Intro: "It is urgently important to prevent a Republican administration under Romney/Ryan from taking office in January 2013."
Long-time anti-war activist and hero of the Pentagon Papers, Daniel Ellsberg. (photo: Mark Constantini/SFChronicle)
Defeat Romney, Without Illusions About Obama
18 October 12
t is urgently important to prevent a Republican administration under Romney/Ryan from taking office in January 2013.
The election is now just weeks away, and I want to urge those whose values are generally in line with mine -- progressives, especially activists -- to make this goal one of your priorities during this period.
An activist colleague recently said to me: "I hear you're supporting Obama."
I was startled, and took offense. "Supporting Obama? Me?!"
"I lose no opportunity publicly," I told him angrily, to identify Obama as a tool of Wall Street, a man who's decriminalized torture and is still complicit in it, a drone assassin, someone who's launched an unconstitutional war, supports kidnapping and indefinite detention without trial, and has prosecuted more whistleblowers like myself than all previous presidents put together. "Would you call that support?"
My friend said, "But on Democracy Now you urged people in swing states to vote for him! How could you say that? I don't live in a swing state, but I will not and could not vote for Obama under any circumstances."
My answer was: a Romney/Ryan administration would be no better -- no different -- on any of the serious offenses I just mentioned or anything else, and it would be much worse, even catastrophically worse, on a number of other important issues: attacking Iran, Supreme Court appointments, the economy, women's reproductive rights, health coverage, safety net, climate change, green energy, the environment.
I told him: "I don't 'support Obama.' I oppose the current Republican Party. This is not a contest between Barack Obama and a progressive candidate. The voters in a handful or a dozen close-fought swing states are going to determine whether Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan are going to wield great political power for four, maybe eight years, or not."
As Noam Chomsky said recently, "The Republican organization today is extremely dangerous, not just to this country, but to the world. It's worth expending some effort to prevent their rise to power, without sowing illusions about the Democratic alternatives."
Following that logic, he's said to an interviewer what my friend heard me say to Amy Goodman: "If I were a person in a swing state, I'd vote against Romney/Ryan, which means voting for Obama because there is no other choice."
The election is at this moment a toss-up. That means this is one of the uncommon occasions when we progressives -- a small minority of the electorate -- could actually have a significant influence on the outcome of a national election, swinging it one way or the other.
The only way for progressives and Democrats to block Romney from office, at this date, is to persuade enough people in swing states to vote for Obama: not stay home, or vote for someone else. And that has to include, in those states, progressives and disillusioned liberals who are at this moment inclined not to vote at all or to vote for a third-party candidate (because like me they've been not just disappointed but disgusted and enraged by much of what Obama has done in the last four years and will probably keep doing).
They have to be persuaded to vote, and to vote in a battleground state for Obama not anyone else, despite the terrible flaws of the less-bad candidate, the incumbent. That's not easy. As I see it, that's precisely the "effort" Noam is referring to as worth expending right now to prevent the Republicans' rise to power. And it will take progressives -- some of you reading this, I hope -- to make that effort of persuasion effectively.
It will take someone these disheartened progressives and liberals will listen to. Someone manifestly without illusions about the Democrats, someone who sees what they see when they look at the president these days: but who can also see through candidates Romney or Ryan on the split-screen, and keep their real, disastrous policies in focus.
It's true that the differences between the major parties are not nearly as large as they and their candidates claim, let alone what we would want. It's even fair to use Gore Vidal's metaphor that they form two wings ("two right wings," as some have put it) of a single party, the Property or Plutocracy Party, or as Justin Raimondo says, the War Party.
Still, the political reality is that there are two distinguishable wings, and one is reliably even worse than the other, currently much worse overall. To be in denial or to act in neglect of that reality serves only the possibly imminent, yet presently avoidable, victory of the worse.
The traditional third-party mantra, "There's no significant difference between the major parties" amounts to saying: "The Republicans are no worse, overall." And that's absurd. It constitutes shameless apologetics for the Republicans, however unintended. It's crazily divorced from present reality.
And it's not at all harmless to be propagating that absurd falsehood. It has the effect of encouraging progressives even in battleground states to refrain from voting or to vote in a close election for someone other than Obama, and more importantly, to influence others to act likewise.That's an effect that serves no one but the Republicans, and ultimately the 1 percent.
It's not merely understandable, it's entirely appropriate to be enraged at Barack Obama. As I am. He has often acted outrageously, not merely timidly or "disappointingly." If impeachment were politically imaginable on constitutional grounds, he's earned it (like George W. Bush, and many of his predecessors!) It is entirely human to want to punish him, not to "reward" him with another term or a vote that might be taken to express trust, hope or approval.
But rage is not generally conducive to clear thinking. And it often gets worked out against innocent victims, as would be the case here domestically, if refusals to vote for him resulted in Romney's taking key battleground states that decide the outcome of this election.
To punish Obama in this particular way, on Election Day -- by depriving him of votes in swing states and hence of office in favor of Romney and Ryan -- would punish most of all the poor and marginal in society, and workers and middle class as well: not only in the U.S. but worldwide in terms of the economy (I believe the Republicans could still convert this recession to a Great Depression), the environment and climate change. It could well lead to war with Iran (which Obama has been creditably resisting, against pressure from within his own party). And it would spell, via Supreme Court appointments, the end of Roe v. Wade and of the occasional five to four decisions in favor of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
The reelection of Barack Obama, in itself, is not going to bring serious progressive change, end militarism and empire, or restore the Constitution and the rule of law. That's for us and the rest of the people to bring about after this election and in the rest of our lives -- through organizing, building movements and agitating.
