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Erlanger writes: "How Socialist is Francois Hollande? And what does it mean to be a Socialist these days, anyway?"

French President Francois Hollande at the Elysee presidential Palace in Paris, 06/26/12. (photo: Getty Images)
French President Francois Hollande at the Elysee presidential Palace in Paris, 06/26/12. (photo: Getty Images)



What's a Socialist?

By Steven Erlanger, The New York Times

02 July 12

 

FRANCE has elected its first Socialist president since 1988 and then given the Socialist Party and its closest allies a whopping majority in Parliament. But how Socialist is François Hollande? And what does it mean to be a Socialist these days, anyway?

Not very much. Certainly nothing radical. In a sense, socialism was an ideology of the industrialized 19th century, a democratic Marxism, and it succeeded, even in (shh!) the United States. Socialism meant the emancipation of the working class and its transformation into the middle class; it championed social justice and a progressive tax system, and in that sense has largely done its job. As the industrialized working class gets smaller and smaller, socialism seems to have less and less to say.

Center-right parties have embraced or absorbed many of the ideas of socialism: trade unions, generous welfare benefits, some form of nationalized health care, even restrictions on carbon emissions. The right argues that it can manage all these programs more efficiently than the left, and some want to shrink them, but only on the fringes is there talk of actually dismantling the welfare state.

"As an ideologically based movement, socialism is no longer vital," says Joschka Fischer, who began his career on the far left and remains a prominent spokesman for the Green Party. "Today it's a combination of democracy, rule of law and the welfare state, and I'd say a vast majority of Europeans defend this - the British Tories can't touch the National Health Service without being beheaded."

Even in the United States, Mr. Fischer says, "you have a sort of welfare state, even if you don't want to admit it - you don't allow people to die on the street."

So why the prospect of "European socialism" is so frightening to some Americans puzzles Europeans, a mystery as deep as the American obsession with abortion or affection for the death penalty.

Daniel Cohn-Bendit, a leader of the student revolt of May 1968, known then as "Dany the Red," is now "Dany the Green," co-leader of the ecologist group in the European Parliament. "The fight between private property and state property is over," he says, and traditional class distinctions are blurred. "There was never a purely socialist working class," he suggested. "Socialism and social democracy today are about a society with more solidarity, more protection of people, more egalitarianism." In a way, he said, socialism is defined today mostly by its contrast to neo-liberalism - by more reliance on the state and higher taxes on the wealthy.

Bernard-Henri Lévy was criticized three years ago for saying that the French Socialist Party was not merely dying, but "already dead," a political alternative for those unhappy with Nicolas Sarkozy, then the president, but little more than a differently situated elite. France's "gauche caviar" - wealthy socialists like Dominique Strauss-Kahn or Jack Lang - were hardly revolutionary, but merely took their neckties off at lunch.

TODAY Mr. Lévy has not changed his views. "There are no more socialists - if they were honest they would change the name of the party," he told me. Socialism "evokes the nightmare of the Soviet Union, whose leaders named themselves socialists." Today, he maintains, European socialists are essentially like American Democrats - there has been no ideological left in France that matters since the effective demise of the Communist Party, which was "the true 'exception française.' "

In his book "Barbarism with a Human Face," translated into English as "Left in Dark Times: A Stand Against the New Barbarism," Mr. Lévy wrote: "I would dream of writing in a dictionary for the year 2000: 'Socialism, masculine noun, a cultural genre born in Paris in 1848, died in Paris in 1968.' "

But democratic socialism of the nonbarbaric kind has a long history in Europe, especially in France. Even today, delegates at the Socialist Party's summer meetings address one another as "Comrade," a gesture to the past for a party largely made up of academics and bureaucrats - in other words, state functionaries, of whom there are many in France. The French state represents 56.6 percent of gross domestic product, one of the highest figures in the Western world.

"Socialism here is very statist," says Marc-Olivier Padis, editor of the quarterly journal Esprit. The leading figures in the Socialist government are more creatures of the French establishment - elite schools and careers - than those under Mr. Sarkozy, he explained, "a combination reproducing the profile of Hollande himself." Mr. Sarkozy was more of an outlier than Mr. Hollande, and much closer to business.

