Rich writes: "It was an unequivocal win for Romney - or, more accurately, an utter stumble for Obama."
President Obama during Wednesday night's debate. (photo: Justin Sullivan/Getty Images)
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All he's really got as a difference from Romney is Gay rights and abortion or something that holds no threat to who is really in power enslaving us.
Some people say the Democrats are just like the Republicans, and in some ways that’s true, but when it comes to making legislation, over all, they try to protect the interests and lives of the 99% and all Americans. The Republicans platform is now, “Donate to our campaign and we’ll make you wealthier.” Their ideology is “The Ideology of Greed”.
Our only chance to heal our country is to have a true Democratic super majority, until the Republicans regain their sanity.
JCM: I have to agree even though I'm very critical of the Democratic PArty, once the party of the people, now as in bed with corporate lobbyists as Republicans. But as you note, there is a difference and it has to do with ideology and culture. The Republicans are locked into a hard-line, right wing, conspiracy-lade n-theory (re: Glenn Beck, Limbaugh) ideology. They appeal to fear and they fight by creating hard line divisions. They are locked in. The Democrats are a party with multiple interest groups that can still bring about change within the party. It is not a hard and fast destructive true-believer ideology but a continual struggle between party rank-and-file, groups and the hierarchy. In other words, the difference is that the grass roots of the Democrats offer a good tension and potential for change whereas the Republican grass roots is captured, locked in to the ideology. Self-interest for Republican voters is more in values (easy to fold into ideology) than pragmatism. Thus, Republicans are exclusive and defensive, clubbish and wary of differences. The difference between the two regarding change is Republicans rigidity vs Democrats and flexibility. Bottom line is that the Democratic Party can still be reformed from inside and outside. It can, through struggle, regain the honorable banner of the "Party of the People."
This disturbed Obama, and he appeared to "lose" the debate. He now should realize that he's in a real fight and the hand of friendship will probably only work when his foot is on Mitt's neck. And he can only get his foot there by announcing the serial lies of his opponent--as the lies they indeed are.
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I am sure it threw Obama when Romney flat out lied and said he did not have that big tax cut in his program. There are scads of clips where he is talking about it??
What the devil does he take us for??? He may be stupid, we are not. We KNOW he is lying.
Obama is too competitive to not come out swinging next time.
Besides, how can one debate with a person who changed everything he campaigned on all year, and was even stealing some of the Obama agenda?
OBAMA/BIDEN 2012
The alternative is disastrous for us.
I heard on the radio, on Friday, that they wondered if Romney had taken out some notes and placed them on the podium? I don't know what the rules are? He could have had the notes under his handkerchief. I don't think it is against the rules taking notes, while the opponent speaks.
I thought the President looked VERY tired. His eyes looked sunken. BUT....while Romney was just relaxing and practicing delivering all his lies.
.....The President WAS RUNNING THE COUNTRY...AND preparing for the debate.
As much as he is fighting to get the second term. HE HAS A DAY JOB!!!
As we know, he is very competitive, and Romney keeps touting that he will create 12 million new jobs.....Well DUH, many economist have said that regardless who is president They WILL be created.
OBAMA DOES NOT WANT ROMNEY TO CROW, AND TAKE CREDIT FOR SOMETHING HE HAS NOT DONE
When it is Obama who has PREPARED the soil....so to speak...for these jobs to grow.
I fear Romney: a plutocrat from a misogynistic cult with contempt for the non-wealthy. I would rather move to another country than go through more of this insanity.
Romney has no ethical gyroscope and appears to believe that telling continually different stories about the same fact sets doesn't rack up "mistrust" points.
He may be a great vulture capitalist but whatever his personal ethics may be, they are definitely "fluid." Reality yesterday is not the same as it is today and won't be the same as tomorrw.
The most bizarre element of the "debate" was his wired speech and interruption of others including refusal to allow the moderator to do his job. It was like somebody wound him up but didn't put a governor on his motor.
I wouldn't call Romney's performance so much "good" as Obama's missing in action. People report literally screaming at their televisions with counters Romneys, lies, half lies and g.d. lies.
It's apparently very easy for Mitt Romney to say now that he is all about jobs and the middle class, even the 47% he privately blew off, now at the last hour, his money rich, but vote poor hand, outstretched to the very people he was given the finger to most in the past.
Romney has kept the facts out of the debate and for a reason. He said that he is not going to be dictated by facts - now we know why.
How does that make Romney's positions any more specific, any better, any more EXIST AT ALL? The answer is IT DOESN'T!
Romney is still running on tax cuts, war, cutting off needy people, and smiling while he lies about it or is challenged saying "that's not me". Pretty simple, but yes, his drama and acting were unexpected Wednesday night, think Etch-A-Sketch.
