Ignatius begins: "Defense Secretary Leon Panetta has a lot on his mind these days, from cutting the defense budget to managing the drawdown of U.S. forces in Afghanistan. But his biggest worry is the growing possibility that Israel will attack Iran over the next few months."
U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta briefs the media in Washington. (photo: Reuters)
Panetta: Israel Will Attack Iran
03 February 12
efense Secretary Leon Panetta has a lot on his mind these days, from cutting the defense budget to managing the drawdown of U.S. forces in Afghanistan. But his biggest worry is the growing possibility that Israel will attack Iran over the next few months.
Panetta believes there is a strong likelihood that Israel will strike Iran in April, May or June - before Iran enters what Israelis described as a "zone of immunity" to commence building a nuclear bomb. Very soon, the Israelis fear, the Iranians will have stored enough enriched uranium in deep underground facilities to make a weapon - and only the United States could then stop them militarily.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu doesn't want to leave the fate of Israel dependent on American action, which would be triggered by intelligence that Iran is building a bomb, which it hasn't done yet.
Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak may have signaled the prospect of an Israeli attack soon when he asked last month to postpone a planned U.S.-Israel military exercise that would culminate in a live-fire phase in May. Barak apologized that Israel couldn't devote the resources to the annual exercise this spring.
President Obama and Panetta are said to have cautioned the Israelis that the United States opposes an attack, believing that it would derail an increasingly successful international economic sanctions program and other non-military efforts to stop Iran from crossing the threshold. But the White House hasn't yet decided precisely how the United States would respond if the Israelis do attack.
The Obama administration is conducting intense discussions about what an Israeli attack would mean for the United States: whether Iran would target U.S. ships in the region or try to close the Strait of Hormuz; and what effect the conflict and a likely spike in oil prices would have on the fragile global economy.
The administration appears to favor staying out of the conflict unless Iran hits U.S. assets, which would trigger a strong U.S. response.
This U.S. policy - signaling that Israel is acting on its own - might open a breach like the one in 1956, when President Dwight Eisenhower condemned an Israeli-European attack on the Suez Canal. Complicating matters is the 2012 presidential campaign, which has Republicans candidates clamoring for stronger U.S. support of Israel.
Administration officials caution that Tehran shouldn't misunderstand: The United States has a 60-year commitment to Israeli security, and if Israel's population centers were hit, the United States could feel obligated to come to Israel's defense.
Israelis are said to believe that a military strike could be limited and contained. They would bomb the uranium-enrichment facility at Natanz and other targets; an attack on the buried enrichment facility at Qom would be harder from the air. Iranians would retaliate, but Israelis doubt that the action would be an overwhelming barrage, with rockets from Hezbollah forces in Lebanon. One Israeli estimate is that the Jewish state might have to absorb 500 casualties.
Israelis point to Syria's lack of response to an Israeli attack on a nuclear reactor there in 2007. Iranians might show similar restraint, because of fear the regime would be endangered by all-out war. Some Israelis have also likened a strike on Iran to the 1976 hostage-rescue raid on Entebbe, Uganda, which was followed by a change of regime in that country.
Israeli leaders are said to accept, and even welcome, the prospect of going it alone and demonstrating their resolve at a time when their security is undermined by the Arab Spring.
"You stay to the side, and let us do it," one Israeli official is said to have advised the United States. A "short-war" scenario assumes five days or so of limited Israeli strikes, followed by a U.N.-brokered cease-fire. The Israelis are said to recognize that damage to the nuclear program might be modest, requiring another strike in a few years.
U.S. officials see two possible ways to dissuade the Israelis from such an attack: Tehran could finally open serious negotiations for a formula to verifiably guarantee that its nuclear program will remain a civilian one; or the United States could step up its covert actions to degrade the program so much that Israelis would decide that military action wasn't necessary.
U.S. officials don't think that Netanyahu has made a final decision to attack, and they note that top Israeli intelligence officials remain skeptical of the project. But senior Americans doubt that the Israelis are bluffing. They're worrying about the guns of spring - and the unintended consequences.
|
THE NEW STREAMLINED RSN LOGIN PROCESS: Register once, then login and you are ready to comment. All you need is a Username and a Password of your choosing and you are free to comment whenever you like! Welcome to the Reader Supported News community. |
 20 May 2013
|
 21 May 2013
|
 21 May 2013
|
 20 May 2013
|
 22 May 2013
|
 22 May 2013
|
 20 May 2013
|
 20 May 2013
|
 21 May 2013
|
Comments
We are concerned about a recent drift towards vitriol in the RSN Reader comments section. There is a fine line between moderation and censorship. No one likes a harsh or confrontational forum atmosphere. At the same time everyone wants to be able to express themselves freely. We'll start by encouraging good judgment. If that doesn't work we'll have to ramp up the moderation.
General guidelines: Avoid personal attacks on other forum members; Avoid remarks that are ethnically derogatory; Do not advocate violence, or any illegal activity.
Remember that making the world better begins with responsible action.
- The RSN Team
Time to Occupy Peace and Liberty and Justice for All.
"This will be the next war...much to the delight of the Fundamentalist Christians who want this armageddon and the rapture."
Sarafornia
What's best, Robert Eagle, is our coming into the 21st Century and recognizing that we have a problem on our hands. To solve it, I recommend:
1. Tell all concerned that there WILL NOT BE ANOTHER WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST - period. We will not be the first to shoot, but we will certainly be the second!
2. Approach Teheran with this message:
"We regret the mistakes that have were made in the past, but that was then. This is now. The time has come for the USA and Iran to sit down as equal partners and, in good faith, discuss terms and conditions that will lead to long term peace & stability in the Middle East.
3. Simultaneously, tell Netanyahu that if Israel bombs Iran, we will bomb Tel Aviv. No questions asked.
Wil it work? Maybe ,maybe not. If it does, Hu-Rah!! If it doesn't, we can always go to war and bankrupt ourselves in another F***ing quagmire.
Which would YOU choose?
What if it were your son/daughter, brother/sister, husband/wife or your best friend who will be coming home in a box - or worse, with half of his/her brain and all four limbs gone?