Belief in the centrality of the state to run, regulate and innovate remains a core belief of French socialism, and the size of the state is hardly going to be reduced under Mr. Hollande, whose few concrete promises include hiring 60,000 more teachers over five years, raising the minimum wage (the highest in the European Union) and creating a state bank for innovation.

Alain-Gérard Slama, noting that Mr. Hollande won the presidency thanks to half of centrist voters and a third of far-right voters, all of whom detested Mr. Sarkozy, wrote in the newspaper Le Figaro that "the French don't do anything like anyone else - they'll give themselves a Socialist president, a Socialist Assembly, a Socialist Senate, Socialist regions, while, by a clear majority, they are not Socialist."

To be honest, who is anymore? "Is socialism really more than pragmatism?" Mr. Padis wonders. Mr. Lévy pointed out that the excitement around the far-left French presidential candidate, Jean-Luc Mélenchon, got hearts racing for a while. But the rabble-rousing Mr. Mélenchon did not do as well as many hoped (or feared). This month he was trounced for an Assembly seat by Marine Le Pen. "Some believed the French exception was undergoing a revival with Mélenchon," Mr. Lévy said. He then aptly quoted Marx's famous line about Louis Bonaparte, that "history repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce."

 

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+77 # bluepilgrim 2012-07-02 18:56
As a socialist, I can only say I knew more about what socialism was before reading this than after! LOL

If anyone wants to know what socialism is, better to read WSWS.org , socialistworker .org , rdwolff.com (Socialist/neoM arxist), socialistworker .co.uk/ , and otherwise read what the socialist have to say (and expect to find variations and disagreements about things).

No, European socialists are not like American Democrats -- he's thinking if the current crop of socialist democrats, not democratic socialists. Most parties in Europe who call themselves socialists have sold out much of socialism, such as with supporting austerity -- they have gone significantly to the right and away from the rights of the people.

Reading someone from the NY Times write about socialism is like reading what Souther Baptists say about the scientific method and evolution.
 
 
+11 # anarchteacher 2012-07-02 20:50
Bluepilgrim:

Excellent comments and observations, particularly your last sentence.
 
 
+19 # Tazio 2012-07-02 23:05
Our National Park system is one of the best and most original things about America, but isn't it Socialism?
 
 
+16 # jwb110 2012-07-03 10:21
Quoting Tazio:
Our National Park system is one of the best and most original things about America, but isn't it Socialism?

..And if the GOP/TP had their way the Park System would privatize and disappear by way of the lumber industry....
 
 
+10 # noitall 2012-07-03 15:59
and then you'd have another over-priced golf course.
 
 
+2 # mdhome 2012-07-06 09:30
"you don't allow people to die on the street." Another thing the GOP would change if they could. I refer you to the debate where they shouted "let him die" when asked about someone without insurance.
 
 
+15 # 666 2012-07-03 03:48
Blue pilgrim - totally agreed. This goes with the corporatist editorial and is just another in the Times series to make the world safe for fascism by destroying the left. Most of it, if not outright bullshit, is poorly written, erroneous and/or contradictory.

Workers of the World, UNITE!
 
 
+34 # Glen 2012-07-03 04:46
Thanks bluepilgrim. The word socialism is used as a weapon in the U.S. rather than a realistic concept of policy. The U.S. government has promoted using the word to insult programs meant to assist citizens.

The propaganda has been very successful in that Americans don't have much of an education that is realistic in American history.
 
 
+9 # noitall 2012-07-03 16:02
American's ignorance of political science, history, and smothering in propaganda causes Americans to work against themselves and their own interests. Any 'socialism' going on in American families?
 
 
+25 # fliteshare 2012-07-02 21:13
Economist can tell you HOW an economy works.
Socialists understand WHY an economy exists.
 
 
+33 # dickmail 2012-07-02 22:09
Most countries are socialist. Socialism gives us schools, roads, damns, police, military, hostpitals, sewer systems, water systems, medical research, and even built our railroads. socialism helps clean our air, provides medical services for military veterans, (VA health system & hospitals are socialist)and the list goes on. Without socialism we cannot have capitalism, end of story.
 
