Krugman writes: "Was Mr. Romney lying? Well, either that or he was making what amounts to a sick joke."

Portrait, New York Times columnist Paul Krugman, 06/15/09. (photo: Fred R. Conrad/NYT)

Romney's Sick Joke (Part 2)

By Paul Krugman, The New York Times

05 October 12

o. 1," declared Mitt Romney in Wednesday's debate, "pre-existing conditions are covered under my plan." No, they aren't - as Mr. Romney's own advisers have conceded in the past, and did again after the debate.

Was Mr. Romney lying? Well, either that or he was making what amounts to a sick joke. Either way, his attempt to deceive voters on this issue was the biggest of many misleading and/or dishonest claims he made over the course of that hour and a half. Yes, President Obama did a notably bad job of responding. But I'll leave the theater criticism to others and talk instead about the issue that should be at the heart of this election.

So, about that sick joke: What Mr. Romney actually proposes is that Americans with pre-existing conditions who already have health coverage be allowed to keep that coverage even if they lose their job - as long as they keep paying the premiums. As it happens, this is already the law of the land. But it's not what anyone in real life means by having a health plan that covers pre-existing conditions, because it applies only to those who manage to land a job with health insurance in the first place (and are able to maintain their payments despite losing that job). Did I mention that the number of jobs that come with health insurance has been steadily declining over the past decade?

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+154 # Barbara K 2012-10-05 10:16

We need to face it. Romneyhood is a psycho. He lies and lies and thinks he doesn't need to tell the truth. He is the personification of a psychopath. We are wise to his lies, and that is not who we want to put in as President. There is nothing presidential about him, no matter how many acting classes he takes. He can't even give an honest smile, it comes out as a smirk. I don't think the majority of Americans are stupid enough to vote for this empty suited bully. We have to make sure we get out and make sure that our President is re-elected. A Romneyhood presidency is a nightmare I don't want to have; and I don't think the majority do either. Get out and VOTE, make sure you help all you can to get to the polls and make phone calls and volunteer with the Democrats to be sure this is a fair election. Hang around voting polls when you have time and make sure all is on the up-and-up and make sure that voters have their questions answered honestly and that no voter is turned away. We can do it, after all we are Americans.

OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
The alternative is a disaster.

+5 # AMLLLLL 2012-10-06 11:21

I agree with your assessment; no wonder the little Missus is worried about his emotional well-being...

+116 # Susan1989 2012-10-05 10:21

It is obvious that Romney was lying as he does so often. I met him a decade ago at a small celebration and noted that he gives off terrible energy...very very bad vibes. I read during the Republican debates that the other candidates were seriuosly repulsed by him. There are some people like this (thankfully few) who actually suck the air out of the room, and based upon my experience, Romney is one of them. It is one thing for 7 or 8 debaters to share a stage with him, but doing it one on one must be excrutiating... and I suspect this my have been part od the reason for why Obama could not look him in the eye...because Romney gives off evil energy. If you notice the way he smiles, holds his head, laughs, and his expressions and lack of hand gesture...Romne y appears to be one mean dude...but in a strange way. I don't think that most of us have ever experienced this...because thankfullu it is relatively rare...but when you do you will know it as it sucks the life out of you.

+42 # bmiluski 2012-10-05 11:41

Also, President Obama has absolute comtempt for romney. That's why it was hard for him to look romne in the face.

+15 # JanisL 2012-10-06 07:28

Agreed. I think the president rushed right back to the White House and took a long, hot shower to get the stench of being on the same stage with that sleazebag!

+74 # NanFan 2012-10-05 12:16

Susan, you are absolutely right! I have been in a room with a need to confront a very evil person about some lies he had told to a not-for-profit organization that I was president of; he was a board member.

I nailed the bum, but as I walked out of his office with my assistant, I said, "Did you feel the evil in that room?" She said she had had such a bad feeling just from the man that she had felt like running or throwing up.

It is why President Obama could not look at Mitt Romney (whom I wish they would stop calling "Governor"), but he simply HAS to from here on out. Romney will always tell lies; that's why he's gotten this far; he's backed by liars and cheats and amoral people just like him. But the president MUST call him out on his lies, face-to-face, naming dates and quoting Romney or his campaign people. Stick it to him with the facts and ONLY the facts, and while they are on the same stage.