It's a no brainer!
2. Obama has already approached Tehran with your exact same message. It got thrown back into his face and ridiculed.
3. Don't be ridiculous....
By my count:
United States
Russia
Ukraine
Israel
Pakistan
India
United Kingdom
France
ALL have nuclear weapons. This may be one of the reasons both Pakistan and India still exist without an all out war. They HATE each other and have those weapons as a regional arms race to keep each other in check. I don't like it, but it's a fact.
Even if Iran WERE to build a bomb, it's only logical purpose would be self-defense. OFFENSIVE nuclear war is suicide.
So ABSOLUTELY! IT'S THE OIL STUPID! And, it always has been.
..and North Korea!
In fact, it wasn't even the central point. The central point was that it's getting to the point where many countries have them. Iran having one won't change anything.
It's ironic that, in order to stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons it "might some day use", many in Israel feel the need to use nuclear weapons they have right now!
Since the NPT entered into force in 1970, three states that were not parties to the Treaty have conducted nuclear tests, namely India, Pakistan, and North Korea
yes there is absolutely NO evidence Iran is building any bomb...except what has been fabricated like Iraq...
Thanks for that bit of common-sense follow up. Two stupid wrongs don't make a right.
"As bad as" though applies to LIKUD as much as Mullah-Run Terahn who from all I'm allowed to know, has no desire to go to war. Still can't figure out why they want nuclear power with all that concentrated solar energy at their disposal though. Hwat an example to the world if they turned away from nuclear aspirations all together and concentrated on Solar in partnership with (say) Germany.
-But then what would the US do with all that surplus cannon-fodder they call troops around the world -and how frustrating for the Pentagon-C.I.A. criminals.
Remember, the USA has demonstrated more than anybody since Ghengis Kahn bad examples of military intervention, adventurism and destruction of other nations since it was capable of it, so we are in no position to blacken anybody's kettle!
"bomb Tel Aviv" - with the very strong Jewish Lobby? Israel is our military arm in the mid-East. We wouldn't want to jeopardize our military hold there.
If they must continue to kill like those they condemn, this must be their undoing.
I'm not immune to this either. Few men are. That's why it's so affective.
The world isn't black and white, but painting it that way is very useful to people who want to stifle debate.
It's the "kinder gentler" way of saying "stfu".
I also like what you said about black and white thinking stifling debate.
I love how you christian fundamentalist republicans twist your facts and recite vague truths - something you must have learned from your Israeli financiers.
Also, even though the Israelis will start the war without the US, they know that the US has its back. This war mongering Conservative government in Israel, as all Conservative governments, choose war as the path to peace, always. And in this case they are taking advantage of the good will of the United States.
Once a war starts, you never know where, when, and how it will end. The Israeli government, as portrayed in this article, is making the same mistake the neo-Cons in the US made about Iraq. That it will be short with minimal casualties.
Once again, neo-Cons slept through a history lesson; only this time the neo-Cons are from Israel.
Perhaps you slept through History 101.
Up against the 20 million Soviet, six million Jewish and uncounted millions of Chinese deaths the few thousand allied death in Iraq while tragic are in fact but a few. The lesson of history is that a few thousand deaths spent blocking Hitler's invasion of the Rhineland might well have saved tens of millions by stopping Hitler while it was easy to do so. Letting Iran get nukes is much like letting Germany rearm in the 30's.
But I digress.
Currently the USA has conservatively as big a military as the top 10 countries combined. At the start of WW2 we had small army, a navy that was effectively destroyed, and an air force that more or less non existent.
So, for Iran to actually become a threat on the scale of Hitler they would need to enlist nearly their entire population. Also, there is the MAD detterent. What makes you think that Iran would risk sacrificing its very existence in order to destroy Israel. And in order to do that they would have to do it quick.
Neo-Cons, Now hear this!
"War is not Answer". (Marvin Gaye)
"All We Are Saying is Give Peace a Chance" (John Lennon / Yoko Ono)
I aggree. WAR is NOT the answer
Wait, sorry. My programming went awry. Death is life. War is Peace. Bombs are Love...
Israel, all those of Jewish Descent must be called first. Their War, they must go.
It is fine for them to sit and watch while we are at war...I think not.. Their War, their children drafted first.
Head Count in Israel to see that all of those of age to serve in Israel are called out first. Their War, again their show of heads.
No Politician, No Religious deferrment. Obama's Daughters are of age, then they must be ready for draft, same with Romney, Bush, Cheney .... everyone will sacrifice their Children or we do not go at all.
So perhaps you all start suggesting that to the Media, to your Politicians. Get a Referendum ready now for Primaries or Fall Vote. But stop ranting...do something
Am I right, Kittatiny?
forget it, Hawk! i have ONE son ... ONE! ... and he will go OVER MY DEAD BODY!
Where's the U.N. now? Awaiting instructions from the U.S.?
On top of all of this is the fact that Iran almost certainly is not developing weapons and that it is at this moment welcoming inspectors.
As an American Jew, I can no longer support Israel's insane, belligerent policies toward its neighbors. Enough is enough. And if the United States was not in league with Israel in this action, it ought to tell Israel that an attack upon Iran would result in a cut-off of U.S. military aid to Israel. That would certainly get someone's attention.
But the U.S. won't do that. It would rather play 'let's pretend.'
When are we going to stop the madness?
If you want to join in the big guys' game, get all of your s*** in one sock.
Appreciate it.
It's just that a lot of us use sarcasm on this site and it's often misunderstood. It's so bad that I often write: "NOTE: SARCASM", which itself, is a bit sarcastic. So, sometimes it's just hard to tell.
I appreciate your comment. That guy is one scarey looking dude!
So you both are right and wrong. RMDC was right that dorianb's words were wrong, but dorianb's understanding of Ahmadinejad's words was essentially right, and RMDC was wrong. In any case, if Ahmadinejad wanted to coexist with Israel, he could start by calling it Israel, while differentiating between the Israeli People and the Zionist government. The words would stick in his mouth.
