 # bmiluski 2012-10-23 06:20
Please get off your butt and start a third party from the ground (locally and state wide) up so that it would have some sort of record to run on rather than just rhetoric.
 
 
-10 # jlstiles 2012-10-23 07:14
Yeah, I'll get off my butt and go do it, defeat billions of dollar campaigns all on my own with the help of ignorant RSN and Move-on readers who still believe in this theater. Yeah, let's do it now or else shut up. Unless you can change it right now shut up. That's your disempowering subtext. No, I have made my choice as a voter for someone who reps me, not Obomney. That is my civic duty. Do I have to start a party and go into politics to express this? I guess I am allowed to root for Obama and do nothing but to diss Obomney demands I go into politics. You make a lot of sense.
 
 
+6 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 18:51
Way to start a mass movement!!!

1. Call everyone who disagrees with you ignorant.

2. Claim it's impossible without trying.

AMAZING STRATEGY!!!

This is what the 3rd parties have to offer - the ability to DO NOTHING for four years but bitch on the internet, and then suddenly feel proud of yourselves because you took part in destroying the only people who have any realistic shot at defending the rest of us against the onslaught of right-wing ideology.

It's pure laziness + vanity.
 
 
+4 # GreenBee 2012-10-23 21:16
Quoting jlstiles:
And you believe in pro wrestling I guess. The debate is a corporately sponsored affair which cuts out third party voices and frames and arranges the whole debate beforehand with the candidates. Why? Because there is no substantial difference between them. They are both bought and paid for by the same powers. Please wake up and save yourself the heartache.


As the system is now, yes, both parties have to appease certain "corporate" interests. However the Dems would like to change this system. I recently heard my US Rep Tim Ryan (not Paul Ryan) speak her and I asked him what the Dems would do to get the money out of politics if they had control of Congress and he replied that the first order of business would be to propose a constitutional amendment to mandate public funding of elections. Sherrod Brown, one of my senatprs, is working with MoveOn to sponsor a petition asking for same.

This is a good reason to vote for Democrats - even if you disagree on many of their other positions.
 
 
+36 # Cynthia 2012-10-22 19:48
You've got to be kidding! You should have watched Jill Stein and Rocky Anderson to see a real debate and a real "ripping into". This is another corporate hack job, dog and pony show.
We need a Coalition Party made up of alternate parties so we can change the direction of our country so that our government serves the people instead of the corporations.
 
 
+39 # Billy Bob 2012-10-22 20:34
Stein and Anderson are tearing each other apart for the 2% of the vote they're both fighting for. The only winner of that debate is Mitt Romney.
 
 
-60 # jlstiles 2012-10-22 21:14
Actually, you're the loser of this line of thinking. Basically you are saying to vote for who you think will win or else it is useless. In voting for Romney or Obama, you are actually voting for Obomney as they are indistinguishab le on major policy. Both are complete corporatists and are not your friends. They count on you thinking this very very predictable way so you waste your vote on one of them and pretend there is a choice.
 
 
+29 # James38 2012-10-22 23:47
The only way to get a third party or alternate movement going is to start on the local level, electing local officials, then on to State Congresses, then to US Representatives and Senators, and eventually, after showing consistency and success in policy debates and votes, you might be able to run a viable Presidential candidate.

Otherwise, you are "Doing the Nader", which is what actually gave us the disaster of GW Bush. Politics is the art of the possible, and needs to be played with all eyes on the nuances and the real gains, however small, that may be available.

Obama is far from perfect, but he is far better than Wrongmoney, and we need to avoid another Bushwhacking, which is what Mutt would deliver.

For one thing, close to nothing was said about the looming Global disaster of Climate Change. That is a tribute to the utterly limited and propaganda-dist orted idea of Global Warming reality in the minds of so much of the US Public. Obama was unwilling to bring that vital issue up, because Mutt would have tried, probably successfully, to use the misinformed public to score points. However, we stand a far better chance of actually doing something useful about Climate Change with Obama as President. Wrongmoney seems oblivious to the problem.

And then there is the issue of the Supreme Court. If anyone thinks that playing the purist and voting for some hopeless, however nice, 3rd party, they may bring us another disaster on the court.
 
 
+7 # Phlippinout 2012-10-23 06:11
The supreme court gave you Bush not Nader. Please get the facts right
 
 
+6 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 06:51
Nader's 93,000 votes in Florida were a lot more than the 700 disputed hanging chads.

Nader took several percentage points away from Gore in New Hampshire.

GORE LOST NEW HAMPSHIRE BECAUSE OF NADER.

People forget the fact that Gore would have won WITHOUT Florida if not for Nader taking votes away in New Hampshire.

The Supreme Court had nothing to do with New Hampshire.
 
 
+13 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 08:01
To the thumbs down voters, how many votes did Nader get in Florida?

Did Gore win New Hampshire?

Here's how the count went in New Hampshire:

-BUSH (273,559)
-GORE (266,348)
-NADER (22,198)

Hint #1: 266,348 + 22,198 = 288,546

Hint #2: New Hampshire wasn't even disputed. The Supreme Court had nothing to do with it.

YES, NADER COST GORE THE ELECTION.

P.S. Sorry for quoting actual facts. Don't believe me? Check out this link:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.html
 
 
+1 # Salus Populi 2012-10-25 14:26
One can always cherry pick whatever "actual facts" "prove" one's position. The Workers World, a tiny Trotskyist sect, ran a presidential candidate in the 2000 race as well. She picked up around 1,500 votes, more than twice the number of disputed chads.

And unlike Nader, whom exit polls showed won about half as many Republican votes as Democratic, we can be reasonably sure that virtually all of the WWP votes would have voted for Gore, if their own candidate wasn't running. So the WWP is a "spoiler."

Moreover, Nader wasn't even on the ballot in Tennessee, Gore's home state; Gore managed to lose that as well. Had he won the people over whom he represented in the Senate, he would likewise have won without Florida, since Tennessee has a greater population than New Hampshire.

Then there is Arkansas, the immensely popular Bill Clinton's home state, which also went for Bush. Why? Well, maybe it had something to do with the Gore campaign's, still smarting from Monica, deciding to distance themselves from Clinton, and decline his offer to be an active campaigner for Gore.

And of course, when the media sponsored a complete recount, it showed that in every count except the one Gore chose to fight on, he would have won Florida as well.

Finally, there is the small matter of the one-sided media coverage, which let Bush lie without consequence, and called Gore a liar after distorting his speeches.

In fact, Gore cost Gore the election; that and a corrupted SCOTUS.
 
 
-2 # James38 2012-10-23 21:13
Phillippin, my facts are dead on. As Billy Bob states, Nader cost Gore the Election. The Whackjobs in the Supremos were an afterthought. They put a few more nails in Gore's coffin, but Nader was the assassin.