In the eight to twelve close-fought states -- especially Florida, Ohio, and Virginia, but also Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Virginia and Wisconsin -- for any progressive to encourage fellow progressives and others in those states to vote for a third-party candidate is, I would say, to be complicit in facilitating the election of Romney and Ryan, with all its consequences.
To think of that as urging people in swing states to "vote their conscience" is, I believe, dangerously misleading advice. I would say to a progressive that if your conscience tells you on Election Day to vote for someone other than Obama in a battleground state, you need a second opinion. Your conscience is giving you bad counsel.
I often quote a line by Thoreau that had great impact for me: "Cast your whole vote: not a strip of paper merely, but your whole influence." He was referring, in that essay, to civil disobedience, or as he titled it himself, "Resistance to Civil Authority."
It still means that to me. But this is a year when for people who think like me -- and who, unlike me, live in battleground states -- casting a strip of paper is also important. Using your whole influence this month to get others to do that, to best effect, is even more important.
That means for progressives in the next couple of weeks -- in addition to the rallies, demonstrations, petitions, lobbying (largely against policies or prospective policies of President Obama, including austerity budgeting next month), movement-building and civil disobedience that are needed all year round and every year -- using one's voice and one's e-mails and op-eds and social media to encourage citizens in swing states to vote against a Romney victory by voting for the only real alternative, Barack Obama.
Daniel Ellsberg is a former State and Defense Department official who has been arrested for acts of non-violent civil disobedience over eighty times, initially for copying and releasing the top secret Pentagon Papers, for which he faced 115 years in prison. Living in a non-swing state, he does not intend to vote for President Obama.
Reader Supported News is the Publication of Origin for this work. Permission to republish is freely granted with credit and a link back to Reader Supported News.
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David Stockman offers some succinct analysis here:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/10/14/david-stockman-mitt-romney-and-the-bain-drain.html
> Republican Party. This is not a contest between Barack
> Obama and a progressive candidate. The voters in a
> handful or a dozen close-fought swing states are going
> to determine whether Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan are
> going to wield great political power for four, maybe
> eight years, or not."
> As Noam Chomsky said recently, "The Republican
> organization today is extremely dangerous, not just
> to this country, but to the world. It's worth expending
> some effort to prevent their rise to power, without
> sowing illusions about the Democratic alternatives."
It just breaks my heart to see that it will not be
until after most of us are long dead and gone that
humanity might have just the slimmest of chances
to develop human values and start to put things
right in the world ... and maybe much longer or
even never.
All the leaders in human rights work their entire
lives, many are hurt or killed and still the masses
of people must be held hostage, their lives taken
and used for the sustenance and growth of immoral
and inhuman systems that serve a tiny number of
people who are trashing the planet for their own
amusement.
If there is a God how could it possibly be happy
with its supposed ultimate creation?
I think we have sunk to the bottom. We need to fight our way up to morals, respect, co-existence, and ethics. We need to start now... well, yesterday. Vote Democratic!
I cannot believe that they are Evolution's last word on the subject.
And yep, 'tis evil indeed that has, forever and a day, pushed us toward total power over all and greed, greed, greed. Here's how I've been objecting (in addition to online comments/replys such as this): an auto rear window sign that reads: Deliver us from evil...
WALL STREET VILLAINAIRES, and a large yellow poster with big black lettering:
HONK and SAY NO TO GREED
1. Jungle primary with ALL candidates from all parties.
2. Automatic run-off between the top two vote getters.
PROBLEM SOLVED.
Until then, in this universe, the United States has a two-party electoral system. Liberal 3rd parties don't compete with the repugs. They only split the left-wing vote and ensure a repug victory. That's why Nader's campaign was funded by the GOP in 2000. Nader accepted their money gladly. 93,000 people in Florida voted for him. Gore only had a few hundred votes stolen from him by the Supreme Court.
And, though, i don't think Nader should have run in Florida in 2000, Gore won (all of the independent media outlets that looked at it and did the full recount said the same thing) not to mention that 94,000 people were thrown off the roles (97% of which turned out not to be convicted felons and even Pat Buchannan said that all those Jewish votes he got in Palm Beach county were probably meant for Gore)
I agree with both of you, but would extend the jungle primary into the Primary system. Primaries would be paid for and managed by the federal government. The order of states voting are decided by voter turnout for the last election. The 4 top vote winners from each state are automatically on the ballot. Same process where each voter gets 8 votes. candidates can affiliate with a party, but that does not limit the final ballot to one from each party.
I also would keep the Electoral College to prevent the race totally being about a couple of states.
There are more details, but I would just add that the Constitutional amendment must have a clause requiring a secure, verifiable, paper trail.
Agreed, except for keeping the electoral college (i would also abolish the Senate which is also an inherently undemocratic body)...and all elections, not just primaries, should be publicly funded with the TV networks (those that get and use the public airwaves basically for free) should be required to provide equal time to all candidates on the ballot (not just those from the 2 major parties or the 1 major party with the 2 wings).
The Senate is designed to represent the states; by giving each state a voice, and slightly balancing the power of large states in the electoral college, I would argue is more democratic in a federal structure.
In fact, I might even consider the idea of splitting the House into 2 components, one that each district represents the equivalent of the the smallest state's population. The second larger House would represent the original number of people that was written into the Constitution. This group would initiate all laws, with no debate. The idea is that Congress is spread too thin, each Representative cannot possibly represent his or her district.