Ahmadinejad does not like Jews. The way he treats Jews who have not left Iran, for various reasons, shows that he does not. But he does not like lots of people. He is a terrible person, very bad for Iran and the Iranian People, who has imprisoned them in a jail of rotten orthodoxy. There is no way out but to leave. Freedom is illusory. He can't co-exist with the Iranian People; how can he co-exist with Israel?
No Child left out. What is good enough for Middle Class, Poor will now be good enough for the Rich. If they flee, the Country that allows them refuge will have to pay USA or send 5 of their own to battle for each.
Want to Play Risk, than they better be prepared for New Rules. No one is left out. Everyone in the Country who initiates War will Pay for Supplies, Weapons, Ammunition, Food and Health Care as well as the salary, Insurance for Families. Israel you want to start a War, lets see what you got. By the Way, USA, Canada, UN get summary from Planning on what this War will Cost. One Half must be put into Account up front before first strike. If this is not done, No One shows up to defend. This puts Attacker on the fence, Attackee will not be allowed to start any problems against anyone but One attacking or they will be bombed, any survivors or those who side with, will be held accountable for Human Life, Damages to Land and property/liveli hood of others.
Anyone wants to play, let's get documents drawn up. All Accounts in Banks held escrow until such time as those threatening put up the sum, sign the agreements. Want to be civilized, want to be Humane
These comments do not support being civilized or humaneness.
Almost every Jew feels a loyalty to Israel. Your rants about those that have dual citizenship seem like thinly disguised anti Semitism.
His rants always conveniently leave that little matter of OIL out of the equation. "We're" USING Israel and USING the accusation of anti-semitism to let it get away with doing "our" dirty work.
Of course it's not "we" or "our". It's the global oil cartel which has our nation doing its bidding as well.
The ONLY things that scare them more than having to ship oil without going through Iran and Syria are SOLAR POWER and WIND POWER.
Sshhh! Don't talk about those dirty words too loudly if you know what's good for you.
http://rt.com/usa/news/us-troops-israel-iran-257/
Either Israel is the 51st state or Washington is Israeli Occupied Territory…Take your pick! The only legitimate position to be taken by the “so-called” peace movement, in this country, is to admit that we are all sick of this charade by the US government.
Place your bets commodities/cur rency banksters/specu lators. Panetta just gave you a hattip, with enough spread to re-elect$ the 12-dimentional chess master, our President, and fund that third $100M Island Yacht you'll need after the fallout gets to all of our water supplies.
On a far heavier note, a false-flag is a comin. Bank on it. Gotta "pull" us in, give us an excuse, to fight. USS Enterprise or that new Navy Seal Team vessel hanging around the Gulf, seem the most likely (+ it's another Rinse/Repeat scenario, with the USS Liberty and USS Cole incidents as history.)
Las Vegas have their "Mostest Evil deck-of-cards" printed yet? Place your bets ladies and gentlemen. We're goin ta War again, and again, and again, and agai....
Yet another, as if we need more, reason to never allow a Republican near the White House. Never.
Todd, you and I do agree and my comment does not disrespect Son of/or Eagle, but rather asks, "how is that war going and is it worth your life?"...I think we all know the answer to that.
I agree with you his second reply was a nice response. Why would we want harm to come to anyone's children, or to anyone period, even if their values and viewpoints differ from ours?
Your kids choice, wasn't drafted. But I believe it is time for draft to be reinstated and I am anti war. But I am tired of the elite sitting home and the children of real fold goin to war for them.
In Nam, rich kids daddies and mommies said oh our kids are going to be lawyers and doctors. Well, so was my friends going to College, Universities when they went, few came back One was already two years in premed. Other friends signed up to avoid some bad places.
Bad People exist everywhere, we are all good and bad. Some of us have Conscience. I pray sir, you never have to go pick up a body bag nor anyone else anywhere.
You know the ones who died were lucky. Many of my friends came back with toe tags. They married and killed themselves drinking or eating bullet. Most could not live back here accepting what they did. Most who ate bullets, were Marines. I have never forgotten them, I never forgot the looks on their wives faces. But my friends were alone, poor because suicide ...no insurance. They never thought of anyone else while they were thinking of everything they did.
Thank you son for being brave enough to serve. When he comes home, make sure he gets Counseling, Health Review by civilian doctors. Too many Service doctors ignore too many things
Are you sure that without the aid of your son in securing the profit margins of the global petroleum cartel, all Americans would lose our Freedom of Speech?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I beleive we already The First Amendment BEFORE the invention of the internal combustion engine.
In fact, our Freedom of Speech would be a hell of a lot more secure if our country was no longer addicted to oil.
Again I need to hear your excuse how? By invading Iraq, Afghanistan, our Intervention in Panamanian Revolution (1903)- The Banana Wars (1909-1933)-U.S . Occupation of Vera Cruz (1914)-Pershing 's Raid into Mexico (1916-1917)-All ied Intervention in Russian Civil War (1919-1921)-Kor ean War (1950-1953)-Int ervention in Lebanon (1958)- Second Indochina War (1956-1975)- Dominican Intervention (1965-1966?)- Lebanese Intervention (1982-1984)- Grenada Invasion (1983)- First Persian Gulf War (1980-1988)-Pan ama Invasion (1989)- Second Persian Gulf War - Somalia Intervention (1992-1993)- Occupation of Haiti (1994-Present)- Bosnian War (1995)-Kosovo War (1999)- Libyan War (2011)- (there's More) We were the invader and aggressor in all these wars... So tell me robert how is the US Military protecting us by invading countries all over the world? I want to hear your response!
I asked you before, I am still awaiting your answer! Come on Robt Give us a reply or drop the crap about your kids defending our right to make comments here...
1) Tehran could finally open serious negotiations for a formula to verifiably guarantee that its nuclear program will remain a civilian one.
2) The United States could step up its covert actions to degrade the program so much that Israelis would decide that military action wasn't necessary."