 
0 # mdhome 2012-07-06 09:33
Yes, shout it from the hilltops and in the streets. Why do so few realize this?
 
 
+14 # idirs 2012-07-02 22:42
Socialism simply means a political system that prioritizes interest of "all" the people. (pro: choice of the people; Con: people have conflicting choices).

Capitalism simply means a political system that prioritizes interest of the individual and organized groups. (pro: choice of the individuals; con: individuals are not equally strengthened or equally powerful to make decision or act)

Communism simply means a political system that prioritizes interest of the state. (pro: can't argue with the state; con: can't argue with the state, plus the state is run by a clan of loyalist.

These are the simplest ways of understanding and differentiating these political systems. If you observe carefully, you will see that every country and every state has a bit of each system, except leaning towards one more than another. Of cause, these are the basic principles but they are all out applicable rules. So, let's simplify. The question now -- is Francois Hollande a good leader for France or not? Actually, that question has already been answered by the French people. They think he is. Europeans have other serious issue threatening their stability. Little countries are growing up around the world and they are running their own businesses (principles of excluded middle). This is the end of easy access to wealth... The new term of endearment is true love and we are watching it unfold. Empathy is next.
 
 
+7 # bluepilgrim 2012-07-03 10:18
Not communism, but Stalinism is statist. Communism can be very anarchistic without a state at all. USSR was oligarchical state capitalism -- not communism. BUt anarchism is another demonized and often misunderstood word, a victim of dysinformation and propaganda.

All of these are primarily economic systems, or about 'political economy' -- it's hard to separate politics form economics.

Capitalism is a system where the means of production are in private hands, not one that "prioritizes interest of the individual and organized groups", and is often very much against individuals and individual rights.

Don't just invent definitions -- there's been way too much of that. The words already mean things. Look these words up in wikipedia (for a start), which has good discussion about them and the history.
 
 
+9 # Bigfella 2012-07-02 23:52
Even in the United States, Mr. Fischer says, "you have a sort of welfare state, even if you don't want to admit it - you don't allow people to die on the street."
Since when?
I laught at this artical and in Australia we have folks writting into papers claiming we have a SOCIALIST government as though this was true.
Unfortunatly we havent had one since 1938.
To day what passes for a socialist is what used to pass as a tory dry wig,the whole system has moved to the right of center...Now the Left is were the right used to be. Sad the young ones don't know this and believe those who call for safty net SOCIALIST...min d I have meet a few of late but not in political parties.

I agree with you on that one Bluepilgrim as usual your spot on!
 
 
+3 # Valleyboy 2012-07-02 23:57
Agreed bluepilgrim, most of the "socialist" parties in europe support neo-liberal economics!

Also, the quote from the green party guy is very ill-informed. I live in london, the tories have finally forced through their bill to privatise the NHS, even though it wasn't on their manifesto and no-one (doctors, nurses, patients) wants it.!

"As an ideologically based movement, socialism is no longer vital," says Joschka Fischer, who began his career on the far left and remains a prominent spokesman for the Green Party. "Today it's a combination of democracy, rule of law and the welfare state, and I'd say a vast majority of Europeans defend this - the British Tories can't touch the National Health Service without being beheaded."
 
 
-54 # brucbaker 2012-07-03 00:52
CAPITALISM can spend it's OWN MONEY and embrace some small percentage of Socialism, but SOCIALISM cannot exist without CAPITALISM as it's very existence is ... SPENDING OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY.

It is MY OBSERVATION that the MAJORITY of Unions members don't even know their Unions are based upon a SOCIALIST MODEL and they are SUPPORTING SOCIALISM ... not Capitalism.

Don't believe me? Ask Union members is they are Socialist and the majority will tell you they are not.

The MINORITY Of Democrats who are voicing the SOCIALIST MANTRA are those at the TOP OF THE ECONOMIC FOOD CHAIN who receive the monetary benefits. When you have more money in hand than you can spend.. why not go with the socialism model that TAKES OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY? THEREIN .. Lies the problem.