And, I don't give a fig about campaign cash if a) corporations are barred from participating and b) debates are free and open to all qualified candidates. We still need to define qualified, but it is certainly wider than Democrat, Republican and maybe one other, sometimes, maybe, but only one, and they are polite about it, and say please and may I to the Democrats and the Republicans. It's also preferred that they be white, but blacks are ok unless they are angry, but mostly maybe.
in brief i would argue that the senate was established both to keep power from "the people" but more importantly to maintain the dominance of the southern slaveholding states (who ruled for much of the first part of the nation's history).
have to think a bit more on your proposal for restructuring the house....it's an interesting idea for sure.
i would certainly agree that your campaing finance reform would be way better than what we have now but still think that ultimately public financing is the only real way to truly level the playing field...i'll still vote for ya and your current plan though as it would still be a huge step forward.
Big picture is we need to look at how to make our elections work in the 21st Century, where we all vote as individuals instead of just the landowning patriarchs. That model is out of date.
ALL candidates from ALL parties? No way top square this with a verifiable paper ballopt, when there might be a dozen or more parties (some quite small) eligible for inclusion under such a system.
Better to eliminate the Electoral College and, if no candidate wins a popular-vote majority, THEN stage a runoff between the top two vote-getters.
We need to increase the signature requirements to get on the ballot, and make it standard across the country in federal elections. Parties are not part of our election system, we have just allowed the Dems and the Repugs to make the rules.
We are a long way off from getting it.
They wouldn't though. Afterall, the repugs enjoy a huge financial advantage overall.
“Where there is no vision, the people perish.”
Proverbs 29:18
“A map of the world that does not include Utopia is not worth even glancing at…” Oscar Wilde
If you don’t know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else
Yogi Berra
“The history of our times calls to mind those Walt Disney characters who rush madly over the edge of a cliff without seeing it, so that the power of their imagination keeps them suspended in mid-air; but as soon as they look down and see where they are, they fall.”
Raoul Vaneigem
Otherwise all we are left with is....
“There is no alternative.”
Margaret Thatcher
Regaina, respectfully, I'm no spring chicken either but if we lose our vision of the kind of country, society and world we want to live in then "they" have indeed won. Having a "utopian" vision doesn't mean that you abandon reality or the real day-to-day struggles and battles that need to be waged (which is why i have argued vehemently against those that say there is no difference at all between the two parties even though i agree with Vidal that we are really talking about one party with two wings). But, a vision, also provides a "road map" so that we don't at the same time wind up struggling for things that in the end don't move us closer to what we want or have us going down a road that ultimately leads us in the wrong direction.
Unfortunately, i think, that far too much of the "progressive" community has lost all sense of vision and so the best we can ever muster is a "reactive" politics instead of initiating a "proactive" one. We may both be long gone before such a vision is ever realized but that doesn't make it any less critical to have one.
Additionally, we must limit campaign funding to public sources lest the wealthy maintain their strangle-hold on the electoral process.
Finally, these campaigns must be limited to a period no longer than 2-3 months. The psychological effect of our emotionally vitriolic campaigns has left this country far too divided for its own good.
As for ranked choice elections. Don't know that it would be helpful. A parliamentary govt. would help by allowing greater participation than the two corrupt party system in place currently and forge coalitions and a spirit of compromise sorely lacking in Congress today. Our system, in the words of Dennis Kucinich who understands it too well, is dysfunctional, corrupted by the influence of private donations and never ending campaigns as well as obstructionist procedures like filibustering that prevent an administration from effectively governing.
Its a slow process but if the focus is put on city council, mayoral elections and such while not wasting resources on National elections many progressives will vote Green locally and Democrat nationally until the party becomes strong enough.
Personally, I am not in favor of forcing people to vote. Its probably my social Libertarian side coming out. That is why I suggested we give an incentive for higher voter turnout.
I think preferential ranked non party affiliated voting using a ranking system would allow additional parties to participate and be included in the process, and not just a sideshow. For example, if the Primaries consisted of all the comedy acts that ran for president as Republicans, a couple of Libertarians, a few Greens, maybe even a Commie and Obama; who do you think would be the last four standing? It is possible that none of them would be a Republican.
Notice also that I stated that all debates must be televised with all candidates, no corporate $$ at all. I would also ban all anonymous contributions and Super Duper Pacs as well.
Also by having the federal government control the Primary process, the entire Primary season could be cut in half. Currently, its running about 18 months. have the first Primary in April and finish them by the end of July. That means most campaigns won't start up until early February.
The bottom line is we need to alter America for the people. The details still need to be hashed out.
They can express their disdain by voiting for "None of the Above" . . . It is critically important that the citizenry realize that they get what they vote for. Not voting only encourages disengagement. Having to make a choice makes you realize there is a consequence . . . an important lesson that could only be taught by affirmatively requiring a vote. It also would completely destroy the usefulness, so embraced by the Repubs, of voter suppression.
3a. Mandatory cap on campaign finances, strictly enforced
3b. Campaign expenses reimbursed by the govt for all candidates above 4% votes.
4a. Free (as in free beer) speech on TV / radio imposed on same as a condition to get the license.
4b. Same air time for all candidates, strictly controlled and enforced.
4c. Prohibition of other political ads during that time.
In particular, repeal Citizens United.
5. Verifiable voting process; govt audited voting machines if voting machines at all; paper trails etc.
Then, and only then, could we have a proper democratic process.
Short of that this is Plutocracy for the whole of us.
Don't hold your breath, but show fortitude. As William of Orange once put it "It is not necessary to hope to undertake, not to succeed to persevere".
movetoamend.org
It absolutely WON'T happen quickly enough to please the kinds of voters who want everything now. It's not even possible.
The main obstacle to all of this would be the repug party. A few Democrats would get behind it. The repug party would laugh it off the floor before it got a chance. For now, we'd need to rely on a very strong Democratic Party with foresight. That hasn't happened in several decades.
How you ever considered how hard that would be to enforce?