This election should not even be close, but it CAN and WILL be stolen...and we have a history of allowing these things to happen.

Also, think about it. What do the American people revere most: the way someone looks, I'm sad to say. We're a bunch of "star f***ers."

Anything can happen. And Romney winning this election would be the epitome of evil in the White House...again.. . remember W.

N.

+38 # in deo veritas 2012-10-05 13:14

Much the same thing that those who encountered Uncle Adolf said about him. He too practiced before every speech.

+12 # Doll 2012-10-05 15:32

Evil eye

+10 # ispeakup 2012-10-06 12:17

Susan, your observation is amazingly accurate. I felt as though President Obama's energy had been totally drained ...very uncharacteristi c of him! This could also explain why it was so difficult for viewers to watch. I've been told by several friends that they had to turn the TV off. Thank you for sharing your insight. You're right on! A Romney win would be disastrous!

+69 # humanmancalvin 2012-10-05 10:55

Google: Mormons and lying. You may be surprised to learn that the LDS supports lying to advance its cause. This all started with the churches leader Joseph Smith lying about his plural wives to avoid prosecution and has continued as a way of life especially if the lies are aimed at "Gentiles", the name given by LDS'ers for all those outside of their faith.
While extremely non-religious myself, I fully support others right to believe & practice what they may as long as it causes no harm to others. The anti-Muslim rhetoric in the US is sickening & deserves the respect that should be given as to the LDS church. This said, the LDS tradition of lying is quite clear when candidate Romney opens his mouth. Google it, no crappola.

-28 # dbriz 2012-10-05 13:30

Quick! We're in trouble, play the Mormon card!

Lock up the children!

It may surprise you to know that lying isn't confined to the Mormon religion. Much more broad based. Actually, been around a lot longer Mormonism.

A guy named Machiavelli was a strong supporter of it.

It has proven useful for all sorts of politicians ever since. Even, gasp, some you have likely voted for wholeheartedly.

I have well documented my dislike of the GOP and Romney, however I also have no problem expressing the same toward tribal crap like this.

You are likely one of those who whines incessantly when the righties refer to Obama as a Communist with a "secret agenda".

A plague on both houses.

+9 # Linda 2012-10-06 05:27

Obviously dbriz you have no idea how much of their belief is based on lies .
You might also consider the fact that Romney is a Bishop in the LDS church and what it takes to get that position !
I have been to their church and studied the bible with them . The first lie they tell you is that they believe in Jesus Christ .
It would seem true when you see a picture of Christ on the wall in their hall until you get into bible study and your told to turn to the back of the book and learn the story of Joseph Smith and the golden tablets he supposedly was given by an angel .It's then you become aware that Joseph Smith is their profit and Jesus is never mentioned !
These right wing christian's who support Romney have no clue that he doesn't believe in their Jesus or their bible !
Like you I don't care what anyone believes as long as its left out of our legislature . Do you honestly think any religious zealot who becomes President wouldn't put their beliefs into legislation?
I do think its important that people understand Romney's Mormon beliefs if they want to understand the man who wants to become President of our country and his motivations.
Google the president of the Mormon church .
Here is a quote from chad a member of the church :Thomas S. Monson (the president of the church ) who is authorized to hold the power and authority (priesthood)of God and act in his name for the World !
For The World not just the church !

+7 # dbriz 2012-10-06 07:10

My dear Linda...I am old enough to recall quite vividly the angst, indeed venom, cast at the prospect of JFK, a (gasp) Papist being electable as President. Most of the fears you express about Romney are exactly the same expressed about Kennedy.

I am well aware of the tenets of Mormonism having spent a great deal of time in the western strongholds in Arizona, Nevada and California. I would am confident my knowledge of them is at least equal to yours.

Far be it from me to defend them or Joseph Smith. He has come under criticism from many sources even within the Mormon Church. You may want to google Fawn Brodie and Leonard Arrington if you are interested.

I suspect the angel/golden tablets story is about as believable as the story about a certain itinerant rabbi's ability to immediately turn water into wine.

Do you withhold your vote from those who believe that story?

How about Harry Reid, Reps. Jim Matheson and Tom Udall? Democrats all, and Mormons. Do you recommend a vote against them for the same reasons?