If you look up the exit polls from Florida you will discover the percentages of responses. Some who voted for Nader would not have voted at all had he not run. Others would have voted for Bush. However, the largest number by far would have voted for Gore, and simple math shows that number would have given Gore the State by a large margin.

I have no idea what "facts" you think you are talking about, but the ones that don't just exist in your head are the ones we need to consider. Look it up, be informed.
 
 
+6 # genierae 2012-10-23 07:16
James38, instead of trying unsucessfully to create a 3rd party, it would be much more sensible to reform the Democratic Party from the ground up. Start at the local and state levels, and work up to national. This could really work, if we recruited talented, honest young people to run for local office.
 
 
-1 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 08:06
You're going to anner the current wave of 3rd party attackers and republican plants if you keep insisting on facts. Thank you anyway.
 
 
+3 # Griz 2012-10-23 12:46
The Tea Party "reformed" the Repubs into what they are today: insane. With a reform of the Dems perhaps we can get a sane party.
 
 
+3 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 13:59
I agree to an extent. The t-party isn't a separate party. It's a faction within the repug party itself. It was completely founded and funded by the right-wing repugs who thought they were compromising too much with the left.

What it did is give so called "moderate" repugs a viable threat, i.e. PRIMARY from the far right.

The Democratic Party hasn't had the widespread participation among the far left, so the Democratic Party has chosen to ignore them as well. If far lefties (I AM one by the way, it's not an insult) were to threaten conservative Democrats with competitive primary, you'd see the Democratic Party move FAR to the left of where it is now.

I would have been all for Stein or Anderson competing against the President in a primary. I was talking about this 3 years ago! Nobody listened. This is why stein and anderson are fighting for the 2% of the electorate who actually plan to vote for them regardless of the consequences to the other 300 million of us, and it's also why Obama is statistically tied in New Hampshire (a liberal state that can't ever get behind a Democratic candidate).
 
 
+1 # James38 2012-10-23 21:34
For a fascinating look at the authoritarian trend of the Republican Party, read "Conservatives Without Conscience" by John Dean, former Chief Counsel for Nixon. He has gone through quite a transformation, and the book is very penetrating.

One surprise for me is that this is not the first time the Republican Party has had such a paroxysm of foolishness.
 
 
-1 # James38 2012-10-23 21:25
Genierae, I quite agree with you. I was speaking to those who are involved in the third party idea, and outlined a path they could follow to have some success without endangering the entire Nation. They need to be very careful that their zeal does not blind them to the reality of the results of their actions.

I am disgusted with Nader for several reasons, among which is that the Corvair was a very good car for its time. I would happily drive one now if I could find one.

But the biggest screw-up of Nader is that he is intelligent enough to have known he could throw the election to Bush, and his ego was so bloated he just didn't care. That to me is grotesque irresponsibilit y, and all presidential candidacies of third party figureheads come with the same danger to some degree. If they are actually liberal, they need to make it part of the process to make their point, gather their followers and thank them, and then tell their supporters to vote for the realistic candidate with the best liberal potential. To do otherwise is foolish in the extreme.
 
 
-20 # jlstiles 2012-10-23 07:17
No, what gave us Bush was the fact Gore, being a mainstream democrat under the neo-liberal Clinton and essentially identical to Bush, was not able to mount any debate worthwhile, especially since he and Bush arranged the debates beforehand to orchestrate this farce of an election. Bush one by design and with the complicity of both.
 
 
+16 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 08:05
The fact that you think Gore and Bush were identical is an example of why your logic hasn't gotten anywhere in this thread. There's so much wrong with that statement that there's no point in educating you.
 
 
-2 # James38 2012-10-23 21:38
Stiles is comical in his obdurate ignorance. An example of a mind working only on rock-solid programming. As with the far right, it is equivalent to Religious Fanaticism in source and blindness.
 
 
+31 # Professorjane Gilgun 2012-10-23 06:03
Opinions such as yours scare me. We have know what Obama stands for. We have no idea what Romney stands for. If Obama had flip flopped as often as Romney had, imagine what the Republican machine would have made of that. Vote for Romney will be a continuation of the Bush years. What thinking person wants that? What fair-minded person wants that? We are a democracy, for God's sake.
 
 
-25 # jlstiles 2012-10-23 07:20
Yeah, we know Obama has stood for: The NDAA, Monsanto controlling our food, endless war, drones, threatening Iran for no reason, kissing Israel's ass, privatizing education, protecting banks and torturers and squashing whistle blowers at an unprecedented level. This should be call not to vote for Obomney but to vote third party
 
 
+15 # Cassandra2012 2012-10-23 09:06
Rombot stands for the $50,000 A PLATE billionaires who don't even seem to know that mid-level urban teachers get $50,000 A YEAR. (And don't give a rat's.. a out that disparity either!
 
 
+1 # SMoonz 2012-10-24 13:35
Obama had a $50,000 fundraiser back in July in Minneapolis...
 
 
+6 # X Dane 2012-10-23 17:29
Professorjane.
Sorry....We WERE a democracy. Since NO politicians can run for office without money, they are ALL beholden to their donors.

Since Citizens United our elections are simply AUCTIONS and the ones with the most wealthy donors "WINS" whichever office they are running for.

The Supreme Court...that is... the 4 reactionaries ruined the country. It was certainly not good before...but since their AWFUL decision, it is insanity. Very few people have any respect for The Court anymore....and that is BAD.

We HAVE to re-elect Obama and try to get some REAL JUDGES onto the Supreme Court, in order for our CITIZENS to get fair treatment in the court. The present court is strictly FOR big business.
 
 
+9 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 07:24
My 5-year-old daughter thought that if she wished really really hard Santa would give her a REAL LIVE purple and pink spotted unicorn for Christmas last year. I plan on repeating this anecdote whenever necessary, so get used to it. It's the perfect analogy for your logic.

The polls tell me every day how well other candidates are doing. Do you pay any attention to them? Or are you just fantasizing about unicorns?
 
 
-53 # ecoforestree 2012-10-23 07:26
Yes Romney won and will be President.

Romney kept his cool,

Ahead in the polls, all Romney had to do was stay on track... and he did. Obama is obviously flustered and knows he's going down for the count. Barack will likely end up in prison for war crimes and for massive corruption within his administration, even more likely if the Republicans win both houses of Congress, Obama knows it and is sweating bullets. Obama tried for a knock-out punch, but Romney just played rope-a-dope. And Obama is the dope, who is not as smart as he thought he was. He's finally realizing that you can fool some of the people some of the time and most of the people most of the time, BUT YOU CAN'T FOOL ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME. Obama tried to come out tough, but fizzled when he needed to present any kind of vision for the future. With a more level playing field of a one-on-one debate and missing his teleprompter, Obama's bully tactics and angry expression made clear that he is not a man of peace. Romney was the only one who spoke for peace and did so eloquently. Romney looked Presidential. Obama looked and sounded like a street thug, beating up on the world's poor and bragging about killing people. Romney will make a good President because he has a heart and sincerity and knows how to work cooperatively with people. Good riddance to Obama, the war criminal, flim-flam artist and bankster puppet.
 