Whatever, I think its also a good idea to put candidate airtime together ... if not debates, because I am not sure debates really tell us that much, especially lately, more parallel appearances but make it mandatory that everyone gets to speak at every occasion in whatever format they choose.
Also, a crippling fine for any lie or spin in an ad.
Making political PACs a crime.
Making lobbying a crime as it once was.
If you allow the stupidity of the SCOTUS decision that money is free speech, then any donation above the level that the poorest person in the country can afford should be illegal, as it infringes on their rights.
That has been done in California State Seats and much to my dismay I am in a district where the top two vote getters are both republicans. Greens do no stand a chance of ending up in the top two. It will end any chance of more than two parties.
Sadly, yes it is now.
Swing states will decide the election, and if you live in a swing state, you MUST vote for the better of the top 2 candidates. There are too many similarities between Obama and Romney, but there are HUGE differences. Be sure to vote, and vote for Obama.
But for the those who live in the non-swing states (the majority of Americans), voting for either Romney or Obama is throwing your vote away. The only thing that will do is encourage both parties to keep moving towards a semi-fascist corporatocracy. It will NOT influence the election. If you want your vote to do some good, vote for the Green Party candidate, Jill Stein. If enough people do that, the Democrats will realize they need to put people and life ahead of corporations and money if they don't want to become irrelevant.
Voting for either Obama or Romney in a state where either is sure to win is just wasting your vote. It does no good at all. If the outcome is decided, your vote will not change the outcome. So why not make use of your vote instead of wasting it? Vote for someone better than Obama. But ONLY if you don't live in a swing state.
It's really not that complicated. I don't see why this is so difficult for people to understand.
The same reason that FDR had for pushing the New Deal or that Johnson had for pushing for the Voting Rights Act or that a conservative Supreme Court gave us Brown vs. Board of Education; because there was a mass social/politica l movement demanding it. Change in this country has never come because we elected progressive leaders it has come from organizing, struggle and building a politically powerful mass movement. That is our challenge and that is a very different (and much harder) task then merely trotting out a 3rd party presidential candidate (who has no chance of winning) every 4 years. One is serious politics (and thus hard labor intensive work) and the other is mere spectacle (and provides the illusion of meaningful politics..."a vote of conscience" while at the same time simply denying the real consequences of that kind of phony protest e.g., millions losing extended unemployment benefits or millions of poor and working class women losing insurance coverage for basic reproductive health care).
Not to mention that Ellsberg (nor Chomsky for that matter) never said we should "all" vote for Obama but rather only those of us in swing states.
Obama got rid of the gays in the military ban. He also reformed the student loan programs. He also passed some financial reform, although it admittedly wasn't what I wanted. OBL and many Al-Qaeda terrorists are gone.
What else did you honestly expect? He didn't have the votes for much else. I didn't expect him to magically change everything.
So, it is one thing to say we need to vote for Obama to keep Romney out but it quite another to defend in any way shape or form policies that have been out and out heinous, reactionary and impeachable offenses.
I have never been a democrat and like you want to see a real alternative. But this takes hard work at the grass roots level to build something and that means it has to happen every day in between elections because otherwise we build nothing and then may feel like we have a "clean conscience" by voting for a 3rd party candidate every 4 years when in fact, as Sartre understood years ago we all have "dirty hands" which in this case is from (possibly) being the cause of a republican victory that would make the lives of millions demonstrably worse (e.g. losing long term unemployment benefits or basic health care coverage for reproductive health care needs). These are not "revolutionary" changes or differences for sure but it is never "revolution or nothing" and our decisions also have to be based on the very real effects that they will have on millions of people. So, if say Romney is elected because of votes for a 3rd party candidate in a swing state which then leads to millions losing unemployment benefits or reproductive health care how is this a vote of "conscience"?
If there is a comment that gets lots of negative points that is also not just right wing trolling, it is often a truth that a part of the left that cannot understand reality will attack with negative votes.
Your comment that we are screwed under both parties if not right is at least worth considering seriously.
Possibly on rare occasion, but as a rule it's because the post is a masterpiece of stupidity or ignorance.
You just fail to worry about or account for Obama's striking continuity in policy with Republicans on most issues, and his failure on other issues that act in ways that will end crises, thus bringing on more debt and more excuses for austerity and cuts in the social safety net.
It is entirely progressive and reasonable to criticize Obama. It's fine to disagree, particularly if you can prove it, but it is not OK to attack the question that is a not a right wing troll attack.
That is the problem with this website.
As I said, right wing trolls who do not further intelligent discussion deserve to be called on it or voted down in most cases, but people who are asking legitimate or sincere questions or comments do not deserve that, and the failure to pursue rigor by the right is not a good excuse for the left to do it as well.
is writing to waverers(if there are
any), in Florida, Ohio, Virginia,
Penna.
I don't think he sufficiently emphasizes
the duty of those of use in non-battlegroun d states to V O T E
F O R
S O M E O N E
E L S E ! !
Getting rid of the Duopoly will be
a multi-year project. But now is a
good time for those of us in CA, NY,
IL, MA, MD, etc to start.
Best wishes,
Alan McConnell, in Silver Spring, MD
The Green Party may be a local force in places like parts of Alaska, San Francisco, Oakland, Berkeley, parts of Montana, parts of Colorado, Boulder, parts of New Mexico, Madison, Ann Arbor, Amherst, Cambridge, and parts of Manhattan. That is, I could see them winning a seat or two in the legislature of these states and maybe a city council or county council position. At the very most, although unlikely, they could perhaps win a House district based in a place San Francisco. But that would require the stars to align perfectly.
Supporting the third party only elects Republicans in most places in the US, save for San Francisco or Greenwich village. That's the brutal truth.