I am viscerally opposed to Romney and the GOP. But the idea that a President, any President, by himself can create a theocracy is simplistic, tribal hogwash.

Promoting this kind of BS in a political campaign is unworthy of legitimate political discourse and makes its presenters no better than the right wing slanderers they so detest.

-13 # jerryball 2012-10-05 14:04

The other religion that advocates lying in order to win at any means is Islam. It advocates underhanded deceptions in battle and excuses it unequivocably to suit the victorious ends.

+23 # Majikman 2012-10-05 14:17

The Christian right wing has good cause to distrust the Mormon issue and we all should pay attention. Romney's religion is intrinsic to his political ambition to be president. Check out Salon's "White Horse Prophesy" http://www.salon.com/2012/01/29/mitt_and_the_white_horse_prophecy/
which in a nutshell says the Mormons will take over the government and run it as a theodemocracy.
What fun..our own American Taliban.

+30 # Patch 2012-10-05 16:03

Religious Fundamentalism, of all kinds, is the root cause of most, if not all, the evil in this world.

So, while those here have pointed a finger at Mormons, and Islamists, and Christians, there is no need to single one or the other out. They're ALL bad!

+59 # kelly 2012-10-05 11:10

I don't know how anybody can believe that. I felt physically sick watching those lies fly from his mouth. All I could do was hope that people will care enough to check facts.
But, like the superbowl, many people wait and tune in for the sound bytes and the commentary at the end to hear the pundits tell them who won. That's why we have truly uninformed voters. We don't have to go to Factcheck.org, we could go to yesterday's paper for chrissakes to see the change in Mitt's stance or see the way the numbers won't or can't add up. It's easier to take our opinions from a "name". We get mad if a celebrity from Hollywood takes a political stand but we raise our pundits up to celebrity status(Rush, Colter, and yes, Jackson).
I am one of those directly affectled by these ACA benefits and hope like hell that no one buys the BS Mitt is spewing. Under Bush, 67 doctors who should have seen me for my cancer(I have medicare/medica id) refused. Under Obama, just 2 years later, I called only one.

+23 # pernsey 2012-10-05 20:53

I thought he had a creepy smile while Obama was talking. He just didnt look right.

+63 # ahaywood 2012-10-05 11:15

Romney has nothing on Batman's Joker! I am a 46%er and I heard what he said, it is etched in my mind..and I repeatedly hear his words at that meeting with the rich over and over and no matter what lies he told at that debate won't remove those ugly words from it. This man is a Pinocchio and his noise should be growing every time he tells his lies. DON'T BE A FOOL, THIS IS A DANGEROUS MAN WHO if elected will put the final nail in the coffin and Ryan will get his wish to demolish our country as we know it. The Republican Party's fantacy to run this country on their sick conservative ideology path to make us their servants and puppets will finally come true for them..and the rest of us, as far as they are concerned, can go straight to hell. Not on my watch!! My Vote goes where it counts for the people.

+18 # basilissa 2012-10-05 11:21

Susan1989 -- you make me wonder if Romney is a Dementor? From your description, that's what it sounds like.

+6 # pernsey 2012-10-05 20:57

Quoting basilissa:

Susan1989 -- you make me wonder if Romney is a Dementor? From your description, that's what it sounds like.

I think that I agree with you on this, a dementor makes one feel demented.

+34 # dick 2012-10-05 11:28

Hopefully, slovenly, uninspired, utterly unimpressive Barry gave Mitt enuf rope to hang himself. It's not enuf that PK fans read this. Obama campaign should FLOOD the universe with evidence that show's R's "strong performance" was based on lies & turn a positive into a negative for Mitt. Has to happen B4 the VP debate.

+21 # crinvegas 2012-10-05 12:35

I think the media has already flooded the universe with the evidence. I heard Obama's performance can be blamed on his advisors. They told him to go easy on Romney, because it wouldn't look good to kick a man whan he's down. Bad advice, it it is true.

+24 # Majikman 2012-10-05 13:35

On the flip side of that, if Obama came off attacking every lie Twit said, the repugs would have a field day with the "angry black man" meme. Calling someone a liar, and doing it with aplomb is difficult at best...doing it for the entire "performance" and he loses on his own positive record.