 
+15 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 08:07
I think you and jlstiles are working for the same team.
 
 
+19 # Cassandra2012 2012-10-23 09:08
Romney dithered, and fluttered his eyelids and kept his vacuous stare at all times while saying nothing of substance. Just kept repeating 'talking points' #1, #2,#3 etc. that said little or nothing.
 
 
+15 # Walhalla 2012-10-23 09:09
ecoforestree, where were you when the REAL DEBATE took place on 10/23/2012, 9.00 ET??? Hanging out at Faux News?
 
 
+6 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 14:01
I think he was preparing to do damage control, like all right-wingers.
 
 
+14 # Ma Tsu 2012-10-22 21:38
In the presidential debates, opinions will vary as to the winner and loser, but we would be well served to remember that the foundation of these debates, indeed their precondition, is the hierarchy of values from which we as a nation take inspiration and from which our leaders produce legislation, values left unmentioned and unconsidered in deference to sloganeering and grandstanding, meaning it is again we, the people, who are the biggest losers in yet another round of dime-store presidential debates.
We of the National Optimists Party say that there are too many substantive and portentous issues at hand for these debates to be the debased media circus they have become and, naturally enough, are wholly in favor of your suggestion to open the political process to alternative parties.
 
 
-15 # ecoforestree 2012-10-23 07:25
Been there. Tried doing that. It's just like herding cats! Ain't gonna happen. Too many people working to save their egosystems.
 
 
+103 # HerbR 2012-10-22 19:51
No matter how Romney sounded, a "Political Scientist" he was not being. But, he was being one of my former students in Pol.Sci 101, trying for a passing midterm grade. He did not make that grade.
 
 
+69 # vitobonespur 2012-10-22 22:07
I thought Romney looked like an imbecile. It almost looked like he was waiting for someone to explain to him what the President was saying.
 
 
+24 # bingers 2012-10-23 04:54
Amen, he was completely lost at sea.
 
 
+10 # vicnada 2012-10-23 06:03
And where would Romney keep his armies? ...in his sleevies.
 
 
+23 # Eldon J. Bloedorn 2012-10-23 02:25
My adition to your missive is much like how I commented about Paul Ryan's "body language," vice presidential debate. He, Ryan seemed to want to drink lots of water in a room that was while appearing to be adequately cool, "seemed to be getting too hot." I watched Romney's body language. Why was he "swallowing" so much when in fact there was no meal in front of him and he drank no water? As with ly'n Ryan, Romney's subconscious was saying, "you know, I rather be out of here, gone fishing." Anyone else see Romney trying to swallow a meal he did not eat?
 
 
+8 # Eldon J. Bloedorn 2012-10-23 02:42
Think Romney is essentially a moderate. Look at his crafted medical care plan for his former constituents, Mass. His previous comment stated several months ago, "man is responsible for some part of global warming." Rush L. previously tried to deck Romney shortly after Romney made this comment by saying in response to Romney's belief, "he is not presidential material." The problem that the GOP has to deal with with Romney. There is a concrete wall with a GOP 3 inch hole in it. Romney is a 4 inch square hardwood block of wood. The Republican Party keeps trying "whack Romney" with a sledge hammer, drive him thru that hole. Forever trying to get Romney to "fit the GOP image." That 3 inch round hole. Last night, "Romney did not fit" that hole no matter how hard the Republicans try to drive Romney thru that concrete hole in the wall. I say to Romney what I say to the fat neighbor lady who is off to the beauty parlour. "Good luck to ya!"
 
 
+21 # bmiluski 2012-10-23 06:25
How can you tell what he is. He's flip-flopped so many times. I think he's just someone out to line his and his pal's pockets at our expense.
 
 
+10 # Cassandra2012 2012-10-23 09:10
And just after power, at all costs.
 
 
+31 # Eldon J. Bloedorn 2012-10-23 02:58
When Romney was patting himself on the back for (his) "marvelous strides in Mass. school academics," Obama said, "that happened 10 years before you took office." My God, did you see the look on Romney's face? He, Romney, totally humiliated himself. Was no able to recover. But, that is how cremation works.
 
 
+90 # Barbara K 2012-10-22 19:53
Wow, the President nailed it tonight. Even the Rs and Karl Rove are unhappy with Romneyhood. Romney is not accustomed to dealing with truth and facts and that was very apparent tonight. I kept an eye on Live Fact Check while watching the debate. Here is the link if anyone wants to check it out:

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/10/22/1065731/thinkprogress-liveblogs-the-final-presidential-debate/

OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
VOTE STRAIGHT DEMOCRATIC, we have many states that need cleaning out too.
 
 
-52 # jlstiles 2012-10-22 21:14
Pro wrestling, except you believe it is real
 
 
+20 # James38 2012-10-22 23:48
Try thinking. Being a cute one-trick pony isn't winning you any votes.
 
 
-23 # jlstiles 2012-10-23 07:23
The more votes I lose from this sheepish Obama crowd of losers, the better. You guys haven't looked at Obama's policy, which is identical to Romney. Obomney campaign is a one ticket race bought and paid for already and so are the debates which are run by a private corporately sponsored commission. The election is a theater pretended to make you sheep think we have a choice in voting dem or republican. You watch the debate like it is a real debate when it has been pre-arranged by both candidates and the commission just like a pro wrestling match. So, yeah, you believe in pro wrestling.
 
 
+10 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 08:08
What you meant to say was, "the more votes I divert from Obama to get Mitt elected, the better".
 
 
+8 # Barbara K 2012-10-23 11:52
jstiles: Just a warning, you have an acute case of Romnesia. Lucky for you it is covered under Obamacare. Better get it checked out.
 
 
+7 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 14:02
The only thing that could cure Romnesia is a second term for the President.
 
 
0 # ABen 2012-10-24 09:25
jlstiles; perhaps you should try holding your breath and stomping your feet until things change. Go ahead--make us proud of you!
 
 
+20 # guyachs 2012-10-23 06:09
If romney gets to appoint supreme court judges, you'll know it's real. There is a difference.
 
 
+10 # guyachs 2012-10-23 06:10
If romney gets to appoint supreme court judges, you'll know it's real.
 