Are you telling me that the U.S. has no leverage to use against Israel? This is, of course, utter b.s. We have leverage to use, but will deliberately choose to avoid using it. We're happy to let Israel act as our proxy; it gets us off the hook. And Israel will be quite happy to take sole responsibility for this strike, which, btw, will be carried out with our ordinance.
My guess, given the increased coverage lately on the need to take action against Iran, is that it's pretty much a done deal. Those who were paying attention to the build-up to the war in Iraq are essentially seeing the same thing repeated today. The only real difference, is that we'll let someone else do there dirty work.
be livid....I still think there is an element of the carrot and stick bluff ...mutt and jeff technique here
I am waiting for the Draft to be reinstated all for one etc
Obama wants to make improvement here at home. He can NOT do that with perpetual war.
You saw some of my suggestions earlier, Bill. We need to make Congress understand
that if they want to support Israel, instead of us, They are in the wrong country. They are UN AMERICAN, They have to work for OUR country. If they will NOT do that. We will vote THEM out in November. We should ALL aggree on that.
I agree with you that Obama cannot afford to put us into another war and make improvements at home.
Getting Congress to oppose the Israeli lobby. Far easier said than done. On the other hand, it is easy to imagine an American public far more critical of Israel and US Middle East policy sans AIPAC.
An excellent article on this subject of the Israeli Lobby:
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby
But that doesn't preclude the necessity (and urgency) for forging a new policy towards Israel.
An article worth reading:
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/john-mearsheimer/the-israel-lobby
This is exactly what we need. American Jews, (no offense) particularly the many very rich Jews, who are sending money to Israel, need to take a stand: Are they AMERICANS? or are they ISRAELIS? I understand they sympathise with Israel.
BUT you can NOT SERVE TWO MASTERS. You MUST choose. To whom do you owe allegiance?? If Israel has your heart and MONEY. You need to be where your heart is. You can NOT be A GOOD AMERICAN CITIZEN.
You now need to tell Israel: Enough war. If you insist on attack and war there will be no more money and support coming from us. America and Europe, really... the world.... is in a precarious position. We are SLOWLY coming out of the horrible recession.
Israel attacking Iran could send the oil prices soaring and kill any progress apart from the obvious horrors of untold people being killed, and damage to infrastructure, for the Iranian will certainly strike back. And where is the end????
Now if the republicans, and particularly the presidential candidates are going to beat the war drums, and try to force the President to go with Israel, there can be NO DOUBT that they want CONTINUAL war.
America and our people be damned...... We will be.
This is another opportunity for Obama to be a mensch and exercise real leadership. I fear that he will avoid doing so.
I'm neutral on this because I don't think we can decide for the Israeli's how they best should deal with the existential threat that Iran constitutes. Nor will they let us. There will be repercussions globally either way. But no one in the u.s. will influence Israel's strategies below the Federal Level of U.S. Govt and Military.
(What are we at-3x on this thread alone, so far? “The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.” Goebbels, Reich Minister of Propaganda in Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945.)
Teeny tiny Israel has 200+ nuclear weapons. Regionally, Pakistan and India have less than Israel, but have them. Iran, and the rest of the ME, including comparable teeny tiny land mass ME countries of Lebanon, UAE, Bahrain, Djibouti (E Africa,) have none.
So RE, what's your bettin spread? "Casualties spread?" After all, this is casino "pre-emptive strike" capitalism 101.
Well, the 'bombing' of Israel is in the form of ordnance being fired by segments of the Palestinian population, not by Iran or other states. Anyone viewing this with some objectivity would have to agree that the force Israel uses against the Palestinians far exceeds that used against it. Israel is far, far more powerful than Iran and always will be. Iran will never hit Israel with nukes, even if it had them, and it doesn't. There is NO justification for so-called pre-emptive strikes unless one is in immediate danger, and Israel isn't. Pre-emptive strikes are in fact acts of war and against international law.
I have always supported Israel's existence and safety, but I do NOT support its treatment of the Palestinians or its threats to attack its neighbors. Iran is not the aggressor here.
Germany was also struggling with solvency back in 39. They solved the problem for a while by stealing Jewish property and pillaging much off Europe.
It's still disengenuous to compare Iran to nazi Germany. Every time a new country needs to be colonized and occuppied it's ruled by nazis. It's getting old.
Of course Saddam, Qaddafi and Assad have demonstrated how one should treat the local population. Israel is benign by comparison.
No one should tolerate Israel's war mongering. It has attacked it neighbors over and over again. Israel is the threat in the whole middle east. I'm not against Israel but it should be required to join the community of peaceful nations. If it won't, then kick it out of the world community.
Netanyahoo is insane and a real danger to Israel and the world. Obama has a responsibility to contain him. The US created the Israeli war machine and now it must defang it -- by any means necessary.
Most of the world supports Iran. It is only the US, France, UK, and US who will back Israel in this war.
On the other hand, if we renounce our role as playground bully, and step back and actually try to make peace, we may actually accomplish that goal, but it will mean a huge cut on military industrial profits. Rocky Anderson has always been against the wars in the middle east, and will continue to work for peace there, but as long as our government is controlled by corporate money, there is no reason for the Dems or Repubs to stop. We need a better choice for Justice. http://www.voterocky.org/?recruiter_id=57374
It was disgusting. You have NEVER heard Obama say that he is a war president. He INHERITED two wars. He didn't START them.
Obama wants to make big improvements in THIS country. He will NOT be able to do that with constant war in the middle east. I agree, he has made mistakes. But you should realize how much preasure there is on him from the right wing. Any good bill gets loaded up with crap that he doesn't want. A miserable situation.
In regard to Libya, Obama was getting lots of flack about leading "from behind" He did NOT want to be the aggressor, so he waited to be asked, and stayed back a bit, in a supporting role, wirh France and England in the lead.
Obama is neither as bad as you think, nor as perfect as some others think. But he tries. That is a whole lot more than any of the republicand do.
As for the 'big improvements' he wants to make in the U.S., are you referring to arrests without charges, detention without trial, mass surveillance, and the abrogation of the Bill of Rights? I supported him actively in 2008 but will not vote for him in 2012. Obama is worse than you think, I'm afraid. Much worse. He's filled his administration with bankers and corporate thieves. I can't keep making excuses for what is right in front of our eyes.