The real wake up call that SOCIALISM is leading to failure in the USA is the INABILITY to pay down the TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN DEBT and the CONTINUING Democrat SPENDING BINGE OF OTHER People's money that goes on today .. with OBAMA-CARE a prime example.

Give people jobs, and you generate income for the PUBLIC FUND in which you can AFFORD SOCIAL PROGRAMS! Obama... and our Democrats who have been in charge since 2007 have led the USA into BANKRUPTCY!
 
 
+18 # soularddave 2012-07-03 06:56
When the banks get TRILLIONS, and optional wars get TRILLIONS, its Socialism. Never mind a few BILLION here and there for roads, schools, libraries, or health care.

The "economy" may need "imaginary funny money" to operate, but the personal profits of the oligarcs (ie Romney) is just derived by undue exploitation of an unjust system where Capitalism set up it's own Socialist system for itself. They wheel and deal in "digital dollars" not available to the rest of us.
 
 
+34 # pianosaurus rex 2012-07-03 07:39
Just so I have this correct; capitalism can spend its own money you state. Well the financial meltdown in 2008 (was it?) created by capitalism and capitalists in general on Wall Street, was bailed out by the taxpayer.

This was a socialist bailout by the taxpayer for capitalists. Seems like the capitalist will spend not only their own money but feel entitled to everyone else’s money too.

Touché mon ami….
 
 
+6 # pianosaurus rex 2012-07-03 07:43
My mistake; this was a response to brucbaker
 
 
+13 # bluepilgrim 2012-07-03 10:38
The bailouts have been called 'socialism for the rich' but that wasn't actually socialism -- it was just a nifty thing to say.

But capitalism has long privatized profits and nationalized expenses and externalities. For instance, they do research at government expense -- public expense -- but then keep all the returns and money made from that research. They make windfalls with the internet which developed by government, at taxpayer expense. Universities use public funds to research and then keep the returns or turn them over to corporations.

That isn't socialism, and the working people have to control over what happens with that. There is no central planning either -- it's chaos with every company making economic and financial decisions on it's own for only it's own profit and benefit, regardless of how it harms the public.
 
 
0 # mdhome 2012-07-06 10:17
Damn right.
 
 
+8 # silenus 2012-07-03 07:40
It is poor people who pay for the excesses of Capitalism not the other way round as you seem to believe.

Strip away all of the self-serving nonsense from capitalist thought and you have Democratic Socialism.
 
 
+15 # dickmail 2012-07-03 08:27
The USA is a union. Without the union we'd have no country. Without socialism we'd have no railroads, sewer systems, water systems, roads, cheap food, hospitals, etc. the list goes on.
 
 
+4 # goodsensecynic 2012-07-04 12:35
You forgot public libraries ... but then so have most Americans, which may explain why they have no clue about socialism ... or much of anything else.
 
 
+3 # bluepilgrim 2012-07-03 10:30
This is so far off it's not even wrong. It's like trying to explain how a forest works by talking about gnomes, elves, and magic pools, or how medicine works by talking about evil vapors and casting out demons -- just fantasy.

Why don't people look this up, do a little research, and learn what this is about. They are already on the internet, and can at least access wikipedia, if not all the further sources.

Why do people just make up crap or lie? It does no one good and hurts the country and the people, even the rich people.
 
 
+3 # paulrevere 2012-07-03 13:20
how can one person be so factually misinformed?
 
 
+6 # noitall 2012-07-03 16:14
Capitalists like to think that they're independent, self-sufficient , go-getters, nation builders, as they reap crops (natural resources) that belong to all and pay a pittance back to the People who collectively own the resource. They poison the environment for all and sock away their profits in foreign banks or take advantage of tools such as bankruptcy laws to keep from contributing to the cleanup. They avoid environmental regulations, take the savings realized as profit and leave it to the taxpayers to pay for the resultant mess. Capitalists can paint themselves pretty but underneath the rouge is an anti-America carpet bagger. Of course there are 'good' capitalists I supppose, the little guys, but since we're painting all socialists with one brush, what's good for the goose...
 