+62 # cherylpetro 2012-10-05 11:33

Romney is mentally ill. Ann Romney alluded to it, and now we know it is seriously true!

+34 # Eduardo3 2012-10-05 13:52

I don't appreciate the insult to mentally ill people. Romney is a sane, ruthless man.

+62 # Texas Aggie 2012-10-05 11:58

Snow White, Superman and Pinocchio are walking along.

They see a sign: "Contest for World's Most Beautiful Woman." Snow White goes in, later comes out smiling, wearing a crown.

They walk along and see another sign: "Contest for World's Strongest Man." Superman goes in, later comes out smiling, wearing the belt.

They walk along and see a sign: "Contest for World's Greatest Liar." Pinocchio goes in, later comes out with his head down crying. "Who the hell is Mitt Romney?" Pinocchio sobs.

+16 # Barbara K 2012-10-05 14:12

Texas Aggie: Love it! lol

+7 # angelfish 2012-10-05 21:03

VERY Good, Tex! LOL!

+19 # BJH 2012-10-05 12:40

Maybe it's called "Lying for the Lord." Lying for the greater good (of whom, I don't know).
http://www.mormonwiki.org/Lying_for_the_Lord

+7 # in deo veritas 2012-10-05 13:22

If the Lord loves liars why is hell so full of them and more of our generation (Bush, Cheney, Romney,ad nauseum) on the way there the sooner the better. I read somewhere that Muslims are taught to do the same thing for Allah but maybe that is just more Islamophobia.

+5 # Linda 2012-10-06 05:39

Exactly this is what they really believe and why Romney is dangerous !

+19 # Abigail 2012-10-05 13:29

I had the impression that President Obama was very tired. I don't know how his day had been prior to the debate, but he did not look like his usual exuberant self.

+17 # Doll 2012-10-05 15:44

It was his and his wife's 20th wedding aniversary. Why would he want to spend it with Romney? I wouldn't even like to spend my aniversary with Romney if I was married to him.

+16 # soularddave 2012-10-05 15:47

At one mile of altitude, there is 17% less oxygen in the air as compared to sea level. He arrived at 2pm, and had little time to acclimate. Perhaps this was a factor that threw him off his "game".

+3 # soularddave 2012-10-05 15:53

look at the times on these comments - virtually the same I don't think Shirley is referring to Abigail's comment, but rather, to Barack's opponent.

That being said, I give both comments a "thumb up".

+11 # pernsey 2012-10-05 21:01

Quoting Abigail:

I had the impression that President Obama was very tired. I don't know how his day had been prior to the debate, but he did not look like his usual exuberant self.

Romney sucks the air out of the room with his demented smile and his dozens of lies. Im sure it was exhausting just listening to that sociopath lie.

+3 # Regina 2012-10-06 09:07

He had a few more chores to take care of, he didn't have the time to spare for "rehearsals." Mitt isn't qualified for that job.

+17 # Shirley in Berkeley 2012-10-05 13:30

What he looks like doesn't matter. What he sounds like doesn't matter. It's what he does and says that matter, especially compared with the truth, and compared with what he said last time he said it, and of course what he's done.

I doubt that he identifies his lies as lies, because he believes that if it's expedient to say it, it becomes the truth — the true mark of a psychopath.

+28 # angelfish 2012-10-05 13:36

Willard Mitt Romney IS a sick joke. Be afraid, dear folks. Most of the Dimwits in the ReTHUGlican Party think he's the neatest thing since sliced bread! Never mind that mendacity is their Stock in Trade. Their ENTIRE Party is BASED on Lie after Lie after Lie, but Boy, doesn't he LOOK Presidential? That's ALL they care about, the facade of competence, to Hell with actually BEING competent! With Unemployment numbers down to 7.8% his Hacks are accusing the President's Staff of "manipulating the numbers to make him look good". They are so desperate to discredit this President, I believe there is NOTHING they wouldn't say or do to fulfill their Goal of making him a "one term President". In the meantime, remember to never, EVER vote ReTHUGlican.

+12 # Regina 2012-10-05 22:02

It's even worse -- the ultra-extremist s are using Romney because he just lusts for the presidency, he's desperate for it, and has run in previous election years. So far, this is his first actual candidacy. Some posters have commented in the fact that his father failed to make it to the WH, and maybe that's part of what's driving Mitty. It's that big dream that makes him etch-a-sketch his opinions -- anything to gain approval and support, no matter how off-the-wall and outside the Constitution.