 
+94 # Billy Bob 2012-10-22 19:54
Naturally, the AP/Yahoo are trying to pretend it's still up in the air about who won tonight. CBS said the President won by 30 points. They only claimed Twittens won the 1st debate by 24, and Yahoo was immediately all over that, claiming Twit had obviously won.

It's hard however, to spin tonight's debate as anything other than a win for the President.

I think Twittens was rope-a-doped by the 1st debate. Tonight we saw what a dope he was.

Also, it amazes me how often the former governor of the Caymen Islands thinks he can get away with blatantly changing his mind on the fly. He's like a used car salesman,

"Hey! If you don't like that, what about this?! No? Well, can I interest you in this instead?! I'll throw in rust protection! No? What about if we try this?!?"

The great thing about Twit is that if you don't like what he has to say, what 2 minutes and he'll take the opposite stance. The only time we REALLY know what he thinks is when he thinks the cameras are off and he's with his own (e.g. the 47% remarks).
 
 
+47 # Barkingcarpet 2012-10-22 19:59
Bah, Romney would be a disaster, Obama is a bit better, and neither will create or leave a livable future.
Listen to rocky anderson and Jill stein debating the same questions, and hear some real responses. We need serious change and sane policy based within Nature and diverse systems, and not based on profit and empire. http://www.democracynow.org/live_stream/debate_2012_1022?fb_action_ids=3885147203348&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_ref=.UIXxvImWlHE.like&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582

Of course. Unless we demand serious and real change, we are toast. Nature IS tanking now. Period. Sure, get Obama in office, and then sharpen our damn pitchforks and get involved. Shame on all of us. We are leaving a mess on our watch.
 
 
+20 # bingers 2012-10-23 04:59
Look, I like and admire Rocky Anderson. He's great, but a vote for him is a vote for Romney and unless you live in an utterly red or blue state don't even consider voting for a 3rd party candidate. Besides, even if a 3rd party candidate won, what do you, in your wildest dreams, think he could do with the entire congress against him.
 
 
+58 # HerbR 2012-10-22 20:06
Go Obama, Go !!
 
 
-30 # Dion Giles 2012-10-22 20:16
The narrative doesn't seem to support the heading. Romney appears to have damped the fears that he would be a dangerous tool of Israel and the war hawks. If anything, the debate as described by Kurtz looks like a staged waltz in which the critical issues are avoided.
 
 
+55 # Billy Bob 2012-10-22 20:31
I don't see how changing his opinion depending on who he thinks is listening will "dampen fears". The idea of unveiling brand new foreign policy 2 weeks before the election seems pretty unstable to me - especially when it's fundamentally at odds with the foreign policy claims you've made during the previous year.
 
 
-25 # Dion Giles 2012-10-22 20:54
What Romney said in the debate, what he has said in the campaign and what all the signs are that he and his owners really intend are different things. In the debate he'll have dampened fears of another George W Bush or John "Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran" Mc Cain. Not my fears, not Billy Bob's, but the fears of maybe millions of swinging voters. His performance has been cleverly planned, and not (from Howard Kurtz's report) foiled by Obama.
 
 
+31 # Ray Kondrasuk 2012-10-22 20:22
The FOX News take is that Romney's strategy was to appear calm and "presidential", or so maintained Chris Wallace.

Obama said repeatedly that he would not allow Iran to have a "nuclear program"; he should have inserted "weapons" as he did too seldom. Iran, after all, is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-proliferati on Treaty (NPT) and has the right to low-enrich uranium for peaceful purposes. Though the IAEA finds no evidence of weaponization and monitors sites closely, there is enough evasive foot-dragging and murky Iranian responses to generate suspicion.

Romney proposed bringing Ahmadinejad to trial for threats of genocide (read: nuking Israel). But wouldn't Ahmadinejad therefore begin by eliminating the 20,000 or so Iranian Jews, giving Israel a heads-up?

And I expected it to come from Mittens, but it was Barack who used the phrase "wipe from the map" about Iran's supposed designs on Israel, stemming from the October 25, 2005 Ahmadinejad
"mythical Holocaust" speech in Tehran that was poorly translated.

The most accurate translation seems to be "The regime occupying Jerusalem shall vanish from the pages of time/history";
the Farsi words for "wipe/eliminate " and "Israel" and "map/face of the earth" simply do not appear in Ahmadinejad's declaration.

A lengthy, very scholarly article from 2007 about the "wipe Israel" original speech:

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/norouzi.php?articleid=11025
 
 
+6 # handmjones 2012-10-23 04:19
If it were us who lacked the essential weapon you would want our regime to sign the Treaty and then secretly develop a bomb and a delivery system.
 
 
+16 # handmjones 2012-10-23 04:23
Did I miss it in this article or did the author fail to mention Romney's mention of Syria as Iran's opening to the Sea?
 
 
+14 # Ray Kondrasuk 2012-10-23 06:58
Handy,

We'll just have to suspect that Mitten's knowledge of geography comes from FOX News
graphics.
 
 
+34 # Billy Bob 2012-10-22 20:27
I'd like to remind the 3rd partiers who will no doubt attack soon that one of the reasons Obama is ahead in the polls is that he seems "strong" on national defense. All of the more liberal candidates are easily labelled by the press and the general public as being "weak". This translates into a lack of votes - as the lack of support for the 3rd party candidates clearly testifies.

In order to enact a liberal/progres sive agenda you have to meet the voters half way. You can't say, "If Americans weren't all a bunch of stupid assholes they'd vote for me". Yet, that's essentially the attitude of many of the "vote 3rd party just because" commenters. If we point out their lack of strategic foresight we're met with insults to our intelligence.

The fact is that being absolutely and immovably liberal on certain issues is a good way to turn away the votes of 90% of the electorate. The liberal 3rd party candidates being touted couldn't stand up to the scrutiny of mass media.

CONT.
 
 
+40 # Billy Bob 2012-10-22 20:28
CONT.

About the myth that there's now substantial difference between the President and the Cayman Islands mascott:

President Obama is being attacked for promising to close down Guantanamo, but not standing up to the repugs who went ape-shit over the suggestion.

Romney said he wants to DOUBLE Guantanamo's capacity.

Obama signed the repug-written NDAA. Of course it's easy to forget that it was attached to the entire defense budget and it's clear the repugs were going to hold the defense budget hostage until they got that signiture. It was a win win for them. If he hadn't signed it, he'd be way behind in the polls today - competing against headlines saying, "Obama hates the troops and doesn't want them to be protected against al quaida". Don't pretend this wouldn't have been the result. You know the President's nuts were in a vice. Any Democratic President who refused to pay for the defense budget would be in serious trouble.

We're told by 3rd partiers that "Obama hates peace" because he's only ended one of the two wars he promised to end. The other won't end until 2014.