 
+7 # silenus 2012-07-03 02:07
If, as Mr. Erlanger suggests, Socialism is merely an ideology of 19th Century industrialism, it seems only fair to point out that Capitalism is merely an ideology of the preindustrial 18th Century.
 
 
+11 # Bruce Gruber 2012-07-03 03:32
Spellbinder of a name dropper, Steve. Cleanly diced, pluepilgrim.

Labels have little meaning except to focus on theoretical Hatfield/McCoy divisions and fuel disputes and memories of ages when 'enlightened' intelligentsia argued with words instead of advertising dollars. Lies about neighbors were used to justify wars of conquest, imperialism and righteousness then, as now.

Fundamentally, all INDIVIDUAL humans 'seem' to prioritize improved living conditions including 'creature' comforts, health and welfare, peaceful coexistence and opportunity for growth and expansion of knowledge and understanding of our place in the universe. As GROUPS our species cannot seem to evolve beyond the 'fight or flight' competitiveness of exploitation, domination and hoarding of knowledge, power and resources that enable domination.

Inclined to FOLLOW, we seem to seek leaders who enhance the dream of defensive fear of 'otherness' rather than rewarding leadership inclined toward inclusiveness and progress. "Socialism", as a term describing collective interests, seems to be anathema to our more primitive instincts of distrust and fear.
 
 
+7 # cordleycoit 2012-07-03 05:12
I have learned from relatives that I am not a socialist but a dirty Commie because I dared to support socialist Medicine that will kill us all. And the president is a fellow commie (not a Right wing Democrat) in league with Bankers, Doctors and ZOG who I thought was the late President or King of Albania.
 
 
+7 # DakotaKid 2012-07-03 05:37
The writer is correct to note that the right has accepted certain social reforms and program progressives fought long and hard to achieve. What choice did they have? After all, the middle class who constitute the overwhelming majority of voters in post-industrial countries now embrace the resulting policy mix as part of the social contract. That's especially true in Europe, but less so in the U.S. where "socialism" remains a much freighted word, one Republican officer-seekers and the right-wing media seek to stigmatize above all others. There's a reason why conservatives fear and loathe socialism. For Erlanger to suggest that there's no difference between Europe and the United States or that socialism is dead at a time when we are experiencing a global crisis caused by banks too big to fail and corporate greed is like a deaf person at an office party wondering why people appear to be engaged in animated conversation but nobody is saying anything.
 
 
+5 # Vardoz 2012-07-03 05:47
To me the foundation of Socialism is not that different from Democracy. People contribute to the govt and in return the people as a whole have the opportunity to enjoy life, liberty and the ability to be happy. That would involve financial contributions that would secure protections of our laws,rights, freedoms, environment, jobs, opportunities for growth, education, food, housing and healthcare. Socialism as does true Democracy strives for the upliftig of an entire population inorder to create a more perfect union that would give people better lives. That is not the goal of capitalism that has devoured the ability of the people to live well and prosper. There needs to be a balance between capitalism and the health, safety and welfare of the people so that populations can feel happy, safe, secure and free. As far as I can tell the only group in this nation that is enjoying Socialism are those at the top who have emassed vast amounts of wealth at the expense of the majority of the population of our nation.
 
 
+13 # ritaague 2012-07-03 06:03
"What's a Socialist?" In my mind and heart, a real McCoy Christian vs. todays' neo-con non-Christians (including enslave and _uck 'em all, women ain't nothing but breeding machines' Catholics), who I call phoney baloney spiritual masturbators.

Recall beloved man/God Jesus's Sermon on the Mount - feed and clothe the poor, seek justice and peace for all, etc.. Then remember the booting out of the temple of the money grabbers. Where's Jesus the Socialist when we need Him?
 
 
+19 # soularddave 2012-07-03 07:05
Jesus was lynched by the powers that wanted the corrupt system to stay in place. What has changed? If Jesus was right, then so is the Occupy movement.
 