The Green Party could be come a national force if people voted intelligently and voted for what they believe in. A huge number of Democrats are more closely aligned with the positions of the Green party than with those of the current Democratic party. If a fraction of those (in non-swing states) voted their beliefs, the green party could get traction. 5% of the vote = federal funding. 15% = getting into the debates. Then the Democrats would have to either move to the left and win back those votes, or admit they are a centrist party.
I agree that currently the Greens are not a force and also that given there limited resources that trying to run a national campaign they may never become one...however, what if they began with a targeted campaign say in NY and Cal. I believe if they concentrated their efforts in a couple of key large dem. states that they could become a political force in those states with enough of a vote to have some real leverage. It will take time and the strategy has to be conceived from the very beginning as being for the long haul over several if not many election cycles but there is not reason why this could not be done if people are serious and committed to the hard, labor intensive grass roots work that this requires. if all people want to do is simply trot out a 3rd party presidential candidate every 4 years then they are not serious for this in fact builds nothing and has been shown time and time again can lead to disasteroud results.
So, yes we can build a 3rd party movement in this country but it has to be done thoughtfully and strategically and with alot of hard work from those who are talking about the need for it.
However, this is such a infinitesimal act that it will never be noticed by anyone, even if lots of people do it, and my question or concern would be what makes us think the Greens are any more effective in fighting the Republicans?
The thing is that the world is defined by the network of business, and the greens seem to go at this problem outside of that understanding, so if they came to power, how to they drive a system they do not really understand? How do they not end up just like the Republicans and Democrats?
That is, the Republicans and Democrats and the people who own then are still out there and not going to go away? Those people are the problem, and not even all of them.
In order to have the right leadership we need a plan, and to have a plan we need understanding, and to instill that understanding in the people, meaning we need to the media too.
Over time things just are going to naturally work out to destroy any opposition to the status quo and the idiots at the world today will just get more emboldened to make decisions that ignore most of us.
Next we must restore the Economic Democracy which is the heritage of all humanity's 'indigenous' (Latin 'self-generatin g') heritage worldwide as well as First Nations here in the Americas & the USA. 'Economic' (Greek 'oikos' refers to the multi-home) unity in the proximity & intimacy of multihome dwellings: female & male, intergeneration al, inter-disciplin ary, multiple capacities work together in mutual aid with organization, time-based human-resource accounting & progressive youth to elder representation in the specialized Production Societies is facilitated. Only when we have loving control of a welcoming ecological economy for all will we have control of our politics.
https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/relational-economy/8-economic-democracy
We are still engaged in counter-product ive wars, constitutional rights are still being taken away by the "Patriot" Act and other rulings that are more of the same.
Having said all of that, I agree that Romney/Ryan will be far worse. I personally don;t give the USA many more decades before it splits into several mutually-antago nistic countries. I just hope the one that's a totalitarian theocracy doesn't have nuclear weapons. They would be used as "God's Holy Fire" without a second's hesitation.
Romney's fellow Mormon, Glenn Beck, the controversial right-wing talk radio host, speculated about a Romney victory at the polls by noting, "I think God is trying to make this so clear to us that, if it happens, it's His finger."
Sooooo . . . if Romney wins, it's God giving us the finger? Never thought I'd agree with Glen Beck!
That means then that the converse is also true right so if Obama wins its God giving the finger to those who claim to be speaking/acting in his/her/its? name....we should hold them to this one and demand they "repent" and abandon their clearly "sinful" ways when Obama is reelected.
A democracy is not meant for such a large population with so many problems. That, of course, does not mean another system must be totalitarian or similar. It could be done, but citizens must realize that change must come.
Our problem is that those who want the control and to take over the government are not interested in a decent governing system.
When the Black Panthers talked about the lack of decent food for school kids they didn't just bitch about it but rather organized an amazingly successful breakfast program for kids (getting donations from the community). Or when the "complained" about police brutality they didn't just complain but rather organized to have people follow the cops so that there would be witnesses to keep them accountable and stop there abusive practices.
When the unions (in earlier days) faced the lack of affordable housing for their members they built it for them (using their own union funds).
People in Mondagon Spain built the largest, most successful worker-owned cooperative (now a co-operative of co-operatives including their own bank since it has been that successful)that now employs nearly 85,000 people (in the US look at the work of the Democracy Collaborative in Cleveland and how they have built a large worker-owned "green" dry cleaning business that services hospitals and universities).
When people were facing evictions here in the 1930s the communists and IWW organized eviction watches that moved people back into their apartments after they had been evicted.
We have to more than just complain and instead talk about how we can build the alternative institutions we need.
ROMNEY - DOING TIME.
An indefinite sentence. They'll be seeking and finding ways of turning 8 years into 88 for their candidates.
the commenters on commondreams.or g all condemn ellsberg and chomsky on this.
endorse fascism and murder? no way.
not even complicated.
don't vote for murder.
this is apparently a democratic party organ.
Ellsberg and Chomsky do not "endorse" Obama which is clear if you read their pieces.
And for so-called progressives/ra dicals/revoluti onaries to condemn two of the most committed activists/intel lectuals who have been fighting the good fight for more than half a century is something to be ashamed and not proud of. Just another example of the "the poverty of theory" to borrow EP Thompson's phrase of so much of the American (so-called) "left"
The left didn't get behind Hubert Humphrey in 1968 because he wasn't left-wing enough. How much did it help to have Nixon in office?
The left refused to get behind Carter in 1980 because he wasn't sufficiently liberal enough. How much did it help to have Reagan in office for the next 8 years.
Maybe you're too young to remember anything before Clinton, but this argument has a long past and splitting the vote of the left has NEVER ended in anything other than right-wingers having unchecked power.