Twittens, on the other hand, says the President is "projecting weakness" and should "show more strength" against Iran and Syria. Of course the ONLY WAY HE COULD "show more strength" would be to bomb the hell out of them and start WWIII.

CONT.
 
 
+21 # Billy Bob 2012-10-22 20:38
The myth that there's "no" substantial difference. Not "now".

...and no it wasn't a Freudian slip. Although I clearly left myself open to that attack!
 
 
-9 # SMoonz 2012-10-23 00:02
Wrong. The biggest problem with the NDAA is the clause on Indefinite Detention. That section in the NDAA itself was not originally included. The Obama Administration specifically was adamant that indefinite detention of citizens needed to be included if the Obama was to sign it.

This is a known fact as stated on the Senate floor by Democrat Senator Carl Levin. (You can find the CSPAN video of this here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DNDHbT44cY )

See the problem? Now the Indefinite Detention clause, which includes American Citizens, has been declared Unconstitutiona l but guess what? Obama has fought to keep it as part of the NDAA regardless of what anyone says. (Here is the link as it appeared on RSN http://readersupportednews.org/news-section2/316-20/13530-focus-government-files-emergency-appeal-of-ndaa-decision

So tell me. Is Obama innocent?
 
 
+6 # bingers 2012-10-23 05:03
Yes, that clause does not apply to Americans who are specifically exempted in the law.
 
 
-4 # SMoonz 2012-10-23 12:51
It may seem that way but the language is vague.

Example: Section 1021, “Nothing in this section shall be construed to affect existing law or authorities relating to the detention of United States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States, or any other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.” So basically, if you are captured or detained outside of the U.S. you are fair game.

Section 1022 states the following about being detained “in military custody pending disposition under the law of war.” So as Salon.com points out "this section does not exempt U.S citizens from the presidential power of military detention: only from the requirement of military detention."

As you can see the clause does apply to Americans.
 
 
+40 # Billy Bob 2012-10-22 20:28
CONT.

Twittens, on the other hand, says the President is "projecting weakness" and should "show more strength" against Iran and Syria. Of course the ONLY WAY HE COULD "show more strength" would be to bomb the hell out of them and start WWIII.

When this is brought up, the 3rd partiers will say, "yeah, but Obama wants to do the same"...

REALLY? Well then why hasn't he done it during his 4 years in office while repugs BEGGED him to. McCain even made up a Beach Boys song about bombing Iran back in 2008 and said he didn't care if we remained in Afghanistan for the 1,000 years.

Easily forgotten, huh?

None of what I said even covers economic / social policy. If you think there's no difference between a candidate who wants to honor the committment to Social Security and Medicare and one who wants to replace them with "vouchers", you're clearly not arguing in good faith, or cherry picking bits of information that further your agenda.
 
 
+22 # Art947 2012-10-23 04:23
Way to go Billy Bob! You have described the picture perfectly!

For those who think that a 3rd Party candidate is a better choice, please remember this: Just having an "independent" at the top of the ballot does NO good. It is necessary to build a strong base to support the policies that this individual proposes. Unfortunately the Democrats did NOT provide the President with a strong base when he came into office. The DINOs ("blue-dogs") helped the reactionaries more than they did the President. Although we see little "digs" at the repugnicans who have waged war on America by providing allegiance to Grover Norquist, little has been done to make them pay for being traitors to the USA.
 
 
+9 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 07:14
One thing the 3rd partiers won't face is the fact that MASS PROTEST and MASS STRIKES are our tools for getting a liberal agenda forced into the debate.

----------
The uncompromising left reply to that is that:

1. Many many people are already protesting and it's not being recognized. So what good is it?

2. Once Obama is elected, what difference does it make to him what the rest of us think?
----------

What that logic fails to realize is the fact that historically current protests are ANYTHING BUT mass movements. The civil rights movement was FORCED on politicians who HATED BEING FORCED to do something about it. NONE of them wanted to stick their neck out for it. BUT IT WOULDN'T GO AWAY.

The same happened with the anti-war movement. If not for that, we'd still be in Vietnam today. If not for mass protest on a scale we can't ever seem to muster today, women would STILL not be able to vote.

Third party logic falls flat on it's face when dealing with the fact that women COULD NOT VOTE, yet forced an agenda that FORCED politicians to allow them to vote. They didn't need a 3rd party to do it. They needed a mass protest that wouldn't go away.

CONT.
 
 
+9 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 07:14
CONT.

When there's a mass protest for the environment something serious will get done. Until then, it's all fantasy.

When there's another mass peace movement something serious will get done. Until then, it's all fantasy.

When there's a mass movement to restore our Constitutional rights something will get done...

eh.. you get the picture.

-------------

We don't need to threaten the Democratic Party with splitting our own vote and potentially punishing ourselves "to get our way". Suicide never accomplishes anything.

We need to FORCE THEIR HAND AFTER THE ELECTION IS OVER.

Unfortunately, this requires millions of people to:

1. agree about something

2. GET OFF THEIR ASSES to do something AWAY FROM THEIR COMPUTERS about it.
 
 
-6 # BradFromSalem 2012-10-23 05:05
BB,

Great synopsis. One nitpick complaint, and its not just you but numerous people here and elsewhere use the term 3rd Party. That unfairly lumps all alternative parties into a undefined lump. It also helps to maintain the image that the Republicans and Democrats are the default choices for any office. Lastly, using the term 3rd Party not only assigns all alternative ideas as not being mainstream, it reinforces the idea that we have a two party "system", when in fact, constitutionall y we have a no party system.
 
 
+5 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 06:56
We don't have a two-party system. We have an ELECTORAL PROCESS. This process is winner-take-all and leaves no room for an automatic runoff. THAT is the "system". And that system punishes either faction (left or right) for splitting its vote. No matter how many left-wing parties we support, Romney will still get over 45% of the vote. What's 55% divided by 10?

By 100?

Wait, maybe if we have THOUSANDS of left-wing parties, then what????

Do we get more than 45% of the vote THEN?
 
 
+5 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 07:02
Sorry to jump all over you about that subject. Thank you for the compliment. I'm just touchy about the 3rd-25th party subject, especially since it's only the left who is seriously threatened by it.

What we need is a Constitutional amendment to have a SINGLE JUNGLE PRIMARY with ALL candidates from all parties.

The jungle primary is followed by an automatic runoff between the top two vote getters.

THAT will allow hundreds of parties. Until then, we will ALWAYS have a MAXIMUM of 2 viable parties. One of them doesn't have to be the Democratic Party. I don't think the Greens will replace them within the next 2 weeks however.
 
 
+4 # BradFromSalem 2012-10-23 07:56
BB,

No problem. I can take it, my wife is Italian! (that ought to stir up some s--t!)