 
+1 # Vardoz 2012-07-03 14:25
Jesus is so old news.

How about just compassion.
 
 
+1 # goodsensecynic 2012-07-04 12:41
The Book of the Acts of the Apostles makes it pretty clear where Christians stood. In verses 34 & 35 we learn that "neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands and houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, and laid them down at the apostles feet: and distributions was made unto every man according as he had need."

Fast forward about 1800 years, and we have Karl Marx telling us: "From each according to his ability; to each according to his need."

You can make many claims against Marx, but the only one that sticks is plagiarism!
 
 
0 # mdhome 2012-07-06 10:29
Galatians 6:2
2 Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.
 
 
+2 # gtl1 2012-07-03 06:36
The NYT article is so off the mark that one must consider it as a possible public relations "plant". Yes, most socialist parties have moved to the right and appear less effective, but it is ridiculous to say that they are outdated at a time of increasing corporate centralization, privatization of many government functions and corporate power in all our politics.More than ever, European and US governments should assume actions to protect less fortunate people from corporate greed.
 
 
+2 # Tigre1 2012-07-03 06:54
Idirs...very perceptive comment. As to your last sentence...that 's what makes the Koch family mission, which pere Koch got directly from Joseph Stalin directly...plea se check! your insight makes their near-total subversive success such an anomaly. They are the best revolutionists I've ever studied...proba bly EVER, even DOJ hasn't a clue...the dots are easily read and connected, but for the aware or the useful there are those golden, oil-soaked wheels.
 
 
0 # Tigre1 2012-07-03 06:56
By the way, a great article, in spite of the historical quibbling. We need to think and compare, if only for practice. How much of journalism actually does more than entertain and flatter?
 
 
+7 # Texan 4 Peace 2012-07-03 08:03
The NYT should be embarrassed at all the factual errors in this piece. Erlanger's first mistake is assuming that the names political parties gave themselves decades ago have anything to do with their current policies.
So "socialism has done its job" re the transformation of the working class into the middle class? Did Erlanger somehow miss the regression of the American middle class back into poverty? Economic inequality is higher now than it has been in nearly a century. "As the industrialized working class gets smaller and smaller, socialism seems to have less and less to say" is only true in the sense that working-class voices having been almost totally silenced in national debate.
Notions such as "social justice, a progressive tax system, trade unions, generous welfare benefits, nationalized health care, and restrictions on carbon emissions" are all anathema to the right in the U.S., though they may well have been accepted by the European right (considered "socialist" by the American right). "Only on the fringes is there talk of actually dismantling the welfare state"? Is Paul Ryan "on the fringe?
I can only assume that the whole article refers to Europe, not the U.S. The biggest tipoff is probably the assertion that "[we] don't allow people to die on the street." If Erlanger is talking about Europe, he should say so; if he somehow imagines that he has painted a picture of the U.S., he really needs to get out more.
 
 
+10 # reiverpacific 2012-07-03 08:37
A Socialist in Europe, especially France, Scotland and NORTHERN England (And now many South and Central American Nations), is closer to the real meaning of the Marxist ideal than in the US, where it represents an alien term, as often lumped in with Communism and even Totalitarianism , shoveled into the background of shame by decades of propaganda, witch hunts and ignorance by the owner-media, corporate misinformation and lousy schooling.
Bernie Sanders and Dennis Kucinich are about the the only rep's even close.
I heard in a local bar here on the Oregon Coast after Obama was elected "(He's) a Socialist, Fascist Communist"! Go figure!
(I've always put him in the Center-Rightist category, parallel to the lately deposed Nicloai Sarkozy).
And remember, those who are busiest shouting "freedom" and equating capitalism and imperialism with free enterprise, are those who will be first to restrict and remove the freedoms which still remain to us if they become obstacles to their relentless growth and profits.
I refer to myself as a "Small Business Socialist" and it never fails to get incredulous looks and comments where I live but it's also good for a chuckle at those who are incredulous, never failing to lead them to disappear up their own butt-holes, where their reasoning powers tend to reside, a bit like one or two who insist on posting and YELLING on RSN, who fail to recognize that the recipients of Corporate Socialism are hoarding and using OUR money.
 