I would argue that the Soviet Union did not "collapse suddenly" but even if that were true the US is not the Soviet Union and if the US "collapses suddenly" the result is more likely to be fascism so too long for the collapse of the US is suicidal at best.
so basically the position of the "i won't vote for the lesser of two evils" is: well, if Romney gets elected and he cuts off extended unemployment benefits for millions, fuck 'em; if romney wins and he eliminates the mandate to include basic reproductive health care for women in health insurance policies, fuck 'em"...you may not see it this way but to the folks these benefits that's exactly what you are saying to them.
THANK YOU for puting it so perfectly. You've cut through the b.s. and gotten to the heart of the matter. If you don't mind, I'll continue using your argument whenever it helps.
The people who make this argument don't seem to have anything to lose. Perhaps they're all rich. Perhaps they don't love anyone relying on Social Security. Perhaps they wouldn't be affected by a draft to go to war with Iran.
When they say fuck 'em, they're refering to this entire country.
thanks for the kind words BB. it never ceases to amaze me how some self-proclaimed progressive/rad icals/revolutio naries what have you talk about "vote your conscience" yet don't seem to consider the very real consequences to the very people whose side the claim to be on. i don't question their motives or commitment but think they are at best "misguided" perhaps because their "benefits" are not at risk i.e., they are not personally facing the loss of unemployment benefits or reproductive health care or if they are they can afford to pay for these things on their own. I do think we need to continue to point out the consequences to real people and show that this is not just some abstraction.
Simply not true Agis. First, since i am in NY i will be voting for the Green party however if i were in a "swing state" i would hold my nose, get stinking drunk, and go vote for the dems. So, i have not bought any "propaganda." I have been anti-capitalist since the day i was born and believe in building an broad and powerful social movement in this country but to believe that simply trotting out a 3rd party presidential candidate every 4 years and believing this is serious alternative, radical or revolutionary politics well this is simply an illusion and in its own way another form of (false) propaganda.
Real people's lives are at stake during this election and whether we like it or not the reality is that either Obama or Romney is going to win. Our work to build a 3rd party happens the day after the election and then every day leading up to the next one otherwise its just BS and the kind of psuedo radicalism that is very dangerous for, as it did in Germany in 1933 it can lead to something far, far worse.
The U.S. could easily be subject to the same machinations on the part of another country. Globalization will come back to bite.
Not to mention a ruinous arms race.
Both Khrushchev and Eisenhower saw war first-hand and realized there was nothing glorious or admirable in it. They were both former warriors who wanted peace. They wanted to end the arms race with a summit conference in 1960. But a U-2 spy plane was shot down on May Day, requiring Khrushchev to denounce the US and Eisenhower to try to deny the spy mission, thus dooming the summit.
Did Ike personally order the spy mission? Or was it something the CIA planned, knowing the USSR had the capability to shoot down the plane? If it was the latter, then the CIA effectively sabotaged the summit meeting and kept the cold war going for another 30 years.
Coincidences do happen, but this one was awfully convenient for those people who wanted to continue the cold war.
GET OFF YOUR BUTTS and make sure that Romney/Ryan don't get elected and move us even further away from an American society based on repect for one another, and one in which we believe that everyone deserves a "hand-up" to advance themselves. This should NOT be a "what's in it for me" society.
Although progressives are starting to catch up with the Center for American Progress, Current TV, and MSNBC, they still have a long way to go. Republicans may lose elections, but their messaging machine never stops. It is always out there advancing right-wing policy views to the point where many liberals accept conservative assumptions without question. And their messaging machine inevitably influences pundits and non-Fox media outlets' coverage of various issues.
We got here through the last three-four decades of the conservatives dominating the messaging war. They know how to get their position out in simple words and phrases most Americans understand, while liberals take paragraphs to explain their viewpoints. There needs to be better messaging and better organization. That means having messages that ordinary people can understand and organizing with the discipline of a sleek corporation.
deeply sick
So, are you saying that if Romney wins it doesn't matter that millions will lose their unemployment benefits or that millions of women may lose insurance coverage for basic reproductive health care? These may not be "revolutionary" but if we supposed care about the plight of "the masses" well here it is. This is reality. So, by saying that everyone should vote 3rd party (instead of just those of us like myself that are in "safe states" like NY) you are in fact saying that it doesn't matter that millions will lose benefits or insurance coverage. This hardly seems "revolutionary" to me. It just seems calous. I don't question your motives or your commitment to real change. I applaud it and i'm with ya. But, the question is how do we get there and believing that simply voting 3rd party will get us there is a dangerous illusion that has the potential to hurt millions.
Regulated capitalism may not be perfect (what system is?) but it's better than anything else. If you would like a more socialist approach. take a look at places like Sweden or Denmark, where the socialist features are powered by regulated capitalism.
Most Americans don't even care about all the American military people killed in our middle-east wars. They just say it is other people's kids coming home in body bags.
and indefinite detention.
If Romney wins we will have the same
aggravated, plus extra Hell from all
other issues.
Good for America in the long run!
The Americans are so complacent that
they don´t act if Hell is not there,
so let us go to Hell as soon as possible
so we can have a revolution that changes
our way of thinking.
Also, full-scale revolutions invariably turn bad; bad actors always manage to seize power from the idealists. And we have nukes.
Be careful what you wish for.
If Romney wins, what will you say to the millions who will lose their Social Security?
If Romney wins what will you say to the millions who will no longer be able to borrow money for college?
dkonstruction put it pretty clearly...
You're saying, "fuck 'em".
Yes, we need a revolution but that does not magically appear when things get so bad (hell). Sadly, it just doesn't work that way.
We have to build the movement but that happens in between elections and not by just voting 3rd party every 4 years.