I agree with your assesment that what we have is an Electoral Process, which of course is not dependent on two parties. The Constitution does provide for a mechanism where the House of Representatives votes when the Electoral College does not select a winner. Essentially a more parliamentary fall back position. So while I agree with your name, I still maintain the process of selecting a President is not party based.
All that being said, the entire election process needs to be rexamined and reinvented. The country is a tad bigger than it was in the 18th Century. I noted on a previous post some of my ideas regarding the election process changes that are needed. But without a Constitutional amendment, the first steps would be to federalize the Primary process, make hidden corporate donations illegal, limit the amount of corporate donations. Provide free TV time and access to any debates to all viable candidates. To prevent too many candidates, impose consistent requirements to get on the ballot applicable to all candidates.

That all can be done with just a few laws. Now go and find some politicians that would support even that.
 
 
+25 # moreover 2012-10-22 20:33
Seems to me Romney's goal was to assuage concerns that he's a war monger ready to drag the US into two or three more wars. By essentially agreeing with the Obama administration' s approach to foreign policy he probably achieved that - if at the cost of sounding like a pupil.
 
 
+31 # Cdesignpdx 2012-10-22 20:38
Romney, Note to Self: Bayonete count?

You rock Obama!
Vote! & donate whatever you can.
 
 
+47 # cgberling 2012-10-22 20:42
Romney once again praised the fact that he could get along with his Mass. legislkature which was 87% Democratic, and his state was high up on education, etc. Doesn't anyone else think that the reason Mass. got it all done was BECAUSE it was 87% Democratic. Seems obvious to me. Poor Barry had the Repubs. 100% against all thru his 4 years. Slam dunk!!
 
 
+15 # bingers 2012-10-23 05:05
Not only that, but he vetoed over 800 bills and was overridden 82% of the time.
 
 
+51 # angelfish 2012-10-22 20:49
Romney is a 17th Century man caught in a 21st Century World. He is Clueless and adrift when confronted by Facts. He is also a consummate Liar. See The New York Time, November 18, 2008. That is when he said they should "Let Detroit go Bankrupt". Despite ALL his money, HE is the one who is Bankrupt, morally, if not financially! Never, EVER vote ReTHUGlican!
 
 
+38 # TurboKitty 2012-10-22 20:50
I have to wonder how many persona's Moldable Mitt has at this point ...
 
 
+13 # bingers 2012-10-23 05:08
Quoting TurboKitty:
I have to wonder how many persona's Moldable Mitt has at this point ...


Maybe that's why Ann is worried about his mental well being. It must be hell living with someone with that many split personalities in one person. Maybe that's why he can't remember which lie he told and when he told it.
 
 
+9 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 07:17
"Moldable Mitt"

I LOVE it!
 
 
+2 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 14:08
He sounds like an anatomically incorrect action figure. Come to think of it, he looks like one too.

Maybe that's what ann "I-want-a-horse y" Romney was refering to when she said we need to "unzip" him to see the "real" mitt.
 
 
+41 # Walhalla 2012-10-22 21:01
Watching Hannity clueing Palin and Rubio on Fox News tonight ....confirmed my take on the final Debate: Obama won, he was awesome, he was superior - he is the right and only choice for the future survival of this great country and he should be re-elected. Go Obama.
 
 
+13 # Bill Clements 2012-10-22 21:41
This was a deliberate Romney strategy tonight and the calculation, with polls continuing to trend in his favor, was that it would be enough to win the election. We'll have to see on Nov 6th.
 
 
+44 # X Dane 2012-10-22 21:43
Obama WAS the PRESIDENT tonight, calm and measured, but in command of the subject, and setting Romney straight, again, and again, and again.

The best was after Romney was whining that we did not have more ships than we did in 1916.
Obama calmly countered, Obviously The Governor doesn't know how our military works. We also don't have more horses and bayonets. We have these large ships, aircraft carriers, where planes land, and ships that go underwater, Nuclear Submarines.

Now THAT was a ZINGER. I thought Romney was going to fire off a lot of zingers in these debates? I am sure this was a planned zinger, but it came totally naturally and at the tight time and place in this debate. It was simply priceless.

Romney was....and looked lame. He had this sick little smile, when Obama spoke. Thank god Obama looked serious and listened intently when Romney spoke,..... and then he countered very well, shooting down Romney.
Continued
 
 
+12 # bingers 2012-10-23 05:14
Also, one nuclear submarine has more destructive power than our entire navy did in the whole war.

The man is a moron. The one good (i.e. moneymaking) idea he ever had was off shoring jobs. Nothing else in his entire life has anything worthwhile. Now, shipping jobs to slave labor countries is good only in the arena of moneymaking for yourself and is morally and ethically unsupportable.
 
 
+4 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 14:10
I'm sorry but I can't even give him that much credit. He started out as a multi-millionai re. When you start out inches away from home plate you shouldn't brag about making it there.
 
 
+40 # BeaDeeBunker 2012-10-22 21:48
"Obama Slams Passive Mitt"

Not according to the pias bundits!! (misspellings intentional)
I was so sick of hearing Romney perform on his trampoline, flipping and flopping, and going on, that I almost flipped out myself. Instead I flipped to the ballgame for a while and had a much better viewing experience.

At one point, when Romney said, in his response to the president, exactly what the president had just said in his answer to the question posed by the moderator, I almost threw a brick into my TV!

Being a creative person, I quickly wrote what should have been President Obama's retort..."I see that you agree with my actions as president completely; so Governor, I can count on your vote in November, correct! I thank you for your support, and the American people thank you too."
 
 
+9 # SMoonz 2012-10-23 00:07
"Being a creative person, I quickly wrote what should have been President Obama's retort..."I see that you agree with my actions as president completely; so Governor, I can count on your vote in November, correct! I thank you for your support, and the American people thank you too."

You're so humble.
 
 
+3 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 06:58
Being "humble" sure helped in that first debate, huh?
 
 
+16 # X Dane 2012-10-23 00:29
BeaDeeBunker.
I love your "Obama" answer BeeDee, I think if he had actually said what you suggested, Romney would have croaked.
 
 
+7 # bingers 2012-10-23 05:15
Too cool. I also wish he had said that. 8^)
 
 
+26 # X Dane 2012-10-22 22:11
continued.
Now THAT said. It was shocking that Bob Shieffer did not bring up Europe, South America, or the BRIC countries....Br azil, Russia, India and China!!

Instead it was constantly Israel, Israel, Israel.
Israel maybe important, but it is crazy to not discuss the other countries, which are moving ahead rapidly. How do we intend to interact with them? And how do we compete with them?

We certainly will not be able to compete if we keep slashing our spending on education, and we also MUST invest in research and development. That has always been our strength.

So important opportunities were missed to make our citizens understand the importance of the countries I mentioned. We really are NOT the center of the world, important...yes but not the beginning and end.
 