This debate was like a Mafia thug going up to to Stephen Hawking and pushing his wheelchair over and then claiming to be a better physicist! HOGWASH!
It was embarrassing for Obama to get his ass kicked by a guy with multi-megabucks who has been studying how to attack and humiliate Barack Obama with the help of the Republican dirty-tricks experts for over a year - probably closer to 4 years. No one likes to see their leader, and by extension themselves getting put down or boxed in, it makes us mad. The people who were the angriest were the most staunch Obama supporters.
President Obama got beat up partially because he had nothing to punch at - or maybe too much to punch at considering Mitt Romney's flip-flops and resets. Who was to know we would witness a reset right there on live TV? Obama could have tried punching all night at Romney's many positions on many issues. He could have flailed more at Romney's not bound by facts positions ... what Ted Kennedy called - not pro-choice, multiple choice - back when Romney flip-flopped to Pro-Choice ... which he now repudiates, as with RomneyCare. Is that a surprise, did we really see a NEW MITT ROMNEY?
So then, how do we really know what Romney really thinks?
Look at Romney's past actions. Romney for decades has been all about breaking up the small businesses he says he cares most about and putting them under the ownership of BIG BUSINESS, or selling them and shipping them overseas to China - along with your job.
Something to think about, Part 2 -
It's apparently very easy for Mitt Romney to say now that he is all about jobs and the middle class, even the 47% he privately blew off, now at the last hour, his money rich, but vote poor hand, outstretched to the very people he was given the finger to most in the past.
Romney has kept the facts out of the debate and for a reason. He said that he is not going to be dictated by facts - now we know why.
How does that make Romney's positions any more specific, any better, any more EXIST AT ALL? The answer is IT DOESN'T!
Romney is still running on tax cuts, war, cutting off needy people, and smiling while he lies about it or is challenged saying "that's not me". Pretty simple, but yes, his drama and acting were unexpected Wednesday night, think Etch-A-Sketch.
This debate was like a Mafia thug going up to to Stephen Hawking and pushing his wheelchair over and then claiming to be a better physicist! HOGWASH!
My thoughts exactly. Whether there is method to anyone's madness, or sheer genius in shifting wind of the mediarati's latest horserace or expectation-cha nger... some of us (as today's collective society of human-type people) absorb and shares our 'likes' based on 140-character 'thoughts'. The news cycle itself, some might observe (as in this article) , has shortened its attention span accordingly, and tries to compete among the noise for peoples increasingly time. The 140 character news cycle. So... big media, those growing rich from the campaign horserace with all-you-can-eat money-burgers for the 'owners' party. The haves. (Yes, we all know wonderful philanthropists , but they're not trying to acquire the government through a charm takeover.)
Conspiracists might on one hand overestimate the ability of any party or campaign organization to entirely control the propaganda industry (say K street, Wall Street, Main Street, anywhere but Sesame Street if he-whose-name cannot be mentioned wins). For that matter, the Ryan/Romney/Rov e party has all signed a pledge and bowed to Ayn Rand, but I wonder if they've ever heard of the Ministry of Truth. Truth matters.
But it all boils down to exactly what is argued here. Chillax, reporters, and report. Do some work besides distilling sentiment from (paid-for) twitter trends.
Meanwhile, we follow the bouncing ball (now known as 'twitter boards" and trending) and "sing along" with the song of the day.
(Pick whose iPod has the best tunes? The new way to campaign.)
Above comment meant to cite a comment I agree with by B.R.U.X. but as now, I'm seeing the spellcheck is insistent on changing it to 'brut". Other quirks too, as I'm sure 'regulars' know - sometimes despite editing and care, one comes across like Romney... why, why, that's... inelegant! Disgraceful! Sorry. :-)
It was not at all one of the subjects on the agenda. It will be in the coming debates.
My blood has finally had time to return to normal from its near boiling point. I now fully understand the usefulness of the expression, "You make my blood boil."
I've written some revised dialogue for the debate; what I would have liked to hear from President Obama. I present it to everyone, and look forward to your comments.
The scene opens about 1/3 into the debate. It's President Obama's turn to start answering the question. He turns to Romney and says:
President Obama:"Are you going to continue to interrupt me while I'm speaking? I address you as Governor even though you are no longer a governor. I AM your President; I AM your Commander-in-Ch ief. Show me some respect, and respect the ground rules of this debate. For the remainder of this debate, please DO NOT interrupt me while I am speaking.
Now Mr. Lehrer, to answer your question..."
President Obama turns away from Mr. Romney, and addresses Mr. Lehrer directly, in a calm, clear voice.
The debate continues with a different tone in force.