The conservatives are waging war against the working class and poor in this country. You don't win such a war by telling people to "keep cool" and calling for more bi-partisanship .
If these people didn't learn their lesson from 2000, nothing will convince them this go-round. If they were willing to march off the cliff in 2000, and the previous eight years didn't teach them anything, nothing will convince them now.
I will never forgive the wealthy celebrities and other activists who pushed for Nader in 2000. They had nothing to lose and could afford the luxury of throwing their votes away on a candidate who had no realistic chance of winning. They were not going to suffer the consequences.
Given the challenges of the last four year, while I agree that Obama has disappointed me in the area of healthcare, I think he has done the best job that anyone could given the circumstances. The votes were just not there for anything more "progressive".
I also agree 100% that Romney would be an absolute disaster, even after he makes up his mind which way he's going to jump. At the moment, he's like the character in literature who leapt onto his horse and rode off in all directions.
And, if you support "drone warfare" against individuals that we consider "enemies" or "threats" in countries that have not attacked us or even threatened to attack us then you also could not oppose the use of "drone warfare" in this country by another country to go after individuals in this country that they consider "enemies" or "threats". this is the logic and danger of such a position (even aside from the moral questions).
So, for example, why would it not be OK for Assad to use drones in the US to go after members of the "free syrian army" that he considers to be "enemies" and a "threat"? Or is it just ok for the US to do this?
What I fear more is the Democrats taking us for granted, as they have for quite some time. They have been trending further rightward for decades. The Tea Party has created such a hardline Republican party by making actual, credible threats: "if you don't stick up for us, we'll nominate someone who will or stay home." The left's response, apparently, is just to say that the other guy is worse and write some Big Bird memes.
A lot of people on both sides of this issue don't seem to grasp the essential difference between abandoning the Democratic Party (via party membership) and yet not throwing the election to the wolves (via voting). We can heartily encourage mass defection from the Democratic Party while still advocating "strategic voting" until such time as a serious rival third party emerges.
Everyone concerned with this topic really should read up on how the election of Lincoln was only possible AFTER the mass defection of the Whigs to the brand-new Republican Party. Stop fantasizing about all the registered Democrats deciding to vote third-party (won't happen), and start figuring out how to get them to actually switch to a new party!
There are only a few swing states. In those states, everyone who thinks Obama is even a little better than Romney should vote for him. That way he wins.
In most other states, either Romney or Obama has big lead. If Obama wins a state by a little less, it has no effect on who gets elected. If Romney wins by a little more, it has no effect on who gets elected. If people in all of those states start shifting towards a more liberal candidate, like Jill Stein, it won't affect the outcome of the election either. But you can be sure it will affect the way politicians think. Democrats will quickly stop taking us for granted and will listen more when we speak up. That would be a HUGE win.
http://www.c-span.org/History/Events/Former-Mossad-Director-Details-Events-in-the-Middle-East/10737435103/
It is worth watching.
I understand and share the desire the protest, but this election is too important. As WolfTotem alluded to previously, stating that the Republicans would "be seeking and finding ways of turning 8 years into 88 for their candidates."
To alter our form of governace from a republic to a "true" democracy would require significant constitutional changes that are unlikely to pass within the lifetimes of any reading this. To effect change in the near term, we must work within the framework that we have, and that means participation and activism.
Do not sit out this election. Yet, please don't run the risk of hurting yourself or the rest of the 99% by a protest vote if you are in a "blue" state.
But when the pellet doesn't appear, the rat stops pressing the lever. We're hardly different, that way.
Walt Kellys' Pogo was well known to have said; "We have met the enemy and he is us", as yet another of his characters swore to go out and vote against every politician in sight. It seems we have seen little more than a bit of musical chairs, since those post Kennedy years.
Still, I wager we might inform the frog that his pot has begun to boil.
Once more unto the breach dear friends, as we possibly stop explaining how wrong the internets are, long enough to vote against one of the two weevils. On faith that it makes flippin' rats' patoot on the scale of difference. Just don't think you can return to tweeting your twits, while things change for you. Not to put too fine a point on it, but we most likely deserve the government we get. Especially as we generally confuse it with the cheer leadership that is assigned to spin it to us. What one has to do with the other, besides less and less these days, I'll be stuffed if I know. But as usual, it seems largely between bread or circuses. We should perhaps wax nostalgic over ancient Rome, when we were afforded both.
i have been taught that by clients as well. i represent israeli military dissident scientist roy tov (see his 2 books, The Cross of Bethlehem, and The Cross of Bethlehem 2), who like dissident israeli nuclear weapons worker mordechai vanunu, became so outraged by israeli military policy that he converted from judaism to chirstianity and began his current life threatening war critic career. he has fled mossad across the world, now lives in daily fear at poverty levels in bolivia, where he credits survival to God alone, and warns the
world to do likewise, having spent decades in the belly of the beast, knowing and at one time building what it plans for us all.
failing to confront evil in all forms risks the soul. i think thoreau understood that.
Jesus did not compromise with evil. can you imagine him voting for obama?
THAT is how bad our government is. i believe that there is no political answer to it, not even a protest vote, but since that option is offered, it is the only right option for me. i think there is no compelling argument that electing obama will change a thing for anyone, anywhere, ever. he is now arresting and detaining dissident usa ciitzens without charge and committing them to mental hospitals. see the so called facebook case of former marine dan raub. this is russian style fascism pure and simple.
dan is a friend. i love dan, and respect him greatly. but he is just wrong about this, for spiritual and and political reasons, as far as i am concerned. if you study ghandi, i think this is pretty clear, from the pol-spiritual perspective i am discussing.