 
-9 # indian weaver 2012-10-23 04:04
Bob Schieffer is an old dinosaur and needs to be put to pasture. He's not qualified to be a news person anymore, totally out of touch, an old man who has no guts, no insight, a sold out corporate whore. Laugable that such a dolt would try to deal with today, much less guide a debate.
 
 
+12 # bingers 2012-10-23 05:17
And the last time he did this, being an old friend of the Bush family, he stacked the deck for Dumbya.
 
 
+13 # panhead49 2012-10-23 05:47
Quoting indian weaver:
Bob Schieffer is an old dinosaur and needs to be put to pasture. He's not qualified to be a news person anymore, totally out of touch, an old man who has no guts, no insight, a sold out corporate whore. Laugable that such a dolt would try to deal with today, much less guide a debate.


I keep looking for John McCain to show up - it's pretty hard to find Schieffer on the boob tube w/o McCain setting there too. He did a decent job of moderating - his Sunday show has become unwatchable.

Didn't decide whether to watch or not until the last minute (I've already voted absentee) - glad I watched, nice to see the Prez back in fighting form.
 
 
+5 # MainStreetMentor 2012-10-23 00:05
Obama remains the lesser of two evils - and I'm going to vote for him, but he is no longer the shining star I once thought him to be. He DID do well in this debate - but it may have been too little, too late.
 
 
+14 # bingers 2012-10-23 05:20
In nearly all cases, the things about Obama you don't like were forced upon him by an obstructionist congress and the reality that he had to work with them or get nothing done at all.

However, appointing Summers and Geithner was a really bad choice.
 
 
+10 # MainStreetMentor 2012-10-23 07:08
Yes, I agree, and was/am aware of the conditions you stated - Geithner, in my opinion, is STILL working for the moguls of Wall Street - and Obama's shortcoming: 1. He appointed Geithner; 2. He has become influenced by Geithners' counsel to the point of errant decisions.
 
 
+4 # Activista 2012-10-23 00:21
It looked that the debate scenario/questi on was Made in Israel. did not hear ONE question form Schieffer that was not War Propaganda - sickening. Assad killed 30 000 "civilians" in Syria? So why Syrian people/army is defending their country and Assad. It is over one year and Assad is still in power - maybe NATO bombs will "liberate" Syrian people.
Iran is 4 years closer to the atomic bomb?
And two psychos pretending to be presidential were competing who is capable to "take out" - KILL more.
Assad will not go away - has support of Syria people, in Libya is Benghazi tribe genociding Qaddafi tribe - Hillary boy Prime Minister is out.
Iran is being decimated by the sanction - Obama proudly declares that it export less oil than during US friend Saddam/Reagan war on Iran (million died).
Tell me ONE USrael liberated country where people are better off than before the occupation/invasion/bombing.
Watching CBS "experts" my guess is that Romney "wins" on October 6, wile USA is being destroyed by militarism. It is militarism stupid.
 
 
+18 # fredboy 2012-10-23 04:19
The reason Romney was so passive is simple: you can't make up foreign policy. And you can't just guess, or say anything and hope people will believe you. You are dealing with real people and real cultures. Way too delicate and responsive for his typical BS.

The election, pure and simple, will be America's IQ test.
 
 
+15 # doneasley 2012-10-23 05:57
Quoting fredboy:
... The election, pure and simple, will be America's IQ test.


You're SO right, Fredboy. If Americans can't cut thru the BS and look at who is assembled to call the shots should Rmoney be elected, they'll be cutting their own throats.

(1) On the home front, he's going to implement the RYAN BUDGET, which will decimate our economy. He has no budget of his own. Rmoney - a PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE - has signed the Grover Norquist "No New taxes" pledge. And Norquist has said that he expects Rmoney to "have enough digits to hold a pen to sign the legislation coming from Congress". And who will be forming that legislation? The crazed Tea Party who have opposed the President on every issue, brought us the sequester and a downgrade in America's credit rating - that's who!

(2) On foreign affairs, 17 of Rmoney's 24 foreign advisors are the neo-conservativ es from the Bush administration, who you might remember conjured up the INVASION AND OCCUPATION of Iraq. Which, I might add, Mitt was all for! President Obama was the first to point out that Rmoney took his DONORS to Israel to meet with the priminister - not the least of which was Sheldon Adelson, who wants to bomb Iran out of existence and holds a deep hatred for the Palestinians. This man has vowed to spend $100 MILLION to see Rmoney elected.

(3) Rmoney is a man who will say or do anything to gain the presidency. He has NO CORE VALUES!!!
 
 
+11 # bmiluski 2012-10-23 06:53
I have to disagree. With the romney family involved with the ownership of the electronic voting machines that will be used in this election, who do you think will win. The neo-cons just want romney to be close in the pols so that a stolen election won't be notices.
 
 
+6 # X Dane 2012-10-23 12:20
bmulski

That is what worries me VERY much. Is there any way to have monitors prevent a repeat of 04??
Can we check what people say AFTER THEY VOTED, so if there is a substantial discrepancy, we can take action??

Of course this is not possible BEFORE this election......b ut WHY can we not INSIST on getting voting machines that give us a paper receipt?? And make the machines uniform in all the states??

The elections since 2000 have all made us feel that irregularities were going on. Certainly in 04 in Ohio, when the Diebold manufacturer publicly assured Bush that he WOULD DELIVER OHIO TO HIM. And then HE DID IT.

From what I have read. Ohio WAS STOLEN, but nothing could be done.....I think because there was no way of PROVING IT

Also it should be illegal that private people OWN voting machines. How can that be handled so NOBODY can subvert votes.
We really need action here.
 
 
+4 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 14:12
Nineteen states are not going to allow exit polling this year. Gee, I wonder why...
 
 
0 # Salus Populi 2012-10-25 20:59
Apparently, according to Snopes, Tagg Romney's Solamere has not directly invested in the voting machine company (they partnered with H.I.G. on other investments, but not that one), so technically the family is not guilty as charged. Nevertheless, many of the partners in H.I.G. came from Bain Capital originally, have been among the more generous supporters [several hundred k] of his campaign, and are longtime family friends. And they *do* have serious investments in the voting machine company.

Snopes contacted the Ohio voter registrar, and the machines are being used in only two of Ohio's 88 counties [albeit the two most populous, according to other reports]. And the county registrars say that they use paper ballots, and that the Hart machines will be used only to scan in the totals,so that if there is a need for a recount, it can be done by hand with the representatives of both parties witnessing.

Sounds good; except that in 2004, 56 of the 88 counties in Ohio [under Secretary Ken Blackwell] defied a court order and destroyed all the ballots -- the evidence of fraud and corruption -- without consequence to themselves. So if the registrars this time around follow suit, a recount in those two populous counties will be impossible.