 
+2 # bracero 2012-07-03 09:01
With all due respect, the author of this article has totally misinterpreted the difference between communism, socialism and capitalism.
It is a mumbo jumbo diatribe without any substantive basis.
It would have helped if the author had at lesst defined socilism, communism and capitalism.
This article is a total washout as far as this reader is concerned and should never have been on Reader Supported News.
 
 
+6 # tabonsell 2012-07-03 09:59
The "socialism" described in this article could best be called "industrial socialism;" it is nothing like the socialism that Marx an Engels wanted to introduce into the technology-base d economy that was emerging in Europe in the 19th century.

Marx was a great fan of the social structure of the American Indians and thought that would be an deal society for his "scientific socialism". Using that as a guide; socialism would be a society in which all the assets of society belong to all members of that society in unison and all the benefits deriving from those assets benefit all members of society equally.

With that description, we find the only place in America practicing pure socialism is the state of Alaska. The state leases rights to the natural resources under state land--oil and natural gas--to private-sector firms and all the proceeds from those leases are disbursed yearly to all Alaskans. Love it so much they wrote that socialism into their state constitution. Lowest annual payment I found was $800 a person; highest above $2,000. Socialism has been a mainstay of Alaskan life since 1976 and they aren't about to change it no matter how loud they--or Sarah Palin--scream against evils of "socialism".
 
 
+4 # dkonstruction 2012-07-03 10:14
I'm sorry, but discussing socialism or defining it without ever talking about "workers control of the means of production" is a farse at best. Socialism is not just about distribution of income and resources but MUST be about workers control over the workplace and the economy as a whole. So, it is not fundamentally just about distribution but rather about production. Furthermore, you don't have socialism if you still have wage-labor. And, to use a fraud such as Henri-Levy as a source is pathetic. Nice to see Cohn-Bendit quoted but he, like much of the European left abandoned class as the basic category for understanding how the capitalist economy and system work (which doesn't mean i don't think that race and gender are also critical). I think one gets a much better sense of what socialism is from Cohn-Bendit during his May '68 days (along with the whole French "Socialism or Barbarism" crowd as well as the Situationists and works like Guy Debord's "Society of the Spectacle" and Raoul Vaneigem's "The Revolution of Everyday Life"). And, While i have some problems with the more recent work of Antonio Negri I think he and the rest of the "Autonomist" marxists are still much closer to what i believe socialists should be about than the social democratic types some of whom continue to masquerade as socialists (perhaps the best "autonomist" text in English being Nick Dyer-Witheford' s "Cyvermarx").
 
 
+7 # Rich Austin 2012-07-03 10:42
This is the stuff that drives me nuts! The mental gymnastics people trying to make their points put themselves (and the rest of us) through accomplishes what?

Same ol, same ol’. This November the same old centrists, by and large, will be reelected.

This discussion does not capture the fancy of the 60 million people lacking quality health insurance, or the unemployed, or those living in economic squalor. It is not, therefor, of interest to a majority of our society. Why? Because it is too highfalutin! Come down to Earth. Speak to the needs of those in need. That is how we build a movement!

And in the Novembers to come, throw the centrists, and everyone to the right of them the hell out of office. By doing so we’d be electing 450 new members to Congress. (Eighty five members of the current Congress are worthy of being re-elected.)

Socialism? Hell, let’s strive for democracy first and see how that works for us.
 
 
+1 # bluepilgrim 2012-07-03 10:55
Take 5 minutes and listen to someone who has authentic knowledge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4Tq4VE8eHQ
'''''
Chomsky on Socialism
Noam Chomsky responds to a caller's request for his thoughts on socialism, during a 2003 interview by Brian Lamb, for C-SPAN's "In Depth" program. He describes how socialism was equated with the Leninist model of the Soviet Union by both the USA and its allies on the one hand, and the USSR and its allies on the other
''''
 
 
0 # John Escher 2012-07-03 11:44
To me, "what is socialism?" purports to be a question for those who know very little and think that socialism is something other than what it is, but actually is designed to bait and irritate persons who are sensible and informed. Even an article such as this one accepts too much the frame that some Romneyite or other fanatic of free enterprise would like to put around every single American existence.