The US is an empire. It followed from the British empire. All empires are murderous and fight wars non-stop. There mission is to kill and brutalize every nation they can into submission. The fact that Iran will not submit and lick the ass of the US and Israel is the reason it must be destroyed.
The Israelis have joined up with the US empire and made a shrewed strategic move to take over elected officials in the US by means of campaign bribes. So they actually now run the empire, at least as far as the middle east operations go.
All empires are evil and eventually collapse from their own excesses. The US and Israel will collapse. They will destroy themselves. But before they collapse, they will probably kill another 100 million people in the world. The long term legacy of the US will be right there beside Hitler's Germany, Tojo's Japan, the British and Beligan genocidiers, and the rest of the world's horrors.
It's ok when Israel does it, right?
The right likes to point out the fact that the word "nazi" is a German accronym for "National Socialist Party". I guess you all didn't know that. Nevermind the fact that the literal translation of those words is taken completely out of context, and that YES true socialism is the OPPOSITE of fascism, despite the fact that the right is really scared of public libraries.
In fact, if you asked some right-wingers what hitler did that was soo evil, I suspect, given their own political tendencies, the only major complaint they’d have against him would be the autobahn. Afterall, that would be a true example of “socialism” (also known as nationally funded infrastructure) . Otherwise, they have to be pretty careful in their criticizms of the nazis, lest they tear holes in their own justifications for torture and “secret rendition”
So, yes, he DID say that. He's fond of accusing left-wingers who don't agree with the Israeli military agenda of "nazi" sympathies. He put it cleverly, just as glenn beck would have coached him.
I am not against SS, Medicare or Medicade , just making a point...
Are you saying that Social Security, et al. are part of a fascist system? Also, don't you think there's an authoritarian element of fascism? I'm not refering to the fact that some have to pay taxes, etc. I'm refering to an unelected authority tell you how to live your life. If so, I think capitalism is more in character with the spirit of fascism.
Leaving terms like "fascism" and "socialism" aside I think is important at this point, unless we want this to become some generic conversation about what-ifs.
Point-blank:
Which faction of American politics more resembles the philosophy of ADOLF HITLER:
A. Conservatives (with justifications for pre-emptive war, extraordinary rendition, torture, white supremacy, religious intollerance, threats to the rights outlined in the U.S. Constitution, non-observance of international or domestic law; to name a few things off the top of my head)
OR
B) Liberals (with their love of socialized medicine, federal funding for the arts and sciences, public libraries, publicly funded infrastructure projects, public schools, ets.)
???
CONT.
Maybe the dictionary definition of "fascism" is a clever way to avoid the point of what direction do we want our country to go. Is it possible to be a fascist for peace, general welfare, and the U.S. Constitution? If so, sign me up!
Is it possible to be anti-fascist while completely resembling adolf hitler in philosophy? If so, the repug party are his greatest admirers.
Fascism promotes political violence and war as actions that create national regeneration, spirit and vitality...(We have been continually at war to unite the people)
Fascists commonly utilize paramilitary organizations for violence against opponents or to overthrow a political system. (Think OWS and the terror attacks on free speach by the paramilitary police) Fascism opposes multiple ideologies: conservatism, liberalism, and two major forms of socialism—commu nism and social democracy...(we were at one time a social democracy, but no longer, and there is really only one party with two branches)
This country has expoused each of the foregoing points...
Please tell me if this does not describe Amerika today!
By the way, I liked your definition. It was very detailed and reality based.
Whether a country has 'made many contributions to the world' is rather beside the point. ALL countries have a right to exist, Israel included. But Iran also has that right. Supporting Israel's existence is not the same thing as supporting its 'right' to attack others when its own existence is not threatened. Iran does not threaten Israel's existence. Rhetoric is not military capacity. Israel has more than 200 nuclear weapons with delivery systems. Iran has none. A 'pre-emptive' attack under these conditions is murder. It;s murder no matter who does it.
Well said. Israel has made many mistakes. It has often acted in a manner toward the Palestinian population that is very similar to our own treatment of the Native Americans. And still, regardless of what many Left Wing persons say, there is an historical claim to the land.
Both populations need to share, and the rest of the world needs to facilitate that sharing. Since Israel's creation, there has been a strong Arab pushback by denying the Palestinians sanctuary. This tactic was inculcated by the Soviets since they knew the West had Israel's side. Now that the Cold War is over, this is another proxy battle that stays with us. A way to peace can be found, but both sides have to believe and others should only assist as requested. Easy to say, but possibly the only way to avoid war.
"authentic liberal".
Todd, I also support Israel's right to exist, as I've said before. The only problem with your 'let Israel and Iran work this out' comment is that it's not taking place in a vacuum. Israel's got 200 nukes, which we abetted. Israel's got WMDs, including 'bunker buster' bombs. The U.S. has played a major role in arming Israel. To now 'let them work it out' is rather a little late. It's like letting a pro linebacker work it out with a 12-year-old running back. It's not quite an equal situation, thanks in large degree to what the U.S. has done.
And, by the way, has the U.S. ever apologized for overthrowing Iran's democratically- elected government in 1953? Didn't think so. But Iran hasn't forgotten.
As usual - might is right - accept it isn't - and the people of the world are getting smart enough to know it in economics as well as politics.
The greatest part of the National Debt is from the Bush II War in Iraq. Even those of us that knew how that the debt had been accrued and the lunacy of a debt ceiling debacle that followed are tired of their GOP/TP ravings. They will be hard put to back pedal on all their rhetoric about National Debt and then try to push us into another MIddle East conflict. Israel may have to go it alone on this one.
What is different now is that there has been the OWS. That has created a network for protest that is actually effective. It is a new world and even thought the GOP/TP acts as though the 99% does not exist, we actually are here and organized and tired of being treated like we are not even in the room.