+30 # independentmind 2012-10-05 13:42

I have been making calls for the Obama campaign over the last few weeks and one of the things that has come up quite a few times - and I am in Ohio in a very republican area - "my company has raised it's insurance rates because of Obamacare" and "my company is no longer offering healthcare because of Obamacare".

Is this an attempt by companies to nudge people into voting republican?
Do these people really think that once Romney is in their rates will go down?

+12 # seniorcitizen 2012-10-05 21:40

The people who are complaining about their company's insurance rates, need to know that they have a choice of whether to accept the company policy. There are a lot of insurance exchanges under "Obamacare", and also help with premiums for people who can't afford it. They will not have that choice if Romney gets in and overhauls everything.

+38 # omacindy 2012-10-05 13:53

I'm shocked and so deeply grateful that so many folks had exactly the experience I and my husband had: could not bear to look at Romney's face while he talked, it felt like looking at "friendly evil." I don't like to use that word, but evil is exactly what I felt behind those smiles. "I like to fire people," he said. It's sadism, taking pleasure in hurting others. It's only taken two days, but the sickening realization is now out all over the media: this man is sick, is a liar, a bully and very dangerous.

+27 # seniorcitizen 2012-10-05 15:49

Those so-called smiles are not really smiles that go to the eyes and make us think we are seeing someone who cares about us. They are sneers and benevolent put down smirks. The liar,Romney is not presidential, but is a snake oil salesman. He is another G.W Bush, with a big lie. Bush saw a chance to make America believe that 9/11 was caused by Iraq. He looked us right in the face and made America believe it.We are still feeling the results of the Iraq war. It was all built on a gigantic and trumped up plan to gain oil riches. Ask yourself, what does Romney want to gain from being President of the United States? He shows a great interest in Israel. He is friendly with and accepted a great deal of money from a man who wants to go to war with Israel's enemies. A war in the Middle East is he last thing that America needs. The easy way to be President is to pick the weakest spot,which is the economy, and promise a plan that he says will fix it. Then come up with a false set of numbers, that keep changing with the shake of the etch-a-sketch. Next is an extreme agenda, which insists that any move toward recovery is impossible if the rich are not allowed to trickle down the wealth and "create jobs" due to a tax break that was been granted under the same president that caused the economy to crash and almost put us into another depression. This un-tax has not created any jobs,but it has caused revenue to drop, and our coffers are empty. We need a FDR now, not a G.W Bush all over again.

+23 # X Dane 2012-10-05 14:33

I hope the wealthy democrats, who are finally starting to get involved will flood the airwaves with the Romney lies,........FA ST

+20 # vegaspat 2012-10-05 16:28

You know, I hope all you people that seem to see the situation in the bright light of day, will get out and VOTE

+13 # Beali973 2012-10-05 20:01

We all need to do more than vote. We need to contribute to the Democratic organizations that will create ads which will show what a LIAR Romney is. Give up a few drinks or whatever for a worthy effort. We will know that at the end of the day we did what we could to help each out by exposing Mitt's slime.

+17 # ALinSTL 2012-10-05 20:24

All these years of listening to all religions berating us all about the coming of the ANTICHRIST & THEY ALL MISSED THAT THE GOP NOMINATED HIM FOR POTUS?????? If, God forbid, he is elected, how soon will he start the USA-Iran war where your kids & mine will die for him & his Churche's "White Horse" objective?!?!?! ?! OUR KIDS!!!!!!!!!
As a Mormon bishop, how soon will he start taking orders on how to run the USA from his Mormon Church Bosses (if he isn't already)?!?!?!? !?!? They mean more to him than we do....

+15 # eldoryder 2012-10-06 04:06

OK, let's focus like a laser beam on the MOST important issue facing us in a Presidential choice this time around. After that debate performance WHICH candidate would you trust to appoint a LIFETIME member to the Supreme Court? Imagine the kind of candidate Romney would put in there, then imagine (by using Sotomeyer and Kagan as examples), the kind of centrist candidate that President Obama may get two, three or maybe FOUR chances to appoint in the next four years.