Obama here seemed to maintain his refusal to go into combat with the aggressors as per his reactions to Republican attempts (mostly successful) to cripple his goals over the past 3+ years. It's probable this marks him as a wimp in many eyes of observing sports fans and may be one reason Romney is judged so highly after this event even though he was setting records with his lies. Again, truth really doesn't matter on the playing field. But sitting back and letting someone pound on you isn't a way to build trust in your leadership ability. And it isn't so much WHAT you say but that you get your punches in since it's simply a fight!
Amen to your comment! You've hit the nail. In the minds of 98% of viewers, the whole thing was a heavyweight championship fight in $5,000 suits, words instead of gloves, no 3-minute rounds. Despite Romney's serial lying, Obama did himself no favors with that "rope-a-dope", especially since there was no "knockout punch", not even a decent uppercut, after Romney talked himself silly. If Ali had just collapsed after all those rounds baiting Foreman, well...?
My own take is Obama is wasted by the trail, by his own doubts, the very possibility that he doesn't want it as much as we believe he does. Time will tell, but he better find that old fire soon, and bring it to the next fight.
I thought he looked like a mad man myself, with that creepy grin and wild eyes, while spewing atleast one lie for every minute he spoke. As I stated in other posts, if lying, being rude, and creepy constitutes a win, then Mitt won.
This was a strange case of incompetence by the Obama team. Anyone should have anticipated Romney would tell his favorite lies and been ready to pounce upon them.
Perhaps BHO is tired of being president? After all, he has secured his place in history for as long as the USA exists, maybe 50 years or less if Romney wins.
It was a very sad performance from the man that rolled over McCain and Palin like a hot roller over road kill.
Thank god there were reporters pointing the facts out. Just as John Kasich would like us all to believe that his great skills is causing the improved conditions in Ohio........
I think he totally forgets to mention that Obama's saving of the Auto industry saved and created a lot of jobs in HIS STATE TOO
I am sure he plans on thanking Obama by doing his utmost to steal thE election, just as it was stolen in 2004. Ohioans PLEASE KEEP A SHARP EYE ON HIM.
But if he mentions Simpson-Bowles one more time, I am going to lose it.
I sincerely think that Obama figured that Mitt was such a dunderhead he would bury himself, as he has been doing on his campaign. Actually all the lies are what he can use against Mitt now. Oh heck Mitt even fired big bird LOL!!
Too Bad they are not getting news to the Whole Public about Monsanto and Mitt, Bain laying off 3200 people in MidWest. Both are news but then even RSN types seem not to want to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth......
I think we give the american public too much credit.
They do love a good showman.
He can politely state all the 'facts' he wants and it will not mean a thing to most voters, especially those supposed 'Undecided Voters.'
It matters how one present 'fact's in public forums.
Its time to ACT like and BE a Leader, which includes Obama and the Democrats putting themselves out there with 'spine' above the Poll-Fretting to STAND FOR THINGS (in simple terms) that Americans can get their hearts and minds around while displaying the LEADERSHIP qualities that compel people to follow their LEAD despite polls, 24 hour news psychols and the talkinghead blather.
For one--- WHY NOT openly begin the kind of dialogue that questions the entire 30 year long relentless, knee-jerk, off the cuff, corporate-servi ng quest for evermore SMALLER GOVERNMENT..? After all, there is now a 30 year ling history of all the inglorious failure of it with piles of statistics and realities to point to and boot strap to it which might give pause to at least a few million Americans who are suffering from the direct results of of it-- many if not most, while unable to connect the dots to the state of economic affairs drastically affecting their lives as a result of less and less government of OURSELVES.
Obama did begin feebly on debate night to talk of his belief in Government.
I guess he has class and the rest of America needs more violence...too bad.
I guess OB is joining with us who believe in him and just letting the GOP continue to take the rope...as much as they need.
Kind of like the Clint Eastwood Movie...Hang em High.
Romney saying that you put your 'money where your heart is'
is NOT a sound bite????
Ahem - Cayman Islands, Switzerland???
Great! You should forward that to the Obama campaign. Suggest a new ad, I can see a great commercial:
Romney: "You put your money where your heart is."
Fade into Switzerland, Caymen Islands and China. He had invested in Chinese companies until two days before declaring for the Presidency. Shows how clever, cynical and opportunistic he is.
Then back to Romney quoting his rail against China and his faux anger about Chinese cheating. Then voice over: Mr. Romney, if yu are so mad at Chinese cheating will you turn over the profits you made from investing in Chinese companies to help reduce the deficit?"
After the debate a totally destroyed Chris Matthews lamented, Obama always says that he doesn't watch the cable networks, then he thundered.... HE SHOULD.... At least not a bad idea if "his people" do. They might learn a little about what is REALLY important to us.