The real "yahoo" of the world is Netanyahoo of Israel. He is truly an evil and machiavellian politician. He knows that if he attacks Iran the US will have to enter the war to defend Israel. This will defeat Obama because Obama will waffle and look like Netanyahoo's lackey when the does enter the war. This will put Netanyahoo's soul mate Gingrich it the white house. Israel has given itself the right to assassinate a US president if he does not do what Israel wants. Romney will be killed by Israeli agents (it will look like and accident). Gingrich will defeat Obama because all of Obama's supporters will stay home. Then Netanyahoo will have what he wants -- total control of the US through his bitch Newt Gingrich. The two of them will open wars of conquest throughout Africa -- remember Gingrich's PHD dissertation praised the Belgian operations in the Congo. Israel is already a major player in the blood minerals being mined in Africa.
The future does not look good for the US. Americans are simply to simple minded to understand why a war against Iran may destroy more of their future than Iran's.
in this case, they will not wait for iran to use a weapon , not by using it themselves, but by giving it to a terrorist to use against israel's air force for example. they will deny doing that of course. this is what israel is worried about. if a weapon is created by a country headed by a violent dictator who has ordered the death of all protestors in his country, they have to take out their bomb building site, as a defensive move, like the one george bush used but lied about, iraq. israel took out a few sites already, and you didn't see the world chastise it for doing so. they will be happy if israel does this dirty work. the problem is the oil however, and the amount that goes to russia and china, etc. the world economic situation makes this all very very sticky indeed. the world is unstable and this is making it worse. hillary has a hell of a job to do, and maybe that is the reason for all of this in the end. she gets peace, and gets the vice presidency, and then the presidency. nice move if that is the reason for this stuff, and it damn well be the reason....
What we need is to be, is reasonable, think rationally, and calm people down.
Attacking Iran is unbelievably stupid.
The country is much bigger than Iraq. Look at a map, with a population 3 times that of Iraq.
We had a very hard time there, didn't we??
The young Iranians do NOT hate America, but they sure will if we are involved in attacking them. That will accomplish what we do NOT want UNITE the WHOLE country against us. A totally insane caper.
He is speculating that Israel wil give nukes to terrorists, to get something started. That is an imagination out of control
In the end he is wondering if Hillary wants all this. "She has a hell of a job to do, maybe she gets peace, then the vice presidency and the presidency," etc etc, etc.
Please read it again. It is certainly wild speculations. And NOT HELPFUL.
I wanted him to realize the insanity of attacking Iran, and consider its size as a country and 75 millions versus the Iraqi 25 million. We had a hell of a time there. Lost thousands of our people and many, many thousands of Iraqis. That is rarely mentioned.
Millions displaced outside Iraq, as well as millions inside the country. Horrific. Think about how many of these people, kids and young people who now hate us, for ages to come.
Too many people do NOT think about the destruction in our wake, and the many people maimed for life. We ache for OUR casualties, living and dead. It is high time we consider our victims.
And they ARE OUR victims. WE INVADED Iraq, and to make matters worse the infrastructure is badly damaged. Iraqis do not have the good hospitals to help their seriously injured people.
I mention all this, for people rarely consider ALL the horror that war brings and seldom, what we leave behind. OUR people need grow up and understand It.
As I have mentioned before, I am NOT anti semitic Or hating Jews far from it,
but Netanyaho and his government is endangering the world. And American Jews and the congress HAVE to take a stand, and tell Israel to back off.
We should stand with Israel, but NOT start a war. If they, or we open PANDORA's box. untold horrors will follow.
I really do not want to critiqui anybody, only point out someting that was overlooked.
Besides that, Arabians are not Persians.
Israel needs to back off and chill out. Iran is not going to attack them.
If Israel goes to war with Iran, Iran will be either unable to or afraid to strike back at Israel. So it will be the U.S. that suffers the retaliation. Our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq will be sitting ducks for Iran's revenge.
It would be another quagmire of a war that we will get involved in with no way out.
But then, the military contractors stocks would soar, so they would be glad to get into a war. Haliburton and friends would make millions more in profits.
Then there are the economic repurcussions: Gas prices will go sky high. But then that will be good for the oil companies, so they will be happy too.
All of this because of Israel. Israel does not need to start this. Are they crazy?
So Israel says Iran has threatened them. We do not even know if that is true, but if it is, so what? Israel can blow Iran up 100 times over. We all live under nuclear threat now. All of us. Not just Israel.
Another fact. Look it up. Israel has been saying that Iran was developing a bomb and was going to attack them since 1994. It is all crazy. You would think Israel wants to get into a war.
They better start PROTECTING us. Ore they are OUT in NOVEMBER. Let us all make sure of that...PLEASE
We just spent 10 years in Iraq and 5 million were displaced and 1 million dead. How long will this war last? How many millions will die and be left homeless. How many U.S. soldiers will die? How many victims of depleted uranium and white phosphorous?
Obama and Panetta should just tell Israel no more billions in funding period!
And what about AIPAC? how much money is Obama receiving for his campaign? He needs to refuse all money from AIPAC.
Here is a great news clip video from TRNN
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=767&Itemid=74&jumival=7868
Excuse a bit of history, but Iran has never attacked anyone. Israel has and so has the US, including the CIA against Iran in the 1950s and 1980s. Threats? Israel almost brags about doing in the Syrian nuclear facility, and wants everyone to know about its own nuclear capabilities.
"The Obama administration is conducting intense discussions about what an Israeli attack would mean for the United States" Why not discuss the fact that an attack by Israel on Iran would be WRONG!, and that it would legitimize anyone coming to Iran's defense including retaliating against Israel?
"The administration appears to favor staying out of the conflict unless Iran hits U.S. assets, which would trigger a strong U.S. response" As a previous commenter pointed put, why the hell would US assets be in a country that is committing aggression, and expect them to be immune to retaliation? And why would the US have the right to "respond" if such assets were hit?
It is safe to say this very public leak was not for the benefit of Israeli ears. It was a very public message to Iran. The President of Iran has downgraded Israel from the Zionist Entity, to the Zionist Regime. It was a reminder that the United States was not the only nuclear armed country in the neighborhood, and Israel had a lot to lose with the entry into Iran's arsenal of their new missile that can easily hit everywhere in Israel. Before that, having a nuclear weapon, making threats against the "Zionist Entity" that is not even worthy of being named, without a means of delivery, is a threat, but a low level threat. Add an easy delivery system, and the threat goes to level RED.