Again, i agree with you completely about the dems and think that we need to be relentless in our criticism/criti que but i also think that our decision needs to be based on the very real effect for millions should the repubs win it all. and, here i simply don't think or accept the idea that there is no difference at all or that we are supporting or endorcing evil by trying to keep the repubs out.
I don't care whether you have to take a drug to be able to vote for Obama, voting for Romney is infinitely worse.
I wondered how long it would take before they, (The Corps), would find a good looking drunk in an alley that they could dress up, sober up, and pump money into to do their bidding. Faster than I thought, hence Myth Romoney.
Now stand back because this is where it is going to get really ugly. If Romoney is elected Karl (Joseph Goebbels) Rove and his band of uber control freaks will go after the states and continue to buy the system. As quick as Myth changes his positions on everything the gap between the two parties will be gone. Checkmate!
This link says it all! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ4SSvVbhLw. No one could have summed it up better than George Carlin's "American Dream". The one part that was cut is "You have to be asleep to believe it."
Wake up everyone and welcome to The Brave New World.
How sick is this? Dead American's scattered through out the war fields of the world. They died and were maimed for this? Turning all their sacrifices into a much greater tragedy.
The Rethugicans have committed Economic Crimes against humanity to gain power for their corporate overlords.
Jobs? No, anti choice. Jobs? Healthcare? Forget it. Jobs? No, less regulation.
Who are the real terrorists here?
That said, our flawed democracy unrecoverable in any case, I felt free to vote my conscience. I could not vote for a war-criminal, Barack Obama, the man described by Ellsberg correctly. He is to me an immoral choice. I voted my conscience, for Jill Stein. No matter, Obama or Romney, our country and the world are faced with "the worst of times", as Dickens called them. The American people, their ignorance, greed, and prejudices are the cause. That Ellsberg and Chomsky have not said!
I think your denial of what is as depressing displays an aloofness from the feelings of people. Depression is a frequent reaction to terrible circumstances which cannot be mitigated. One feels anger but with no target that is safe and turns the anger inward. This is the feeling of depression: rage with no way to vent it.
Many of us who do not accept the faux choice of Romney v. Obama and who vote for an alternative candidate (who cannot win) feel the anger I mentioned. Your prescription of intiative and courage is all well and good when you are above the fray, but when you suffer from the consequences of our government's criminal conduct in the world and at home you feel the anger and find venting it not at all easy.
From "On Wasting Your Vote" by MG Piety in Counterpunch:
"If you vote for a democrat because you think of yourself as progressive you are wasting your vote because what you are actually saying is that you are willing to support a candidate who is not really progressive, that the democrats can continue their relentless march to the right and that you will back them all the way. That is, if you vote for a democrat because you say you are progressive, you are saying one thing and doing another. But actions, as everyone knows, speak louder than words. You can go on posturing about how progressive you are, but if you vote for a democrat that posturing is empty."
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/10/12/on-wasting-your-vote/
There is not a single honorable Republican in Washington, save Ray LaHood and not a single honorable Republican governor.
If you think voting for a third party would have any real effect, you're living in a pipe dream.
Vote for “…a tool of Wall Street, a man who's decriminalized torture and is still complicit in it, a drone assassin, someone who's launched an unconstitutiona l war, supports kidnapping and indefinite detention without trial, and has prosecuted more whistleblowers like myself than all previous presidents put together"?
Who “…has often acted outrageously, not merely timidly or "disappointingl y." If impeachment were politically imaginable on constitutional grounds, he's earned it…”?
Do the unthinkable out of expediency?
No thank you, I live by my conscience.
Your specious argument that the other half of the Republocrat duopoly, “…two wings ("two right wings," as some have put it) of a single party, the Property or Plutocracy Party, or as Justin Raimondo says, the War Party…” places us in more jeopardy, is exposed in its fallacy by almost every word of your post.
I watch too many of my heroes from the sixties fall into the ranks of those who would ease our descent into Fascism, make the evil choice of the lesser of two evils.
We have options, almost all of us, among third party candidates, with solutions to our critical problems. Admitted, they will not be elected, but in our vote we have an American opportunity to register our opposition, meaningfully if only enough of us vote our conscience.
www.voterocky.org/solutions
The Obama White House--no secret here--has an 'enemies list' and asserts under Cheney's Unitary Executive doctrine, the unilateral, unfettered right to kill American citizens--or anyone else--on the president's say-so alone. Talk about a chilling effect on free speech...
Would President Obama be apt to officially order action vs an uncooperative Clinton or Ellsberg?
Not likely.
But who is going to stop him if he does?
Antonin Scalia?
Too many have drunk the koolaid, bought the hype.
On the right, there are far too many of the Tea Party persuasion who will vote against Obama, regardless of their distaste for Romney.
On the left, there are far too many who are so afraid of Romney that they will hold their nose and vote for Obama.
On some other planet, there are a minority who actually believe that Obama deserves another term, or that Romney deserves a shot at it.
There is another minority. My minority who understand that Obama has disqualified himself for the reasons clearly pointed out by Daniel Ellsberg, and that there is ample prima facie evidence that Romney is unfit to serve. We will vote our conscience, Rocky Anderson in my case.
If you are from ID, OK, or UT, where Romney has more than a 25% lead, or even AL, AK, AR, KY, LA, TX, or WV, where it’s more than 15%, or if you are from HI or VT, where it’s Obama by more than 25%, or even CA, MD, MA, NY, or RI, with Obama by more than 15%, please consider looking critically at all options, including third party candidates on the ballot or approved for write in, and vote your conscience.
Vote for which ever candidate most closely reflects your positions and solutions.
Join us in sending a message that we are angry, and that we don't intend to continue to put up with this travesty.
www.voterocky.org/solutions
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