These lifetime commitments mean that the actions of the Supreme Court often have more impact than the next four or five Presidents.

THIS, above all else, is the single most important issue facing us, as all other movements by the Legislative and Executive Branch can be reviewed by the Supreme Court.

YES your vote counts....THIS time more than ever before. Don't let Romney destroy the future.

+7 # RMDC 2012-10-06 04:50

Romoney was lying or he just did not know. But in general he talks like a businessman -- he says whatever he thinks his listeners need to hear in order to move over to his side. That's how executives talk. They are not analysts or scientists. They want to close the deal. So what do people need to hear in order to close the deal.

Romoney lied quite a bit. And a lot of his figures did not add up or were just impossible. How's he going to cut tax rates but not add to the deficit. Eliminating deductions? Not a chance. Corporations have tax lawyers who can find a deduction in a pile of shit. No member of congress will vote to eliminate the home mortgage deduction, about the only deduction the middle class has. So he's either lying or blowing smoke. But the promise of reduced tax rates is music to most people's ears.

Romoney is a vulture capitalist. When he is president he will loot the nation just like the Bushes or Reagan did. There is no doubt about that.

Obama and Clinton have been more fiscally responsible than any republican ever has been, though they cut government spending on the backs of the poor.

Obama is more likely to destroy social security and medicare than Romoney. But in the end both will do it.

+7 # Majikman 2012-10-06 09:17

RMDC, I usually like a lot of your posts but your last statement "Obama is more likely to destroy social security and medicare than Romoney." is a head scratcher. Why do you think that?

0 # Activista 2012-10-07 10:41

"Obama is more likely to destroy social security and medicare than Romoney" Obama, giving his background, survives by compromise - if Ro-money party wants vouchers, Obama will "save" 10% of social security and give 90%. This is Obama trend.
Of course Obama will NOT cut military - is afraid of generals.

+5 # ThinkRodan 2012-10-06 06:40

I am really surprised with how RSN readers ANALYZE the sick mentality of MITT ROMNEY! It appears that they understand the EVIL MENTALITY of MITT ROMNEY,and have associated it with his disdain for the truth and lack of compassion for REAL AMERICANS!

+10 # tanis 2012-10-06 08:32

why would we want to give such a person as the Romney described above the power of presidency? Furthermore his election opens the gate for what Colbert calls "a canned ham with glasses", Karl Rove, to come back into our lives with all the potential power he longs for. Think of the possibilities allowed down the line such as 2016 and Jeb Bush as the candidate. I am so disappointed by the term 'american dream' when what we should be doing is opening our eyes and WAKING UP. We keep losing our powers as citizens. Wake up to reality. Democracy is leaking away, folks!

+1 # Midwestgeezer 2012-10-07 06:31

Mitt Romney brings to mind a guy named Arlen, a Canadian outfitter we once utilized. Whenever we voiced a complaint Arlen would tell Chris,his trusty sidekick: "Make a note of that!" When, after many of those complaints had been "noted" without action being taken, I asked Chris what he did with them. He said: "Everything Arlen says, he wants to be true."
I'm sure that that wish is also Mitt Romney's.

0 # seniorcitizen 2012-10-09 11:57

It is doubtful that Romney will change from the tactics of lying about and criticizing President Obama in their next debate or ever. If there is anything that Romney is consistent about, it is unfair attacks. How does someone stand up to a bully and call him out as a liar? To do so is against President Obama's style. He is someone who wants to bring about unity. It will be impossible to catch each Romney lie and throw it back, because they are like arrows, which are delivered in a quick and forceful, convincing way. It takes a day to compile a list and then refute each one. Besides that, to put oneself in the role of having to defend your position, is giving power to the other, because it comes across as being in a subordinate position. What would work best,is to treat Romney as the bully he is, and plow in with a strong attack on him. Show his lies, and follow through, showing how any of his proposals would hurt the nation. I like the way that Ronald Reagan would say, "there you go again". Don't be afraid to mock him.President Obama needs to show what he wants to accomplish. On jobs, give details of what he proposes, and what Congress needs to do. He should not say "when you are president" to Romney, but "if you are elected" Most of all, the president needs to take charge and stay in charge. Stop being "nice". Stand and deliver! Fight for us, our country cannot stand a Romney presidency.

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