Iran has been working on a new missile for years. We laughed at their photo-shopped missile firing pictures several years ago. But it isn't funny anymore. They have demonstrated that they have it, and will soon have it consistently. That is what makes a nuclear weapon dangerous now.
This was a message to Iran that the U.S. won't always tell Israel NO!
Iranians are NOT stupid, nor are they suicidal. They know, that if they use nuclear weapons against Israel, they will not be able to count far before they are hit .....with a vengeance.
Iran has not attacked another country for hundreds and hundreds of years.
They were ATTACKED by IRAQ and St. Reagan supplied Iraq with the nerve gasses that killed thousands of Iranians, and later the Iraqi Kurds. They have plenty of reasons to despise us. Please read some of the first posts.
Frankly my dear. "I don't give a damn"
My comments are meant to bring attention to issues, that some may not have thought about. Also, there is too much hysteria, cool heads and careful thinking is sorely needed now.
Countries too often behave like stupid little kids. Flex their muscles and call each other all sorts of idiotic names.
W was setting things in motion, when he in the State of The Union Address called Iran, Iraq, and North Korea: "The Axis of Evil". A collossal blunder.
When we started the attacks in Afghanistan, Iran approached our government, and wanted to help. They offered to train Afghan troups and police. Rumsfeld didn't even bother to answer.
And THEN came the stupid Axis remark. You would have to be incredibly dense, not to get it: North Korea has nukes....NO ATTACK... Iraq...NO NUKES! Iraq was attacked. So of course, Iran worked hard to get nukes. They didn't want to be sitting ducks. They have been burnt before, and with good reason, they do not trust us.
I wonder if you agree with what else I said?
Are not we all pretty good at miscommunicating?
Compassion, patience and vigilance are requirements for continuance of the human race. If we forget any of these
three, there is no genuine reason to expect that continuity.
Iran does not YET have capability for
a nuclear strike. Yes, it is a terrible
prospect that they may have and choose
to use such in future. Now is not that
time.
Did the potential for Saddam to have and
use WMD justify W's invasion of Iraq?
There *seemed* to be good reasons for
pre-emptive strike, but I argued against
such at that time.
Did the Domino theory justify the U.S.
escalation in Vietnam?
There are other historical situations I
might cite, but not my point.
Does the U.S. have a Dept. of Defense or a Department of War?
Do we have a State Department?
Can we sit and breathe a moment while both of these institutions do their jobs
as best they can?
That is what taxpayers pay them to do.
but NOT what their campaign donors pay them to do ...
The area was ALWAYS to be split up between the U.S., Turkey, Israel and India. That was DICK cheney's (and wolfiwitz's and pearl's and the bush's) agenda all along.
Our democratically elected "DEMOCRATIC PARTY" President is following their orders dutifully like a good boy.
I don't think we need to worry about U.S. involvement in this one (not OFFICIAL involvement anyway). We've done our part to cut, divide and pillage the area as planned. Now it's Israel's turn to off the only obstacle in the way of oil export access to the Indian Ocean route.
This is all according to plan.
Pay attention, because Syria will be next...
Don't believe me? Just look it up. It's been publicly acknowledged for years and was officially put in writing in the early '90s.
Many of us believed this was one of the things in the works during the Iran-Contra scandal. Remember that one? We were called "paranoid conspiracy theorists back then".
Actually, I'll quote it because it fits here as well:
"Thank you for being about the only person I've ever heard to actually say those things. It shouldn't be an act of personal bravery to question the militarization of our increasingly police state. It should be considered a matter of American Freedom.
Thank you for speaking the truth right in the face of the manipulations and flag waving propaganda."
Maybe we should share a few imaginary beers.
Typos can be funny
The USA and England (yeah the UN) decided to put the Jews in Israel after WWII - but not bc it was once theirs --- obviously it was to "use them" --- but if you are old enough, you know this is true.
When they setup their "new country" - they had communes, etc., but every child was trained militarily and now 60+ years later we have a military-like society whose brains have been trained to fight rather than use any other means (etc)
BUT - the hitch is our Military Establishment is a bunch of big corporation lobbyists funding our government to have wars so these corporations can make money. (Making airplanes, supplying private army people, rebuilding what they bombed and on it goes. You know these companies get appointed and the government does not send these jobs out to bid)
HENCE this scare tactic about Iran making a bomb (if true) is similar to WMD argument (whether by Israel or USA making the statement of fear)
DO NOT VOTE REPUBLICAN -- each candidate except Ron Paul has SAID "war it is"
My cousin, who I've previously mentioned "couldn't wait to get over there and bag some 'hajis' ", also wouldn't know what to do without a war to fight. He was upset because of all the special forces training he was given and the fear that we'd pull out before he got a chance to get over there and "put it to use" bagging his limit. His mindset NEEDS to kill someone to feel it's serving its purpose. He wants this "war" and will be sad to see it end.
When all of these "brave young haji killers" come home, you can expect them to vote. Not all of them will come home with a conflicted conscience. Some of them will miss their "glory days". Of course he'll live long enough for a few more wars for profit. He's made a "career" out of it.
I realize the administration needs an excuse to start another war, what with the election coming up and all and the need to appear "tough", however, sending in the proxy Israelis to start it then claim "protecting allies" is so chickenshit it stinks. Man up and lob the first shell or stay the hell out of it.
We don't care what Israel whats. We are not interested in fighting another war or supporting their attacks, invasions and occupation.
If Congress wants to keep their job they will stop instigating wars & spreading Israelis lies, misrepresentati ons and fabrication.
We are only interested in defending the 50 states not every country with USA corporate holding.
We say NO TO WAR, NO to selling weapons to brutal dictators, No to over throwing government of sovereign nations, NO to paying activist & rebels to instigate unrest & regime change, no to arming oppositions armies, & NO to FUNDING the military -industrial complex with military foreign aid. If a country wants to by defensive weapons system they should pay for it not the people of USA.