More significant than trivial intellectual inquiry is the following subject or assignment. Conclusively establish whether total free enterprise has ever, much less ever will work as a form of governance. Historical research, i.e., evidence, shall be required. Make your paper short enough to be interesting but long enough to cover the subject.

All government is bad. All business is bad. Successful countries display a balance between the two. That's what I think right now. Convince me please of the rightness or wrongness of my view.
 
 
0 # Torvus 2012-07-03 12:04
After reading the above, I'd just hate to try and define the meaning of 'socialist' - or any political designation. Wasn't Nazi Germany 'National Socialist'? I guess it means different things in different cultures. Having just read 'The Wiesenthal File' by Alan Levy, maybe this quote throws a light: "The world is round. If you go right, right, right, you come out on the left."
 
 
+2 # bluepilgrim 2012-07-03 17:11
The Nazis (who were quite capitalist and fascist) wanted to get the socialists on their side and called themselves socialists as propaganda. When they took power socialists and unionists were among the first to be attacked.

The power says America is democratic -- but that is rather far from the reality.

But yes, socialism does have a broad range of meanings and variations -- althugh no socialism is Nazism.
 
 
+4 # genierae 2012-07-03 15:55
To me a Socialist is someone who cares about the common good, and has the courage to see and speak the truth about the injustices of this world. The more consciousness one possesses, the more one leans toward Socialism. A Socialist acts from conscience, telling the world what the world doesn't want to hear, risking life and limb, all for the good of the people. When I think of how awful the world would be without them, I thank God for Socialists!
 
 
+5 # madeleinekando 2012-07-04 05:07
The growing inequality between rich and poor is proof that Socialism has not done its job well. Most European countries are Social Democracies, a far cry from what Americans would tolerate as far as social equality goes. I was in Paris during the latest elections and seeing thousands of people march in the streets brandishing huge red Communist Party flags and chanting solidarity songs showed me that ‘Solidarity, Equality, Fraternity’ are not just empty words to the French. I don’t care how you call it, but the values embodied in Socialism are the only ones that will save our civilization.
 
 
+4 # bluepilgrim 2012-07-04 10:22
As Rick Wolff explains it, The left put pressure on FDR and FDR responded by raising taxes on the rich to put in the New Deal programs -- in exchange for the left to settle for that. That was a mistake, because it still left the rich capitalists in control of the workplace and the profits, and that was all that was needed to to reverse the regulations and programs for the workers over the years, and to wage a war on the left which virtually destroyed it's organization and power.

The lesson is that one can not appease vampires or capitalists; you have to bring authentic democracy into the workplace and cut off the supply of 'blood' to them so they are no longer in control of the politics and country. Otherwise it's like getting back the money a robber stole but leaving him with his blackjack and gun.

Most Americans would or do support social equality, when it comes down the praxis of socialism -- especially the youth, but they have been lied to, brainwashed, bamboozled, cowed, ignored, outspent, and dis-empowered.
 
 
+5 # Sir Real 2012-07-04 10:16
Socialism as a term has been derided by the right in the U.S. for many years, relating it to Stalinist Communism, Chinese Communism and of course, we couldn't leave out France. The left, the workers and the middle class in America is in decline due to the abandonment of leftist policymakers and ideas by democratic politicians. This shows as most left leaning politicians run like scared rabbits, even from the term liberal or progressive let alone socialist. France and much of Europe have a much more vibrant involved electorate due to their continuing support of their leftist parties, both the socialist and communist parties. In America socialists and particularly communists have been demonized by the likes of McCarthy and Reagan and a whole slew of conservatives and Republicans. The right has brought up socialism and communism as scare tactics for the past eighty years in a concerted effort to rationalize the repeal of everything from Social Security and Medicare to voting rights unemployment, whatever they may have a ideological or financial aversion to. For a good source for the socialist perspective today see the link.
www.fabians.org.uk/
 

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