And one other thing: the Hart voting machines are also to be used in swing state Colorado, and the Snopes entry is silent about the details there.
 
 
+13 # Billy Bob 2012-10-23 07:19
I agree. Although I think he really does have a core of values. He just doesn't like saying them out loud when he knows the cameras are rolling. We caught a glimpse of it when he made his 47% speech.
 
 
+3 # X Dane 2012-10-23 11:38
fredboy.

OH pleeeeze, now you scare me.

Have you LISTENED to any of the undecided voters interviewed after each of the debates?
 
 
+10 # natalierosen 2012-10-23 06:05
The explicit duty of a president as fully defined in the US Constitution is Commander-in-Ch ief of the civilian controlled military. His most important duty, of course, is to keep the country safe – free from enemy attack. Because the president has at his disposal the ability to use a military which is the strongest and most technologically sophisticated in the world, he understands, after having occupied the oval office for four years, how to command it while using the expertise of dozens of military advisers to assist him in the process . Since 9/11 the Department of Defense, the Pentagon, the CIA and other arsenals of foreign policy have had to morph and grow into something it never was in history – a gargantuan technological vessel of computer programmed precision able to talk with each other at a moment’s notice. The process and the procedure are as complex as they ever have been and the president is familiar with it but Romney did and does not have a clue. He looked nervous and sweated profusely because he knew he understood little about foreign affairs as witnessed by his disastrous tour abroad to our strongest allies, England, Israel and Poland where he managed to insult someone in every state. One wonders what he would do when confronting an adversary. Perish the thought.
 
 
-10 # 2wmcg2 2012-10-23 07:02
Romney did what he needed to do to win over independent voters. Aggressiveness would not have worked here. Obama fell into a trap. The election results will be the test of Romney's strategy.
 
 
+4 # X Dane 2012-10-23 12:31
2wmcg2.
He can only win them over because from what we have seen they sure are not the brightest bulbs. The ones asked after the debates. DO you NOW know who to vote for? sounded pathetic. Their reasons for not knowing YET showed very little intelligence.
 
 
+8 # Quickmatch 2012-10-23 07:23
I was surprised at Romney's passive face--first time I saw it this round. Even more surprised to hear him climbing aboard Obama's foreign policy raft like some long lost twin. I only wonder what Romney's real position is? Continuing reversals over the length and breadth of his political career leaves me unsure.
 
 
+2 # X Dane 2012-10-23 12:41
Quickmatch..... ..PLEEEEZE. How in the world can you be UNSURE???? the man is AN EMPTY SUIT, who will say ANYTHING and do ANYTIHNG TO BE PRESIDENT.

He is precisely what the T bags want. He will do what they dictate. For HEAVEN'S SAKE he has signed Grover Norquist's pledge of never raising taxes!!!

All responsible economists have said that we MUST... BOTH make cuts and raise taxes.
 
 
+2 # GreenBee 2012-10-23 21:36
[quote name="I only wonder what Romney's real position is? Continuing reversals over the length and breadth of his political career leaves me unsure.

Romney said that his comprehensive strategy to reduce extremist anti-American sentiment is economic development in the Middle East. Yes, he said that in this last debate. So this indeed may be a part of his actual intention.

Sounds to me like W all over again who thinks we can offer fundamentalist Islamists some little taste of affluence or freedom and they will just abandon their religion (which they love more than their lives in many cases) just like that. How did it work in Iraq? And wouldn't this just be very expensive nation building? And wouldn't this take decades to accomplish?
 
 
+8 # Activista 2012-10-23 09:28
yes - somebody in Romney camp is couching him with Mein Kampf.
www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/a/adolf_hitler.html
"Germany (USrael?)will either be a world power or will not be at all"
"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator."
"Great liars are also great magicians"
"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think."
... almost any quote fits ...
It is scary how Romney mimics the fuhrer.
 
 
+7 # MindDoc 2012-10-23 09:50
But don't forget, just like Big Bird and Jim Lehrer are "loved" by Romney (along with Planned Parenthood), it seems what Romney loves he either acquires and offshores (along with his profits), or he would eliminate. Like teachers: "I love teachers". Right. "I love teachers... on rye with a little mustard". PBS too. And Planned Parenthood. And depending on the time of day, he might decide to love other things too, like the middle class, women, education. "Oh waiter, please put them in a doggy bag...) Seriously, seriously dangerous, if not for his his patrons and constantly self-contradict ing facts and "positions", for his judgment regarding 'real people' of the "We the People" variety. He loves us too. As trophies.
 
 
+1 # jlg 2012-10-23 13:05
Has anyone managed to have a worthwhile discussion with a committed Republican over the real issues of the day, such as Climate Change, Population Growth, Equality for Women (linked to the latter), Food Security (GM crops and Pesticides), the impact of so-called Free Trade Agreements and the lowly US ranking on many measures such as infant mortality and life expectancy (see http://knoema.com/atlas#country-rankings) etc etc? The answers I get range from "No comment" to "I disagree with the rankings (sic!)". It seems that blind loyalty trumps discussing these issues; George Lakoff ("Don't think of an elephant") is proved right time after time!

It's a wonder that we hear anything relating to the 'Inconvenient Truths' from Moldable Mittens.... (did we? er....)
 
 
+2 # Corvette-Bob 2012-10-23 13:48
The area where a President does have power is in foreign affairs. Domestically a President has very little power but we all believe and pretend that he does have power. Presidents are more like a tree at the side of the road and watching traffice going by. If things go well he gets credit, if there is an accident we blame him. But the American people are clueless and they deserve the disfunctional government that they have at this time. They listen to Fox "News" which gives them totally nonsense and they lap it up as being true. Maybe we should have Rupert Murdock join the debate and have him give his opinions as to what we should do. Or have Norquist come on and explain how we should set the tax code to benefit the wealthy. Or have Bolten come on and explain which country we should attack next.
 
 
+5 # reiverpacific 2012-10-23 17:14
I'm getting into this one very late but:
"The Boca Raton debate had the potential to be the least influential of the three, in part because of the focus on foreign policy-a decidedly backseat concern in this campaign-and also because of the competition from the baseball playoffs and Monday Night Football" [Quote from article]
Unwitting or no, that sums up the US for you, or from my own perspective "Fuck the World, we have "Other issues" (as "Prick" Cheney said in getting his seven deferments from service in Vietnam)"; Baseball and Football (both of which I enjoy B.T.W.).
No wonder you are behind the rest of the world in so many progressive ways.
This country carries far too big a club for the hands it keeps being placed in -no slight on Obama actually, who is the most globally aware and multi-cultural President I think you've ever had.
Give him and yourselves a break.
 

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