Since we already know money is more important that the voters its time to replace every member of Congress that supports WAR. But what's worse is our government supports war for the profit of the 99%. They don't care about innocent death of our children & the children, women & men of the nation attacked based on lies, misrepresentati on & fabrications, they only care about the money.
Do you RECALL that Israel attacked Lebanon, I believe? Wasn't it Just in Time -- to get out the vote for a Pro-AIPAC, pro-ISRAEL vote for USA president??? (And as I recall, Obama didn't weigh in on that at the time at all, or even since then.) It was a time they could do something scott-free.
Well, it's that time again. WHICH ONE OF OUR ETHICAL PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES will stand up to Israel NOW???
And: what have the Iranians done to the Israelis? For that matter, what have the Palestinians done to the Israelies?
Were the Palestinians reponsible for the Holocaust???? I never see this question being asked. It's as though the Holocaust occurred not in Europe, but right there in the little villages and vineyards and olive groves of the Palestinians.
Maybe I was Chosen to explode a Nuclear Bomb in the Middle East, where calmer heads always prevail. Maybe I've been chosed to poison the earth and water and air of the entire Middle East? Do the Israelies think they would NOT be mortally damaged? That they alone would escape this hell? Who would be killed??? And who is anyone to even consider such decisions?
AIPAC : A**holes from Israel Pushing America into Conflict
Seems pretty true to me.
Following the 1948 massacre of 240 unarmed men, women and children at Deir Yassin, twenty-eight prominent Jews, including Albert Einstein published a letter in the New York Times (12/2/48):
The public avowals of [Menachen] Begin’s party are no guide whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialis m, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character: from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future. … Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of ultra-nationali sm, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. … This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike) and misrepresentati on are means, and a “leader State” is the goal.
New Palestine Party
Visit of Menachem Begin and Aims of Political Movement Discussed
TO THE EDITOR OF THE NEW YORK TIMES:
Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our time is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing. chauvinist organization in Palestine.
The current visit of Menachen Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin's political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.
Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Begin's behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement.
The public avowals of Begin's party are no guide. whatever to its' actual character. Today their speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialis m. whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.
Attack on Arab Village
A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. this village. off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab hands who wanted to use the 'village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants - 240 men, women and children - and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin.
The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party.
Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of ultra-nationali sm, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destruction of free trade unions. In their stead they have rooosed corporate unions on the Italian Fascist model.
During the last years of spontaneous anti-British violence. the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing , and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute.
The people of the Freedom Party have had no part in the constructive achievements in Palestine. They have reclaimed no land, built no settlements, and only detracted from the Jewish defense activity. Their much-publicized immigration endeavors were minute, and devoted mainly to bringing in fascist compatriots.
Discrepancies Seen
The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentati on are means, and a "Leader state" is the goal.
In the light of the foregoing considerations, it is imperative that the truth about Mr. Begin and his movement be made known in this country. It is all the more tragic that the top leadership of American Zionism has refused to campaign against Begin's efforts, or even to expose to its own constituents the dangers to Israel from support to Begin.
The undersigned therefore take this means of publicly presenting a few salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of urging all concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism.
ISIDORE ABRAMOWITZ. HANNAH ABENDT, ABRAHAM BRICK, RABBI JESSURUH CARDOZO, ALBERT EINSTEIN, HERMAN EISEN, M.D., HAYIM FINEMAN, M. GALLEH, M.D., H.H. HARBIS, ZELIG S. HARRIS, SIDNEY HOOX, FRED KARUSH, BEURIA KAUFMAN, IRMA L. LlNDHEIM, NACHMAN MAJSEL, SEYMOUR MELMAN, MYER D. MENDELSON, M.D., HARRY M. ORLlNSKY, SAMUEL PITLlCK., FRITZ ROHRLlCH, LOUIS P. ROCKER, RUTH SAGER, ITZHAK SANHOWSKY, J. SCHORNBERG, SAMUEL SHUMAN, AL ZNGER, IRMAL WOLFE, STEFAN WOLF.
Reprint, New York, December 2, 1948.
Unilateral and unconditional American support for Zionism needs to end NOW!
Only a complete idiot would think that a limited strike could be successful because it neglects the Iranian response.
Thousand of American soldiers and sailors would die for Israel's hubris.
the draft, mentioned above, was taken off the board after seeing the protests of the vietnam years. the powers that be said no more drafts. smart move. now they can use an all volunteer army to do their bidding and not have the public react violently to their moves. like patton said, let the other son of a bitch die for his country. sad but true for our sons and daughters in the military....i believe all americans should be required to serve our country for a period of two years. i would be happy to train them to become teachers in poor neighborhoods. let the kids of the one percent know what poverty smells like....
In the attacks on Iraq and Syria they targetted normal electric generating Nukes, so I presume these also produce material for a plutonium bomb. Lastly, if Iran is attacked it is reasonable to suppose that any other Muslim country with the bomb might give them one.
Whenever the country wants to go to war a manditory open vote by all citizens over 18 is taken. Go to war yes or no. All those who vote yes are immediately drafted, no exceptions: the President, congressmen, infirm, wheelchair bound, 100 years old, insane, CEOs, pundents, billionares. No note from your doctor. You want the war you go. And you pay for it. A 50% war tax will be added onto their income tax.
The result is no more war -- unless we are attacked or actually threatened in which case those who previously voted no will vote yes and those who previously voted yes will vote no.
Just a thought.
Since we all get to pay for any war....ONE WAY OR ANOTHER...we should also have a vote in the matter.
Please send your suggestion to senator Sanders.
Khamenei said this: “The Zionist regime is a cancerous tumor and it will be removed.” While we don’t know how or why a mention of this element of the speech managed to get excised from the account in the Times, it’s a question worth pondering.
Looking back at it all, I am disgusted by the extent public opinion was shaped by the media to favor one side against the other. We all lose by unconditional support of Zionist Israel.
RSS feed for comments to this post