I took your advice and sent it. I doubt anyone in thses campaigns pay attention to any ideas from the grass roots. I hope I'm worng as Obama needs to start shredding Romney for his opportunistic hypocrisy and unabasheded distaste for telling the truth. What he did Wednesday telegraphes very clearly that he is not a moral man. Moral people cannot just change their positions for convenience. And certainly, moral people do not consider lying as a useful tool.
BTW, against all odds, should this idea be taken seriously by the campaign, I will inform them that its genesis was DonThomann's as well as your suggestion. I've always believed that a lot of great ideas are out and about with the people and credentials do not automatically correlate with good ideas. WHo knows? Maybe this time.
Prof. Obama simply could not shed with stand behind the podium lecture to his law students. It left me with the question as to whether or not he really knows enough and has completely relied on "experts and spin doctors" to shape his policies. Notwithstanding the fact that is has been the goal of the Republicans to further wreck the country just to get rid of the black guy.
Romney did better than expected but if you listen carefully it contained the real agenda----a complete take-over of the country by the owners of capital. No surprise there.
Few Americans are listening. Substance and knowledge of economic or foreign policy issues is fairly low down on the scale. Style matters. Particularly a polished, aggressive style.
The middle class "white" vote is still the overwhelming focus of presidential candidates. The Republican candidate(whoev er that may be in any given election)-start s at an advantage-unles s he lacks personal charisma(McCain actually falls into this category-respec ted but not likeable.)
So here comes Romney(a media golden boy)attacking and swinging for the fence.
And there falls Obama-not swinging, as the fastballs zing by-(just looking for a walk when a homer, or at least a couple of doubles were needed.)
I am a radical pragmatist-mean ing I will always vote Democrat since the 3rd party "protest" vote is too wasteful.
However...Obama 's safe approach was borderline giving up. If he exerted any energy at all-I did not notice. He forgot its all about effort and style-words don't really matter...just the delivery.
What they got was a president who took the entire defense department bureaucracy of a previously discredited administration into his administration inclusive of the Generals, Secretary of Defense and all the rest ( this has never happened before); then gave us more phony war. While president Obama was receiving the “Nobel Peace prize” he simultaneously and successfully defended the architect of torture in a San Francisco federal court. In addition, he sidetracked attempts of the ACLU to remove the illegal overseas prisons and never gave even a feeble attempt to close the infamous Guantanamo prison. He has never tried to return our revered habeas corpus or remove the immoral, illegal, Patriot Act. As this is written he has placed ill advised military intimidation and economic sanctions over innocent Iranian people and continues to fund the illegal Zionist settlers three generations removed from WWII, (many from New York) in the Middle East. Recently Obama signed a law (National Defense Authorization Act) making the “Patriot Act” permanent and the USA is now officially a military/police state with the habeas corpus long gone.
So Obama didn't do well in this first debate. Neither did Ronald Reagan in the first debate of 1984; it was, in fact, such a debacle for him that his people were left scrambling to ward off the impression that he'd gone senile. Yet Reagan won that November, by a landslide.
I would never, ever figure Romney on a par with this great man.
Yep, unfortunately you got too much material ..... BUT do remember that we have a VERY COMPETITIVE PRESIDENT. He will surely not leave it there.
For the intelligent, we did not watch or have a different perspective on winning.
Moderator was horrendous as expected. He has the personality of a twig, and looked three sheets to the wind. He could not keep the Debate on track, nor did he curtail the megameth mittens probably did not want to. Sorry...we were the losers because we read to much into nothing.
I think he let the queer ramble on for a lot of reasons. First he looked like a drug addict, second he was lying all night, third he reminded me of a know it all grade school-er that never knows anything except what his insufferable parents taught.
The Moderator was a big problem and looked shitfaced probably was. Did not take control, or keep mittens in line.
Mitt had not facts....OB gave his, gave them again in public many times, and said what he had to without sounding like a bore, angry, or GOP. He was calm, he made his points and no he did not scream, shoot a gun to entertain the masses. I guess he appealed to the intelligent people in the USA not the morons who love violence, gossip columns or whatever ramblings night time reality show watchers need.
I shall wait for the next debate, I believe Mitt left himself open enough for turkey season.... Small game preseason is Thursday, if I remember to watch.
I do not need to watch, I can read, research, ask questions. I am not a sheeple, reality show watcher or entertained by violence or stupidity.
I hope Biden's good nature is front at center and he allows Ryan to be the Ass he is. I believe Ryan will also come out for blood, and have as much useful information as mittens.
Debates .... I never saw them as a win, I saw them as showing me the type of person by tells.
This disturbed Obama, and he appeared to "lose" the debate. He now should realize that he's in a real fight and the hand of friendship will probably only work when his foot is on Mitt's neck.
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